Hunting bolt gun

[newyork]

Looking to start hunting this year. Bought an A300 for my areas birds and possibly deer. May get a bow too for here possibly. Maybe not.

Anyway, I’m looking for suggestions for a solid bolt action gun that isn’t a super lightweight or a boat anchor. Maybe 7-8lbs. 308, 30-06, 6.5 or 270. Whatever isn’t a fortune and commonly found and doesn’t feel like a truck hit me when firing it.

Hunting upstate and some range work here and there.

Goal is to one day hunt more with it.

Even though it’ll be a big effort to hunt upstate more than once a year, my goal is to make it happen elsewhere in addition over time.

Budget is $700-1000 for the rifle.

Some I’ve looked at and liked whether it be online or in person;

Weatherby High Country, First Lite and Meateater in 308
Sako A7 in 6.5
Sauer 100 classic xt in 6.5
Tikka t3x and t3x stainless heavy bbl (maybe too heavy), and battue
Steyr Scout gets honorable mention but costs a lot more.


Scope idk yet.

[rd62]

What game and how far will your typical shots be? Stalking or stand hunting? .308 and 6.5 in my area are pretty well unobtainable. You may have better luck finding ammo in a more traditional hunting cartridge. I like the .30-06.

[newyork]

White tail. Typically I believe 50-300 yards. I plan to take it elsewhere over the years if I’m lucky and have the money. We will see. For now, white tail and upstate NY.

Little bit of both tree stand and stalking but idk, I haven’t been up there yet. I’m planning and just getting started. I wanted the rifle to not be too heavy in preparation of stalking and not too light as to handle recoil.

[newyork]

One of my local shops says 6.5 is tough to find. Can’t find it. If I buy a 6.5 he would have 40rds to sell. Yikes. .308 he had a few cases. I didn’t ask about 30-06. I think he had no guns in 30-06 honestly. Some 308, 6.5 guns and 300WM and a few others.

[cornstalker]

I personally really like Bergara rifles. I feel like you get a lot more than you pay for in quality and features. Both of mine are shooters. Their B14 series is mostly under $1000 and comes in multiple configurations.

In a seven to eight-pound rifle with a scope, .270 and .30-06 will cover all of the bases in North America minus brown bears and the largest of ungulates at extreme ranges without knocking your fillings loose. They have been around since 1925 and 1906, respectively. Ammo is common and affordable in normal times. There are plenty of newer and sexier cartridges, but it's hard to argue with the track record. For something slightly less common, I would consider the .280 Remington, especially the Ackley Improved version. The .280 AI will be harder to find ammo for but nearly duplicates 7mm Rem Mag with less blast and recoil. When and if I shoot the barrel out of my.270 Winchester, it will become a .280 AI.

Enjoy the search.

[cornstalker]

For a hunting scope, A Leupold VX-3i or VX-3HD in 3.5-10x40 can be had for under $500 and would treat you well.

[newyork]

Glad to hear that. Leupold medium rings? I was curious if lower on the bottom end would be better.

[pangloss]

I think that anything you mentioned would be fine, but I don't have much time with bolt guns. I would not rule out the 7mm cartridges, like a 7mm-08 and 7mm Mauser. There are lots of right answers. I hunt with a .270 Win, but anything from 6.5 up to a .30-06 would work just as well. If I were going to buy a new rifle today, I'd probably get a 6.5 CM, though I also really like the 6.5x55.

The new 6.8 Western is extremely interesting to me, because it was designed to shoot heavy for caliber bullets. For years I loaded 160gr bullets for my .270 Win, so getting factory loads in that diameter that are even heavier is very appealing. However, the heavy for caliber loads don't have any practical value for the kind of hunting I do, so I can't really defend my affection for them.

[newyork]

There’s a Sako A7 in 6.5 creedmoor I keep looking at. Black. Stainless 24.4” bbl. 8lbs. Plastic bottom though. $899. Someone was really pushing me to buy that one. Says it’s much better than it’s price. I’ve read some feeding issue accounts of the sakos in my research but it’s supposed to be nice. Wasn’t sure if 6.5 was the way to go for deer at first but I’m hearing great things.

I liked the feel of the Sauer and saw one for $600. In the shop it was a camo one at $1000 in 6.5. Really liked how the weatherby High Country felt but it was 1. $900 for a vanguard and it was in 300 Weatherby. Nope. There’s the Meateater model available online in 308 at $800. Basically the same gun.

Who am I kidding, if I really catch the bug, in a few years I’ll buy a second gun but in a bigger caliber.

[newyork]

Would 2.5-8 be a little too low? My eyes aren’t awesome. 4-14 seemed like too low a bottom.

[MickAK]

Savage 110 LW Storm in 6.5 Manbun is very comfortable to shoot for how light it is. Points and balances almost as good as a Sako.

[newyork]

Mocking me?

[gato naranja]

I would not rule out the 7mm cartridges, like a 7mm-08 and 7mm Mauser. There are lots of right answers. I hunt with a .270 Win, but anything from 6.5 up to a .30-06 would work just as well. If I were going to buy a new rifle today, I'd probably get a 6.5 CM, though I also really like the 6.5x55.

The 7x57 Mauser and the 6.5mm Swedish do both work nicely out of a light, trim bolt rifle and other than not being super-efficient (for lack of a better term) by today's standards, they remain good hunting cartridges that don't pound the snot out of the shooter. Neither gets much ink these days, but I still believe them to be the best of the milsurp rounds to live with when everything - accuracy, power, ease of reloading, versatility, etc - is considered.

A friend of mine who has a LOT of bolt-action hunting rifles and chamberings to choose from still uses an ex-military 7mm Mauser that was sporterized in the '60s on a regular basis, and he is sincere when he says that he doesn't really need all the other ones.

[okie john]

The rifles you mentioned are good choices. I’d also look at the Remington M-700, the Winchester M-70, and the Ruger M-77 Hawkeye at a minimum.

The Weatherbys you mentioned are all Vanguard models, which are built on Howa actions, possibly with Howa barrels, so I’d cut out the Weatherby markup and get a Howa. They’re known to shoot very well. The principal known issue is that bolt stops sometimes break and are a pain the ass to replace.

Sakos and Tikkas are built in the same factory and use the same barrels, so for the money I’d go with a Tikka. The drawback there is that they’re all the same action length so if you’re worried about weight that’s a factor. But they are superbly accurate out of the box and their triggers are perfect. Literally zero them and start hunting.

I’ve had very good luck with the Remington Package Rifles. My 308 shot MOA out of the box with cheap ammo and my 30-06 is almost as good. Triggers need a bit of work but aftermarket support for them is immense. The ones made right before the bankruptcy are considered among the best that Remington has ever built—the blueprinting that’s normally the first step in accurizing one isn’t necessary.

I’d avoid anything ultra-light. They can be hard to shoot well and they kick harder than slightly heavier rifles. Eight pounds loaded, scoped, and with a sling is a very good place to be, so factor in the weight of optics and mounts as you look at the overall weight.

You’re on the right track with common cartridges like the 30-06, 308, and 270. All will take deer and elk, blast and recoil aren’t bad. They’re among the last to run out and the first to return when times get weird like they are now. They’re also not expensive, which matters since you’ll spend more on ammo than on the rifle in the long run. Barrel length should be between 22” and 24”.

Definitely go stainless/synthetic. Factory synthetic stocks are better than you’d think, and paying the upcharge for a Bell & Carlson or HS Precision stock from the factory is not a bad call either. If you plan to upgrade to a top-drawer Bansner or McMillan later on, then definitely get the cheap factory stock for now.

Add a good 2.5-8 or 3-9 variable with an objective bell smaller than about 45mm in field-detachable mounts, zero it at 200 yards with the heaviest bullet that the chosen cartridge will move at 2,700 fps, and go forth.

A rifle like that will handle 99% of all game in North America, won't kick your teeth out, and will be easy to feed. You can add specialized rifles later, but those are best tied to a specific species or set of conditions so get a few hunts under your belt before going down that road.

On a completely separate note, get into a Hunter's Safety Course NOW if you haven’t already. You won't be able to buy a license without it, and classes fill quickly.


Okie John

[SD]

Have you looked @ Howa Rifles? They make rifles for several big name companies. Dependable and accurate with a NIB price around $600. On the other side of NY in grape country until recent times it was shotgun only for deer, rifle is now allowed in certain areas or zones. The most common rifle was a 30/30 in the beginning (probably already owned) but that has changed and i have seen more 30.06 and 243. in later years. Happy hunting

[newyork]

The JP Sauer in the shop was the Kuiu pattern in 6.5 creedmoor. Blue bbl which I didn’t get that combo. It was $1000. Shop online has the black stock with blue bbl in 6.5 and it’s $599. Loved the 60 degree bolt and trigger on it. Normally the black one is $799. There some other painted models that have cerakoted bbl too and in like 10 calibers. I liked that rifle a lot except the comb was a hair long. Not bad but not as cozy as a few others I held.

For $599 it’s tempting even in a blues bbl. kind of wish it were 308.

[newyork]

The rifles you mentioned are good choices. I’d also look at the Remington M-700, the Winchester M-70, and the Ruger M-77 Hawkeye at a minimum.

The Weatherbys you mentioned are all Vanguard models, which are built on Howa actions, possibly with Howa barrels, so I’d cut out the Weatherby markup and get a Howa. They’re known to shoot very well. The principal known issue is that bolt stops sometimes break and are a pain the ass to replace.

Sakos and Tikkas are built in the same factory and use the same barrels, so for the money I’d go with a Tikka. The drawback there is that they’re all the same action length so if you’re worried about weight that’s a factor. But they are superbly accurate out of the box and their triggers are perfect. Literally zero them and start hunting.

