Primary Machine stopping custom milling

[GJM]

I just received an email from Primary Machine, stating that April 15 will be their last day to order custom milling, and their future efforts will be focus on complete slides and parts. Between this and L&M, we are losing capable vendors. I wonder if Primary looked at the trend towards OEM optic cuts, and saw the handwriting on the wall.

[Artemas2]

I don't see a "custom" option on their site, is this in regards to truly custom requests or their standard optic cuts and Harbinger slides?

PM is who I had planned on doing my Shadow2 as soon as I can find an SRO in stock (and my car stops falling apart).

[GJM]

69540

[D-der]

I got the same email earlier today.
They've done a couple of slides for me, top shelf work.
I'd been checking their site periodically hoping to find
a P10C barrel.
It'll be interesting to see what develops.

[OlongJohnson]

I was thinking along those lines. The time it takes to change over a setup on a machine is dead time where the machines are still being paid for and the lights are on in the building, but the machines aren't making any money for the shop. Making a bunch of parts with one setup brings the cost way, way down.

[RJ]

Got the same email.

My G48 slide and 507k are en route now to PM, so I guess I got in under the wire.

I gather they are swapping over to a business model of just selling a turnkey optic-ready slide? Makes sense if they keep quality up.

[CWM11B]

DAMMIT! I hope I can get my M&P 2.0 compact in in time. Mark was my go to, GJM recommended these guys. Who's on deck next?

[Paul D]

I'm overnighting a Holosun to mount on my last uncut Glock slide for them to do.

[Lon]

DAMMIT! I hope I can get my M&P 2.0 compact in in time. Mark was my go to, GJM recommended these guys. Who's on deck next?

@chpws does good work.

https://chpws.com

I’ve also been watching Jagerwerks IG page. Their 509T work looks good.

[HeavyDuty]

You’d hope it was profitable enough to keep the ability to do custom machining. A lot of people will be left out by the shift. I find it hard to believe a complete slide can be provided for the cost of machining.

[mmc45414]

I find it hard to believe a complete slide can be provided for the cost of machining.
Yeah, I think the net cost of the part would be low, but...

The time it takes to change over a setup on a machine is dead time where the machines are still being paid for and the lights are on in the building, but the machines aren't making any money for the shop. Making a bunch of parts with one setup brings the cost way, way down.
Taking somebody's slide out of box, putting it onto a machine, making sure it is all located correctly, running it, cleaning it off, coating it, and putting it back into a box, compared to writing a program for a multi-axis turning center that feeds a bar and turns it into a slide without it being touched by a human hand. It is probably start to finish faster, cheaper (including overhead), and less error prone.

And if you do make an error, you need another stick of metal instead of explaining to some dude that his precious slide is ruined. When I worked for my wife's print shop we would have people bring in stuff like their poster from a concert in the seventies from the time they got back stage and got autographs from the band and smoked weed with them, and they would want us to laminate and mount it. If we botched up a print that we had printed we would say shit and print another one. Typically the employee that screwed it up would quietly ask their colleague for a reprint and we wouldn't even know. Not so easy with the concert poster...


I’ve also been watching Jagerwerks IG page.
I have been checking them out also. At this point I have no current need, but am always planning the next step. :cool:

[HeavyDuty]

My comment aside, there really wasn’t anything I was considering having milled at this point - the 43x MOS solved that problem for me, and if I decide to RDS the 26.5 or 27.5 I can wait for the new MOS versions to make the swim.

[OlongJohnson]

Yeah, I think the net cost of the part would be low, but...

Taking somebody's slide out of box, putting it onto a machine, making sure it is all located correctly, running it, cleaning it off, coating it, and putting it back into a box, compared to writing a program for a multi-axis turning center that feeds a bar and turns it into a slide without it being touched by a human hand. It is probably start to finish faster, cheaper (including overhead), and less error prone.

And if you do make an error, you need another stick of metal instead of explaining to some dude that his precious slide is ruined.

Yup, all of that.

Also, I just realized, the nitriding of a finished Glock slide probably chews up cutting tool inserts pretty good. Changing inserts takes time itself, but also requires re-validating the setup and generally making some adjustments to account for the different wear condition of the inserts, etc. Machining non-nitrided material may yield a useful increase in the number of parts that goes across the machine before there's significant time without the spindle turning. Spindle only makes money when it's turning. The rest of the time, it's a big loser.

