Ratchet belts for carry 2021

[HeavyDuty]

My Wilderness Instructor’s Belt is getting pretty worn. I’ve been using leather ratchet belts for dress for a few years now (Mission, I think) and want to try something similar in nylon for EDC with jeans.

I’m thinking the Blade-Tech Ultimate Carry Belt in nylon. Any comments about this belt or suggestions?

[APS-PF]

I think those are made by Nextbelt? I have been using a Nextbelt for about 2 years now and love it. The amount of tightness I need to keep my pants from constantly dropping when carrying a double stack Glock causes indigestion when I'm seated. Very easy to just open the belt a few clicks when I sit in the vehicle and then tighten a few when I get out.

[HeavyDuty]

I think those are made by Nextbelt? I have been using a Nextbelt for about 2 years now and love it. The amount of tightness I need to keep my pants from constantly dropping when carrying a double stack Glock causes indigestion when I'm seated. Very easy to just open the belt a few clicks when I sit in the vehicle and then tighten a few when I get out.

I’m not sure - I didn’t see anything about who makes it. Good feedback, thanks!

[beenalongtime]

The leather ones are for sure made by Nexbelt. There is an older thread on ratchet belts that might be of interest. I went with the leather Bladetech, because I found it a bit cheaper then off the manufactures site.

[Mark D]

For years I've been skeptical of ratchet belts. Instead I used leather belts from reputable holster makers or nylon "tactical" belts like Wilderness.

But about a year ago I purchased a 1.5" ratchet belt from Kore, and I'm very happy with it. I've worn it daily for about a year, and it's held up very well. It has a few scratches on the buckle, but otherwise it's 100%. I think it's this one:

https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-edc-gear/products/x4-buckle-black-tactical-belt

Despite the name, it doesn't look tactical ninja at all. I'll probably buy a 1.25" dress belt from the same company if/when I return to the office.

[Flamingo]

I think the need for a gunbelt is gone, at least for me, with the PHLster Enigma. I have a JMCK Enigma Shell on the Enigma and I carry my RDS G19 with no weight issue.

[757_Magnum]

Check out the Carbon Tactics Cipher. It's not technically a ratcheting belt, but is similar in function. I got in on the Kickstarter when I was looking for something that adjusted as easily as my Mean Gene Aegis, but is lower profile and water/sweat resistant. The magnetic latch is pretty cool once you get used to how it unhooks. I've been happy with mine, but I accidentally ordered two of the double layer webbing instead of the biothane.

[Larry T]

I wasn't keen on Kore for a long time but I got sick and tired of dealing with velcro belts and all the hype from gun industry celebrities hawking yet another velcro belt pretty much exactly like all the others. I tried a Kore leather model and knew I'd never go back to a velcro belt again. It was great for semi-dressier needs but I didn't really like the leather version for AIWB EDC. I got a "tactical nylon" model with the smaller AIWB buckle and love it. It's sturdier than it needs to be for AIWB (rated at 8 lbs) but I haven't found it too stiff or uncomfortable. If they made a nylon model without the internal stiffener I think it would be perfect for AIWB.

[vcdgrips]

Not a fan of ratcheting belts. Certainly not a fan when they are made in Asia and often as expensive or relative to comparable Made in USA offerings.

For an AIWB belt with jeans, presuming a cover garment, the offerings of Wilderness and Mastermind Tactics are both superlative.

I was not familiar with the Cipher brand until I looked at it re this thread. Made in the USA is always a good thing. The "hook" and "cti" buckles seem to be quite low profile.

If I did not already have 5 Mastermind belts, two old school Maxpedition Liger belts, a 5.11 homage of the Liger and 2 Wilderness Frequent Flyer Belts already, I suspect I would give one of the Ciphers a go.

[psalms144.1]

I bought a pair of Kore belts last fall - one OD nylon "tactical" and one black leather for suit wear. 7 months later, they've both gotten worn MAYBE a half dozen times, total.

The nylon belt doesn't work for me when hauling a CCO 1911 with a couple of 7 round mags or a G19 with one spare mag, flashlight, and lightweight cuffs. Way too saggy for that load. The leather model is even worse, though it looks OK in dress pants.

For hauling anything heavier than a lightweight polymer pistol, I'm a Volund Atlas fan. In fact, it's the only belt I wear when I go to work, UNLESS I have to wear grown up clothes to go to court of provide training of a "professional" audience. Off duty, it's a Wilderness five-stitch Frequent Flyer pretty much all the time.

[TGS]

The Kore belts work well if you're using Perry suspenders, which aren't typically used much by CCWers.

Not so much otherwise, as noted above.

[HeavyDuty]

Ok, Kore is off my list. I’m leaning hard to the Boxer Tactical Apogee right now.

[DacoRoman]

I’ve got a Kore carry belt with the synthetic style front and I love it. I’ve been wearing it around 6 months now.

Plenty stiff for up to a G17 AIWB and reload on the belt OWB. I don’t carry anything heavier than a G17 though, and mostly a G19. Haven’t tried OWB carry, and don’t plan to. It may struggle with OWB carry and a heavy gun.

The ratchet system has been a marvelous revelation.
I wear the buckle at the 11 o clock and it is so easy to loosen/tighten surreptitiously, that it’s made my carrying life tremendously easier especially when driving or sitting down for dinner. It really is fantastic how it works.

It seems very sturdy, with no significant wear thus far, but it’s only been 6 months. But I’m totally convinced regarding the practicality of a ratchet system. Even if my Kore falls apart next month, I’d be getting another one until I found a more sturdy iteration, but it seems really solid so far.

[Phred]

Ok, Kore is off my list. I’m leaning hard to the Boxer Tactical Apogee right now.

I’m not familiar Boxer Tactical, so I just looked at their website. I’ve been considering a ratchet style belt, and like the fact that they are USA made. Does anyone have any first hand experience with them?

[Hot Sauce]

I’m not familiar Boxer Tactical, so I just looked at their website. I’ve been considering a ratchet style belt, and like the fact that they are USA made. Does anyone have any first hand experience with them?I do, and I mentioned that to the OP over PM.

Tried a Kore before it was pretty underwhelmed at the build quality. It did look nice at first, I'll give it that. Traded it away.

The Boxer Tactical ratchet system is beefy, and the track is deep grooves on the back side of the biothane belt material. The biothane material is comparable to First Spear Line One belt. Some flexibility but rigid vertically to support the weight of gun and tools. I liked it overall.

I ended up transitioning to mostly using Mastermind belts, but if I were once again interested in going ratchet-style, Boxer is the only good option I know of so far.

[Phred]

Thanks! I’m currently using a Mastermind Tactics belt, and it works well. I’d just like to try something different, and the ratchet style belt seems like it may be a little easier to adjust. Plus, I like the idea of having the tail of the belt facing toward my left side, as opposed to having the tail double back to my right with the mastermind belt (or The Wilderness belt that preceded it).

[757_Magnum]

If I did not already have 5 Mastermind belts, two old school Maxpedition Liger belts, a 5.11 homage of the Liger and 2 Wilderness Frequent Flyer Belts already, I suspect I would give one of the Ciphers a go.

If you or anyone else following this thread is interested, Carbon Tactics is having a 25% off sale this weekend with coupon code BANANA. I am not affiliated with them in any way, but just like their gear and service. I also have their Hook belt and, prior to getting the Cipher, wore it in the summer with hybrid board shorts.

[WobblyPossum]

Thanks! I’m currently using a Mastermind Tactics belt, and it works well. I’d just like to try something different, and the ratchet style belt seems like it may be a little easier to adjust. Plus, I like the idea of having the tail of the belt facing toward my left side, as opposed to having the tail double back to my right with the mastermind belt (or The Wilderness belt that preceded it).

Why not thread your belt in the other direction so the tail doubles back over itself and goes towards your left?

[Wyoming Shooter]

I am pleased with my Kore ratcheting belt. Typical load is Sig P320 OWB and 1 spare mag.

[JAD]

How do you carry, HD?

[HeavyDuty]

How do you carry, HD?

Lately I’m back to OWB due to irritation with a surgical scar, but traditionally IWB Kydex at 3-4:00. I’ve experimented a little with AIWB, but that damn scar adds to the discomfort.

[rob_s]

Looking at ordering from Kore today. Anybody have an alternate solution in the same vein that I should look at?