I’ve had very good luck with the Remington Package Rifles. My 308 shot MOA out of the box with cheap ammo and my 30-06 is almost as good. Triggers need a bit of work but aftermarket support for them is immense. The ones made right before the bankruptcy are considered among the best that Remington has ever built—the blueprinting that’s normally the first step in accurizing one isn’t necessary.

I’d avoid anything ultra-light. They can be hard to shoot well and they kick harder than slightly heavier rifles. Eight pounds loaded, scoped, and with a sling is a very good place to be, so factor in the weight of optics and mounts as you look at the overall weight.

You’re on the right track with common cartridges like the 30-06, 308, and 270. All will take deer and elk, blast and recoil aren’t bad. They’re among the last to run out and the first to return when times get weird like they are now. They’re also not expensive, which matters since you’ll spend more on ammo than on the rifle in the long run. Barrel length should be between 22” and 24”.

Definitely go stainless/synthetic. Factory synthetic stocks are better than you’d think, and paying the upcharge for a Bell & Carlson or HS Precision stock from the factory is not a bad call either. If you plan to upgrade to a top-drawer Bansner or McMillan later on, then definitely get the cheap factory stock for now.

Add a good 2.5-8 or 3-9 variable with an objective bell smaller than about 45mm in field-detachable mounts, zero it at 200 yards with the heaviest bullet that the chosen cartridge will move at 2,700 fps, and go forth.

A rifle like that will handle 99% of all game in North America, won't kick your teeth out, and will be easy to feed. You can add specialized rifles later, but those are best tied to a specific species or set of conditions so get a few hunts under your belt before going down that road.

On a completely separate note, get into a Hunter's Safety Course NOW if you haven’t already. You won't be able to buy a license without it, and classes fill quickly.


Okie John

Awesome response! Thank you! Haven’t seen any Howa available yet. I’ve been looking. Took that course a while back thankfully as it was brutal lol.

I’ll look over tikka and Howa more and see if the Sauer can be had in stainless or cerakote in my price range. They have a great rep from what I’ve seen.

[okie john]

Awesome response! Thank you! Haven’t seen any Howa available yet. I’ve been looking. Took that course a while back thankfully as it was brutal lol.

I’ll look over tikka and Howa more and see if the Sauer can be had in stainless or cerakote in my price range. They have a great rep from what I’ve seen.

Happy to help. Also check out the Mauser M18. It’s my next T&E item.


Okie John

[newyork]

Can you suggest rings for a Leupold 2.5-8 or 3-9? Maybe the 3.5-10? Also, which Tikka do you think? T3x lite or is that too light for 308/3006?

https://www.eurooptic.com/Mauser-M18-270-Win-22-Bbl-Synthetic-5rd-Mag-Bolt-Action-Rifle-M180270-DEMO-Excel.aspx

How’s that?

[okie john]

Can you suggest rings for a Leupold 2.5-8 or 3-9? Maybe the 3.5-10? Also, which Tikka do you think? T3x lite or is that too light for 308/3006?

Lots of folks make great rings. I like a Picatinny rail so I’d get low rings that work with that.

The T3x Lite is light in name only, especially compared to the Kimber Montana or other true lightweights. I think it’s just about perfect for cartridges in the 30-06 class.


Okie John

[newyork]

Excellent! The battue looks good but I think it’s blued. The Mauser is cheap. The Sauer interests me. I like how the prices are lower than $1000 on most of these.

Sorry, I’m clueless, how about the picatinny rail maker/model?

[newyork]

I’m looking to buy at least the rifle by weeks end. Depending on which rifle I get, if it’s not top of my budget, possible I get rifle, rail, rings and scope.

If anyone sees any good deals on good bolts please link em here if you have time.

[Borderland]

308 Vanguard would be my choice on that list. The barrel and action is built by Howa. Not super expensive but high quality. I built a precision rifle using a Howa 1500 and I have no complaints. It can shoot 1 MOA.

The .308 ammo is probably going to be a lot cheaper than 6.5 or even 30-06. You can see that on Ammoseek. Just about anyone who sells ammo will have .308. if any CF rifle ammo is available.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/weatherby-vanguard-synthetic-bolt-action-rifle/p/1269623

[okie john]

I’m looking to buy at least the rifle by weeks end. Depending on which rifle I get, if it’s not top of my budget, possible I get rifle, rail, rings and scope.

If anyone sees any good deals on good bolts please link em here if you have time.

I wouldn’t get in a rush on this. A Google search will find a lot of deals. Also check some local stores. Plenty of great inventory to be had.


Okie John

[newyork]

I hear so much good about them and loved the feel of the high country. I’m wondering if the high country, First lite etc are priced over the vanguard line because of the signature model status.

[cornstalker]

The rifles you mentioned are good choices. I’d also look at the Remington M-700, the Winchester M-70, and the Ruger M-77 Hawkeye at a minimum.

The Weatherbys you mentioned are all Vanguard models, which are built on Howa actions, possibly with Howa barrels, so I’d cut out the Weatherby markup and get a Howa. They’re known to shoot very well. The principal known issue is that bolt stops sometimes break and are a pain the ass to replace.

Sakos and Tikkas are built in the same factory and use the same barrels, so for the money I’d go with a Tikka. The drawback there is that they’re all the same action length so if you’re worried about weight that’s a factor. But they are superbly accurate out of the box and their triggers are perfect. Literally zero them and start hunting.

I’ve had very good luck with the Remington Package Rifles. My 308 shot MOA out of the box with cheap ammo and my 30-06 is almost as good. Triggers need a bit of work but aftermarket support for them is immense. The ones made right before the bankruptcy are considered among the best that Remington has ever built—the blueprinting that’s normally the first step in accurizing one isn’t necessary.

I’d avoid anything ultra-light. They can be hard to shoot well and they kick harder than slightly heavier rifles. Eight pounds loaded, scoped, and with a sling is a very good place to be, so factor in the weight of optics and mounts as you look at the overall weight.

You’re on the right track with common cartridges like the 30-06, 308, and 270. All will take deer and elk, blast and recoil aren’t bad. They’re among the last to run out and the first to return when times get weird like they are now. They’re also not expensive, which matters since you’ll spend more on ammo than on the rifle in the long run. Barrel length should be between 22” and 24”.

Definitely go stainless/synthetic. Factory synthetic stocks are better than you’d think, and paying the upcharge for a Bell & Carlson or HS Precision stock from the factory is not a bad call either. If you plan to upgrade to a top-drawer Bansner or McMillan later on, then definitely get the cheap factory stock for now.

Add a good 2.5-8 or 3-9 variable with an objective bell smaller than about 45mm in field-detachable mounts, zero it at 200 yards with the heaviest bullet that the chosen cartridge will move at 2,700 fps, and go forth.

A rifle like that will handle 99% of all game in North America, won't kick your teeth out, and will be easy to feed. You can add specialized rifles later, but those are best tied to a specific species or set of conditions so get a few hunts under your belt before going down that road.

On a completely separate note, get into a Hunter's Safety Course NOW if you haven’t already. You won't be able to buy a license without it, and classes fill quickly.


Okie John

Great post indeed. I agree on nearly all counts.

My daughter's 6.5 Creedmoor is a Howa and that thing is a copper mine. As is every Savage my wife and I have ever owned, eight in total. The Howa is a good shooter, but feels cheap in fit and finish. My Savages were all shooters too. I would personally spend more and skip the Howa based on my singular experience. I would spend the same and skip the Savage based on multiple experiences. You can, however, have the barrel lapped if you end up with a copper mine.

I own and have owned quite a few M700's and have only had one bad one. It was an M700 LVSF in .22-250. Two M77's before the Hawkeye days but post tang safety. Both great. 3 M70's, 2 bad (Super Shadows), and one good. As much as I wanted to like a T3 Lite in .270 Win, I couldn't like shooting it and sold it off.

Always wanted a Sako, but never had one.

Just my opinion.

[newyork]

I wouldn’t get in a rush on this. A Google search will find a lot of deals. Also check some local stores. Plenty of great inventory to be had.


Okie John

Checked 2 shops. Any others are really far. One shop has a Steyr scout and a bull bbl Howa which was too heavy. He has some savages I’m not into.

The other one had Christiansen, weatherby in 300 Weatherby, bull bbl tikka 308, 2 boat anchor Bergara, a $1500 m70 in camo and the JP Sauer. So far my favorite 3 were the weatherby if it were in a better cal, the Sauer and the Steyr. The tikka felt fantastic but it had a bull bbl.

[newyork]

Great post indeed. I agree on nearly all counts.

My daughter's 6.5 Creedmoor is a Howa and that thing is a copper mine. As is every Savage my wife and I have ever owned, eight in total. The Howa is a good shooter, but feels cheap in fit and finish. My Savages were all shooters too. I would personally spend more and skip the Howa based on my singular experience. I would spend the same and skip the Savage based on multiple experiences. You can, however, have the barrel lapped if you end up with a copper mine.

I own and have owned quite a few M700's and have only had one bad one. It was an M700 LVSF in .22-250. Two M77's before the Hawkeye days but post tang safety. Both great. 3 M70's, 2 bad (Super Shadows), and one good. As much as I wanted to like a T3 Lite in .270 Win, I couldn't like shooting it and sold it off.

Always wanted a Sako, but never had one.

Just my opinion.

What manufacturer have you settled on and like most?

Any Sauer experience?

[cornstalker]

I use Talley lightweights on my hunting rifles. Keeps the scope lower than pic rail mounts and I have yet to have a scope move in them. I have also not had a set where they were not aligned when bolted on and have not had to line ream or lap them. (which Talley does not recommend anyways)

I will post a pic here in a bit.

[OlongJohnson]

The rifles you mentioned are good choices. I’d also look at the Remington M-700, the Winchester M-70, and the Ruger M-77 Hawkeye at a minimum.

The Weatherbys you mentioned are all Vanguard models, which are built on Howa actions, possibly with Howa barrels, so I’d cut out the Weatherby markup and get a Howa. They’re known to shoot very well. The principal known issue is that bolt stops sometimes break and are a pain the ass to replace.

