I got scammed! Help with Zelle

[Poconnor]

Long story story I got scammed trying to buy a puppy . So far it looks like my biggest mistake was using Zelle. I sent them $200 by Zelle for a deposit. The next day I drove 400 miles to pick the puppy up. When I arrived I learned that the people at the house had no idea what I was talking about. It was a long 400 miles home. There were plenty of red flags but I told myself there are plenty of weird people in the world. Any experience getting money back from Zelle?

[RoyGBiv]

You probably already read this.... but just in case...

https://www.zellepay.com/pay-it-safe/understanding-fraud-and-scams

SCAM If you were knowingly involved in the transaction and you gave the “ok” and authorized a payment to be sent, this is typically defined as a scam. Even if you were tricked or persuaded into authorizing a payment for a good or service someone said they were going to provide, but they didn’t fulfill it, this would be considered a scam. Because you authorized the payment, you may not be able to get your money back. A few types of scams reported involve purchasing tickets (https://www.bbb.org/article/tips/13986-bbb-tip-buying-tickets), buying puppies (https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/spot-puppy-scam/) and other financial scams like cash flips. Get more examples of scams (https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/what-are-some-common-types-of-scams-en-2092/).


Contact Your Financial Institution for Possible Recourse Contact your bank or credit union immediately if you feel you’ve been the victim of fraud or have been scammed. In cases of unauthorized payments, consumers have legal rights and protections under the Electronic Funds Transfer Act (also known as "Reg E”). It’s important to read the user service agreement and the account agreement with your financial institution to understand the terms of any payment service you intend to use.

[Default.mp3]

Pretty sure you're SOL. Zelle is the same as just handing over cash, AFAIK.

[RoyGBiv]

It's a crime.... but with damages of $200 (travel costs likely don't count), your best chance is if your bank likes you enough to refund you and pursue the perp on their own dime.

[Borderland]

Can't help you here but I'm starting to see some strange pass thru transactions on my checking account identified as Google. Zero amounts, but account information none the less. Never seen that before and when I called the bank they couldn't or wouldn't tell me why it was there. I've never had any transactions with Google.

Check your account every day because there is some strange shit going on in the electronic banking world. My guess is it's data mining but have no clue.

[wvincent]

Can't help you here but I'm starting to see some strange pass thru transactions on my checking account identified as Google. Zero amounts, but account information none the less. Never seen that before and when I called the bank they couldn't or wouldn't tell me why it was there. I've never had any transactions with Google.

Check your account every day because there is some strange shit going on in the electronic banking world. My guess is it's data mining but have no clue.

No kidding? I've been seeing the same Google transactions for $0, multiple times.
My bank claimed no knowledge either.

[shootist26]

Long story story I got scammed trying to buy a puppy . So far it looks like my biggest mistake was using Zelle. I sent them $200 by Zelle for a deposit. The next day I drove 400 miles to pick the puppy up. When I arrived I learned that the people at the house had no idea what I was talking about. It was a long 400 miles home. There were plenty of red flags but I told myself there are plenty of weird people in the world. Any experience getting money back from Zelle?

You are SOL
https://www.zellepay.com/user-service-agreement
The first thing Zelle tells you in the user agreement is:

THE SERVICE IS INTENDED TO SEND MONEY TO FRIENDS, FAMILY AND OTHERS YOU TRUST. YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE SERVICE TO SEND MONEY TO RECIPIENTS WITH WHOM YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR OR YOU DO NOT TRUST.

[SD]

No information about this Zelle. Good Breeders will almost always want to do a meet & greet with perspective owners before even talking business. Do not know enough about this situation hopefully you can recover the money. What breed of dog are you considering?

[Borderland]

No information about this Zelle. Good Breeders will almost always want to do a meet & greet with perspective owners before even talking business. Do not know enough about this situation hopefully you can recover the money. What breed of dog are you considering?

This.

I had to fill out a contract 2 months before I could buy a puppy. Then I had to meet the seller so they could decide if they wanted to sell me a puppy. The breeder was well known in the trial community and had lots of references. I paid on delivery.

[LorenzoS]

... I'm starting to see some strange pass thru transactions on my checking account identified as Google. Zero amounts, but account information none the less...

The safest thing to do is open a new account asap. You can leave a small amount in the old account while any automatic payments, checks, etc. clear before fully closing it.

[Borderland]

No kidding? I've been seeing the same Google transactions for $0, multiple times.
My bank claimed no knowledge either.

This may be conspiracy theory BS but I think it may be some deal that my bank made with Google to have access to my debit card information. How else is Google going to get that unless my bank gave it to them? This is all very strange and if I find out they did that I'm taking my money someplace else. I should have done that a long time ago but the auto deposit switch is a damn nightmare. I'm going to call the state AG's office and see if they can tell me what these assholes are up to.

