Cherry Picking a P226

[John Hearne]

Suppose you could pick a 9mm P226 from the armory of an agency that had been purchasing them since the early 90's. I'm assuming that you'd want a West German gun. Any guess as to which serial number ranges would be "best" for long term durability?

[VolGrad]

Prob not THE answer but I'd say buy as many as they will allow and sort them out on the bench and on the range. The ones you don't keep for yourself would make great Christmas presents.

[ToddG]

I would not want a stamped slide gun. A pre-05 stainless slide P226 is probably ideal.

[SecondsCount]

I would not want a stamped slide gun....
Can you provide some more detail on this?

[ToddG]

The stamped slide guns need more maintenance. They need the roll slide pins replaced regularly to avoid frame cracking. For some people it wouldn't make a difference but for someone like John and particularly when he mentions long term durability it wouldn't be my choice.

Furthermore, at various times SIG has discontinued sale of stamped slide parts including the pins and the breech block.

[SecondsCount]

The stamped slide guns need more maintenance. They need the roll slide pins replaced regularly to avoid frame cracking. For some people it wouldn't make a difference but for someone like John and particularly when he mentions long term durability it wouldn't be my choice.

Furthermore, at various times SIG has discontinued sale of stamped slide parts including the pins and the breech block.

Good to know. I just happen to have some spares in stock. :cool:

[Odin Bravo One]

The stamped slide guns need more maintenance. They need the roll slide pins replaced regularly to avoid frame cracking..

Yup..................who knew?

[YVK]

Not that I am planning to get one, but just for a general knowledge fund: how's stamped slide look vs non-stamped (milled?)?

[fuse]

The old will have a breech block.

[Suvorov]

Not that I am planning to get one, but just for a general knowledge fund: how's stamped slide look vs non-stamped (milled?)?

Stamped guns will have a roll pin located on the side of the slide, little more than mid height, above the decoker lever. They will also (to my knowledge) all have internal extractors.

Machined slides will have a solid pin in the location where the roll pin was and will have external extractors.


I'm certain that like Berettas, there will be some minor variations depending on when and where made (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SIG_SAUER_P229R_DAK_%282011%29.jpg). :o So the best way to tell is to remove the slide and see if the breech is part of the slide or a separate piece.

[NEPAKevin]

The new P226s have a spiral roll pin instead of the solid firing pin positioning pin. FWIW, the guns with solid pins if dry fired a lot can have problems with galling(sp?) on the positioning pin and/or the firing pin, which happened to one of my P226s.

[Mjolnir]

John, I'd recommend the Mk25. The fire control group is not Indo-MIM parts from India...

[jslaker]

Not that I am planning to get one, but just for a general knowledge fund: how's stamped slide look vs non-stamped (milled?)?

In addition to the separate breach block, the top of the slide on a stamped gun will also have a flat surface running from the front sight that gradually increases in width up to the locking lug. On milled guns, there's a constant, rounded radius at the front of the slide.

[NEPAKevin]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QDW2ReXDKx0/UAWy0-jFseI/AAAAAAAAAGo/yZlsEHqxBDU/s512/100_0172.JPG

Top: Forged Stainless Slide

Bottom: Stamped Slide

[Serpico1985]

John, I'd recommend the Mk25. The fire control group is not Indo-MIM parts from India...

Do you have a refernce for this comment? I'm not calling BS just interested in the source. Higher quality internals would certainly be a plus vs a regular current production 226.

Thanks for any info.

[Joe Mamma]

Suppose you could pick a 9mm P226 from the armory of an agency that had been purchasing them since the early 90's. I'm assuming that you'd want a West German gun. Any guess as to which serial number ranges would be "best" for long term durability?

I'd suggest a stamped (2 piece) slide gun or a milled slide gun with a spiral roll pin. I'd avoid the milled slide guns with solid pins.

It may be confusing because it's basically is the opposite of what ToddG recommends, and he knows these guns well.

But, my opinion is that the 2 piece slide guns are excellent as far as real world durability. If the locking block loosens up (which can happen after a lot of shooting), simply replace the roll pins in the slide with new ones.

I'd avoid the solid pin guns (which only came with milled slides) because simple dry firing of the gun can (without decent snap caps) can damage/break the pin and cause big headaches and problems. This is why Sig no longer makes these with solid pins.

The spiral pin guns are recent manufacture, and recently, Sig quality has been inconsistent. But if you are picking one from the armory of an agency, I assume you can pick one that has been fired a little and confirmed for reliability. If you were buying a gun new, I probably would not feel the same way about a spiral pin gun.

