Would a single stack, Commander sized 45 ACP Glock make any sense in today’s America?

[Inkwell 41]

With the political winds blowing in the direction they are, I’ve been thinking a lot about semi autos that might be less likely to offend the sensibilities of the hoplophobic Biden voters. I know that semi autos are evil. Okay, I get it. But I was thinking that a Commander sized, 7 round capacity single stack magazine (+1 &2 base pads for free’er states), .45 ACP Glock, with a G41/G30S (1”) width slide, Gen 5 features and MOS option, might just be something. It’d be New York State legal, not that that matters to me. It would certainly be lighter than an aluminum framed Commander and I’d guess more durable than one as well. Maybe not. I was wrong about how great the new administration would be.... oh, wait. I wasn’t.

[farscott]

My thoughts were much the same before the election, especially when ammo became unobtanium, so I added a G36.3 to the stable as I was carrying a customized G17.3. Six-shot single-stack magazine and the same 3.78" barrel length of the G30(S). At the time, I was practicing to move to an EDC X9 from the G17.3 and was unable to find 9x19 practice ammo or components. I was sitting -- and still am -- on cases of 230-grain standard pressure JHP .45 ACP. The G36.3 is nice, but I prefer a longer side radius and more weight in .45 ACP. So I decided to use the EDC X9 time and pulled several of my .45 five-inch 1911 guns from the safe and started practicing. After some practice sessions, I was down to my RRA Elite Commando and my old NP3-finished STI Lawman. The latter won due to the superior corrosion resistance as there were no real differences on the timer or targets.

So, long story short, I think an eight-shot, 4.25" barreled Glock would make a ton of sense.

[Trooper224]

Any pistol with a capacity of less than ten rounds may make more sense in the near future. Personally, that's why I'm holding off investing in any new platform with a greater capacity. I have a bunch of Beretta 92s that might not make a lot of sense after a mag ban, let alone a big ticket gun like a Staccato P, etc.

[Jay585]

Why .45? If we're looking at 9mm's, the 48 and 43x would fit the bill nicely.

EDIT: Never mind, think I figured out why. Larger rounds=reduced magazine capacity.

[Inkwell 41]

Why .45? If we're looking at 9mm's, the 48 and 43x would fit the bill nicely.

EDIT: Never mind, think I figured out why. Larger rounds=reduced magazine capacity.

Yeah, that’s it. Having owned a Commander, that size always appealed to me.

Trooper224. I think we’re on the same sheet of music. I really don’t want to, nor an I afford, to carry a high dollar gun that I can’t have several copies of and might end up in an evidence locker for a long while. A big plus is that I can replace Glock parts. I’m not a 1911 gunsmith or even armorer.

[steve]

With the political winds blowing in the direction they are, I’ve been thinking a lot about semi autos that might be less likely to offend the sensibilities of the hoplophobic Biden voters. I know that semi autos are evil. Okay, I get it. But I was thinking that a Commander sized, 7 round capacity single stack magazine (+1 &2 base pads for free’er states), .45 ACP Glock, with a G41/G30S (1”) width slide, Gen 5 features and MOS option, might just be something. It’d be New York State legal, not that that matters to me. It would certainly be lighter than an aluminum framed Commander and I’d guess more durable than one as well. Maybe not. I was wrong about how great the new administration would be.... oh, wait. I wasn’t.

When someone wants something banned they do it in small doses so it is acceptable. The correct number of rounds a magazine can hold for someone offended by such is 0. When they achieve 0 they will find something else to go after because the policies they have enacted cause the problems they think they can correct.

Thinking you can find common ground is a weakness they will capitalize on; don't fall for it.

[M2CattleCo]

I’ve lived in a country where guns are basically illegal and I had to leave my pocketknife in the truck before going out in public.

I won’t be complying with any bs here.

[Inkwell 41]

When someone wants something banned they do it in small doses so it is acceptable. The correct number of rounds a magazine can hold for someone offended by such is 0. When they achieve 0 they will find something else to go after because the policies they have enacted cause the problems they think they can correct.

Thinking you can find common ground is a weakness they will capitalize on; don't fall for it.

I fully realize what the opposition’s goals are. My comment on the Resident of the United States in the original post was sarcasm. Hope this clarifies.

[HCM]

With the political winds blowing in the direction they are, I’ve been thinking a lot about semi autos that might be less likely to offend the sensibilities of the hoplophobic Biden voters. I know that semi autos are evil. Okay, I get it. But I was thinking that a Commander sized, 7 round capacity single stack magazine (+1 &2 base pads for free’er states), .45 ACP Glock, with a G41/G30S (1”) width slide, Gen 5 features and MOS option, might just be something. It’d be New York State legal, not that that matters to me. It would certainly be lighter than an aluminum framed Commander and I’d guess more durable than one as well. Maybe not. I was wrong about how great the new administration would be.... oh, wait. I wasn’t.

Any Glock, or even any handgun would offend the sensibilities of hopolophobic Biden voters. They want total disarmament. Anything they might say otherwise is a lie. Attempting to reason with unreasonable people is a fools errand.

[CleverNickname]

With the political winds blowing in the direction they are, I’ve been thinking a lot about semi autos that might be less likely to offend the sensibilities of the hoplophobic Biden voters. I know that semi autos are evil. Okay, I get it. But I was thinking that a Commander sized, 7 round capacity single stack magazine (+1 &2 base pads for free’er states), .45 ACP Glock, with a G41/G30S (1”) width slide, Gen 5 features and MOS option, might just be something. It’d be New York State legal, not that that matters to me. It would certainly be lighter than an aluminum framed Commander and I’d guess more durable than one as well. Maybe not. I was wrong about how great the new administration would be.... oh, wait. I wasn’t.
It sounds like you want a Glock 36, a +1 magazine extension and an MOS cut. You can get all that right now, you'll just have to settle for an aftermarket optic cut.