[vcdgrips]

Why would you order a pot metal hardware made in China belt when better can be had nearly the same or less, to include brand/models in this very thread?

[rob_s]

Why would you order a pot metal hardware made in China belt when better can be had nearly the same or less, to include brand/models in this very thread?

and what are those, exactly?

you said earlier in the thread "Not a fan of ratcheting belts." which IMO pretty much disqualifies you from this conversation.

Unsure why so many people on the internut always feel the need to reply to "I'd like a kumquat" with "kumquats are stupid, you need an orange".

if you're going to suggest an orange, at least first (a) qualify your opinion on kumquats and then (b) suggest the best kumquat should one insist on same.

[rob_s]

Speaking of internuts, since so few people seem to take a second to put links to the stuff they're talking about anymore...

Ratcheting
Kore EDC Gear (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-edc-gear) (1.5" width)
Kore Classic (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-classic-gear)(1&3/8" width)
Nexbelt EDC (https://www.nexbelt.com/collections/edc-belts) (1.5" width)
Nexbelt fashion belts (https://www.nexbelt.com/collections/edc-belts) (1&3/8" width)
Blade-Tech Ultimate Carry (https://blade-tech.com/products/ucb?variant=17785803505754) (Nexbelt?)
Boxer Apogee (https://boxertactical.com/products/apogee-belt-1-5)

non-ratcheting
Carbon Tactics (https://www.carbontactics.com/collections/cipher)
Volund Atlas (https://volundgearworks.com/product/1-5-atlas-cobra-belt/)
Wilderness Belts (https://www.thewilderness.com/belts/)
Wilderness Frequent Flier (https://www.maxpedition.com/products/1-25-liger-gun-belt?variant=31909408593)
Mastermind Tactics (https://www.mastermindtactics.com/shop?category=Belts)
Liger (https://www.maxpedition.com/products/1-25-liger-gun-belt?variant=31909408593)


Phlster Enigma (https://www.phlsterholsters.com/shop/phlster-enigma/) (how this relates I have no idea, but it's mentioned in the thread)

[vcdgrips]

Um no. You publish in a public forum, not DQed from weighing in. Don't like it. Don't post up. I am completely comfortable letting the readers on this forum decide who carries the day on a given point of discussion/contention, to include anything you have ever posted up on to date.

I will be more clear for you as I apparently was not. I commit to writing more clearly when you ask for an opinion re your prospective gear choices.

I am not a fan of the KORE ratcheting belt because it has pot metal made in China hardware. The company has no transparency whatsoever re country of origin yet charges 60-70 dollar for a belt with craptastic hardware made with craptastic leather.
50 so odd questions down in their "FAQs," they essentially say they manufacture in asia because it cost 2-3x more than to do it in the USA. We know thats BS because Boxer is doing a similar product for 85.00 which means KORE is simply padding a margin with a decidedly inferior product as evidenced by its relatively meager 1 year warranty. IMHO, the whole ratcheting system is ok at best for golf pants and sucks it for carrying serious gear relative to old school holes in the belt and the hardware used by Wilderness, Maxpedition and Graith/Mastermind Tactics.

https://www.koreessentials.com/pages/faqs

The Boxer brand belt would be the best choice by far both in terms of materials, warranty and country of origin.

https://boxertactical.com/products/apogee-belt-1-5
https://boxertactical.com/pages/warranty

But hey, you work hard for the money. Buy what you what you what and let us know how it works out for you.

[Mirolynmonbro]

The boxer tactical buckle is way too big to me to even consider using it

I use KORE belts. Everyday it's their leather with the appendix buckle, I think it's called X7. On days when I shoot IDPA I switch to a nylon belt with the appendix buckle

Nexbelt has an appendix carry buckle too but I haven't tried it yet

[HeavyDuty]

I’m a little unsure about the bulk of the Boxer buckle, too.

I’ve had many belts with buckles made from “pot metal” (a very vague term, usually used to disparage) and have never had a buckle fail. For me this would be a belt used to keep my jeans from falling down around my ankles and stably carry a pistol, magazine and phone. I wouldn’t be using it to clip in when I’m a space shuttle door gunner. A die cast buckle would be sufficient for me.

[rob_s]

The boxer tactical buckle is way too big to me to even consider using it

I use KORE belts. Everyday it's their leather with the appendix buckle, I think it's called X7. On days when I shoot IDPA I switch to a nylon belt with the appendix buckle

Nexbelt has an appendix carry buckle too but I haven't tried it yet

Any downside to using the X7 for non-appendix carry, or even no-carry, that you can think of?

[corneileous]

I have a KORE Essentials belt and it works just fine.


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[Irelander]

The boxer tactical buckle is way too big to me to even consider using it

I use KORE belts. Everyday it's their leather with the appendix buckle, I think it's called X7. On days when I shoot IDPA I switch to a nylon belt with the appendix buckle

Nexbelt has an appendix carry buckle too but I haven't tried it yet

Just curious what makes the X7 so great for AIWB carry.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Any downside to using the X7 for non-appendix carry, or even no-carry, that you can think of?

I can't think of a downside. It's functionally the same just not as long as the other ones


Just curious what makes the X7 so great for AIWB carry.

It's just shorter than the other buckles so with some pants I can wear it at the front instead of having to offset the buckle to a side belt loop. Even when wearing it to the side it's still smaller than the other buckles and I can reach in my pockets easier

I think it's better for IDPA tac reloads because there is less buckle for the mag to get caught on. I stow mags in my waistband at 11oclock

[rob_s]

I have a KORE Essentials belt and it works just fine.


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Is that the non-EDC 1&3/8” wide version?

How’s it work for carry, if you are carrying with it, and what are you carrying?

[corneileous]

Is that the non-EDC 1&3/8” wide version?

How’s it work for carry, if you are carrying with it, and what are you carrying?

It’s the inch and a half carry version. Although it’s not quite as stiff as my woven nylon Volund Gearworks belt but it’s still plenty stiff enough and carry’s just fine as the other one, I just don’t wear it or the other one much because the only time I carry OWB strong-side in a pancake holster is when it’s too cold to wear shorts on my own personal time. As long as it’s warm enough to wear shorts or whenever I’m at seated at work regardless of the season, I pocket carry but to further answer your question, I can carry either of my two full-size Beretta PX4s just as easily as my little compact Springfield XDE.

The only reason why I don’t carry more often that way is I guess it’s just because of my body shape that keeps me from not being able to have a belt on so tight to hold everything up. That, and when I’m at work, a gun belt just gets far too uncomfortable between the width of the belt, the stiffness of the belt and the size of the buckle. The buckle is tiny on my Volund but the belt’s width and stiffness still aren’t very comfortable when you have a gut….. not sure if skinny people or people with much smaller midsections would still have this problem or not… LOL.


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[Larry T]

Interesting interactions. Good examples of people being angry because everyone else doesn't see things like they do. "pot metal"... "better options (translation - "it's what I like")" and more. I've been carrying a long time. I own multiple versions of Wilderness, 511, Bigfoot, Graith / MM, Anson (gunbelt version), and Kore.

I got tired of dealing with velcro and regardless of the gun community celebrities who endorse specific brands, I found all the velcro belts similar in performance for me. They all did the job about the same. I reluctantly bought a Kore leather and immediately decided I'd never go back to velcro again. I then bought the KORE nylon with the X7 small buckle and have loved the ratchet ease of adjustment. If KORE made the same nylon belt minus the internal stiffener (basically the same as the nylon on the velcro belts) that would be perfect.

As for "made in the USA", all things being equal, I would prefer to buy something 100% made in America, but let's be real. My wife's Hyundai was built in Montgomery Alabama and the Kia I'm considering is made in West Point Georgia. My last Ford had an engine built in Canada, electronics from Asia, and the whole thing was assembled in Mexico. And the American-owned Hyundai dealership we bought from employs over 600 Americans.

[Hot Sauce]

FWIW, when I wore the Boxer, I always pushed the buckles to the side close to the hip and it wasn't much of a problem as far as it's bulk. YMMV. I do the same when using a regular buckle belt for AWIB.

The Kore belts' track/buckle system is also not super sturdy. Does that mean you can't successfully carry with it for a while? Not necessarily, but I'd rather not.

It's apparent if you read the thread that half the people seem to say it's an iffy piece of equipment, and the other half say "well... it works for me!"

