870P: bulking up and resetting the (light) clock

[gato naranja]

I may be at what my dad would have termed “the ass end” of my shotgunning days, but I am not giving up quite yet.

In the interest of adding weight (for recoil reduction) and some pull length adjustment to my 870P so I can square up a bit less, I am taking the plunge and replacing the old factory Remington reduced LOP synthetic buttstock with a Magpul SGA.

The part where I am still sort of waffling is up front, because I am also considering replacing my old – and now discontinued - GG&G forend/TLR-1 combo with a Surefire forend. A situation arose a while back where the trusty TLR-1 at 3:00 proved to be placed rather too far out to the side, and I have sort of grudgingly come to the conclusion that maybe the 6:00 light on an 870 needs another chance. The Surefire forends weigh more than the Streamlight TL-Rackers, so I plan to go with a DSF-870.

Anyone have thoughts on current production Surefire DSF-870s?

[Jason M]

I have them. They definitely add weight to the front of the gun. This is enhanced with having a +2 mag tube. Being an SF product, they reliably throw a great number of lumens in the direction they're pointed. Certainly enough to provide positive target ID at shotgun distances. Yes, even when loaded with slugs. They do have a down side (for me). The shape of the fore end bangs on the support hand knuckle pretty good when using a push-pull grip. With regard to recoil reduction, have you tried the Haught "push-pull" method? This provides me with great results. More than just adding mass to the gun. In the end, I decided on a matching Magpul fore grip with a SF mini-scout for 870 applications. It's not a 6:00 mount but it works really well.

[blues]

I have one as well though I don't have the same issue as Jason M probably because of a differential in hand size.

I have a +2 as well, so the weight addition is noticeable but for how often I work with my shotgun anymore, I'm okay with it. (A Magpul stock replaced the OEM.)

[gato naranja]

They do have a down side (for me). The shape of the fore end bangs on the support hand knuckle pretty good when using a push-pull grip. With regard to recoil reduction, have you tried the Haught "push-pull" method? This provides me with great results. More than just adding mass to the gun. In the end, I decided on a matching Magpul fore grip with a SF mini-scout for 870 applications. It's not a 6:00 mount but it works really well.

Some older Surefires occasionally smacked my left hand back in the day, but not consistently so... which makes me think it might have been a technique thing more than a hardware thing (for me). For reasons unknown, I am bothered more by stuff sticking out to the right or left of a firearm than I used to be- "slick-sided" is growing on me.

I have noodled with the Haught "push-pull" but not seriously (yet); I am going to try it in addition to the added weight, along with attempting a stance sort of between "full-Fudd bladed" and squared-up.

***

My 870P does have the factory +2 extension now, though I was using a +1 not that long ago. Every ounce counts... just not in the same direction it did when I was a younger cat.

[LHS]

The most ergonomic SF forends are the originals (i.e. the ones marked "Laser Products" instead of "SureFire"). Each successive model seems to have less and less to recommend it from an ergonomic standpoint. The current crop are not my favorites. That said, the Streamlight models are a nightmare if you're trying to push-pull (which, shameless plug, you should be).

I really wish SF would introduce a modernized version of that original forend, with upgraded internals and a bit more texturing (or even better, some Hogue Overmolded-type rubbery stuff), that weigh less than the originals. That would really be the cat's ass. Unfortunately, the demand from the shooting public just isn't there, and with LE abandoning the gauge as a primary long gun, I don't see enough market to really push development. It's a shame, but there it is.

[SeriousStudent]

The most ergonomic SF forends are the originals (i.e. the ones marked "Laser Products" instead of "SureFire"). Each successive model seems to have less and less to recommend it from an ergonomic standpoint. The current crop are not my favorites. That said, the Streamlight models are a nightmare if you're trying to push-pull (which, shameless plug, you should be).

I really wish SF would introduce a modernized version of that original forend, with upgraded internals and a bit more texturing (or even better, some Hogue Overmolded-type rubbery stuff), that weigh less than the originals. That would really be the cat's ass. Unfortunately, the demand from the shooting public just isn't there, and with LE abandoning the gauge as a primary long gun, I don't see enough market to really push development. It's a shame, but there it is.

Agree with Matt.

