USSS Work/Life Question.....

[RoyGBiv]

Hopefully ok to post this here...

I ran into a young guy yesterday at a volunteer gig. We got to talking a bit about work and he shared that he got an offer to join USSS but as excited as he was about the offer, the few current and former members he's spoken with painted a bleak picture of work/life and family (divorce rate) prospects.

I know a few long term military folks with very successful marriages. But moving your family from base to base with hundreds/thousands of similar families is quite different, I suspect, than moving from place to place with USSS. Much fewer people around you in a similar situation, less of a local support network for relocated family members, very different work demands. Etc.

If my read on this is wrong, or someone would be interested in giving this guy some encouraging information, I'd like to try and make the connection. I didn't think to get his contact information at the time, but, will likely see him at a volunteer event next week.

If his warning lights are justified, I'm happy (sad) to relate that confirmation to him.

Anyway.... it troubled me enough that I thought I'd ask. I figured we had a few members in a position to offer a qualified opinion.

Feel free to PM if you don't want to post here.

Thanks.!

[blues]

TGS is in a good position to answer questions of this sort. I don't know if we have USSS agent members here.

Personally, having worked with and alongside many, it's just not a job that appealed to me...but I have respect for those agents who can do it. (There's more to the job than protective work, but still...)

[TGS]

RoyGBiv

The warnings are well justified. The turnover numbers at the Service speak for themselves (even higher turnover than FAMS or Border Patrol), and I'll reserve the rest of my comments for private conversation.

[WobblyPossum]

I’ve met multiple former USSS special agents who left the agency to work for other agencies. They all claim to be much happier at their current agencies. My impression is that it’s not the drain of regularly relocating long term that drags people down. It’s constant short term travel on short notice. Also the fact that every four years during a presidential election you’re spending much of the year on the road for protective details. It doesn’t matter if you were investigating the biggest case in USSS history. It’s a drop everything and go do this situation.

Did your acquaintance get the offer for a uniformed division (UD) position or a plain clothes special agent position? I know one former UD officer. When he decided to apply for a plain clothes investigative position, he didn’t apply to USSS for a special agent position. He only applied to other agencies.

[TC215]

We have several former USSS guys at my agency. I've NEVER heard anyone say anything good about USSS management.

[psalms144.1]

I've worked with tons of USSS agents, and even more FORMER USSS agents. None of them loved their management, or the pace of work they were forced to conduct. I had a former USSS agent in my Special Agent Basic class and he related that while working in the national capital region as a new hire, he was given the option to pick ONE regular day off per month for his first six months of service. He was making tons of money in scheduled OT, but he got out of USSS as soon as he could.

I've worked about 9 years of protection out of the last 21, so if your friend has specific questions about the protection lifestyle, I'd be happy to chat.

[HCM]

We have several former USSS guys at my agency. I've NEVER heard anyone say anything good about USSS management.

This^^^

Some great people in USSS but they are known for their “Apache” style of management. I.e. an Apache will ride a horse till it dies, get it up again, ride it 50 more miles, then eat it.

Unfortunately, Manny of the USSS managers brought this management style to the Federal air marshal service when it was expanded after 9/11.

Prior comments regarding frequent short notice travel are spot on. In an election year it would not be unusual to be on the road 200 days a year And those are not eight hour days. In addition to the obvious family and relationship issues this can cause, it can be frustrating for those who are trying to work investigations that have to be put on hold at critical junctures to prioritize protection work.

[vcdgrips]

Edge of my lane- I had started a response to this thread on my home computer but had to come into the office and just came up for air. My first version was better I suspect.

Like the others who have posted, I know a lot of former USSS Special Agents who are now Special Agents with other agencies, mostly smaller OIGs.

In the Midwest, USSS agents get detailed to IOWA as the election season rolls around, all the time, such that ANY casework that is not protection related take a back seat.

I believe that USSS agents have to do a DC based Protection assignment that is 4+ yrs in length. I have heard it referred to as the "marriage breaker" because those agents are NEVER around their families in a consistent, predictable way.