Crowdsourcing at it's best.

[Larry T]

Speaking of Boxer - they went "out of business" in 2018 and didn't re-emerge until 2020 when another company bought Boxer from the original owner, according to their website. Seems that gun belts are a tough item to solely float a company's boat with these days. We've seen some of our favorite belt companies either close or morph into a new or old label (Graith / Mastermind) or companies just stop making belts (Ox Creek Tactical). Company long-term viability should factor in somewhere.

[corneileous]

Interesting interactions. Good examples of people being angry because everyone else doesn't see things like they do. "pot metal"... "better options (translation - "it's what I like")" and more. I've been carrying a long time. I own multiple versions of Wilderness, 511, Bigfoot, Graith / MM, Anson (gunbelt version), and Kore.

I got tired of dealing with velcro and regardless of the gun community celebrities who endorse specific brands, I found all the velcro belts similar in performance for me. They all did the job about the same. I reluctantly bought a Kore leather and immediately decided I'd never go back to velcro again. I then bought the KORE nylon with the X7 small buckle and have loved the ratchet ease of adjustment. If KORE made the same nylon belt minus the internal stiffener (basically the same as the nylon on the velcro belts) that would be perfect.

As for "made in the USA", all things being equal, I would prefer to buy something 100% made in America, but let's be real. My wife's Hyundai was built in Montgomery Alabama and the Kia I'm considering is made in West Point Georgia. My last Ford had an engine built in Canada, electronics from Asia, and the whole thing was assembled in Mexico. And the American-owned Hyundai dealership we bought from employs over 600 Americans.

Good post, man.

I have my thoughts but all in all, there’s just no need to be like that. I caught all sorts of hell in a discussion I posted just simply asking about gun belt recommendations but let’s just say several people were unhappy with which belt I chose but shit, there ain’t no need in getting upset about it. People are going to have opinions even if they do get tend to get a little bit carried away presenting them.

But I’m curious… And no, for the others that might read this, I’m not asking a thing about quality, price or anything else, I’m just curious about how well it works because contrary to what I believe a lot of other people’s beliefs are, I don’t have a thing at all wrong against that wilderness five stitch belt that was heavily recommended in my thread and in this one but I just wasn’t crazy about the buckle, nor was I crazy about the unused part of the belt having to rely on a piece of Velcro to hold it tucked into the body but other than that, The reason I chose the KORE over the wilderness was because I liked and actually DO like the ratcheting system. I didn’t buy that one just to purposely piss people off… LOL.

But AnyWho, how do you like that KORE belt over the wilderness belt? I’m strictly curious.


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[vcdgrips]

Larry T

"As for "made in the USA", all things being equal, I would prefer to buy something 100% made in America, but let's be real. My wife's Hyundai was built in Montgomery Alabama and the Kia I'm considering is made in West Point Georgia. My last Ford had an engine built in Canada, electronics from Asia, and the whole thing was assembled in Mexico. And the American-owned Hyundai dealership we bought from employs over 600 Americans.

S. Korea nor Mexico represent existential threats to to US interests around the world. Not remotely an apple to apple comparison relative to USA/PRC.

"Company long-term viability should factor in somewhere."

I concur. Ergo the default recommendation by many re Wilderness belts given how long they have been in business. There are multiple traditional hole in belt leather companies in that boat as well.


Bottom line: You want to put money into a Govt (PRC) that is decidedly against our interests and is systematically trying to eliminate a race of people (Uyghurs). Rock on. I will take a pass. Particularly when the product is often inferior and is not good value. I have and will gladly spend more even when "all things being equal" to buy made in the USA and elsewhere.

[corneileous]

FWIW, when I wore the Boxer, I always pushed the buckles to the side close to the hip and it wasn't much of a problem as far as it's bulk. YMMV. I do the same when using a regular buckle belt for AWIB.

The Kore belts' track/buckle system is also not super sturdy. Does that mean you can't successfully carry with it for a while? Not necessarily, but I'd rather not.

It's apparent if you read the thread that half the people seem to say it's an iffy piece of equipment, and the other half say "well... it works for me!"

Crowdsourcing at it's best.

I guess just because I have an “overhang” and being seated all the time, it doesn’t matter if I slide the buckle to one side or the other, it still causes discomfort even with but not so much with my lizard tail belt.

But with the track system on the Kore belt being made out of plastic, that’s where I would say the weak point is rather than in the “pot metal” buckle but you’re right, it’s hard to read reviews and opinions when some say it’s good and some say it’s not. It’s just like, too many people when they give their opinion, they’re trying to apply themselves to you and make the decision on what you’re gonna like, what’s going to work and what’s not going to work over what you think will work, not work or like yourself.


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[Larry T]

... But AnyWho, how do you like that KORE belt over the wilderness belt? I’m strictly curious.


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I've used a couple of Wilderness FF belts. The nylon is as good as anything else I've seen, but like I said earlier, the velcro was the limiting factor for me. Once in place, it never separated and the FF buckle surprisingly provided better hold by itself than some of the other velcro belts I used. One negative for me and the FF belt was that I had a stitch break and the piece of hook (sharp part of velcro) broke loose. I contacted Wilderness and they told me that I could ship the belt to them (~$10 my expense) and IF they determined it wasn't my fault, they would fix it ship it back on their dime. So I just took the belt to a shoe shop and still spent $ to have them fix it. So my $50 belt became a $60+ belt. Could have happened to any of my other belts I guess.

As for the Kore nylon, I carry a G17 or 19 AIWB plus a light and spare mag on the other side. I've been using this belt for about a year and the ratchet teeth and buckle look the same as they did the first day. I don't expect or even care if the belt lasts 10 years. I expect belts and holsters to age and wear out eventually - I see them as "semi-consumable".

My feelings aren't hurt if others don't like my gear selections and I'm not seeking their validation. I value experienced input but ultimately we all should try stuff and make our own decisions for our reasons, not someone else's.

[Larry T]

Larry T

"As for "made in the USA", all things being equal, I would prefer to buy something 100% made in America, but let's be real. My wife's Hyundai was built in Montgomery Alabama and the Kia I'm considering is made in West Point Georgia. My last Ford had an engine built in Canada, electronics from Asia, and the whole thing was assembled in Mexico. And the American-owned Hyundai dealership we bought from employs over 600 Americans.

S. Korea nor Mexico represent existential threats to to US interests around the world. Not remotely an apple to apple comparison relative to USA/PRC.

"Company long-term viability should factor in somewhere."

I concur. Ergo the default recommendation by many re Wilderness belts given how long they have been in business. There are multiple traditional hole in belt leather companies in that boat as well.


Bottom line: You want to put money into a Govt (PRC) that is decidedly against our interests and is systematically trying to eliminate a race of people (Uyghurs). Rock on. I will take a pass. Particularly when the product is often inferior and is not good value. I have and will gladly spend more even when "all things being equal" to buy made in the USA and elsewhere.
Yeah, I want to put money into the PRC because they hate us. You caught me. Tell you what - when you scrub your house of all things made by the PRC, get back to me. If you have in fact done that, share with the class how you did it. In the meantime, let's take it down a notch and stop playing like the issue is all black or white when we know that everywhere other than internet forums it's really a hundred shades of gray.

[vcdgrips]

Point taken Larry T. Here is me at half a notch down.

While I cannot say I have done a complete scrub, it is well under way. Between Spring Cleaning 2020, COVID and needing to replace/built up certain gear ( Tools/Cooking Items/Utensils etc), I have had the time and money to move away from many PRC manufactured items.

Step 1: To paraphrase Marie Kondo-release things that no longer bring you joy. When you look around your house/shop/car etc. an inordinate amount of get me done, intersection of quality and value items are made in the PRC. Get rid of them. You probably did not need them anyway. If you did, they are probably in the last quadrille of their lifespan so replace with something better that is not from the PRC. (This is pretty black and white)

Step 2: (Most effective strategy to date) Simply decide from this point forward, you are not buying anything made in the PRC when a remotely viable alternative is avail. at anything approaching the same price. (This is pretty black and white). Most big box stores/brands make things in multiple countries. I happen to like Puma and Adidas shoes. I now just make sure the ones I buy are not made in the PRC. When my Xr Apple iPhone needs to be replaced, it will be by another Apple. This time, I will only accept one that was not made in the PRC. I have loved the Arcteryx and Salomon pieces of gear I have owned. As the company is now PRC owned, I will not be buying from them any longer. Period.