I'd be down for a new LED screw-in doodad for the original Laser Products. I have four on different shotguns, and they are honestly the best, as all have remarked.

Who is our resident lumen expert? He likes shotguns too.

[LHS]

Agree with Matt.

I'd be down for a new LED screw-in doodad for the original Laser Products. I have four on different shotguns, and they are honestly the best, as all have remarked.

Who is our resident lumen expert? He likes shotguns too.

Malkoff makes 1- and 2-cell replacement heads for them. I need to get around to buying a couple, right now all my old forends are using not-quite-as-old SF LED replacements, which IIRC are about 100 lumens or so.

[SeriousStudent]

Malkoff makes 1- and 2-cell replacement heads for them. I need to get around to buying a couple, right now all my old forends are using not-quite-as-old SF LED replacements, which IIRC are about 100 lumens or so.

I have some nice LED's in there now, but sort of dislike the length of the 2-cell battery tube on an SBS.

I'll look into the Malkoff's. You probably just cost me $500. Again.

By the way, the next time you are down here, I have a pair of nice (old) shotguns for you to play with: Ithaca 37 and a Winchester 1897 riot gun. :cool:

[gato naranja]

The most ergonomic SF forends are the originals (i.e. the ones marked "Laser Products" instead of "SureFire"). Each successive model seems to have less and less to recommend it from an ergonomic standpoint. The current crop are not my favorites. That said, the Streamlight models are a nightmare if you're trying to push-pull (which, shameless plug, you should be).

I do need to put more effort into technique, as I have soft-pedaled the scattergun for a while.

The Streamlight probably is going to be a draw compared to what I already have - all things considered - but the weight is higher, which is sort of driving this bus.

[BobM]

I have the Malkoff upgrade in a 90s era SF forend. I’d recommend it

[LHS]

By the way, the next time you are down here, I have a pair of nice (old) shotguns for you to play with: Ithaca 37 and a Winchester 1897 riot gun. :cool:

This pleases Crom.

It's been a tick since I've run either platform, but I recall the 37 was the gun that made me realize that slam-fire sounds cool on paper, but isn't terribly useful in practice. Great pieces of history both of them.

[SeriousStudent]

This pleases Crom.

It's been a tick since I've run either platform, but I recall the 37 was the gun that made me realize that slam-fire sounds cool on paper, but isn't terribly useful in practice. Great pieces of history both of them.

Yes, it's going to be a teaching gun.

The 1897 belonged to my grandfather, and was a family heirloom that went missing. It is now back in the proper hands.

[LHS]

Yes, it's going to be a teaching gun.

The 1897 belonged to my grandfather, and was a family heirloom that went missing. It is now back in the proper hands.

Oh now that's beautiful. Family history makes for a great gun.

[Nephrology]

I'd echo a lot of sentiments re: the SF foreend. I have one of the new models, I don't love it, but it's fine. If you go that route I'd definitely recommend using at most a +1 extension to keep it from being too front heavy.

Not much of a shotgun guy anyway, if/when I get more serious about them I'd probably go the semi auto route.

[Rex G]

I’ll echo those who are saying that the older ones were ergonomically better. My wife’s 870 has one of the old Laser Products on hers; graceful and functional. I had one or two of the intermediate Surefires, which worked well, too. The recent Surefire that I now have is, well, too large, non-ergonomic, and weighs too much. Of course, ergonomics/fit are individual; not the same for everyone, and weight/mass is another individual choice.

It is not that my older Surefires died. Each went to live with younger LEO colleagues. One was re-homed, IIRC, after I started carrying a patrol rifle, about 19 years ago, and the other was re-homed somewhat more recently, when a colleague needed one to attend a scheduled class that would authorize him to use the WML on his 870, and I was still awaiting one of the rare opportunities to enroll to attend one of the too-few prerequisite “Tactical Shotgun” classes. (An edict forbidding WMLs had come down, and was eventually followed by a policy allowing WMLs, after attending a certification class.) By the time I had finally attended the prerequisite Tactical Shotgun class, I had switched to a Benelli M2.

[gato naranja]

The SGA stock has been ordered, but the forend is still in limbo.

The current Surefires sure don't seem to generate much enthusiasm compared to the originals; someone should have not fixed what wasn't broke, at least ergonomically.

