Columbus Ohio 04/20/21 OIS

[LittleLebowski]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eCdzF-4aUY

[LittleLebowski]

70447

70448

[wvincent]

Dude, that can't be right. It doesn't match any of the comments on Twitter.
Where's the footage of where he just walked up and straight murdered "baby girl"?

If I was that girl in pink, I would be screaming "thank you" for stopping Stabby McStabby from the top of my lungs.

[RevolverRob]

Surely you jest. No one is ever shot by the police, because they were armed and doing bad shit.

Edit; I didn't listen to the audio or watch the whole news video. Did they say, "The woman shot by police appeared to have a knife in her hand"?

Because that's what they keep saying about Adam Toledo, "He appeared to have an object, which could have been a gun..."

The mental hoops these folks are jumping through these days. "Well, we don't know for sure it was a gun/knife/stick/baseball bat." We don't know for sure the sun is going to rise tomorrow...but we're all pretty damned confident that it will.

[Lon]

That mayor makes me wanna puke.

[RoyGBiv]

Amazing reaction time by that officer. Props.

[JohnO]

He did his job. 100% good shoot.

[SiriusBlunder]

deleted

[HCountyGuy]

Unfortunately the war drums are already being beaten about this. Some shits even going so far as to insinuate it’s a “revenge killing” over the Chauvin verdict.

The bodycam video in this is quite damning to those making such bullshit claims and needs to be aired endlessly like every video of supposed brutality so the facts can’t be ignored. Those stills like LL shared should be the highlight as well.

[wvincent]

And just like that, the video went down, hmmm..............

[Sensei]

This problem would go away if people would stop doing racist shit like calling the cops every time someone is trying to murder them.

[RJ]

CNN via MSN reporting “girl holding a knife” shot and killed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/columbus-ohio-shooting-police-officer-shot-and-killed-15-year-old-girl-holding-a-knife-police-say-and-bodycam-video-shows/ar-BB1fSiD5

[TGS]

70447

70448

Thanks for sharing these screen grabs.

[JHC]

Amazing reaction time by that officer. Props.

And how!!! That was some solid rescue shot work in that vid. Pull a shot and he could hit the girl in pink

[JHC]

CNN via MSN reporting “girl holding a knife” shot and killed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/columbus-ohio-shooting-police-officer-shot-and-killed-15-year-old-girl-holding-a-knife-police-say-and-bodycam-video-shows/ar-BB1fSiD5

CNN this morning is going over that vid at normal speed and freeze framing the screen shot of the knife drawn back for a thrust. Also highlighted police spokesman’s comment that the officer’s action was taken to save the life of a teenage girl.

[LittleLebowski]

And how!!! That was some solid rescue shot work in that vid. Pull a shot and he could hit the girl in pink

Yup. That cop saved a life.

[LittleLebowski]

70450

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[LittleLebowski]

And just like that, the video went down, hmmm..............


https://youtu.be/0mnaktDK_nw

[Whirlwind06]

Another link the to video.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1384703331877130241

I see LL found a better one than the twitter link I found.

[Caballoflaco]

Just further proof that BLM doesn’t care about the lives of black people who are killed by other black people.

[fixer]

Columbus PD got that footage out, and slow-mowed, so fast it was almost amusing.

That saved the community a whole heap of trouble. And it likely saved another cop from needlessly going to jail.

I actually think they are showing the way forward on this.

The BLMANTIFA narrative needs to get put down good, hard, and fast before it becomes another 'George Floyd' situation. Releasing the footage quickly like this goes along way.

[Bergeron]

Excellent analysis, fixer. I've heard and read almost exactly the same idea of getting the narrative out first and best in the context of armed conflict between nations, and just as you wrote, this strategy appears to have saved a potentially great deal of trouble for Columbus.

[trailrunner]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Maybe the cop should have holstered his gun and waited for the social services worker to show up to defuse the situation. If it's only civilians stabbing other civilians - so what? Let it go. Just stand down and don't risk your career. Isn't that what the peaceful protesters want? Isn't that their vision of police reform?

[blues]

She was mostly peaceful between thrusts with the knife.

[Hambo]

I had no idea what split times are on prison stabbings, so I did an experiment. I set my phone timer for two seconds, and had my wife initiate it, and for two seconds I went to town with a 3" fixed blade. I sunk it 12 times before I heard the buzzer. If the officer had hesitated to shoot, pink girl would have gotten another 4-5 stab wounds. Just something for the "she shouldn't have been shot" crowd to think about.

[Cory]

I had no idea what split times are on prison stabbings, so I did an experiment. I set my phone timer for two seconds, and had my wife initiate it, and for two seconds I went to town with a 3" fixed blade. I sunk it 12 times before I heard the buzzer. If the officer had hesitated to shoot, pink girl would have gotten another 4-5 stab wounds. Just something for the "she shouldn't have been shot" crowd to think about.

I vaguely remember Varg Freeborn discussing that very topic somewhere. He isn't a real in vogue instructor but I think his knife experience, and legal process experience has value.

[JohnO]

Later that night, a gathering of concerned citizens hoping Footlocker was going to open with a 100% Off everything sale.

https://twitter.com/danpearlman/status/1384678942473396226

[blues]

I had no idea what split times are on prison stabbings, so I did an experiment. I set my phone timer for two seconds, and had my wife initiate it, and for two seconds I went to town with a 3" fixed blade. I sunk it 12 times before I heard the buzzer. If the officer had hesitated to shoot, pink girl would have gotten another 4-5 stab wounds. Just something for the "she shouldn't have been shot" crowd to think about.

Apparently you can't make people see what they don't want to see. If the truth doesn't fit the desired narrative, the truth has to go.

"Holding a knife". "Swinging a knife". This is what some news outlets report instead of "attacking" another with a knife.

If it were a child or adult of another race / ethnic group, the police might well be lauded for saving the life of the girl in the pink outfit.

It's hard to see the truth when you intentionally wear blinders.

[fixer]

Use code BLM for 100% discount at Nike.

[LittleLebowski]

Amazing reaction time by that officer. Props.

What a difficult situation to be called into, to say the least.

[Totem Polar]

Columbus PD got that footage out, and slow-mowed, so fast it was almost amusing.

That saved the community a whole heap of trouble. And it likely saved another cop from needlessly going to jail.

I actually think they are showing the way forward on this.

The BLMANTIFA narrative needs to get put down good, hard, and fast before it becomes another 'George Floyd' situation. Releasing the footage quickly like this goes along way.

QFMFT. This, all the way.

[LittleLebowski]

Apparently NPR cannot see the knife the rest of the world can see.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/20/989342784/16-year-old-black-girl-who-called-for-help-fatally-shot-by-police-ohio-family-sa


Body camera footage shows an officer getting out of his patrol car as he responds to a commotion on the driveway of a home.

As he approaches a group of people standing and shouting on the driveway, he asks, "What's going on?" Seconds later Bryant and another girl begin fighting in front of the officer.

Bryant can be seen pushing the girl to the ground. She then approaches a second girl and throws her against a car parked on the driveway. The officer shouts "Get down!" three times, pulls out his gun and shoots in Bryant's direction at least four times and she falls to the ground.