Sakos and Tikkas are built in the same factory and use the same barrels, so for the money I’d go with a Tikka. The drawback there is that they’re all the same action length so if you’re worried about weight that’s a factor. But they are superbly accurate out of the box and their triggers are perfect. Literally zero them and start hunting.

A .308 Howa recently sold after about five months on consignment at the LGS. Was unfired, in a Vanguard S2 stock, with two boxes of Fed blue box soft point ammo for $575 plus tax. That would work pretty darned well for what you're describing. The bolt stop screw is the only real wart on them, and it can be fixed by replacing the screw with a shoulder bushing and a real grade 12.9 socket head cap screw. I like Howas, but my last one (.223) is for sale as I thin the safe.

I'm keeping the Tikkas. They are lighter, have better triggers, reputation for even better accuracy, I like the factory stocks better, I like the detachable mags, plus a few other reasons. The T3x stocks have interchangeable grips that are pretty inexpensive. You might really like the more vertical "pistol grip." I wish the cheek pieces were less expensive.

This is my preferred ring setup: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25496-Tikka-Scope-Ring-Question&p=627816&viewfull=1#post627816 It doesn't allow for setting up large vertical offsets for super long range, but for the range you're talking about, you don't need that. It's as beefy and secure as anything. A ring that requires throwing away any work done to level the scope and get everything all dialed in in order to separate the optic from the rifle is a non-starter for me. That means anything where the rings are held to the receiver by screws that can't be accessed without removing the optic from the ring clamps is a no-go. Detachable with reliable return to zero is a must-have. I like connecting directly to a dovetail milled into the receiver, rather than clamping to something that's held on with little screws. It also allows the scope to be mounted very low.

I view the one-size action length on Tikkas as a feature, not a bug. The short actions are still lighter than most other rifles, especially in the price range. The bolt stops can be trimmed and the spacer at the back of the magazines can be any thickness you want it to be, so they are the perfect solution for in-between calibers like 6mm Rem AI, .257-6.5 AI or .284 Winchester, where the case is a bit longer than a .308 case and when loaded with long bullets, they don't fit in standard short-action mags well. I haven't built any of those yet, but if I ever decide I've shot out one of my Tikkas, I'll get a pre-fit barrel in one of those calibers. Even in a standard cartridge like the 6.5 "Manbun," it buys you a little more space for the longest bullets if you want to play that way.

I'm not in the market for any more bolt guns, but I can't really sell myself on anything but a Tikka for all-around use.


I wouldn’t get in a rush on this. A Google search will find a lot of deals. Also check some local stores. Plenty of great inventory to be had.

^^^This.

gun.deals is a good web site.

[LJP]

Figured I might chime in with something I haven’t seen mentioned yet... my primary hunting bolt gun is a Browning AB3 Stalker in 6.5 Creedmoor. I got the micro version since I’m short statured. I topped it with a Leupold VX3i 2.5-8 in Talley one piece rings. It’s a shooter and it doesn’t beat me up. I’ve taken a few white tails with it and have been very pleased with the gun. It’s not quite as nice as my original A-Bolt II Stainless Stalker in .30-06, but I wanted something that didn’t kick quite as hard. I can’t speak to the ammo availability right now, so that might be a sticking point. I have 60 rounds of Hornady Precision Hunter ammo squirreled away, so as a strictly hunting season rifle, I should be good to go until the ammo drought lets up.

[cornstalker]

What manufacturer have you settled on and like most?

Any Sauer experience?

Zero experience with Sauer. Always wanted an SSG, but never got around to it.

I currently own, (including the wife and kids), Howa, Ruger, Browning, Savage, Remington and Bergara. I prefer the Bergaras above all others. I hate chasing a load for a finicky rifle. I am either really lucky or the Bergaras are the least finicky rifles I have ever bought, including custom guns. Bergara barrels are essentially honed as the rifling is cut. They have an awesome interior finish that rivals a lapped barrel.

Bergara B14 HMR in .22-250, the first load tried. 1.627" group at 402 yards.

68158

Bergara B14 Ridge. 7mm Rem Mag, 162 ELDx over H1000. One run through a Satterlee ladder to find a node. Picked a load from within the node and loaded a few. This was the last two shots I had with me fired at a steel plate at 905 yards.

68159

[Borderland]

Even in a standard cartridge like the 6.5 "Manbun," it buys you a little more space for the longest bullets if you want to play that way.

Is that the new Hornady cartridge I've read so much about?

[OlongJohnson]

Checked 2 shops. Any others are really far. One shop has a Steyr scout and a bull bbl Howa which was too heavy. He has some savages I’m not into.

The other one had Christiansen, weatherby in 300 Weatherby, bull bbl tikka 308, 2 boat anchor Bergara, a $1500 m70 in camo and the JP Sauer. So far my favorite 3 were the weatherby if it were in a better cal, the Sauer and the Steyr. The tikka felt fantastic but it had a bull bbl.

Looking in local shops is your problem. I'm all for supporting local businesses, but I can't really justify paying 30-50 percent more or limiting myself to the slim pickings on the shelves where I happen to live to do so. Go on Gun Broker or gun.deals and find the best deal nationally, get it shipped to an FFL near you for the transfer. I don't think I've seen an FFL that won't do a transfer, but it does pay to shop around on transfer fees. There are a couple FFLs near here who realize that they really just can't compete with the universe of online selling, either in price for common stuff or selection and availability of more unusual stuff. Let the customer spend the hours searching and finding the deal. They are perfectly happy to take $15-20 for a few minutes of paperwork with zero inventory overheads, and the vast majority of entries in their bound books are things that they never owned.

[OlongJohnson]

Is that the new Hornady cartridge I've read so much about?

Lost River had a whole thread about his new Tikka so chambered in the past year or so.

[cornstalker]

In regards to mounts, here are a couple of pics of Talleys. I guess I am not totally sure that there are not pic rail combos out there that would get it just as low. I personally hate having a one-piece mount on a hunting rifle. I don't like them hovering near the ejection port, even when shaped around it.

Bergaras with Talleys

68160

68162

I did forget when I made my first post about the Talleys, that one of my mountain rifles came from the factory with the holes drilled in a pattern that is not in line with the bore axis. I could not use Talleys on this without re-drilling and tapping the receiver because Talley does not recommend lapping or line reaming. On it, I used dual dovetail bases with Burris Signature rings with the Posi-align bushings to mount the Cabela's branded Meopta Meostar. So far it has held up fine through a number of hunts.

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[Duelist]

A standard bolt action in a standard hunting caliber with a variable scope ranging from 2 or 3x on the bottom to 7-10x on the top is such a generally useful, efficient, and effective tool that you should definitely have one. Or two or three, for that matter.

I have two currently: my first, a Savage 11 in .243 Win. Works, wasn’t too expensive to get or set up. Bolt is smoother functioning than any Remington 700 Express I’ve handled or fired, but clunky and awkward feeling compared directly to a Tikka, an older 700 BDL, or my new favorite (and second centerfire hunting rifle I’ve owned rather than borrowed) Winchester M70 in .270 Winchester. Both have 3-9x scopes that weren’t too expensive, and will shoot 1” or better groups reliably with the right bullets, 1.5-2” groups with less liked loads. Talley one piece rings are on the Winchester at the suggestion of GJM, and have worked beautifully. Burris Signature Zee are on the Savage, no complaints.

.243 is better as a deer/coyote/groundhog rifle than as a deer/bear/elk/moose rifle. .270 kicks quite a bit more, but can be downloaded and still be effective on deer and coyotes, with the elk and other large animals not being too much for it with stouter loads.

.308 is generally a safe and effective choice, as well.

[newyork]

The 2 Bergara at the shop were very nice. It’s too bad they were heavy as hell. Is there a model that is a hunting set up from them that isn’t heavy and doesn’t have a blued bbl ?

[cornstalker]

The 2 Bergara at the shop were very nice. It’s too bad they were heavy as hell. Is there a model that is a hunting set up from them that isn’t heavy and doesn’t have a blued bbl ?

The Ridge and the Hunter are in the 7.1 to 7.9 range. That is about where you wanted to be to mitigate recoil, isn't it? Mine are cerakoted, not blued.

Side note. Stainless rifles are great, but I have had mine bead blasted to matte because they were so damn shiny.

[newyork]

Both of those models look fantastic.

[Shotgun]

I don't see it mentioned here--

NewYork, do you have any friends who are hunters? If so, it might be nice for you to actually shoot a caliber or two before you buy.

Just me, but I would not do anything other than 30-06 or .270 for a first hunting rifle. Why? Here begins a very short story. NewYork buys his first rifle, gets it scoped, and then finds out he really enjoys hunting. He starts planning trips here and there, including places where he might spend a few nights out in the boonies. One of these trips NewYork get to the lease, or the camp, or wherever his bedroll is going to be and discovers he has no ammunition. He swore he packed everything but then recalls after the recent trip to the range he left his cartridges on the work bench at the house (or on top of the refrigerator in the garage, the kitchen table, or wherever else one might leave a box of ammo). Well dang. It's at least a 30 minute drive into the nearest town that only has one store that sells just a bit of everything: hardware, clothes, yard tools, lumber, fried burritos, and bait and tackle, including live minnows. Luckily, this place also sells ammunition. At a place like this, you have a decent chance of finding 30-06 and .270.

[newyork]

I have a couple. I’ve shot 308 and .17hmr bolts only. Oh, and I think a 300WM (not great hahaha). The 308 was a breeze. I don’t have any local buddies with a 3006 other than a Garand. I like your thinking though.

[newyork]

I just checked Bergara. Wilderness hunter is $800 on GB. Ridge was $1000. Neither come in 3006 but they do in 308, 6.5 creed, 6.5 prc, 300 wm and I think 300 prc? Maybe.