I know a former USSS Agent (Now with an OIG) who was assigned to the Baltimore or DC Field Office ( different from the protection detail) and was told that time in the "field office " would count toward the protection detail because those agents augment that PD on a regular basis. Ultimately that was not the case such that the promised 4 yr gig in DC max became a 6 yr gig min.

I know that as a USSS agent you will spend more out of pocket for gear/clothes/shoes etc. because by custom, practice, pride and position, USSS agents wear suits and ties much more often than other agencies such that buying off the rack at Macy's with a pair or two of leather soled Alfani brand dress shoes is simply not going to cut it.

I know that I have to tell USSS agent that when I say meet me @ 0900 I mean 0900, not 0830. They are, to an agent, VERY on time. I have had little success and finally have said, you come when you want, I will see you at 0845-0850 because that is as early as I run and you can witness me walk into the office for the day.

Having said all of that, Series 1811 Special Agents Appointments are hard to come by. Virtually every retired USSS SA I know has parlayed their training/experience into very nice retirement gigs if they so chose. i.e. Pick of the litter executive protection,. high end private investigative work, security directorships for banks, school districts, private schools, universities, colleges, hospital systems etc. I am not saying that other retired agents do not land on their feet. It just seems that retired USSS ones do so better than all the others I have seen.

The window opens and closes on being Series 1811 SA. The agency you start with is not the agency you end with. Knowing everything I know now, I would try to realistically set the expectations of my family accordingly if I was going to take that job.

Let us know what happens.

BE SAFE AND WELL ALL.

[BehindBlueI's]

I worked with them fairly frequently during the Pence VP years. Seemed like a lot of short term travel, a lot of working for people who were, um, "personalities", and a lot of things that didn't really appeal to me. I also noticed I didn't see the same guys all the time, and the guys I did see weren't even from the same office. They knew each other, but it wasn't like a team from Office X flew in. Some guys from here, some from there, hasty assemble and take care of the detail then go back home sort of stuff.

The one UD guy I knew certainly did not speak highly of his time there.

[TC215]

The one UD guy I knew certainly did not speak highly of his time there.

I always heard that UD was one of the worst jobs in law enforcement.

[jlw]

Several of the guys that I started out with went on to the USSS. I've also worked along with the USSS on a few former-POTUS visits and for the G8 Summit.

POTUS election years can be brutal. At the time I had contact, they worked a 28 straight day schedule.

One night, one of the guys from the old days was bored and called the squad room. He was on midnight shift standing outside of a bathroom window of a house because the POTUS was staying there for the night.

While not every agent works protective details as their normal assignment, if POTUS, V-POTUS or a former POTUS comes to town, they get pulled for the detail.

I was standing guard over the arrival area for a former POTUS visit along with several agents and got to chat with them a good bit. A former V-POTUS who less than a mile away at a different event. They told me that with a few exceptions, the actual elected official were typically easy going but that the junior staffers could be a real pain and would try to treat them as armed porters. If it got too bad, they'd a senior guy to reign in the youngster.

One of the guys I had been a rookie with was on the above mentioned detail. He was sitting in a room making sure that the cell phone jammer worked. He later wound up on Obama's detail just as he was leaving the White House; so, my buddy spent a lot of time in Hawaii over the next few years. I'm not sure of his current assignment or if he got to have any fun on the islands.

[RoyGBiv]

Thanks to all of you for the feedback. Very consistent reporting.

I'm currently on a volunteer gig typing on my phone so apologies for the brief reply.

I didn't know enough to ask about what job exactly he was offered, but he talked about WH protection duties as part of the job.

Smart guy, competent, personable. Someone you'd be proud to be related to as much as I know.

I don't have many details on his background but he's very concerned about the impact on family. Sounds like not the easiest choice for him.

I'll likey copy/paste the text of responses to anonymize them and hand them over for consideration.

Much appreciated.
Thanks. Sincerely.