I may be lucky in that I do not have a lot of experience with the older forends, so I don't have much of a basis for comparisons.

[DDTSGM]

I prefer sidemounts as I don't like the light moving back and forth, that being said, has anyone mentioned the Streamlight Raker?

It runs about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a Surelife, and from what I read, gets good reviews.

I didn't like the Surefire foreends, so I doubt I'd like the Streamlight, but if that is the way you want to go the Racker may be worth looking into.

[gato naranja]

I prefer sidemounts as I don't like the light moving back and forth, that being said, has anyone mentioned the Streamlight Raker?

It runs about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a Surelife, and from what I read, gets good reviews.

I didn't like the Surefire foreends, so I doubt I'd like the Streamlight, but if that is the way you want to go the Racker may be worth looking into.

The current forend/light is an old GG&G with an oldr TLR-1 at 3:00, and it has done well for some years, but I increasingly dislike weaponlights - or anything else - at 3:00 and 9:00. That and my quest for a little added weight in accessories have gotten me off TDC to change out the forend. That being said, nothing seems to be as well regarded as the old Laser Products forend/light.

Nobody I know has a Streamlight Raker to compare, but it might be worth looking into. As mentioned before, I don't have much experience with a Surefire, so I may not mind either one simply because i don't know any better. (Forty years of dealing with people at work have taught me that ignorance can be bliss.)

The Magpul SGA stock is interesting so far. It doesn't feel and handle bad, it's just different from what I am used to. A box or two of 00 should tell whether or not it was worth investing in.

[tango-papa]

I prefer sidemounts as I don't like the light moving back and forth, that being said, has anyone mentioned the Streamlight Raker?

It runs about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of a Surelife, and from what I read, gets good reviews.

I didn't like the Surefire foreends, so I doubt I'd like the Streamlight, but if that is the way you want to go the Racker may be worth looking into.

Streamlight Racker - sample of three: two of them had flicker issues, were replaced by Streamlight and the replacements had the same issues; one had flicker issues and then died and the replacement had flicker issues. All three were returned for refund.

The latest Surefire 870 weaponlight is bulky, heavy and not as comfortable/ergonomic as the earlier gen versions, but they work.

[gato naranja]

The latest Surefire 870 weaponlight is bulky, heavy and not as comfortable/ergonomic as the earlier gen versions, but they work.

This could also describe me... except maybe the part about working.

But seriously, reliability is why I keep spending money on Surefires and Malkoff drop-ins.

[LHS]

The Streamlight forend is pretty much antithetical to push-pull due to the ergos.

[gato naranja]

The Magpul SGA stock is interesting so far. It doesn't feel and handle bad, it's just different from what I am used to. A box or two of 00 should tell whether or not it was worth investing in.

Hmm. It feels weird to quote myself.

Anyway, is there a consensus on whether the recoil pad on the Magpul SGA stock is reasonably effective vs a Limbsaver or the old Remington Supercell pads? The short LOP Remington synthetic stock has an R3 pad (which I believe is a Supercell), but it also has a small "footprint", so it - in theory - doesn't spread out the recoil like a larger pad would. The Magpul pad that came on the SGA is a fair amount stiffer than the R3, but with the current troubles, Remington parts are iffy.

I am poised to pony up the additional $ for a MAG 318 pad adapter and a Limbsaver #10101 unless someone pulls me back from that particular cliff.

[Rick R]

Hmm. It feels weird to quote myself.

Anyway, is there a consensus on whether the recoil pad on the Magpul SGA stock is reasonably effective vs a Limbsaver or the old Remington Supercell pads? .

I don’t have any problems with the stock Magpul pad and have their stock on three guns. In fact I’m headed out this morning to shoot 100+ rounds (1oz target loads) at sporting clays with my 870.

[gato naranja]

The Streamlight forend is pretty much antithetical to push-pull due to the ergos.

My gut tells me that at some point my hand would slide right along & past the Streamlight forend, the "notch" being little more a reverse speed bump.

The standout feature that I see on the old Laser Products forend through today's Surefire DSF 870 that might be a plus especially for the push-pull technique is the fact that the things all have a built-in front "handstop." During the time I have used my old GG&G forend, I have occasionally been sloppy and inadvertently used a TLR-1 at 3:00 as a handstop.

