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Sanch
03-01-2021, 01:16 AM
I’ve avoided red dots on handguns until now. I have great vision, have no problem focusing on the front site, I don’t compete, I’m not a cop, and the iron sights on my glock 43 or 19 are good enough for CCW for my needs.

But, now I have night vision, and with events of 2020 I’m more interested in preparedness setups that involve gear and a long gun. So what I’m looking to do is take a glock 19 or glock 17, since I’m comfortable with glocks and have lots of mags, and put a red dot on it, for a “tactical holster” setup, which I refer to as a “duty” setup in a respectful way since it’s what I imagine a SWAT officer might use as a secondary.

The reasons I avoided red dots on handguns up until now:

1. Some of them required re-zeroing after changing batteries and I frequently get busy with work/family and can go 6 months without time to hit the range. So it can be a huge hassle to re-zero.

2. Issues with water/rain, something about open emitters.

3. In the past, required custom slide milling which seemed like a huge hassle. And was specific to the optic I bought. And with tech constantly evolving, I’d need a new slide to mill around a future optic every 5 years or so.

4. Some of them can’t be left constantly on at all times and require you to push the on button once every 12 hours or something.

5. My threat model doesn’t have me making 100 yard terrorist shots at the shopping mall. And iron sights seem perfectly acceptable for my likely threat model of under 5 yards. So the costs and trade offs and hassle of red dots didn’t make sense before.

But now I have night vision and I don’t want to get an IR laser for my handgun. I think I’d rather have a red dot optic.

I’ve only been casually following the red dot handgun market, and the idea of the glock MOS is appealing because it’s supposed to be a generic milled-area with ability to have new plates made to work with any future optic.

I love micro aimpoints, so if I can put an aimpoint T1 on a new glock MOS, which means I can change batteries without re-zeroing because the battery is on the side, no problem with water since it’s a closed system, and the biggest if, if I can get a nice holster, like a safariland retention holster that works with a glock + aimpoint micro, then it seems like it’s the way to go for me with my desire to LARP with night vision and have a red dot gun on a “war belt”

It’s not clear to me if it’s possible to put a T1 on a glock MOS and it’s not clear if safariland makes holsters that would support that.

If I have to get a glock milled to take a T1, I would still consider it in spite of the hassle since I suspect the T1 will last the rest of my expected life (30 years) or at least there will be a new model that fits the footprint or new-old-stock available to buy and replace. But if a standard holster doesn’t exist, I don’t want to deal with getting the milling and then shipping the gun to a holster maker because this seems like a 12 month or longer proposition.

If this just all sounds ridiculous and a lot of custom effort needed, then I think a surefire with IR laser might be the way I go and just stick to irons on top. The only dual vis/IR surefire is huge and has a weird bulky shape. And the idea of zeroing an IR-only laser without a slaved visible laser seems like a hassle. But, perhaps I can buy a visible bore laser, and under NODs, adjust the bore laser to match the IR laser at a known distance in a backyard without shooting live ammo. Although maybe the visible bore laser will bloom under NODs too much and I’m not sure if an IR bore laser exists (I assume not).

Geiselle’s wife’s company, ALG makes a “6 second mount” that lets you put an aimpoint micro on a floating rail but I doubt holsters exist for this. Although I guess I could ship just the 6 second mount plus aimpoint to a holster maker for a custom holster without needing to ship a gun and they can put it on top of their own glock.

I guess what I really want is the lowest hassle/effort way of using a handgun with NODs that doesn’t require enthusiast-level work that minimizes custom stuff because I’ve been down that road in the past and I’m over it.

HCM
03-01-2021, 03:39 AM
I’ve avoided red dots on handguns until now. I have great vision, have no problem focusing on the front site, I don’t compete, I’m not a cop, and the iron sights on my glock 43 or 19 are good enough for CCW for my needs.

But, now I have night vision, and with events of 2020 I’m more interested in preparedness setups that involve gear and a long gun. So what I’m looking to do is take a glock 19 or glock 17, since I’m comfortable with glocks and have lots of mags, and put a red dot on it, for a “tactical holster” setup, which I refer to as a “duty” setup in a respectful way since it’s what I imagine a SWAT officer might use as a secondary.