Step 3: Affirmatively pivot toward a Buy USA/Buy Quality Cry Once mentality going forward. They are related but not exactly the same as a best item's country of origin is not always the USA i.e. Aimpoint/Sweden. (There is some gray here.) This step does mean you will spend more money. Will my 30.00 Made in the USA Nordic Ware cookie sheet last 33% longer than a made in China Cusinart Cookie sheets at 20.00. Maybe not. I am still spending the money for the made in the USA one. I acknowledge at a certain point, for some, this strategy has financial implications. I know when my kids were younger, when buying new, I was almost exclusively an intersection of quality/value kind of guy.

Step 4: Ebay/Thriftstores/Craigslist/FB Marketplace/Garage sales can all be great sources of some superlative gear that is not made in the PRC.

Step 5: Affirmatively share your thoughts/convictions/opinions with others.

Be safe and well.

DB

[Hot Sauce]

I don't expect or even care if the belt lasts 10 years. I expect belts and holsters to age and wear out eventually - I see them as "semi-consumable".


I suppose it depends on the materials. I don't expect to see my biothane belts wearing out from general use.

The velcro on nylon belts wears eventually. Leather does as well, but frankly only gets more comfortable and molded. I've not had a purpose-built leather gun belt wear so much that it becomes useless.

If I could go back in time, I'd probably recommend to my younger self to just pick one do-all belt like a First Spear and stop chasing the perfect belt.

I'm not sure that the small gradations in adjustability, function, comfort have made a substantial enough difference for me in the long run. Not once I figured out that the old skool advice of having a gun belt stiffened with carbon nano-tubes was probably overkill until I start doing EVAs out of the hatch of the International Space Station.

[Larry T]

Point taken Larry T. Here is me at half a notch down.

While I cannot say I have done a complete scrub, it is well under way. Between Spring Cleaning 2020, COVID and needing to replace/built up certain gear ( Tools/Cooking Items/Utensils etc), I have had the time and money to move away from many PRC manufactured items.

Step 1: To paraphrase Marie Kondo-release things that no longer bring you joy. When you look around your house/shop/car etc. an inordinate amount of get me done, intersection of quality and value items are made in the PRC. Get rid of them. You probably did not need them anyway. If you did, they are probably in the last quadrille of their lifespan so replace with something better that is not from the PRC. (This is pretty black and white)

Step 2: (Most effective strategy to date) Simply decide from this point forward, you are not buying anything made in the PRC when a remotely viable alternative is avail. at anything approaching the same price. (This is pretty black and white). Most big box stores/brands make things in multiple countries. I happen to like Puma and Adidas shoes. I now just make sure the ones I buy are not made in the PRC. When my Xr Apple iPhone needs to be replaced, it will be by another Apple. This time, I will only accept one that was not made in the PRC. I have loved the Arcteryx and Salomon pieces of gear I have owned. As the company is now PRC owned, I will not be buying from them any longer. Period.

Step 3: Affirmatively pivot toward a Buy USA/Buy Quality Cry Once mentality going forward. They are related but not exactly the same as a best item's country of origin is not always the USA i.e. Aimpoint/Sweden. (There is some gray here.) This step does mean you will spend more money. Will my 30.00 Made in the USA Nordic Ware cookie sheet last 33% longer than a made in China Cusinart Cookie sheets at 20.00. Maybe not. I am still spending the money for the made in the USA one. I acknowledge at a certain point, for some, this strategy has financial implications. I know when my kids were younger, when buying new, I was almost exclusively an intersection of quality/value kind of guy.

Step 4: Ebay/Thriftstores/Craigslist/FB Marketplace/Garage sales can all be great sources of some superlative gear that is not made in the PRC.

Step 5: Affirmatively share your thoughts/convictions/opinions with others.

Be safe and well.

DB
We are on similar pages but it's tricky. Example - I have been involved in various strength training endeavors for 40 years and when the gyms shut down due to Covid I was shut down. People scrambled to buy gym equipment for garages and basements and supply went to zero. The most well-known company is Rogue Fitness based in Ohio. They lean hard on their "Made In The USA" though they also have a substantial amount of products imported from Chinese factories.

Two other companies - Titan Fitness and REP Fitness make decent equipment but almost all their stuff is made in China. Some would argue that Rogue stuff was better simply because it might have been made in Ohio but in functional reality the Titan and REP serves the same purpose for half to 2/3 the price of Rogue.

I wish the biggest problem in America is where stuff was made, but that's a whole other discussion. I share your general position on this, and when I can turn the knob on the door to the discussion, I'm prepared to share WHY I believe WHAT I believe. I just try not to kick the door down to force a conversation.

[vcdgrips]

HS said:

"I've not had a purpose-built leather gun belt wear so much that it becomes useless."

Concur. I have an Ernie Hill Horsehide 1.5 inch gun belt I purchased in the Fall of 1992. More than functional today. Indeed, It would look downright boho chic if I could polish and shine it back up without it shedding "color" onto clothing.

[vcdgrips]

Larry T says:

"Two other companies - Titan Fitness and REP Fitness make decent equipment but almost all their stuff is made in China. Some would argue that Rogue stuff was better simply because it might have been made in Ohio but in functional reality the Titan and REP serves the same purpose for half to 2/3 the price of Rogue."

The question really becomes: what are your principles worth? I get that it is a much tougher call when we are talking about 3 and 4 figure stuff and the price dif is 50% with little to no quality diff v.
900% between a 9.99 Made in the USA Chanellock Screwdriver and a .99 special at the local hardware store where the quality diff is often immediately apparent.

REP is very transparent re country of origin and rationale for same. My response would be that I would expend maximum effort to find comparable used Non PRC manufactured gear so the value proposition would be similar. If I was unable to do that, I would like to think that I would take a pass on the REP stuff and make due.

I anticipate this issue when I replace my iPhone. I may end up spending more for a model that is not made in the PRC and way more phone than I need or less but get less performance. It is my fervent hope that what I am not doing is buying one made in the PRC.

[Gadfly]

I had/have a NEXT belt ratcheting nylon belt. Meh.

I liked the concept, but the plastic notches are not that deep or strong. I found I would tighten it down, and then bend over and it would “pop” and loosen by an inch. Not every time, but a few times a week. I did not trust it with an OWB holster.

It is fine for casual use, I just would not trust it for weight or hard use.

I have several friends who have NEXt belts and they say it never loosens, so maybe I got a dud. Or maybe they don’t do anything athletic in theirs. Don’t know….

[PNWTO]

To preface, I have several Graith belts that are my go-tos. But I have bought several NexBelts (sp?) and, while I like the form and fit, none have lasted more than a year without some sort of stitching failure. The most recent version I have is from 2019 so hopefully durability has improved.

[Larry T]

... REP is very transparent re country of origin and rationale for same. My response would be that I would expend maximum effort to find comparable used Non PRC manufactured gear so the value proposition would be similar. If I was unable to do that, I would like to think that I would take a pass on the REP stuff and make due.

If you tried to buy gym equipment starting back in mid 2020 even up to now (on certain pieces), you'd find that "making do" meant "doing without". And as for FB Marketplace or Craigslist, every piece of available gym equipment that would have sold for $300 a year earlier was being (or tried to be) sold for 4 or 5 times what it was worth.

My fellow Americans had no problem hoarding equipment or getting lucky enough to find inventory from REP, Titan, Rogue, Sorinex, etc and then trying to flip the stuff for 3-5 times what they paid for it. That may be good business, capitalism at work, supply and demand, or even the American Way. Maybe scalping gym equipment isn't the same as scalping food or medicine, but if I need something for my family, I'm not paying double or triple the price just on principle. Let's each educate our conscience and then follow it. I don't need or expect others to see it my way. I trust they think it through and do what they need to do for their reasons, not mine.

[BobLoblaw]

I had one of these a few years ago (Next Belt I think) and it lasted a couple months at best. The faux leather delaminated and the ratchet trough teeth begun to wear down then one of the screws broke out of the buckle and into the trash it went. I'm not a fan of velcro either as it has a cheap sensation that reminds me of a kid's wallet but those ratcheting belts are like the fidget spinners of belts. For non-velcro, I choose between the Master Mind D ring, leather, First Spear biothane, and Ares Aegis. I wear the Master Mind D ring the most.