[CraigS]

Our niece married an SS agent. I only see him maybe 3-4 times per year but everything said above is spot on. He seems to have risen to a level where he spends a fair amount of time in his local office but, he also travels a LOT. Quite often my brother mentions that his daughter and kids will be visiting for the weekend because her agent husband is out of the country for 2-3 weeks. From what I can gather he doesn't have a lot of choice. Schedule is posted and he WILL be doing whatever it says. And the travel isn't just for the duration of the Pres or VP's trip. There is a lot of preplanning that needs to happen. From a couple of stories he has told, the man hours involved setting everything up prior to the trip often exceeds the hours the Pres is away...by a lot.

[Jeff22]

There’s a book coming out in May called “Zero Fail: The Rise and Fall of the Secret Service” by Carol Leonnig (https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Fail-Rise-Secret-Service-ebook/dp/B08GJZDP4V/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3LK3DQQBSV5NJ&dchild=1&keywords=zero+fail%2C+carol+leonnig&qid=1621433292&sprefix=zero+fail%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1) that might be interesting. Amazon recommended it to me and I pre-ordered it.

There have been other books in recent years by Ron Kessler and Gary J. Byrne that portray the Secret Service as a capable group that is sometimes badly led and always over worked and run into the ground.

[Le Français]

They are hemorrhaging agents despite being among the best paid in that field, and I’ve certainly never heard of an 1811 with another agency applying to transfer there. Those are clues.

There’s evidence in this thread suggesting that USSS agents have taken a 50+% pay cut to leave.

That said, if this is an 1811 Special Agent position we’re talking about and not a Uniformed Division Officer position, it’s not easy to get the offer, and it does get your foot in the door. Even a UD position will stop the retirement clock. But those advantages come at a steep cost.

USSS agents who have gone over to the world of make your own schedule, work from home, never be on call, and don’t even have your phone with you on weekends say that OIG stands for “Oh, It’s Good”.

I think it’s a shame that the Service is in the shape it’s in. They have a lot of very good financial crimes and cyber crimes investigators, and a rich history of solid work.

[Lester Polfus]

I think it’s a shame that the Service is in the shape it’s in.

I have insights into this that match everything that has been said in this thread, and I have serious concerns that this becoming a security issue that could eventually have serious repercussions.

These folks sometimes border on the super-human when it comes to discipline and devotion to duty, but they are still human, and I fear they are being run into the ground.

Regardless of whether you voted for whatever turd happens to be in the White House at any particular moment, it's in everyone's best interest for them to have a zero-fail security detail.

[Jeff22]

Ron Kessler wrote a book that came out in 2010 called “In the President’s Secret Service: Behind the scenes with the agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect.” (https://www.amazon.com/Presidents-Secret-Service-Behind-Protect-ebook/dp/B002JKVXFU/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=“In+the+President’s+Secret+Service%3A+Beh ind+the+scenes+with+the+agents+in+the+line+of+fire +and+the+presidents+they+protect&qid=1621433325&sr=8-1)

The Amazon guy delivered my copy of “No Fail: The rise & fall of the secret service” last night. I was off and it was raining so I began reading and enjoyed a few beers. Looks like a fine book and I think I would recommend it to anybody interested.

The struggles that the Secret Service have gone through over the years, particularly how overworked they are during an election year, have been well known for a long time. The agents deserve better.

[RoyGBiv]

Apologies to all who replied here, for my not circling back with any update.

The week following this thread I was not able to catch up with the person from the OP. I did catch them the following week (last week) and gave them a paper copy of your replies, without any names/handles. He was very grateful for the effort. I have not heard from him since I gave him the printout and since the clinic is now closed, it's possible our paths won't cross again. I did give him my contact info in case he had any questions.

So... Mission accomplished and thanks to everyone who provided their thoughts.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Heard the Zero Fail author on NPR the other day. Sounds like some good people mixed with bad and the agency screwed over by their overseers and the whacky and immoral behavior of some of those to be protected. Reserved the book at the library.

