Trigger weight for “fighting revolver?”

[JCN]

Hello, I would love some opinions on where people personally like their revolver trigger weight for carry.

And also if pocket versus holster carry affect that decision making for you?

My LCR trigger is heavy but still lighter than a J frame trigger. I was thinking of doing the 9# apex for the SW rather than the 6# mcarbo. For semi-autos I personally usually hover around a 4.5-5.5# for carry gun trigger weight, but have 8# DA pulls on some guns.

Thanks in advance!

Clusterfrack
jlw
jetfire
Dagga Boy

[jlw]

Actual preference of weight is going to be subjective, but what is imperative is reliable ignition.

I recently obtained 650 rounds of Winchester 130gr jacked .38sp ammo. Neither of my two most oft used revolvers will reliably ignite it, and I lost a shoot off due to a light strike in my 586 using S&B ammo as it was all that was available. I've have no issue with Freedom Munitions or Federal ammo.

I've only fired one cylinder full of ammo through an LCR and am unable to offer any information regarding that option.

[03RN]

Most of my k frames are 10/5 lbs but my m66-8 is 8/4 lbs. Ive only smoothed the insides. Ive never had an issue with light strikes, except for trying wolf magnum srp.

I dont mind heavier triggers as long as there no weird hitches.

[Stephanie B]

Mas may have an opinion on this. My recollection is that reducing the weight of a trigger below that of factory specs in a self-defense revolver is not a great idea.

[Trooper224]

Weight doesn't matter nearly as much as smoothness of pull. Most of my S&W revolvers have glassy factory triggers around 10-12 pounds, on average. This doesn't effect performance. A couple of my Colts are lighter, but the trigger stacks like a bitch and that's a bigger impediment to good DA shooting than pull weight.

[Half Moon]

For what it's worth, In DA, I generally find a smooth and consistent trigger pull is more important than a light weight. If you haven't already I'd work on smoothness either by extensive dry fire or via gunsmith or personal work on the action if you have the skills to not mess it up. Our pre-15 combat masterpiece for instance is a heavier pull than many of our other revolvers but is dead on the smoothest and runs well because of it. Never a concern whether it will pop primers reliably on any given ammunition like there might be with a lightened trigger.

ETA: typing at the same time as Trooper224 apparently :-)

[Totem Polar]

At this point, I prefer DAO, smooth, and as light as possible with complete reliability. In 2021, there’s no reason to be putting up with heavy triggers when several factory guns are coming off the shelf with pull weights under 10lbs.

I like 8.5-10.5lbs, myself. I had a C&S tuned model 10 that was in the 7lb range, but it wouldn’t light the stiffer stuff (eg. Magtech) off. 8.5 and any ammo is a pretty good benchmark goal.

I’m amazed at some of the pull weights that Caleb gets on his revolvers. Sub-7 is a bridge to far for me, personally, but it’s cool to see him work his magic.

[Clusterfrack]

Good questions. I haven't measured the trigger weight on my LCR 9, but it's ok for what it is. I would rather err on the side of reliability and keep the gun stock. As well, given the LCR's purpose, I think a heavier trigger is not a bad thing. Pocket carry, drawing and firing through a garment, gun grappling...

Similarly, all of my Glocks have stock triggers, and I won't be modifying pull weight on any of them.

My P-07s have CGW parts to yield a DA pull around 7 to 8 lbs, and I have shot enough 1000's of rounds through them to be confident.


Hello, I would love some opinions on where people personally like their revolver trigger weight for carry.

And also if pocket versus holster carry affect that decision making for you?

My LCR trigger is heavy but still lighter than a J frame trigger. I was thinking of doing the 9# apex for the SW rather than the 6# mcarbo. For semi-autos I personally usually hover around a 4.5-5.5# for carry gun trigger weight, but have 8# DA pulls on some guns.

Thanks in advance!

Clusterfrack
jlw
jetfire
Dagga Boy

[BN]

Gotta be a smooth even pull. It doesn't have to be super light.

I had Randy Lee do a competition only 625. Double Action was 4.5# I think. That was too light for me. I had him do a Model 10 that I shot a lot in IDPA. It was around 6#. About 8# to 10# is the best range for me.

I don't do anything to J-Frames.

[OlongJohnson]

Mas may have an opinion on this. My recollection is that reducing the weight of a trigger below that of factory specs in a self-defense revolver is not a great idea.

I know that's been said, but it's overly simplistic. If you eliminate roughness, friction will be reduced, and therefore the trigger press will be lightened, even with unmolested factory springs. This is in fact the state of my GPMC. I think it's pretty reasonable for a defensive trigger, but I have no doubt that if 10 GPMCs were sampled at random, new out of the box, it's likely that 10 of them would measure with heavier trigger presses.