[HeavyDuty]

Looking at ordering from Kore today. Anybody have an alternate solution in the same vein that I should look at?

Rob, did you end up ordering? I have a nylon X7 in my cart right now and am seriously tempted.

My concern with Kore is some of the comments here about a lack of stiffness, I carry mostly OWB and am used to a Wilderness with stiffener. I’m wondering if I should try the Apogee instead.

[rob_s]

Rob, did you end up ordering? I have a nylon X7 in my cart right now and am seriously tempted.

My concern with Kore is some of the comments here about a lack of stiffness, I carry mostly OWB and am used to a Wilderness with stiffener. I’m wondering if I should try the Apogee instead.

Hitting "submit" on the order right now!

73628

[HeavyDuty]

Hitting "submit" on the order right now!

73628

Ok, I think I’ll hold off and see what you think. I’m particularly concerned about a few of the nylon belt stiffness comments, but I’m not wearing a Batbelt - just a OWB Glock and an offside mag and phone.

[rob_s]

Ok, I think I’ll hold off and see what you think. I’m particularly concerned about a few of the nylon belt stiffness comments, but I’m not wearing a Batbelt - just a OWB Glock and an offside mag and phone.

Current plan is to strap on the G19 in a JMCK OWB 1 (https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/OWB.html) for around the yard working on odds and ends so I should be able to offer some feedback in that regard.

[corneileous]

Rob, did you end up ordering? I have a nylon X7 in my cart right now and am seriously tempted.

My concern with Kore is some of the comments here about a lack of stiffness, I carry mostly OWB and am used to a Wilderness with stiffener. I’m wondering if I should try the Apogee instead.

For whatever it’s worth, my Kore Essentials belt is pretty stiff. As I mentioned earlier, it’s not quite as stiff as my Volund belt is but it’s still pretty stiff enough to where you can hold the belt in your hands, buckle it, then grab the buckle and hold it out at arms length and the belt still pretty much holds it shape without much droop at all.

Even though my other one is in fact a little stiffer, when I tried both belts at different times with my full-size PX4 45 and my compact Springfield XDE and smaller PX4 compact 9mm, I really couldn’t feel a difference in support. They both supported the weight great but I still had to have both belts tighter than what most people would consider reasonable to hold everything up.


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[mrozowjj]

I bought a few Nextbelts like 5-6 years ago and they are now all I use.

The belt itself is stiff enough that I haven't had an issue with them flopping. As someone else said the ratchet doesn't always hold, sometimes it slips a bit which is not ideal and relegated them to normal non carry use.

Blade Tech came in and made their "Ultiamte Carry Belt" which is basically a Nextbelt but with a better more sturdy buckle. The magnet that holds the latch closed seems to be stronger preventing that slip.

Then Nextbelt came out with the "Supreme Appendix" belt which they market as such because the buckle takes up less space leaving you more space to carry a gun:

https://www.nexbelt.com/products/supreme-appendix-black-38mm

The real advantage of this one is the latching mechanism seems to be stronger and it uses a push button to open which makes it easier to adjust throughout the day.

[MGW]

I know this is about ratcheting belts, but I think we've bounced around enough for me to add this. I have owned a Saddleback Leather Tow (https://saddlebackleather.com/leather-tow-belt) belt for longer than I can remember now. It's the most comfortable belt I've used for AIWB and it has held up extremely well. I have carried everything from a J-frame to a 5" 1911 with it and it always handles the weight. I'm finally going to need to replace the one I own because I'm now too small for the original one I purchased. I really need to buy one in black too but have resisted for some reason. At $99 they're not inexpensive. But I honestly believe if taken care of they will last forever.

[Hot Sauce]

Rob, did you end up ordering? I have a nylon X7 in my cart right now and am seriously tempted.

My concern with Kore is some of the comments here about a lack of stiffness, I carry mostly OWB and am used to a Wilderness with stiffener. I’m wondering if I should try the Apogee instead.

A polymer insert (assuming that's what you're referring to) stiffened Wilderness is a high bar of stiffness. Are we still doing phrasing? ;)

The Kore isn't gonna be stiff enough for you if that's the level you're looking for.

The Boxer Apogee won't be stiff enough for you, either.

The Boxer is comparable to other biothane belts--stiff vertically but flexible with some droop otherwise. If you squeeze it in the vertical plane between top and bottom edges it is solid, but if you put your hand on the side of it and push to flatten it to the table, it will flatten out more than double thick bullhide/Volund Atlas/polymer-reinforced Wilderness.

I don't OWB so I can't give more feedback in that regard.

I'm sure you could OWB with it, but if highest level stiffness is your desire, I'm not sure that there's a ratchet belt out there for you. Short of something super goofy that looks like it came off of a pair of inline skates: https://volundgearworks.com/product/ratcheting-competition-belt/

[HeavyDuty]

A polymer insert (assuming that's what you're referring to) stiffened Wilderness is a high bar of stiffness. Are we still doing phrasing? ;)

The Kore isn't gonna be stiff enough for you if that's the level you're looking for.

The Boxer Apogee won't be stiff enough for you, either.

The Boxer is comparable to other biothane belts--stiff vertically but flexible with some droop otherwise. If you squeeze it in the vertical plane between top and bottom edges it is solid, but if you put your hand on the side of it and push to flatten it to the table, it will flatten out more than double thick bullhide/Volund Atlas/polymer-reinforced Wilderness.

I don't OWB so I can't give more feedback in that regard.

I'm sure you could OWB with it, but if highest level stiffness is your desire, I'm not sure that there's a ratchet belt out there for you. Short of something super goofy that looks like it came off of a pair of inline skates: https://volundgearworks.com/product/ratcheting-competition-belt/

Well, shit. I’ve been wearing stiffened Wilderness belts for so long I’m not sure how I would adapt to something less rigid. I may have to pays my money and takes my chance. I needs a stiffie!

[vcdgrips]

At the expense of sounding like a "crotchety" broken record, there is a reason why Wilderness belts are the default response, particularly outside of this forum. Wilderness have forgotten more about cutting, sewing and finishing nylon than some folks will ever know.

On this forum, Graith/Mastermind Tactics get a lot of deserved love. I own 3 Wilderness and 5 G/MMT belts right now.

I wish no one ill will. I simply think based on my direct and vicarious experience, these ratchet type belts are sub optimal for regular use, particularly as the weapon system weight and frequency of use goes up.

I look forward to somebody buying such belts and telling us how they hold up to a daily diet of a G19, a mag pouch and straight blade attached to it over the course of a 12 month and 1 day period.

I would really look forward to somebody who carries a 5 inch all steel 1911 with two mags and a straight blade over the course of 12 months and 1 day chiming in as well.

[corneileous]

At the expense of sounding like a "crotchety" broken record, there is a reason why Wilderness belts are the default response, particularly outside of this forum. Wilderness have forgotten more about cutting, sewing and finishing nylon than some folks will ever know.

On this forum, Graith/Mastermind Tactics get a lot of deserved love. I own 3 Wilderness and 5 G/MMT belts right now.

I wish no one ill will. I simply think based on my direct and vicarious experience, these ratchet type belts are sub optimal for regular use, particularly as the weapon system weight and frequency of use goes up.

I look forward to somebody buying such belts and telling us how they hold up to a daily diet of a G19, a mag pouch and straight blade attached to it over the course of a 12 month and 1 day period.

I would really look forward to somebody who carries a 5 inch all steel 1911 with two mags and a straight blade over the course of 12 months and 1 day chiming in as well.

You know, I can respect that. I just really liked the concept of the ratcheting system, that’s why I picked the Kore belt but I’m curious- even though I do have a pretty good idea I know the answer to this question but shoot, I’m gonna ask it anyways; if that belt was made better to your expectations, how would you feel about it then?

I dunno, because of all the recommendations towards the Wilderness belt, I kinda wish I woulda tried that one but see, since I’ve got quite a few holsters and sinve I’ve got and tried quite a few belts(even just the ones for holding your pants up, not in no way shape or form for sliding a holster on to), I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s not a belt problem nor is it a holster problem, it’s pretty much just a “belt in general” problem. I’ve got belts that aren’t by no means gun belts that are just as uncomfortable as my two gun belts when I’m seated and so far, that Lizard Tail belt I’ve been talking about is really the only one that’s comfortable but after sitting a while, even it gets a little uncomfortable to where I have to loosen even it up.