The reasons I avoided red dots on handguns up until now:

1. Some of them required re-zeroing after changing batteries and I frequently get busy with work/family and can go 6 months without time to hit the range. So it can be a huge hassle to re-zero.

2. Issues with water/rain, something about open emitters.

3. In the past, required custom slide milling which seemed like a huge hassle. And was specific to the optic I bought. And with tech constantly evolving, I’d need a new slide to mill around a future optic every 5 years or so.

4. Some of them can’t be left constantly on at all times and require you to push the on button once every 12 hours or something.

5. My threat model doesn’t have me making 100 yard terrorist shots at the shopping mall. And iron sights seem perfectly acceptable for my likely threat model of under 5 yards. So the costs and trade offs and hassle of red dots didn’t make sense before.

But now I have night vision and I don’t want to get an IR laser for my handgun. I think I’d rather have a red dot optic.

I’ve only been casually following the red dot handgun market, and the idea of the glock MOS is appealing because it’s supposed to be a generic milled-area with ability to have new plates made to work with any future optic.

I love micro aimpoints, so if I can put an aimpoint T1 on a new glock MOS, which means I can change batteries without re-zeroing because the battery is on the side, no problem with water since it’s a closed system, and the biggest if, if I can get a nice holster, like a safariland retention holster that works with a glock + aimpoint micro, then it seems like it’s the way to go for me with my desire to LARP with night vision and have a red dot gun on a “war belt”

It’s not clear to me if it’s possible to put a T1 on a glock MOS and it’s not clear if safariland makes holsters that would support that.

If I have to get a glock milled to take a T1, I would still consider it in spite of the hassle since I suspect the T1 will last the rest of my expected life (30 years) or at least there will be a new model that fits the footprint or new-old-stock available to buy and replace. But if a standard holster doesn’t exist, I don’t want to deal with getting the milling and then shipping the gun to a holster maker because this seems like a 12 month or longer proposition.

If this just all sounds ridiculous and a lot of custom effort needed, then I think a surefire with IR laser might be the way I go and just stick to irons on top. The only dual vis/IR surefire is huge and has a weird bulky shape. And the idea of zeroing an IR-only laser without a slaved visible laser seems like a hassle. But, perhaps I can buy a visible bore laser, and under NODs, adjust the bore laser to match the IR laser at a known distance in a backyard without shooting live ammo. Although maybe the visible bore laser will bloom under NODs too much and I’m not sure if an IR bore laser exists (I assume not).

Geiselle’s wife’s company, ALG makes a “6 second mount” that lets you put an aimpoint micro on a floating rail but I doubt holsters exist for this. Although I guess I could ship just the 6 second mount plus aimpoint to a holster maker for a custom holster without needing to ship a gun and they can put it on top of their own glock.

I guess what I really want is the lowest hassle/effort way of using a handgun with NODs that doesn’t require enthusiast-level work that minimizes custom stuff because I’ve been down that road in the past and I’m over it.

Your concept is ridiculous. Even if your gear set up is hassle free fighting with NVGs is not. That said:

The Aimpoint Micros use a rotating rheostat to adjust brightness. It does not tolerate the G forces generated by a pistol slide. It’s only a matter of time before the rheostat fails under recoil.

Practical issues aside the 6 second mount is out of production and practically a collectible at this point.

If you want an Aimpoint, get and MOS Glock and an ACRO and change batteries monthly.

Otherwise, get a Glock MOS and and RMR 06/07 - use the C&H precision or forward controls - mount per the directions with the plate or per the sticky.

Glock sells two factory direct milled options in Europe - the MOS 2 and the MOS 3, One is milled for the RMR foot print, one for the Leupold DPP foot print.

These may become available in the US soon. But until they do, the MOS with the C&H or FCD plate it the best option.

Cory
03-01-2021, 06:16 AM
6 second mounts are difficult to find now, mostly because the concept is a bit dated. They were used by Army CAG at least breifly, and there are holsters out there. I haven't looked but they're probably just as difficult to find and I'm not positive about how good they are.

If you take a look around the web for "CAG Glock" or "CAG G22" you'll find some stuff.

Jason M
03-01-2021, 06:34 AM
Number 5. Seems you have already answered your question. If you still want to go down that road; seek vetted NODs training before spending money on hardware. NODs may not up your "preparedness" they way you believe they will.