Thinking that you're going to satisfy the anti-gunners with a slightly-less capable gun is a fool's errand though.

[Trooper224]

Yeah, that’s it. Having owned a Commander, that size always appealed to me.

Trooper224. I think we’re on the same sheet of music. I really don’t want to, nor an I afford, to carry a high dollar gun that I can’t have several copies of and might end up in an evidence locker for a long while. A big plus is that I can replace Glock parts. I’m not a 1911 gunsmith or even armorer.

The guys are hacking on you because of your verbiage in your OP, but I'm picking up what your putting down.

As much as I love my Berettas, they don't make a lot of sense if I have to limit them to ten round mags. I have plenty of 18 and 20 round 92 mags, so if those were to be grandfathered in any proposed legislation that would ease things, but there's no guarantee of that happening this time. An uber expensive production gun like the aforementioned Staccato makes even less, especially since it's really just a high cap 1911 and I already have plenty of those in single stack form.

The real question is, would Glock see the market share in a single stack .45? Unfortunately, I think the answer to that is no. Nine millimeter is by far the most popular centerfire pistol round today and gaining more traction every day. Glock already has successful single stack nines. I don't see them tooling up for one in .45acp.

[sickeness]

This pretty much already exists in the form of the M2.0 shield 45. 6+1 or 7+1 single stack in a vetted striker platform.

[diananike]

If Glock came out with a 48 sized .45 I’d jump on it.
It would have to be MOS though. I’m going Reddot on everything moving forward.

[steve]

The guys are hacking on you because of your verbiage in your OP, but I'm picking up what your putting down.

As much as I love my Berettas, they don't make a lot of sense if I have to limit them to ten round mags. I have plenty of 18 and 20 round 92 mags, so if those were to be grandfathered in any proposed legislation that would ease things, but there's no guarantee of that happening this time. An uber expensive production gun like the aforementioned Staccato makes even less, especially since it's really just a high cap 1911 and I already have plenty of those in single stack form.

The real question is, would Glock see the market share in a single stack .45? Unfortunately, I think the answer to that is no. Nine millimeter is by far the most popular centerfire pistol round today and gaining more traction every day. Glock already has successful single stack nines. I don't see them tooling up for one in .45acp.

If a mag ban comes back the 45GAP will return. The Glock 37 really is a nice gun but finding ammo is a pain in the ass.

[Totem Polar]

Would a single stack, Commander sized 45 ACP Glock make any sense in today’s America?

Only if it actually ran like most Glocks. The 36 was and is not an overwhelming success in that regard.

[Navin Johnson]

The gun is already available.

What advantages does a .45 bring to the table in practical real world use?

[FrankinCA]

I’ve lived in a country where guns are basically illegal and I had to leave my pocketknife in the truck before going out in public.

I won’t be complying with any bs here.

This...America, A #1

[Nephrology]

Only if it actually ran like most Glocks. The 36 was and is not an overwhelming success in that regard.

Was surprised it took a whole page to arrive at this, but yes, this is all true.

I toyed with the idea of buying a 36 at one point, never did. I am assuming if there is that style of legislation coming down the pipeline (still think this is very unlikely to happen at federal level for lots of reasons), I'm assuming a 10rd max capacity limit would be the goal, given that NYS tried to pass a more restrictive law and it did not pass muster in the NY court system. For that reason, G26s/48s/43xs would be my choices.

Either way, I already have lots of magazines that hold a lot more ammo than 10 rounds. They won't be going anywhere.

[OlongJohnson]

My P220s aren't going anywhere. A little thicker and blockier than a 1911, but they also work a heck of a lot better for me than a 1911. Kind of a railed, lightweight Commander with a really nice TDA trigger.

[willie]

The Glock 26 with 10 rd mags fit the bill here. So would a Glock 19 with 10 rd magazines. I would worry about what's legal and not fret about others' sensibilities. The op's 45's would be good. I have already purchased a supply of 10 rd mags for my CZ PCR's which I favor. One thing that I have not seen stated is that if we shoot the larger pistols more accurately, then we might consider not discarding them because their capacity becomes limited. Note I said might consider. I foresee that some of us who were lazy about carrying a second magazine might soon start doing so.

My lgs has many different mags in stock for HK, Glock,and AR rifles. I do not work there. When I do visit, I buy them a drink. I noticed that they have the HK P30 17 shot mags in stock as well as a few HK handguns at fair prices. They ship. There seems not to be that big run on magazines as we have seen before.


The op asked about pistols with single stack mags, and I gave him a double stack answer. Therefore, my reply may have little value.

[JAH 3rd]

My P220s aren't going anywhere. A little thicker and blockier than a 1911, but they also work a heck of a lot better for me than a 1911. Kind of a railed, lightweight Commander with a really nice TDA trigger.

Dusting off my Ruger P90. DA/SA 45acp with a decocker/safety. Aluminum receiver and stainless slide. 8+1. It is big, ugly, and not very ergonomic. Nice companion.

[Inkwell 41]

The guys are hacking on you because of your verbiage in your OP, but I'm picking up what your putting down.

As much as I love my Berettas, they don't make a lot of sense if I have to limit them to ten round mags. I have plenty of 18 and 20 round 92 mags, so if those were to be grandfathered in any proposed legislation that would ease things, but there's no guarantee of that happening this time. An uber expensive production gun like the aforementioned Staccato makes even less, especially since it's really just a high cap 1911 and I already have plenty of those in single stack form.

The real question is, would Glock see the market share in a single stack .45? Unfortunately, I think the answer to that is no. Nine millimeter is by far the most popular centerfire pistol round today and gaining more traction every day. Glock already has successful single stack nines. I don't see them tooling up for one in .45acp.

