Impulse buy: Sabre Red "grenade"

[LittleLebowski]

Worthy addition to the vehicle in case of mobs? It was only $23.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KW5NIW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[TGS]

Dicey employment if you don't have an oxygen lockout system on your vehicle.

I suggest a VRU (https://www.essexindustries.com/products/victim-rescue-unit-plus-vru/) to be stowed compactly, neatly, at each passenger position.

Lacking either of these countermeasures, a powdered CS irritant grenade (https://www.nonlethaltechnologies.com/PG-MPG.htm) would be preferable so that you don't incapacitate yourself/occupants. These also have adjustable timers.

[LittleLebowski]

Dicey employment if you don't have an oxygen lockout system on your vehicle.

I suggest a VRU (https://www.essexindustries.com/products/victim-rescue-unit-plus-vru/) to be stowed compactly, neatly, at each passenger position.

Lacking either of these countermeasures, a powdered CS irritant grenade (https://www.nonlethaltechnologies.com/PG-MPG.htm) would be preferable so that you don't incapacitate yourself/occupants. These also have adjustable timers.

Why not set it on Recirculate and boogie on out of there? Also, definitely interesting suggestions.

[5pins]

If you keep in the car you may want to store it in something that will contain it should it go off.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVIeUmsBGHc

[TGS]

Why not set it on Recirculate and boogie on out of there?

If you set your A/C to recirculate it won't forcefully induct the air outside into the cabin, but it'll still diffuse into the cabin regardless. Sitting behind a vehicle with poor emissions in traffic has always resulted in this in any vehicle I've ever been in, and the CS is going to be noticed much more severely.

I'm wary of depending on the ability to move as a primary countermeasure against it, as well. Crowd might not be as impressed as you're hoping. So, now you'd be in an even worse situation....powering a 4000lbs missile in a charged situation, and with compromised vision and cognitive function.

The grenade I linked to uses an "explosion" of powder that saturates a small area upon discharge, it doesn't emit over a period of time which prevents people from picking it up and throwing it away. Of course, caveat now that I'm thinking about it.....I have no idea if you can find these for sale commercially. CS gas is the defacto standard, but CS powder has its niche uses.

Regardless, the VRUs would be a good idea to add if you travel to urban areas so you don't take a hit from CS gas by police in a situation you happen to find yourself in by chance, or in the occasion of building collapse (natural disaster or terrorism) so you can breath and not die from asbestos poisoning, "9/11 disease", etc. They fit quite nicely in seatback pockets, consoles, door pockets, etc. I used to keep one with me in my daily satchel when working in NYC for the latter reason. It'll be a hell of a lot better protection and easier to breath than wearing an N95 (which I also keep in my bag). They also function in a smoked filled environment (have done so myself during internal structure fire, not stage smoke).

I imagine there's other flat-folded escape hood options available, that's just the one I'm intimately familiar with.

[RevolverRob]

If you set your A/C to recirculate it won't forcefully induct the air outside into the cabin, but it'll still diffuse into the cabin regardless. Sitting behind a vehicle with poor emissions in traffic has always resulted in this in any vehicle I've ever been in, and the CS is going to be noticed much more severely.

I'm wary of depending on the ability to move as a primary countermeasure against it, as well. Crowd might not be as impressed as you're hoping. So, now you'd be in an even worse situation....powering a 4000lbs missile in a charged situation, and with compromised vision and cognitive function.

The grenade I linked to uses an "explosion" of powder that saturates a small area upon discharge, it doesn't emit over a period of time which prevents people from picking it up and throwing it away. Of course, caveat now that I'm thinking about it.....I have no idea if you can find these for sale commercially. CS gas is the defacto standard, but CS powder has its niche uses.