It also brings up the question of what "factory specs" are. Take Beretta 92s. There are US military armorer's manuals available online that provide trigger press weight specs. But Erik has explained previously that Beretta has no internal factory trigger press weight spec. The spec is functionally-based: it must indent a NATO-spec primer to a minimum depth.

I could go further, but I'll kind of wave my hands in that direction by saying a P320 without a mechanical external safety is widely regarded as "safe enough," including by the manufacturer and many agencies that have signed up to put tens of thousands of them in the holsters of our public servants.

The "not lighter than factory" standard will get a DA press that has a much longer travel, requiring more force to start moving and A LOT more force to release the hammer to be deemed "not safe." I couldn't defend that situation on the basis of any fundamental engineering principle.

[03RN]

I know that's been said, but it's overly simplistic. If you eliminate roughness, friction will be reduced, and therefore the trigger press will be lightened, even with unmolested factory springs. This is in fact the state of my GPMC. I think it's pretty reasonable for a defensive trigger, but I have no doubt that if 10 GPMCs were sampled at random, new out of the box, it's likely that 10 of them would measure with heavier trigger presses.

It also brings up the question of what "factory specs" are. Take Beretta 92s. There are US military armorer's manuals available online that provide trigger press weight specs. But Erik has explained previously that Beretta has no internal factory trigger press weight spec. The spec is functionally-based: it must indent a NATO-spec primer to a minimum depth.

I could go further, but I'll kind of wave my hands in that direction by saying a P320 without a mechanical external safety is widely regarded as "safe enough," including by the manufacturer and many agencies that have signed up to put tens of thousands of them in the holsters of our public servants.

The "not lighter than factory" standard will get a DA press that has a much longer travel, requiring more force to start moving and A LOT more force to release the hammer to be deemed "not safe." I couldn't defend that situation on the basis of any fundamental engineering principle.

Plus, iirc, Mas has cited a case where someone cocks their gun, shoots, then flees the scene.

I would venture to guess if he stayed put they wouldn't have looked for extra charges on what might of been a good shoot.

[OlongJohnson]

Plus, iirc, Mas has cited a case where someone cocks their gun, shoots, then flees the scene.

I would venture to guess if he stayed put they wouldn't have looked for extra charges on what might of been a good shoot.

I'm not familiar with that one. However, there are two cases that are often brought up where the case became about "negligence" due to allegedly or actually pre-cocking a revolver. In both the cases I'm thinking of, it got started down that path when the person who shot initially claimed he did not intend to shoot, then later changed to claiming having shot in self-defense. That element is often left out of the discussion of those two cases.

[jlw]

I seem to recall a Miami-area officer being involved in a shooting. The state attorney, Janet Reno, claimed that the revolver had been cocked to SA and that the shot was fired in negligence rather than as an intention act (a legal strategy in a criminal case that I do not understand). Afterward, the PD in question converted all of their revolvers to DAO.

Please forgive me, unmerciful interweb, if I am incorrect.

[jtcarm]

Most of my k frames are 10/5 lbs but my m66-8 is 8/4 lbs. Ive only smoothed the insides. Ive never had an issue with light strikes, except for trying wolf magnum srp.

I dont mind heavier triggers as long as there no weird hitches.

That sounds very unbalanced. Normally a Smith DA-to-SA ratio is about 2.8 to 1.

[Jim Watson]

I have not shot one of those super duper 5 lb DA match revolvers, the lightest I have is my Colt Custom Shop "Tedford" Python at 7 lbs and it is a Federal primer only gun. Shooting more revolvers in the Covid/BLM/Antifa era, I have cinched down some strain screws and replaced Wolff with Smith mainsprings for reliability even in "range guns." Shooting a good smooth action seems no more difficult.

One modification I did make was an overtravel stop. A revolver without trigger stop was less accurate than one with, even though it has the lighter weight of pull. So I put one in, the rod-in-rebound spring that Smith used to use in N frames. Kind of tedious to get the length of the rod right, but it required no drilling and tapping for a screw in or behind the trigger. The gun no longer has that backlash twitch of the barrel and accuracy is improved.

My CCW revolvers are set to reliably fire reloads with CCI primers and are consequently trouble free with domestic name brand factory loads. My old M38 requires a stock mainspring, my M640, last of the stainless .38s, is good with a one step lighter spring set. My M12 is reliable the way FLG set it for the previous owner but I don't know the details, it is fine like it is.