[MickAK]

I don't see it mentioned here--

NewYork, do you have any friends who are hunters? If so, it might be nice for you to actually shoot a caliber or two before you buy.

Just me, but I would not do anything other than 30-06 or .270 for a first hunting rifle. Why? Here begins a very short story. NewYork buys his first rifle, gets it scoped, and then finds out he really enjoys hunting. He starts planning trips here and there, including places where he might spend a few nights out in the boonies. One of these trips NewYork get to the lease, or the camp, or wherever his bedroll is going to be and discovers he has no ammunition. He swore he packed everything but then recalls after the recent trip to the range he left his cartridges on the work bench at the house (or on top of the refrigerator in the garage, the kitchen table, or wherever else one might leave a box of ammo). Well dang. It's at least a 30 minute drive into the nearest town that only has one store that sells just a bit of everything: hardware, clothes, yard tools, lumber, fried burritos, and bait and tackle, including live minnows. Luckily, this place also sells ammunition. At a place like this, you have a decent chance of finding 30-06 and .270.

Lately, 6.5 CM has been as common as 30-06 in those sorts of stores when I look. Well, lately meaning before the drought but still. I think the list of commonly available in a bait/tire/gas store ammunition should be updated.

[okie john]

The 308 and 30-06 are basically twins.


Okie John

[ACP230]

I favor the Ruger 77, or 77RL.

The RL I have weighs 6.5 pounds with scope and sling.
Very accurate until the barrel heats up.
Does not get as heavy at the end of the day as my other
rifles do.

[Paul D]

This is the rifle I'm taking hunting this summer. Tikka T3x in 30-06. It has a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 mm BRH scope. It weighs 7.7 lbs as seen below. I have both 3 and 5 round magazines of it. I installed the vertical pistol grip for it. It shoots 0.66" groups with my handload (Barnes TTSX 180 gr. over 56.8 gr of H4350 @ about 2815 fps). Barnes Vortex 180 gr TTSX factory ammo is about 0.79" and comes out at 2760 fps.The whole package cost me $1300. I shoot mainly standing with shooting sticks and crouching. It is comfortable to shoot but feel that minor thump. I have a .308 version with a lighter optic and it thumps less.

68169

[newyork]

That’s a fantastic set up right there

[okie john]

That’s a fantastic set up right there

Yes, it is. You could do far worse than copying it to the last detail.


Okie John

[cornstalker]

The .30-06 is 100-200 FPS faster than a .308 Winchester in the heavier bullet weights. That matters at longer ranges.

[newyork]

Maybe this is nutty but I just found a Bergara Wilderness Ridge with Omni Brake for $850. 300 Win Mag. It’s available in 308 but I didn’t see it on GB. Probably similar price if it is.

[okie john]

The .30-06 is 100-200 FPS faster than a .308 Winchester in the heavier bullet weights. That matters at longer ranges.

Yes, but only if you handload and even then you need a 24” barrel. I’ve clocked a lot of factory 308 and 30-06 factory loads. Many 30-06/180-grain factory loads chug along a bit north of 2,600. Plenty of 308/180 factory loads will do that.

The varieties of high-velocity 30-06 in 180- and 165-grain weights that I’ve tested are indeed faster than standard loads but they’re solid 3 MOA performers.

200-grain factory loads for both are non-existent. 30-06/220 is 2,350-2,400 fps in a 24” barrel. And even if you hit some magic number you may not get usable long-range accuracy. So for the starting-out hunter who relies on factory ammo, they’re twins.


Okie John

[cornstalker]

Yes, but only if you handload and even then you need a 24” barrel. I’ve clocked a lot of factory 308 and 30-06 factory loads. Many 30-06/180-grain factory loads chug along a bit north of 2,600. Plenty of 308/180 factory loads will do that.

The varieties of high-velocity 30-06 in 180- and 165-grain weights that I’ve tested are indeed faster than standard loads but they’re solid 3 MOA performers.

200-grain factory loads for both are non-existent. 30-06/220 is 2,350-2,400 fps in a 24” barrel. And even if you hit some magic number you may not get usable long-range accuracy. So for the starting-out hunter who relies on factory ammo, they’re twins.


Okie John

I see your point. As a handloader I had not considered it from that perspective. Thank you.

[Lost River]

This is the rifle I'm taking hunting this summer. Tikka T3x in 30-06. It has a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 mm BRH scope. It weighs 7.7 lbs as seen below. I have both 3 and 5 round magazines of it. I installed the vertical pistol grip for it. It shoots 0.66" groups with my handload (Barnes TTSX 180 gr. over 56.8 gr of H4350 @ about 2815 fps). Barnes Vortex 180 gr TTSX factory ammo is about 0.79" and comes out at 2760 fps.The whole package cost me $1300. I shoot mainly standing with shooting sticks and crouching. It is comfortable to shoot but feel that minor thump. I have a .308 version with a lighter optic and it thumps less.

68169


That’s a fantastic set up right there


Yes, it is. You could do far worse than copying it to the last detail.


Okie John

Too funny.

I was thinking that New York could choose to duplicate Paul D's setup, right down to the load. He could hunt everything in North America from coyotes to bears, elk and moose, to mule deer, you name it and he would never have to change a thing. Then I scrolled down and saw Okie John's comment about copying it and literally chuckled.

That same thing holds true with my Tikka T3 .308 and 155 Scenar handload. Everything I punch with them tips over dead, and it makes things easy. While I still fiddle with other cartridges such as the 6.5 Manbun (as previously mentioned), and the .300 WM, there is absolutely no doubt that I could do it all with just a .308 and that one load.

No matter if you choose a .308 or .30-06, either are going to suit your purpose just fine. Pick a good all purpose load, similar in fashion to what Paul D did and stock up on it in bulk, or learn to handload.

While some of the other brands have appealing features, I really think the Tikkas make a bunch of sense, as they are like the Glock 19s of the rifle world. Reliable and accurate, they are pretty much ready to go right out of the box.

As far as scopes, that is very much dependent on your environment. A 3x15 SWFA would cover both close up eastern type hunting on the low end, and longer range opportunities on the upper end of the magnification scale.

Plus they track well and are repeatable.

To recap: I suggest a Tikka T3 30-06 or .308. w/ an SWFA optic. (unless you want to splurge for a NF)

CHEERS!

[newyork]

Does sound like a damn good set up. I can’t do a NF. Lol. I wish! I’ve got probably $1500 tops for all included. That tikka set up and another I learned of in 7mm-08 sound good.

I started going down the rabbit hole on a Bergara Wilderness Ridge with Omni brake in .300 win Mag thinking it’d be a beast but I’d never have to move up to anything from there and the Bergaras seem to be quite nice and sturdy.

Thoughts?

[Lost River]

While I am a big fan of the .300 win mag and it is by far my favorite magnum rifle cartridge, I definitely would not want one as an all around rifle. The 30-06 would be at the top end of the scale. The .308 would be in the middle and the 6.5 Creedmoor at the bottom.

You need to be able to actually go out and shoot your rifle frequently, and doing that with a .300WM is not pleasant. Both in terms of recoil and monetarily. Speaking of recoil, I don't know anyone who shoots a hard kicking rifle better than they shoot a soft kicking rifle. 300WMs are not the kind of rifle that you sit down at the range and put 40 rounds through from various practical field positions, and consider it enjoyable. You can do that with a .308.

A .308 and 30-06 will cleanly kill any big game animal in North America. I doubt there are any major species that have not been taken with either cartridge. If I was to grab one of my rifles out of my safe as my "One Gun" it not be a 300 win mag. A 30-06 or .308 would be a far better choice.

[newyork]

Well stated. I believe the same gun is made in 308.

So I’ve got tikka in 308 and 30-06
Bergara in 308


On my list so far.

[OlongJohnson]

...I really think the Tikkas make a bunch of sense, as they are like the Glock 19s of the rifle world. Reliable and accurate, they are pretty much ready to go right out of the box.

That's ultimately why the Howas went down the road. Needing to redo the bolt stop for each one. Plus, I haven't found a stock that really beds the receiver nicely without inducing excess stress on it that doesn't also double the price of the rifle. So a bedding project for each one, too. Already discussed scope mount preferences.

Remingtons may be OK, but might have to be rebuilt in order to work.

I haven't had any CF Savages, but I have a FV-SR that was a massive suck of time and money to get where I wanted it. I kinda wanna buy a 16.5-inch T1x, but it's basically the same thing as my Savage. I could have saved a lot of trouble with the Savage if the T1x had existed back then.

The Ruger M77 I had was much like a GP100. Hell for tough and heavy for what it was. I'm sure it would have been possible to make it slick, but it would have taken diving in and an unknown amount of work to get there. Also, I ended up with three, not two, factory rings, due to one of the originals having jacked up threads. The inside of the rings that held the scope tubes appeared to be as-cast, and would certainly have marked the heck out of a tube if not creating actual mechanical damage. I regarded them all as unusable without lapping, possibly starting with reaming. Leupold makes some nice alternatives.

I have no experience with Bergara-branded rifles. I really like my CVA Scout takedown in .300 BLK (made by Bergara), but it has significant room for improvement in fit and finish. I bought a Warne rail because I didn't really like the one that comes with it. For an accurate $350 backpack rifle, I can get over all of that. I assume the higher-end stuff is nicer. I keep having to talk myself out of getting the .44 Magnum version of the Scout. If they made a .45 Auto version with a 16.5-in threaded barrel, I'd be on it like a fat kid on cake.

I haven't figured out anything a Tikka needs other than mounting an optic and maybe making sure the action screws are torqued for best accuracy. Heck, that even puts it ahead of the USP in my experience.