YVK
03-01-2021, 08:56 AM
Practical issues aside the 6 second mount is out of production and practically a collectible at this point.




6 second mounts are difficult to find now, mostly because the concept is a bit dated.


Posting for informational purposes only: Agency Arms makes their version of it that supports several optics including the Micro.

Nephrology
03-01-2021, 09:39 AM
I like my ACRO a lot. For what it's worth, my battery life has been great. I got mine in late October '20 and installed the battery that the sight came with. Its' been more or loss constantly on since, generally at the 6-7 brightness setting (out of 10). It's been turned off for maybe a total of 24 hours over the last 25 weeks.

Just checked it in the safe now, was still able to get up to 10/10 brightness so I assume the battery still has some life left in it. I'm a big fan and if I was going to buy a dot for CCW purposes I'd buy another Acro for sure.

Sanch
03-01-2021, 10:23 AM
I like my ACRO a lot. For what it's worth, my battery life has been great. I got mine in late October '20 and installed the battery that the sight came with. Its' been more or loss constantly on since, generally at the 6-7 brightness setting (out of 10). It's been turned off for maybe a total of 24 hours over the last 25 weeks.

Just checked it in the safe now, was still able to get up to 10/10 brightness so I assume the battery still has some life left in it. I'm a big fan and if I was going to buy a dot for CCW purposes I'd buy another Acro for sure.

When the acro first came out, I was super excited because I’m an aimpoint fanboy. And I thought I’d finally buy my first red dot sight. But the reviews here on PF were awful. I don’t remember specifics, but I recall something about lying about battery life and maybe a durability issue. I just remember being really deflated that aimpoint put out a shit product.

Are they considered good now? Because I’ll buy a glock MOS and acro and call it good if they are.

Sanch
03-01-2021, 10:26 AM
Number 5. Seems you have already answered your question. If you still want to go down that road; seek vetted NODs training before spending money on hardware. NODs may not up your "preparedness" they way you believe they will.

Sorry for confusion I meant number 5 (being taking a 100 yard terrorist shot at the mall) isn’t in my CCW threat model so owning an optic on my CCW gun never made sense. But I did take a NODs class two weeks ago and since I didn’t have a red dot or a laser on my handgun, when we did transition drills, I had to look under my NODs and use white light and iron sights which kind of sucked. So my first training class is what led me down this road.

And realistically wouldn’t be more than 25 yards shot probably but I’d like to be able do do it under NODs even if just for fun and training reps with NODs and IR reticle.

dontshakepandas
03-01-2021, 10:28 AM
When the acro first came out, I was super excited because I’m an aimpoint fanboy. And I thought I’d finally buy my first red dot sight. But the reviews here on PF were awful. I don’t remember specifics, but I recall something about lying about battery life and maybe a durability issue. I just remember being really deflated that aimpoint put out a shit product.

Are they considered good now? Because I’ll buy a glock MOS and acro and call it good if they are.

They are good, but the battery life is its Achilles heal. I haven't seen any reports of durability issues, but the battery life is substantially less than other options.

If you are set on a closed emitter and want better battery life, take a look at the Holosun 509t.

Nephrology
03-01-2021, 10:33 AM
When the acro first came out, I was super excited because I’m an aimpoint fanboy. And I thought I’d finally buy my first red dot sight. But the reviews here on PF were awful. I don’t remember specifics, but I recall something about lying about battery life and maybe a durability issue. I just remember being really deflated that aimpoint put out a shit product.

Are they considered good now? Because I’ll buy a glock MOS and acro and call it good if they are.

I can only speak for the model that I own, but I am quite happy with it. My ACRO seems to have a slight blue tint to the glass which in reading historical posts may be a new-ish development though I am just speculating based on reading the same negative reports you mention. Not something that was ever announced so I may be totally wrong here.

Either way the dot is still very bright and I haven't changed the batteries in over 5 months. YMMV

SoCalDep
03-01-2021, 10:46 AM
I love my ACRO. I’ll be getting a second one soon for duty use. I’d be running the one I have for duty but it’s the only optic I have that works on my Unity ATOM slide, which I love to shoot but can’t carry on duty.

While battery life isn’t as good as other optics it’s REALLY easy to change. Further, I’ve been told how my ACRO battery that gets used almost daily on high brightness settings will die in three weeks when I was at a documented 2.5 months of use.