Regardless, the VRUs would be a good idea to add if you travel to urban areas so you don't take a hit from CS gas by police in a situation you happen to find yourself in by chance, or in the occasion of building collapse (natural disaster or terrorism) so you can breath and not die from asbestos poisoning, "9/11 disease", etc. They fit quite nicely in seatback pockets, consoles, door pockets, etc. I used to keep one with me in my daily satchel when working in NYC for the latter reason. It'll be a hell of a lot better protection and easier to breath than wearing an N95 (which I also keep in my bag). They also function in a smoked filled environment (have done so myself during internal structure fire, not stage smoke).

I imagine there's other flat-folded escape hood options available, that's just the one I'm intimately familiar with.

You gotta stop holding in these trade secrets.

I like this idea a lot. I frequently work on upper floors of buildings that contain substantial amounts of volatile chemicals inside of them. While most of them are properly stored, my experience has been, not all labs do it right, and rarely are labs audited/inspected to rectify things on a regular basis (nor are labs fined for failure to comply at the University level, so there is little incentive to do it correctly).

Do you have a source for acquiring these? Or do you go straight to the MFG?

[HeavyDuty]

You gotta stop holding in these trade secrets.

I like this idea a lot. I frequently work on upper floors of buildings that contain substantial amounts of volatile chemicals inside of them. While most of them are properly stored, my experience has been, not all labs do it right, and rarely are labs audited/inspected to rectify things on a regular basis (nor are labs fined for failure to comply at the University level, so there is little incentive to do it correctly).

Do you have a source for acquiring these? Or do you go straight to the MFG?

Amazon has these... https://www.amazon.com/iEvac-only-American-Certified-Smoke/dp/B00812AEDW

[TGS]

You gotta stop holding in these trade secrets.

I like this idea a lot. I frequently work on upper floors of buildings that contain substantial amounts of volatile chemicals inside of them. While most of them are properly stored, my experience has been, not all labs do it right, and rarely are labs audited/inspected to rectify things on a regular basis (nor are labs fined for failure to comply at the University level, so there is little incentive to do it correctly).

Fo'realz. Suffocating, choking agents, asbestos, and thick velvety fire smoke sucks balls.


Do you have a source for acquiring these? Or do you go straight to the MFG?

We have a substantial contract with the MFG and at my current and former assignment we hand these out like candy.

In addition to what Heavy Duty found, I imagine you could find these sorts of things at workplace safety/chemical supply companies. Just a SWAG, though.

Make sure whatever you find will function in actual smoke, the kind that buildings actually produce. I'm surprised the one that heavy duty found is...usually the thick velvety smoke will clog filters, which we found when T&Eing one of our other issued CBRNE escape hoods in a smoke filled environment. The VRUs, however, slowly release a small cartridge of 02 into the hood and have a CO2 scrubber that will function in optimum conditions up to 63 minutes in perfect resting conditions, 15 minutes under severe cardiovascular output (times approximate and subject to the error of my memory). It's a simplified rebreather escape hood, is all......filtration of thick velvety smoke can be problematic.

[LittleLebowski]

If you set your A/C to recirculate it won't forcefully induct the air outside into the cabin, but it'll still diffuse into the cabin regardless. Sitting behind a vehicle with poor emissions in traffic has always resulted in this in any vehicle I've ever been in, and the CS is going to be noticed much more severely.

I'm wary of depending on the ability to move as a primary countermeasure against it, as well. Crowd might not be as impressed as you're hoping. So, now you'd be in an even worse situation....powering a 4000lbs missile in a charged situation, and with compromised vision and cognitive function.

The grenade I linked to uses an "explosion" of powder that saturates a small area upon discharge, it doesn't emit over a period of time which prevents people from picking it up and throwing it away. Of course, caveat now that I'm thinking about it.....I have no idea if you can find these for sale commercially. CS gas is the defacto standard, but CS powder has its niche uses.