This is why I just don’t think that Wilderness belt is gonna be any different for being seated for long periods of time with an OWB holster strapped on my side. That Volund belt I have is a very good belt I think, with a very small profile buckle and it’s stiffer than the Kore Belt. Now as far as how it stacks up against the Wilderness belt, I have no idea but if it’s as stiff and as well built as the Volund belt, tell me how that’s supposed to be any different I warrant every time you run around, you’re hollerin’ out that belt?


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[Hot Sauce]

Well, shit. I’ve been wearing stiffened Wilderness belts for so long I’m not sure how I would adapt to something less rigid. I may have to pays my money and takes my chance. I needs a stiffie!
We're definitely still doing phrasing.

[mmc45414]

I have been wondering about ratchet belts and this thread has been very helpful. Main take-aways include (a bit of highjack...):

I maybe do not want a ratchet belt. Probably because belt buckles are orientated over a part of my anatomy I am less proud of, I want less buckle bulk, not more. One brand said "like a zip tie for your waist", and I like that idea, but just seems like all of the buckles seem to be bulky. It also seems like the belts might be bulkier since they have the depth requirement of the notches.

I probably like the Wilderness LowPro more than I realized. I was sorta just meh on it, but it really is less bulky. This makes it seem less weird if the buckle is not in front, and probably just because it is differant. Most of my other (and prior) Wilderness belts have been Frequent Flyer, and the LowPro just seemed weird. But since it is weird, it makes it less weird flipping it around if I need to, though I switched to weak hand shotgun loading so I guess this isn't even a thing anymore.

I maybe want to try a Wilderness CSM. I have always used the five stitch and have been happy (and I have had a bunch of them), but have started to use OWB more (I think IWB is not kosher at the three gun matches I have been dabbling in?) and maybe that might be a compromise from the big bat belts many of the folks wear. Perhaps I should try a LowPro CSM.

I also want to mention I continue to like my GRIP6 belts (https://grip6.com/collections/mens-classic-series-belt). These are too flimsy to be considered a proper gun belt, but I bought them to wear for my sales job. I am expected to wear slacks or khakis, and wool slacks travel better so that is how I roll. But am most often pitching to people more casually dressed so I can swing these belts. With a dress belt I was left with the extra bulk of a second belt (not like I am carrying a ruck, but I do not want to lug anything I do not have to), with these belts I can use it with slacks, shorts or jeans just fine. And while I emphasize it is NOT a gun belt, it is just fine with a AIWB J-frame and would be just fine with a G43/Shield/yada and probably OK with a G48/SIG365/yada. One feature I really like is the tail of the belt is tucked UNDER the belt, some of these ratchet options looks like the tail pokes out from under your shirt like a radio antenna or something. They list a Workbelt/Tactical, but they appear to be the same thickness of material, and they are 1.75" and all of my holsters are 1.5" so I never considered one.

[Larry T]

I have been wondering about ratchet belts and this thread has been very helpful. Main take-aways include (a bit of highjack...):

I maybe do not want a ratchet belt. Probably because belt buckles are orientated over a part of my anatomy I am less proud of, I want less buckle bulk, not more. One brand said "like a zip tie for your waist", and I like that idea, but just seems like all of the buckles seem to be bulky. It also seems like the belts might be bulkier since they have the depth requirement of the notches.

I probably like the Wilderness LowPro more than I realized. I was sorta just meh on it, but it really is less bulky. This makes it seem less weird if the buckle is not in front, and probably just because it is differant. Most of my other (and prior) Wilderness belts have been Frequent Flyer, and the LowPro just seemed weird. But since it is weird, it makes it less weird flipping it around if I need to, though I switched to weak hand shotgun loading so I guess this isn't even a thing anymore.

A couple of clarifications from my use of a KORE nylon ratchet belt every day for the last year...
1. The KORE X7 buckle is 1.5 inches wide. Not many buckles out there smaller than that. It's not an issue for me because I move the buckle a little left of center so the tail of the belt reaches a belt loop to tuck into.

2. The teeth don't add bulk or thickness to the belt. The belt seems to be the same general thickness as any of my 2-ply nylon velcro belts (except where parts of velcro belts are strategically 1-ply). But substantially thinner than the heavy leather gun belts.

3. I have the Wilderness LowPro. I was surprised to find the buckle alone provided almost no retention compared to the round rings on the FF.

My only "complaint" of the KORE nylon belt is that it could stand to be a little less rigid for carrying AIWB even with a light and spare mag on the other side. But the stiffness is fine when carrying a G17 OWB strong side (which I hardly ever do). No belt is perfect for everyone - good thing we have choices.

[Hot Sauce]

The teeth don't add bulk or thickness to the belt. The belt seems to be the same general thickness as any of my 2-ply nylon velcro belts (except where parts of velcro belts are strategically 1-ply). But substantially thinner than the heavy leather gun belts.

Everything here is on point.

[msstate56]

At the expense of sounding like a "crotchety" broken record, there is a reason why Wilderness belts are the default response, particularly outside of this forum. Wilderness have forgotten more about cutting, sewing and finishing nylon than some folks will ever know.

On this forum, Graith/Mastermind Tactics get a lot of deserved love. I own 3 Wilderness and 5 G/MMT belts right now.

I wish no one ill will. I simply think based on my direct and vicarious experience, these ratchet type belts are sub optimal for regular use, particularly as the weapon system weight and frequency of use goes up.

I look forward to somebody buying such belts and telling us how they hold up to a daily diet of a G19, a mag pouch and straight blade attached to it over the course of a 12 month and 1 day period.

I would really look forward to somebody who carries a 5 inch all steel 1911 with two mags and a straight blade over the course of 12 months and 1 day chiming in as well.

I’ve been using a Kore “Tactical” 1.5” belt daily for at least two years. (Plainclothes investigator) I carry a G45 w/ TLR7 in a JM OWB v2. I have 2 spare 17 round mags on opposite hip. Plus handcuffs tucked in waistband.

In pants pockets: 2 Spyderco folders (Endura/delica). Streamlight Protac 2l, creds wallet and badge.

I have only managed to wear a groove in the top of the belt where the front belt loop rides. I have no complaints about the weight bearing capability of this belt. I also wear one of their “leather” belts to church with a slightly reduced load out. It was mentioned that it’s almost too stiff for IWB. I agree, as it doesn’t conform to the curves as well. For IWB I have a Nexbelt that was issued to me. It is more flexible and works better for IWB. However you have to be careful bending the Nexbelt, as I trashed the first one I was given by breaking the internal plastic stiffener in multiple places.

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve been using a Kore “Tactical” 1.5” belt daily for at least two years. (Plainclothes investigator) I carry a G45 w/ TLR7 in a JM OWB v2. I have 2 spare 17 round mags on opposite hip. Plus handcuffs tucked in waistband.

In pants pockets: 2 Spyderco folders (Endura/delica). Streamlight Protac 2l, creds wallet and badge.

I have only managed to wear a groove in the top of the belt where the front belt loop rides. I have no complaints about the weight bearing capability of this belt. I also wear one of their “leather” belts to church with a slightly reduced load out. It was mentioned that it’s almost too stiff for IWB. I agree, as it doesn’t conform to the curves as well. For IWB I have a Nexbelt that was issued to me. It is more flexible and works better for IWB. However you have to be careful bending the Nexbelt, as I trashed the first one I was given by breaking the internal plastic stiffener in multiple places.

Ok, I’m sold on trying a Kore. Has anyone seen any coupons to at least offset shipping?

[Mirolynmonbro]

Ok, I’m sold on trying a Kore. Has anyone seen any coupons to at least offset shipping?

I'm sure they will have one for the 4th

[Larry T]

Ok, I’m sold on trying a Kore. Has anyone seen any coupons to at least offset shipping?

If you poke around on their site, a pop-up should show up asking you to register for their newsletter for a first-time order 10% discount with code "KoreNew10".

[MattyD380]

For warm weather, this is what I’ve been mainly carrying, AIWB (it’s a basic cloth belt):

73727

I guess I’m weird. But I’ve found I always tend to hate the thick, rigid belts (I have a Graith, Crossbreed leather and 5.11 nylon). YMMV, of course, but I find them generally uncomfortable, they print more and I don’t feel like they hold the gun up a whole lot better; it’s like a stiff hula-hoop that just flops forward and ends up putting pressure on my lower back. To that end, I’ve considered the Perry suspenders that someone else mentioned.