As the officer approaches her, a knife can be seen close to her.

[RevolverRob]

Columbus PD got that footage out, and slow-mowed, so fast it was almost amusing.

That saved the community a whole heap of trouble. And it likely saved another cop from needlessly going to jail.

I actually think they are showing the way forward on this.

The BLMANTIFA narrative needs to get put down good, hard, and fast before it becomes another 'George Floyd' situation. Releasing the footage quickly like this goes along way.

About a dozen (15?) years ago, when body cams first really started getting big, I was a strong advocate for them being worn at all times by officers. I got a lot of push back from officers at that time, "We're not doing anything wrong. You can't just film us constantly!" - The point I made in response was that body cams would exonerate police more often than incriminate.

We're now seeing exactly that. Rapid analysis of body cam footage and release of said footage more often exonerates officers than incriminates them. This is how you defeat a counter narrative, rapid release of video with analysis to demonstrate what actually happened.

-

I genuinely think YouTube is a scourge on our planet.

[Hambo]

Apparently you can't make people see what they don't want to see. If the truth doesn't fit the desired narrative, the truth has to go.

"Holding a knife". "Swinging a knife". This is what some news outlets report instead of "attacking" another with a knife.

If it were a child or adult of another race / ethnic group, the police might well be lauded for saving the life of the girl in the pink outfit.

It's hard to see the truth when you intentionally wear blinders.

You're right, of course. Having seen these events or the results, we know that the decision matrix was this: shoot right the fuck now or pink girl dies. Wait, hesitate, yell some commands, and pink girl dies and you still shoot the stabber. It's one dead or two, with no option C. I hate to see it come down to letting the victim die so your legal justification for shooting is "better", but that's the road we're on.

[LittleLebowski]

$10 says that Biden's AG "probes" Columbus Ohio PD.

https://apnews.com/article/george-floyd-verdict-police-reform-DOJ-e24dd1a390a781af3495fa1e0271f492

[Borderland]

$10 says that Biden's AG "probes" Columbus Ohio PD.

https://apnews.com/article/george-floyd-verdict-police-reform-DOJ-e24dd1a390a781af3495fa1e0271f492

I wouldn't take that bet unless you gave me some odds, like 10 to 1 or something like that. I'd be stretched way out there. :D

[Borderland]

This problem would go away if people would stop doing racist shit like calling the cops every time someone is trying to murder them.

Things should get better when response times creep up to 30 minutes or more.

[scw2]

Apparently you can't make people see what they don't want to see. If the truth doesn't fit the desired narrative, the truth has to go.

"Holding a knife". "Swinging a knife". This is what some news outlets report instead of "attacking" another with a knife.

If it were a child or adult of another race / ethnic group, the police might well be lauded for saving the life of the girl in the pink outfit.

It's hard to see the truth when you intentionally wear blinders.

Correct. I've seen several people insisting that the police should have de-escalated, used a taser, or gone hands-on in that moment. Even when people mention that the girl in pink was about to get stabbed or police have no obligation to get stabbed, these idiots still insist on holding that position. The worst part are the Christians I see posting along these lines, who should believe in the sanctity of life, but apparently that only applies to the person attacking others with lethal weapons.

[Hot Sauce]

Thank goodness that bodycam technology is proliferating everywhere in the country. Win-win for all parties.

[Doc_Glock]

I had no idea what split times are on prison stabbings, so I did an experiment. I set my phone timer for two seconds, and had my wife initiate it, and for two seconds I went to town with a 3" fixed blade. I sunk it 12 times before I heard the buzzer. If the officer had hesitated to shoot, pink girl would have gotten another 4-5 stab wounds. Just something for the "she shouldn't have been shot" crowd to think about.

About 0.2-0.3s is typical. You are faster!

[Kanye Wyoming]

70462

[LittleLebowski]

Columbus PD got that footage out, and slow-mowed, so fast it was almost amusing.

That saved the community a whole heap of trouble. And it likely saved another cop from needlessly going to jail.

I actually think they are showing the way forward on this.

The BLMANTIFA narrative needs to get put down good, hard, and fast before it becomes another 'George Floyd' situation. Releasing the footage quickly like this goes along way.

I don't think that the PD nor the cop are out of the woods yet, unfortunately. We are no longer a rational nation.

[blues]

Here's a tweet from Obama star Valerie Jarrett:

https://twitter.com/valeriejarrett/status/1384888056621174786?s=21



Valerie Jarrett
@ValerieJarrett
·
2h
A Black teenage girl named Ma’Khia Bryant was killed because a police officer immediately decided to shoot her multiple times in order to break up a knife fight. Demand accountability. Fight for justice. #BlackLivesMatter.

What would she be calling for if they had just let the other girl be stabbed to death? She'd be accusing the police of racism for letting her be harmed. Save her...racist. Let her die...racist.

This tweet is two hours old. She's had a full day to absorb this information and still comes to the wrong conclusion.

I can only conclude that she wants to foment civil disturbance...despite the fact that the police got it completely right.

She should be prosecuted for inciting a riot.

[okie john]

Strong work by the officer in saving Pink Girl's life and strong work by his department in getting out ahead of the spin.

CPD video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBsk9zjdZp8&t=100s

I have a question: at around 1:30 in the full-speed version (4:30 in slo-mo) a woman with dreadlocks gets pushed out of the crowd, followed by a man in a hoodie who runs out of the crowd and kicks her in the head.

Could he face a Felony Murder charge for that assault since someone died in this event?


Okie John

[JohnO]

Dispatcher: 911, what's your emergency?

Caller: Blah Blah Blah send help!

Dispatcher: What color are you?

Caller: What??

Dispatcher: I need to know your ethnicity in order to dispatch the appropriate color help.

[okie john]

A Black teenage girl named Ma’Khia Bryant was killed because a police officer immediately decided to shoot her multiple times in order to break up a knife fight.

She clearly does not understand how knife fights work or how they typically end.


Okie John

[blues]

She clearly does not understand how knife fights work or how they typically end.


Okie John

I'm not buying that for a moment.

[TheNewbie]

She clearly does not understand how knife fights work or how they typically end.


Okie John


She didn’t care. The left doesn’t care.


None of this is about police reform, it’s about destroying the society and rebuilding it as “they” see fit.

[LittleLebowski]

How to embed videos into posts.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?46243-How-to-embed-videos-into-posts

[Wise_A]

Dispatcher: 911, what's your emergency?

Caller: Blah Blah Blah send help!

Dispatcher: What color are you?

Caller: What??

Dispatcher: I need to know your ethnicity in order to dispatch the appropriate color help.

Pet peeve, but it's where. Where is always the first question. Confirming callback number is usually the next. After that is what.

And then we ask you what color you are, to determine what kind of service you get.

[kwb377]

She clearly does not understand how knife fights work or how they typically end.


Columbus PD provided a teaching moment then...

[Lon]

Strong work by the officer in saving Pink Girl's life and strong work by his department in getting out ahead of the spin.