[LittleLebowski]

Ron Kessler wrote a book that came out in 2010 called “In the President’s Secret Service: Behind the scenes with the agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect.” (https://www.amazon.com/Presidents-Secret-Service-Behind-Protect-ebook/dp/B002JKVXFU/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=“In+the+President’s+Secret+Service%3A+Beh ind+the+scenes+with+the+agents+in+the+line+of+fire +and+the+presidents+they+protect&qid=1621433325&sr=8-1)

The Amazon guy delivered my copy of “No Fail: The rise & fall of the secret service” last night. I was off and it was raining so I began reading and enjoyed a few beers. Looks like a fine book and I think I would recommend it to anybody interested.

The struggles that the Secret Service have gone through over the years, particularly how overworked they are during an election year, have been well known for a long time. The agents deserve better.

I read that one. Carter was an asshole and an idiot with regards to the nuclear football. Karl Rove was well liked. Hillary was a cast iron bitch (surprise!).

[Jeff22]

Ron Kessler wrote a book that came out in 2010 called “In the President’s Secret Service: Behind the scenes with the agents in the line of fire and the presidents they protect.” (https://www.amazon.com/Presidents-Secret-Service-Behind-Protect-ebook/dp/B002JKVXFU/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=“In+the+President’s+Secret+Service%3A+Beh ind+the+scenes+with+the+agents+in+the+line+of+fire +and+the+presidents+they+protect&qid=1621433325&sr=8-1)

The Amazon guy delivered my copy of “Zero Fail: The rise & fall of the secret service” by Carol Leonnig. last night. I was off and it was raining so I began reading and enjoyed a few beers. Looks like a fine book and I think I would recommend it to anybody interested.

The struggles that the Secret Service have gone through over the years, particularly how overworked they are during an election year, have been well known for a long time. The agents deserve better.

[TCB]

On of my former co-workers and a good friend is currently assigned to SS CAT...I talk to him regularly and have since he jumped ship from our Agency a few years ago, he loves his current gig and never heard him complain prior to joining that fairly specialized team. Different strokes I guess or maybe coming from years slogging it out on the Southern Border anything is an upgrade?

[TC215]

On of my former co-workers and a good friend is currently assigned to SS CAT...I talk to him regularly and have since he jumped ship from our Agency a few years ago, he loves his current gig and never heard him complain prior to joining that fairly specialized team. Different strokes I guess or maybe coming from years slogging it out on the Southern Border anything is an upgrade?

I worked with CAT (provided SWAT support) during a presidential visit a few years ago. Seemed like squared-away guys.

[Le Français]

Different strokes I guess or maybe coming from years slogging it out on the Southern Border anything is an upgrade?

You might be on to something there! Different strokes is definitely true. Being a PA in a rural area might be a dream job for someone who would hate to be stuck traveling around major cities all the time, and vice versa.


I worked with CAT (provided SWAT support) during a presidential visit a few years ago. Seemed like squared-away guys.

I trained in active shooter response with a current CAT agent, and he exuded some qualities I’ve come to associate with squared-away tactical team members: humility, fitness, and a state of unflappable calm.

[TCB]

Dream job for some? Could be I suppose, it’s treated me well...I’d be remiss if I didn’t put out that we’re hiring! Like hundreds and hundreds of openings...still probably well over a thousand vacancies and growing (unless Congress secretly changed our mandatory staffing levels again).

[Le Français]

Dream job for some? Could be I suppose, it’s treated me well...I’d be remiss if I didn’t put out that we’re hiring! Like hundreds and hundreds of openings...still probably well over a thousand vacancies and growing (unless Congress secretly changed our mandatory staffing levels again).

If someone likes hot weather, small towns (with some opportunities in big cities), the great outdoors, and wants an action-packed Fed LE job with a six figure income, the Patrol could be a pretty good choice. I considered it myself years ago, and although I’m glad I didn’t go that route, it can be good for plenty of people. I think it’s a better way to “stop the clock” than USSS Uniform Division, at least for people who like to be active.

[Le Français]

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/618787400

USSS has been trying to bring back retired agents.

“Maximum age limit (under 60 at the time of appointment)
Work Full-Time
Receive Overtime
Earn Full Annuity and Full Salary”

If these positions are not subject to statutory pay caps, then figure $160k-$170k salary, $60k-$70k pension, whatever you’re pulling out of TSP, plus OT and tons of per diem for travel, and it could easily be over $300k/year. And then you save all of it, because you have no time off!