Thanks. They can hack all they want. I was setting up a reason where a single stack, striker fired, commander sized, 45ACP Glock made sense. The size and brand were were stated for the purpose of excluding the G36 and anything not a Glock. Capacity was specified to reinforce the size. MOS was specified because I don’t want to bother sending parts out for machining. There are some great shops doing awesome work out there, no argument with that. But there is something to be said for “showroom stock”.

I purposefully dropped this in the Semi-auto pistol part of the hardware forum, in the hope that we’d all focus on the firearm and not the politics mentioned to set the table. I’ve watched enough threads here go sideways and should have anticipated the reactions.

I think we’re all ticked off enough at what’s coming out of DC these days, I know I am.

[Wendell]

...I really don’t want to, nor an I afford, to carry a high dollar gun that I can’t have several copies of and might end up in an evidence locker for a long while...

Worried about the cost of a pistol involved in a defensive gun use? That is a sentiment that we hear somewhat regularly, but it is completely ridiculous. What about the cost of your legal defense? Even in the most straight-forward of cases, a no-doubt 'good-shoot', even in a supposedly 'gun-friendly' state, even when caught on video, will take months and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars. That cost will make the value of any impounded pistol to seem like pocket change.

[BehindBlueI's]

Worried about the cost of a pistol involved in a defensive gun use? That is a sentiment that we hear somewhat regularly, but it is completely ridiculous. What about the cost of your legal defense? Even in the most straight-forward of cases, a no-doubt 'good-shoot', even in a supposedly 'gun-friendly' state, even when caught on video, will take months and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars. That cost will make the value of any impounded pistol to seem like pocket change.

That's very broad advise that may or may not apply. More and more "gun friendly" states are beginning to shield righteous shoots from civil liability, and I've seen good shoots declared as such at the scene by the on call prosecutor. The gun still goes into evidence while things get finalized, but having been through the process from both sides I don't think it's a silly concern at all.

[Inkwell 41]

Worried about the cost of a pistol involved in a defensive gun use? That is a sentiment that we hear somewhat regularly, but it is completely ridiculous. What about the cost of your legal defense? Even in the most straight-forward of cases, a no-doubt 'good-shoot', even in a supposedly 'gun-friendly' state, even when caught on video, will take months and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars. That cost will make the value of any impounded pistol to seem like pocket change.

“Worried about the cost” and “can’t afford” are two different things. I wouldn’t worry about spending $1800 on a Glock and 2 spares. I can’t afford spending $11,000 on a Wilson Combat 1911 and 2 spares.

[JRB]

I did this same calculus some years back, and realized the HK45C LEM solves all of these problems very well. Albeit without the attractive blue-label pricing, reasonable genuine mag prices, and massive holster support.

[OlongJohnson]

Can't believe we've gotten this far without...

70063

[JRB]

Can't believe we've gotten this far without...

70063

Because that's clearly a photoshop - the authentic Glock 1911 has forward slide serrations, an undercut trigger guard, and an FBI-spec oversized mag release. :)

[CLaw]

And plastic sight protectors, so you can chose your own sights...


Because that's clearly a photoshop - the authentic Glock 1911 has forward slide serrations, an undercut trigger guard, and an FBI-spec oversized mag release. :)

[UNK]

That's very broad advise that may or may not apply. More and more "gun friendly" states are beginning to shield righteous shoots from civil liability, and I've seen good shoots declared as such at the scene by the on call prosecutor. The gun still goes into evidence while things get finalized, but having been through the process from both sides I don't think it's a silly concern at all.

Ive believe there was a lawsuit here over an individual trying to get a gun back after a good shoot. As I understand it, if they confiscate you will never get it back. Makes it hard to swallow buying multiples of a small 9mm 1911 that is going for multiples of the price of a 26.

[UNK]

And plastic dovetail protectors, so you can chose your own sights...

FIFY

[JonInWA]

So, basically a single stack Glock 38, but in .45 ACP. I'd prefer that much more than the existing G30/G30S. And I like the ergos of the girth of the G38, even if there's some redundant bulk when moving that platform to a single-stack .45 ACP.

Best, Jon

[Shorikid]

I'd your looking for a single stack sized Glock in 45acp, there is an easy solution. M&P makes a 10rd .45acp that is basically commander sized.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

Ive believe there was a lawsuit here over an individual trying to get a gun back after a good shoot. As I understand it, if they confiscate you will never get it back. Makes it hard to swallow buying multiples of a small 9mm 1911 that is going for multiples of the price of a 26.

You get it back here. Days, weeks, months, years, all depends on many factors. My rifle was 13 months, but it was an issued rifle so the only personal property I had in time out was 2 pmags.

[UNK]

You get it back here. Days, weeks, months, years, all depends on many factors. My rifle was 13 months, but it was an issued rifle so the only personal property I had in time out was 2 pmags.

I think it is some kind of unofficial policy or it was at one time. From what I heard it came from the Chief. Back when you had to get a signature for a SBR or silencer they would not sign off on those. I live in liberal utopia thats surrounded by good ol boys.

[Bucky]

So, basically a single stack Glock 38, but in .45 ACP. I'd prefer that much more than the existing G30/G30S. And I like the ergos of the girth of the G38, even if there's some redundant bulk when moving that platform to a single-stack .45 ACP.

Best, Jon

If GLOCK only increased the grip size of the Glock .45s to accommodate the added length of the cartridge (front to back) and not the side to side width, they wouldn’t be so unwieldy. I can certainly see the appeal of a G38 size ACP. Heck, maybe Shield arms can follow up with a 10 round flush fit Mag. :p

[rob_s]

All things in cycles.

The last go ‘round with federal gun laws, the AWB of ‘94, the same thing happened. When magazine capacity for new-purchase magazines but non-LE became illegal, we saw a resurgence in interest in the 1911 based on the idea that 8+1 rounds of .45 was “better” than 10+1 of 9mm.

