Armed Portland ANTIFA Assault Driver

[HCM]

https://twitter.com/weoutherenet/status/1390445424708780032?s=20

[Ed L]

Here is a more complete video of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER5xYn1wRWI&t=41s

[SouthNarc]

Gangs of violent militants armed with rifles conducting vehicle interdictions.

This is shit that happens in Africa.

Anyone that thinks this is okay or a "peaceful protest" or a demonstration of 2A rights by the other side has jumped the fucking shark.

[Ed L]

Here is another video from Portland with some protesters marching down both sides of the street with cars leading their column. They treat any people caught in the street who try to drive slowly around them as though those people are the enemy. They smash their windows, flatten their tires, surround the cars with guns pointing at them and demand that they turn their car off and exit the vehicle. If you look at the video at just about the 50 second point you hear what sounds like a gunshot and see what appears to be the empty case from a pistol round eject into the gutter. I could be wrong about the gunshot and ejected case.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edv61e2T3lE&t=1s

[jh9]

Here is another video from Portland with some protesters marching down both sides of the street with cars leading their column. They treat any people caught in the street who try to drive slowly around them as though those people are the enemy. They smash their windows, flatten their tires, surround the cars with guns pointing at them and demand that they turn their car off and exit the vehicle. If you look at the video at just about the 50 second point you hear what sounds like a gunshot and see what appears to be the empty case from a pistol round eject into the gutter. I could be wrong about the gunshot and ejected case.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edv61e2T3lE&t=1s

So, a carjacking.

Well. Alleged carjacking. The camera man got scared and we don't see where the van slashed its own tires and shattered its own windshield. All we see is the nice young man at the end escorting the driver to safety after his traumatic experience. :rolleyes:

[HCountyGuy]

Here is a more complete video of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER5xYn1wRWI&t=41s

Stupidity in spades.

Dude should’ve stayed in the truck.

[Zincwarrior]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Iir9LDSl7qI/R4uwBilxpjI/AAAAAAAAKTY/uNPXyhmVRsA/s400/NEVER+GET+OUT+2.jpg

[blues]

Those mostly peaceful marching assclowns need to be squashed like the bugs they are.

The driver should have quit while he was ahead and gotten the hell out of Dodge.

Some folks can't put their egos in check.

[WobblyPossum]

Gangs of violent militants armed with rifles conducting vehicle interdictions.

This is shit that happens in Africa.

Anyone that thinks this is okay or a "peaceful protest" or a demonstration of 2A rights by the other side has jumped the fucking shark.

This. What the hell is happening in our country right now? How is this acceptable?

I’ve just started reading Days of Rage and am getting a weird sense of dejavu.

[Borderland]

I took my Mini-14 to the range yesterday for a function check. More magazines are on the way.

The cities are being slowly taken over by armed protesters and the police won't/can't intervene until a full blown fire fight starts, and maybe not even then.

[Zincwarrior]

On a tactical/legal basis, it appears the driver did several things poorly.

*Drove a vehicle into a march, blocking the marchers.
*Drove a vehicle into a march where the marchers were armed.
*Proceeded to have a "discussion" with the marchers.
*Proceeded to drive the vehicle through the march.
*Proceeded to then stop and get out of the vehicle to have a discussion with one of the marchers in a face to face manner.

Did I get them all or did I miss anything? I thought this was basic 101 tactics of what not to do from all the way back to 1992?

[JRB]

On a tactical/legal basis, it appears the driver did several things poorly.

*Drove a vehicle into a march, blocking the marchers.
*Drove a vehicle into a march where the marchers were armed.
*Proceeded to have a "discussion" with the marchers.
*Proceeded to drive the vehicle through the march.
*Proceeded to then stop and get out of the vehicle to have a discussion with one of the marchers in a face to face manner.

Did I get them all or did I miss anything? I thought this was basic 101 tactics of what not to do from all the way back to 1992?

Absolutely. But pissing off old guys enough to make stupid mistakes for the camera is precisely the intended goal of a 'march' like that.

What I fear is one of these days they'll piss off the wrong old guy, one that isn't going to make those tactical mistakes, and instead is going to stack a bunch of these brats like firewood because they've simply fucking had it with this bullshit.

[blues]

Absolutely. But pissing off old guys enough to make stupid mistakes for the camera is precisely the intended goal of a 'march' like that.

What I fear is one of these days they'll piss off the wrong old guy, one that isn't going to make those tactical mistakes, and instead is going to stack a bunch of these brats like firewood because they've simply fucking had it with this bullshit.

https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/gran-torino-2008/EB20081217REVIEWS812179989AR.jpg

"That would be tragic."

[HCM]

On a tactical/legal basis, it appears the driver did several things poorly.

*Drove a vehicle into a march, blocking the marchers.
*Drove a vehicle into a march where the marchers were armed.
*Proceeded to have a "discussion" with the marchers.
*Proceeded to drive the vehicle through the march.
*Proceeded to then stop and get out of the vehicle to have a discussion with one of the marchers in a face to face manner.

Did I get them all or did I miss anything? I thought this was basic 101 tactics of what not to do from all the way back to 1992?

You got the first thing 100% wrong. What ever other errors the driver made, the marchers were illegally blocking a public street. The marches were out looking for a confrontation and they found it so everything that resulted from that is on them.

[JRB]

You got the first thing 100% wrong. What ever other errors the driver made, the marchers were illegally blocking a public street. The marches were out looking for a confrontation and they found it so everything that resulted from that is on them.

If only the Police, the DA's, and AUSA's all saw it that way.

[Zincwarrior]

You got the first thing 100% wrong. What ever other errors the driver made, the marchers were illegally blocking a public street. The marches were out looking for a confrontation and they found it so everything that resulted from that is on them.

As Dad would have said, "there's right, then there's dead right."
Whether or not it is legal it is a crowd in the street. Don't voluntarily put your vehicle into a crowd in the street or in front blocking a crowd marching down the street. Rodney King taught everyone that.

[Borderland]

If only the Police, the DA's, and AUSA's all saw it that way.

That would be my point also. Nobody see's anything wrong with terrorizing a neighborhood by shutting down a public street and intimidating drivers with weapons. I would take exception to that just like someone blocking my access to any public street thru force/intimidation unless it was a legal LE/emergency. I'm not a confrontational person but in the light of denying me the right to use a public street in my neighborhood, that goes against my idea of how things should work.

Here's another example. I used to live in N. Seattle. Seattle has always had a gang problem. Several times I noticed gangbangers would block both lanes of traffic to discuss business and to make a point to anyone who wanted to use the street that it was their turf. The same thing is going on here. My street, if you want to use it, come and take it. Is it worth shooting someone or being shot to get it. Probably not, but I think that's where we are, unfortunately. Occupation by force and intimidation.

Some people are just going to push their agenda onto everyone else until they have an incentive to stop.

[fixer]

On a tactical/legal basis, it appears the driver did several things poorly.

*Drove a vehicle into a march, blocking the marchers.

Did I get them all or did I miss anything?


I bolded and underlined what you missed.

[Zincwarrior]

I bolded and underlined what you missed.

Second # 23 (this is the pick up truck video, just to clarify).

[GyroF-16]

*Drove a vehicle into a march, blocking the marchers.

I bolded and underlined what you missed.



Did he? Or was he trying to make use of a public thoroughfare? The kind designed for use by automobiles.
So, was he blocking the marchers, or were the marchers blocking him?

I’m not saying he responded well to the situation. After “negotiating” with the protesters, and being allowed to pass through, he should’ve continued on his way. And perhaps called the police to report being threatened by several young men with long guns while trying to drive down his neighborhood street.

[jh9]

As Dad would have said, "there's right, then there's dead right."
Whether or not it is legal it is a crowd in the street. Don't voluntarily put your vehicle into a crowd in the street or in front blocking a crowd marching down the street. Rodney King taught everyone that.

The problem with that is when you involuntarily put your vehicle into a crowd. Some of these aren't visible until you take a wrong turn, and then either one of the mob ends up Garrett Foster'd or you end up like the guy in the 2nd video. That's your best case scenario. It goes downhill from there. Dude with a Glock or even a bagged Rattler vs a half dozen people with rifles and armor? Those are not odds I'd take to Vegas.

The mob should own the legal repercussions of any confrontation based on the fact that they're the instigators but in places like Portland that may well not happen. We'll see how successfully they export that to other, similar events. Though I can't help but note that the JFPK incident in this thread and even the "may day" march we had downtown last week look like they are have considerably smaller crowds. I wonder if the broader attendance has fizzled and what's left is just the core instigators.

[Clusterfrack]

Patrick Kimmons. Let’s say his name. He was a gang member with a history of violence, who had just shot two (black) people. As a Portland resident, I would like to thank the brave LEOs who had to shoot him. Portland is a safer place because of them.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/demonstrators-honor-gang-member-who-shot-two-and-pulled-gun-on-police/

[GyroF-16]

The problem with that is when you involuntarily put your vehicle into a crowd. Some of these aren't visible until you take a wrong turn, and then either one of the mob ends up Garrett Foster'd or you end up like the guy in the 2nd video. That's your best case scenario. It goes downhill from there. Dude with a Glock or even a bagged Rattler vs a half dozen people with rifles and armor? Those are not odds I'd take to Vegas.

The mob should own the legal repercussions of any confrontation based on the fact that they're the instigators but in places like Portland that may well not happen. We'll see how successfully they export that to other, similar events. Though I can't help but note that the JFPK incident in this thread and even the "may day" march we had downtown last week look like they are have considerably smaller crowds. I wonder if the broader attendance has fizzled and what's left is just the core instigators.

+1
Maybe it’s my “reasonable man” bias, but I have difficulty imagining that many of these drivers DELIBERATELY put their vehicles in the midst of a mob.

[Lex Luthier]

From what I understand, this is a weekly protest; I am making a big assumption that it is in some way scheduled and there is some basic idea of the timetable.

If there were official desire to curtail this sort of gathering, it'd be easy to pull off. Surveillance and interdiction of the participants, likewise. Seems to me that maybe the backing org for the protesters is getting sloppy or overconfident.

[Zincwarrior]

The problem with that is when you involuntarily put your vehicle into a crowd. Some of these aren't visible until you take a wrong turn, and then either one of the mob ends up Garrett Foster'd or you end up like the guy in the 2nd video. That's your best case scenario. It goes downhill from there. Dude with a Glock or even a bagged Rattler vs a half dozen people with rifles and armor? Those are not odds I'd take to Vegas.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/73121206/hes-right-you-know.jpg

[Lex Luthier]

Patrick Kimmons. Let’s say his name. He was a gang member with a history of violence, who had just shot two (black) people. As a Portland resident, I would like to thank the brave LEOs who had to shoot him. Portland is a safer place because of them.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/demonstrators-honor-gang-member-who-shot-two-and-pulled-gun-on-police/

I think it would be best if we re-named them all "Horst Wessel" or "Pavlik Morozov". They're all the same mythical martyr.

[HCM]

From what I understand, this is a weekly protest; I am making a big assumption that it is in some way scheduled and there is some basic idea of the timetable.

If there were official desire to curtail this sort of gathering, it'd be easy to pull off. Surveillance and interdiction of the participants, likewise. Seems to me that maybe the backing org for the protesters is getting sloppy or overconfident.

The people of Portland are getting what they voted for.

It doesn’t matter if it’s scheduled or not.

There are reason why there are requirements for permits, barricades etc. for demonstrations aand marches on public streets. First they belong to everyone and no one particular group has the right to schedule denying other people access unilaterally.

They can unilaterally schedule themselves to go take a crap at the entrance to your driveway the same time and day every week but that doesn’t make it legal or ethically correct.

Ceding these people the idea that they are in anyway justified in unilaterally scheduling when other citizens can pass down a public street is a big f***ing deal.

[wvincent]

I'm gonna try and say this without offending anyone. While the acts of armed intimidation and provocation are gross to start with, I think some of these ccw's aren't doing themselves any favors.

In the public venue, (of course, events concerning home and hearth are different rules). I think Pat Mac's book "Sentinel: Become the Agent in Charge of Your Own Protection" https://www.amazon.com/Sentinel-Become-Charge-Protection-Detail-ebook/dp/B079J4R8X1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=M6DYSMPKGXQ5&dchild=1&keywords=pat+macnamera+book&qid=1620405243&sprefix=pat+mac%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-1does a really good job of laying a plan for keeping you and your family safe. Getting you and yours off the "X", to a safe place needs to be your mission goal, not salvaging your ego or trying to "win" the shouting match. Dude in the red pick up seemed to have negotiated "safe passage", yet felt the need to stop, and unmount the vehicle. To what end? Bruised ego needed salving? I dunno, I can't read his mind. Myself, if i can back or turn out of that confrontation, that's my plan. I'm not gonna plant my feet and say "Oh no, not today" over a piece of road or sidewalk. Call me a pussy or a coward if you want, I really don't care. I always figure I win every fight that I don't participate in.

[HCM]

I'm gonna try and say this without offending anyone. While the acts of armed intimidation and provocation are gross to start with, I think some of these ccw's aren't doing themselves any favors.