Regardless, the VRUs would be a good idea to add if you travel to urban areas so you don't take a hit from CS gas by police in a situation you happen to find yourself in by chance, or in the occasion of building collapse (natural disaster or terrorism) so you can breath and not die from asbestos poisoning, "9/11 disease", etc. They fit quite nicely in seatback pockets, consoles, door pockets, etc. I used to keep one with me in my daily satchel when working in NYC for the latter reason. It'll be a hell of a lot better protection and easier to breath than wearing an N95 (which I also keep in my bag). They also function in a smoked filled environment (have done so myself during internal structure fire, not stage smoke).

I imagine there's other flat-folded escape hood options available, that's just the one I'm intimately familiar with.

"avoid cities", got it :D

[HCM]

Does $499- sound like an appropriate price ?

http://myescapehood.com/buy/

[RevolverRob]

Does $499- sound like an appropriate price ?

http://myescapehood.com/buy/

I saw that, but myescapehood.com isn't actually listed on Essex Industries' website as an approved distributor.

There are a couple of things - first the SKUs/PNs for the VRU and VRU+ seem to be restricted.

However, not restricted are PNs and SKUs associated with Essex Industries:

Self-Contained Unit (SCU)
Protective Breathing Equipment (PBE)
Emergency Passenger Oxygen System (EPOS)

All of those appear functionally similar (near as I can tell for the EPOS and SCU identical) to the VRU. You'll need an account with an aviation supply company to get them. I'm working through the list now. But haven't found pricing. I may have to call or email to inquire. It's okay, I could use an account with an aerospace supply company for high grade critical fasteners and high quality sheet metal for building my car anyways.

[HCM]

I saw that, but myescapehood.com isn't actually listed on Essex Industries' website as an approved distributor.

There are a couple of things - first the SKUs/PNs for the VRU and VRU+ seem to be restricted.

However, not restricted are PNs and SKUs associated with Essex Industries:

Self-Contained Unit (SCU)
Protective Breathing Equipment (PBE)
Emergency Passenger Oxygen System (EPOS)

All of those appear functionally similar (near as I can tell for the EPOS and SCU identical) to the VRU. You'll need an account with an aviation supply company to get them. I'm working through the list now. But haven't found pricing. I may have to call or email to inquire. It's okay, I could use an account with an aerospace supply company for high grade critical fasteners and high quality sheet metal for building my car anyways.

There is a listing for them on Amazon Canada but they show out of stock.

[RevolverRob]

There is a listing for them on Amazon Canada but they show out of stock.

None of the aviation supply cos whose inventory I've been able to search has them either. Most are quoting 30-days to ship. I imagine there is a small, but steady, demand for these products.

I'll dig around more the next couple of days.

[MickAK]

Does $499- sound like an appropriate price ?

http://myescapehood.com/buy/

That sounds like a vaporware/not real price. Non fire rated EEBD's are more than that typically.



All of those appear functionally similar (near as I can tell for the EPOS and SCU identical) to the VRU. You'll need an account with an aviation supply company to get them. I'm working through the list now. But haven't found pricing. I may have to call or email to inquire. It's okay, I could use an account with an aerospace supply company for high grade critical fasteners and high quality sheet metal for building my car anyways.

If you have trouble obtaining one but still want an EEBD these are the ones I typically purchase for work http://www.oceanmedix.com/products/ocenco-m-20-2-emergency-escape-breathing-device-eebd.html . They're not as good as the VRU's but they're available and considerably cheaper. Sometimes you can find them on Ebay but some of those are probably stolen. If your main concern is chemical release as opposed to fire they will do what you need. The VRU hoods are rated to much higher temperatures/able to resist dripping molten resins.

[nalesq]

Instead of a fancy pants VRU, wouldn’t an ordinary full face respirator work just as well for a OC grenade?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[msstate56]

Absolutely, under no circumstances, store one in your vehicle. Especially the duty vehicle you have to get in 12 hours later. Don’t ask me how I know.

[RevolverRob]

Instead of a fancy pants VRU, wouldn’t an ordinary full face respirator work just as well for a OC grenade?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

As long as the filters are good for volatiles, should be.

