Gramps ain't taking your s$*t...2 unlucky thugs trip over themselves trying to flee

[BaiHu]

an internet cafe. Wait, did you say internet cafe? There's money there??

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-elderly-man-in-florida-charges-and-shoots-two-would-be-robbers-2012-7

[Jason F]

One of my favorite parts of this story:

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120714/ARTICLES/120719763?p=4&tc=pg

"Though Henderson [one of the perps] said he doesn't blame Williams [CCW shooter] for shooting, he takes exception with Williams shooting at him while he was down.

"I was down, and I'm not going to continue to shoot you," he said."



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. As if we needed further proof this guy is an idiot, there he opens his mouth and proves it. Seriously, if you hold people up with a gun, and they have one too, why WOULDN'T they keep shooting at you?!? What a moron.

[Zhurdan]

HOLY SHNITZLE!!!

The part of the video that I found absolutely amazing/stunning is the people just milling around after the first shot. At the very least GET DOWN. Nahhh, I'll just cover my ears and walk towards the gun toting thugs. I guess the door was that direction. Maybe she was moving that direction at a snails pace.

Video does need some Benny Hill music though. ;)

[peterb]

Seriously, if you hold people up with a gun, and they have one too, why WOULDN'T they keep shooting at you?!?

Because the use of lethal force in civilian self-defense is only justified if there is an immediate threat.

As I understand it, you are legally justified in shooting until the mythical "reasonable person" would conclude that there is no longer an obvious threat. If you keep shooting past that point, you become the assailant. Look at the Ersland shooting as an example.
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-pharmacist-found-guilty-of-murder/article/3571542

[ford.304]

I'd hope a reasonable person would give someone the benefit of the doubt in a situation like that. "Running for cover to return fire" and "running" look kind of similar.

Comparing this with the Ersland one gives a pretty good picture of the range of "reasonable" action. It was the premeditated nature of going to fetch a second gun to finish off the perp that resulted in the murder verdict there.

[TCinVA]

I'm not inclined to get worked up at the person who wasn't committing a violent felony because the perpetrator of that felony claims in the aftermath that he was no longer a threat. I've noticed that the perpetrators of violent felonies seem to recall events inaccurately after the fact and as such considerable benefit of whatever doubt exists should be given to the person who didn't attempt to victimize others.

In other words, I'm not going to start giving the older gentleman here the stink eye just because the bad guy claims that he had stopped resisting. All you have to do is watch cops for a couple of weeks to see dozens of people who are fighting with the cops and yet claim to not be resisting.

EDIT:

Is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpv6dJZhg0U&feature=youtube_gdata_player) video of the event? Given the brief couple of seconds that events transpired, it's rather difficult to argue that the guy minding his own business before the two thugs showed up was being a vigilante executioner like Mr. Violent Felon alleges. When they exited the building, he stopped shooting. Prior to that he can articulate a threat to others who were between the bad guys and the door...and since they'd just been waving guns and a bat around it's rather hard to argue that he should have known that their violent intent had obviously evaporated from the two or three seconds prior when they were threatening people with death.

Splendid job on the good guy picking his moment to attack.

[TCinVA]

HOLY SHNITZLE!!!

The part of the video that I found absolutely amazing/stunning is the people just milling around after the first shot.

Somewhere out there is video of a woman at a stop N' rob who walks up to the counter while the person behind the counter and a would-be robber are exchanging shots...so apparently it's not unique behavior. Confused people with no plan often do stupid things during an emergency.

[Zhurdan]

What is it about Internet Cafe's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=4OjzSf0-AZg

[peterb]

I agree that "down" doesn't necessarily mean "out". Having an attacker fall to the ground is not sufficient by itself to remove him as a threat.

My reply was intended for "why wouldn't you keep shooting?" in a general sense, not necessarily this instance.

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

What is it about Internet Cafe's?

they are video gambling halls in most places. around here they are called "skill games" as well as internet cafe's. for a while they were popping up all over town until they started to crack down on them. most are 24/7 and sketchy as hell....