In the public venue, (of course, events concerning home and hearth are different rules). I think Pat Mac's book "Sentinel: Become the Agent in Charge of Your Own Protection" https://www.amazon.com/Sentinel-Become-Charge-Protection-Detail-ebook/dp/B079J4R8X1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=M6DYSMPKGXQ5&dchild=1&keywords=pat+macnamera+book&qid=1620405243&sprefix=pat+mac%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-1does a really good job of laying a plan for keeping you and your family safe. Getting you and yours off the "X", to a safe place needs to be your mission goal, not salvaging your ego or trying to "win" the shouting match. Dude in the red pick up seemed to have negotiated "safe passage", yet felt the need to stop, and unmount the vehicle. To what end? Bruised ego needed salving? I dunno, I can't read his mind. Myself, if i can back or turn out of that confrontation, that's my plan. I'm not gonna plant my feet and say "Oh no, not today" over a piece of road or sidewalk. Call me a pussy or a coward if you want, I really don't care. I always figure I win every fight that I don't participate in.

I agree. The guy in the pick up was right initially but is a knuckle head for stopping and getting out once they let him through and he could have been clear of the situation.

[Lex Luthier]

The people of Portland are getting what they voted for.

It doesn’t matter if it’s scheduled or not.

There are reason why there are requirements for permits, barricades etc. for demonstrations aand marches on public streets. First they belong to everyone and no one particular group has the right to schedule denying other people access unilaterally.

They can unilaterally schedule themselves to go take a crap at the entrance to your driveway the same time and day every week but that doesn’t make it legal or ethically correct.

Ceding these people the idea that they are in anyway justified in unilaterally scheduling when other citizens can pass down a public street is a big f***ing deal.

You misunderstand me, HCM; perhaps I diluted my own point or wasn't clear.
It seems obvious that the official authority is uninterested in curtailing this sort of behavior. (Maybe they benefit from the escalating provocations, but that's another tangent)

An interested couple of say, citizens could easily surveil & reveal the identities of these folks, which seems to be the last thing they want.
I ought not to say anything else mis-construable in an open forum, I think.

[Borderland]

Did he? Or was he trying to make use of a public thoroughfare? The kind designed for use by automobiles.
So, was he blocking the marchers, or were the marchers blocking him?

I’m not saying he responded well to the situation. After “negotiating” with the protesters, and being allowed to pass through, he should’ve continued on his way. And perhaps called the police to report being threatened by several young men with long guns while trying to drive down his neighborhood street.

That's the point of these marches. To deny access and intimidate people who won't recognize their agenda. If they were interested in other peoples rights they would hold the demonstrations in a public park. Portland has 279 parks, more than most cities of the same size. What happens when people just start driving thru these illegal demonstrations without stopping. More than likely they end up being shot. How's that for being able to use a public street for it's intended purpose? But then, it's Portland. I know people who live there. It isn't Kansas City or even Denver.

[Hot Sauce]

Here is a more complete video of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER5xYn1wRWI&t=41s
Dude did nothing wrong driving down a public street not knowing it was gonna be blocked by march.

That's pretty much the only thing he didn't do wrong.

Not absolving the marchers nor PPD for doing nothing about them, but the guy reacted like a complete fucking idiot.

It looks to me more like he pulled that pistol out to flash it to the crowd and intimidate them out of the way, rather than to actually defend himself.

Well guess what, they're not intimidated. Now what?

[Greg]

There needs to be a fleet of dudes who keep the snowplows on their pickups year round.

Seeing all the fat, man-bun sporting neckbeards sailing through the air would get me to contribute to their legal defense fund.

[SouthNarc]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.

[GyroF-16]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.

I fully agree with you, and support your concern. I’m appalled to see this happening anywhere in America.

Apparently, this is the Portland that Portlanders accept now. Maybe as it plays out, they’ll change their minds. Or vote with their feet.

[1slow]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.


THIS !!!

[MickAK]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.

We're shifting to a parallel society where this kind of behavior is tolerated in some areas given certain conditions are met, usually the death of a minority at the hands of the police but really anything that meets the shifting criteria of 'your mind is telling you this is wrong, but let us tell you why it's OK'.

If we can sort out the banking issue I'm ok with it. Unfortunately I still have to work in the other society on occasion, but that's my choice. It's preferable to Balkanization or open civil conflict.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Do you intimidate a group of folks with body armor, ARs and a cause? Maybe in an Abrams. The claims of intimidation we see in the DGU discussions are usually economically motivated criminals. As our LEOs state, many crazies ignore or are in 'bring it on' mode. Kyle Ritthenhouse didn't intimidate folks as has been pointed out.

Gramps here or Pink Panks Baldy are going to lead to a wave of gunfire. Then watch the moral panic for gun bans.

The inability of city governments to get control of their streets is inexcusable.

[wvincent]

Do you intimidate a group of folks with body armor, ARs and a cause? Maybe in an Abrams. The claims of intimidation we see in the DGU discussions are usually economically motivated criminals. As our LEOs state, many crazies ignore or are in 'bring it on' mode. Kyle Ritthenhouse didn't intimidate folks as has been pointed out.

Gramps here or Pink Panks Baldy are going to lead to a wave of gunfire. Then watch the moral panic for gun bans.

The unwillingness of city governments to get control of their streets is inexcusable.

I don't normally play the FIFY game, but I did in this case.

This current situation didn't develop overnight, and neither will the cure.
Although we might win a street skirmish or two, the true battle will have to be won at the ballot box.
I look at the recall movement for Newsome in CA as just the beginning of something larger that will/should occur.

I'm sure a lot of Portlandiers thought rioting at the Federal Courthouse was kinda ok, mainly cause TRUMP.
Now that the election is over, and they may not be able to traverse their city in safety, they may be getting close to "ENOUGH!"

[SouthNarc]

Do you intimidate a group of folks with body armor, ARs and a cause? Maybe in an Abrams. The claims of intimidation we see in the DGU discussions are usually economically motivated criminals. As our LEOs state, many crazies ignore or are in 'bring it on' mode. Kyle Ritthenhouse didn't intimidate folks as has been pointed out.

Gramps here or Pink Panks Baldy are going to lead to a wave of gunfire. Then watch the moral panic for gun bans.

The inability of city governments to get control of their streets is inexcusable.

Your point is well made Glenn. I don't believe that a single "average" gun owner could use a handgun to intimidate these groups.

[Zincwarrior]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.

Open carry of firearms is legal in many states. Texas is on the cusp of doing away with the need for licensing the carry of firearms.

[GyroF-16]

Open carry of firearms is legal in many states. Texas is on the cusp of doing away with the need for licensing the carry of firearms.

I think you’re deliberately missing the point, Zincwarrior.

What SouthNarc said was “ Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms...”

The bolded parts are not protected rights in any state. The legality of carrying firearms is not relevant to the objectionable part of this behavior.

[SouthNarc]

Open carry of firearms is legal in many states. Texas is on the cusp of doing away with the need for licensing the carry of firearms.


I'm aware that it's legal to openly carry/hold a gun in many states. I have zero problems with anyone doing that until you're blocking my vehicle, shouting obscenities, unslinging your rifle, mounting it on your shoulder and approaching me in a low ready.

[Zincwarrior]

I'm aware that it's legal to openly carry/hold a gun in many states. I have zero problems with anyone doing that until you're blocking my vehicle, shouting obscenities, unslinging your rifle, mounting it on your shoulder and approaching me in a low ready.

Homeboy pulled his pistol first. If you pull it you better be ready for what happens when you pull it, and pulling it because some people are walking down the street sounds a lot more like a crime on your part, and something engendering a legal self defense claim by those walking.

I've seen far bigger crowds wandering around bar crawling in any college town. Usually when someone pulls a gun on them they are the ones wanted by the police.

Perspective is important in any potential lethal use scenario.


Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearmsMMM where have I heard this before? :rolleyes:

[wvincent]

I'm aware that it's legal to openly carry/hold a gun in many states. I have zero problems with anyone doing that until you're blocking my vehicle, shouting obscenities, unslinging your rifle, mounting it on your shoulder and approaching me in a low ready.

You left out the part with all the cell phone cameras pointed at you, ready to record you attempting to gun down the "mostly peaceful" freedom marchers who had stopped to engage you in pleasant conversation. Their edited version will be on Twitter and the MSM before you get done with the local PD.

Any other media that shows you in a favorable light may never see the light of day.
It's a fucking trap, and their getting pretty good at it.

[blues]

I would have loved to see the old meat eaters of the NYPD TPF let loose on these fucking douchenozzles.

If they come to my little holler, I'll be makin' like a rooftop Korean.

[JRB]

Homeboy pulled his pistol first. If you pull it you better be ready for what happens when you pull it, and pulling it because some people are walking down the street sounds a lot more like a crime on your part, and something engendering a legal self defense claim by those walking.

I've seen far bigger crowds wandering around bar crawling in any college town. Usually when someone pulls a gun on them they are the ones wanted by the police.

Perspective is important in any potential lethal use scenario.

MMM where have I heard this before? :rolleyes:

Not sure what video you watched, but I see at least one of those 'peaceful protestors' shoulder his rifle in low ready in a firing stance squared up on that old guy before he pulled his pistol out.
I'm not excusing the stupidity of old pistol guy prior to that, but this wasn't a crowd of college bar crawlers, these were guys with rifles and openly worn plate carriers. Comparing the two is preposterous.

[Zincwarrior]

Korean...meat eaters...forced to eat salad for lunch...

mmm...Korean barbecue...now so hungry!

To wvincent's point though, isn't that exactly what they are hoping for?

[JRB]

Korean...meat eaters...forced to eat salad for lunch...

mmm...Korean barbecue...now so hungry!

To wvincent's point though, isn't that exactly what they are hoping for?

Yes, exactly as I mentioned in post 12 of this thread.
And again, what I fear is what comes after they catch the wrong old guy on the wrong day, and *really* get something to tweet about. None of that ends well for anyone, let alone us, in the current admin/political/legal structure of this country.

[blues]

Korean...meat eaters...forced to eat salad for lunch...

mmm...Korean barbecue...now so hungry!


I really wonder about you sometimes.

[wvincent]

Not sure what video you watched, but I see at least one of those 'peaceful protestors' shoulder his rifle in low ready in a firing stance squared up on that old guy before he pulled his pistol out.
I'm not excusing the stupidity of old pistol guy prior to that, but this wasn't a crowd of college bar crawlers, these were guys with rifles and openly worn plate carriers. Comparing the two is preposterous.

I don't know about you, but if some douche nozzle is squared up on me at the low ready, I'm not drawing in most circumstances, rather, I will look for my moment. Not gonna give him the excuse to vent me cause I drew.

Seems to be a lot of folks thinking their pistol is a magic talisman that will make all the bad shit go away.
Appears a lot of folks could stand some training.

[SouthNarc]

Not sure what video you watched, but I see at least one of those 'peaceful protestors' shoulder his rifle in low ready in a firing stance squared up on that old guy before he pulled his pistol out.
I'm not excusing the stupidity of old pistol guy prior to that, but this wasn't a crowd of college bar crawlers, these were guys with rifles and openly worn plate carriers. Comparing the two is preposterous.

Thanks. That's exactly what I saw too. The person in the black sweatshirt and the green web gear moves forward and mounts the gun first.

[wvincent]

Korean...meat eaters...forced to eat salad for lunch...

mmm...Korean barbecue...now so hungry!

To wvincent's point though, isn't that exactly what they are hoping for?

Korean barbecue?
I just ate lasagna, now I'm convincing myself to eat again.
Prick:D

[JRB]

I don't know about you, but if some douche nozzle is squared up on me at the low ready, I'm not drawing in most circumstances, rather, I will look for my moment. Not gonna give him the excuse to vent me cause I drew.

Seems to be a lot of folks thinking their pistol is a magic talisman that will make all the bad shit go away.
Appears a lot of folks could stand some training.

I didn't mean to imply that drawing a weapon was sound tactics at the moment - only that he wasn't the first person to 'draw', as Zinc quite deliberately suggested.

While we all seem to agree that Pistol Dude had reasonable cause to be upset, the video is basically everything you can do wrong in sequence up to and including getting laid out and losing control of his weapon.

[jh9]

I'm aware that it's legal to openly carry/hold a gun in many states. I have zero problems with anyone doing that until you're blocking my vehicle, shouting obscenities, unslinging your rifle, mounting it on your shoulder and approaching me in a low ready.

Is a jury of your peers in Portland going to draw the line in the same place? Before the very first shot is fired, that is. Assuming, as mentioned, that curated video footage doesn't make it onto youtube tainting the jury pool before you have a chance to mount a PR defense.

I'm not aware of any state that limits open carry to people that are not "shouting obscenities, unslinging your rifle, mounting it on your shoulder and approaching me in a low ready." We've seen a broad range of OC in a broad range of states and localities over the past several years and if there's been an arrest and conviction I'm not aware of it. The line for when it stops being open carry and starts being something like brandishing or menacing is not well defined (AFAIK) and now we're seeing more people using that to their advantage.

Glenn is right. I've been saying for awhile that this is going to end in a bloodbath and that will absolutely guarantee AWB2.

[wvincent]

I didn't mean to imply that drawing a weapon was sound tactics at the moment - only that he wasn't the first person to 'draw', as Zinc quite deliberately suggested.

While we all seem to agree that Pistol Dude had reasonable cause to be upset, the video is basically everything you can do wrong in sequence up to and including getting laid out and losing control of his weapon.

Oh, I know you didn't.
I just knew deep in my heart of hearts you were dying to hear my perspective, Bwaaah.:rolleyes:

Or not.

[Borderland]

I would have loved to see the old meat eaters of the NYPD TPF let loose on these fucking douchenozzles.

If they come to my little holler, I'll be makin' like a rooftop Korean.