CPD video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBsk9zjdZp8&t=100s

I have a question: at around 1:30 in the full-speed version (4:30 in slo-mo) a woman with dreadlocks gets pushed out of the crowd, followed by a man in a hoodie who runs out of the crowd and kicks her in the head.

Could he face a Felony Murder charge for that assault since someone died in this event?


Okie John

No. Not under Ohio law. At least with the facts that we know right now.

[okie john]

No. Not under Ohio law. At least with the facts that we know right now.

Thanks.


Okie John

[the Schwartz]

I'm not buying that for a moment.

Neither am I. Those pushing the narrative (that white cops are racist in taking justifiable lethal action) are going to intentionally ignore--or manipulate-- any fact set to fit the narrative because that is what is necessary to achieve their goal: sow division, hatred, and unrest.

Right out of Alinsky's playbook.

[RevolverRob]

Thanks LittleLebowski for the stills from the video posted upthread. I used them thrice today to counter the narrative among colleagues that the decedent was "unarmed" and "shot in cold blood". Turns out even leftist liberal academics can change their tunes. They saw the stills, rewatched the video, put it all together, and went, "Oh...he saved the other girl's life."

At least one of them followed up with, "Wait...why isn't this being reported this way?"

Some thinking occurred.

[blues]

Thanks LittleLebowski for the stills from the video posted upthread. I used them thrice today to counter the narrative among colleagues that the decedent was "unarmed" and "shot in cold blood". Turns out even leftist liberal academics can change their tunes. They saw the stills, rewatched the video, put it all together, and went, "Oh...he saved the other girl's life."

At least one of them followed up with, "Wait...why isn't this being reported this way?"

Some thinking occurred.

Until Valerie Jarrett comes to that realization, she'll have to settle for playing the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. If she only had a brain...

[Shoresy]

Until Valerie Jarrett comes to that realization, she'll have to settle for playing the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. If she only had a brain...

There’s a difference between Stupid and Evil.

[blues]

There’s a difference between Stupid and Evil.

Why not both? :cool:

[Inkwell 41]

There’s a difference between Stupid and Evil.

Both can be true. Especially in Valerie Jarrett’s case.

She’s trying to cancel the narrative that CPD put out there by releasing the body cam footage.

Agree with okie John... straight up Saul Alinsky tactics.

[Joe in PNG]

Other Twits are insisting that knife fights are playful, harmless teenage hi-jinks.

Apparently, they're not Forged in Fire fans.

[Guerrero]

Other Twits are insisting that knife fights are playful, harmless teenage hi-jinks.

Apparently, they're not Forged in Fire fans.

The Let-Teenagers-Knife-Fight Caucus (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-let-teenagers-knife-fight-caucus/)

[blues]

#LetThemFight (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=LetThemFight)

I'm down with that.

It works for Chicago.

[Moylan]

Thanks LittleLebowski for the stills from the video posted upthread. I used them thrice today to counter the narrative among colleagues that the decedent was "unarmed" and "shot in cold blood". Turns out even leftist liberal academics can change their tunes. They saw the stills, rewatched the video, put it all together, and went, "Oh...he saved the other girl's life."

At least one of them followed up with, "Wait...why isn't this being reported this way?"

Some thinking occurred.

That's good to hear. However, one wonders whether these leftist academics will actually change their tunes for more than a measure or two. I mean, the next time they see this kind of reporting, will they actually say "you know, there's probably a lot more to the story than I'm being told, and I'd better withhold judgment until I find out what really happened."? The realist in me says nope.

[Joe in PNG]

And LeBron does something really stupid:

LeBron James’ ‘you’re next’ tweet about officer who shot Ma’Khia Bryant got deleted (but here it is) (https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/04/21/lebron-james-youre-next-tweet-about-officer-who-shot-makhia-bryant-got-deleted-but-here-it-is/)


YOU’RE NEXT ⏳ #ACCOUNTABILITY pic.twitter.com/NnBfz9zdWq

— LeBron James (@KingJames) April 21, 2021

[Moylan]

And LeBron does something really stupid:

LeBron James’ ‘you’re next’ tweet about officer who shot Ma’Khia Bryant got deleted (but here it is) (https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/04/21/lebron-james-youre-next-tweet-about-officer-who-shot-makhia-bryant-got-deleted-but-here-it-is/)

Holy shit.

[blues]

And LeBron does something really stupid:

LeBron James’ ‘you’re next’ tweet about officer who shot Ma’Khia Bryant got deleted (but here it is) (https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2021/04/21/lebron-james-youre-next-tweet-about-officer-who-shot-makhia-bryant-got-deleted-but-here-it-is/)


I despise that MF'er. Always have.

[camel]

With all of this going on. I will not blame one police officer for standing there and watching something like this happen.
Just fill out your reports. It’s safer. Hope this officer took precautions Against doxxing

[Joe in PNG]

Wonder if he'll face any sort of official pushback for that?

[shootist26]

Wonder if he'll face any sort of official pushback for that?Lol

[Shellback]

Great shooting by the Officer.

Only minutes and a few miles away... (https://www.10tv.com/article/news/local/1-killed-in-southeast-columbus-shooting/530-cc808463-3104-41f3-95e7-048d19788773) 15-year-old boy charged in shooting death of another 15-year-old in southeast Columbus.

Where is the outrage?

[shootist26]

I despise that MF'er. Always have.

He's going to be an OH politician (governor, senator, representative?) within 15 years. The bread and circus crowd will sweep him into power.

Enjoy.

[Shoresy]

Wonder if he'll face any sort of official pushback for that?

The Chinese couldn’t care less.

[Joe in PNG]

The Chinese couldn’t care less.

Hell, they're probably happy he's saying it.

[Joe in PNG]

And here's a prime example of Media slant.

The AP headline: Police in Columbus, Ohio fatally shoot Black teenage girl minutes after George Floyd murder verdict (https://www.9news.com.au/world/columbus-ohio-police-fatally-shoot-black-teen-girl-with-knife/36c3e5f3-41e8-4384-a630-4b99ed036667)

Notice how the article implies a couple of untrue facts:

1) that the racist cops are racist in shooting an innocent black girl. Because racist.
2) this was deliberately done in reaction to the Floyd verdict (see point 1).

Then, here's the lede:

The fatal police shooting of Ma'Khia Bryant, a Black teenager seen on video charging at two people with a knife, came within minutes of the verdict in George Floyd's killing — causing outrage by some over the continued use of lethal force by Columbus police.
This continues the point above, while implying that there was no real immediate danger that required lethal force from poor innocent minority minor.

The next paragraph in the story is worded in such a way that can be misconstrued that the shooting, not the release of video was "a departure from protocol"- then re-enforces that idea by immediately referencing other shootings:

Officials with the Columbus Division of Police released footage of the shooting Tuesday night just hours after it happened, a departure from protocol as the force faces immense scrutiny from the public following a series of recent high-profile police killings that have led to clashes.

Skip a couple of paragraphs, and the story tries to downplay the potential lethality of the weapon used:

From a few feet away, with people on either side of him, the officer fires four shots, and Bryant slumps to the ground. A black-handled blade similar to a kitchen knife or steak knife lies on the sidewalk next to her.