[newyork]

Someone keeps telling me the sako a7 is the better gun for $900. The one in particular is 6.5. I’m wondering why one is better or worse than the other between the a7 and t3x lite

[okie john]

It shoots 0.66" groups with my handload (Barnes TTSX 180 gr. over 56.8 gr of H4350 @ about 2815 fps). Barnes Vortex 180 gr TTSX factory ammo is about 0.79" and comes out at 2760 fps.

This is the 30-06 acting like the 300 Holland & Holland of about 20 years ago.


Okie John

[newyork]

For whatever reason I’m not finding a Tikka T3X lite stainless in 308 or 30-06 in stock anywhere.

Can’t find any 308 wilderness ridge Bergara either. Mostly the regular blued hunter and their heavyweight rifles and their wilderness series in calibers I’m not going after.

I also see a couple years ago Bergara had some qc issues. Idk if resolved but it seems they have had a great rep the past couple years.

There I was settled on the Bergara in 300wM. Now I’m lost again haha.

[okie john]

For whatever reason I’m not finding a Tikka T3X lite stainless in 308 or 30-06 in stock anywhere.

Patience, Grasshopper. It will be worth the wait.


Okie John

[Rick R]

Looking at your original post, if you’re mainly going to hunt eastern whitetail deer it would be hard to go wrong with a .308 bolt gun with a good quality 3-9X scope. I’ve been happy with rifles from Ruger, Remington and Winchester that were so chambered. Here where I live I’ve taken to using either a 1-4x or fixed 2.5x scope because shots are rarely more than 75 yards but 3-9x works too. I said I’d worry about carrying a lightweight rifle after I lost 20 pounds. I lost nearly 40 and now don’t think my rifles are heavy.

.308 ammo (and its older brother the 30-06) is usually plentiful and cheap, effective and shootable. If you think you’ll eventually go somewhere exotic and shoot something bigger then I’d suggest choosing a .308/.30-06 bolt rifle that offers a .300 or .338 magnum (or larger) option with the same controls and optics. Shoot the .308 for fun and venison then when you decide you like it buy a more powerful clone. Really there isn’t anything on the planet you couldn’t legally kill with a pair of rifles in .308 and .375 H&H, and probably find ammo if the baggage gorilla loses your ammo.

[newyork]

That makes a heck of a lot of sense. Now to only find a 308 model in stock.

Another I found but it’s too much is the Winchester model 70 Extreme Tue Timber VSX MB. A mouth full. I think it’s like $350 over budget.

I still wouldn’t scoff at an in stock tikka 308, or a weatherby high country, badlands or first lite. Bergara wilderness Ridge. The Sako A7 was available in 308 but its vaporware now, only see it in 6.5 creedmoor.

[newyork]

So, if I’m not doing 300 WM, but want to still keep Bergara in the running, I won’t need the brake the wilderness ridge has. It’d be nice but not needed nearly as much with 308 as opposed to 300. I also won’t need the extra weight. There’s a wilderness Hunter that’s $799. It’s like 7.1lbs. Cerakoted bbl and and such. .308. Sounds good. Down the road, like you said, if I go on western trips I could pick up the wilderness ridge with brake in 300.

[newyork]

Browning is another. Always forget to look at them.

Is the creedmoor enough? Is it common enough or cheap enough would be my other questions.

[OlongJohnson]

It's about 0.8 lb heavier than a Tikka, but that may be OK helping with recoil. NY doesn't have the Rocky Mountains in it. I'd still prefer a Tikka for reasons previously elaborated, but if you have to do this right now, the Bergara would likely be a very good rifle.

I'd read up on Bergara's soft touch and how well it lasts. Some manufacturers have had durability issues with soft touch stock finishes.

[newyork]

Doesn’t have to be Bergara. Money won’t be here til mid or late week. I want to make the right move despite wishing it could happen now.

The sako in 6.5 was more tempting before but I’m thinking maybe stick to 308/06.

[Paul D]

EuroOptics has a Sauer 100 Classic XT .30-06 Rifle for $800, a Mauser M18 in 6.5 Creedmoor for $550, a Tikka T3x Lite Compact 6.5 Creedmoor 24.3" for $700 and a Sako A7 Big Game 6.5 Creedmoor 24.4" 1:8" Fluted Barrel Rifle w/Roughtech Stock for $900 (https://www.eurooptic.com/rifles.aspx?q=NjYwZGE1YTgtMGJlOC00OTdiLWIzMDAtYjc4 ZjAwYTE1ZTcy_MQ__MjcwMjQ5MTAtZWIxYS00YWZlLWJkYTUtM 2M0OGEwMWI3NDc1_ODQ1ZmZmOTgtMDI1OS00YzJmLWIzMDQtYm I5MWI0ZDU1NTIz__ZjcwN2RjNzYtYmZkMy00NmFlLTgzN2ItNz RlNDNlNmE0YzI0_YjY4MGFmNjEtZDA0MS00ZTMzLWI5NjMtMjE wYTY5Y2RiMDVm__ZjcwN2RjNzYtYmZkMy00NmFlLTgzN2ItNzR lNDNlNmE0YzI0_ZjU1OWJhYTEtNmNhYS00N2E2LThmYTgtYjc5 YWU5M2VlNjBk__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3 MGE1ZDEyNDM1_YjBmYWQzM2EtNGE1Yi00MzZlLWE0OTAtZjViO Dc2OTE2NjQw__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3M GE1ZDEyNDM1_OGYzMWI4MjQtODI2Mi00NjI3LWEyYjUtNDFmZT Y5ODczOTE1__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3MG E1ZDEyNDM1_MmY3YzQzMzktOWJjMC00ODdhLTg0MTItMWQyODU 2OWJjZmVl__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3MGE 1ZDEyNDM1_ZmNiMDQzOGEtYWU5ZS00NzM0LTg1MjAtZDAyNjk1 MGY4MjMw&o=3&p=1&i=48&d=48&h=901.58).

They also have a Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10x40 HSR-4 Riflescope (https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-1558-Razor-HD-LH-2-10x40-Riflescope-with-HSR-4---RZR-155.aspx) on close out sale for $430 (normally its about $799).

[BigT]

My go to bolt gun is a CZ550 in 7x64mm. Shoots everything Ive tried straight while still having a soul without costing the earth.

7x64 is of course the greatest plains game catridge in the world and this one has worked well on everything from Impala to Blue Wildebeest which are famously tough AF. It's also the rifle I grabbed when a croc hunt became a reality recently. I understand that ammo is an issue for these there, so I would likely build US battery around a 270 or a 6.5 Vegan.

Scope wise mine runs a Noblix 2-12×50 which covers me for any shots I'm likely to take.

[newyork]

EuroOptics has a Sauer 100 Classic XT .30-06 Rifle for $800, a Mauser M18 in 6.5 Creedmoor for $550, a Tikka T3x Lite Compact 6.5 Creedmoor 24.3" for $700 and a Sako A7 Big Game 6.5 Creedmoor 24.4" 1:8" Fluted Barrel Rifle w/Roughtech Stock for $900 (https://www.eurooptic.com/rifles.aspx?q=NjYwZGE1YTgtMGJlOC00OTdiLWIzMDAtYjc4 ZjAwYTE1ZTcy_MQ__MjcwMjQ5MTAtZWIxYS00YWZlLWJkYTUtM 2M0OGEwMWI3NDc1_ODQ1ZmZmOTgtMDI1OS00YzJmLWIzMDQtYm I5MWI0ZDU1NTIz__ZjcwN2RjNzYtYmZkMy00NmFlLTgzN2ItNz RlNDNlNmE0YzI0_YjY4MGFmNjEtZDA0MS00ZTMzLWI5NjMtMjE wYTY5Y2RiMDVm__ZjcwN2RjNzYtYmZkMy00NmFlLTgzN2ItNzR lNDNlNmE0YzI0_ZjU1OWJhYTEtNmNhYS00N2E2LThmYTgtYjc5 YWU5M2VlNjBk__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3 MGE1ZDEyNDM1_YjBmYWQzM2EtNGE1Yi00MzZlLWE0OTAtZjViO Dc2OTE2NjQw__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3M GE1ZDEyNDM1_OGYzMWI4MjQtODI2Mi00NjI3LWEyYjUtNDFmZT Y5ODczOTE1__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3MG E1ZDEyNDM1_MmY3YzQzMzktOWJjMC00ODdhLTg0MTItMWQyODU 2OWJjZmVl__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3MGE 1ZDEyNDM1_ZmNiMDQzOGEtYWU5ZS00NzM0LTg1MjAtZDAyNjk1 MGY4MjMw&o=3&p=1&i=48&d=48&h=901.58).

They also have a Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10x40 HSR-4 Riflescope (https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-1558-Razor-HD-LH-2-10x40-Riflescope-with-HSR-4---RZR-155.aspx) on close out sale for $430 (normally its about $799).

The sako right there is the one I was talking about. I was dead set on it for a few days and started questioning it. That T3x is cheap! Those Sauer are for sale in 6.5 for $600 at Standard Mfg. Mauser is nice and cheap too!

I kind of got the impression I should pass on 6.5 from PF. No one said it but if pushing for 06 and 308 I kind of thought maybe I should skip 6.5.

Am I wrong? If 6.5 is as smart as the other 2 it opens up a lot.

[newyork]

Unfortunately the Sauer is blued. To get cerakote they up the price a little. They have a Cherokee model and a atacama model. The gun feels great, 60 degrees throw and slick. The stock is like 14.5 LOP though and a little long for me I’d imagine with lots of clothes. In a sweatshirt it was all good. Liked it a lot in the store.

Here’s their cera tech version for sale

https://www.precisionoptics.net/category_s/701.htm

How does the Mauser stack up?

Bergara has lots of 6.5 available too.

Bet that tikka is sweet.

When I told Europtic I wanted a sub $1000 rifle, they suggested one gun. The sako in 6.5. Never felt one though, but from what I understand it’s normally $1200

[newyork]

That vortex is the one I was going to go with. My buddy scared me and said he’s seen so many go down from vortex. That and I constantly here the saying “vortex has an amazing warranty and you will definitely use it”. It’s about perfect in specs.