You don't need to get on your roof. A polite get off of my property with a carbine to back it up should work. They've already tried to intimidate some folks around here on private property and found out they don't call 911. Some of them don't even know what private property is but people get pretty annoyed when they are asked to leave and don't. Anyone on my private road is fair game if they don't live in this community. I know all of them except a few.

[Zincwarrior]

I didn't mean to imply that drawing a weapon was sound tactics at the moment - only that he wasn't the first person to 'draw', as Zinc quite deliberately suggested.

While we all seem to agree that Pistol Dude had reasonable cause to be upset, the video is basically everything you can do wrong in sequence up to and including getting laid out and losing control of his weapon.

While I could be wrong (but not about barbecue) I thought he had the pistol out before rifle guy (or someone) starts shouting. Let me see if I can find it.

EDIT: at 18 seconds I hear "he's got a gun" and then all the movement starts and camera pans. Again I could be wrong though as tinnitis messes with my hearing.

Also at 29 seconds they are saying to put his gun down.

[blues]

You don't need to get on your roof. A polite get off of my property with a carbine to back it up should work. They've already tried to intimidate some folks around here on private property and found out they don't call 911. Some of them don't even know what private property is but people get pretty annoyed when they are asked to leave and don't. Anyone on my private road is fair game if they don't live in this community. I know all of them except a few.

I prefer to dominate the high ground.

[JRB]

While I could be wrong (but not about barbecue) I thought he had the pistol out before rifle guy (or someone) starts shouting. Let me see if I can find it.

It's more obvious in the first twitter video. Dude on the left with the green web gear/vest squares up at low ready before old guy pulls, and proceeds to get laid out.

[SouthNarc]

The line for when it stops being open carry and starts being something like brandishing or menacing is not well defined (AFAIK) and now we're seeing more people using that to their advantage.



So in my state what happened would most assuredly by a Simple Assault. Here's the code:

(1)(a) A person is guilty of simple assault if he (i) attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another;  (ii) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon or other means likely to produce death or serious bodily harm;  or (iii) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily harm;  and, upon conviction, he shall be punished by a fine of not more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or both.



https://codes.findlaw.com/ms/title-97-crimes/ms-code-sect-97-3-7.html


That's the line here and it's not vague at all.

[Borderland]

I prefer to dominate the high ground.

Castle doctrine?

[blues]

Castle doctrine?

Let's not.

This shit is disturbing enough that I don't want to joke about it. (And I'm not running a fever.) Mark your calendars.

[wvincent]

Castle doctrine?

Castle?
blues has a castle? And a moat? I always wondered about him.
Bonus street credz for having archers on the wall.

[Savage Hands]

While I could be wrong (but not about barbecue) I thought he had the pistol out before rifle guy (or someone) starts shouting. Let me see if I can find it.

EDIT: at 18 seconds I hear "he's got a gun" and then all the movement starts and camera pans. Again I could be wrong though as tinnitis messes with my hearing.

Also at 29 seconds they are saying to put his gun down.



At 20 seconds in, green body armor is at low ready before the guy in the truck even stops. Edit, I forgot to submit the post and was beat up above.

[JRB]

Castle doctrine?

For some reason I can't help but imagine blues on his roof, in an easy chair with a pith helmet and a modest pour of whiskey, with one of these set up in front of him.

[SouthNarc]

Here is another video from Portland with some protesters marching down both sides of the street with cars leading their column. They treat any people caught in the street who try to drive slowly around them as though those people are the enemy. They smash their windows, flatten their tires, surround the cars with guns pointing at them and demand that they turn their car off and exit the vehicle. If you look at the video at just about the 50 second point you hear what sounds like a gunshot and see what appears to be the empty case from a pistol round eject into the gutter. I could be wrong about the gunshot and ejected case.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edv61e2T3lE&t=1s

And again this doesn't look to me like a right wing crazy trying to drive through protesters to make a political point. This dude looks panicked and shit scared. An average person.

[blues]

I don't have a pith helmet.

[wvincent]

I don't have a pith helmet.

JHC does, with a fracking cool backstory.
I'll buy you one for your birthday, if you wish.
The ultimate gentlemanly accoutrement.

[blues]

JHC does, with a fracking cool backstory.
I'll buy you one for your birthday, if you wish.
The ultimate gentlemanly accoutrement.

You lost me at gentlemanly. I don't own "slacks" either.

[jh9]

So in my state what happened would most assuredly by a Simple Assault. Here's the code:

(1)(a) A person is guilty of simple assault if he (i) attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another;  (ii) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon or other means likely to produce death or serious bodily harm;  or (iii) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily harm;  and, upon conviction, he shall be punished by a fine of not more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or both.



https://codes.findlaw.com/ms/title-97-crimes/ms-code-sect-97-3-7.html


That's the line here and it's not vague at all.

"The state lege has made their decision, now let them enforce it.”

John and Jane Suburb are going to see this shit on the news and they're going to see Guns Behaving Badly. The political affiliation of the people doing it also won't matter. That's going to translate to votes.

[awp_101]

For some reason I can't help but imagine blues on his roof, in an easy chair with a pith helmet and a modest pour of whiskey, with one of these set up in front of him.
I’d play AG on that all day long.


I don't have a pith helmet.

That’s a pithy...

[blues]

"The state lege has made their decision, now let them enforce it.”

John and Jane Suburb are going to see this shit on the news and they're going to see Guns Behaving Badly. The political affiliation of the people doing it also won't matter. That's going to translate to votes.

I'm going to give credit to the unwashed masses that they still can tell the difference between an aggressor and a defender. If they can't, well, it'll all be for nothing afterward anyway.

November, 2022 should be telling.

[JRB]

You lost me at gentlemanly. I don't own "slacks" either.

I said nothing about slacks. Or you wearing any pants at all, honestly.
Who's going to question a dude with whiskey, a pith helmet, and a Gatling gun full of gold dots about not wearing pants? Nobody, that's who. They're probably going to find somewhere else to start a ruckus, too.
Step 1 of deterrence - be absolutely convincing that you're 100% crazy enough to push the damn button.

[SouthNarc]

John and Jane Suburb are going to see this shit on the news and they're going to see Guns Behaving Badly. The political affiliation of the people doing it also won't matter. That's going to translate to votes.

I definitely agree with that.

[blues]

I said nothing about slacks. Or you wearing any pants at all, honestly.
Who's going to question a dude with whiskey, a pith helmet, and a Gatling gun full of gold dots about not wearing pants? Nobody, that's who. They're probably going to find somewhere else to start a ruckus, too.
Step 1 of deterrence - be absolutely convincing that you're 100% crazy enough to push the damn button.

Probably scarier without the pants. Either way...I'll be up there with a cooler and some hardware.

And some good bourbon and single malt for SouthNarc and the other bon vivants.

[wvincent]

I said nothing about slacks. Or you wearing any pants at all, honestly.
Who's going to question a dude with whiskey, a pith helmet, and a Gatling gun full of gold dots about not wearing pants? Nobody, that's who. They're probably going to find somewhere else to start a ruckus, too.
Step 1 of deterrence - be absolutely convincing that you're 100% crazy enough to push the damn button.

Umm, concerning you and blues not wearing any pants, you do realize that we have a PM function on this forum, and please don't confuse us with OnlyFans.
We're serious here, no fucking around.

Anyhoo, I think we missed the mark on blues. After reflection, I picture blues using his verbal judo, de-escalation skills, New Yawk style: :Hey Youse, get da fuq off my lawn, ya hear"?

[JRB]

Umm, concerning you and blues not wearing any pants, you do realize that we have a PM function on this forum, and please don't confuse us with OnlyFans.
We're serious here, no fucking around.

Anyhoo, I think we missed the mark on blues. After reflection, I picture blues using his verbal judo, de-escalation skills, New Yawk style: :Hey Youse, get da fuq off my lawn, ya hear"?

blues is the one that mentioned pants. I'll also have you know that I didn't bring up shovels, fornicating with them, or any of that sort of uncouth stuff.
We're gentlemen, Sir! GENTLEMEN!

[blues]

What's a lawn?

https://macaulay.cuny.edu/seminars/lobel08/images/3/37/Bronx2.gif

[blues]

blues is the one that mentioned pants. I'll also have you know that I didn't bring up shovels, fornicating with them, or any of that sort of uncouth stuff.
We're gentlemen, Sir! GENTLEMEN!

Actually, I mentioned "slacks"

Which reminds me of a quote by my old partner George, who was a multi-tour Vietnam vet, (Marines), from Brooklyn, and former NYPD and ATF.

Getting on the elevator one day he announced: "Men wear trousers, only sailors and children wear pants".

Nobody said a word. I could write a book on things he's said and done. Hilarious. But somebody you wanted with you if someone needed to be butt stroked.

[Borderland]

Castle?
blues has a castle? And a moat? I always wondered about him.
Bonus street credz for having archers on the wall.

In that area, yeah, probably a castle. I think Boyd Crowder is his neighbor.

[Trigger]

What worries me about these urban March/intimidate/terrorize events is that some pickup driver is going to leave, round up his friends, and return to set up an urban ambush for the antifa rioters. https://americandigest.org/the-ambush-by-matt-bracken/ America will be forever changed after that day, and I fear not for the better.

[Zincwarrior]

It's more obvious in the first twitter video. Dude on the left with the green web gear/vest squares up at low ready before old guy pulls, and proceeds to get laid out.
Thank you. That clears that up.

[AKDoug]

Some farmer needs to go full French protestor and drag his liquid manure spreader through those guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Joe in PNG]

"The state lege has made their decision, now let them enforce it.”

John and Jane Suburb are going to see this shit on the news and they're going to see Guns Behaving Badly. The political affiliation of the people doing it also won't matter. That's going to translate to votes.

From what the sales numbers suggest, the typical reaction of John and Jane's to all this is to go out and buy their own gun.

Doubly so now that the official party line in the big Democratic People's Republics is that there's going to be a lot more of this nonsense and a whole lot fewer cops.

[Trigger]

Some farmer needs to go full French protestor and drag his liquid manure spreader through those guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That seems like a good non-violent solution.

[Lex Luthier]

What worries me about these urban March/intimidate/terrorize events is that some pickup driver is going to leave, round up his friends, and return to set up an urban ambush for the antifa rioters. https://americandigest.org/the-ambush-by-matt-bracken/ America will be forever changed after that day, and I fear not for the better.

I was thinking the exact same thing but couldn't remember the name of the article. The way Bracken laid it out would be very simple to implement with a couple of people with like mindsets and the right skills, and would utterly change the world. As you say, not for the better.

[alamo5000]

I don't know the whole story but the driver showed some seriously bad judgement in that video. If you are out numbered like 20 to one including people that are armed get the hell out of there. Getting pissed off and voluntarily exiting the vehicle is stupidity 101.

[Totem Polar]

November, 2022 should be telling.

Concur. I’m just not sure what it will tell us yet.





That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.

FnA right, and the crux of the whole issue, right there.

[Oldherkpilot]

I really wonder about you sometimes.

Only sometimes?

[blues]

Only sometimes?

I only have so much free time.

[blues]

Concur. I’m just not sure what it will tell us yet.

I'd say "thank you, Captain Obvious"...but I concur. None of us are.

[Totem Polar]

I'd say "thank you, Captain Obvious"...but I concur. None of us are.

I just hope I don’t get a promotion to “Major Buzzkill” during midterms.
;)

[awp_101]

We're gentlemen, Sir! GENTLEMEN!
Easy there, I’ve seen nothing in this thread that calls for that level of insults.


I just hope I don’t get a promotion to “Major Buzzkill” during midterms.
;)
I’m shooting for General Nuisance.

[Half Moon]

Easy there, I’ve seen nothing in this thread that calls for that level of insults.


I’m shooting for General Nuisance.

Naw, field grade is where it's at - Colonel Panic...

[Hot Sauce]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.
FWIW I definitely didn't take your comments as supporting his bravado. I share your concern for the state of society, specifically in some extreme cities.

This is the logical derivative of the Defund The Police movement. First authorities cede the streets. Then the brown shirts/black shirts intimidate opponents with threats of physical harm.

Portland is increasingly starting to look like a Hobbesian nightmare.

[CarlK]

Here’s a radio station’s interview of the red pickup truck driver: https://www.ktsa.com/the-man-beaten-by-antifa-for-daring-to-drive-near-them-now-fears-hes-a-marked-man/

[jetfire]

Ah, another successful Open Carry March! Excellent work educating the sheeple!

[Caballoflaco]

Here in Alabama carrying firearms during a political demonstration is against state law.

Despite the law’s racist origins as a dude who wishes to exit this mortal coil without seeing the melting pot revert to separate ingredients that all want to kill each other I’m kinda glad it exists.

And yes I understand that if the government doesn’t have the spine to enforce the law it’s worthless.

[Joe in PNG]

Ah, another successful Open Carry March! Excellent work educating the sheeple!

I'm wanting to both laugh and cry at this comment at the same time.

[Mercworx]

I took my Mini-14 to the range yesterday for a function check. More magazines are on the way.

The cities are being slowly taken over by armed protesters and the police won't/can't intervene until a full blown fire fight starts, and maybe not even then.



Eventually the radical left will get the civil war it thinks it wants. Sadly.

[JCN]

71178

[DDTSGM]

Note to self: when will you learn to read entire thread before posting.

[Shotgun]

Apparently, this is the Portland that Portlanders accept now. Maybe as it plays out, they’ll change their minds. Or vote with their feet.