And in approved MSM fashion, a point that actually contradicts the headline appears down towards the bottom:

The shooting happened about 25 minutes before a judge read the verdict convicting former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin of murder and manslaughter in the killing of Floyd.
Yet the headline says "Police in Columbus, Ohio fatally shoot Black teenage girl George Floyd murder verdict". The lede reads [B]"came within minutes of the verdict".

And the rest of the article is the usual rubbish, with the usual blather by Circleback Jen.

[RoyGBiv]

Thanks @LittleLebowski (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=6) for the stills from the video posted upthread. I used them thrice today to counter the narrative among colleagues that the decedent was "unarmed" and "shot in cold blood". Turns out even leftist liberal academics can change their tunes. They saw the stills, rewatched the video, put it all together, and went, "Oh...he saved the other girl's life."

At least one of them followed up with, "Wait...why isn't this being reported this way?"

Some thinking occurred.

I'd love to read the comments from the family of the intended stabbing victim.

Buller?

[Gadfly]

It’s a joke for now... in 6 months? Maybe not....

70467

[Joe in PNG]

I'd love to read the comments from the family of the intended stabbing victim.

Buller?

I suspect that they will either keep quiet or speak against the officer's actions because they are rightfully afraid of repercussions otherwise.

[Caballoflaco]

It’s a joke for now... in 6 months? Maybe not....

70467

“Is there anything I can say or do for you today to get you to stop stabbing me? Can we at least talk about why you keep stabbing me?”

[Gadfly]

I suspect that they will either keep quiet or speak against the officer's actions because they are rightfully afraid of repercussions otherwise.

They still have to live in the neighborhood. And the risk of being ostracized or having their tires slashed every night is real.

But in the back of their minds, I am sure the realize they could be out casket shopping for their own child. They have to realize that the officer did what was unfortunately needed. The only choice available to the officer was which kid would end up dead.

[Gadfly]

“Is there anything I can say or do for you today to get you to stop stabbing me? Can we at least talk about why you keep stabbing me?”

#VerbalJudo is the best Judo...

[the Schwartz]

And here's a prime example of Media slant.

The AP headline: Police in Columbus, Ohio fatally shoot Black teenage girl minutes after George Floyd murder verdict (https://www.9news.com.au/world/columbus-ohio-police-fatally-shoot-black-teen-girl-with-knife/36c3e5f3-41e8-4384-a630-4b99ed036667)

Notice how the article implies a couple of untrue facts:

1) that the racist cops are racist in shooting an innocent black girl. Because racist.
2) this was deliberately done in reaction to the Floyd verdict (see point 1).

Then, here's the lede:

This continues the point above, while implying that there was no real immediate danger that required lethal force from poor innocent minority minor.

The next paragraph in the story is worded in such a way that can be misconstrued that the shooting, not the release of video was "a departure from protocol"- then re-enforces that idea by immediately referencing other shootings:


Skip a couple of paragraphs, and the story tries to downplay the potential lethality of the weapon used:


And in approved MSM fashion, a point that actually contradicts the headline appears down towards the bottom:

Yet the headline says "Police in Columbus, Ohio fatally shoot Black teenage girl George Floyd murder verdict". The lede reads [B]"came within minutes of the verdict".

And the rest of the article is the usual rubbish, with the usual blather by Circleback Jen.

As with the rest of the media, why let a fine opportunity to fuel further animus and racial unrest go to waste?

#pushthenarrative (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=pushthenarrative) !

[Joe in PNG]

As with the rest of the media, why let a fine opportunity to fuel further animus and racial unrest go to waste?

#pushthenarrative (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=pushthenarrative) !

We're in need of Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether.

[Shoresy]

Why not both? :cool:

You're right, they're not mutually exclusive. My only issue with immediately snapping to "both" is that it can lead to underestimating an adversary. Such an underestimation can be a very dangerous mistake.

[blues]

You're right, they're not mutually exclusive. My only issue with immediately snapping to "both" is that it can lead to underestimating an adversary. Such an underestimation can be a very dangerous mistake.

Nah. I already knew she was the enemy. She just reminded me when she emerged from her burrow yesterday.

[Borderland]

Here's a tweet from Obama star Valerie Jarrett:

https://twitter.com/valeriejarrett/status/1384888056621174786?s=21



What would she be calling for if they had just let the other girl be stabbed to death? She'd be accusing the police of racism for letting her be harmed. Save her...racist. Let her die...racist.

This tweet is two hours old. She's had a full day to absorb this information and still comes to the wrong conclusion.

I can only conclude that she wants to foment civil disturbance...despite the fact that the police got it completely right.

She should be prosecuted for inciting a riot.

That's the only conclusion I can come up with.

I wonder what she might think about this situation if she had been the victim of a knife attack?

People have gone BSC over the police shooting anyone black, regardless of the situation.

I don't do FB or Twitter but I'm starting to see how people really feel about cops and blacks. Trying to erase a 100 years of injustice on the back of a cop in a few years, trying to do the job they were hired and trained to do. That isn't going to work.

I see some cities burning and the NG and police watching it all burn. That seems to be the goal of many progressives so maybe we should let that run it's course and access the damage after a few years. Fine with me, I'll just watch from my isolated location and post my thoughts from time to time.

[Moylan]

And here's a prime example of Media slant.

Great analysis. It's the norm--the liar can tell a lie with just a few words, but it often takes hundreds to actually explain that the lie really is a lie. And Americans don't have the attention spans required to pay attention for that long.

[RJ]

I see some cities burning and the NG and police watching it all burn. That seems to be the goal of many progressives so maybe we should let that run it's course and access the damage after a few years. Fine with me, I'll just watch from my isolated location and post my thoughts from time to time.

I am ashamed to say I agree with you.

And that depresses the crap out of me.

[blues]

Time to start calling up and training the P-F Volunteers at Fort Lebowski. I figure we might make a battalion.

[TheNewbie]

Time to start calling up and training the P-F Volunteers at Fort Lebowski. I figure we might make a battalion.



I'll handle Mexican food logistics.

[Borderland]

I am ashamed to say I agree with you.

And that depresses the crap out of me.

It depresses me also. I'm an old guy who has always thought people were better than this. To watch cities burn and crime given a free reign was never anything I could have imagined. I was around during the 60's and watched the riots but somehow I think this is different. There were no prominent political figures or celebs calling for people to riot. When did that become a good thing?

Social injustice exists and probably always will. To destroy the work and dreams of the average working middle class citizen is something I can't get my head around.

I support roof top Koreans.

[LittleLebowski]

70475

[Gadfly]

Sofia media is just... wow...


70476

70477

70478

70479

[LittleLebowski]

We have now entered the comedy phase.

1384849407401775108

70480

[LittleLebowski]

Fatal teen girl stabbing in Ohio. Good thing the cops weren’t there?

https://breaking911.com/cincinnati-girl-13-accused-of-killing-another-13-year-old-girl/

[Borderland]

VJ must be trying to get another job in the Biden Administration. Good luck.