[TGS]

I was serving some warrants this past week with an HSI agent who had just come from USSS last year. He said that the Service was finally addressing the issue of their UD 083s who want to work their way up to Special Agent jobs and finally started doling out Special Agent gigs to their UD officers, something that has been a sore subject the last decade as the agency typically has been hesitant to "rob Peter to pay Paul". Most people would think that going USSS-UD would be a natural foot in the door for an SA gig, but in reality it's been a good way to ensure you don't get considered.

Thing is, he said they're not sending them through CITP.....so, hey, they're now "Special Agents" that aren't competitive to transfer agencies since they don't have the golden ticket from FLETC.

Crafty, gotta' hand it to them on that one.

[HCM]

I was serving some warrants this past week with an HSI agent who had just come from USSS last year. He said that the Service was finally addressing the issue of their UD 083s who want to work their way up to Special Agent jobs and finally started doling out Special Agent gigs to their UD officers, something that has been a sore subject the last decade as the agency typically has been hesitant to "rob Peter to pay Paul". Most people would think that going USSS-UD would be a natural foot in the door for an SA gig, but in reality it's been a good way to ensure you don't get considered.

Thing is, he said they're not sending them through CITP.....so, hey, they're now "Special Agents" that aren't competitive to transfer agencies since they don't have the golden ticket from FLETC.

Crafty, gotta' hand it to them on that one.

Given that there are substantial numbers of “former USSS” in HSI and other agencies such as the virtual mafia of ex-USSS in the various OIG agencies it’s no surprise.

[Gadfly]

I did over 6 months on the campaign trail, TDYed to USSS. 21 days in the road, and then 21 days at home doing my regular HSI job. I can say, doing it for 6 mo this was interesting. I got to see a lot of sights, and visit a lot of cities I would never have gone on my own. Meet a ton of politicians and celebrities. Made a ton of over time. I had a blast, and will hopefully do it again in 2023, right before I retire BUT, I knew it was short term.

If I had to do that constantly for years? Nope. No way. The comment of the ”marriage breaker” is spot on. My kids are out of the house now, so being gone 21 days straight is not shoving my wife under the bus. But if you had kids under 5? Yeah, that would be highly stressful on a marriage.

I work with multiple former USSS guys in my office. When I taught at Fletc, every class had at least one former (sometimes several) USSS guys. None of them had any desire to go back.

The comment on it being a golden ticket for post retirement work is spot on.

If you want to get into high speed chases, actually chase bad guys, kick in doors, and do cop stuff, USSS is probably not for you.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Thing is, he said they're not sending them through CITP.....so, hey, they're now "Special Agents" that aren't competitive to transfer agencies since they don't have the golden ticket from FLETC.

Crafty, gotta' hand it to them on that one.

BIA was doing that a while back...sending them through a shorter course at IPA. I don't know if that is still a thing or not.

[psalms144.1]

Thing is, he said they're not sending them through CITP.....so, hey, they're now "Special Agents" that aren't competitive to transfer agencies since they don't have the golden ticket from FLETC.

Crafty, gotta' hand it to them on that one.My agency is doing something similar starting next year. Basic training will be at FLETC, but it's an agency specific training course, based on CITP and our old add-on. With the way we hemorrhage agents every year when the mandatory move cycle starts, I don't think this move is to "maximize training through-put efficiency," but rather to lock folks into our agency.

Having said all that, I went through an Agency-specific Basic course way back before electricity, and still got grandfathered into my current agency, because it was deemed to be "equivalent."

[TGS]

My agency is doing something similar starting next year. Basic training will be at FLETC, but it's an agency specific training course, based on CITP and our old add-on. With the way we hemorrhage agents every year when the mandatory move cycle starts, I don't think this move is to "maximize training through-put efficiency," but rather to lock folks into our agency.

Having said all that, I went through an Agency-specific Basic course way back before electricity, and still got grandfathered into my current agency, because it was deemed to be "equivalent."