[Rex G]

I like smooth. Light is not necessary, or, desirable. I have not installed lighter main springs in anything that did not already them when I bought the guns. My first GP100 does have a lighter trigger return spring, but, I do not need it, and wish I had just left the factory spring in place.

I have bought customized guns, with lighter springs, and they have reliably ignited primers, so, I have left those particular springs alone.

[45dotACP]

My stock GP100 was easy enough to shoot, to the point where I could shoot a higher scoring B8 with it in DA than I could with a G17. That was and still is good enough for me.

It's a smooth and even trigger press and that is probably why it was easier for me to shoot. My trigger pull gauge only goes to 8lbs but it is more than that. Single action is...unimportant because I use it so rarely.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[revchuck38]

My recently-bought 10-7 has the original 40-year-old factory springs in it but is smooth, so I see no reason to swap them out and have unused factory S&W springs if I do.

I have three S&W revolvers that have been through the Performance Center for their Combat Revolver package. It could be argued that they are factory-spec. I wonder if that would fly in court?

[Mas]

Stephanie is correct. It's why so many departments forbid trigger work on duty weapons. The "hair trigger" thing feeds into false allegations of manslaughter or wrongful death. It's easier to convince a jury that a good person was negligent than that they were evil. Most people have heard the phrase "justifiable homicide," but none of us ever hear "justifiable accident."

I also agree with Trooper 224: smoothness is FAR more important than weight.

FWIW, I've never heard an allegation that a double action trigger stroke of any weight constituted a "hair trigger conducive to unintended discharge." In the revolver days it was an epidemic allegation, always involving cocked guns, both with actual cocked gun tragedies and false allegations of same in political prosecutions such as the one Lee Weems mentioned here, Florida v. (Miami Police Officer) Luis Alvarez.. It's why so many of us still recommend DAO function for any defensive revolver these days, and why not so long ago so many agencies adopted DAO hammer-fired Berettas, SIGs, and HKs.

[Clusterfrack]

FWIW, I've never heard an allegation that a double action trigger stroke of any weight constituted a "hair trigger conducive to unintended discharge."

Thanks Mas. As a TDA user, I find this very helpful, and encouraging.

[jetfire]

Hello, I would love some opinions on where people personally like their revolver trigger weight for carry.

And also if pocket versus holster carry affect that decision making for you?

My LCR trigger is heavy but still lighter than a J frame trigger. I was thinking of doing the 9# apex for the SW rather than the 6# mcarbo. For semi-autos I personally usually hover around a 4.5-5.5# for carry gun trigger weight, but have 8# DA pulls on some guns.

Thanks in advance!

Clusterfrack
jlw
jetfire
Dagga Boy

So yeah, I'll concur with everyone else that the weight of the pull is less important to me than how smooth it rolls through the end. What I try to eliminate with S&W guns is any stacking near the end of the trigger pull, the side effect of that is that I end up with 6-7lb triggers in medium frame revolvers. While those triggers are undeniably lovely, I also have no issues recommending someone an LCR trigger, which until I shot the Python was the best factory DA trigger on the market, and is from the factory right around 9-10lbs. That's why when I build a wheelgun the goal isn't weight, but rather smoothness. Reliable ignition is key as well, because it doesn't matter if my trigger is 4.5 lbs if it won't crack any primers.

[BillSWPA]

To add a different perspective, I have worked with many students with hand or wrist issues who have had difficulty with DA trigger pulls. 9 lb. seems to be the point when many new shooters have difficulty, and watching new shooters struggle with a NY1 trigger setup on a Glock motivated me to switch to a NY1 with a 3.5 lb. connector for a 7 lb. pull. A shooter with weak or compromised hands should not have a trigger requiring them to use two index fingers simultaneously, as I have seen one female shooter do with her S&W 686.

Given all of the functions performed by a DA revolver trigger, I doubt it is possible to get it too light while also preserving reliable functioning.

I have used some very light but otherwise poor DA semiauto triggers, so I agree that smoothness is critical.

[Doc_Glock]

Good questions. I haven't measured the trigger weight on my LCR 9

Mine is about 8#2oz and it feels great.

[JHC]

I shoot wheelies as God made them. I’ve gotten nothing but tears for turning them over to recommended smiths to tune. Never again.

[OlongJohnson]

God doesn't work at S&W or Ruger. Are you talking Manurhin or Korth?

[03RN]

God doesn't work at S&W or Ruger. Are you talking Manurhin or Korth?

Hmmm
69564
69566
69567

[Clusterfrack]

Mine is about 8#2oz and it feels great.