Most unpleasant.

[DDTSGM]

My gut tells me that at some point my hand would slide right along & past the Streamlight forend, the "notch" being little more a reverse speed bump.

The standout feature that I see on the old Laser Products forend through today's Surefire DSF 870 that might be a plus especially for the push-pull technique is the fact that the things all have a built-in front "handstop." During the time I have used my old GG&G forend, I have occasionally been sloppy and inadvertently used a TLR-1 at 3:00 as a handstop.

Most unpleasant.

I tend to agree, just suggested the Streamlight as an alternative. The notch did seem to be a detriment to me. The 'hump' on the surefire is one of the reasons I didn't care for them.

Why not just use one of these with a conventional WML:

https://brightguy.com/product/streamlight-69901-12-gauge-mag-tube-mount/

I have one of them on an 870 using an old Streamlight M3.

[gato naranja]

I tend to agree, just suggested the Streamlight as an alternative. The notch did seem to be a detriment to me. The 'hump' on the surefire is one of the reasons I didn't care for them.

Why not just use one of these with a conventional WML:

https://brightguy.com/product/streamlight-69901-12-gauge-mag-tube-mount/

About ten years ago, I tried a number of light mounts that either clamped around the tube(s) or got sandwiched between the magazine nut/extension/barrel ring. I found out that I suck at manipulating weaponlight switches even worse than normal when the light isn't on the forend of an 870. If someone else was as bad, I'd find it comical AND pitiful.

I can see why the Benellis and 1301s sell well... If the recoil wasn't worse (given similar gun weights), I'd make the switch myself. Reciprocating forends can be a pain in the arse. My box of tried and rejected 870 gizmos is embarrassingly well stocked considering how seldom I use the flippin' thing.

[richiecotite]

I can see why the Benellis and 1301s sell well... If the recoil wasn't worse (given similar gun weights), I'd make the switch myself.

FWIW, in my experience the 1201 recoils noticeably less than any 870 I’ve shot with similar barrel lengths, even though the beretta weighs a lb less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Edster]

I use the push/pull technique and have not had a problem with the TL Racker. I was pretty concerned the lower-hanging grip would throw things off but it's been fine so far.

I did have to put some abrasive step/skateboard tape on it. I have to do this with every shotgun fore-end, though. This includes the Magpul and (especially) the first generation SureFire I have on another 870.

[gato naranja]

I have been told that the Magpul MOE forend for an 870 is quite useable for the push-pull technique. Has anyone got a mount suggestion that might successfully put a scout light at the 10:30 or 11:00 position near the front of a Magpul MOE forend?

(IOW, position the shotgun light similarly to my carbine setup. Sure be easier to remember, if nothing else.)

[LHS]

My gut tells me that at some point my hand would slide right along & past the Streamlight forend, the "notch" being little more a reverse speed bump.

The standout feature that I see on the old Laser Products forend through today's Surefire DSF 870 that might be a plus especially for the push-pull technique is the fact that the things all have a built-in front "handstop." During the time I have used my old GG&G forend, I have occasionally been sloppy and inadvertently used a TLR-1 at 3:00 as a handstop.

Most unpleasant.

Honestly, I evolved into my current support hand technique of only using three fingers to grip the forend, and pointing my index finger at the target, as a response to banging my forefinger against the Surefire 'hump' (though I've also found that it unkinks my wrist and reduces fatigue from absorbing all that recoil as well). Any kind of forward handstop gets unpleasant when it's transmitting recoil to your support hand. I've come to vastly prefer some kind of tacky (Hogue overmolded, or similar) or textured (skateboard tape, stippling) surface on my forends. I'm actually pondering hitting my 1301 forend with some bedliner to see if that gives me some more tackiness and cushion compared to the factory checkering (which isn't bad at all, mind you.)

Especially in recent years, with the prevalence of handstops on carbines all over the place, I've seen numerous students show up with handstops on a shotgun only to run off and remove them during water breaks. I definitely see the benefit in having one on a super-shorty gun just to prevent having your hand jump in front of the muzzle, but it's not something you want to deliberately press up against.