Also, with both the spiral pin guns and the 2 piece slide guns, you can easily detail strip the slide if you want to or need to. But a lot of people have to send the solid pin guns back to the factory to have the slide pins removed.

All of this is simply my opinion.

Joe Mamma

[NEPAKevin]

Also, with both the spiral pin guns and the 2 piece slide guns, you can easily detail strip the slide if you want to or need to. But a lot of people have to send the solid pin guns back to the factory to have the slide pins removed.


The two piece cup pin punch set takes the hassle out of R&Ring the solid pin. About the only thing that makes the solid pin more complicated than the roll pins is that they are directional. That said, I like the feel of the stamped slide P226s as they seem less top heavy and better balanced than the 9mm stamped slide versions.

[Joe Mamma]

About the only thing that makes the solid pin more complicated than the roll pins is that they are directional.

I will disagree with you slightly, and I should clarify my comments above. One problem with the solid pin guns is that *someone else* who has handled the gun may have dry fired it a lot, and damaged the solid pin. Unfortunately, the damage is often not visible, but it will cause problems if you try to remove it.

Joe Mamma

[ToddG]

I would submit that if you are worried a previous owner/user may have dry fired excessively without taking proper precautions (solid slide), you should be even more cautious about whether the gun was fired without regular replacement of the slide pins (stamped slide). It's much easier to replace some worn internal parts than a cracked frame.

[JDM]

What are the proper precautions for dry firing a slide with solid pins? Snap caps?

[ToddG]

Or just inspect the pin, firing pin block, and firing pin regularly.

[NEPAKevin]

What are the proper precautions for dry firing a slide with solid pins? Snap caps?

As I understand the issue, when you dry fire, the firing pin is slamming against the firing pin positioning pin. I use an inert barrel with a 3M rubber table protector fitted to the "chamber" to simulate a snap cap.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wxqiy47n9MI/UAlvva5S7sI/AAAAAAAAAG4/enfYWQtfyj8/s512/100_0729.JPG

[taadski]

I don't have much experience with the new spiral pins but there doesn't seem to be much of a durability difference between the roll pin and solid FPPPs. They both break with regularity if extensive (unprotected) dry practice is being done. It's a regularly inspected item on our agency guns because of the frequency they break and again, it's across the board between stamped and milled slide units. The plus side is I've never witnessed a broken pin cause a malfunction (and I've seen a lot of broken ones); usually it gets picked up when one side of the pin begins walking its way out. Obviously, YMMV though. We issue snap caps to help mitigate it as much as possible.

I've personally taken to using a clipped piece of rubber hose between the hammer and the back of the firing pin. I dry fire A LOT and it seems to mitigate the issue well.


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/photo-5.jpg

[John Hearne]

The plus side is I've never witnessed a broken pin cause a malfunction (and I've seen a lot of broken ones); usually it gets picked up when one side of the pin begins walking its way out.

I had a P228 with a broken FPPP that would fail to fire about 1/2 the time. FWIW, I broke a solid FPPP in my P220. Since then I've used snap caps. I suspect that the best thing is an o-ring between the hammer and firing pin so that the pin doesn't even move so there's no need to cushion it.

Thanks for all of the input. I want to pickup a P226 Enhanced Elite but don't have the cash right now. I carry a personally owned weapon so I could request a 9mm P226 to shoot the snot out of without any cost to me. I don't think we have any 9mm P226's (40's yes) with the stailness slide but I'm going to ask. I suspect we have a bunch of West German P226's and if I swap the FPPP every 5,000 rounds (dry or live) I'll be fine.

[archangel]

As someone who owns an old, stamped slide 226 which has never had the roll pins replaced - Where do the frame cracks develop, so I know where to look?

[JDM]

I don't have much experience with the new spiral pins but there doesn't seem to be much of a durability difference between the roll pin and solid FPPPs. They both break with regularity if extensive (unprotected) dry practice is being done. It's a regularly inspected item on our agency guns because of the frequency they break and again, it's across the board between stamped and milled slide units. The plus side is I've never witnessed a broken pin cause a malfunction (and I've seen a lot of broken ones); usually it gets picked up when one side of the pin begins walking its way out. Obviously, YMMV though. We issue snap caps to help mitigate it as much as possible.

I've personally taken to using a clipped piece of rubber hose between the hammer and the back of the firing pin. I dry fire A LOT and it seems to mitigate the issue well.


http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/photo-5.jpg

Been meaning to thank you for this tip. What a good idea.

[ToddG]

As someone who owns an old, stamped slide 226 which has never had the roll pins replaced - Where do the frame cracks develop, so I know where to look?

Most often along the frame rails. If you put some finger pressure on the end (muzzle end) of each rail and wiggle it, you should be able to see if any cracks have formed.