~matt

[NEPAKevin]

As far as I could see, both actors retained their weapons and had the ability to do harm although it might be argued that they were not demonstrating manifest intent as they fled. It depends if you think it is reasonable to treat them like Cobras that could turn and strike if given the chance.

[vaglocker]

Gramps was rocking the old school "Grab my shooting wrist with the off hand" two handed grip.

[tmoore912]

Does the CC shooter look to be racking the slide right before he gets out of the chair to attack? That is what is looks like to me.

How about the perps being interviewed by a reporter and bitching about being shot at by a armed customer. LMFAO!

[kmartphoto]

Gramps was rocking the old school "Grab my shooting wrist with the off hand" two handed grip.

yeah.. but watch his tigger finger it looks to be clear of the guard every time he moves and its out at the end when he stops and looks down at the gun.

[RoyGBiv]

Best thing Gramps did in the aftermath....


Williams — who declined to be interviewed

[jstyer]

Best thing Gramps did in the aftermath....

True freaking story.

[Carraway]

they are video gambling halls in most places. around here they are called "skill games" as well as internet cafe's. for a while they were popping up all over town until they started to crack down on them. most are 24/7 and sketchy as hell....

~matt

I also wondered why all these places were popping up until I learned what's really going on. If anyone's curious, it's a convoluted way to gamble (I've never been in one but got to learn a bit about them). In simple terms most claim to sell Internet time on machines that include a sweepstakes entry. The machines just happen to look pretty much like slots or video poker. I

[fixer]

crazy video.

I agree that when the bad guys are fleeing yet retaining their weapons it is a bit of a fuzzy picture when the threat is gone. It was also a 2 on 1 scenario which adds to the reasonableness of grampa's aggressive response. At least in my opinion.

[Jameson]

Watch a lot of CCTV footage of armed robberies, and it becomes obvious that bystanders don't instinctively hit the deck at the sight of guns like they do in the movies. Many will just make a stupid face and freeze up.

As to shooting the fleeing robbers: if your intention is absolutely, positively, 100% 'win this goddamn fight' and nothing else, then the assumption MUST be that your adversaries are retreating to cover or positions of advantage. Legally, this can obviously look much less kosher than standing down after they start creating distance. I'm not saying either approach is right or wrong, it's just something to think about.

Tons of interesting stuff in the video. Perps begin fleeing within the first millisecond of resistance. Gramps alternates between a 'Dirty Harry' two-handed grip and SHO. He appears to be using varying degrees of point shooting, though he may be using his sights for the first couple shots. He seems to be continuously closing the distance to the point where he feels most comfortable taking the shots and making hits, and not really 'pursuing' the robbers. He also seems to be very conscious of all the bystanders, and appears to only take shots where he has good, unobstructed lines of sight. He even makes a little check of his surroundings after the final shot, with his finger off the trigger, indexed along the frame. Gun appears to be a pocket or small-ish .380.

Cool video, and this guy did great, IMO.

[NEPAKevin]

Watch a lot of CCTV footage of armed robberies, and it becomes obvious that bystanders don't instinctively hit the deck at the sight of guns like they do in the movies. Many will just make a stupid face and freeze up.


Maybe someone should have shouted: "Can't you people see, there are guns here! ... " :)


http://youtu.be/BovXzH36M0I

[NickA]

Maybe someone should have shouted: "Can't you people see, there are guns here! ... " :)


http://youtu.be/BovXzH36M0I

"The only thing you can tell about a broken-down old man is that he's a survivor. " ;) Love that movie.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[tmoore912]

The mouse(gun) that roared

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-mouse-gun-that-roared


Williams surprised the two thugs by pulling his own handgun, identified by the Marion County Sheriff's Office as a two-tone .380-caliber Taurus TCP, and opened fire. He hit both bad guys, who were later arrested at a local hospital and have since bonded out of jail.