I could actually see the training efficiency thing. We're in a similar bind.....not necessarily because we're hemorrhaging agents but because we had a hiring freeze under the Trump administration that absolutely murdered us. We're authorized to hire 180 agents per year for the next 3 years to get us back up to par staffing, but FLETC has already told us no-can-do, they can only give us 100-110 seats per year, which is barely above our normal attrition and especially bad considering the post-9/11 surge hires are about to hit retirement eligibility.

All because the Service loses more agents than they can feasibly hire and train. They're taking up a massive amount of seats at CITP and still only net a few agents per year due to their attrition. If anyone needs to establish their own primary/basic program, it's them, simply for no other reason than the impact they're having on the rest of federal LE.

[psalms144.1]

I could actually see the training efficiency thing. We're in a similar bind.....not necessarily because we're hemorrhaging agents but because we had a hiring freeze under the Trump administration that absolutely murdered us. We're authorized to hire 180 agents per year for the next 3 years to get us back up to par staffing, but FLETC has already told us no-can-do, they can only give us 100-110 seats per year, which is barely above our normal attrition and especially bad considering the post-9/11 surge hires are about to hit retirement eligibility.

All because the Service loses more agents than they can feasibly hire and train. They're taking up a massive amount of seats at CITP and still only net a few agents per year due to their attrition. If anyone needs to establish their own primary/basic program, it's them, simply for no other reason than the impact they're having on the rest of federal LE.I completely agree that USSS needs its own academy. I don't buy that doing it at any FLETC campus is the right answer. Through put on the FLETC ranges is ALWAYS the LIMFAC on class size, and range availability there is rarer than a Brunswick hooker without some kind of STD.

If my agency or any other wants to establish their own academy and really control through-put, it can't be at FLETC. Hell, the default used to be to use Artesia for overflow courses, but then between USBP flooding the zone and using Artesia as a holding camp for unaccompanied minors, I don't think there's any room at the inn there, either.

Maybe there's enough capacity at Cheltenham for a smaller agency to use it as it's primary academy, but Glynco is swamped (pun intended).

[blues]

Back in the old days, agencies would "beg" agents not to jump ship when recruited by other outfits with more "sex appeal", and sometimes, according to what I heard, there would be an agreement between various agencies not to fish in each other's ponds.

It got awkward at times. I was being recruited by Customs to move down to Miami but they specified I had to already be a GS-12, while my current agency was promising me that promotion and at the same asking me, (firmly), not to jump ship once I was promoted to that next grade. They didn't know that I had already been offered a job down there. (Customs was hated by many outfits for poaching agents from other federal LE agencies.)

I got the promotion and a few months later I was gone...not out of spite but because I couldn't afford not to take the opportunity when presented.

Back then the Basic was always at FLETC, and advanced courses were generally a combination of FLETC, agency's own training at FLETC and / or offsites...but transfer between agencies was never (or rarely) problematic. Just usually had to go to the other agency's advanced / specialized training course if they deemed necessary.

Sounds like things are becoming more of a crap shoot in every dimension of the job...and clearly not necessarily for the better.

[DamonL]

I could actually see the training efficiency thing. We're in a similar bind.....not necessarily because we're hemorrhaging agents but because we had a hiring freeze under the Trump administration that absolutely murdered us. We're authorized to hire 180 agents per year for the next 3 years to get us back up to par staffing, but FLETC has already told us no-can-do, they can only give us 100-110 seats per year, which is barely above our normal attrition and especially bad considering the post-9/11 surge hires are about to hit retirement eligibility.

All because the Service loses more agents than they can feasibly hire and train. They're taking up a massive amount of seats at CITP and still only net a few agents per year due to their attrition. If anyone needs to establish their own primary/basic program, it's them, simply for no other reason than the impact they're having on the rest of federal LE.

I know a recruiter who traveled a lot before Covid hit. His travel was shut down for a while during Covid. I am not sure if that impacted the pipeline or not. I know they still found ways to BEX applicants.