[blues]

Fatal teen girl stabbing in Ohio. Good thing the cops weren’t there?

https://breaking911.com/cincinnati-girl-13-accused-of-killing-another-13-year-old-girl/

If only that elementary school teacher had been there.

Then again, I don't know if anyone is supposed to interfere with black on black crime. Racism.

[LittleLebowski]

We have now entered the comedy phase.

1384849407401775108

70480

We’ve got to get Cary Ritzler a job teaching with SouthNarc.

[BigDaddy]

It depresses me also. I'm an old guy who has always thought people were better than this. To watch cities burn and crime given a free reign was never anything I could have imagined. I was around during the 60's and watched the riots but somehow I think this is different. There were no prominent political figures or celebs calling for people to riot. When did that become a good thing?

Social injustice exists and probably always will. To destroy the work and dreams of the average working middle class citizen is something I can't get my head around.

I support roof top Koreans.


"I support roof top Koreans". That's worthy of a tee shirt IMHO. I think I'll get on it.

[TheNewbie]

We are seeing human nature do what human nature does, when it is disconnected from a value system based on standards derived from objective morality.

[HCM]

Then there is this mutt....


70482

Apparently his babysitters have already taken the threat down,

[Joe in PNG]

I wonder- if it was one of the "Let Teens Knife Fight Caucus" in pink (or their child/ grandchild/ current romantic fancy) being attacked by a person wielding a knife... and to be fair to most of the caucus, it was their armed bodyguard standing there watching the events unfold, would they want their guard to not shoot? Try to just disarm the attacker?

But, there's such a disconnect between "stuff that happens to me" and "stuff that happens to other people" that it's basically sociopathic. They cannot process that other people are people like they themselves are people no more than you could run the top rated 2021 video games on a Sinclair ZX81.

[HCountyGuy]

The fact ANYONE is second-guessing the justification of this shooting is ridiculous beyond what words can convey.

The ignorant opining that the officer should’ve tried de-escalating, going hands on or using a taser while the other girl was milliseconds away from possibly being killed is crushing what little faith in society I have left. I would submit anyone offering such alternatives be required to undergo psychiatric evaluation because they obviously can’t be right in the head.

We are well and truly screwed. God help us all.

[RevolverRob]

Sofia media is just... wow...


70476

70477

If that's what they want. Cool with me. I'm getting tired of watching cops get hammered for doing their jobs. Let's give 'em all pensions and send them home.

And when citizens get all Bernie Goetz on criminals, don't cry about it. You don't want the cops involved in your shit? They won't be. For better or for worse.

So when you pop off and someone administers an educational beat down on you? Tough shit.

You go to rob someone and get killed? Don't cry.

Steal someone's car and they find you and kill you in retribution? Too bad.

Fuck around, find out - will be the new national motto.

[HeavyDuty]

This is how we get no police - because no one will want the job.

[Palmguy]

While social media is not a particularly good place to go for intelligent discourse, the discussion about this shooting on Twitter etc is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in my life. I hope Sweet Meteor of Death comes soon and saves us all.

[JRB]

Having been in literally a 'teenage knife fight' -with the scars to prove it- in my misguided/ignorant/stupid youth, and witnessed many other knife fights in that time... these idiots have no idea how fast, messy, life altering, lethal, and fucked up a knife fight can be.
It's also routinely a type of fight that has two losers and no winners; having that knife of your own just gives you a chance to get your licks in before you bleed too much.

I wish there was some way to get that brutal, horrifying education out to these people. But as others in this thread have so accurately opined, the blinders are on. There's no room for the truth in the reality these people want.



I wonder- if it was one of the "Let Teens Knife Fight Caucus" in pink (or their child/ grandchild/ current romantic fancy) being attacked by a person wielding a knife... and to be fair to most of the caucus, it was their armed bodyguard standing there watching the events unfold, would they want their guard to not shoot? Try to just disarm the attacker?

But, there's such a disconnect between "stuff that happens to me" and "stuff that happens to other people" that it's basically sociopathic. They cannot process that other people are people like they themselves are people no more than you could run the top rated 2021 video games on a Sinclair ZX81.

First + 10 P-F geek points for the ZX81 reference!

Absolutely 100% accurate. It is sociopathic and narcissistic in the extreme; it's a particularly virulent, self-congratulating, delusional flavor of it where they circle-jerk themselves in their hugboxes about how accepting and open and progressive they are while simultaneously doing everything they can to separate themselves from the actual problems with the values & thinking they espouse.

Let homeless camp anywhere, just not my neighborhood
Let people do whatever drugs they want, just keep it away from my kids and schools
Give everyone a $15 minimum wage, just not my business
Disarm all the cops, blah blah blah, but if my wife is being assaulted I better see the fucking HRT in 30 seconds

Showing them the brutal truth and errors of their thought process starts beating down the walls of this cognitive dissonance, so that's why they keep the blinders on and dig their heels in as deep as possible when faced with actual truth.

Worse still, they can't even be consistent about this shit. If this LEO had happened upon two white teenagers with MAGA hats on in the exact same situation, these same fucking people would be cheering that officer on, and wishing he'd shot them both. Publicly, and to lots of 'likes' and applause and accolades.

[JohnO]

We have now entered the comedy phase.

1384849407401775108



Perhaps she should try her skills on Tom Kier.


https://youtu.be/ZzNO_0bNf5U

[LittleLebowski]

70492

[Totem Polar]

70492

Thanks to this post, I now know that something can make me deeply sad and literally cause me to laugh out loud at the same time. Excellent usage of meme kung fu, my friend.

Close up the internet and hit happy hour for breakfast, folks, we’re already done for today.

[Guerrero]

Perhaps she should try her skills on Tom Kier.


https://youtu.be/ZzNO_0bNf5U

I was thinking more of this:


https://youtu.be/5OGJelWaBUM


or this:



https://youtu.be/E61jnJe_1SI

[Hot Sauce]

Then there is this mutt....


70482

Apparently his babysitters have already taken the threat down,Is there a good basis for legal action by the officer against LeBron here?

[Moylan]

Is there a good basis for legal action by the officer against LeBron here?

I'm pretty sure Congress will impeach LeBron for inciting violence. There's a clear precedent for impeaching private citizens over tweets, right? So, it stands to reason...

[LittleLebowski]

Is there a good basis for legal action by the officer against LeBron here?

I'd chip in on legal fees.

[HCM]

Is there a good basis for legal action by the officer against LeBron here?

Criminal, likely not specific enough. Civil suit maybe....

[Robinson]

Having been in literally a 'teenage knife fight' -with the scars to prove it- in my misguided/ignorant/stupid youth, and witnessed many other knife fights in that time... these idiots have no idea how fast, messy, life altering, lethal, and fucked up a knife fight can be.

I had a guy pull a knife on me once and I was unarmed at the time. I hope to never ever be in that situation again. I was lucky the guy wasn't really skilled.

[JRB]

I had a guy pull a knife on me once and I was unarmed at the time. I hope to never ever be in that situation again. I was lucky the guy wasn't really skilled.

I shudder at the thought. Even warmed up with a great holster and technique, it's a total roll of the dice to get effective shot placement on such an assailant before they can stab the shit out of you.