[Borderland]

The safest thing to do is open a new account asap. You can leave a small amount in the old account while any automatic payments, checks, etc. clear before fully closing it.

Just did that last year. I've had to do that about 5 times in the last 10 years. Shit gets old.

[andre3k]

Be glad it was only $200. Take it as a learning experience.

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[Poconnor]

I’m looking for a black and white bull terrier. They wanted me to send them more money. I’m glad I didn’t.

[Nephrology]

No kidding? I've been seeing the same Google transactions for $0, multiple times.
My bank claimed no knowledge either.

For my freelance side work I will occasionally get 1 cent transactions from Gusto, a 3rd party payroll company that dispenses my pay and manages my 1099 and so forth.

That said I also recognize the charges, have a pre existing relationship with them... etc....

Maybe it's a Google subscription? That said I pay for Drive and haven't seen any of that myself....

[VT1032]

I have had two credit cards and a debit card all have weird unauthorized transactions in the last month and a half. It's getting to the point where I think I must have some sort of virus or something on my computer or phone or my wife's phone but I can't figure it out for the life of me. I run quality anti-virus, always use a VPN on any wifi and I've had multiple full scans come back clean. I also have identity monitoring from the opm hack and that hasn't alerted on any of the cards.

The bank and credit card company have refunded the charges in all cases but it's concerning I've had this happen on multiple cards and accounts in such a short span of time.

[Borderland]

I had three Goggle Temporary Hold lines show up two days ago and now they're not on my statement anymore. They just disappeared. Maybe the banks software is letting them get posted in error. We deal with two different banks and this hasn't shown up on any of the statements with the other bank. The woman I talked to about it on the phone probably wasn't authorized to explain it but I have a pretty good idea she knew why it was there. I can tell when people want to end a conversation ASAP.

[Borderland]

I have had two credit cards and a debit card all have weird unauthorized transactions in the last month and a half. It's getting to the point where I think I must have some sort of virus or something on my computer or phone or my wife's phone but I can't figure it out for the life of me. I run quality anti-virus, always use a VPN on any wifi and I've had multiple full scans come back clean. I also have identity monitoring from the opm hack and that hasn't alerted on any of the cards.

The bank and credit card company have refunded the charges in all cases but it's concerning I've had this happen on multiple cards and accounts in such a short span of time.



My opinion is banks don't have any control over hackers doing electronic transfers anymore. They want you to monitor it with alarms and alerts. If you don't catch it then the money is gone. To date I've had 30K hacked from checking accounts. The bank had to replace it but somebody is 30K richer and I doubt they were able to recover it. They probably just write it off as operating costs.

I now operate with two accounts. One has a debit card attached and the other one isn't used for outside transactions. I don't keep a lot of money in my checking account anymore because they get hammered by hackers, at least mine does.

[jh9]

This may be conspiracy theory BS but I think it may be some deal that my bank made with Google to have access to my debit card information. How else is Google going to get that unless my bank gave it to them? This is all very strange and if I find out they did that I'm taking my money someplace else. I should have done that a long time ago but the auto deposit switch is a damn nightmare. I'm going to call the state AG's office and see if they can tell me what these assholes are up to.

You may be right, but not for that reason. Anyone your bank is sharing / selling information with doesn't need to post $0 transactions. You have to check your banks consumer privacy notices to see what information they can 'share'. Examples:

https://www.bankofamerica.com/security-center/consumer-privacy-notice/
https://www.chase.com/digital/resources/privacy-security/privacy/consumer-privacy-notice.html

etc. Notice what you can't opt out of and compare to to some major credit unions. The difference is stark.

Re: transactions. Are they actually $0 or just less than $1? The latter is a common mechanism some banks use to determine if you actually own an account before setting up automatics payments / EFTs / etc. Used in lieu of you providing a voided check, your username/password, etc. Sometimes they'll debit the account 2-3 transactions, each less than a dollar and ask you to verify the amounts before they reverse the charges. Once you verify, they will allow you to send e.g. EFTs to/from the account, etc. I don't know if Google does this for setting up Google Pay offhand. It could be someone trying to establish 'ownership' of the account so they can set up an outbound EFT or wire and then ride off into the sunset.

[Borderland]

You may be right, but not for that reason. Anyone your bank is sharing / selling information with doesn't need to post $0 transactions. You have to check your banks consumer privacy notices to see what information they can 'share'. Examples:

https://www.bankofamerica.com/security-center/consumer-privacy-notice/
https://www.chase.com/digital/resources/privacy-security/privacy/consumer-privacy-notice.html

etc. Notice what you can't opt out of and compare to to some major credit unions. The difference is stark.