[Stephanie B]

I really don’t want to, nor an I afford, to carry a high dollar gun that I can’t have several copies of and might end up in an evidence locker for a long while.

It seems to me that self-defense shootings are rather rare. Isn't this like owning a second car in case you crack up the daily driver?

[JonInWA]

All things in cycles.

The last go ‘round with federal gun laws, the AWB of ‘94, the same thing happened. When magazine capacity for new-purchase magazines but non-LE became illegal, we saw a resurgence in interest in the 1911 based on the idea that 8+1 rounds of .45 was “better” than 10+1 of 9mm.

I agree, but here's where I fundamentally differ today: Today, if I shoot better/best with, say a G17, I woulld stick with that platform regardless of the mandated magazine diminishment from 17 to 10 rounds. While such legal capacity restriction may be viewed as nothing less than a platfor emasculation by many, to me the key determnants are 1) Which platform do I shoot the best with, and 2), even with the diinished ammunition capacity, do I still have sufficient capacity to perform within my venues of use.

Quite bluntly, in a semi-automatic pistol, I think that a 7-10 round capacity provides sufficient capacity for any defensive scenario I'm likely to encounter. I would (and do) carry sufficient reload magazines; for a 7-10 round pistol, I would carry 2 reload magazines in addition to the one in the gun.

The caliber performance differentiations between 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP have been rendered more or less moot in most situations, given quality cartridges. The key determnants in a given platform for me than devolve towards ergonomics, desirable platform features, accuracy, reliability, durability, ease of maintenance and aftermarket support. Capacity and caliber (between the three calibers I raised) are far, far down on my key criteria list.

That said, I stil think there's a market for a single-stack G38 in 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP-on the grounds what I've discussed above, plus it woulld be more size-efficient.

I thnk an argument can be made is that having a large capacity magazine has provided many with a false sense of security and perceived competance, and an increased ability to get into trouble due to the potential legal ramifications attached to each round expended.

Best, Jon

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve always thought the GAP had great appeal, but it just never got traction. Maybe it will come back.

[rob_s]

I agree, but here's where I fundamentally differ today: Today, if I shoot better/best with, say a G17, I woulld stick with that platform regardless of the mandated magazine diminishment from 17 to 10 rounds. While such legal capacity restriction may be viewed as nothing less than a platfor emasculation by many, to me the key determnants are 1) Which platform do I shoot the best with, and 2), even with the diinished ammunition capacity, do I still have sufficient capacity to perform within my venues of use.

Which was part of the argument in the 90s as well, particularly if you think about what was even available in terms of semi-auto handguns at the time. The argument, I believe, was that a fullsize 1911 was about the same size as a Glock 17, and in that case you "might as well" have 9 rounds of .45 as 11 rounds of 9mm. it wasn't even about what you shoot better, but strictly what was even available.

[Inkwell 41]

It seems to me that self-defense shootings are rather rare. Isn't this like owning a second car in case you crack up the daily driver?

There is truth in what you are saying. However, I rather have something and not need it, than need something and not have it.

[JonInWA]

Which was part of the argument in the 90s as well, particularly if you think about what was even available in terms of semi-auto handguns at the time. The argument, I believe, was that a fullsize 1911 was about the same size as a Glock 17, and in that case you "might as well" have 9 rounds of .45 as 11 rounds of 9mm. it wasn't even about what you shoot better, but strictly what was even available.

Another arguably key difference today is that 9mm cartridge performance is truly on parity with .40 and .45ACP. In the 1990s, the prevailing reaction to 9mm was that you needed to have a disproportionate amount of cartridge capacity to make up for the comparative inferiority of the 9mm's performance capabilities at the time.

My thought currently is that .40 provides increased penetration and .45 CP can perform with continued adequacy even if the hollow point bullet's expansion capabilities are hindered by being clogged by multiple layers of clothing needing to be penetrated, but otherwise 9mm (quality, vetted 9mm) provides equivelant performances with less weight, less recoil, and, in the case of .40, less demands on the platform's material strength. In other words, 9mm is easier to carry, easier to use, less expensive, and provides greater compatative longevity to its platforms.

These days, what also drives my personal train is what cartridridges do I have on hand, and which can I reasonably expect to be able to replenish with use. In 2020 and 2021, that means simply that I'm more likely to be able to get .40 and .45 ACP, so that's what I've been predominantly using. I'll switch to 9mm in late April through June, as I'm comitted to use my P320RX X-Carry in 9mm in our State IDPA Championship match, and continue with long-term Check-Mate magazine evaluations with it-I've got an available stock oof 9mm on hand for that. While I've got some .38 Special +P and .357 magnum on hand, it's in limited quantities, so I haven't used my revolvers at all since last year...

For duty use, this year I qualified with my Glock G19, G22 and G21, pretty much covering all my cartridge bases...

And, if I hunt this year, I'll carry either my G22 or G21 with Underwood Lehigh (or in the case of the G21, I also have some Buffalo Bore) cartridges for back-up.

Best, Jon

[rob_s]

Another arguably key difference today is that 9mm cartridge performance is truly on parity with .40 and .45ACP. In the 1990s, the prevailing reaction to 9mm was that you needed to have a disproportionate amount of cartridge capacity to make up for the comparative inferiority of the 9mm's performance capabilities at the time.

My thought currently is that .40 provides increased penetration and .45 CP can perform with continued adequacy even if the hollow point bullet's expansion capabilities are hindered by being clogged by multiple layers of clothing needing to be penetrated, but otherwise 9mm (quality, vetted 9mm) provides equivelant performances with less weight, less recoil, and, in the case of .40, less demands on the platform's material strength. In other words, 9mm is easier to carry, easier to use, less expensive, and provides greater compatative longevity to its platforms.