But… with the simple cloth belt, it kinda contours to your body and moves with you, not against you. I also counter balance the weight in front by putting all my other shit in my back pockets… and I wear fairly substantial shorts/pants. I run across streets, take some fairly long walks… it’s fine.

Net: I’m feeling like flexibility is preferable to rigidity. For me, anyway.

Lately I’ve been looking at the Groove Life Belt. It’s designed to be stretchy/flexy. Anyone try that?

I also had this crazy idea: How would a rubber belt work for concealed carry?

Lo and behold, Google delivered:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073YMS68Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_V4AVB1CZX6RZS1BAF7ZR?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I bought one. Just for the hell of it. I’m guessing I’ll hate it… like 99% of the holsters and gear I buy. But for $16, it’s worth the experiment.

[HeavyDuty]

If you poke around on their site, a pop-up should show up asking you to register for their newsletter for a first-time order 10% discount with code "KoreNew10".

That did it, and I already have a tracking number. Thanks!

[peterb]

I guess I’m weird. But I’ve found I always tend to hate the thick, rigid belts (I have a Graith, Crossbreed leather and 5.11 nylon). YMMV, of course, but I find them generally uncomfortable, they print more and I don’t feel like they hold the gun up a whole lot better; it’s like a stiff hula-hoop that just flops forward and ends up putting pressure on my lower back. To that end, I’ve considered the Perry suspenders that someone else mentioned.

But… with the simple cloth belt, it kinda contours to your body and moves with you, not against you. I also counter balance the weight in front by putting all my other shit in my back pockets… and I wear fairly substantial shorts/pants. I run across streets, take some fairly long walks… it’s fine.

Net: I’m feeling like flexibility is preferable to rigidity. For me, anyway.

I suspect it’s the pants/belt combination. If the pants fit well and are a sturdy fabric and have closely spaced belt loops that are a good match for the belt, a flexible belt can work reasonably well. If the pants provide less support the belt has to do more.

Yesterday I was wearing a pair of “around the house” loose shorts with an elastic waistband, four flimsy belt loops, and a flexible belt. I tried putting on a holster for dryfire and the holster movement when drawing was…..excessive. ;-). The same belt with different pants gave acceptable results.

Have you tried a contoured stiff belt? It sounds like that might be a better match for you than a straight cut.

[rob_s]

I guess I’m weird. But I’ve found I always tend to hate the thick, rigid belts (I have a Graith, Crossbreed leather and 5.11 nylon). YMMV, of course, but I find them generally uncomfortable, they print more and I don’t feel like they hold the gun up a whole lot better; it’s like a stiff hula-hoop that just flops forward and ends up putting pressure on my lower back. To that end, I’ve considered the Perry suspenders that someone else mentioned.

But… with the simple cloth belt, it kinda contours to your body and moves with you, not against you. I also counter balance the weight in front by putting all my other shit in my back pockets… and I wear fairly substantial shorts/pants. I run across streets, take some fairly long walks… it’s fine.

Net: I’m feeling like flexibility is preferable to rigidity. For me, anyway.

The genius of the Wilderness belt, and their secret sauce that none of the home-stitch-bitches can replicate, is the vertical rigidity vs lateral flexibility. The former is where you actually want the stiffness, and the latter is where you want more flexibility. Unfortunately, none of the garage seamstresses (or factory, for that matter) "get it" relative to this and we've spiraled down this ever-derpier hole towards "hula hoops" because that's what we're made to accept if we want the vertical stiffness. The 5-stitch plus "proprietary" material of the Wilderness is how you get the best of both worlds, without a hoola hoop.

the other aspect I find is that where/how we carry makes a difference as to what we're looking for in belts. Not just OWB vs IWB, but traditional-IWB vs appendix-IWB too.

which also seems relevent to the ratchet-belt discussion. Kore =/= Nexbelt in general, and then HOW the end user is carrying, how often, what else they carry beyond the pistol... all play a role in how the belt holds up and how it works for them.

My Kore belts are out for delivery, so I should have hands on in a few hours. I plan to take some detailed photos and compare to the various other belts in my arsenal (Cobra, Wilderness, Beltman, etc.)

[MattyD380]

I suspect it’s the pants/belt combination. If the pants fit well and are a sturdy fabric and have closely spaced belt loops that are a good match for the belt, a flexible belt can work reasonably well. If the pants provide less support the belt has to do more.

Yesterday I was wearing a pair of “around the house” loose shorts with an elastic waistband, four flimsy belt loops, and a flexible belt. I tried putting on a holster for dryfire and the holster movement when drawing was…..excessive. ;-). The same belt with different pants gave acceptable results.

Have you tried a contoured stiff belt? It sounds like that might be a better match for you than a straight cut.

Yeah, you're right. The pants do make a difference. I have similar shorts to the ones you described... I've tried those with the same belt/gun. For a quick drive to grab some milk or whatever... it's okay. But for walks of any length, the thicker shorts are much better.

Haven't tried a contoured/stiff belt. Do you have any brands in mind?

[MattyD380]

The genius of the Wilderness belt, and their secret sauce that none of the home-stitch-bitches can replicate, is the vertical rigidity vs lateral flexibility. The former is where you actually want the stiffness, and the latter is where you want more flexibility.

That logic does make sense. I haven't looked into Wilderness belts... perhaps I will.

[rob_s]

That logic does make sense. I haven't looked into Wilderness belts... perhaps I will.

FWIW, if they would get with the times and use a buckle that didn't require un-threading, I don't know that I'd wear anything else in terms of nylon belts.

For most folks, threading it on once in the morning and off once in the evening is not a big deal, but for someone with IBS the Cobra buckle (or something similar) was a game-changer in tactical belts. :p

I was begging the Wilderness to make a model with one for years but gave up.

[rob_s]

Initial photos, posted without comment, nylon first.

Kore construction. Nylon outer, rubber innner
73787


Kore sag
73788


Wilderness sag (my go-to carry belt)
73789


CTOMS sag (my normal non-carry belt)
73790


Buckle thickness comparison
73791


Buckle height comparison
73792


Wilderness top, Kore bottom
73793


Wilderness top, Kore bottom
73794


Relative amount of lateral squish retention (to coin a phrase)
73795

[rob_s]

Leather initial photos.


Most importantly, good match to the apple watch band!
73796


Buckle vertical comparison. Comparison belt is daily-wear beltman
73797


Buckle thickness comparison
73798


Kore vertical sag
73801


Beltman vertical sag
73802


Leather thickness comparison
73799


Relative amount of lateral squish retention
73800

[rob_s]

Wore the nylon belt around the house today with a G19 in a JMCK OWB holster. The good news is that the belt supported the gun really, really well. Barely noticed the gun. Much like when I carry with the Wilderness belt.

The… radial stiffness? Lateral stiffness? Lack of quinsyness? Whatever, the hoolahoo affect, let’s call it, is annoying as it has always been to me with other belts. I suppose this means that those who do like or look for that kind of stiffness should love the Kore.

Shorts are 5.11, so belt loops for days. Which also makes the hoolahoopiness even more aggravating whe trying to thread the belt on and through the holster loops.

I wonder if I sent The Wilderness $200 and a cobra buckle I cut out of another belt they’d make me a custom one? That re sins my dream belt.

I’ll keep wearing the nylon Kore both with and without gun a bit more. For anyone reluctant to buy a Kore due to a perceived lack of stiffness, I would put that worry to bed.

73856

The belt tends to get hung up on the Chicago screw inside the s holster in a way that less hoolahoopy belts do not.

73857

[mmc45414]

I wonder if I sent The Wilderness $200 and a cobra buckle I cut out of another belt they’d make me a custom one?
I think they do a service where they will build a new belt on your existing Instructor buckle, so maybe?



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[idahojess]

.....
The belt tends to get hung up on the Chicago screw inside the s holster in a way that less hoolahoopy belts do not.

...



Interesting reviews, thanks for the info. Does the leather version hang up less on the belt loops and holster?

[rob_s]

Interesting reviews, thanks for the info. Does the leather version hang up less on the belt loops and holster?