[gato naranja]

Especially in recent years, with the prevalence of handstops on carbines all over the place, I've seen numerous students show up with handstops on a shotgun only to run off and remove them during water breaks. I definitely see the benefit in having one on a super-shorty gun just to prevent having your hand jump in front of the muzzle, but it's not something you want to deliberately press up against.

Yeah, the few times I have had that TLR-1 out there on the forend at 3:00 become an inadvertent, surprise handstop, "unpleasant" was the polite euphemism. Wasn't sure how a more rounded form at 6:00 would work in the long term though I currently have a jones for a 6:00 light... probably not that well. And because I am not a short barrel user, I don't really need a handstop to keep my fingers safe.

I'm not too sure switching to a Magpul M-Lok MOE forend isn't merely a lateral move except for being able to mount a light on either side and being easier to add grip tape to if I decide to do so. At this point, I am seriously considering leaving well enough alone and keeping the GG&G "modified Davis/Speedfeed corncob" forend but getting a low-profile cantilevered mount for an extra scout light I have laying around (and ditching the TLR-1 as a shotgun light).

[LHS]

I've yet to find a truly good way to mount a light to an 870. They've all got downsides and compromises. If you're talking about a bolt-on arrangement rather than an integral light, about the least annoying way I've seen is to bolt a piece of Pic rail on the strong-side flank of a Magpul handguard, add a U-boat or similar light, and just don't worry about momentary switching. It does add lateral bulk on the right side, which can be an issue if you're like me and perpetually playing Tetris to fit everything in your safes or trying to get it to latch into a rack system, and it isn't great for shooting around the left side of a barricade, but at least it won't be jamming into your fingers/thumb under recoil.

I don't care for the mounts that sandwich between the mag tube and the extension, as they reduce the amount of thread engagement there and that can cause issues. I've even seen one guy strip the threads off his mag tube (the tube itself is hanging in Vang's shop because it was such a freak occurrence) in a class.

[gato naranja]

I've yet to find a truly good way to mount a light to an 870. They've all got downsides and compromises.

Agreed. Another case of "there is nothing new under the sun" for me, as when I set this current rig up some years back, it checked off a lot of boxes but had some shortcomings.

In any event, a Magpul M-Lok MOE forend has now been ordered and we shall see what transpires. I already have enough Surefire goodies to make a scout light for it, and I may just get a cantilever M-Lok mount and see if that does the trick (and also keeps my paw away from the thing that makes a spot of light on the wall).

And if the combo proves much lighter than what I already have, there is always a strip of stick-on wheel weights in the shop.

[DDTSGM]

I've yet to find a truly good way to mount a light to an 870. They've all got downsides and compromises.

There is no free lunch. Case in point - Steiner MK-7 Battle Light!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.steiner-optics.com%2Flaser-devices%2Fmk7-battle-light&psig=AOvVaw1-ebJAAKE3-XX2ENcVAEML&ust=1621136000927000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNjdgMDgyvACFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

Downsides -

Looses extra mag capacity (I cornered the market on these at $49.00 thinking I could figure a way to mount it on a +2 extension, no luck)

Have to take hand off forearm to operate switch. On a Tac-14 you hand is in front of muzzle when doing so - probably a bad thing.

Upsides -

Handy for varmints.

[Edster]

I was using a Magpul fore-end for a good long while on an 870. I took it through one of Daryl's HiTS classes with no problems.

For a light, I mounted a picatinny rail length at 6 o'clock. Then I used a VLTOR offset flashlight mount with a quick-release mount. In that, I put a SureFire 6P-sized light. The light had a press-click on/off tailcap so I could do momentary or just leave it on.

This setup put the light at 5 o'clock with the tailcap in front of my support hand index finger.

I tried it at 7 o'clock but decided driving a flashlight into my extended thumb under recoil would be unpleasant. With the switch at 5 o'clock, it was fussier to work but it was easier to get my index finger out of the way.

I also tried mounting the light to the side so it would be at about 11 o'clock. While this works for a carbine with its elevated front sight, I found the light took up too much of my field of vision on the shotgun.