These days, what also drives my personal train is what cartridridges do I have on hand, and which can I reasonably expect to be able to replenish with use. In 2020 and 2021, that means simply that I'm more likely to be able to get .40 and .45 ACP, so that's what I've been predominantly using. I'll switch to 9mm in late April through June, as I'm comitted to use my P320RX X-Carry in 9mm in our State IDPA Championship match, and continue with long-term Check-Mate magazine evaluations with it-I've got an available stock oof 9mm on hand for that. While I've got some .38 Special +P and .357 magnum on hand, it's in limited quantities, so I haven't used my revolvers at all since last year...


Ammo tech of the '90s vs ammo availability today and beyond are definitely very real aspects of the discussion. Then there's the future-proofing as well of ammo availability today vs ten years from now, assuming a long-term, if not permanent, ban. Of course, if the .45 craze takes on in the coming months or year, does .45 remain as available? Does .40 or even .357sig have a resurgence?

I personally have stuck with 9mm for the last decade plus, and I'm really still ok with that, but I do get a twinge thinking I wish I had invested in other calibers, particularly those that don't require an adjusted form-factor (e.g. a Glock 23 that would fit in my Glock 19 holster, if need be).

Which, to the OP, is one challenge related to a complete platform change. New mags, holster, mag pouches, possible carry styles, spare parts...

maybe Glock makes a G19-sized .45, at least insomuch as the elements that fit within a holster. Probably not feasible, but still... Maybe a .40 version of the G48...

[David S.]

It seems to me that self-defense shootings are rather rare. Isn't this like owning a second car in case you crack up the daily driver?

I'm sure you have read this argument here. In case it wasn't a rhetorical question.

Historically, the P-F position on multiple copies of the same (or very similar) guns.
- One carry gun.
- One practice/training gun that matches the carry gun so you don't wear out your carry gun and ammo.
- One spare gun incase the training gun goes hard down or your primary carry gun gets held by police after a use of force scenario.

I suspect the third (or more) copy is probably more important for those with a high training volume, and more or less a luxury for those with a relatively low training volume.

[JAH 3rd]

Due to the ammo situation of the past year or so, I was looking at caliber options. I started to look at additional calibers, settling on the 10mm. I purchased a Glock 20 gen 4 last year. I like the additions to the grip surface as compared to my Gen 3 Glock 21. I may get a Glock 21 gen 4 at some time in the future.

I also look at platform/caliber sharing. A 44 magnum or 45LC revolver and lever rifle. A Beretta 92 with a magazine compatible CX4. Just an option to keep the long guns stoked with pistol caliber cartridges.

Since no one can predict the future, forward thinking is more crucial than ever. The wealth of info and experience on this website is valuable since someone usually has "been there, done that" on whatever the subject matter!!!

[rob_s]

It seems to me that self-defense shootings are rather rare. Isn't this like owning a second car in case you crack up the daily driver?


I'm sure you have read this argument here. In case it wasn't a rhetorical question.

Historically, the P-F position on multiple copies of the same (or very similar) guns.
- One carry gun.
- One practice/training gun that matches the carry gun so you don't wear out your carry gun and ammo.
- One spare gun incase the training gun goes hard down or your primary carry gun gets held by police after a use of force scenario.

I suspect the third (or more) copy is probably more important for those with a high training volume, and more or less a luxury for those with a relatively low training volume.

For me it's always been far more practical.

One copy that I carry.
One that I compete with so as to not have to unload/reload/re-holster, or generally munge around with the carry gun
One copy in the nightstand
maybe one in the truckvault
one in the office
one near the front door...

so putting it in car terms, while I might drive a Mustang to work every day, it's impractical to have that also be my race car, and it certainly would be nice to also have one at my vacation house so that when I fly into town I can have something to drive.

I'm too fucking bougie to have one copy of any one gun.

[Rex G]

I do not remember a time when I did not like the concept of the Colt Commander, but I had a run of bad functional-reliability luck with them. One of them, which was reliable, was my 24/7/365 duty and personal-time pistol, until it decided to stop being reliable. It was succeeded by a SIG P220, and I loved it, as my 24/7/365 duty and personal-time pistol, except that the heel-clip mag release would occasionally snag on car seat upholstery, causing partial mag drops, which I decided to stop tolerating, after a couple of years, prompting a several-year return to revolvers for duty and most personal personal carry. Those Commanders, and that P220, preceded the 1994 AWB. I had little interest in double-column-magazine pistols, until affected by my employer’s duty pistol policy, when double-column-mag .40 pistols became the thing, for a while.

So, yes, I might well like a .45 ACP Glock-ish Commander-ish pistol, if it is a good, ergonomic fit, for my personal, individual hands. Emphasis on “IF.” I have stopped questing for next-new-thing auto-pistol holy grails, but am not immune to taking a look at something new, from a reputable maker. I would rather that it use a proven RSA, already proven in other .45 ACP Glocks. If it uses a newly-designed RSA, I am going to be waiting quite a while, while others do long-term guinea pigging.

A full-Commander-height grip is necessary, as I have aged-out of handguns that fire duty-level cartridges, unless they have full-duty-pistol-height grips. That is why I traded-away my G19 pistols, canceled plans to acquire a G30 or G29, and have not considered buying G43/G48 pistols.

[Nephrology]

I personally have stuck with 9mm for the last decade plus, and I'm really still ok with that, but I do get a twinge thinking I wish I had invested in other calibers, particularly those that don't require an adjusted form-factor (e.g. a Glock 23 that would fit in my Glock 19 holster, if need be).

I tried doing this. Bought a Glock 23 and a Glock 35, both gen 4. The glock 23 was a dog - it was unpleasant to shoot and refused to feed 180gr Federal HSTs, wand so it was sold with extreme prejudice. The Glock 35 I still own, but with the most recent panic, .40 vanished just about as fast as 9 did. Basically a failure.