[CWM11B]

@chpws does good work.

https://chpws.com

I’ve also been watching Jagerwerks IG page. Their 509T work looks good.

I actually have coupon from them for a free cut I won in a class a while back. I've held off based on some negative feedback I've seen on a couple of other forums. In one of them, the owner of the company joined in the discussion and it got a bit ugly. Who all has work by them here? I would hate to send the slide off and have a hack job done.

[dontshakepandas]

I actually have coupon from them for a free cut I won in a class a while back. I've held off based on some negative feedback I've seen on a couple of other forums. In one of them, the owner of the company joined in the discussion and it got a bit ugly. Who all has work by them here? I would hate to send the slide off and have a hack job done.

I've seen enough complaints about CHPWS and poor behavior from them that I wouldn't send them any of my slides for work. All companies make mistakes especially when experiencing rapid growth like they are, but it is how those mistakes are dealt with that make or break it for me.

I would still consider buying a plate from them as its something that wouldn't leave me with a permanent issue if something wasn't right.

[CWM11B]

That's pretty much where I am on them. Maybe I'll see if I can buy a 2.0 OR slide direct from Smith if I cant get in to Primary Machine fast enough

[Moylan]

I actually have coupon from them for a free cut I won in a class a while back. I've held off based on some negative feedback I've seen on a couple of other forums. In one of them, the owner of the company joined in the discussion and it got a bit ugly. Who all has work by them here? I would hate to send the slide off and have a hack job done.

Well, I've got a slide at Jagerwerks right now so...I'd have to agree hack work by them would be most unwelcome. They were recommended here in this subforum in the sticky as a good company, and I picked them over PM for maybe idiosyncratic reasons. I'm hoping I'll get a perfect slide back from Jagerwerks. Time will tell. I forget how long it's been there. At least two weeks, maybe 3, I think. 4-8 week backlog.

[dontshakepandas]

Well, I've got a slide at Jagerwerks right now so...I'd have to agree hack work by them would be most unwelcome. They were recommended here in this subforum in the sticky as a good company, and I picked them over PM for maybe idiosyncratic reasons. I'm hoping I'll get a perfect slide back from Jagerwerks. Time will tell. I forget how long it's been there. At least two weeks, maybe 3, I think. 4-8 week backlog.

Jagerwerks is good to go. CHPWS is the shop with the recent negative experiences.

[md8232]

I’m waiting on Optics Planet to get my next Holosun 407K to me so that PM can
do my last G43X.
Not holding my breath on OP making it in time. Ordered Dec. 1st.
Their latest guess is April 13th ship date.

[GJM]

Look what arrived from Primary Machine today.

69598

[TC215]

Jagerwerks is good to go. CHPWS is the shop with the recent negative experiences.

I’ve had Jagerwerks do a couple slides for me, and I’ve been very happy with their work and turnaround time.

[Trukinjp13]

Michigan has it going on in the slide milling world [emoji1591]

Jager does great work and Atei is well, Atei.

The chpws deal is a bummer. But have heard multiple reports from different sources about their milling work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DpdG]

I had C&H do a custom mill/plate for a slide I had with an odd mounting pattern, and while the final product meets expectations, the customer service experience was...not positive. I likely will not be doing business with them again, but if I were to, it would be for an in-stock, ready to ship item only.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Very sorry to see this news. The P09 I had done by them is excellent, and a good value when you consider the free cerakoating.


A definite loss for CZ shooters.

[757_Magnum]

DAMMIT! I hope I can get my M&P 2.0 compact in in time. Mark was my go to, GJM recommended these guys. Who's on deck next?

I'll add another thumbs up for Jagerwerks, but Maple Leaf Firearms is also good to go. I had them mill and add front serrations to an early gen 5 G19 and G26.