I wonder how the Portland business community is doing in the area(s) where these marches are occurring. I would hate to be trying to operate a small business of any kind that required foot traffic in areas where these protests occur.

[HCM]

71178

Link ?

[LOKNLOD]

I'm not saying the truck dude should have pulled a pistol or pulled over and started shit talking.

What I'm saying is this: Is this the America we accept now? Is it okay for any group, left or right wing, to disrupt the actions of an average citizen's daily life through threat of force and openly carried firearms while the entire legal system just steps out of the way and allows them to not be held accountable?

That's a level of lawlessness that's usually only seen in lesser developed nations, not the United States of America.

Masks, quarantine, and vaccine talk be damned, politically-sanctioned mob violence is the real "new normal" being created in post-2020 America.

Sanctioned by the same brilliant would-be overlords that are adamant that individuals not be able to possess "weapons of war" or bear arms of any kind.

It's becoming more obvious that these two things are connected. Being well armed is one of the few things that might individuals or small groups to stand up against this mob insanity.

Right now we're seeing the mobs armed up more and more it seems. You know those same politicians are chomping at the bit for it to incite a big shootout that stacks more justification for bans and legislation. The merry bands of useful idiots will still be effective terror squads without any guns of their own, especially when no one else is equipped to do anything about them (and it will eventually be easier to rein the mobs in when the time is right and they're no longer useful).

[peterb]

Ah, another successful Open Carry March! Excellent work educating the sheeple!

Yeah, I had the same thought.

For years the open carry folks have pushed the point that open carry of long guns in an urban setting should be perfectly acceptable. And now…thosepeople walking around with long guns are intimidating! Really?

You reap what you sow.

[RJ]

I wonder how the Portland business community is doing in the area(s) where these marches are occurring. I would hate to be trying to operate a small business of any kind that required foot traffic in areas where these protests occur.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but my guess is something like well over half of the people in Portland support the general causes of these marching groups of thugs. I'd imagine the small businesses in that area would close their doors in solidarity and join the marchers. And even if you didn't, you'd probably be an idiot to publicly go against ANTIFA and the like. I am many thousands of miles away however but would be interested in the local viewpoint, for sure.

I agree with those who think things are going to get worse before they get better. We may look back and wish for "the good old days" of 2021.

[Clusterfrack]

The neighborhood near the some of this was a growing hipster area with good food and drinks. We used to go there often.

Every business in Portland has a BLM sign now.

In our area, a brewpub owner got a bunch of angry complaints about his tiny American flag in the pub, so he took it down.

It is mob rule with the threat of violence.

[Moylan]

Yeah, I had the same thought.

For years the open carry folks have pushed the point that open carry of long guns in an urban setting should be perfectly acceptable. And now…thosepeople walking around with long guns are intimidating! Really?

You reap what you sow.
A) I suspect BLM is taking its cues more from the open carry rallies of the Black Panthers in the 60's and 70's than from the open rifle carry dorks of the teens.
B) Does anyone in the world think that the problem here is with those people walking around with long guns?

[cheby]

I wonder how the Portland business community is doing in the area(s) where these marches are occurring. I would hate to be trying to operate a small business of any kind that required foot traffic in areas where these protests occur.
Portland business community and hipsters are getting exactly what they want and deserve.

[fly out]

... Does anyone in the world think that the problem here is with those people walking around with long guns?

I believe that sentiment has been posted in this thread.

[fixer]

"The state lege has made their decision, now let them enforce it.”

John and Jane Suburb are going to see this shit on the news and they're going to see Guns Behaving Badly. The political affiliation of the people doing it also won't matter. That's going to translate to votes.

This is a good point.

The cynic in me says John and Jane suburb are already on the 'defund the police' bandwagon though. At the least they are going to be conflicted until CNN or MSNBC tell them how to think.

What will push them over the edge as you point out is if there is further escalation. Say, large groups of lifted F250s, with front bumper armor that are turned into technicals, and intentionally engage these kinds of left wing groups.

[fatdog]

I hold the belief that these people are not principled protestors of any sort, but rather this is part of a core of paid anarchists. They have been around for at least a decade, their big nest is up there in the Portland/Eugene neck of the woods, they are paid though a series of cut out organizations funded by radical rich men like Soros, Steyr, and others. The people in this group have no other means of financial support other than unemployment and stimulus checks and what they get paid regularly from the cutout dark money network in many cases. These thugs are not regular old citizens who's conscience drove them into the street.

Their mission is to sow chaos and division in the long goal of radical societal change and advance some sort of statist utopia those rich radicals want.

Their communications are good, their tactics are well thought out, and they are mobile. However the politicized DOJ is not going to be after them any time soon. A mercenary army is now effectively operating on our soil and nobody is doing anything visibly about it.

They have chosen AO's where there will be little opposition from the weak leftist run governments at the city and state level. Where could it get better for them than Oregon/Portland/Multnomah Co., to insure nobody is doing any serious police work or prosecutions to take them down. Washington/Seattle/King Co. would be another example of a safe AO.

[fixer]

It'll be interesting to see how gun control plays out.

Looks like alot of stimmy checks went to purchasing arms.

[cheby]

I hold the belief that these people are not principled protestors of any sort, but rather this is part of a core of paid anarchists. They have been around for at least a decade, their big nest is up there in the Portland/Eugene neck of the woods, they are paid though a series of cut out organizations funded by radical rich men like Soros, Steyr, and others. The people in this group have no other means of financial support other than unemployment and stimulus checks and what they get paid regularly from the cutout dark money network in many cases. These thugs are not regular old citizens who's conscience drove them into the street.

Their mission is to sow chaos and division in the long goal of radical societal change and advance some sort of statist utopia those rich radicals want.

Their communications are good, their tactics are well thought out, and they are mobile. However the politicized DOJ is not going to be after them any time soon. A mercenary army is now effectively operating on our soil and nobody is doing anything visibly about it.

They have chosen AO's where there will be little opposition from the weak leftist run governments at the city and state level. Where could it get better for them than Oregon/Portland/Multnomah Co., to insure nobody is doing any serious police work or prosecutions to take them down. Washington/Seattle/King Co. would be another example of a safe AO.

You are wrong. Trust me.

[Moylan]

I believe that sentiment has been posted in this thread.

Perhaps by peterb and jetfire? I'm hoping I misunderstand the point they're trying to make. Seems like any sane person easily recognizes that this was a confrontational mob threatening people, not a bunch of people merely walking around with long guns.

[fatdog]

Trust me.

I don't.

They may have a substantial number of useful idiots following them, the organizers are not what they purport to be.

[Totem Polar]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but my guess is something like well over half of the people in Portland support the general causes of these marching groups of thugs.

You don’t have to guess. The voting numbers (eg. 76 percent of the vote going for Antifa sympathizer DA Mike Scmidt) tell the story.




It is mob rule with the threat of violence.

Concur. I find it deeply saddening that more people don’t see this for exactly what it is. Ironically, it’s my own experience with the other side of the coin (racist mob mentality) as a kid that makes it so easy for me to see the picture. JMO.

“Look at what the majority of people are doing, and do the exact opposite, and you'll probably never go wrong for as long as you live”
-Earl Nightingale


I hold the belief that these people are not principled protestors of any sort, but rather this is part of a core of paid anarchists.

While I think that the majority of “daylight marchers” are well meaning people (I hope so, since I personally know a ton of people so inclined) I’m going to back my fat canine brother up for a sec here, and point out that one of the main rabble rousers caught inciting the nighttime crowds to property destruction in my area was a paid actor from Portland who was staying in a nice downtown hotel the whole time he was here. This is coming directly from LE, mind, not media reports. He wasn’t the only one that the local joint effort was tracking who was over from Portland on an expense account. Again, this is from direct conversation with folks on the ground. FWIW.

[HCM]

I hold the belief that these people are not principled protestors of any sort, but rather this is part of a core of paid anarchists. They have been around for at least a decade, their big nest is up there in the Portland/Eugene neck of the woods, they are paid though a series of cut out organizations funded by radical rich men like Soros, Steyr, and others. The people in this group have no other means of financial support other than unemployment and stimulus checks and what they get paid regularly from the cutout dark money network in many cases. These thugs are not regular old citizens who's conscience drove them into the street.

This is fantasy. The Soros money goes into thing like electing progressive District Attorneys and Mayors and propositions to defund police. The useful idiots live off unemployment, student loans, family and petty crime. They also fund raise via crowd funding apps. Many of the hardcore so called “professional protestors” live quasi homeless lifestyles. Useful idiots are true believers in the secularist religion of progressivism and true believers don’t need to be paid.

Since we are on the topic, these groups are a confederation with a core of shared beliefs. The idea that they are a single monolithic, pyramid style organization with a Soros type bogey msn at the top is fantasy. The best comparison is the various Islamist extremist groups, Hezbollah, ISIS, Al Qeada etc are all Muslims, all hate the west and sometimes cooperate but they all have their own agendas and don’t necessarily get along.

Their mission is to sow chaos and division in the long goal of radical societal change and advance some sort of statist utopia those rich radicals want.

The first part of this statement is correct, it’s called Accelerationism, basically do what ever you can to accelerate the break down of the current social order so you can replace it with your own. There are right wing extremist groups who are accelerationist too.

Their communications are good, their tactics are well thought out, and they are mobile. However the politicized DOJ is not going to be after them any time soon. A mercenary army is now effectively operating on our soil and nobody is doing anything visibly about it.

Their communications not great but they are secure because they learned those lessons in the 60s and 70s, unlike right wing extremists whose communication security is poor.

They have chosen AO's where there will be little opposition from the weak leftist run governments at the city and state level. Where could it get better for them than Oregon/Portland/Multnomah Co., to insure nobody is doing any serious police work or prosecutions to take them down. Washington/Seattle/King Co. would be another example of a safe AO.

This is where the dark money you referenced above actually goes. This is the result of many years of money going into local and state elections and academia. When you make enough of those investments you don’t need to pay protestors.

[Kyle Reese]

This is a good point.

The cynic in me says John and Jane suburb are already on the 'defund the police' bandwagon though. At the least they are going to be conflicted until CNN or MSNBC tell them how to think.

What will push them over the edge as you point out is if there is further escalation. Say, large groups of lifted F250s, with front bumper armor that are turned into technicals, and intentionally engage these kinds of left wing groups.

It does beg the question though; if the police are demoralized and defunded, who will enforce these shiny new gun control laws? Especially in situations articulated in this thread. Genuinely curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WobblyPossum]

Perhaps by peterb and jetfire? I'm hoping I misunderstand the point they're trying to make. Seems like any sane person easily recognizes that this was a confrontational mob threatening people, not a bunch of people merely walking around with long guns.

I don’t want to drift the topic too badly and turn this into a debate about open carry, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone MERELY walking around with long guns outside of people in orange vests during hunting season. To borrow a phrase I first heard from Tamara, I’ve only seen people carrying guns at others. This strikes me as the next logical progression of what started with the Starbucks SKS people and escalated to the rifle-armed/plate carrier people who have walked into state legislatures during hearings about controversial bills.

[Totem Polar]

HCM, I have heard directly from people involved in the arrests that some of these “protestors” are paid. Not trying to start an argument, but I trust my sources on my end.

[HCM]

HCM, I have heard directly from people involved in the arrests that some of these “protestors” are paid. Not trying to start an argument, but I trust my sources on my end.

First define “paid” - travel costs, materials - yes these groups do fund raise, often via crowd funding apps, that doesn’t equal being on retainer for Soros.

I believe they told you that and I even believe they believe it but that doesn’t make it factual.

[Totem Polar]

First define “paid” - travel costs, materials - yes these groups do fund raise, often via crowd funding apps, that doesn’t equal being on retainer for Soros.

I believe they told you that and I even believe they believe it but that doesn’t make it factual.

I define “paid” as: somebody is fronting money that allows these out-of-state goofballs to travel, eat, raise hell, and stay in a *nice* hotel, all with little overt employment record. I never said anything about Soros.

And with that, I’m done arguing this one. If you wish to believe that you know more about local issues than the locals, carry on.

[HCM]

I define “paid” as: somebody is fronting money that allows these out-of-state goofballs to travel, eat, raise hell, and stay in a *nice* hotel, all with little overt employment record. I never said anything about Soros.

And with that, I’m done arguing this one. If you wish to believe that you know more about local issues than the locals, carry on.

If I look a round me right now the world looks flat. Is the Earth flat? Perspective matters.

[jetfire]

Perhaps by peterb and jetfire? I'm hoping I misunderstand the point they're trying to make. Seems like any sane person easily recognizes that this was a confrontational mob threatening people, not a bunch of people merely walking around with long guns.

The only difference between these people and the “let’s open carry rifles” dorks is that these people are actually willing to use violence, whereas OC advocates are just cosplaying.

The open carry of long guns has never been culturally accepted in cities and towns in the US, even back so far as the 1800s. While a handgun was a normal site, people didn’t walk around town with their carbines.

The OC dork movement has assisted the behavior of these rioters by clearly demonstrating that LE won’t engage with people who are by and large obeying the law (with regards to carry). So yeah, by “educating the sheeple” they managed to let some real assholes know it was legal to tote rifles around in public.

Fuck open carry advocates

[Caballoflaco]

The only difference between these people and the “let’s open carry rifles” dorks is that these people are actually willing to use violence, whereas OC advocates are just cosplaying.

The open carry of long guns has never been culturally accepted in cities and towns in the US, even back so far as the 1800s. While a handgun was a normal site, people didn’t walk around town with their carbines.