I actually opted for the M&P45 as my .45 pistol of choice. Had two, but sold my spare. Doesn't have the advantage of shared holsters etc, but then again, neither would the Glock 21, and the M&P has the advantage of native 10rd capacity. It's a nice gun, but had same problem as .40 - gone in a flash. I might pick up another M&P45 down the line, but its low on my list of priorities.

Also, to be clear, my "investment" in both platforms was pretty minimal. I think I had/have under a case of .40 and .45 left at this point. Not likely to buy more of that either any time soon.

[OlongJohnson]

I'm trying to sell my second to last .40. The keeper is a USP .40 FS that I got for stupid cheap. It is old enough to have actual lands and grooves in its barrel, so I could shoot lead if I had to. Probably have enough jacketed stuff I'll never buy more. First time I took it to the range, I was asking myself, "Why do I have all that other stuff?" USPs just seem to work for me. I've replaced the recoil springs and have another set in stock, in case I do go another 25k (HKCS' recommended interval). Not bad for a forever gun.

[TGS]

I’ve always thought the GAP had great appeal, but it just never got traction. Maybe it will come back.

Why would it come back? 45 GAPs genesis or purpose doesn't have anything to do with capacity.

[RevolverRob]

Isn't the compelling reason against running 10-round mags in a full size Glock that the 10-round mags are questionable in their reliability?

The Commander Sized striker fired .45 out there with a 10-round mag is the Smith M&P 2.0 Compact in .45. Seems like an easy button.

[steve]

Why would it come back? 45 GAPs genesis or purpose doesn't have anything to do with capacity.

I think it had a lot to do with capacity. 10 rounds was exactly what fit in a Glock 37, it was a Glock 17 frame. I think he banked on the assault weapon ban being continued and when it didn't it the GAP didn't catch on.

[HeavyDuty]

Why would it come back? 45 GAPs genesis or purpose doesn't have anything to do with capacity.


I think it had a lot to do with capacity. 10 rounds was exactly what fit in a Glock 37, it was a Glock 17 frame. I think he banked on the assault weapon ban being continued and when it didn't it the GAP didn't catch on.

Capacity, and grip size. Even a Gen4 .45 Glock is at the absolute limit of what I can comfortably grip; Linda’s Gen2 21 is a memento, not a practical gun for me (although I shoot it well, I always feel I’m right on the edge of losing it.)

To my way of thinking a cartridge that was substantially similar to the .45 ACP in a smaller Glock package has great appeal. I never did buy into it, but even now casually watch for a 39.

[TGS]

I think it had a lot to do with capacity. 10 rounds was exactly what fit in a Glock 37, it was a Glock 17 frame. I think he banked on the assault weapon ban being continued and when it didn't it the GAP didn't catch on.

45 GAP and 45 ACP take up the same capacity in a given size of magazine.

If you have a magazine size that fits 10 rounds of 45ACP, it will still only fit 10 of 45 GAP.

It's not like you gain any extra rounds as you would if chambering a gun in 40 or 9mm. The only difference is it's a few mm shorter in length. Nothing to do with capacity.

[steve]

45 GAP and 45 ACP take up the same capacity in a given size of magazine.

If you have a magazine size that fits 10 rounds of 45ACP, it will still only fit 10 of 45 GAP.

It's not like you gain any extra rounds as you would if chambering a gun in 40 or 9mm. The only difference is it's a few mm shorter in length. Nothing to do with capacity.


Not true, the 45 GAP is shorter by a long shot. It fits in a Glock 17 size magazine. The 45ACP does not. The 45 GAP is much more efficient in case capacity and that is why it works in a smaller frame gun.

[TGS]

Not true, the 45 GAP is shorter by a long shot. It fits in a Glock 17 size magazine. The 45ACP does not. The 45 GAP is much more efficient in case capacity and that is why it works in a smaller frame gun.

Yes, as I already stated, the 45 GAP is shorter than the 45 ACP. I don't know why you think you're correcting me on the 45 GAP being shorter in OAL than 45 ACP when I've already stated such.

Grip frame distance from front to rear has nothing to do with magazine capacity.

The 45 GAP is shorter. That is the genesis and purpose for the 45 GAP, to fit in grip frames which are shorter "reach" (distance from front to rear). That does not mean the 45 GAP has more capacity for a given length of magazine....the pills are just as fat. A 10 round 45 GAP magazine is identical in length to a 10 round 45 ACP magazine.

If I'm following the conversation, the idea here that Heavy Duty is wondering whether 45 GAP could possibly face a resurgence under 10 round magazine limits (or general future gun control, that's the point of the thread). I don't see why it would, because a 45 GAP wouldn't gain you anything in context of capacity vs 45 ACP.

So, unless I'm misunderstanding something here about what you guys are putting down.....no, 45 GAP has nothing to do with capacity.

[psalms144.1]

Back to the OP's question, I never understood why GLOCK produced the 30 with such a short grip, requiring an extended magazine to get the 10th round in it.

If GLOCK would produce a 30X, with a G19-length grip, it would easily hold 10+1, and mate it to the 30S's slim slide, I think it would be an ENORMOUS hit in capacity restricted locales. Think a 38S, but in 45ACP.

I would love a true G19-sized 10 shot .45 ACP GLOCK, because I too find the large frame pistols to be just barely useable given the size/shape of the grip. Not sure I'd be interested in diving into a different caliber (45GAP) to achieve that, though, given what we've learned in the last year about ammo availability in times of trouble. I normally wouldn't worry about that as I could just roll my own ammo, but, the great primer drought of 2020 has changed that perception...

[psalms144.1]

Yes.

Grip frame distance from front to rear has nothing to do with magazine capacity.

So, unless I'm misunderstanding something here about what you guys are putting down.....no, 45 GAP has nothing to do with capacity.I THINK the point is a lot of folks find the 30/21 frame to be too big to shoot well. SO, if you want .45 ACP performance in a 10 round max capacity setting, the GAP makes sense (since it fits into a G19-equivalent frame).