[CWM11B]

Mark Housel reccomended a guy to me, who is also kinda sorta local. He allows drop offs, so I road tripped yesterday and gave him a slide and RMR. very personable, gives a generous mil/LE discount. Like Mark, he's a one man shop and it is behind his house. It's also in the middle of nowhere NC. At least Mark's place was near a great BBQ joint :D He gave me a four week turnaround. I'll report back when it is done. You can view his site here: dpcustomworksllc.com

On another note, I'll be taking a hard pass on CHPWS. I've read way to many negative reviews here and elsewhere, and a former colleague who was a part of the range staff has had a G19 frame with them over 4 months with a promised turnaround of 4 weeks. He said customer service is horrible and they are very hard to deal with. He and I both won a free milling service from them in a class we were in. He had a slide done, said the work was fine, but it took way longer than they advertised. Took a chance with the G19 and his nightmare began. "Never again" were his words.

[JCN]

Maple leaf has been great.
Battlewerx has also been solid and very cost effective.

Sorry to hear about Primary Machine, I think the CO rules change killed a lot of their business.

I know that my CO shenanigans were enough to put me in their top 25 customers when they did a run of challenge coins.

69871

[zpelletier]

If they can sell milled slides for a cost within $50-100 of milling a customer owned slide they will sell them all as fast as they can make them. I think it’s a genius idea. Hopefully they will offer options outside of the standard Glock/Sig/S&W.

[RJ]

If they can sell milled slides for a cost within $50-100 of milling a customer owned slide they will sell them all as fast as they can make them. I think it’s a genius idea. Hopefully they will offer options outside of the standard Glock/Sig/S&W.

100%.

My G48 slide is at PM right now, I slid in under the wire. I’m in at $160.

I’d easily pay $200-$250 considering loss of use of my EDC, having the ability to keep my original slide, and having to pay shipping and insurance both ways.

I assume a new Red Dot Ready machined slide would need me to swap over or buy a parts kit though. No huge deal but if they threw in all that, it’d be a deal.

[JDB]

So who is the go-to for P30 milling now?

I'd like to put a Deltapoint Pro on one of mine

Thanks

[JCN]

100%.

My G48 slide is at PM right now, I slid in under the wire. I’m in at $160.

I’d easily pay $200-$250 considering loss of use of my EDC, having the ability to keep my original slide, and having to pay shipping and insurance both ways.

I assume a new Red Dot Ready machined slide would need me to swap over or buy a parts kit though. No huge deal but if they threw in all that, it’d be a deal.

@RJ, Brownell’s sells optics ready G48 slides for $239.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/slide-parts/slides/rms-slide-for-glock-48-prod133614.aspx

I have a G43 slide from them and it has been 100%.

Small parts are cheap and I have enough other Glock parts lying around I cannibalized.

[GearFondler]

Part of my frustration with Primary Machine was their insistence on sending in your RDS with the slide for "a perfect cut". I understand their reasons to a point, wanting to get an exact fit, but it is totally unnecessary and had to add a lot of extra time and effort to each slide done.
And now with pre-made slides they are finally agreeing, without admitting it, that custom fit pockets are not needed... Perhaps if they had dropped that requirement sooner they could still be offering slide cuts.

[HeavyDuty]

@RJ, Brownell’s sells optics ready G48 slides for $239.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/slide-parts/slides/rms-slide-for-glock-48-prod133614.aspx

I have a G43 slide from them and it has been 100%.

Small parts are cheap and I have enough other Glock parts lying around I cannibalized.

$217 with the first responder pricing.

[GJM]

Part of my frustration with Primary Machine was their insistence on sending in your RDS with the slide for "a perfect cut". I understand their reasons to a point, wanting to get an exact fit, but it is totally unnecessary and had to add a lot of extra time and effort to each slide done.
And now with pre-made slides they are finally agreeing, without admitting it, that custom fit pockets are not needed... Perhaps if they had dropped that requirement sooner they could still be offering slide cuts.

I believe they were more motivated by a “perfect installation,” than a “perfect fit.” Lots of people strip screws their first install or two, without proper tools.

[David S.]

So who is the go-to for P30 milling now?

I'd like to put a Deltapoint Pro on one of mine

.

I don't have any personal experience, but I know John Correa of Active Self Protection had some or all of his P30's milled by Wright Armory (https://wrightarmory.com/) in AZ. I'm pretty sure LangdonTactical worked with them in the past too.

[LtDave]

.

I don't have any personal experience, but I know John Correa of Active Self Protection had some or all of his P30's milled by Wright Armory (https://wrightarmory.com/) in AZ. I'm pretty sure LangdonTactical worked with them in the past too.