The OC dork movement has assisted the behavior of these rioters by clearly demonstrating that LE won’t engage with people who are by and large obeying the law (with regards to carry). So yeah, by “educating the sheeple” they managed to let some real assholes know it was legal to tote rifles around in public.

Fuck open carry advocates

The only thing you got wrong is the pistol thing. Most western towns in also banned open or concealed carry of pistols. One of the first thing the Earps did when they became the Law in Tombstone is outlaw the carry of weapons in town.

[Clusterfrack]

Cross-posting:
@rj, my guess is that anyone who uses deadly force against BLM or Antifa will be the focus of prosecution to the extreme. City, county, and state officials have made it clear that leftist ‘protesters’ are the good guys, pretty much no matter what they do.

A jury trial is not likely to go in the favor of someone trying to defend themselves.

Steer clear. Take a beating if necessary. The alternatives are worse....

Only partially joking about this part: BLM / Antifa E&E kit:
Black shirt with leftist slogan
Gas mask
Helmet
Sealed eye pro
Blunt trauma weapons

Abandon vehicle, if necessary claim to have stolen it. Most of the enemy is stoned, so it won’t take much to blend in long enough to escape.

[whomever]

"The open carry of long guns has never been culturally accepted in cities and towns in the US, even back so far as the 1800s. While a handgun was a normal site, people didn’t walk around town with their carbines. "

I think that must depend on the location and time. Anecdote alert: sometime around 1970 I turned 14 or so, in ruralish Virginia. My Xmas present was a 22 rifle (one of what Washington state now classifies as an assault rifle, the magazine fed version of the Nylon 66).

The day after Xmas a friend's family was going to the range and I was invited. They lived a couple of miles away through town (the county seat). I put a box of shells in my pocket and the rifle in the crook of my arm (I didn't have a sling or case) and started marching through town. About halfway there I came up to a corner as a patrol car arrived. I crossed in front of him a,d we exchanged grins ... it was a regular Norman Rockwell moment, the kid getting his first rifle for Xmas.

For bonus points, the corner was the corner of a large schoolyard, so after I got to the other side of the street I turned and cut diagonally across the schoolyard, because that was the shortest path.

I have also heard of kids in the ??1950's?? taking their rifles on the NYC subway because they had rifle team practice after school.

At my high school, it was not at all unusual to see kids pickups in the lot with rifles in the gun racks that went across the back window.



Three asides:
1)I generally think the folks who made a point of open carry at at starbucks etc are loons.
2)I don't see 'open carry' in those videos, I see people pointing rifles at other people. That's not nice.
3)I saw a screen capture from one of those vids ... the 'protester' was carrying - well, pointing - an M&P 15/22 ... with no magazine and ... no charging handle. You could see the open slot where the charging handle goes. I kinda wonder what the game plan is. If I was an evil antifa mastermind, I wouldn't want my team shooting anybody, but I think I'd like some martyrs that I could exploit. Having people point non-functional guns at people would be one way to make that happen.

[FNFAN]

Circa 1974 going to small bore matches we would sign the rifles out of the ROTC arms room and load them on a cart to roll out to one of the team's vehicles. Normal practice days they got loaded onto a cart and wheeled through the halls down to the high school rifle range.

[Joe in PNG]

Historically, there was a bit cultural difference between a youth toting a bolt .22 or shottie during particular days of a hunting season- when everyone in that small community knew it was hunting season, and generally walking around town and going about one's daily business with a long gun in hand. The latter activity was never generally accepted.

[Clusterfrack]

Looks like the guy took a beating.

“dislocated shoulder, broken left clavicle and five broken ribs”
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2021/05/police-investigating-armed-confrontation-on-north-portland-street.html

[blues]

Looks like the guy took a beating.

“dislocated shoulder, broken left clavicle and five broken ribs”
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2021/05/police-investigating-armed-confrontation-on-north-portland-street.html

Mostly peaceful.

[Clusterfrack]

Mostly peaceful.

Mostly.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210508/c5b1871383d2042e962c83a8e4177f89.jpg

[Joe in PNG]

One can almost see a plan taking shape-
1) the Democrats defund local departments
2) street crime and "peaceful protest" increase
3) the Normies react by going vigilante
4) the Democrats are Shocked! by this increase in crime, and demand an immediate weapons ban right now!
5) (Bonus) the Democrats federalize all local law enforcement agencies to stop the horrible institutional racism and stuff

But, these things historically tend to go off the rails, as most things involving people do, and go off in a totally unanticipated direction with a lot of unintended consequences.

What, I don't know.

[Moylan]

The OC dork movement has assisted the behavior of these rioters by clearly demonstrating that LE won’t engage with people who are by and large obeying the law (with regards to carry). So yeah, by “educating the sheeple” they managed to let some real assholes know it was legal to tote rifles around in public.

Like I said earlier, the Black Panthers made that point pretty strongly back in the 60's. I suspect that there are at least a couple of modern black revolutionary Marxists in the BLM organization who have heard a little bit about the antics of the previous generation of black revolutionary Marxists.

[Moylan]

I don’t want to drift the topic too badly and turn this into a debate about open carry, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone MERELY walking around with long guns outside of people in orange vests during hunting season. To borrow a phrase I first heard from Tamara, I’ve only seen people carrying guns at others. This strikes me as the next logical progression of what started with the Starbucks SKS people and escalated to the rifle-armed/plate carrier people who have walked into state legislatures during hearings about controversial bills.

I can't see the parity between dorks going into Starbucks or whatever and more or less just doing legal dorky things, and huge armed crowds blocking traffic and attacking motorists. I'd agree the latter are carrying guns at people. The former, not so much. Making a point about legality is just not comparable to participating in an armed riot.

[Clusterfrack]

I can't see the parity between dorks going into Starbucks or whatever and more or less just doing legal dorky things, and huge armed crowds blocking traffic and attacking motorists. I'd agree the latter are carrying guns at people. The former, not so much. Making a point about legality is just not comparable to participating in an armed riot.

The key difference is the BLM/Antifa open carriers are involved in unlawful and threatening activities.

“I’m scared of people because they are armed” is fundamentally different from armed individuals doing crimes and threatening people.

[GyroF-16]

The key difference is the BLM/Antifa open carriers are involved in unlawful and threatening activities.

“I’m scared of people because they are armed” is fundamentally different from armed individuals doing crimes and threatening people.

THIS.

If the American Nazi party or the KKK were doing exactly the same things as the BLM “activists” in those videos, there’d be riot cops in the street, and maybe Federalized National Guard to make it stop right now.

But if they’re being violent and threatening for the “right” (actually “left”) political reasons, somehow it’s okay.
Like blues, I’m truly coming to fear for the future of our nation.

[LittleLebowski]

First define “paid” - travel costs, materials - yes these groups do fund raise, often via crowd funding apps, that doesn’t equal being on retainer for Soros.

I believe they told you that and I even believe they believe it but that doesn’t make it factual.

Pete Blaber (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XQEVWQ/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003XQEVWQ&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20): “Always listen to the guy on the ground” and also, he did not say anything about Soros, not sure why you inserted that?

[TheNewbie]

Pete Blaber (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XQEVWQ/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003XQEVWQ&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20): “Always listen to the guy on the ground” and also, he did not say anything about Soros, not sure why you inserted that?

Have five minutes left in the audio version of this book. Wish it were longer.

[Savage Hands]

First define “paid” - travel costs, materials - yes these groups do fund raise, often via crowd funding apps, that doesn’t equal being on retainer for Soros.

I believe they told you that and I even believe they believe it but that doesn’t make it factual.


These “professional” paid protesters have been going on in the Bay Area for decades before crowd funding, a close relative has dealt with and arrested some of the same group of people for years. I think it’s evolved quite a bit lately and are much more organized, better funded and fuel their propaganda very effectively via social media.
Does Soros need to fund it when “Non profits” like BLM are taking in tens of millions of dollars?


Edit: I should add an easy example https://crowdsondemand.com/

Hire DemonstratorsAre you looking to create a buzz anywhere in the United States? At Crowds on Demand, we provide our clients with protests, rallies, flash-mobs, paparazzi events and other inventive PR stunts. These services are available across the country in every major U.S city, every major U.S metro area and even most smaller cities as well. We provide everything including the people, the materials and even the ideas. You can come to us with a specific plan of action and we can make it happen. OR, you can approach us with a general idea and we can help you plan the strategy then execute it.
We’ve made campaigns involving hundreds of people come to action in just days. We have a proven record of delivering major wins on even the toughest campaigns and delivering phenomenal experiences with even the most logistically challenging events.
Our services are now available throughout the United States, so whether you’re looking at doing a single event or a multi-city campaign, we have the resources available to achieve your goals. Our headquarters are located in Beverly Hills, CA with an event operations center located in the suburbs of Dallas, TX. Satellite offices are located all over the country to allow us to execute operations with as little as 24-48 hours notice in every city in the United States and with 72-96 hours notice in any rural or exurban location in the United States.

[MickAK]

I define “paid” as: somebody is fronting money that allows these out-of-state goofballs to travel, eat, raise hell, and stay in a *nice* hotel, all with little overt employment record. I never said anything about Soros.

And with that, I’m done arguing this one. If you wish to believe that you know more about local issues than the locals, carry on.

Re: the money thing. This is how some of that goes. Not all of it, but at least a good chunk.

Prior to Bitcoin becoming some weird investment nobody really understands it was primarily used as a means of exchange for shady shit. You send me Bitcoin, I send you shady shit. A good number of ANTIFA sympathizers ending up holding a lot of Bitcoin, and when the price went up substantially and the Feds starting paying close attention to people who had somehow gotten a lot of Bitcoin transferred to their wallets a method of cleaning that money before Bitcoin inevitably goes into the toilet was needed.

Cue ANTIFA folks and their minions. They create an OnlyFans, get a few desperate subscribers that pay like 6$ a month because their really is someone for everyone including hairy homeless trannys, then somebody starts paying like 10k a month because there really is someone for everyone. A percentage of that is taken for the cause because a lot of the degens who ended up holding a lot of Bitcoin sympathize with the cause.

Everybody wins. The Bitcoin holder gets a bigger percentage of their money back than they would normally, activists get enough money to send the more equal than others animals to your town in a nice hotel, social justice is served. If the Feds ask where the Bitcoin went, 'I spent it on Ewhores' is not an unusual answer for those holding large amounts of Bitcoin.

This is probably going to expand, as money launderers are pretty quick to pick up on new tricks. Expect a large increase in the interest in low quality pictures of ugly social activists in your area.

[Borderland]

Re: the money thing. This is how some of that goes. Not all of it, but at least a good chunk.

Prior to Bitcoin becoming some weird investment nobody really understands it was primarily used as a means of exchange for shady shit. You send me Bitcoin, I send you shady shit. A good number of ANTIFA sympathizers ending up holding a lot of Bitcoin, and when the price went up substantially and the Feds starting paying close attention to people who had somehow gotten a lot of Bitcoin transferred to their wallets a method of cleaning that money before Bitcoin inevitably goes into the toilet was needed.

Cue ANTIFA folks and their minions. They create an OnlyFans, get a few desperate subscribers that pay like 6$ a month because their really is someone for everyone including hairy homeless trannys, then somebody starts paying like 10k a month because there really is someone for everyone. A percentage of that is taken for the cause because a lot of the degens who ended up holding a lot of Bitcoin sympathize with the cause.

Everybody wins. The Bitcoin holder gets a bigger percentage of their money back than they would normally, activists get enough money to send the more equal than others animals to your town in a nice hotel, social justice is served. If the Feds ask where the Bitcoin went, 'I spent it on Ewhores' is not an unusual answer for those holding large amounts of Bitcoin.

This is probably going to expand, as money launderers are pretty quick to pick up on new tricks. Expect a large increase in the interest in low quality pictures of ugly social activists in your area.

Is this like Mexican restaurant's with unlimited financial resources to open and stay in business? Just asking.

[MickAK]

Is this like Mexican recusants with unlimited financial resources to open and stay in business? Just asking.

I don't know, I don't have any friends in the Mexican restaurant business. I would be hesitant to paint some of them with that brush because I know how hard some of them work and how little they get by on but I'm sure it happens there too.

[Borderland]

I don't know, I don't have any friends in the Mexican restaurant business. I would be hesitant to paint some of them with that brush because I know how hard some of them work and how little they get by on but I'm sure it happens there too.


I know one. He's a good guy and a damn hard worker, both him and his wife. Bottom line is I don't like banks, so if you can secure a business loan from a relative I don't have a problem with that. La familia I think they call it.

[HCM]

Re: the money thing. This is how some of that goes. Not all of it, but at least a good chunk.

Prior to Bitcoin becoming some weird investment nobody really understands it was primarily used as a means of exchange for shady shit. You send me Bitcoin, I send you shady shit. A good number of ANTIFA sympathizers ending up holding a lot of Bitcoin, and when the price went up substantially and the Feds starting paying close attention to people who had somehow gotten a lot of Bitcoin transferred to their wallets a method of cleaning that money before Bitcoin inevitably goes into the toilet was needed.

Cue ANTIFA folks and their minions. They create an OnlyFans, get a few desperate subscribers that pay like 6$ a month because their really is someone for everyone including hairy homeless trannys, then somebody starts paying like 10k a month because there really is someone for everyone. A percentage of that is taken for the cause because a lot of the degens who ended up holding a lot of Bitcoin sympathize with the cause.