This was a pretty satisfactory setup and I only replaced with the TL Racker because the TL switch is so much easier and more intuitive. I also like that the TL Racker has fewer places to snag things compared to the Magpul/Surefire setup. If I have any problems with the Streamlight, it will be back to the Magpul.

In its favor, battery changing with the Magpul/Streamlight was a piece of cake. With the quick-release mount, I could easily pull the flashlight off the shotgun and still have a perfectly functional shotgun.

Like every fore-end I've ever tried, the Magpul needed grip tape.

[LHS]

Like every fore-end I've ever tried, the Magpul needed grip tape.

Dude, if they made a MOE+ version with the rubbery stuff on it like some of their pistol grips, that would go a looooong way towards making me like the forend more.

[gato naranja]

Like every fore-end I've ever tried, the Magpul needed grip tape.

I wonder if any of the various M-Lok "rail covers" are worth investigating? Running them on a pump shotgun forend is a bit more of a dynamic challenge than just having them sit there and cover slots on a carbine. The Magpul forend does look like it might be easier to apply and keep grip tape on than than a lot of other forends.

[gato naranja]

My 870P is now "Magpul-ized" with an SGA stock and MOE M-Lok forend. The easily-removable TLR-1 light will stay at 3:00 but sit a bit further forward as well as a tad higher. The Wilson/Scattergun jumbo head safety stayed on, and the magazine follower that was in there was replaced by a lime green Type 2 from S&J Hardware that I had never gotten around to installing. I think I'm done widdit.

The weight difference is there but is not remarkable: it had been 7.23 pounds for some time, and is now 7.44 pounds. Not much more bulk, thus the potential recoil only dropped by about 3% or so (i think)... so now it's on to technique.

Thanks to all for the ideas.

[Lex Luthier]

My 870P is now "Magpul-ized" with an SGA stock and MOE M-Lok forend. The easily-removable TLR-1 light will stay at 3:00 but sit a bit further forward as well as a tad higher. The Wilson/Scattergun jumbo head safety stayed on, and the magazine follower that was in there was replaced by a lime green Type 2 from S&J Hardware that I had never gotten around to installing. I think I'm done widdit.

The weight difference is there but is not remarkable: it had been 7.23 pounds for some time, and is now 7.44 pounds. Not much more bulk, thus the potential recoil only dropped by about 3% or so (i think)... so now it's on to technique.

Thanks to all for the ideas.


Hope it works out for you, GN. Please keep us posted.

[awp_101]

My 870P is now "Magpul-ized" with an SGA stock and MOE M-Lok forend. The easily-removable TLR-1 light will stay at 3:00 but sit a bit further forward as well as a tad higher.
Got a pic of the light setup? Maybe it’s the lack of coffee and the fact I just installed my Magpul furniture so I haven’t started looking at how to mount goodies, but I’m having a hard time picturing your setup.

[gato naranja]

Got a pic of the light setup? Maybe it’s the lack of coffee and the fact I just installed my Magpul furniture so I haven’t started looking at how to mount goodies, but I’m having a hard time picturing your setup.

I still have not finalized the M-Lok pic rail on the forend. I had thought that I would need a cantilevered section, but that may not be the case. The TLR-1 appears to be far enough forward on a section of short rail in the front slot.

(Far, I said far, enough forward to not break my fingers, that is.)

I may end up putting a short section of rail on both sides at the front, as they are not particularly 'snaggy"... AND it would allow use of the light at both 3:00 and 9:00 should that be needed. Once it is done, I will take an "after" pic.

[awp_101]

Looking forward to the pics, thanks!

[gato naranja]

We just got done finalizing the setup after a test run to make sure things were going to be copacetic when using an attached TLR-1, so I took a quick shot with a crap camera before I clean it up and work on fitting the sling.

72135

The photo is as clear as bad hefeweizen in a dirty stein, but it may be a while before I can take a good portrait of the ugly old stick with its new furniture. The stock and forend below the gun are what had been on it for quite a while.

It is kind of hard to see, but a short Magpul M-Lok rail section (stk # MAG580) is on the right front of the Magpul MOE M-Lok forend, positioned essentially like the rail on the GG&G forend. The TLR-1 goes on and off quickly (a feature which I still like and had taken for granted... mea culpa), and is slightly more forward and a wee bit higher than when using the GG&G forend. Really no big advantage to the new setup over the old one (AFAWAC). Moving the light to 6:00 was not pursued past a certain point for a number of reasons, so that issue is moot.