[TGS]

I THINK the point is a lot of folks find the 30/21 frame to be too big to shoot well. SO, if you want .45 ACP performance in a 10 round max capacity setting, the GAP makes sense (since it fits into a G19-equivalent frame).

Right.

I understand this.

I understand the point of the 45 GAP.

I'm not getting the correlation to why it would make a resurgence under stricter gun control, as nothing changes between before and after gun control that would make the 45GAP more successful.

[psalms144.1]

I'm not getting the correlation to why it would make a resurgence under stricter gun control, as nothing changes between before and after gun control that would make the 45GAP more successful.Because folks like G19s, but they don't have a great track record with 10-round mags. So a pistol built around a 10 round mag that works in a caliber that mirrors the performance of the legendary .45 American Communist Perforator makes more sense than carrying the G19 with maybe reliable neutered mags.

For me, the M&P45C makes more sense, or a LW Commander, but, that's just me. Actually, the sadly discontinued M&P45 2.0 Subcompact (4" barrel, G19 length grip, 8+1) made the most sense, but I don't know if they ever even hit the market.

[steve]

Right.

I understand this.

I understand the point of the 45 GAP.

I'm not getting the correlation to why it would make a resurgence under stricter gun control, as nothing changes between before and after gun control that would make the 45GAP more successful.

In 1994 when the AWB passed guns got smaller. The AWB created a lot of new ideas regarding 10 round magazine limits. If AWB2 comes out the 45GAP will be a hit again. The 45GAP was born at the request of Glock to CCI. It wasn't produced until 2003 and didn't really hit the market until after the AWB ended in September of 2004. We are arguing apples and oranges. I believe it will come back if 10 round magazine limits come back. It would not be hard for Glock to market it as the best thing when you only have 10 rounds. It fits in a smaller platform that the 45acp can't, that is the selling feature for Glock.

[ST911]

Adverse legislation changes nothing for me. If I'm truly committed to the supremacy of safe practices and accountable hits, I'd be foolish to abandon umpteen thousand rounds and hours of training, practice, proficiency, habituation, and an established logistical chain for a gain of...what. I'll leave the house shortly wearing my 19X, which is good enough today for needful things. Were it 7 rounds lighter, nothing else about that worthiness would change.

Micros/subs and small mids dominate EDC for most, with the majority being a 380/9/38. If GTG today, legislation would seemingly change nothing about that.

I fiercely object to the infringement, but the practical and functional issues aren't the thing they were 94-04.

Until the craze, I couldn't give away 357sig or 45gap ammo.

[Navin Johnson]

The slide on the GAP is massive....difficult-er to hide.....even with a small grip.

The easy button for Glock is double stack 10 round mags for g19 (that work) Likely much more profitable than a new (old) platform and caliber that already failed once.

[WobblyPossum]

The slide on the GAP is massive....difficult-er to hide.....even with a small grip.

The easy button for Glock is double stack 10 round mags for g19 (that work) Likely much more profitable than a new (old) platform and caliber that already failed once.

If Glock took the time to design 10 round G17 and G19 mags that were as reliable with hollow-point duty/defense ammunition as the standard capacity mags, much of this discussion would be moot. I think they probably would put the time and money into this if another AWB was signed into law. The profit is there. There are waaaay more people legally carrying concealed firearms in 2021 than there were in 1994 simply due to the changes in CCW permit laws at the state level throughout the US. The market for CCW stuff is an order of magnitude larger and more profitable now.

[OlongJohnson]

If Glock took the time to design 10 round G17 and G19 mags that were as reliable with hollow-point duty/defense ammunition as the standard capacity mags, much of this discussion would be moot. I think they probably would put the time and money into this if another AWB was signed into law. The profit is there. There are waaaay more people legally carrying concealed firearms in 2021 than there were in 1994 simply due to the changes in CCW permit laws at the state level throughout the US. The market for CCW stuff is an order of magnitude larger and more profitable now.

Glock does Glock. They'll ramp up production of what's already designed and tooled and tell us we'll like it.

[WobblyPossum]

Glock does Glock. They'll ramp up production of what's already designed and tooled and tell us we'll like it.

I think Glock likes to make fat stacks of cash money which is why they released the G42 when everyone wanted a G43 and then they released the G43 after a year of G42 sales. They did the same thing with the G43X and G48 which sold for a little over a year before the slightly better MOS versions came out. I believe there are fat stacks of cash to be had in making reliable 10 round double stack Glock mags should another AWB come to pass.

[OlongJohnson]

What would follow your described pattern is selling everyone 10-round mags that are already designed and tooled, then "inventing" 10-round mags that actually work and selling them to everyone again.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I hate to say this but I had a good number of Glock 17 and 19 10 rounders. I bought them real cheap after the ban expired and they were dumped for a few bucks each. Used them for IDPA for years without any problem.

[willie]

Discarding one's non compact size pistol because he or she must use a 10 rd magazine might mean having to learn a new platform. Further, most agree that as pistol size decreases from full or mid size to compact or sub compact, reliability might decrease. Keeping what you have might be the most logical plan. Anyway, right now finding a replacement and vetting it by shooting will be difficult to achieve.

A Glock 40 S&W with a 357 Sig barrel and a 9mm conversion barrel looks good right now. So does my P2000 357 Sig with a factory 40 S&W barrel.

[jh9]

I hate to say this but I had a good number of Glock 17 and 19 10 rounders. I bought them real cheap after the ban expired and they were dumped for a few bucks each. Used them for IDPA for years without any problem.

I think the problem is with hollowpoints.