Yep - it has advantages and drawbacks. A lot of keyboard experts read and regurgitated reviews and statements that in some cases came from big-name people who also never actually used one.

Artemas2
03-01-2021, 10:52 AM
Step 1 get an RMR or an acro
Step 2 get a reputable mill job fit for your optic
Step 3 Learn how to use it. Your concerns are valid, but none of them are a huge deal after some time on the dot.


I have an older Type 1 RMR 06 and a slide that was cut by ATEI that is now 4 years old. I leave it on setting 6/8 and change the battery every year and not because I need to . It has not lost zero after remounting. I have swapped barrels a few times and the zero shift was always irrelevant at less than 10 yards, maybe an inch or two at 20 yards and well within a B8 black out to 50 yards. If you absolutely feel the need to confirm zero on your handgun then keep a battery in your range bag and change it at the range or a day before if you need to use loctite or some such (ATEI doesn't recommend loctight for their screws and I have not needed it).

My RMR is has around 10k on it now which should be about the time for it to die. In those same rounds, my rear sight has drifted twice and 3 front sights (with red loctite on the screw and base) have tried for moon landings during a match or class.

Just from what I have seen happen to other people on the range, I do not believe the factory milled guns are ready for prime time yet. Glock specifically has spectacularly failed in this regard. If you don't want to get a custom milled slide, the CHPWS plate is the best choice for right now.

Sanch
03-01-2021, 11:23 AM
Sounds like the Acro is the way to go. I assume the battery doesn’t drain when the optic is turned off, right? If so I’ll just leave it off with the intention of turning it on as I get LARP kitted up.

Since my intention for this guy is with NODs and tac gear, I don’t see the need to keep it on 24/7, and perhaps this means the battery issue for me is a non-issue? I still have no desire to CCW with it. And if I have time to grab a rifle from the safe, put on gear, put on a helmet, NODs, etc then I can turn this on as an extra step.

I guess my next unknown is if I should buy a new gen 5 MOS or have one of my existing gen 3 glocks milled, or if I should try to find a pre-milled new slide only like unity tactical atom or (shudder) Suarez international makes some I think.

And I do get it milled, can it be milled to match the MOS cut, so I can use MOS-compatible plates and change the optic every 5 to 10 years as new ones come out?

And then whether I do a g17 or a g19. I own both but I shoot the 19 way better. The 17 has a weird recoil impulse to me. Both are gen 3. Or maybe I get the newer-ish G45 which I think has a g17 grip with g19 slide so might be the recoil impulse I shoot better but with a bigger grip since if I’m wearing tactical gloves, the g19 is a bit too small for me. Which is why I bought the g17 to begin with but I shoot it poorly compared to the 19.

Sanch
03-01-2021, 11:49 AM
doesn’t look like safariland makes holsters for glock mos with acro on them, at least not in their product finder.

Perhaps it’s not listed but maybe a different red dot sight safari land holster is compatible with acro? Weird it wouldn’t be listed since aimpoint is such a big industry name.

757_Magnum
03-01-2021, 01:05 PM
Not sure if I missed it, but why not go with a type 2 RMR other than the open emitter? You get a smaller optic with an ESTABLISHED footprint for carry as well as widely adopted holster compatibility. Are you set on an exclusively "duty" type rig with no desire to carry it? Once I started down the dot path by putting an RMR on a G19, I knew I also had to have one on my G26 that I carry half the time. If the open emitter is of concern to you, I'll say that I didn't have any issues in the two matches I had in the pouring rain, though I was running a Safariland 6930 with the protective RDS hood. The only time I experienced starbursts was in a match where we had to start facedown in a half full (or half empty, your pick) kiddie pool, and it was cleared after the first shot. You do have to be conscious of height over bore with any optic, though. I had the honor of being the first to put a hole in the side of the pool. :cool:

The process of getting a slide milled is relatively painless other than the wait. If you catch Jagerwerks during a sale (they'll probably have one Memorial Day), the cost to mill and refinish is about the price difference between getting an MOS model. You can also order a filler plate for about $30 so that if you later decide that optics aren't for you, you can resume using irons only, and RMRs are easy to sell used as long as they're in decent condition.

Sero Sed Serio
03-01-2021, 03:27 PM
doesn’t look like safariland makes holsters for glock mos with acro on them, at least not in their product finder.