I’ve had two HK VP9s done by Wright Armory. Very fast turnaround, no issues.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Part of my frustration with Primary Machine was their insistence on sending in your RDS with the slide for "a perfect cut". I understand their reasons to a point, wanting to get an exact fit, but it is totally unnecessary and had to add a lot of extra time and effort to each slide done.
And now with pre-made slides they are finally agreeing, without admitting it, that custom fit pockets are not needed... Perhaps if they had dropped that requirement sooner they could still be offering slide cuts.

I disagree. As an example, I bought a Primary Machine P09 Deltapoint slide from a forum member here and had to use a rubber mallet to coax the Deltapoint into place. That gives me the warm and fuzzies, like the screws are the secondary and not primary means of affixing the optic to the slide.

My Holosun P09 slide I had done by them came with the optic I sent in installed so i dont know how tight it is, but it sure seems perfect.

By contrast, I had an RMR cut P07 slide done by a different company. The Holosun really wasnt perfectly tight until the screws were tightened down, leading me to feel that the screws were taking a good chunk of the recoil forces.

Similarly, on my LTT RDO slide the Holosun didn't feel totally secured until it was tightened down with screws.

Maybe it doesnt matter.... the aforementioned Holosun on the P07 never came lose in a couple thousand rounds. I just got the LTT so it hasn"t gotten much of a test yet. It just seems less secure than the "custom fit" way.

All of the above would be irrelevent if we could adopt the ACRO or Holosun 509 footprint as an industry standard, just sayin'

[D-der]

I'm more than happy with the slide work done
for me, fit , finish communication etc., I'm just
a little perplexed, as to why I couldn't get a
straight answer on screw size (thread / length)
when I enquired as Id like to have spares on hand.
The only answer I could get was, we used what
came with the optic (Holosun)?, unfortunately, not
much help there.

[Archer1440]

I’ve had two HK VP9s done by Wright Armory. Very fast turnaround, no issues.

Heck, just about anyone can do a VP9... but the P30 requires welding up the weight relief cavity on the left underside of the slide- not for the faint of heart, and requires a re-finish job. That’s why it costs at least 3X more, too.

I don’t see this specific service on Wright’s website but have made an inquiry- will update once answered.

[GJM]

The bottom of the DeltaPoint pro optic has a soft metal plate that may have to be urged into place with some gentle hammering with a direct milled installation. That said, I think an HK hammer gun slide is too valuable to direct mill a DP Pro circa 2021.

[guymontag]

Part of my frustration with Primary Machine was their insistence on sending in your RDS with the slide for "a perfect cut". I understand their reasons to a point, wanting to get an exact fit, but it is totally unnecessary and had to add a lot of extra time and effort to each slide done.
And now with pre-made slides they are finally agreeing, without admitting it, that custom fit pockets are not needed... Perhaps if they had dropped that requirement sooner they could still be offering slide cuts.

Interesting and clever observation regarding the pre-made slides. I never liked how shallow PM appeared to mount on CZ so I’ve worked with CZC and CGW instead, and now with more manufacturers jumping into optics ready it’s still a net benefit to the majority of shooters.


I disagree. As an example, I bought a Primary Machine P09 Deltapoint slide from a forum member here and had to use a rubber mallet to coax the Deltapoint into place. That gives me the warm and fuzzies, like the screws are the secondary and not primary means of affixing the optic to the slide.

My Holosun P09 slide I had done by them came with the optic I sent in installed so i dont know how tight it is, but it sure seems perfect.

By contrast, I had an RMR cut P07 slide done by a different company. The Holosun really wasnt perfectly tight until the screws were tightened down, leading me to feel that the screws were taking a good chunk of the recoil forces.

Similarly, on my LTT RDO slide the Holosun didn't feel totally secured until it was tightened down with screws.

Maybe it doesnt matter.... the aforementioned Holosun on the P07 never came lose in a couple thousand rounds. I just got the LTT so it hasn"t gotten much of a test yet. It just seems less secure than the "custom fit" way.