Re: transactions. Are they actually $0 or just less than $1? The latter is a common mechanism some banks use to determine if you actually own an account before setting up automatics payments / EFTs / etc. Used in lieu of you providing a voided check, your username/password, etc. Sometimes they'll debit the account 2-3 transactions, each less than a dollar and ask you to verify the amounts before they reverse the charges. Once you verify, they will allow you to send e.g. EFTs to/from the account, etc. I don't know if Google does this for setting up Google Pay offhand. It could be someone trying to establish 'ownership' of the account so they can set up an outbound EFT or wire and then ride off into the sunset.

$0.00 amount but still a line item on my internet balance sheet.

I understand the <$1 transfer ping. I've set those transfers up at both of my banks to move money to and from different accounts. I'm still digging into this for some answers and looking at the consumer privacy notice will probably be my next adventure. I used to do all my banking with a credit union and I was pretty happy there. My problem is I need a bank within 20 miles of where I live (I'm retired) and I only have one that close that continues to amaze me with their incompetence. It isn't a bank that you would recognize. ;)

[Odin Bravo One]

If you don’t hold it, it’s not yours, and you don’t own it. That’s why we only rely on a small portion of our portfolio to be in financial institutions working with electronic fiat currencies.

I’ve invested heavily in metals over the years, and my rates of return are solid enough to not have to go get a day job, allowing me to retire, and be retired at age 43. (Marrying a hot rich chick helped a little bit too)

[Wise_A]

Yeah, none of that sounds remotely like a reputable breeder. Definitely expect a meet-and-greet and extensive communications. It's also fairly standard to require a referral or recommendation from your vet. Legitimate breeders aren't out to make a profit by selling puppies--they're in it to advance the breed or to show dogs. The puppies that they sell are the ones that they're not going to breed or show. As such, they'll come with a (mostly unenforceable) agreement to spay/neuter, and the breeder is more interested in not being exposed on any costs they incur transporting the puppy, and finding a good home for them. They're not making any money on the sale. They'll never pressure you for more money, you'll either cover the transportation cost or not; reputable breeders tend to have no problem finding homes for their puppies.

Don't feel bad. We get reports of this exact scam fairly often. If it's any consolation, $200 is on the low side, as far as what I've seen. You can file a report with your local police agency. You should not expect an investigation, as one would be pointless anyway. Whether or not it's worthwhile depends on (a) how quickly said agency processes admin calls, and (b) whether your bank requires a police report.

[theJanitor]

....allowing me to retire, and be retired at age 43. (Marrying a hot rich chick helped a little bit too)

Marrying a hot chick normally means never retiring. I wouldn't know what to do with one that was rich, as well

[theJanitor]

Poconnor , the demand for puppies in my AO is nuts. Mixed breed dogs with no papers are regularly in the $3k+ range.

I think it's coronavirus related, though. With everyone stuck in their homes, kids especially, could use canine companionship. Since our dog passed last year, my wife has been heartbroken, and she finally was ready for a new puppy a few months ago. It took us a month, but we ended up with a puppy. We met the seller, and only after feeling comfortable with them, did we purchase. She wanted to put a deposit down, but I advised against it, and I think it was a good decision, as we had contact with some shady characters previously. In the end, the best course of action, was to have a pile of cash on hand, a bill-of-sale preprinted, and the ability to drop everything on a dime and drive to wherever/whenever.

I hope you find your dog soon, at whatever the cost. In the end, it'll be worth it.

[mmc45414]

Marrying a hot chick normally means never retiring.
I have just a few years to go, and seeing some of my buddies with younger wives starting to wonder about how that is gonna work out for them... :cool:


Since our dog passed last year, my wife has been heartbroken, and she finally was ready for a new puppy a few months ago.
For us I do not think either of us were ready in the grief sense, but I think MrsMMc was so heartbroken she was constantly looking at adoption groups on FB and the outcome was kinda inevitable :cool:


In the end, the best course of action, was to have a pile of cash on hand, a bill-of-sale preprinted, and the ability to drop everything on a dime and drive to wherever/whenever.
Yeah, we ended up going from OH to LA (ended up meeting in MS), I wonder how many great dogs we drove past on the way, hahaha.


I hope you find your dog soon, at whatever the cost. In the end, it'll be worth it.
In our case, this one sure has been a good one...