Mine is closer to 9#. But I could not feel the difference in weight or smoothness between the LCR and a ProGrade P-07. I hadn’t appreciated how good the LCR is out of the box until now.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210330/2d7ee6fff03070bd962717a89675f932.jpg

[JCN]

Clusterfrack I did the same thing comparing my LCR9 with my Korth Sky Hawk (9mm) and the LCRs trigger is pretty darn good.

69573

[jtcarm]

Given all of the functions performed by a DA revolver trigger, I doubt it is possible to get it too light while also preserving reliable functioning.


That pretty well sums it up.

[jetfire]

That pretty well sums it up.

I mean also define "too light"

[Cecil Burch]

I will add something to the discussion that I have not seen brought up.

I have two preferred non-snub revolvers I will EDC - a S&W M66, and a Manurhin MR88. The 66 is DAO and has a trigger pull of just over 8 pounds. The MR88 has a DA pull of close to 11 pounds. Both pulls are super smooth (the Smith may have bit of an edge, but it is not by much). What I have noticed is that there is not a lot of difference in my performance with either one on individual drills or short courses of fire. I tend to shoot both of them pretty much identically especially after putting on Mershon grips on the Smith.

Where I did see a difference was in extended firing. An extended session, or a longer course of fire like the old FBI DA course, the slightly heavier pull of the Manurhin started to tell on my finger. Was it bad? No, but there did start to be something there, and I have noticed that my later shots with that gun were not quite as good as the first 10-20, or the equivalent number out of the 66.

I don't know that is enough reason to favor one weight over the other, but it may be something to consider.

YMMV

[Rex G]

I will add something to the discussion that I have not seen brought up.

I have two preferred non-snub revolvers I will EDC - a S&W M66, and a Manurhin MR88. The 66 is DAO and has a trigger pull of just over 8 pounds. The MR88 has a DA pull of close to 11 pounds. Both pulls are super smooth (the Smith may have bit of an edge, but it is not by much). What I have noticed is that there is not a lot of difference in my performance with either one on individual drills or short courses of fire. I tend to shoot both of them pretty much identically especially after putting on Mershon grips on the Smith.

Where I did see a difference was in extended firing. An extended session, or a longer course of fire like the old FBI DA course, the slightly heavier pull of the Manurhin started to tell on my finger. Was it bad? No, but there did start to be something there, and I have noticed that my later shots with that gun were not quite as good as the first 10-20, or the equivalent number out of the 66.

I don't know that is enough reason to favor one weight over the other, but it may be something to consider.

YMMV

Well-said. Cumulative fatigue is real.

[jlw]

I just heard a prosecutor argue that a trigger pull of over seven pounds as being “a lot” and thus the defendant couldn’t claim negligence.

The murder weapon was a Sccy.

[Totem Polar]

Cecil Burch, absolutely. There is a big difference between a gun that can be shot well, and a gun that can be shot well a lot in a row.

If the 1911 trigger wasn’t a thing, the 1911 would occupy the same niche as, say Colt SAAs. JMO.

[Dave T]

Hmmm
69564


O3, that first picture made my heart flutter. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

[jtcarm]

I mean also define "too light"

Too light is relative.

Really the topic should be mainspring strength since that’s what drives ignition. While DA pull weight is mostly overcoming the main spring, your trigger finger is also working against other forces like friction, hammer & cylinder weight, rebound spring, cylinder stop, etc. DA pull weight can be reduced without compromising main spring strength.

[AzShooter]

No less than 7 pounds double action on a carry Smith & Wesson. I go lower for competition guns but never for carry.

I also use a 13 rebound spring in my carry guns and 11 in my competition guns.

[BN]

I mean also define "too light"

My Randy Lee 625 at 4.5# was mushy. I couldn't get a good feel with it. In my opinion it was too light for me.

[jetfire]

My Randy Lee 625 at 4.5# was mushy. I couldn't get a good feel with it. In my opinion it was too light for me.

I think 4.5 might actually be too light - I need some kind of resistance from a wheelgun trigger, and I feel like that the length of travel with that light a weight would feel weird

[AzShooter]

I think 4.5 might actually be too light - I need some kind of resistance from a wheelgun trigger, and I feel like that the length of travel with that light a weight would feel weird

The answer is to put a heavier rebound spring in the gun. You will still have a wonderful double action trigger but the return will be stronger and won't feel too light. I use a 11 pound rebound spring but a 13 - 14 will give a great DA with better reset abillity.

[willie]

I leave stock springs in my revolvers. Polishing internal parts reduces friction. Smooth is important to me. I will not tolerate light strikes due to reduced power springs.