All of the above would be irrelevent if we could adopt the ACRO or Holosun 509 footprint as an industry standard, just sayin'

You are disagreeing (initially at least?) but as you acknowledge it’s based on feelings. I’ve shot plenty using CZC adapter plates and multi-optic cuts with little issue. I believe proper install and the quality of the optic are the major factors. Walther is standing behind their PDP engineering but I don’t know how custom their plate fit is to the optic itself. And also regarding tight fits - I had to use a rubber mallet to install a CZ barrel bushing but it can still shoot loose if I don’t install the front sight pin. I imagine a 1911 plunger tube might fit snug but you’d still want to stake that as well.

[GearFondler]

I believe they were more motivated by a “perfect installation,” than a “perfect fit.” Lots of people strip screws their first install or two, without proper tools.If that was their intention they sure hid it well behind their marketing spiel. They very clearly stated how their custom fit pockets were far superior to generic pockets and their installing of the optic was simply a customer service extra they threw in for free.
I disagree. As an example, I bought a Primary Machine P09 Deltapoint slide from a forum member here and had to use a rubber mallet to coax the Deltapoint into place. That gives me the warm and fuzzies, like the screws are the secondary and not primary means of affixing the optic to the slide.

My Holosun P09 slide I had done by them came with the optic I sent in installed so i dont know how tight it is, but it sure seems perfect.

By contrast, I had an RMR cut P07 slide done by a different company. The Holosun really wasnt perfectly tight until the screws were tightened down, leading me to feel that the screws were taking a good chunk of the recoil forces.

Similarly, on my LTT RDO slide the Holosun didn't feel totally secured until it was tightened down with screws.

Maybe it doesnt matter.... the aforementioned Holosun on the P07 never came lose in a couple thousand rounds. I just got the LTT so it hasn"t gotten much of a test yet. It just seems less secure than the "custom fit" way.

All of the above would be irrelevent if we could adopt the ACRO or Holosun 509 footprint as an industry standard, just sayin'I'm not going to argue that a custom cut pocket isn't better than a generic cut pocket on some minute level... I just believe that whatever increases it may offer are unnecessary while also potentially locking you out of using a different optic in the future.
I have two precut slides, one from Suarez and one from Zev. The Suarez slide pocket snuggly fit my RM06 with almost no discernable movement... Almost. I later installed a 508T on that slide and had to scrape off the finish to get it to sit flush within the pocket. I have no doubt that had I had a slide milled for my RM06 example I would then never have been able to install my 508T example on that slide.
The Zev slide fit that RM06 with slightly more movement when dropped in but became rock solid when I added the sealer plate and locked down the screws. It's not going anywhere any sooner than if it had been custom milled.
Again, I'm not saying that a custom cut isn't an arguably more secure method, just that the extra security is unnecessary and not worth the additional hassle it requires. But that's just my opinion and I could be wrong... Except now it seems Primary Machine also agrees with me.

[RJ]

Looks like their optics ready slides are available to order, $249.99 for G17/19/34, for RMR, SRO, 507, black nitride standard, w channel liner:

https://primarymachine.com/glock-o-r-s-defender-slide-trijicon-rmr-sro-ready/

[Archer1440]

Following up on Wright Armory, I got a very professional (and after hours) response from them that confirms they do P30 optics installations, with a complete and thorough price list and timeline.

The cost is as expected, and they want to have the optic in hand, but it is definitely an option.

I can’t imagine choosing anything less than an RMR for this sort of thing.

[David S.]

The PMO cost and complication is the primary reason I left the P30 lineup.

[JDB]

Following up on Wright Armory, I got a very professional (and after hours) response from them that confirms they do P30 optics installations, with a complete and thorough price list and timeline.

The cost is as expected, and they want to have the optic in hand, but it is definitely an option.

I can’t imagine choosing anything less than an RMR for this sort of thing.

Thanks. What do you mean by anything less than RMR? Reliability/durability?I thought the Deltapoint Pro was GTG at this point. Wider footprint?

I’m maybe a little too attached to the P30 at this point, been shooting it primarily for the last 8 years (before that M&P, Glock, 1911s). It fits my needs and I’m invested in them. I get that it’s a hard way to get into red dots, but looks easier than starting over with a new platform and all the gear.

Thanks again.

[zpelletier]

Edit: RJ beat me to it

[Archer1440]

Thanks. What do you mean by anything less than RMR? Reliability/durability?I thought the Deltapoint Pro was GTG at this point. Wider footprint?