After testing the rail sections on hand, the Magpul cantilever rail/light mount (stk # MAG588) was deemed unnecessary, and a second short Magpul M-Lok rail section positioned on the left side was also deemed unlikely to be needed, as nobody in the house these days is left-pawed. In essence, at the last hour, we applied the very same KISS principle that was used back when the GG&G was selected; hopefully this is not simply foolish consistency.

So much for the forend and the light.

The LOP on the Magpul SGA stock is about 3/8" less, give-or-take, which is no big deal. The new stock was hard to accept, because some of my old habits die hard... for one, I liked the flowing lines and curves of the 870 as I have known it for decades; for another, I wanted that stick to be all-Remington LE. Alas, the Magpul stock brings some things to the table the old trad stocks did not, and if it only also had a bottom QD sling stud, I'd be happy as a cat with fresh litter.

I weighed the thing on la gata naranja's digital scale this morning and it is 7 lbs, 7.2 oz empty, with no sling or light... so I was pretty close with my calculations. The old furniture had it weighing 7 lbs, 3.65 oz. So it isn't greatly different than before, but is a little heavier, a little more "modular," and a little easier to control. It was relatively snag-free and about as complex as a brick before, and that hasn't changed.

Now, on to the push-pull technique!

[Edster]

The new stock was hard to accept, because some of my old habits die hard... for one, I liked the flowing lines and curves of the 870 as I have known it for decades;

I hear ya. I put that thing on and my first thought was, "Dang. Did they just think tactical meant ugly?"

Once I started shooting it, though, it became a thing of beauty. :)

[xtrtsqrt11]

The most ergonomic SF forends are the originals (i.e. the ones marked "Laser Products" instead of "SureFire"). Each successive model seems to have less and less to recommend it from an ergonomic standpoint. The current crop are not my favorites...

...I really wish SF would introduce a modernized version of that original fore end, with upgraded internals and a bit more texturing (or even better, some Hogue Overmolded-type rubbery stuff), that weigh less than the originals. That would really be the cat's ass. Unfortunately, the demand from the shooting public just isn't there, and with LE abandoning the gauge as a primary long gun, I don't see enough market to really push development. It's a shame, but there it is.

I would like to see this as well, however, I agree with Matt's opinion of it not being likely today. My SF fore end is an old model (I'm at work so I don't have it in front of me-as far as whether it's labeled SF or LP, I think it's LP marked though, something to check out when I'm at home), but it only has the momentary switch on the right hand side, no other switch at all, I have wished for a disable switch in the past for when It's cased up. I just take the light body off for such occasions. That's a going to the range situation, so I don't have the need for instant ready.

In reading this thread, I found it interesting about the slamming the knuckle on the back of the light. It is something that I have not experienced with my 870 (or work). I learned (and use) push pull all the time with shotguns (tactical variety-not my over under for instance) as I learned at the 2007 Rob Haught class that 10 8 put on in Chino, CA. I have my index finger pointed out, I don't quite do the perfect index point like Rob taught or encouraged that I remember, but it must help with not busting my knuckle at least.

My experience is limited to my personal HD 870 that I used for the class and then subsequent training/practice, as well as work shotguns that also have OLD and beat to crap SF fore ends. They also have solely momentary switches.

It makes me glad that my personal 870 has an old fore end and that I did not succumb to the newest must be better mentality!

But like Matt says (I remember talking to him quite a bit during that course-I probably got lucky in that I dropped my gear on day one, near where his was!), a new lessened weight light would along with other improvements would be awesome!!

[Erick Gelhaus]

The most ergonomic SF forends are the originals (i.e. the ones marked "Laser Products" instead of "SureFire"). Each successive model seems to have less and less to recommend it from an ergonomic standpoint. The current crop are not my favorites. That said, the Streamlight models are a nightmare if you're trying to push-pull (which, shameless plug, you should be).