[Kirk]

Yeah, none of that sounds remotely like a reputable breeder. Definitely expect a meet-and-greet and extensive communications. It's also fairly standard to require a referral or recommendation from your vet. Legitimate breeders aren't out to make a profit by selling puppies--they're in it to advance the breed or to show dogs. The puppies that they sell are the ones that they're not going to breed or show. As such, they'll come with a (mostly unenforceable) agreement to spay/neuter, and the breeder is more interested in not being exposed on any costs they incur transporting the puppy, and finding a good home for them. They're not making any money on the sale. They'll never pressure you for more money, you'll either cover the transportation cost or not; reputable breeders tend to have no problem finding homes for their puppies

This definitely mimics my experience. My wife and I have 2 Italian Greyhounds, one purchased when we were dating, and we had to have references and an interview with the breeder before we could purchase. One big concern she had was that we were not married ("what happens if my y'all split up"), but we've now been married for 5 years so I think we passed the test :D. The demand for her dogs are pretty insane as she has multiple champions, and if we didn't past muster, there were probably 10 people in line that would have happily taken our spot for a puppy. We had to sign several pages of paperwork, one, like you say, agreeing to spay. My Dad has purchased a couple of South African Mastiffs (Boerboels) over the past 15-20 years from a breeder and they were maybe more rigorous, requiring him to fly basically halfway across the country to meet with them in person on the first puppy before they would sell.

To the OP, I really hope you find your dog, man. I genuinely hate that this happened to you. I know the loss of money sucks, but the loss at a potential dog is worse. Good luck on your search and I hope that your bank is able to provide you with a quick refund.

[JAD]

Marrying a hot chick normally means never retiring. I wouldn't know what to do with one that was rich, as well

Whatever she asks.

[BWT]

So, not to scare the pants off of folks about the google stuff.

What happened to us once was our credit card information was compromised. The first indication was there was like one or two repeated charges for $.99. Then they hit it for everything that it was worth and drained the checking account.

We were able to recover the funds (after 14 days) because it was a credit/debit card.

It’d probably be a good idea to have a new card issued.

This would not require a new account, but simply a new card.

I’m not a defacto expert, but I have seen this and that’s what it seems to me is your card may have been compromised by some online vendor, and they’re testing the cards to find which ones are active.

I hope that is not the case.

ETA: Also, don’t hate me but go ahead and drive to the bank and get a temporary card physically versus calling the hotline if you do decide to exercise this option.

If you call the hotline they will cancel your card and mail another one within 7 business days. Most folks actually need the money they need in their checking/savings account for some weird reason and don’t plan on not being able to spend any of it for two weeks.

Crazy talk here. But, that’s banks for you.

“Hey I have some potentially fraudulent charges I wanted to call and check in about”

“Okay let me check something”

Long pause “How’s it looking?”

“We have canceled your card”

“... okay well do I get another one?”

“We should have one to you in 5 to 7 business days.”

Was how that phone call went.

[Borderland]

So, not to scare the pants off of folks about the google stuff.

What happened to us once was our credit card information was compromised. The first indication was there was like one or two repeated charges for $.99. Then they hit it for everything that it was worth and drained the checking account.

We were able to recover the funds (after 14 days) because it was a credit/debit card.

It’d probably be a good idea to have a new card issued.

This would not require a new account, but simply a new card.

I’m not a defacto expert, but I have seen this and that’s what it seems to me is your card may have been compromised by some online vendor, and they’re testing the cards to find which ones are active.

I hope that is not the case.

ETA: Also, don’t hate me but go ahead and drive to the bank and get a temporary card physically versus calling the hotline if you do decide to exercise this option.

If you call the hotline they will cancel your card and mail another one within 7 business days. Most folks actually need the money they need in their checking/savings account for some weird reason and don’t plan on not being able to spend any of it for two weeks.

Crazy talk here. But, that’s banks for you.

“Hey I have some potentially fraudulent charges I wanted to call and check in about”

“Okay let me check something”

Long pause “How’s it looking?”

“We have canceled your card”

“... okay well do I get another one?”

“We should have one to you in 5 to 7 business days.”

Was how that phone call went.

People don't like to deal with cash anymore but I've got a safe and enough cash to get me by for a month. The banking industry is going to blow this country up one of these days. Came very close in 2008. I took my entire 401K out of the stock market 3 days before the melt down. I saw it coming.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-was-the-bank-bailout-bill-3305675

[mmc45414]

People don't like to deal with cash anymore but I've got a safe and enough cash to get me by for a month.
I never used to, but when the CV hit I had a friend pay me for a gun or something in cash and I just started keeping a little in there. I still track it as savings, but I pretty much quit taking cash to the bank. Also can't remember using my ATM card, since when we need cash I withdraw it from the basement... :cool:

[GNiner]

People don't like to deal with cash anymore but I've got a safe and enough cash to get me by for a month. The banking industry is going to blow this country up one of these days. Came very close in 2008. I took my entire 401K out of the stock market 3 days before the melt down. I saw it coming.