I’m maybe a little too attached to the P30 at this point, been shooting it primarily for the last 8 years (before that M&P, Glock, 1911s). It fits my needs and I’m invested in them. I get that it’s a hard way to get into red dots, but looks easier than starting over with a new platform and all the gear.

Thanks again.

This is a personal matter. If you’re going to depend on the pistol, and spend the cost of a high end optic simply to modify the slide to accept a specific optic, then I personally want what I have proven to myself to be the most dependable option. For me, at this time, that is the RMR, though I also carry pistols with SRO’s with zero concerns. Some people find the DPP or other options to meet their needs, and I do not for various specific reasons.

You’ll find plenty of advocates for just about everything out there. Some have done the work to vet their choices and some have not.

By the way, to your point concerning staying with a platform you are attached to, I get that. But with training comes certain degree of flexibility- I have no problem switching between 1911 - P7 - P226/229 - P320 - VP9 - P30 or irons/dot and back as needed or wanted, at a reasonable level of competence on demand, but I put a lot of time into each of those at one time or another.

(Heinlein’s dictum on specialization and insects comes to mind.)

[awp_101]

I haven’t dug around yet, but are there any quality, aftermarket optic ready Gen 5 17/19/34 slides out there or is it MOS only for now?

[JDB]

This is a personal matter. If you’re going to depend on the pistol, and spend the cost of a high end optic simply to modify the slide to accept a specific optic, then I personally want what I have proven to myself to be the most dependable option. For me, at this time, that is the RMR, though I also carry pistols with SRO’s with zero concerns. Some people find the DPP or other options to meet their needs, and I do not for various specific reasons.

You’ll find plenty of advocates for just about everything out there. Some have done the work to vet their choices and some have not.

By the way, to your point concerning staying with a platform you are attached to, I get that. But with training comes certain degree of flexibility- I have no problem switching between 1911 - P7 - P226/229 - P320 - VP9 - P30 or irons/dot and back as needed or wanted, at a reasonable level of competence on demand, but I put a lot of time into each of those at one time or another.

(Heinlein’s dictum on specialization and insects comes to mind.)


I'm well aware of the reliability problems of the Deltapoint in the past, been following GJMs experience with it. But, it appears that's finally resolved. Maybe the RMR is still a better bet

I don't shoot the P30 the best, its simply the best for my needs (short guy, appendix carry, just about the right size, totally bomber gun, hammer) at this time. I don't do a ton of USPSA, but 10 years ago had no problem making master class in IDPA using glocks and M&Ps. I shoot a beretta 92 at least as well as a P30. I get to play with plenty of other guns.
I like the P30 for other reasons, trigger shortcomings aside.

If I was starting over again, I'd might go for a CZ P-07. Or maybe a M&P 2.0 with TS. Having no plans to pursue GM in USPSA, a P30 works quite well.

[David S.]

I'm well aware of the reliability problems of the Deltapoint in the past, been following GJMs experience with it. But, it appears that's finally resolved. Maybe the RMR is still a better bet

What do you find attractive about the DPP compared to other options?

[Tokarev]

I'll add Boogeyman Customs to the list for vendors offering optics cuts. Unfortunately they only cut Glock as far as I know.

Fire 4 Effect does nice work also.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[JDB]

What do you find attractive about the DPP compared to other options?


Larger window, not having to remove to change battery, better tint? (nor sure about that last one)

And I can get a Deltapoint Pro substantially cheaper.

Not sure what the difference in concealment between the Deltapoint and RMR will mean for me. Mostly I'd probably stick with carrying irons for now, but am at a point in my development as a shooter that I should get into optics. Plus at 46, it's probably inevitable I end up with a RDS anyway.


Maybe an RMR is the better bet with the P30. That seems to be the one that more folks will actually mill for, and sounds like the P30 is complicated enough to make work as is.

[zpelletier]

Looks like their optics ready slides are available to order, $249.99 for G17/19/34, for RMR, SRO, 507, black nitride standard, w channel liner:

https://primarymachine.com/glock-o-r-s-defender-slide-trijicon-rmr-sro-ready/

Well I saw on another forum that they have no plans currently of doing the same slides for CZ P10, which is hugely disappointing. I had figured that since they have so many other aftermarket parts for the P10 that they would be doing this as well.