This understaffed thing is not new. Hire a bunch, lose a bunch. It seems to depend on politics and budgets of the moment; defund the police, border problem, terrorist bombing. So just getting hiring numbers is one thing. Attrition depends on the work/life part. At some point people figure out if they want to sign on or make a change.

[Le Français]

Having said all that, I went through an Agency-specific Basic course way back before electricity, and still got grandfathered into my current agency, because it was deemed to be "equivalent."

Good point; many agencies consider DEA, FBI, and USPIS basic academies to be the equivalent of CITP, even though those are not FLETC programs. As HSI, NCIS, USSS, etc., move in that direction, it might not do much for retention.

I’d be curious to know how USSS SAs who came from UD through internal training are faring as they apply to other agencies.

[HCM]

I completely agree that USSS needs its own academy. I don't buy that doing it at any FLETC campus is the right answer. Through put on the FLETC ranges is ALWAYS the LIMFAC on class size, and range availability there is rarer than a Brunswick hooker without some kind of STD.

If my agency or any other wants to establish their own academy and really control through-put, it can't be at FLETC. Hell, the default used to be to use Artesia for overflow courses, but then between USBP flooding the zone and using Artesia as a holding camp for unaccompanied minors, I don't think there's any room at the inn there, either.

Maybe there's enough capacity at Cheltenham for a smaller agency to use it as it's primary academy, but Glynco is swamped (pun intended).

There is not excess capacity at Cheltenham was designed to provide ranges and driving tracks for in service training and qualification of in-service FLEOs based in DC. There is no housing or DFAC and no real room to add them.

Charleston would be the an option but most of the ranges and driving tracks are located on the nearby Naval Weapons Station which means bussing students.

[psalms144.1]

There is not excess capacity at Cheltenham was designed to provide ranges and driving tracks for in service training and qualification of in-service FLEOs based in DC. There is no housing or DFAC and no real room to add them.

Charleston would be the an option but most of the ranges and driving tracks are located on the nearby Naval Weapons Station which means bussing students.Totally get the limits of Cheltenham - it would have to be a traditional TDY scenario with folks living off campus - meaning per diem would be a lot spendier. Hadn't thought about Charleston, though I know from 20 years experience what an ENORMOUS PITA it is trying to get consistent use of base ranges on Navy bases, so that's probably not any better.

[HCM]

Totally get the limits of Cheltenham - it would have to be a traditional TDY scenario with folks living off campus - meaning per diem would be a lot spendier. Hadn't thought about Charleston, though I know from 20 years experience what an ENORMOUS PITA it is trying to get consistent use of base ranges on Navy bases, so that's probably not any better.

They are on the navy base but FLETC built the ranges and driving track area when the USBP Academy was there so there are not the usual DOD hassles other than all rifle rounds must be lead free / frangible due to SDZ issues.

[Gadfly]

Like other have mentioned above... back in the pre 9/11 days, INS special agents got a version of CITP that was one week shorter than everyone else, just make jumping ship a pain in the ass for them. Knowing you have to do 12weeks of CITP over again, PLUS the new agency basic, makes jumping ship a "no go" for many.

Pre 9/11, I had put in to go to US Customs, and was told under the table I was going to get an offer, but 9/11 ended that. After the merger, I was promoted from Agent to Special agent... but that meant a trip back to Fletc for CITP. They ran out of money, and I was sent home with no badge or gun for almost one year, until funding came back, and I was sent to the new ICE basic academy. All so I could go back to the same cubicle, in the same building, doing the exact same job I was doing before the merger. During the time I did not have a badge and gun, I was still signing court documents, arresting folks, issuing NTAs, and filling out affidavits... it was a very "gray area' for me.

A few years backs, when I was teaching at FLETC, HSI management was talking seriously about breaking out of FLETC CITP, and creating their own program. They even talked of leaving GLYNCO all together, and moving shop to Ft Benning to build their own facility. Allegedly, the could get the land they need at Benning for free, the issue would be building the structures, and staffing things like a chow hall and motor pool. I doubt it will ever leave Glynco, but breaking away from the traditional CITP model is a strong possibility. The say it will shorten the total time at the academy by 4 weeks if the skip the redundant stuff they had to repeat between the two programs.... the bonus would be to keep agents from leaving for greener pastures. We don't get a ton leaving, but we have lost a few to Dept of Commerce and various OIGs, where they always have nights and weekends off, and no midnight call outs.