Did you put it back? Because the market is up something like 460% since then.

[jh9]

I’m not a defacto expert, but I have seen this and that’s what it seems to me is your card may have been compromised by some online vendor, and they’re testing the cards to find which ones are active.

I hope that is not the case.

Technically they're all online vendors since even a physical POS terminal you use in person is connected to the internet. I believe this has been standard for awhile. The old days of a merchant's POS using a dedicated phone line + modem and calling out to the payment processor directly for each swipe has been (AFAIK) deader than disco for a time period probably measured in decades now.

This is why I never use a debit card for anything except an ATM (that doesn't have an obvious skimmer mounted to it) attached to a brick wall at one of the credit union's branches. And also have any sort of overdraft 'protection' connected to a savings account explicitly disabled.

Payment processors get compromised all the time. I don't want to wait days or weeks to get my money back. If the bank doesn't care to fight for their stolen money that's their business. It's the bank's problem, not mine.

[BWT]

Technically they're all online vendors since even a physical POS terminal you use in person is connected to the internet. I believe this has been standard for awhile. The old days of a merchant's POS using a dedicated phone line + modem and calling out to the payment processor directly for each swipe has been (AFAIK) deader than disco for a time period probably measured in decades now.

This is why I never use a debit card for anything except an ATM (that doesn't have an obvious skimmer mounted to it) attached to a brick wall at one of the credit union's branches. And also have any sort of overdraft 'protection' connected to a savings account explicitly disabled.

Payment processors get compromised all the time. I don't want to wait days or weeks to get my money back. If the bank doesn't care to fight for their stolen money that's their business. It's the bank's problem, not mine.

Right,

When I referred to online vendors - I meant payment processors.

I’d agree with your practices except we’re pretty anti-credit card. I know that’s a highly controversial viewpoint and we don’t have to discuss it.

It makes life easier that’s for sure when you look at the odds are your credit/debit info will be stolen at one point or another.

[Borderland]

Did you put it back? Because the market is up something like 460% since then.

Oh yeah. Jumped back in right away. I had a very strange premonition something bad was about to happen in the market.

I've only had one other in my life. When I was about 15 I had what you might call a disturbance in the force. I got home from school and asked my dad if everything was OK. Nope, my cousin was killed earlier that same day.

Actually there was one other time but I never figured that one out.

[richiecotite]

That sucks, especially since you can’t do anything about it.

Daughter was looking close to a year for a dog. I’d guesstimate 70% of online dogs for sale are scams. We ended up finding a Boston terrier 6 hours away...talked to the owner, he sounded ok, and overnighted a personal check as a deposit. Spoke to the guy consistently, but was still a little a nervous I was being scammed.

We drove down there and up the mountain as far as we could make it where he lived. Guy came down and handed over the dog, vet records and food and we handed over the balance in cash.


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[Coyotesfan97]

When it’s time for a puppie here’s where I’m going. It’s a drive but I’ve personally seen and played with some of their dogs.

Cher Car Kennels (http://www.chercarkennels.net/homepage.html)

[willie]

Why not get a rescue puppy?

[mmc45414]

Why not get a rescue puppy?
While our recent experience is not what I would characterize as "rescue", it was more of a "rehoming", it kind of amazes me how many great dogs are in situations where they cannot stay. My wife found Cami by following a breed specific group on Facebook, a great dog with good breeding and less than two years old. There seems to be a steady flow of opportunities, elderly people, divorced people, relocating people, lots of unfortunate situations the dogs seem to be caught in the middle of.

OTOH we were at dinner a while back and having a conversation with two of the bartenders and one was telling of his friend that goes to the shelter and adopts old dogs that nobody will take, cares for them the rest of their life, and then goes back and gets another one. Is it wrong that all I was thinking was "Damn Dude, how much poon tang can one guy manage?"...

[willie]

My neighbor went to a garage sale and was given an adult dog that was one dog too many. This pup is sweet, kind, and brilliant.

[mmc45414]

My neighbor went to a garage sale and was given an adult dog that was one dog too many. This pup is sweet, kind, and brilliant.This is our most recent "rehome"....
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210319/f15dce1eae9a12238f84037b62b53711.jpg

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[willie]

I'm an old burned out school teacher and frequently criticized parents for lack of objectivity. Anna Belle and I went to puppy school. The 2nd week we got kicked out. Another guy told me my pup was pretty but not very smart. I could not allow him to make chumps out of us.