[David S.]

Larger window, not having to remove to change battery, better tint? (nor sure about that last one)

And I can get a Deltapoint Pro substantially cheaper.

Not sure what the difference in concealment between the Deltapoint and RMR will mean for me. Mostly I'd probably stick with carrying irons for now, but am at a point in my development as a shooter that I should get into optics. Plus at 46, it's probably inevitable I end up with a RDS anyway.

Maybe an RMR is the better bet with the P30. That seems to be the one that more folks will actually mill for, and sounds like the P30 is complicated enough to make work as is.

Makes sense.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'll give some friendly pushback:

I suspect the combined height of a shallow cut, adapter plate and the DPP's relatively tall base are going to make that optic sit super high. While I might accept that on a gamer gun, I personally wouldn't want it on a gun I intended to carry concealed.

I also suspect the DPP's footprint is the least future-proof. I wouldn't want to be stuck with an already dated DPP cut forever.

Given that you're not into gaming, I wouldn't be concerned about having the biggest window. It might be a slightly longer learning curve, but better for concealment.

If you don't feel the urgent need to get into RDS, then you may want to hold out until the the technology race slows down.

[dontshakepandas]

Larger window, not having to remove to change battery, better tint? (nor sure about that last one)

And I can get a Deltapoint Pro substantially cheaper.

Not sure what the difference in concealment between the Deltapoint and RMR will mean for me. Mostly I'd probably stick with carrying irons for now, but am at a point in my development as a shooter that I should get into optics. Plus at 46, it's probably inevitable I end up with a RDS anyway.


Maybe an RMR is the better bet with the P30. That seems to be the one that more folks will actually mill for, and sounds like the P30 is complicated enough to make work as is.

I would suggest trying the 507c with the ACSS Vulcan reticle to start off with. I think that reticle is really cool and would be extremely helpful for someone just getting into the dot game and comes in a bit cheaper than an RMR.

https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-hs507c-v2-acss-pistol-red-dot-sight-acss-reticle

Aaron Cowan did a review on it a few weeks ago on Youtube if you want some more info.

It uses the same cut as an RMR, so if you got past the learning stage and felt like it wasn't rugged enough you could swap it for an RMR without having to change anything on your slide.

[JDB]

Makes sense.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'll give some friendly pushback:

I suspect the combined height of a shallow cut, adapter plate and the DPP's relatively tall base are going to make that optic sit super high. While I might accept that on a gamer gun, I personally wouldn't want it on a gun I intended to carry concealed.

I also suspect the DPP's footprint is the least future-proof. I wouldn't want to be stuck with an already dated DPP cut forever.

Given that you're not into gaming, I wouldn't be concerned about having the biggest window. It might be a slightly longer learning curve, but better for concealment.

If you don't feel the urgent need to get into RDS, then you may want to hold out until the the technology race slows down.


No, thanks that's all useful info. Best spend some more time on an RMR I guess.
Maybe I'll just mill one of my G19s sitting around. My hunch is though once I go dot, I'll lose interest in irons and start to ignore my beloved P30s.

If I'm not mistaken, aren't the new Sig M17 and M18 cut specifically for Deltapoint Pros?

[D-der]

Well I saw on another forum that they have no plans currently of doing the same slides for CZ P10, which is hugely disappointing. I had figured that since they have so many other aftermarket parts for the P10 that they would be doing this as well.

Their P10C slides listed start at $419,
Considerably more than it cost me when they milled my P10.
I'd expect, whatever PM does will be top shelf.

[mmc45414]

And I can get a Deltapoint Pro substantially cheaper.
I am also sticking my toe in the water, and based on other's recommendations tried a Swampfox Liberty. It is a RMR footprint and bought when they ran them on sale once for $175. I have been pleased so far. It also does not require removing the sight to swap the battery.


I also suspect the DPP's footprint is the least future-proof.
Didn't they even change their own footprint with the Deltapoint to Pro transition? Don't get me wrong, I like Leupold a great deal, and have many of their scopes, but it seems like they are still finding their way on electronic stuff. I would buy a DPP, but I would be cautious about direct milling an H&K pistol for one.