This makes me look back on Mrs Elementary teacher's tweets and her 'training'. I wonder if she's got any idea of the canyon-sized gap between talking down a kid with a knife throwing a temper tantrum, and an adult sized asshole with a knife that is motivated and committed to doing you great bodily harm.

[Coyotesfan97]

Is there a good basis for legal action by the officer against LeBron here?

I’d file a criminal threats report and I’d get a good attorney from the Association’s legal package for the civil suit. Our Association is tied in with PLEA and the APA. They have a retainer list for OIS cases and they’d be able to refer to a top rate civil guy.

Fuck that dude!

[okie john]

I’d file a criminal threats report and I’d get a good attorney from the Association’s legal package for the civil suit. Our Association is tied in with PLEA and the APA. They have a retainer list for OIS cases and they’d be able to refer to a top rate civil guy.

Fuck that dude!

Seeing people like Lebron James bleed a few million dollars over statements like this might encourage others to choose their words more carefully.


Okie John

[Coyotesfan97]

Seeing people like Lebron James bleed a few million dollars over statements like this might encourage others to choose their words more carefully.


Okie John

Pour encourager les autres!

[blues]

Pour encourager les autres!

Morticia, you spoke French!

[Irelander]

We are seeing human nature do what human nature does, when it is disconnected from a value system based on standards derived from objective morality.

DING-DING-DING

+10000000000000%

[HCountyGuy]

I say we start utilizing liberal vernacular to shout down those trying to downplay the severity of the situation in offering “oh it’s just a knife fight the officer didn’t need to shoot her!”

To which the counter should be some variant of: “You, sir/madam, are obviously speaking from a position of privilege in having never experienced the sort of violence at play here and the gruesome results that can come from a person viciously cut or stabbed. I might suggest you shut up and check your privilege.”

[Cory]

I say we start utilizing liberal vernacular to shout down those trying to downplay the severity of the situation in offering “oh it’s just a knife fight the officer didn’t need to shoot her!”

To which the counter should be some variant of: “You, sir/madam, are obviously speaking from a position of privilege in having never experienced the sort of violence at play here and the gruesome results that can come from a person viciously cut or stabbed. I might suggest you shut up and check your privilege.”

I have no desire to play stupid games against stupid people. Plus, they have more experience at it.

State it like is. And if they don't like it, so be it.

[blues]

I have no desire to play stupid games against stupid people. Plus, they have more experience at it.

State it like is. And if they don't like it, so be it.

That's racist and spoken from your position of white privilege. How dare you keep to the facts?

[Hambo]

Maybe this news about the danger of stabbings will filter up to Columbus.

https://www.wptv.com/news/national/police-13-year-old-charged-in-ohio-after-allegedly-fatally-stabbing-another-13-year-old

[Palmguy]

Here’s a consolidated look at some of the idiocy that is running rampant. Apologies if this causes you to lose you will to live: https://twitter.com/jholmsted/status/1385266328005611520?s=21

[RevolverRob]

We have now entered the comedy phase.

1384849407401775108

70480

I thought about it for awhile...I wonder if some folks haven't realized this is a parody...

70529

[Caballoflaco]

From Palmguy’s twitter link


70531

[Joe in PNG]

Here’s a consolidated look at some of the idiocy that is running rampant. Apologies if this causes you to lose you will to live: https://twitter.com/jholmsted/status/1385266328005611520?s=21

Attention whores are going to attention whore.

[RevolverRob]

Pretty soon you won't have to move on a little farther down the line to learn these techniques, they'll be everywhere:

70538

[scw2]

Lebron when he finds out kids survived a knife fight

70539

[RevolverRob]

70540

70541

[Joe in PNG]

70540

But the panabas will keel...

[HCM]

I thought about it for awhile...I wonder if some folks haven't realized this is a parody...

70529

70543

[HCM]

70544

[HCM]

70545

[Totem Polar]

Pretty soon you won't have to move on a little farther down the line to learn these techniques, they'll be everywhere:

70538

I have that book.

[HCountyGuy]

And on this week’s episode of The Twilight Zone:

https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1385268007203602433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1385268007203602433%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawofficer.com%2Foj-simpson-lebron-james%2F

[blues]

And on this week’s episode of The Twilight Zone:

https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1385268007203602433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1385268007203602433%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawofficer.com%2Foj-simpson-lebron-james%2F

Apparently gone.

[Guerrero]

View from a neighbor's security camera:

1385305451428990978

[blues]

View from a neighbor's security camera:

1385305451428990978

Well, at least she clearly stated her intent, with excellent grammar.

[DC_P]

Nobody is talking about how a 14 yo girl tried to stab someone knowing the police were on the scene.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fJIdMG-2WQ

[Totem Polar]

And on this week’s episode of The Twilight Zone:

https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1385268007203602433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1385268007203602433%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lawofficer.com%2Foj-simpson-lebron-james%2F

What would that guy know about stabbing people to death, anyways? Like he’s some sort of expert on the topic...



:D

[Jim Watson]

Lebron James is a basketball player, is he not?
I refer you to Heinlein on the subject:

[T]here seems to have been an actual decline in rational thinking. The United States had become a place where entertainers and professional athletes were mistaken for people of importance. They were idolized and treated as leaders; their opinions were sought on everything and they took themselves just as seriously-after all, if an athlete is paid a million or more a year, he knows he is important ... so his opinions of foreign affairs and domestic policies must be important, too, even though he proves himself to be ignorant and subliterate every time he opens his mouth.

[AMC]

I confess, I'm tired of dancing around these topics. Of not speaking the plain, honest truth. The lies and distortions are now beyond absurd, and that is part of the plan. As Voltaire said, "Those who can make you believe absurdity, can make you commit atrocity." This last year has been an unremitting assault on the culture, laws, traditions and values of our civilization. And those attacks have been based on distortions, willful ignorance, and flat out lies.

For some time, I've been afraid of the internal developments I've been seeing in big city Law Enforcement. There has been a wholesale abandonment of the traditional law "enforcement" role, as it has always existed....i.e. a focus on those who have been considered "outlaws" due to their rejection of the larger societies laws and values. The Police, in this model, function as the enforcement arm of society for those laws and values. They also were intended to uphold the Rule of Law.....rather than Mob Rule or decree. Granted, this has been imperfectly applied throughout our history. Human societies and institutions are made up of imperfect, fallen human beings after all.

But in the last few years, there has been a concerted political effort, driven entirely from the political left, to upend that ideal in favor of a tribalist based approach to a redefined concept of "Justice". Our focus has slowly been turning away from those who society would traditionally have considered criminals....and turned towards the so called Law Abiding population. The concept of "Equity" is key to this movement.

Several years ago a Lieutenant in my department came up with a 'pledge' that all officers were encouraged to recite together out loud. It was big not only on the issue of biased policing....it included overt and direct calls to not tolerate, and to confront, bias on the part of members of the public. I pointed out how grotesquely inappropriate the language of the pledge was in this regard, and that it was essentially calling for us to be Thought Police.