Everybody wins. The Bitcoin holder gets a bigger percentage of their money back than they would normally, activists get enough money to send the more equal than others animals to your town in a nice hotel, social justice is served. If the Feds ask where the Bitcoin went, 'I spent it on Ewhores' is not an unusual answer for those holding large amounts of Bitcoin.

This is probably going to expand, as money launderers are pretty quick to pick up on new tricks. Expect a large increase in the interest in low quality pictures of ugly social activists in your area.

Yes, though Bitcoin is a bit passe now. As of January 2021 there were over 4,000 different crypto currencies. It's come up in several cases, not just ANTIFA.

I've had one these subjects doing the only fans thing as well. Chubby hairy male whose pronouns were They/Them. But hey lets not turn this into a guns for "bear" defense thread.

IME Antifa folks are fond of alternate crowdfunding platforms such as Plumfund and Honeyfund.

[HCM]

Pete Blaber (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XQEVWQ/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003XQEVWQ&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20): “Always listen to the guy on the ground” and also, he did not say anything about Soros, not sure why you inserted that?

His original comment was affirming what Fatdog posted which included Soros and Styer.

Soros does have a secret army, but they have $1,000 suits and $100 haircuts rather than plate carriers and their weapons are campaign contributions and the contacts in their iphones.

[wvincent]

Have we started the over/under yet on when BLM/ANTIFA roll with a technical on one of their street walks?

[WDR]

Have we started the over/under yet on when BLM/ANTIFA roll with a technical on one of their street walks?

I don't think the had a Bofors 40mm in the bed... but I believe that has already happened. More than once.

[blues]

There should be an open season declared to keep their numbers in check...

...and of course, to keep them from starving.

It would be the humane thing to do. And it would stimulate the economy.



https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/elmer_fudd.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

His original comment was affirming what Fatdog posted which included Soros and Styer.

Soros does have a secret army, but they have $1,000 suits and $100 haircuts rather than plate carriers and their weapons are campaign contributions and the contacts in their iphones.

So, he didn’t say it and he also specifically went to the trouble of pointing out that was not his assertion. Furthermore, he’s there on the ground.

[awp_101]

There should be an open season declared to keep their numbers in check...

...and of course, to keep them from starving.
Soylent Green really IS the solution!

[blues]

Soylent Green really IS the solution!

http://annotatedmst.com/tinymce/plugins/moxiemanager/data/files/Sidehackers/soylent%20green.jpg

"Soylent Green is ANTIFA!"

[Clusterfrack]

Good article by liberal writer John McWhorter on the myth of police shootings of black people:

https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-victorians-had-to-accept-darwin

[Borderland]

So, he didn’t say it and he also specifically went to the trouble of pointing out that was not his assertion. Furthermore, he’s there on the ground.

Works like that everywhere. People who have contacts in the community will always know more than those that don't.

When I was a kid my dad used to be an informant (not paid) for the border patrol. He own a restaurant at a small local airport and exchanged information with the BP who used the airport for aircraft operations. Mostly they weren't interested in illegals crossing the border at that time, but very interested in drugs coming across through the airport. Somehow he always knew where he could find a herd of deer around deer season.

He knew a lot more about the local situation then anyone who didn't live there and more than most who did.

He carried a model 97 shotgun with a riot barrel in his pickup for snakes, so he said. :rolleyes: AZ border, 1964.

[HCM]

So, he didn’t say it and he also specifically went to the trouble of pointing out that was not his assertion. Furthermore, he’s there on the ground.

You are being obtuse. And he’s in Western Washington. Not Portland.

[Casual Friday]

You are being obtuse. And he’s in Western Washington. Not Portland.

Since we're nitpicking shit, he's in Eastern WA.

[whomever]

"And he’s in Western Washington. Not Portland."

FWIW, my reading was that Mr. Polar was saying he knew folks in his local (Eastern WA) PD who said that local protesters were getting paid, not that the Portland ones were. But it is ambiguous, maybe he knows an LEO in Western Oregon. Online communications are tricky because you can't get immediate clarification, so I try to read generously.

The only LEOs I'm on a first name basis with live hundreds of miles from me :-).

[Lex Luthier]

Totem Polar is in the Spokane area, in the tri-cities area of WA State. It's about as far as one can get from Western WA and still be in the same state, though the city and university politics are somewhat similar to Seattle, with very attenuated overlaps. 10 miles from there in practically any direction, you are verging on completely opposite attitudes. The dark-skinned folk out there would surprise a lot of southern dwellers with how conservative they are.

[Shotgun]

Have we started the over/under yet on when BLM/ANTIFA roll with a technical on one of their street walks?

Help please. What does roll with a technical mean?

[SCCY Marshal]

Help please. What does roll with a technical mean?

https://i.imgur.com/84jgwuU.jpg

[Shotgun]

Thank you. Learned something new.

[JRB]

https://i.imgur.com/84jgwuU.jpg

As cute as that image is, five of those are Land Cruisers, only three of them are Hiluxes. Land Cruiser > Hilux all day every day.

[wvincent]

As cute as that image is, five of those are Land Cruisers, only three of them are Hiluxes. Land Cruiser > Hilux all day every day.

Considering it's Portland, I'm betting we get a Prius with a sun roof mounted belt fed.

What I would give for a Hiluxe of my own. I'm in South Dakota, so I'd probably have to figure out some twin mounted 1895 lever action arrangement.

[LOKNLOD]

What I would give for a Hiluxe of my own. I'm in South Dakota, so I'd probably have to figure out some twin mounted 1895 lever action arrangement.

Colt Bulldog gatling, obviously.

[Lex Luthier]

Considering it's Portland, I'm betting we get a Prius with a sun roof mounted belt fed.

What I would give for a Hiluxe of my own. I'm in South Dakota, so I'd probably have to figure out some twin mounted 1895 lever action arrangement.

1971 International Scout II with dual mount Colt Potato-Diggers?

It's not like they would be ineffective, anyway.

Not sure ANTIFA grade plate carriers would be useful against 30-40 Krag hunting rounds...

[SCCY Marshal]

Gah, beaten while selecting the video!


I'm in South Dakota, so I'd probably have to figure out some twin mounted 1895 lever action arrangement.

Or the other lever-action 1895:

https://youtu.be/fhsYggP7FPU

[Lex Luthier]

Gah, beaten while selecting the video!



Or the other lever-action 1895:

https://youtu.be/fhsYggP7FPU

I think we're reading each other's mail.

[JRB]

Considering it's Portland, I'm betting we get a Prius with a sun roof mounted belt fed.

What I would give for a Hiluxe of my own. I'm in South Dakota, so I'd probably have to figure out some twin mounted 1895 lever action arrangement.

Hiluxes are overrated.

Almost anywhere outside of North America, one can buy a quad cab 75 series Land Cruiser with a pickup bed, live front and rear axles with e-lockers in the front, center, and rear diff, with a 1VD-FTE engine which is a 4.5L twin turbo 32v DOHC common rail diesel V8 that makes almost 500ft-lbs of torque and gets 25mpg highway... with an available 6 speed manual trans as well.

The Land Cruiser is the gem, Hiluxes aren't all that great.

[wvincent]

I think we're reading each other's mail.

And I think you've been in my office, pegging the caliber like that.
71275
71276

Stick around next time, we'll have a beverage or 10.:D

[wvincent]

JRB, can one bring one of these "quad cab 75 series Land Cruiser with a pickup bed" CONUS?
That rig would satisfy all of my farm/ranch and hunting needs.

[Lex Luthier]

And I think you've been in my office, pegging the caliber like that.
71275
71276

Stick around next time, we'll have a beverage or 10.:D

Jeez, 1895 Win in 30-40? that's a pretty potent mandala you have on your wall.

[wvincent]

Jeez, 1895 Win in 30-40? that's a pretty potent mandala you have on your wall.

That 1895 was "okay", then when I installed the Williams Aperture Sight, it really became one of my "faves".

[JRB]

JRB, can one bring one of these "quad cab 75 series Land Cruiser with a pickup bed" CONUS?
That rig would satisfy all of my farm/ranch and hunting needs.

Short answer is no.

Long answer is that you can direct import any vehicle for road use on an HS-7 with minimal fuss once it's 25 years old or older by production date. A friend of mine is in the import business bringing in older Japanese sports cars under the '25 year rule'. He dabbled in Land Cruisers for a little while too but the market's gone crazy on those in the past 5 years.

Trying to import anything for road use that's younger than 25 years old requires it to meet the NHTSA/DOT requirements of being 'substantially similar' to a US model, which is impossible for a 70 series anything because we never got the 70 series Land Cruiser, and we never got that engine.

[Joe in PNG]

The old 2.4D Hiluxes are the ones that are really All That. We have one here that was old when I used it regularly back in 2000, and is still going.

As for the 70 Series LC's... I'm not a major fan, and I have been driving those things on a very regular basis since 2013. The BJ40 SWB, on the other hand- now that's a pretty sweet ride.

ETA: a couple of years back, I drove a brand spanking new Series 70 to Lae to get a turbo installed. While there, we rented a newer model Hilux. The sad truth is that after 4+ hours of the Highland Highway, we kind of wanted to keep the Hilux.

[Wondering Beard]

I think we need to start threads on 1) what gun for technicals and 2) best platforms and components for CONUS technicals.

[idahojess]

You are being obtuse. And he’s in Western Washington. Not Portland.

His original post was that agitators from Portland were getting set up with hotel rooms in the area of eastern Washington where he lives, which is next to the Idaho border, and about 5-6 hours drive from Portland.


(And lex is off a bit -- Spokane is not part of the Tri-Cities/Dry Shities -- it's 137 miles further northeast).

[Oldherkpilot]

JRB, can one bring one of these "quad cab 75 series Land Cruiser with a pickup bed" CONUS?
That rig would satisfy all of my farm/ranch and hunting needs.

http://https://www.integratedskillsgroup.com/isg-categories/mobility

Integrated Group did a series of article that included how to obtain the older Land Cruiser JRB is talking about. Like him, they think Land Cruisers are the ticket.

[blues]

I think we need to start threads on 1) what gun for technicals and 2) best platforms and components for CONUS technicals.

Will we still be able to make humorous remarks in a "technical" thread?

(I'll see myself out.)

Oh...on topic: F##k Antifa.

[Wondering Beard]

Will we still be able to make humorous remarks in a "technical" thread?

(I'll see myself out.)

Oh...on topic: F##k Antifa.

I would imagine the mods would allow that as a technicality.

[blues]

I would imagine the mods would allow that as a technicality.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/d3/e7/b1d3e74ae6d39ad4d35804b07d6f9cbc.png

"I see what you did there."

[Totem Polar]

His original post was that agitators from Portland were getting set up with hotel rooms in the area of eastern Washington where he lives, which is next to the Idaho border, and about 5-6 hours drive from Portland.


(And lex is off a bit -- Spokane is not part of the Tri-Cities/Dry Shities -- it's 137 miles further northeast).

Since this sub thread is still a thing, Idahojess has it right. And, since this is in general, and not behind a wall, that’s about all I have left to say.

:)

[That Guy]

Considering it's Portland, I'm betting we get a Prius with a sun roof mounted belt fed.


Wait, Black Rifle Coffee Company is in Portland? Because...


https://youtu.be/zvoeGQnbdBw

[Lex Luthier]

His original post was that agitators from Portland were getting set up with hotel rooms in the area of eastern Washington where he lives, which is next to the Idaho border, and about 5-6 hours drive from Portland.


(And lex is off a bit -- Spokane is not part of the Tri-Cities/Dry Shities -- it's 137 miles further northeast).

My apologies for cluttering up a perfectly good thread-drift with inaccuracies. (grin)

Coffee - it's a sacrament!

To my mind, the problem with so many of these situations is that some of the basic information simply cannot be shared outside of various organizations, and thus cannot be verified.
It must drive folks crazy at times. I would love the skinny on a lot of the underground orgs working mischief up here, but I know I cannot get it from official sources.

[RJ]

Will we still be able to make humorous remarks in a "technical" thread?


Well, since we reached the thread-drift point, I'll say, well, of course we will. :cool:

71279

[JRB]

The old 2.4D Hiluxes are the ones that are really All That. We have one here that was old when I used it regularly back in 2000, and is still going.

As for the 70 Series LC's... I'm not a major fan, and I have been driving those things on a very regular basis since 2013. The BJ40 SWB, on the other hand- now that's a pretty sweet ride.

ETA: a couple of years back, I drove a brand spanking new Series 70 to Lae to get a turbo installed. While there, we rented a newer model Hilux. The sad truth is that after 4+ hours of the Highland Highway, we kind of wanted to keep the Hilux.

Joe - my experience with the Hiluxes are either Mexican market or Middle East (GCC) market models, and my 70-75 series experience is with 25+ year old Japanese models and GCC market models.
That collective experience is 100% counter to what you're saying here, and I'm really surprised you'd prefer a 40 over a 70 because the 70 does everything better IME, with the exceptions of looking cool and having a short wheelbase.

They're all fantastically reliable and easy to maintain (as are the Toyota Hiace vans that are everywhere in the middle east as well) but the 70 series LC's were just absolutely fantastic for truck/SUV stuff. If one needed a sedan in particularly rugged parts of the world, the Hilux is the better choice. On my 2019-2020 trip to the middle east, I briefly had a quad cab Hilux with the 2.7L dual VVTi gas engine (2TR-FE) before I was told to return it and take a Mitsubishi Pajero instead. Being the gearhead that I am I couldn't help but poke all around underneath it and see what it was like. Having worked on lots of Tacomas, it was basically a smaller and cheaper Tacoma with zero advantages over a Tacoma aside from it still being a true compact pickup in sizing. Unlike the Taco -and every other US market pickup- which all keep getting pointlessly bigger every 5 minutes.