[newyork]

Sauer 100 seems to get great reviews. There was some skepticism on whether the bbl is threaded or press fit but it looks like all 100 bbls are threaded to the receiver.

One issue I’ve seen in 2 reviews is that while cycling, you can accidentally turn in the 3 position safety while wearing gloves.

[kjr_29]

My go to bolt gun is a CZ550 in 7x64mm. Shoots everything Ive tried straight while still having a soul without costing the earth.

+1 on the CZ 550. Solid lifetime hunting rifle.

I like .270 Win for a ubiquitous caliber choice, it has served me very well on Pronghorn and Mule deer. Fast and flat, every major US ammo maker manufactures their top tier lines with a .270 option, lot of variety to work with. 30-06 is my other choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[newyork]

Wood and blue is beautiful but scares me. Nothing like the look of those 2 things.

[newyork]

https://www.eurooptic.com/Mauser-M18-270-Win-22-Bbl-Synthetic-5rd-Mag-Bolt-Action-Rifle-M180270-DEMO-Excel.aspx

6.5 isn’t off the table yet but it might be soon. Sounds great but it’s not as ubiquitous as the 308, 270 and 30-06.

[OlongJohnson]

6.5 was still on the shelf at the nearby Academy when all the .30 cal stuff was gone. That was at least six months ago, so you probably can't get anything there today unless you go by the morning after the truck makes its delivery.

[newyork]

One of my 2 local guys had 308 and only enough 6.5 to give out 40rds and only if you bought a 6.5 gun from them.

[Lost River]

The sako right there is the one I was talking about. I was dead set on it for a few days and started questioning it. That T3x is cheap! Those Sauer are for sale in 6.5 for $600 at Standard Mfg. Mauser is nice and cheap too!

I kind of got the impression I should pass on 6.5 from PF. No one said it but if pushing for 06 and 308 I kind of thought maybe I should skip 6.5.

Am I wrong? If 6.5 is as smart as the other 2 it opens up a lot.

Though I have now killed 2 elk with mine, I still think it is a little on the light side of things. There has lately been a race to push the envelope to see how small a cartridge hunters can use to kill very large game. There are many success stories about guys using 6.5 CMs on elk, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there are also a whole bunch of instances where guys took shots beyond their personal abilities and the cartridges' abilities, due to the massive hype the industry has put forth about the little round. Those are the stories that they are not putting on the internet, The ones where the wounded elk went over the next ridge with a tiny bullet in their guts to die a slow miserable death, due to people shooting beyond abilities.

The 6.5 cm is a great round, but if you read up on it, you will find that many believe that they can replace a .300 win mag simply because the wind bucking ballistic coefficient numbers can be similar. Yes, due to the high BC numbers of the better bullets, they put up some good numbers, but they still are a tiny little bullet and when compared to the bullet of a good .300 wm load, they just don't compare when you get out there at extended distances. But there are guys on the net that will tell you that the 6.5 CM is an 800 yard elk rifle. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. They certainly can hit the elk, but making clean kills, getting complete broad side penetration is a whole other story.

Personally I think the thing many leave out of the equation is the elk. They deserve a quick clean death. Not an ugly all day, multi day, painful one. Trying to show how small you can go, I believe is some sort of ego thing. There is a clown over on the Rokslide forum who (aside from being a serious BS'r and pathological liar) who has convinced a great many people he is some sort of firearms, hunting and ammunition expert. He goes by the handle Formidilosus. He used to hang out on the 24 hour campfire but rarely pokes his head around there anymore due to getting called out on his ridiculous tall tales. But he has a BUNCH of people convinced that the .223 is a perfectly viable elk cartridge. He has fooled enough people over the years that there are guys going out and buying .223s just to hunt elk with. As far as I can tell the guy has only ever killed one elk in his entire life, but he makes it sound like he is an SME on all things related to elk hunting. Anyways, elk deserve a clean quick death and while a 6.5 is absolutely capable of doing that within a certain range, I think most guys would be better off with a little larger cartridge.

Just my thoughts.

[newyork]

These are my fears too and why I’m gravitating toward 308, 270, 06 and 300 WM. Unfortunately most available guns I’m seeing are in 6.5 or 300wm.

So far what’s appealing (as the list keeps growing and shrinking) ;

Bergara wilderness hunter or wilderness ridge in 308 or 300
Mauser M18 in 308 or 06
Weatherby Meateater, first lite or high country in 308 or 30-06
Tikka T3x in 270, 308 or 06
Sauer Ceratech in 30-06 or 308

[cornstalker]

Though I have now killed 2 elk with mine, I still think it is a little on the light side of things. There has lately been a race to push the envelope to see how small a cartridge hunters can use to kill very large game. There are many success stories about guys using 6.5 CMs on elk, but I have a sneaking suspicion that there are also a whole bunch of instances where guys took shots beyond their personal abilities and the cartridges' abilities, due to the massive hype the industry has put forth about the little round. Those are the stories that they are not putting on the internet, The ones where the wounded elk went over the next ridge with a tiny bullet in their guts to die a slow miserable death, due to people shooting beyond abilities.

The 6.5 cm is a great round, but if you read up on it, you will find that many believe that they can replace a .300 win mag simply because the wind bucking ballistic coefficient numbers can be similar. Yes, due to the high BC numbers of the better bullets, they put up some good numbers, but they still are a tiny little bullet and when compared to the bullet of a good .300 wm load, they just don't compare when you get out there at extended distances. But there are guys on the net that will tell you that the 6.5 CM is an 800 yard elk rifle. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. They certainly can hit the elk, but making clean kills, getting complete broad side penetration is a whole other story.

Personally I think the thing many leave out of the equation is the elk. They deserve a quick clean death. Not an ugly all day, multi day, painful one. Trying to show how small you can go, I believe is some sort of ego thing. There is a clown over on the Rokslide forum who (aside from being a serious BS'r and pathological liar) who has convinced a great many people he is some sort of firearms, hunting and ammunition expert. He goes by the handle Formidilosus. He used to hang out on the 24 hour campfire but rarely pokes his head around there anymore due to getting called out on his ridiculous tall tales. But he has a BUNCH of people convinced that the .223 is a perfectly viable elk cartridge. He has fooled enough people over the years that there are guys going out and buying .223s just to hunt elk with. As far as I can tell the guy has only ever killed one elk in his entire life, but he makes it sound like he is an SME on all things related to elk hunting. Anyways, elk deserve a clean quick death and while a 6.5 is absolutely capable of doing that within a certain range, I think most guys would be better off with a little larger cartridge.

Just my thoughts.

Very much this. Great post from a guy that is clearly speaking from experience.

In my opinion, if you are going to hunt elk, get the .300 WM. If not, the 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you need and be a dream to work with during the process.

One other consideration would be Mountain Goats. For their size, they are about as tough as an animal gets. Sometimes the hunting situation calls for anchoring them in place so they don't fall 2000 feet. Overkill is valid in this scenario. (That is assuming that you have enough years left in your life to draw a tag)

Moose and Brown Bear I would get the .300 WM. Black bear are pretty easy to kill and any deer rifle will do, but I would probably feel a little under-gunned with the 6.5CM even though the biggest black bear I have seen killed first hand fell to a .257 Weatherby with a 115 grain NBT. It switched him off like a light. I have killed black bears with a .284 Winchester, a .375 JDJ in a Contender handgun, and a 7mm Rem Mag. All clean one-shot kills.

[newyork]

Realistically, the first year will be white tail only. After that I really don’t know if I’ll branch out to other places and bigger animals but that is my goal. I’d love to make it happen.

My aim initially was to buy a gun for white tail and so I figured 6.5 would be all I needed and I was going for that Sako. Then the more I thought of it, I figured why not get one rifle now that can handle most things and decided after reading here I should get beyond 6.5.

So I either buy a 6.5 now and buy a big boy later, or I cover all bases in 1 rifle now and get it done. (308/270/30-06/300Wm)

[Borderland]

I've never hunted elk so take this with some Tums. I generally hang out at the range in the fall when lots of people are getting ready to hunt elk. I talk to them about their hunts and their rifles. They hunt all over the west. I see 300 Win mag as the primary cartridge choice for elk. Down the list would be 06 and 270 but those are mostly old timers who have hunted elk forever and know what it takes to bag one. My FIL, now deceased, hunted elk in the Blue Mountains in NE OR for a very long time and shot many elk with a 270. My wife says they always had elk in the freezer when she was young. That would have been late 50's and 60's. I think the 270's popularity had to do with the writings of Jack O'Connor.

Weird, but .308 doesn't seem to be very popular.

[cornstalker]

I've never hunted elk so take this with some Tums. I generally hang out at the range in the fall when lots of people are getting ready to hunt elk. I talk to them about their hunts and their rifles. They hunt all over the west. I see 300 Win mag as the primary cartridge choice for elk. Down the list would be 06 and 270 but those are mostly old timers who have hunted elk forever and know what it takes to bag one. My FIL, now deceased, hunted elk in the Blue Mountains in NE OR for a very long time and shot many elk with a 270. My wife says they always had elk in the freezer when she was young. That would have been late 50's and 60's. I think the 270's popularity had to do with the writings of Jack O'Connor.

Weird, but .308 doesn't seem to be very popular.

Not to spark a fight, but in the elk hunting circles around here, we call the .308 a potato cannon. Lol.

[newyork]

Is it general consensus that the 300 should be reserved for only if I end up knowing I’ll be going for bigger game and as a 2nd gun?

[Duelist]

Realistically, the first year will be white tail only. After that I really don’t know if I’ll branch out to other places and bigger animals but that is my goal. I’d love to make it happen.

My aim initially was to buy a gun for white tail and so I figured 6.5 would be all I needed and I was going for that Sako. Then the more I thought of it, I figured why not get one rifle now that can handle most things and decided after reading here I should get beyond 6.5.