I'm actually interested in the VRUs from the perspective of where I often work. Currently, both of my offices are on the 3rd floor of buildings housing multiple research labs. One building houses enough ethanol and formalin that if the fire shutters aren't activated properly...well a VRU will be the least of my worries. But even if the shutters are activated the vaporization of those volatile chemicals would be bad news bears for my lungs.

New office will be on the upper floors of a high rise housing many research labs with similar (but much smaller amounts) of chemicals.

At present the youngest building I've ever had an office in was from 1975. Currently, one building is from 1899 and the other from 1920.

[Coyotesfan97]

Worthy addition to the vehicle in case of mobs? It was only $23.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KW5NIW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I’d carry a MK9, actually I already carry one, before the aerosol grenade. I don’t like the deployment system on those. You’d have to put it out your window and press the tab down to lock. As soon as your pressing it down it starts releasing the agent.

I liked the OC “grenades” that used a powder agent and a CO2 cartridge to deploy it. They had a spoon and a couple second delay.

[Coyotesfan97]

Absolutely, under no circumstances, store one in your vehicle. Especially the duty vehicle you have to get in 12 hours later. Don’t ask me how I know.

What happened? I’m curious as a former gas guy. I stored a lot of chemical agents in a CV trunk in the AZ summer and I never had an AD. I had a MK9 bulge out the bottom of the canister once. I did have a couple fire extinguishers deploy when the pin was out of the handle and gear pushed on it.

[RevolverRob]

I’d carry a MK9, actually I already carry one, before the aerosol grenade. I don’t like the deployment system on those. You’d have to put it out your window and press the tab down to lock. As soon as your pressing it down it starts releasing the agent.

I liked the OC “grenades” that used a powder agent and a CO2 cartridge to deploy it. They had a spoon and a couple second delay.

You could probably make something like them. Airsoft "flashbangs", squeeze the spoon to pierce a CO2 cartridge, it fills a plastic casing until it bursts. Gives about a 130-decibel "bang". One could conceivably fill the casing with a CS powder, before inserting the co2 cartridge holder and cartridge.

Still, I haven't convinced myself that I can come up with a good legal justification for them. The fact that you could potentially start a stampede with one of those, always gives me pause. On the one hand, the idea that you're trying to minimize damage by escaping. On the other, the potential for extreme danger from stampeding could make it all for naught.

[wvincent]

You could probably make something like them. Airsoft "flashbangs", squeeze the spoon to pierce a CO2 cartridge, it fills a plastic casing until it bursts. Gives about a 130-decibel "bang". One could conceivably fill the casing with a CS powder, before inserting the co2 cartridge holder and cartridge.

Still, I haven't convinced myself that I can come up with a good legal justification for them. The fact that you could potentially start a stampede with one of those, always gives me pause. On the one hand, the idea that you're trying to minimize damage by escaping. On the other, the potential for extreme danger from stampeding could make it all for naught.

.Make sure you video your roadside chat with a State Trooper as you explain your "improvised chemical munitions".:eek::D

[RevolverRob]

.Make sure you video your roadside chat with a State Trooper as you explain your "improvised chemical munitions".:eek::D


https://youtu.be/1qiFjN3D8TU

[msstate56]

What happened? I’m curious as a former gas guy. I stored a lot of chemical agents in a CV trunk in the AZ summer and I never had an AD. I had a MK9 bulge out the bottom of the canister once. I did have a couple fire extinguishers deploy when the pin was out of the handle and gear pushed on it.

OC grenade left in outside pouch of duty bag. Left on front seat of Dodge Charger in MS late summer during the day ( I worked nights). Came back to the worst clean up job in history. When the car got hot, you could still get a hint of OC 3 years later.

[TGS]

Instead of a fancy pants VRU, wouldn’t an ordinary full face respirator work just as well for a OC grenade?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes.