I got some seat time with Kuwaitis I was working with in their various Kuwaiti military spec 75 series LC single cab pickups, which all had 4.0L 1GR-FE V6's with 6MT manual transmissions and were triple-locked. I was told that the gas engines were favored due to performance in the very harsh (135*+F) Kuwaiti summers. Gas engine aside, I was very impressed with those. A Kuwaiti officer I worked with owns a 70 series quad cab with the 4.5L twin turbo diesel V8, manual trans, lockers, etc and that thing was simply everything I've ever wanted in a truck with none of the other BS, and I'm still in love with it to this day. I'd pay pretty stupid money for one if it were possible to bring it over.

Overall impressions/cliffs notes to me was the Hilux was great at beating around town and on pavement where the IFS and smaller size made it more comfortable and easier to deal with in crazy traffic. The Cruiser was much better at being a truck and doing truck stuff and generally being invincible. My overall experience with both is very limited compared to US models, but it was enough time that I'm convinced of the LC's utter dominance, especially the 70 series.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

To go back to the topic (yes, Dad) - reports on Gramps was that he first tried to deter folks with a gun that shot hard pellets or something. Was that an airsoft or one of those pepper ball, hard ball 'guns'? That's seems icing on the cake for foolish deterrent tricks? Then he went for a snubbie?

Any info on that?

[RoyGBiv]

Similar shenanigans in Plano TX last week.

Leftists Dox Texas Man Who Confronted Gun-Toting BLM Goons Blocking Traffic in Plano (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/leftists-dox-texas-man-confronted-gun-toting-blm-goons-blocking-traffic-plano/)


Love the title of the video in that article.
I pray I'm far, far away when this shit inevitably goes hot.

71280

[RancidSumo]

Similar shenanigans in Plano TX last week.

Leftists Dox Texas Man Who Confronted Gun-Toting BLM Goons Blocking Traffic in Plano (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/leftists-dox-texas-man-confronted-gun-toting-blm-goons-blocking-traffic-plano/)


Love the title of the video in that article.
I pray I'm far, far away when this shit inevitably goes hot.

71280

Don't like seeing it in non-Austin Texas. Just as I'm starting to have to drive downtown a bit more.

[Shotgun]

Similar shenanigans in Plano TX last week.
I pray I'm far, far away when this shit inevitably goes hot.

Aren't you full of good news this Monday morning. That's right in our backyard. I would much rather this stay up in Portland. This is way too close to home for comfort.

I notice the Plano police officer there just watching. Why isn't he directing the protesters to get off the street? Waiting on backup perhaps?

[blues]

If this crap is left online by social media which deletes, at its whim, the comments of those they disagree with, they should not only be broken up, but the pieces set aflame.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm currently reading Boessenecker's book about Frank Hamer, (https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Ranger-Frank-Killed-Bonnie-ebook/dp/B0166SEUTQ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Boessenecker&qid=1620735013&sr=8-2) and early 20th century Texas is looking oddly contemporary right now- especially the Sherman Riot of 1930.

[RoyGBiv]

Similar shenanigans in Plano TX last week.

Leftists Dox Texas Man Who Confronted Gun-Toting BLM Goons Blocking Traffic in Plano (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/leftists-dox-texas-man-confronted-gun-toting-blm-goons-blocking-traffic-plano/)


Love the title of the video in that article.
I pray I'm far, far away when this shit inevitably goes hot.

71280

71309

[TGS]

I'm currently reading Boessenecker's book about Frank Hamer (https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Ranger-Frank-Killed-Bonnie-ebook/dp/B0166SEUTQ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Boessenecker&qid=1620735013&sr=8-2), and early 20th century Texas is looking oddly contemporary right now- especially the Sherman Riot of 1930.

I'm mostly unfamiliar. I remember there being popular(?) displeasure with the Texas Rangers and them being disbanded, only to get called back to service when the good idea fairy didn't turn out the way they had hoped re: disbanding effective law enforcement.

Can you explain further for those of us unfamiliar with the specifics?

[Hot Sauce]

71309This was worth squinting for two minutes. I wish I had a State AG like that.

[Clusterfrack]

Unequal enforcement of the law is a disturbing pattern that is spreading in our country.

[RoyGBiv]

This was worth squinting for two minutes. I wish I had a State AG like that.

Apologies... Maybe the original Tweet is easier to read.. ?
At least you can resize it in your browser..

1391844529624473600

[vcdgrips]

But what is he, the TX AG going to do about it?

Is he going to task DPS to pick up the slack where locals can not or will not?

That communication, in the Texas Vernacular, is all hat and no cattle.

[RoyGBiv]

But what is he, the TX AG going to do about it?

Is he going to task DPS to pick up the slack where locals can not or will not?

That communication, in the Texas Vernacular, is all hat and no cattle.

Indeed, thus far.

[Shotgun]

71309

Thank you for posting that. My initial reaction is what a chicken sh-- of a police chief Plano must have. I hope the city council and/or mayor get busy replacing that guy.

[Eric_L]

Unequal enforcement of the law is a disturbing pattern that is spreading in our country.

THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER! yes I was yelling. I have been telling this to my friend for months. This should stick in the craw of all of us, LEFT AND RIGHT.

[Clusterfrack]

THIS IS THE CRUX OF THE MATTER! yes I was yelling. I have been telling this to my friend for months. This should stick in the craw of all of us, LEFT AND RIGHT.

Honestly, the way our DA is prosecuting cases, I think running over the armed BLM rioters assaulting you would result in a murder charge, while if the rioters shot you they would get off on self-defense

[blues]

Unequal enforcement of the law is a disturbing pattern that is spreading in our country.

"Jim Crow" is being replaced with "Mr. Charlie".

[Eric_L]

Honestly, the way our DA is prosecuting cases, I think running over the armed BLM rioters assaulting you would result in a murder charge, while if the rioters shot you they would get off on self-defense

From what you all up there have shared, it does seem that way. It is DEEPLY disturbing.

[GyroF-16]

Honestly, the way our DA is prosecuting cases, I think running over the armed BLM rioters assaulting you would result in a murder charge, while if the rioters shot you they would get off on self-defense

That’s my fear in my AO as well.
So it would appear that being surrounded and threatened by armed protesters while in a vehicle is a no-win situation.
While I certainly hope to avoid ever being in such a mess, I can certainly imagine how someone could inadvertently find themselves there.

[Mark D]

Honestly, the way our DA is prosecuting cases, I think running over the armed BLM rioters assaulting you would result in a murder charge, while if the rioters shot you they would get off on self-defense

That's pretty much the definition of anarcho-tyranny: “anarchy (the failure of the state to enforce the laws) and, at the same time, tyranny — the enforcement of laws by the state for oppressive purposes.”

[AMC]

The violence and chaos in the streets serves the interests of those in power. Intimidating the law abiding with selective and unequal prosecution also serves the interests of those in power.

I have alluded to the coming problem...that anyone with eyes can see coming...in other threads. What happens when the law abiding (and I include cops here) openly realize that they can't win playing by the rule of law? What happens when someone is forced to defend themselves, and faced with unjust prosecution and ruin....decides to say "Fuck you. You're not arresting me."? Serious question, 'Cause I think we're about 1 or 2 bad incidents away from that at this point.

[JRB]

The violence and chaos in the streets serves the interests of those in power. Intimidating the law abiding with selective and unequal prosecution also serves the interests of those in power.

I have alluded to the coming problem...that anyone with eyes can see coming...in other threads. What happens when the law abiding (and I include cops here) openly realize that they can't win playing by the rule of law? What happens when someone is forced to defend themselves, and faced with unjust prosecution and ruin....decides to say "Fuck you. You're not arresting me."? Serious question, 'Cause I think we're about 1 or 2 bad incidents away from that at this point.

I don't think it's a 'Fuck you, you're not arresting me' but more of a 'If the Cops aren't allowed to do it, and I'm fucked for life anyway, I might as well take a lot of these ANTIFA scumbags with me'.

And I agree, we're a handful of these unjust and railroaded prosecutions away.

I am heartbroken for my country, and somehow I still hope and pray that we'll avoid this, even if for no other reason than the overwhelming majority of Americans most capable and effective at violence are also the ones most passionate about preserving peace.

[cheby]

Unequal enforcement of the law is a disturbing pattern that is spreading in our country.

This is not a new development. It's been obvious to anyone who pays attention to politics for a least 15 years. This is not just Portland even though it is more noticeable here. The cultural revolution is gaining steam. Buckle up. Vladimir Lenin called this " revolutionary justice". Same logic, same arguments, same ideology. They are winning.


https://youtu.be/2sDkYThhzDw

[Savage Hands]

That's pretty much the definition of anarcho-tyranny: “anarchy (the failure of the state to enforce the laws) and, at the same time, tyranny — the enforcement of laws by the state for oppressive purposes.”



Jesus, I had no idea that existed :eek:

[Mark D]

The violence and chaos in the streets serves the interests of those in power. Intimidating the law abiding with selective and unequal prosecution also serves the interests of those in power.

I have alluded to the coming problem...that anyone with eyes can see coming...in other threads. What happens when the law abiding (and I include cops here) openly realize that they can't win playing by the rule of law? What happens when someone is forced to defend themselves, and faced with unjust prosecution and ruin....decides to say "Fuck you. You're not arresting me."? Serious question, 'Cause I think we're about 1 or 2 bad incidents away from that at this point.

I think you underestimate the patience and respect for order possessed by law abiding people. Almost everyone will continue following the law, even it's applied unjustly and unevenly. Historically, that's what good folks do, even if another response might be considered appropriate.

[cheby]

I think you underestimate the patience and respect for order possessed by law abiding people. Almost everyone will continue following the law, even it's applied unjustly and unevenly. Historically, that's what good folks do, even if another response might be considered appropriate.

They are also called "Good Germans" historically.

[RJ]

I think you underestimate the patience and respect for order possessed by law abiding people. Almost everyone will continue following the law, even it's applied unjustly and unevenly. Historically, that's what good folks do, even if another response might be considered appropriate.

I sure hope you are right, honest to God I do.

But there are like 49% of the population that is really pissed off right now, and getting more sick and tired of this crap every day.

[AMC]

I think you underestimate the patience and respect for order possessed by law abiding people. Almost everyone will continue following the law, even it's applied unjustly and unevenly. Historically, that's what good folks do, even if another response might be considered appropriate.

I agree. Almost everyone. Almost.....until a bunch don't.

[blues]

I agree. Almost everyone. Almost.....until a bunch don't.

Agree.

The genie was let out of the bottle when this country decided to allow certifiable miscreants to fight the police and then reward them with subsequent sanctification.

(It's almost as if certain individuals can do nothing wrong.)

It ain't getting better anytime soon.

[blues]

71323

"And the best part is...we don't even have to lift a finger. They're doing it to themselves!"

[RevolverRob]

The only thing this thread has taught me is, with plate carriers and soft armor around, the only choice is to go straight for head shots.

Everybody should be working on their draw to 3" circle on the head as their main go-to for gun work now.

[blues]

The only thing this thread has taught me is, with plate carriers and soft armor around, the only choice is to go straight for head shots.

Everybody should be working on their draw to 3" circle on the head as their main go-to for gun work now.

And that, my friends, should be sufficient proof why pursuing a PhD is still relevant in today's society.

(And let's not forget those kneecaps.)

[Joe in PNG]

I'm mostly unfamiliar. I remember there being popular(?) displeasure with the Texas Rangers and them being disbanded, only to get called back to service when the good idea fairy didn't turn out the way they had hoped re: disbanding effective law enforcement.

Can you explain further for those of us unfamiliar with the specifics?

From the Texas Ranger Division (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Ranger_Division#History)Wiki article:

The breakdown of law and order on the Mexican side of the border, coupled with the lack of federal military forces, meant the Rangers were once again called upon to restore and maintain law and order, by any necessary means, which again led to excesses. However, the situation necessitated the appointment of hundreds of new special Rangers by the state, which neglected to carefully screen aspiring members. The Rangers were responsible for several incidents, ending in the January 28, 1918 massacre of the male population[23] (15 Mexican men and boys ranging in age from 16 to 72 years) of the tiny community of Porvenir, Texas, on the Mexican border in western Presidio County. Before the decade was over, thousands of lives were lost, Texans and Mexicans alike. In January 1919, an investigation launched by Texas lawmaker José Tomás Canales found that from 300 to 5,000 people, mostly of Hispanic descent, had been killed by Rangers from 1910 to 1919, and that members of the Rangers had been involved in many acts of brutality and injustice.[24] The Rangers were reformed by a resolution of the Legislature in 1919, which saw the special Ranger groups disbanded and a complaints system instituted.[25]
The Great Depression forced both the federal and state governments to cut down on personnel and funding of their organizations, and the number of commissioned officers was reduced to 45, with the only means of transportation afforded to Rangers being free railroad passes or using their personal horses. The agency was again damaged after supporting Governor Ross Sterling in his re-election campaign—after his opponent Miriam Amanda "Ma" Ferguson won, she proceeded to discharge all serving Rangers in 1933.


There's a bit more in the article, and a whole lot more in the book- which is pretty highly recommended.

[RevolverRob]

And that, my friends, should be sufficient proof why pursuing a PhD is still relevant in today's society.