So I either buy a 6.5 now and buy a big boy later, or I cover all bases in 1 rifle now and get it done. (308/270/30-06/300Wm)

Nothing wrong with 2 rifles, and a lot right with it, if you can afford it. Light caliber for smaller stuff and to practice with, larger one for bigger stuff.

If you are just going to have one rifle for North America hunting, and don’t reload, I’d recommend the .308, .270, or .30’06. They are great on deer, fine for bigger things, and won’t make a day at the range nearly as much a chore as a comparable weight .300 WM might. If you reload, anything can be loaded to the performance level/recoil level needed. Reloading won’t turn a 6.5 or 6 MM into a cannon, you have to be realistic about that. I’m talking about not needing to take the full power of a given cartridge for a ride every time you shoot it.

[cornstalker]

My opinion. (again and again...)

The .300 WM is a one-and-done gun for hunting whatever you want to. For deer and antelope-sized game, you have to choose your bullets and shot placement carefully to keep from wrecking all of the meat. Heavy, tough bullets blow less of the animal apart. The drawbacks to it are expense and wear and tear on the rifle, including fast barrel heating resulting in extended cool down periods at the bench when practicing and sighting in. The muzzle brake will negate the recoil issue to a very tolerable level, but it's brutal on the ears and requires ear pro in the field no matter what. One shot without ear pro can cause permanent hearing damage.

I recommend two rifles, starting with the one you will shoot the most. If they were the same make and model of rifle, even better. Used as they were intended, pretty much everything discussed here will meet your needs.

If I wasn't already dialed in and needed to acquire two rifles to cover the continent, I would get matching rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor and .338 Win Mag.

[Borderland]

Is it general consensus that the 300 should be reserved for only if I end up knowing I’ll be going for bigger game and as a 2nd gun?

You really need to shoot a 300 WM before you buy one. ;) Many, like me, find it unpleasant to shoot.

Honestly, If I didn't know for certain if I was going to be hunting in the west I'd just buy a 264-270 something or other and enjoy shooting it. Ammo and rifle availability will return when everyone gets the vaccine and things open up.

[newyork]

You really need to shoot a 300 WM before you buy one. ;) Many, like me, find it unpleasant to shoot.

Honestly, If I didn't know for certain if I was going to be hunting in the west I'd just buy a .264 something or other and enjoy shooting it. Ammo and rifle availability will return when everyone gets the vaccine and things open up.

Could you fill those blanks with 6.5 just as effectively or those cartridges are better for whitetail?

[cornstalker]

6.5mm = .264" in cartridge speak.

[Lost River]

This is the rifle I'm taking hunting this summer. Tikka T3x in 30-06. It has a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 mm BRH scope. It weighs 7.7 lbs as seen below. I have both 3 and 5 round magazines of it. It shoots 0.66" groups with my handload (Barnes TTSX 180 gr. over 56.8 gr of H4350 @ about 2815 fps). Barnes Vortex 180 gr TTSX factory ammo is about 0.79" and comes out at 2760 fps.The whole package cost me $1300.

68169

New York

Paul's T3 30-06 with that exact handload, or factory ammo would kill any Whitetail, Elk, Moose, species of bear anywhere. You would never need to screw around with anything. Just grab your rifle case and go hunt. No need for a future , larger rifle, as the 30-06 will absolutely do it. If you feel the 180 is not up to the task, there are always 200s and 220s that will, and professional Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker has gone after the largest bears in AK with a 30-06 using heavy for caliber projectiles.

The short version is that these days, unless you are doing very extended range shooting, a magnum is really not needed and is usually detrimental in terms of precise placement. I could easily hunt the rest of my days with an -06 or .308 and be quite content.

[newyork]

It’s not a big deal at all but I’m curious what recoil in a 30-06 T3X is like. Not that I’ll be shooting a ton with it. As compared to 308 which I’m familiar with.

I’d have to substitute for a cheaper optic. That Swarovski is $1000.

[newyork]

So far I haven’t seen a 30-06 t3x available. 308 either. I’ve seen some Bergara 308. Weatherby 308.

[okie john]

It’s not a big deal at all but I’m curious what recoil in a 30-06 T3X is like. Not that I’ll be shooting a ton with it. As compared to 308 which I’m familiar with.

Slightly faster. If you can handle one then you can handle the other.


Okie John

[pangloss]

New York

Paul's T3 30-06 with that exact handload, or factory ammo would kill any Whitetail, Elk, Moose, species of bear anywhere. You would never need to screw around with anything. Just grab your rifle case and go hunt. No need for a future , larger rifle, as the 30-06 will absolutely do it. If you feel the 180 is not up to the task, there are always 200s and 220s that will, and professional Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker has gone after the largest bears in AK with a 30-06 using heavy for caliber projectiles.

The short version is that these days, unless you are doing very extended range shooting, a magnum is really not needed and is usually detrimental in terms of precise placement. I could easily hunt the rest of my days with an -06 or .308 and be quite content.

The book One Man, One Rifle, One Land (https://www.safaripress.com/books/safari-press-publications/one-man-one-rifle-one-land-l.html#product-tab) might be of interest to the OP.

[newyork]

I’ll be buying that book

[Shotgun]

Whatever you decide, it's damned exciting isn't it? Every man should have a deer rifle. They act like a time machine. You can drag that rifle out and be immediately transported back to hunts of long ago.

[Borderland]

Could you fill those blanks with 6.5 just as effectively or those cartridges are better for whitetail?

I edited my post because there are a lot of good cartridges out there larger than .264. I mainly group cartridges into calibers (dia. in inches) because that's what the reloading manuals do. I'm not sure why cartridge companies feel a need to use a Euro designation for a new cartridge but they do. They don't even adhere to the Euro standard of bullet dia. and case length like 7x57 (7mmx57mm). A 6.5 Creedmoor is actually a 6.5x49 but they opted to confuse everyone with both US and Euro naming conventions. It should have been a .264 Creedmoor. Sorry.

My general perception is just about any cartridge that can shoot a 120 gr bullet at 2500 fps would make an excellent deer rifle. Ammo companies are building some fantastic hunting ammo these days. People get too hung up on the gear and forget about the rest of the equation. That being ones ability to shoot the rifle they chose and the skill to stalk. I don't know anything about stand hunting but I would assume there is some skill evolved there also. Think bow hunting.

I think you would enjoy a 6.5 Creedmoor for a long time. :D

[Nephrology]

Have you looked @ Howa Rifles? They make rifles for several big name companies. Dependable and accurate with a NIB price around $600. On the other side of NY in grape country until recent times it was shotgun only for deer, rifle is now allowed in certain areas or zones. The most common rifle was a 30/30 in the beginning (probably already owned) but that has changed and i have seen more 30.06 and 243. in later years. Happy hunting

I'm not a hunter at all, but came here to post this recommendation. Howa makes really nice bolt guns for the money.


New York

Paul's T3 30-06 with that exact handload, or factory ammo would kill any Whitetail, Elk, Moose, species of bear anywhere. You would never need to screw around with anything. Just grab your rifle case and go hunt. No need for a future , larger rifle, as the 30-06 will absolutely do it. If you feel the 180 is not up to the task, there are always 200s and 220s that will, and professional Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker has gone after the largest bears in AK with a 30-06 using heavy for caliber projectiles.

The short version is that these days, unless you are doing very extended range shooting, a magnum is really not needed and is usually detrimental in terms of precise placement. I could easily hunt the rest of my days with an -06 or .308 and be quite content.

The only .30 cal rifle I own is a .30-06 Howa 1500 purchase on a lark. I am not a hunter (yet) and don't shoot it much, but I'd have a hard time getting rid of it. Until I have the money to get into real long-range precision shooting, the 30-06 Howa will do anything I could conceivably need a .30 cal rifle to do.

[Lost River]

The book One Man, One Rifle, One Land (https://www.safaripress.com/books/safari-press-publications/one-man-one-rifle-one-land-l.html#product-tab) might be of interest to the OP.

While I have enjoyed fiddling with all the various cartridges and who knows how many rifles over the years, I could have taken everything I have hunted with a 30-06. The money saved...:rolleyes:

BTW, Getting on my local Sportsman's Warehouse website shows Tikka T3 30-06 in stock. Gunbroker has some as well. Sportsman's Warehouse prices are much better. Probably like Cabelas. I'd see about having them ship one to your local shop.

[newyork]

I’ll go look!

[Rick R]

While I have enjoyed fiddling with all the various cartridges and who knows how many rifles over the years, I could have taken everything I have hunted with a 30-06. The money saved...:rolleyes:

The reason that there are few affluent riflemen is they spent it all on rifles. ;)

My only .30-06 became a 9.3x62 and now I have three of them. .308 rifles do what I want in the eastern deer woods without issue and for some reason multiply like rabbits in the gun safe. I own and use a bunch of different rifles in a myriad of cartridges, “Hello, my name is Rick and I’m a rifle addict”.

If my house burnt down today I’d buy a new Winchester M70 or Ruger M77 in .308 in blue steel/walnut, clamp a 3-9x Leupold on it and drive on. At NORMAL hunting distances in the eastern forests wood stocks are just fine. As the seasons go by wood and blued steel acquire a patina of memories that just grows on you.

Buy a rifle you enjoy shooting without an earsplittinloudnboomer brake and that isn’t too heavy to carry or too light to shoot well. Then go to the range to shoot it and go chase Bambi for a while to see what fits you.

[newyork]

Sounds to me like a 6.5 creedmoor would fit that bill well too in my state. SOft recoil. Very available in normal times. Good on white tail. Practice doesn’t kill you or cost a fortune. Very accurate. Rifle#2 can be the death ray magnum if I go that route.

Getting down to sako a7, Bergara wilderness ridge and tikka, in 6.5.