IDK. I won’t be carrying OWB with the leather belt, and don’t want to thread a kydex holster on to it in case the plastic scratches it.

[rob_s]

Continuing the saga...

I wore the nylon belt, sans gun, on 7/4. Well, I attempted to. I put on my shorts, put on the belt, and walked around the house getting ready to leave for a party. I didn't make it out the door with the goddamn belt on. It's too stiff. The hoola-hoop effect when worn slightly loose on the waist/hips is fucking annoying as hell. Arguably it pulls the belt away from the body, in fact. I find the more laterally flexible belts, like The Wilderness, to be far more comfortable without the gun.

On the leather belt side, some good news. Wearing it now with my work attire, again no gun. Khakis and a dress shirt. it's very comfortable. the lateral stiffness is less than the nylon version, and therefore it contours better and allows for a slightly looser fit without feeling like it's pulling the pant away from me.

[HeavyDuty]

Continuing the saga...

I wore the nylon belt, sans gun, on 7/4. Well, I attempted to. I put on my shorts, put on the belt, and walked around the house getting ready to leave for a party. I didn't make it out the door with the goddamn belt on. It's too stiff. The hoola-hoop effect when worn slightly loose on the waist/hips is fucking annoying as hell. Arguably it pulls the belt away from the body, in fact. I find the more laterally flexible belts, like The Wilderness, to be far more comfortable without the gun.

On the leather belt side, some good news. Wearing it now with my work attire, again no gun. Khakis and a dress shirt. it's very comfortable. the lateral stiffness is less than the nylon version, and therefore it contours better and allows for a slightly looser fit without feeling like it's pulling the pant away from me.

Rob, what’s your waist size? I’m big and round, and hoping this won’t be an issue for me.

[rob_s]

Rob, what’s your waist size? I’m big and round, and hoping this won’t be an issue for me.

Depends what day it is ;)

Generally I wear anything from a 33-35 pant size. I am, thankfully, still wider side-to-side than front-to-back so having a belt that can flex and not stay in a permanent circular shape matters to me.

If you already wear an extra-stiff belt, I'd imagine you'll be quite happy with the Kore nylon. In fact, having owned a few of the various recent-vintage extra-stiff belts I find the Kore nylon belt to be pretty much identical to those. I can't imagine anyone not finding these to be stiff-enough.

[Larry T]

Continuing the saga...

I wore the nylon belt, sans gun, on 7/4. Well, I attempted to. I put on my shorts, put on the belt, and walked around the house getting ready to leave for a party. I didn't make it out the door with the goddamn belt on. It's too stiff. The hoola-hoop effect when worn slightly loose on the waist/hips is fucking annoying as hell. Arguably it pulls the belt away from the body, in fact. I find the more laterally flexible belts, like The Wilderness, to be far more comfortable without the gun.

On the leather belt side, some good news. Wearing it now with my work attire, again no gun. Khakis and a dress shirt. it's very comfortable. the lateral stiffness is less than the nylon version, and therefore it contours better and allows for a slightly looser fit without feeling like it's pulling the pant away from me.

Well yeah, the nylon belt is quite substantial and overkill for sure when not carrying. On the rare occasion I'm not carrying, I use the leather gun belt or just a regular belt. I don't find the nylon belt too stiff, but it's stiffer than it needs to be for IWB or AIWB. I wish they would do a nylon belt with the stiffness of their leather gun belt, in line with all the velcro belts like Wilderness (3 or 5 stitch) or graith / mastermind, etc.

[rob_s]

Well yeah, the nylon belt is quite substantial and overkill for sure when not carrying. On the rare occasion I'm not carrying, I use the leather gun belt or just a regular belt. I don't find the nylon belt too stiff, but it's stiffer than it needs to be for IWB or AIWB. I wish they would do a nylon belt with the stiffness of their leather gun belt, in line with all the velcro belts like Wilderness (3 or 5 stitch) or graith / mastermind, etc.

there's definitely some gaps in their lineup.

Comparing their Classic (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-classic-gear) line to their EDC (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-edc-gear)line:

buckle selection in the EDC line is extensive, but pretty limited in the Classic (EDC includes black options, Classic doesn't). Buckles are not interchangeable between lines
Strap selection is also limited in the classic (Tactical straps (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-edc-gear/products/tactical-gun-belt-belt-only) have green option while the Classic (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-classic-gear/products/nylon-fashion-belts-belt-only) does not)



something else I noticed just now that I didn't notice before, the leather belts have a lesser load-carrying rating than the nylon. Which may explain the rigidity difference.

74010

[Larry T]

there's definitely some gaps in their lineup.

Comparing their Classic (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-classic-gear) line to their EDC (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-edc-gear)line:

buckle selection in the EDC line is extensive, but pretty limited in the Classic (EDC includes black options, Classic doesn't). Buckles are not interchangeable between lines
Strap selection is also limited in the classic (Tactical straps (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-edc-gear/products/tactical-gun-belt-belt-only) have green option while the Classic (https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/all-classic-gear/products/nylon-fashion-belts-belt-only) does not)



something else I noticed just now that I didn't notice before, the leather belts have a lesser load-carrying rating than the nylon. Which may explain the rigidity difference.

74010

I don't have any of their "fashion" classic belts. I have one each of their leather gun belt and nylon belt. The X7 short buckle is what I use on the nylon. And yes, there's a pretty big difference in capacity between the leather and nylon. I suggested to Kore they develop a 4-6 lb version of their nylon a year ago but they haven't seen fit. I'd use the leather version for AIWB but I don't think the leather would take the holster and pouch clips day in day out without scratching pretty bad.

[HeavyDuty]

Depends what day it is ;)

Generally I wear anything from a 33-35 pant size. I am, thankfully, still wider side-to-side than front-to-back so having a belt that can flex and not stay in a permanent circular shape matters to me.

If you already wear an extra-stiff belt, I'd imagine you'll be quite happy with the Kore nylon. In fact, having owned a few of the various recent-vintage extra-stiff belts I find the Kore nylon belt to be pretty much identical to those. I can't imagine anyone not finding these to be stiff-enough.

I was just wearing my nylon EDC around the house. (This is momentous given that in the age of COViD I’m usually in house pants unless I go out.) I’m a 46-48 or thereabouts, and I’m used to always wearing a Wilderness five stitch with liner with jeans. The Kore is stiff, but I suspect it might loosen up a little in use and is fine for me as is.

[rob_s]

Little bit of an update….

I like the leather version so much I got two more for work. Still have yet to carry a gun with the leather version.

Storing the nylon version rolled up has helped some with the absurd rotational stiffness, but not really enough to make me want to wear it all the time. Wilderness is still better.

As to the ratchet system itself, it’s definitely nice to be able to tweak the fit very easily as the day goes on (car, standing up, desk, etc) and I find the stiffness of the leather belt to be great for office attire (again, still have t used one for carry).

However, the ratchet buckle isn’t really any easier than a a traditional buckle in terms of on/off, and may in fact be more of a pain.

For personal/off-work use, even carrying, I don’t really see a use for the nylon one. Like most gun belts these days, stiff in all the wrong directions.

Also, before buying any of these I wanted to be able to potential,y swap buckles around. That’s just not happening. So ow I guess some fashion and some tactical (belts are a slight,y different width so the buckles aren’t swappable between the two lines) doesn’t matter. Nor, frankly does changing brands entirely.

[Larry T]

Interesting that you brought this back. I was about to post about my "Goldilocks just right" find from Kore. I used the Tactical Nylon for AIWB for over a year and found it stiffer in all directions than necessary - but not to the point I ever found it uncomfortable - just more than necessary. I have the 4lb leather gun belt but felt it wasn't quite as sturdy as I was looking for plus the "dressy leather" finish wasn't up to the daily on / off of loops and clips.

I suggested to Kore they develop a middle of the road 6lb version of the nylon gun belt. Nothing ever came of it. One day I was looking at the Kore site and found their "Western" collection. It's a Full Grain leather with an almost suede flat matte finish. I didn't want the Western buckle so I bought the strap separately with an X7 appendix buckle. It's now my favorite belt. Firmer than the top-grain leather gun belt and more flexible than the 8lb nylon. I found it by accident.

https://www.koreessentials.com/collections/western-belts/products/reinforced-full-grain-buffalo-leather-gun-belts-no-buckle