(And let's not forget those kneecaps.)

Eh, just trying to take something pragmatic and optimistic from this thread. And all I could get was, "Well, it lets me know exactly what I need to prioritize in training."

I tend to agree with most of the sentiments expressed here. Having witnessed some of this shit fairly close first hand, I think the idea of getting your cowboy on with an AR is probably not very realistic. For a whole host of reasons. And never get out of the car.

That said, I do not think these ANTIFA punks are true believers. And if you're forced to put it to the test, find the lead agitator and put them down with authority and see if any of the other punks have the balls to follow up on their threats of violence.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I've spent a fair amount of time around folks like these pussies and they're real tough in a crowd, and real wimps in a fight. Armed with an rifle and a bunch of friends they're intimidating. But I bet they think twice when their buddy eats a bullet and his brains are leaking into his cut rate ballistic helmet.

Maybe I'm wrong but a gun fight between these types and citizens isn't going to be helping their optics and message.

[Totem Polar]

'Cause I think we're about 1 or 2 bad incidents away from that at this point.





And I agree, we're a handful of these unjust and railroaded prosecutions away.

We’re not there yet, but when we hit that handful of bad incidents/selective prosecutions, it will inevitably turn into a high profile L-shaped event. I don’t think anyone wants to see that. We need to get back to a place where the police can isolate and pick up protestors who block roads with plate rigs and arms after the fact, and bury them in a cell for a few years. Otherwise, we will get what we get; it’s just a matter of time.

[Clusterfrack]

Eh, just trying to take something pragmatic and optimistic from this thread. And all I could get was, "Well, it lets me know exactly what I need to prioritize in training."

I tend to agree with most of the sentiments expressed here. Having witnessed some of this shit fairly close first hand, I think the idea of getting your cowboy on with an AR is probably not very realistic. For a whole host of reasons. And never get out of the car.

That said, I do not think these ANTIFA punks are true believers. And if you're forced to put it to the test, find the lead agitator and put them down with authority and see if any of the other punks have the balls to follow up on their threats of violence.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I've spent a fair amount of time around folks like these pussies and they're real tough in a crowd, and real wimps in a fight. Armed with an rifle and a bunch of friends they're intimidating. But I bet they think twice when their buddy eats a bullet and his brains are leaking into his cut rate ballistic helmet.

Maybe I'm wrong but a gun fight between these types and citizens isn't going to be helping their optics and message.

These are BLM thugs. Antifa is just along for the ride on this one. They are rioting about the death of a gang member who had just shot two people. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the armed individuals actually have some experience with violent confrontations involving firearms.

[Hot Sauce]

That said, I do not think these ANTIFA punks are true believers. And if you're forced to put it to the test, find the lead agitator and put them down with authority and see if any of the other punks have the balls to follow up on their threats of violence.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I've spent a fair amount of time around folks like these pussies and they're real tough in a crowd, and real wimps in a fight. Armed with an rifle and a bunch of friends they're intimidating. But I bet they think twice when their buddy eats a bullet and his brains are leaking into his cut rate ballistic helmet.

Kenosha kid was followed and assaulted by a crowd of mostly unarmed and some armed folks right after splattering the most aggressive one's brain on the pavement when he tried to disarm him.


Maybe I'm wrong but a gun fight between these types and citizens isn't going to be helping their optics and message.

Again, Kenosha kid. Did anyone give a shit who instigated the gun fight? Did a large amount of citizenry suddenly turn their back on BLM? I saw no such effect.

[Totem Polar]

Did a large amount of citizenry suddenly turn their back on BLM? I saw no such effect.

Indeed.

“It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”
-Jonathan Swift

[RevolverRob]

Kenosha kid was followed and assaulted by a crowd of mostly unarmed and some armed folks right after splattering the most aggressive one's brain on the pavement when he tried to disarm him.

But he wasn't disarmed or killed.



Again, Kenosha kid. Did anyone give a shit who instigated the gun fight? Did a large amount of citizenry suddenly turn their back on BLM? I saw no such effect.

Rittenhouse had no business being there. And the narrative surrounding him AND his actions before and since make it non-comparable in many senses.

A better example would be the guy who shot someone in Seattle who was trying to climb into his window. Have we heard about him since? Not really.

[Hot Sauce]

But he wasn't disarmed or killed.You're missing the point. You said these types of people don't have the balls, especially when their buddies get splattered. Here's a nationally famous instance where that's clearly not the case. You're parlaying an assumption on par with "hit the biggest bully in the schoolyard and no one will mess with you." It sounds like wishcasting.



Rittenhouse had no business being there. And the narrative surrounding him AND his actions before and since make it non-comparable in many senses.

A better example would be the guy who shot someone in Seattle who was trying to climb into his window. Have we heard about him since? Not really.
Rittenhouse had no business being there, but neither did anyone who was out there.

I've never heard of the Seattle guy at all.

But, that's getting away from the focal point; You hypothesized that gunfights between these types and citizens isn't going to be helping their optics. And I'm telling you I haven't seen any evidence that support for BLM amongst on the fence normies has taken a hit as a result. If you got some such evidence, I'd love to see it.

[idahojess]

I think the Seattle guy is still facing a first degree assault charge.

Looks like he is not in the King County Jail anymore, anyway.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/gunman-at-seattle-protest-charged-with-first-degree-assault

[Oldherkpilot]

I think the Seattle guy is still facing a first degree assault charge.

Looks like he is not in the King County Jail anymore, anyway.

https://www.kuow.org/stories/gunman-at-seattle-protest-charged-with-first-degree-assault

Jumping through a car window at 40-50 mph ought to qualify as an Olympic event.

[RevolverRob]

You're missing the point. You said these types of people don't have the balls, especially when their buddies get splattered. Here's a nationally famous instance where that's clearly not the case. You're parlaying an assumption on par with "hit the biggest bully in the schoolyard and no one will mess with you." It sounds like wishcasting.



Rittenhouse had no business being there, but neither did anyone who was out there.

I've never heard of the Seattle guy at all.

But, that's getting away from the focal point; You hypothesized that gunfights between these types and citizens isn't going to be helping their optics. And I'm telling you I haven't seen any evidence that support for BLM amongst on the fence normies has taken a hit as a result. If you got some such evidence, I'd love to see it.

I think we're talking past each other.

I'm not saying the 'punch the biggest bully' will work. I'm saying my experience with folks adjacent to and of a similar mindset is, when confronted with violence, they tend to back down just a little bit. They attacked Rittenhouse after he shot someone. And yet, he got out, relatively, unscathed, because they were not willing to deal back in lethal violence. And the attacks after him shooting were more modest. The mindset you may have to have when dealing with these folks if threatened with deadly force is to shoot first and move. By shooting you're creating an egress opportunity, not a gunfight opportunity. It might turn into a gunfight, hopefully not.

Think of it as the ultimate OODA Loop reset for the crowd around you.

I should have been clearer it might get the crowd to back off, permanently, or it might get them to take a step back as they breathe in to come and kick your ass. Either way, you're working against a group that isn't as dedicated as jihadists. Despite what they preach, I don't think these folks are genuine true believers. Their interactions and response when confronted with violence seems to indicate that. Yes, they may try to overwhelm someone and attack them, but they aren't doubling down on their fight and turning it into a fight to the death.

ETA: In my, non-professional, opinion, being ordered by non-law enforcement to exit a vehicle at rifle point meets the definition in most places for reasonable fear of death or injury.

Everyone should do what they think is best in their circumstances. My philosophy isn't to stand around and argue the finer points of the law with people who are holding rifles on me. It is to find an opportunity to escape.
___

Regarding the political support. It's all over the place and I'm not sure the media or the world knows which way people lean. The Op-Ed pieces here in Chicago initially painted Rittenhouse as a thug looking for blood, but then backed down on that position when more and more video showed him being attacked. I've seen a lot of folks who view aggressive BLM with distaste enough that they're backing down from their support of them. Not all, mind you, and I'm sure some of them are backing down only to re-up in their support at a later date when they've forgotten what is going on.

What needs to go on is a counter-narrative. Frankly, you fight a 'war' like this, by galvanizing the people against it. I hate to say it, but getting BLM folks to burn a nursing home or a daycare will go a long way towards turning the public against them.

___

ETA 2: Should folks, who find themselves in the unenviable position of being charged with a crime after a self-defense shooting, begin to think about having bench trials instead of jury trials? Particularly in judicially 'unfriendly' areas? I think this is a travesty of justice in many respects. But I can't help but wonder if it's easier on appeal, if you're convicted and you have the high(er) knowledge of the law with a judge. Of course, if you draw an activist judge, this may be a bad idea.

[blues]

I think we're talking past each other.

I'm not saying the 'punch the biggest bully' will work. I'm saying my experience with folks adjacent to and of a similar mindset is, when confronted with violence, they tend to back down just a little bit. They attacked Rittenhouse after he shot someone. And yet, he got out, relatively, unscathed, because they were not willing to deal back in lethal violence. And the attacks after him shooting were more modest. The mindset you may have to have when dealing with these folks if threatened with deadly force is to shoot first and move. By shooting you're creating an egress opportunity, not a gunfight opportunity. It might turn into a gunfight, hopefully not.

Think of it as the ultimate OODA Loop reset for the crowd around you.

I should have been clearer it might get the crowd to back off, permanently, or it might get them to take a step back as they breathe in to come and kick your ass. Either way, you're working against a group that isn't as dedicated as jihadists. Despite what they preach, I don't think these folks are genuine true believers. Their interactions and response when confronted with violence seems to indicate that. Yes, they may try to overwhelm someone and attack them, but they aren't doubling down on their fight and turning it into a fight to the death.

...Snip...



Rob, you're a smart guy...but I think you're trying to resuscitate a losing argument.

I think you should have just admitted the point made by Hot Sauce and moved on...instead of going around in circles trying to justify yourself.

Just my opinion, though.

[LittleLebowski]

You are being obtuse. And he’s in Western Washington. Not Portland.

No, I wasn’t. I disagree with you believing third to fifth hand stuff you read online over direct reports from the ground, but maybe that will never bite you in the ass, hopefully. What I took issue with is you slipping in that Soros reference in there, so I called you on it. It’s not like the guy you used that on isn’t a stand up, intelligent, well known member that doesn’t promulgate BS; hence me taking umbrage with the Soros bullshit. Personally, I would have apologized in your place; but that’s me.

[Clusterfrack]

On his way home at 9:30pm after class, one of my martial arts buddies ended up driving into the middle of the George F anniversary BLM riot downtown Portland. Fortunately it was just getting started and he was able to turn off onto a side street and drive away before too many rioters noticed him. He felt it was a close call:

“I was driving to the Morrison Bridge through downtown and they were moving barricade fences into the street luckily they weren’t that organized yet most of them were all just on the sidewalks and I had to just go round some barricade fencing”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/26/george-floyd-anniversary-portland-police-declare-riot-make-5-arrests/7444778002/

[Moylan]

Glad he's OK.

[GyroF-16]

On his way home at 9:30pm after class, one of my martial arts buddies ended up driving into the middle of the George F anniversary BLM riot downtown Portland. Fortunately it was just getting started and he was able to turn off onto a side street and drive away before too many rioters noticed him. He felt it was a close call:

“I was driving to the Morrison Bridge through downtown and they were moving barricade fences into the street luckily they weren’t that organized yet most of them were all just on the sidewalks and I had to just go round some barricade fencing”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/26/george-floyd-anniversary-portland-police-declare-riot-make-5-arrests/7444778002/

Forgive my naïveté - but the “protesters” were placing barricade fencing in the streets? Or did I misunderstand, and it was the police?
If “protesters” are free to use dedicated equipment to block streets when they choose, society in that city has already given up too much in the role of “maintaining order”.
Maybe I’m just late to the game.

[Clusterfrack]

Forgive my naïveté - but the “protesters” were placing barricade fencing in the streets? Or did I misunderstand, and it was the police?
If “protesters” are free to use dedicated equipment to block streets when they choose, society in that city has already given up too much in the role of “maintaining order”.
Maybe I’m just late to the game.

BLM and Antifa rioters are using freely available barricades and other objects for their own purposes. There appears to be a significant level of planning involved.

[Lex Luthier]

BLM and Antifa rioters are using freely available barricades and other objects for their own purposes. There appears to be a significant level of planning involved.

And with that planning, a significant amount of involvement at some higher level of local Govt. I wonder who benefits, and how?

(I'm seeing quite similar stuff locally, as you know, so I am interested in your take.)

[Clusterfrack]

And with that planning, a significant amount of involvement at some higher level of local Govt. I wonder who benefits, and how?

(I'm seeing quite similar stuff locally, as you know, so I am interested in your take.)

Conspiracy theories require too much competence and trustworthiness for our local officials to pull off. I think the BLM and Antifa folks make some halfassed plans a few days before, and that’s about it.

[Totem Polar]

Conspiracy theories require too much competence and trustworthiness for our local officials to pull off. I think the BLM and Antifa folks make some halfassed plans a few days before, and that’s about it.

Even a half-assed plan still looks and fares pretty good against no plan—which is the alternative being pushed down from the local leaders.

Glad your bro was able to E&E. Sobering stuff. Especially aggregated along with Lex’s shot spotter AK-47 stuff.

No dull moments, it seems.

[Clusterfrack]

Glad your bro was able to E&E. Sobering stuff.

It was kind of funny because that eve we were working on surviving 3-on-1 beatdowns. If my body is any indication, my buddy was already well-bruised before he entered BLM territory.