[HCM]

Like other have mentioned above... back in the pre 9/11 days, INS special agents got a version of CITP that was one week shorter than everyone else, just make jumping ship a pain in the ass for them. Knowing you have to do 12weeks of CITP over again, PLUS the new agency basic, makes jumping ship a "no go" for many.

Pre 9/11, I had put in to go to US Customs, and was told under the table I was going to get an offer, but 9/11 ended that. After the merger, I was promoted from Agent to Special agent... but that meant a trip back to Fletc for CITP. They ran out of money, and I was sent home with no badge or gun for almost one year, until funding came back, and I was sent to the new ICE basic academy. All so I could go back to the same cubicle, in the same building, doing the exact same job I was doing before the merger. During the time I did not have a badge and gun, I was still signing court documents, arresting folks, issuing NTAs, and filling out affidavits... it was a very "gray area' for me.

A few years backs, when I was teaching at FLETC, HSI management was talking seriously about breaking out of FLETC CITP, and creating their own program. They even talked of leaving GLYNCO all together, and moving shop to Ft Benning to build their own facility. Allegedly, the could get the land they need at Benning for free, the issue would be building the structures, and staffing things like a chow hall and motor pool. I doubt it will ever leave Glynco, but breaking away from the traditional CITP model is a strong possibility. The say it will shorten the total time at the academy by 4 weeks if the skip the redundant stuff they had to repeat between the two programs.... the bonus would be to keep agents from leaving for greener pastures. We don't get a ton leaving, but we have lost a few to Dept of Commerce and various OIGs, where they always have nights and weekends off, and no midnight call outs.

One of the things that keeps agencies at FLETC is the total cost. Including lodging and per diem. FT Benning could work if they built housing on base and paid to have students eat in the Army DFAC. That still doesn’t account for student transport to snd from specific training areas like ranges and driving tracks.

[TGS]

One of the things that keeps agencies at FLETC is the total cost. Including lodging and per diem. FT Benning could work if they built housing on base and paid to have students eat in the Army DFAC. That still doesn’t account for student transport to snd from specific training areas like ranges and driving tracks.

When we built our new training center we were approved X dollars and that included a chow hall and on campus lodging. It took a lot of fighting because some Georgia congresscritters wanted all the money to go to their constituents down at FLETC, even though Glynco was entirely unable to support what we needed in any way.

So fast forward to the middle of building and congress all the sudden says, "Whoa! This is way too expensive, we can't believe we approved this. We're cutting your budget in half". So, we dropped the chow hall and lodging. A year later, congress goes, "Whoa! This is costing so much money! Why is it costing you so much to operate this place, and how can we lower the costs!?"

Well, you could let us build lodging and a chow hall like originally planned instead of making us bus people in from an hour away, all staying at hotels on full per diem. Gee, idk, maybe that would be an idea to consider.....

Congress is an absolute clown show.

[HCM]

When we built our new training center we were approved X dollars and that included a chow hall and on campus lodging. It took a lot of fighting because some Georgia congresscritters wanted all the money to go to their constituents down at FLETC, even though Glynco was entirely unable to support what we needed in any way.

So fast forward to the middle of building and congress all the sudden says, "Whoa! This is way too expensive, we can't believe we approved this. We're cutting your budget in half". So, we dropped the chow hall and lodging. A year later, congress goes, "Whoa! This is costing so much money! Why is it costing you so much to operate this place, and how can we lower the costs!?"

Well, you could let us build lodging and a chow hall like originally planned instead of making us bus people in from an hour away, all staying at hotels on full per diem. Gee, idk, maybe that would be an idea to consider.....

Congress is an absolute clown show.

Georgia Congress critters have constituents at “Flea-Tec” but would not recognize FLETC if pronounced properly…