I really wish SF would introduce a modernized version of that original forend, with upgraded internals and a bit more texturing (or even better, some Hogue Overmolded-type rubbery stuff), that weigh less than the originals. That would really be the cat's ass. Unfortunately, the demand from the shooting public just isn't there, and with LE abandoning the gauge as a primary long gun, I don't see enough market to really push development. It's a shame, but there it is.
Hands down, LHS has this right. We were talking about this during the recent armorer's class in LV. My old 870 has a Laser Products H18F forend on it, tape switch on one side, on/off rocker on the other, no sharp edges or bulges, easy to grasp even with small hands.
The only thing now I'd advocate for a change on would be the Hogue material.


I have the Malkoff upgrade in a 90s era SF forend. I’d recommend it
Odd, I haven't experienced an increase in capability or performance with the Malkoff over other offerings. I'm going to pick up one of the SF LED replacements for that gun.



Anyway, is there a consensus on whether the recoil pad on the Magpul SGA stock is reasonably effective vs a Limbsaver or the old Remington Supercell pads?
I've been really happy with the pads Magpul uses on the SGA stocks. Don't see a need to find any replacements for them.




The photo is as clear as bad hefeweizen in a dirty stein, but ...
Best description of a photo I've read in years. Thank you.

I haven't bought an SF fore-end in a couple of decades. As I have added shotguns for work, home, or teaching (rather than historical), they have gotten Magpul fore-ends and a section of Pic rail.

[LHS]

I haven't noticed any difference in performance between the Magpul stock pad and the old limb savers. Then again, I don't notice when I've got a solid butt plate on a shotgun either so I'm not the best judge of these things.

[LHS]

That was such a fun class. Believe it or not, that was my first formal shotgun class. I grew up learning the gauge every weekend and doing range monkey stuff but that was the first time I got to see the class from a student's perspective. And I spent a long time soaking up info from folks with different experiences and perspectives. Plus, you know, I got to shoot shotguns for two days straight. What's not to love?


I would like to see this as well, however, I agree with Matt's opinion of it not being likely today. My SF fore end is an old model (I'm at work so I don't have it in front of me-as far as whether it's labeled SF or LP, I think it's LP marked though, something to check out when I'm at home), but it only has the momentary switch on the right hand side, no other switch at all, I have wished for a disable switch in the past for when It's cased up. I just take the light body off for such occasions. That's a going to the range situation, so I don't have the need for instant ready.

In reading this thread, I found it interesting about the slamming the knuckle on the back of the light. It is something that I have not experienced with my 870 (or work). I learned (and use) push pull all the time with shotguns (tactical variety-not my over under for instance) as I learned at the 2007 Rob Haught class that 10 8 put on in Chino, CA. I have my index finger pointed out, I don't quite do the perfect index point like Rob taught or encouraged that I remember, but it must help with not busting my knuckle at least.

My experience is limited to my personal HD 870 that I used for the class and then subsequent training/practice, as well as work shotguns that also have OLD and beat to crap SF fore ends. They also have solely momentary switches.

It makes me glad that my personal 870 has an old fore end and that I did not succumb to the newest must be better mentality!

But like Matt says (I remember talking to him quite a bit during that course-I probably got lucky in that I dropped my gear on day one, near where his was!), a new lessened weight light would along with other improvements would be awesome!!

[gato naranja]

I've been really happy with the pads Magpul uses on the SGA stocks. Don't see a need to find any replacements for them.

The Magpul pads are good enough that I have not replaced them with something else... and I am a scaredy-cat when it comes to recoil ("Let me tell ya' somethin'... about retina damage!"). I did, however, replace the previous black furniture with earthtones, as seen in the appended (slightly better) snapshot.

This is probably the final iteration of the HD/utility shotgun that was - and is - the original subject of this thread: it is now an otherwise bone-stock 18" Mod-choked, low-profile-sighted 870P with Magpul furniture/M-Lok pic rail, BFG VCAS sling, Wilson/Scattergun jumbo head safety, and an S&J Hardware type 2 follower. Weaponlight subject to change.

This rig may be passé by today's standards, but it feeds, fires and ejects just about any shells short of stuff somebody ran their truck over. A weaponlight on that short section of rail will light up the white front XS bead for me perfectly as well as illuminate the surrounding landscape. Good is good enough.

From this point on, I am the part of this duo that will be the weak link, not the shotgun.