The difference being the VRU can be stored neatly out of sight and yet always be available. It's purposed for emergency situations where you're not otherwise foreseeing the need; gas masks are obviously the preferred PPE for when you foresee its use.

Full face respirator masks are bulky and you'll have to store them in obvious plain sight, on your seats or something. I like being prepared, but I don't like leaving shit out in my car that people will be inclined to see and break into my car for, or drawing attention from law enforcement...nor do I like giving people the impression that I make skin-suits and lamp-shades out of people in my free-time by having a bunch of gas masks in my car.

The Ocenico M20 mentioned by MickAK is of limited usefulness, and really only purposed for specific industrial applications. The plastic bag you put over your head doesn't actually seal nor is it positive pressure, which is why it's labelled a "face shield". It will not effectively protect you against CS gas, since your eyes are still exposed, and it relies on your pursing your lips and using a nose clip to protect your airway. That face shield is really only to protect your face from splashing liquids, not vapors.

The VRU may be expensive and goofy looking, but what we're talking about requires using the right tool for the right job, not just a lucky rabbit's foot talisman.

[wvincent]

or drawing attention from law enforcement...nor do I like giving people the impression that I make skin-suits and lamp-shades out of people in my free-time by having a bunch of gas masks in my car.

Don't drag me into this.

[LittleLebowski]

Don't drag me into this.

That was good :D

[HeavyDuty]

I showed these to a friend who lives in the hood (they live on the second floor of their house in the Austin area of Chicago, like Charlton Heston in the Omega Man.) He’s thinking it might be useful to toss down the staircase.

[MickAK]

The Ocenico M20 mentioned by MickAK is of limited usefulness, and really only purposed for specific industrial applications. The plastic bag you put over your head doesn't actually seal nor is it positive pressure, which is why it's labelled a "face shield". It will not effectively protect you against CS gas, since your eyes are still exposed, and it relies on your pursing your lips and using a nose clip to protect your airway. That face shield is really only to protect your face from splashing liquids, not vapors.

The VRU may be expensive and goofy looking, but what we're talking about requires using the right tool for the right job, not just a lucky rabbit's foot talisman.

It's pretty useful when escaping from an oxygen deficient atmosphere. A lot of chemicals displace oxygen pretty rapidly, so if that's the concern a respirator full face or not is just going to keep your face pretty when they find your corpse in the stairwell. I didn't recommend it for CS gas. From personal experience while the Teflon bag doesn't seal effectively or have positive pressure you can escape from an anhydrous ammonia atmosphere with one. It stings though.

The Ocenco M20 fits inside of a full face respirator fairly well in the nylon hip pouch and there's room for a slim pair of goggles as well. That's what goes in my 'Oh shit' bag because that's what I can get. I would rather have a VRU, but that's about as useful as a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range to me. There aren't any other compact oxygen supplying escape hoods on the market that I've seen. Every other oxygen supplying escape hood requires an external cylinder that's too bulky to fit in a bag along with a full face and the full face is more likely to get used.

If you have a source to purchase a VRU that would be awesome.

[Borderland]

I showed these to a friend who lives in the hood (they live on the second floor of their house in the Austin area of Chicago, like Charlton Heston in the Omega Man.) He’s thinking it might be useful to toss down the staircase.

I can visualize this. Seems hilarious to me for some reason.

Some dude yelling gas grenade, GTFO!

Maybe I have a really warped sense of humor. IDK.

[TGS]

It's pretty useful when escaping from an oxygen deficient atmosphere. A lot of chemicals displace oxygen pretty rapidly, so if that's the concern a respirator full face or not is just going to keep your face pretty when they find your corpse in the stairwell.


It's almost as if I wrote that it was for specific industrial applications.*mindblown*

[Borderland]

.Make sure you video your roadside chat with a State Trooper as you explain your "improvised chemical munitions".:eek::D

IED, I mean ICM that I made in my basement.