Fast forward a few years to now, and our soon to be adopted revised Use of Force policy. During the discussions and planning at the Training Division about the implementation of this policy, I pointed out how these changing priorities were the result of, and were causing, Moral Confusion. The Moral Calculus that has been part of our civilization for several centuries (i.e. Innocent life takes priority over the life of the criminal whose actions have caused the risk) is no longer 'valid'. The new calculus states that every life must be weighed equally from a law enforcement perspective....including the violent criminal actors. The fact that this makes Law Enforcement Use of Deadly force inherently immoral in all cases, and makes its use essentially 'criminal', is not in my opinion an unintended consequence.

During our brainstorming of various scenarios of how these policy changes would play out, there was widespread acknowledgement that these policies necessarily mean that we let some innocent people die, in order to avoid the use of deadly force. My fellow use of force instructors were, I'm ashamed to say, okay with that. That is just considered the new way we do business. There's a great deal of "Get on board or get left behind!" talk in these discussions. Getting on the reform train is seen as key to promotion....and that is becoming the entire point of a career in my agency.

This attitude is also, I fear, the result of the endless attacks on Law Enforcement throughout the last few years. I often hear talk about how LE has lost the public's trust. I'm here to tell you that cops don't at all trust the public in a lot of places anymore either. Which one do you think is a greater threat to a free society?

We are on a road to some bad shit, my friends. Unless the good people of our nation who just want to be left alone, get off their asses and get involved...and pretty damn quick...this is gonna spiral out of anybodys ability to control it. My 2 cents.

[blues]

AMC Very well put, and I don't envy your situation.

My tongue in cheek (out of frustration) response on another board today was that the officer should have loudly shouted "You go, girl!" to no one in particular.

Since it could be interpreted that he was supporting both parties, one to continue stabbing, one to flee, his actions could only be deemed positive, and in no way discriminatory nor racist.

Besides, it was only a typical teen knife fight...with no need for police involvement or intervention. What could go wrong?

Simple.

[randyho]

"I grew up in Prince George's County MD and this thread confuses me," said this guy who is fortunate to have been in knife (and scissors) fights with people who had no idea what they were doing.

Blades are scary and hands bleed a lot!

[TheNewbie]

Excellent post by AMC.


I wish I had FTOs/veteran officers like him, BehindBlueI's, Dagga Boy, blues, and many others on here when I first started. Would have been a game changer and would have helped me, and my fellow new officers, out a lot.


There is an old school pot head janitor I know that used to run with a pretty rough crowd. One of the other janitors has been to the pen and been handled by the cops a few times in the past. Guys like them are pro police and have no animosity against cops and know that if your comply things go well.

[UNM1136]

Excellent post by AMC.


I wish I had FTOs/veteran officers like him, BehindBlueI's, Dagga Boy, blues, and many others on here when I first started. Would have been a game changer and would have helped me, and my fellow new officers, out a lot.


There is an old school pot head janitor I know that used to run with a pretty rough crowd. One of the other janitors has been to the pen and been handled by the cops a few times in the past. Guys like them are pro police and have no animosity against cops and know that if your comply things go well.

S,

You have the ability to affect change. Maybe not at the moment, maybe not in your career, maybe not in your life, but you have to do what is right, always...

You can't live your life fearing the judgement of others...but you have to meet your standards of behaviour...don't fail the cops that come after you by setting a poor example...

pat

[BehindBlueI's]

I haven't read through the thread, but it's pretty ridiculous when saving a life from a bad actor is a now controversial.

For those who are surprised adults are just standing around, there's a solid chance the adults arranged it. Gladiatorial combat of juveniles for family honor and neighborhood entertainment is a real thing in certain communities.

[Sensei]

Several years ago a Lieutenant in my department came up with a 'pledge' that all officers were encouraged to recite together out loud. It was big not only on the issue of biased policing....it included overt and direct calls to not tolerate, and to confront, bias on the part of members of the public. I pointed out how grotesquely inappropriate the language of the pledge was in this regard, and that it was essentially calling for us to be Thought Police.

Fast forward a few years to now, and our soon to be adopted revised Use of Force policy. During the discussions and planning at the Training Division about the implementation of this policy, I pointed out how these changing priorities were the result of, and were causing, Moral Confusion. The Moral Calculus that has been part of our civilization for several centuries (i.e. Innocent life takes priority over the life of the criminal whose actions have caused the risk) is no longer 'valid'. The new calculus states that every life must be weighed equally from a law enforcement perspective....including the violent criminal actors. The fact that this makes Law Enforcement Use of Deadly force inherently immoral in all cases, and makes its use essentially 'criminal', is not in my opinion an unintended consequence.

During our brainstorming of various scenarios of how these policy changes would play out, there was widespread acknowledgement that these policies necessarily mean that we let some innocent people die, in order to avoid the use of deadly force. My fellow use of force instructors were, I'm ashamed to say, okay with that. That is just considered the new way we do business. There's a great deal of "Get on board or get left behind!" talk in these discussions. Getting on the reform train is seen as key to promotion....and that is becoming the entire point of a career in my agency.

This attitude is also, I fear, the result of the endless attacks on Law Enforcement throughout the last few years. I often hear talk about how LE has lost the public's trust. I'm here to tell you that cops don't at all trust the public in a lot of places anymore either. Which one do you think is a greater threat to a free society?

We are on a road to some bad shit, my friends. Unless the good people of our nation who just want to be left alone, get off their asses and get involved...and pretty damn quick...this is gonna spiral out of anybodys ability to control it. My 2 cents.

This is a really good post. It’s spot on in every regard.

Unfortunately, I’m in the isolationist camp. There are people who I’m responsible for that would be hurt if I publicly engaged in the current social war. Thus, I will not seek out conflict on any level.

I do wonder how long you will be able to work in that environment. I fear that a lot of cops want to leave but feel that they are past the point of no return. That is a horrible feeling - been there...done that.

[TheNewbie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwBT4F8z7f8

[trailrunner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwBT4F8z7f8

One of the comments was pretty funny:


Like playing Chess with a Pigeon. They'll strut around the board, knocking over all the pieces and crapping on everything, then declare victory.

[mmc45414]

Unfortunately, I’m in the isolationist camp. There are people who I’m responsible for that would be hurt if I publicly engaged in the current social war. Thus, I will not seek out conflict on any level.
Exactly, I do not have the right to potentially destroy my wife's business, or the desire to ostracize myself from people I may be selling to, just so that I can assert myself. I have significantly curtailed my use of social media accordingly, mostly because I really don't trust myself not to post hilarious shit like this:

70545

[Wise_A]

From a practical standpoint, I think there's a strong lesson for Regular People Carrying Guns: don't help nobody.

Here we have a clearly, undeniably necessary use of force. The victim was tenths of a second away from being stabbed. The subject had previously announced her intention to stab her. All the elements are present: immediacy, unavoidability, intent, disparity of force (both size and armed/unarmed). And yet, where are the witnesses speaking up for the cop? Where is the victim? You can excuse these people--they have to live there, they're weak, scared, whatever. They're not speaking up. On the other hand, there are plenty of people out there denying that she was armed, even denying that knives are deadly weapons. These people are your potential witnesses, your potential jurors.