Perhaps it’s not listed but maybe a different red dot sight safari land holster is compatible with acro? Weird it wouldn’t be listed since aimpoint is such a big industry name.

I have a Safariland ALS that fits my G19/Acro/X300U. It looks like it was designed for an RMR, but the hood that covers the optic is designed to pop off so it accepts the longer optic. I’ll get a model number and pic tonight.

HCM
03-01-2021, 04:15 PM
When the acro first came out, I was super excited because I’m an aimpoint fanboy. And I thought I’d finally buy my first red dot sight. But the reviews here on PF were awful. I don’t remember specifics, but I recall something about lying about battery life and maybe a durability issue. I just remember being really deflated that aimpoint put out a shit product.

Are they considered good now? Because I’ll buy a glock MOS and acro and call it good if they are.

Aimpoint claimed a certain battery life at a certain setting. The issue is most people find that setting too low for defensive use where you will not have time to adjust the brightness before you need to use the optic.

Other than short battery life due to using a 1225 battery the ACRO is everything you would expect from an Aimpoint.

I’ve not experienced and durability issues. My local police Dept’s (2,000 sworn) firearms unit just completed a year long RDS test for duty use and the ACRO was one of 4 RDS which passed.

As noted, the ACRO on Glock MOS fits current Safariland holsters.

If the other benefits of a duty grade closed emitter optic are worth it to you you will just change the battery every month or two. If not, you will pick something else.

Sero Sed Serio
03-01-2021, 10:24 PM
I have a Safariland ALS that fits my G19/Acro/X300U. It looks like it was designed for an RMR, but the hood that covers the optic is designed to pop off so it accepts the longer optic. I’ll get a model number and pic tonight.

7378RDS-28325. Advertised to fit a 34, 17, and 19. Surprisingly it retains my 19 without the light, although I don’t trust all that potential wiggle room if the gun gets torqued around in a gun grab (not a likely scenario in my current life, but still...) so I only carry with the light mounted.

The only ALS I’ve had that doesn’t have some jiggle when running, and it would take some seriously tiny fingers to slip in and access the trigger, unlike the older 63xx light-bearing holsters.

68246

68247

Eyesquared
03-05-2021, 01:40 PM
Just one data point but the Army SMU is issuing gen 5 Glock 17s with a direct milled cut for the Deltapoint Pro.

My personal opinion is that having to remove the dot to change batteries is a non-starter. If you mess up the install on a dot and have to redo it, it is a pain in the ass as you have to reapply threadlocker, wait a day for it to cure, then go zero and test fire, etc. For a guy like me who only makes it to the range on weekends, that could mean my gun is out of commission for a week after changing the batteries on an RMR. Yes, you can change batteries a lot less on an RMR but with other optics changing batteries is basically pain free.

Erick Gelhaus
03-07-2021, 12:57 PM
I’ve avoided red dots on handguns until now. I have great vision, have no problem focusing on the front site, I don’t compete, I’m not a cop, and the iron sights on my glock 43 or 19 are good enough for CCW for my needs ...

In no certain order ...

I've got a T1 on a Unity Tactical Atom mount & slide. I don't know of any aftermarket plates that will accept one;

A friend ran a T1 on his Glock in a 3-day pistol class I taught a couple of years back. He had to Dremel the heck out of a Safariland military holster to get the T1 in but when done it worked fine.

My primary/full-size pistol has an early Acro P1 on it - which I'm pretty happy with. I'm looking forward to the product improved version and people selling off their P1s;

I'm really hoping we see the Atom 2.0 mounting solution take off. If not then I'll likely go to CORE route for future slides;

While the 6 Second Mount may have gone away, Agency Arms has released their version of it;

I have pretty limited combined NVG/RDS(PMO) time. If you can turn the dot down & are using dual tubes, it is pretty damn effective;

Regarding water/rain, earlier this week Dan Smith, from Centrifuge Training, shared a video of an RMR that had gotten rain on the lens. As he moved, rotated the muzzle around, the dot would appear towards the outside of the lens but disappear as it neared the center. Don't know if the lens had been treated with anything. I taught a PMO class this last week - it was cold & rainy on day one but no issues were noted (day 2 was just extremely cold);

Regarding battery life, follow what SoCalDep has been posting on his data;