Maybe I'll just mill one of my G19s sitting around.
As I mentioned, I am also new to the dot. Many have more trouble transitioning than I have, I think it helped by transitioning to the exact same pistol format I have been shooting every week for the last two years. YMMV.


My hunch is though once I go dot, I'll lose interest in irons
In my very limited experience (probably about 500-700 rounds) the dot is a big advantage but I have been able to toggle back and forth. I have also been dabbling in three gun, and the pistol optic bumps you up to shoot against those magazine fed shotguns. Not like I need to worry about winning and losing at this point, but I have been using the pistol with FO sights after shooting the dot for three weekends. So far not any big problem bouncing back and forth. And again, YMMV :cool:

[zpelletier]

Their P10C slides listed start at $419,
Considerably more than it cost me when they milled my P10.
I'd expect, whatever PM does will be top shelf.

I would also expect whatever they do to be top notch. But as you pointed out, $419 is significantly more than the cost of having your slide milled. I would’ve hoped that since they came out with an option for Glock that is more cost effective, they would’ve done the same for CZ considering their presence in the P10 community.

[RJ]

My G48 slide and 507k are en route now to PM, so I guess I got in under the wire.



Anybody got their milled slide back from PM lately, and if so, how long did it take? I admit mine's only been there a week, confirmed in house on Apr 1st. So it's no where near their current lead time (3-4 weeks) but I'm just getting antsy.

And I need to shoot something. :)

[RJ]

Anybody got their milled slide back from PM lately, and if so, how long did it take? I admit mine's only been there a week, confirmed in house on Apr 1st. So it's no where near their current lead time (3-4 weeks) but I'm just getting antsy.

And I need to shoot something. :)

Got a shipping notice from PM today, three weeks after it arrived there (quoted on the site was 3-4 weeks, so right in the ball park.) Looking forward to it's arrival and going to the range.

[Moylan]

I'm a little jealous. Today is 6 weeks for my slide at Jagerwerks. Their estimate was 4-8, so still well within, but I'm getting antsy.

[RJ]

Got a shipping notice from PM today, three weeks after it arrived there (quoted on the site was 3-4 weeks, so right in the ball park.) Looking forward to it's arrival and going to the range.

I picked up my package from PM yesterday.

Super happy with the work, it's like it was done at Glock. I am ok with the "graphite black" Cerakote, the nDLC (?) finish is still under it I presume. And it's a Glock carry gun, I am not too fussed if it wears some from use. The slide finish is now a bit less "slickery" than it was before; I think this is an improvement over the original coat, to be honest.

I opted to have the rear sight dovetail removed; dot transition is a one way street for me and I'm not going back. I really like how the 507k has these little vestigial "bumps" molded into the sight body you can kinda sorta use for a rear sight notch. I looked in my baggie o' Glock front sights and chose a blacked out steel to put on the front for a bit. It's 0.165" or there abouts. You can just make out the tip of it at the lower end of the sight window. I'll see how/if it lines up in reversionary mode shooting without the dot at the first range visit. (We are moving house in the next two weeks so I am not sure when I'm going to get a chance to shoot it.)

Overall a fantastic experience with Primary Machine. I am glad I got this in under the wire; at $160 the transition to an optic was a manageable cost.

70743

G48 with 507k next to my G34+507c on a FCD plate:

70744

[David S.]

Welcome to the dot life.

[Kanye Wyoming]

Good news, Primary Machine is back in the optic milling game. Here is email I just received:

78186

[GJM]

The Romeo 3 Max/XL is now an option that they didn't previously offer. Looks like the Acro is not an option.

[Oldherkpilot]

Good news, Primary Machine is back in the optic milling game. Here is email I just received:

78186

Do you reckon this will include P30 slides again?

[Kanye Wyoming]

Do you reckon this will include P30 slides again?
Did they ever? I was under the impression that L&M (until recently), Wright Armory and Ashbury Precision were pretty much the only games in town for P30s.

[GJM]

Do you reckon this will include P30 slides again?

Primary milled several VP9 slides for me, but to my knowledge never worked on the HK hammer pistols.

[Up1911Fan]

Was hoping to see P365's as an option.

[Oldherkpilot]

Do you reckon this will include P30 slides again?

Apologies for the stupid question. I got excited and misread Primary Machine as L&M.