So the number of people I'll kill for is really small. Uniformed police, EMS, fire. Limited family only; my half-brothers are SOL but I'd pop a cap over my nephew depending on the situation (don't look at me like that, he's 14). Maybe some of my co-workers. The rest of you are on your own. Just the same as I don't expect anyone to help me.

[Shellback]

Officer Silvester has a plan: https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes1976/status/1386096485561823234

[jh9]

I haven't read through the thread, but it's pretty ridiculous when saving a life from a bad actor is a now controversial.

Controversial among a small number of loud idiots on twitter and the three people that own like all of the broadcast media versus controversial amongst the public at large are two different things, though. I don't know anyone that views this particular incident as anything other than "stabby person got shot, news at 11". I'll hazard a guess that I probably hang out with more liberal people than the average person here.

The whole "let them fight" argument is about as popular as "disband all ICE". It's a small number of very loud people on social media. Don't let that distort your perception of reality.

[blues]

Where's Obama complaining about how it's easier for kids to get knives than books?

Oh wait, it's only a teenage knife fight. Just kids being kids.

Nothing to see here.

[BehindBlueI's]

Controversial among a small number of loud idiots on twitter and the three people that own like all of the broadcast media versus controversial amongst the public at large are two different things, though. I don't know anyone that views this particular incident as anything other than "stabby person got shot, news at 11". I'll hazard a guess that I probably hang out with more liberal people than the average person here.

The whole "let them fight" argument is about as popular as "disband all ICE". It's a small number of very loud people on social media. Don't let that distort your perception of reality.

Squeaky wheels and grease. The quiet majority will not affect politicians and politicians, both elected and appointed, make laws and police policy.

You know how we often get the "will good cops do XXX when bad cops do YYY?" questions. Will the good citizens stand up for the police in as loud a form as the detractors will tear us down? No. So reality will be altered regardless because silent majorities may as well not exist in this realm.

[jh9]

Will the good citizens stand up for the police in as loud a form as the detractors will tear us down? No. So reality will be altered regardless because silent majorities may as well not exist in this realm.

Well... I do (somewhat relatively) often defend the police in not one but two different group texts with some of my friends. And the information I get here drives a lot of that.

FWIW, which may be nothing. It's not a blank check, but I'm receptive to new information or a new perspective if it's well-argued and well-reasoned.

[CWM11B]

After LE has been sufficiently neutered, on deck iscthe private citizen CCW in a self defense shooting. Body worn cameras might be the next big thing for the "EDC LOADOUT" crowd. Just sayin'...

[blues]

After LE has been sufficiently neutered, on deck iscthe private citizen CCW in a self defense shooting. Body worn cameras might be the next big thing for the "EDC LOADOUT" crowd. Just sayin'...

Please, delete that post!!!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

From my morning news feed - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/us/police-use-of-force.html

Talks about split second decisions and the court precedents. Just FYI, folks.

[AMC]

From my morning news feed - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/us/police-use-of-force.html

Talks about split second decisions and the court precedents. Just FYI, folks.

That's an amazing article. It manages to completely misrepresent the entire point of Graham V. Connor, how it affected police use of force training, and historical trends in Law Enforcement use of Deadly Force.....all in a single article! To everyone still in the 'isolationist' camp.....you're not gonna be allowed to be 'isolationist' in the new order they're creating.

[TheNewbie]

That's an amazing article. It manages to completely misrepresent the entire point of Graham V. Connor, how it affected police use of force training, and historical trends in Law Enforcement use of Deadly Force.....all in a single article! To everyone still in the 'isolationist' camp.....you're not gonna be allowed to be 'isolationist' in the new order they're creating.



Too bad we don’t have any historical lessons to reinforce your point.

[DDTSGM]

I found the story elsewhere, the link was behind a paywall.

The article confuses what Garner and Graham accomplished in law enforcement use of force training.

Garner is important because it links police use of force to arrest (versus protect the officer or another) to a seizure under the 4th Amendment's reasonableness standard, this was the first big deal.

They then set out to give guidance on when it would be reasonable to shoot a fleeing suspect to effect his arrest - essentially when there was probable cause to believe the suspect poses a threat of death or great bodily harm unless arrested w/o delay and there are no other reasonable means to effect the arrest.

Ultimately Garner's seizure under the reasonableness standard has been applied to police pursuits, roadblocks, as well as the use of lethal force.

While Garner is often considered the fleeing felon rule/case, Graham deals with judging the reasonableness of an officer's action in a wider view.

Graham, to my feeble mind, further refines the reasonableness standard in excessive use of force claims to one of objective reasonableness. Prior to Graham the persuasive case in excessive force cases was Johnson v. Glick. In Johnson, one of the elements of reasonableness was somewhat subjective:

was the force was applied in good faith or maliciously and sadistically, or, was the force used in a punitive or tortuous manner; did the use of force stop after the resistance had ceased; was the use of force professional and in response to the criminal violations or was the force motivated by emotions of revenge, vindication or prejudice.

The Court, in Graham, moved us out of that foolishness by holding:

The Fourth Amendment "reasonableness" inquiry is whether the officers' actions are "objectively reasonable" in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation. An officer's evil intentions will not make a Fourth Amendment violation out of an objectively reasonable use of force; nor will an officer's good intentions make an objectively unreasonable use of force constitutional.

(Remember, the Court was ruling on a case where a diabetic man's arm was broken as he resisted because of low blood sugar.)

They further held:

The "reasonableness" of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight. And its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation.

Note that the court didn't say 'must be giving a free pass in cases regarding split-second decisions' rather they said the calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation.

The test of reasonableness is not capable of precise definition or mechanical application. Its proper application requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including: 1) The severity of the crime at issue; 2) Whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and 3) Whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.

So, yeah, the article is pretty much worthless, except for stirring the masses.

[Joe S]

Controversial among a small number of loud idiots on twitter and the three people that own like all of the broadcast media versus controversial amongst the public at large are two different things, though. I don't know anyone that views this particular incident as anything other than "stabby person got shot, news at 11". I'll hazard a guess that I probably hang out with more liberal people than the average person here.

The whole "let them fight" argument is about as popular as "disband all ICE". It's a small number of very loud people on social media. Don't let that distort your perception of reality.

I just wanted to second this. I run in way more liberal circles than most here. I have not heard a peep of disapproval for the officer's action from anyone, in Real Life.

[TheNewbie]

Homily on the police by a Priest with wisdom.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZRBaDMcNE

[LittleLebowski]

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/makhia-bryant-shooting/woman-seen-almost-stabbed-in-columbus-police-shooting-video-now-gets-death-threats-i-team/


Police video this week showed a Columbus officer shot a 16-year-old girl as she was about to stab a woman. That woman went to stay with a relative in Cleveland. Then she called police to report her life is in danger. She told police Friday someone posted her current and former addresses, phone number and picture on social media. That led others to share it on social media.

[blues]

Thanks for the update, LL.


Nothing but class.

But...let's re-imagine the police.

While defunding them.

Because they're the problem.

Right.

Because you know, every life matters.

What horseshit.