I know several people that did similar with cheap post ban 10 round 9mm Glock mags, but the lion's share of the use was with round FMJ or maybe some truncated cone. Someone with better search skills can probably turn up the post with DocGKR and others noting that what institutional users were experiencing was issues with JHPs. And even that, IIRC, was over large round counts. So low volume testing of expensive JHPs might not reproduce the same results.

[HeavyDuty]

The slide on the GAP is massive....difficult-er to hide.....even with a small grip.

The easy button for Glock is double stack 10 round mags for g19 (that work) Likely much more profitable than a new (old) platform and caliber that already failed once.

The slide with on my new G27.5 is 1.08” and the difference is barely notable from my 26.5’s 1.0”. The 39 is 1.12”. I think the “massive” GAP slide is mostly internet hyperbole.

[HeavyDuty]

A Glock 40 S&W with a 357 Sig barrel and a 9mm conversion barrel looks good right now.

This crossed my mind when I impulse purchased my 27.5, and may even have been used to help justify the expenditure.

[Bucky]

If Glock took the time to design 10 round G17 and G19 mags that were as reliable with hollow-point duty/defense ammunition as the standard capacity mags, much of this discussion would be moot. I think they probably would put the time and money into this if another AWB was signed into law. The profit is there. There are waaaay more people legally carrying concealed firearms in 2021 than there were in 1994 simply due to the changes in CCW permit laws at the state level throughout the US. The market for CCW stuff is an order of magnitude larger and more profitable now.

I've heard on reasonable authority that the ATF jammed up GLOCK pretty good on the AWB and rejected their initial design. What I don't understand is, what after the AWB they didn't go back to a more reliable design, since they no longer needed to meet ATF requirements. (Well, I know the reason it comes down to money and the expense of redesign retooling.)

I had to use 10 rd. G17 mags in my 34 for restrictive states, but reverted to using standard magazines in non restrictive states. With my CZ, I just use the 10 rounders all around in production (and also CO when going to a restrictive state), as I don't feel there is any difference between them (save for the capacity) in terms of use or reliability. Also, you can't accidentally load 11 rounds for production, and if you're wrongly accused of doing such, you've got an "alibi".

[jh9]

I've heard on reasonable authority that the ATF jammed up GLOCK pretty good on the AWB and rejected their initial design. What I don't understand is, what after the AWB they didn't go back to a more reliable design, since they no longer needed to meet ATF requirements. (Well, I know the reason it comes down to money and the expense of redesign retooling.)
.

I think that was limited to the 10-round G21 magazines. I had a ban-era G21 back in the day and I heard the same thing. The ATF being able to squeeze in 11 is why the 10s needed a hydraulic press to load that 10th round. I don't remember my 10-round 9mm or .40 Glock mags being in the same ballpark, but that was awhile ago.

[Bucky]

I think that was limited to the 10-round G21 magazines. I had a ban-era G21 back in the day and I heard the same thing. The ATF being able to squeeze in 11 is why the 10s needed a hydraulic press to load that 10th round. I don't remember my 10-round 9mm or .40 Glock mags being in the same ballpark, but that was awhile ago.

I was told it was the G17 mags they were able to get 11 in.

[Rmiked]

Guys I was reading this thread from the beginning. I am a Beretta 92 fan (92A1) and seriously considering acquiring a 9mm 1911. I like the 1911 design and history and prefer 9mm. One trait of the 1911 that could be beneficial is the limited magazine capacity. If the Dems are successful is banning magazines >10 rounds, I would feel adequately armed with my Beretta 92A1 with 10 round magazines. Don’t misunderstand me here, I don’t intend on giving up my 17 round magazines, but if it came down to being a FELON or spending $1000s on an Attorney to keep them, I could live with my Beretta and 10 round magazines. I thought I read some comments indicating that a 10 round limit might make the Beretta 92 platform less desirable? Is there an explanation to support this idea? Is it the idea that the double stack magazine makes the grip thicker and if you have a 10 round limit, you might as well have the thinner grip on a different style pistol? Thanks

[M2CattleCo]

If you want more than 10 rounds, carry more than 10 rounds.

By the time you end up before a jury of leftists where minutiae like that is brought up, you’re so far gone it won’t matter at that point.

[HeavyDuty]

If you want more than 10 rounds, carry more than 10 rounds.

By the time you end up before a jury of leftists where minutiae like that is brought up, you’re so far gone it won’t matter at that point.

Yeah, enjoy thug life until you get bailed out. We fix stuff like this legislatively.

[Catshooter]

Yeah, enjoy thug life until you get bailed out. We would like to fix stuff like this legislatively.

Fixed it for ya. With eight traitors on the SCOTUS that ain't gonna happen ever again.


Cat

[Borderland]

Why not just buy an HK45C, or does it have to be a striker? I'd rather have the DA/SA anyway.

[FrankB]

Worried about the cost of a pistol involved in a defensive gun use? That is a sentiment that we hear somewhat regularly, but it is completely ridiculous. What about the cost of your legal defense? Even in the most straight-forward of cases, a no-doubt 'good-shoot', even in a supposedly 'gun-friendly' state, even when caught on video, will take months and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars. That cost will make the value of any impounded pistol to seem like pocket change.

Wendell Not always. A self defense shooting took place about 1 mile from where I live, and the DA declared no charges would be filed the following morning. http://levittownnow.com/2016/11/15/police-respond-to-shooting-at-pizza-shop/

[pangloss]

Sign me up for a Glock 38 for carry and a Glock 37 for bedside duty for .45 caliber. I don't even own a 1911 right now, so whatever is closest to a G19 with dependable magazines within legal limits would be my pick-- which would probably mean a Glock 26, since I already carry one frequently or a Glock 48.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

[diananike]

Why not just buy an HK45C, or does it have to be a striker? I'd rather have the DA/SA anyway.

I have both a HK45C and a G48
The HK is quite a bit bigger
The G48 would be far preferable for comfort and concealability