[Rick R]

EuroOptics has a Sauer 100 Classic XT .30-06 Rifle for $800, a Mauser M18 in 6.5 Creedmoor for $550, a Tikka T3x Lite Compact 6.5 Creedmoor 24.3" for $700 and a Sako A7 Big Game 6.5 Creedmoor 24.4" 1:8" Fluted Barrel Rifle w/Roughtech Stock for $900 (https://www.eurooptic.com/rifles.aspx?q=NjYwZGE1YTgtMGJlOC00OTdiLWIzMDAtYjc4 ZjAwYTE1ZTcy_MQ__MjcwMjQ5MTAtZWIxYS00YWZlLWJkYTUtM 2M0OGEwMWI3NDc1_ODQ1ZmZmOTgtMDI1OS00YzJmLWIzMDQtYm I5MWI0ZDU1NTIz__ZjcwN2RjNzYtYmZkMy00NmFlLTgzN2ItNz RlNDNlNmE0YzI0_YjY4MGFmNjEtZDA0MS00ZTMzLWI5NjMtMjE wYTY5Y2RiMDVm__ZjcwN2RjNzYtYmZkMy00NmFlLTgzN2ItNzR lNDNlNmE0YzI0_ZjU1OWJhYTEtNmNhYS00N2E2LThmYTgtYjc5 YWU5M2VlNjBk__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3 MGE1ZDEyNDM1_YjBmYWQzM2EtNGE1Yi00MzZlLWE0OTAtZjViO Dc2OTE2NjQw__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3M GE1ZDEyNDM1_OGYzMWI4MjQtODI2Mi00NjI3LWEyYjUtNDFmZT Y5ODczOTE1__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3MG E1ZDEyNDM1_MmY3YzQzMzktOWJjMC00ODdhLTg0MTItMWQyODU 2OWJjZmVl__Y2I0OWZkOGItN2FlMi00ZmZmLTk2ZDgtNDE3MGE 1ZDEyNDM1_ZmNiMDQzOGEtYWU5ZS00NzM0LTg1MjAtZDAyNjk1 MGY4MjMw&o=3&p=1&i=48&d=48&h=901.58).

They also have a Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10x40 HSR-4 Riflescope (https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-1558-Razor-HD-LH-2-10x40-Riflescope-with-HSR-4---RZR-155.aspx) on close out sale for $430 (normally its about $799).

Europtic is a dangerous place. My wife and I walked in there last week and she promptly laid eyes on a new M98 Mauser sporting rifle in 8x57mm for $12,000 that she now likes. Yes boys, I found the perfect woman for me years ago.

[newyork]

Wow that’s intense. Looks like the Bergara tikka and sako all have 2 position safety. 3 would be nice. Sauer has 3 as does the Mauser but idk if it’s worth stepping down to get it. All 3 of those and 6.5 make for a nice pkg.

[Borderland]

Europtic is a dangerous place. My wife and I walked in there last week and she promptly laid eyes on a new M98 Mauser sporting rifle in 8x57mm for $12,000 that she now likes. Yes boys, I found the perfect woman for me years ago.

Did that belong to some renowned African hunter? You need to get a story with it for 12K.

[Borderland]

Wow that’s intense. Looks like the Bergara tikka and sako all have 2 position safety. 3 would be nice. Sauer has 3 as does the Mauser but idk if it’s worth stepping down to get it. All 3 of those and 6.5 make for a nice pkg.

Not sure what the function of a 3 position safety is. Does it allow working the bolt in safe mode? I probably knew at one time. :D

[newyork]

Yes. Some lock the bolt when in safety and some don’t. Bergara allows bolt manipulation in safety but has no bolt lock.

[Paul D]

Did that belong to some renowned African hunter? You need to get a story with it for 12K.

Nope. That's how much a new Mauser 98 costs. Makes Dakota rifles look like a bargain.

[Rick R]

Did that belong to some renowned African hunter? You need to get a story with it for 12K.
The brand new Mauser M98 rifles are “pricey”. The new Rigby Highland Stalker in .30-06 beside the Mauser was $10K.
After handling those rifles the Sako, Tikka and Bergara rifles seemed quite reasonable at $1,000 to $3,000.

[newyork]

The Bergara HMR looks really cool. Bridges the precision/hunter gap but it’s 9.5lbs.

[newyork]

Sako A7 vs Bergara Wilderness Ridge

[Duelist]

Wow that’s intense. Looks like the Bergara tikka and sako all have 2 position safety. 3 would be nice. Sauer has 3 as does the Mauser but idk if it’s worth stepping down to get it. All 3 of those and 6.5 make for a nice pkg.j


Not sure what the function of a 3 position safety is. Does it allow working the bolt in safe mode? I probably knew at one time. :D

Winchester Model 70 has a three position wing safety on the bolt that locks/blocks the firing pin except when in fire position. The mid position allows for cycling the bolt on safe with a firing pin that cannot hit a primer. Other systems may not allow for the same, even if they are three position.

That point can start some fights on hunting forums almost as quickly as “does CRF matter?”

[newyork]

Just learned the sako has a separate button to allow it.

[Paul D]

I saw this at Kygunco while looking for something else: CZ 557 Sporter in 30-06 with a Manners EHS stock (carbon fiber) (https://kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=41307). Its barrel is a little shorter than usual at 20.5 inches. It weighs 6.5 lbs so you can put a heavy ass scope and still be under 8 lbs. You'll kill anything in the CONUS within 400 yards with this. It is blued which may be a deal killer. It is just over your $1000 budget but shipping is free and they don't collect sales tax. A Manners stock ala carte is around $700.

https://cdn.classicfirearms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/2/62376.jpg

[newyork]

That’s pretty bad ass. Blue. Hmmm. Idk. Like the looks but...

[newyork]

I was trying to avoid blued and if I don’t adhere to my budget it’ll get ugly for me.

[newyork]

https://www.eurooptic.com/Franchi-Momentum-Elite-308-Win-22-True-Timber-Strata-Midnight-Bronze-Bolt-Action.aspx

Thoughts? Experience?

[newyork]

If one were dumb enough to go further like $1200, how about Christiansen? Or anything else that $1000 is so close to but not getting there?

Or is $1000 starting to hit the point of diminishing returns?

[Paul D]

If one were dumb enough to go further like $1200, how about Christiansen? Or anything else that $1000 is so close to but not getting there?

Or is $1000 starting to hit the point of diminishing returns?

I wouldn't. The only thing where going up in cost is better is optics. Most of the cost goes into things that may not affect your hunt as much like how fine the stock is or replacing all plastic stuff with metal. For example, before getting the Tikka, I was considering getting a Sako Finnlight in 30-06. That gun alone was $1600. It had a nicer stock, everything was metal and the finish (no pun intended) was nice. You would feel proud to own that gun. Each Sako metal magazine was $128 and I seriously doubted it could outshoot the Tikka. So shoved my pride outta way and got the T3x and used the difference to get the scope. Now glass, over a $1000 would not be crazy....

[newyork]

Good I’m glad. I didn’t want to. Basically I’m at sako a7, Bergara wilderness or tikka. Still flopping on 6.5/308/30-06. Wouldn’t mind the 2 rifle idea over time so 6.5 wouldn’t suck first.

[OlongJohnson]

If you're really down with getting a second rifle later to head out west and hunt big stuff, you could end this thread and start a new one on "setting up my new rifle and finding ammo" with that 6.5 Tikka and optic linked at Eurooptic earlier in the thread and be done. It wouldn't be wrong.

[newyork]

I think I’ll do just that.

I’m still playing with the sako, Bergara or tikka but there will definitely be a thread for setting her up.

I’m super tempted to go with the sako or Bergara for some reason. The sako has had much praise and is $900 vs it’s $1200 normal price

The tikka has a blued barrel I think. It is $700 though. Also sub 6lbs. Stainless would’ve been nice.

[Duelist]

I think I’ll do just that.

I’m still playing with the sako, Bergara or tikka but there will definitely be a thread for setting her up.

I’m super tempted to go with the sako or Bergara for some reason. The sako has had much praise and is $900 vs it’s $1200 normal price

The tikka has a blued barrel I think. It is $700 though. Also sub 6lbs. Stainless would’ve been nice.

Blue won’t hurt you. You do need to clean and oil it after weather exposure, and it will show scars from use over time. Clean, and wax before use, and you won’t likely need to be afraid of rust.

[newyork]

Here is the sako

https://www.eurooptic.com/Sako-A7-Big-Game-6-5-Creedmoor-26-1-8-Fluted-Barrel-Rifle-Roughtech-Stock-JRMBG82TB.aspx

[SD]

Good I’m glad. I didn’t want to. Basically I’m at sako a7, Bergara wilderness or tikka. Still flopping on 6.5/308/30-06. Wouldn’t mind the 2 rifle idea over time so 6.5 wouldn’t suck first.

One thing to consider when selecting a caliber such as 6.5mm or any boutique latest rage ammunition, it is doubtful for example RT-17, exist 100 in Liberty you are going to find anything 6mm, but a dusty box of 30.06 even in todays times will be located easily. Ya we all say "we ain't that guy", until we are that guy or he is a hunting companion you are traveling with. :rolleyes:

[okie john]

One thing to consider when selecting a caliber such as 6.5mm or any boutique latest rage ammunition, it is doubtful for example existing RT-17, exist 100 in Liberty you are going to find anything 6mm, but a dusty box of 30.06 even in todays times will be located easily.

Around here, 308 and 30-06 vanished by Thanksgiving. 270 and 7mm Magnum were gone by Christmas. There are a few boxes of oddballs like 7-30 Waters and 38-40 but that's about it.

Dry firing is still widely available, though.


Okie John

[SD]

Completely agree with you, and Im very much hoping that things will somewhat normalize before this years big game hunting begins.Some unusual times for sourcing ammunition of any kind currently.
Around here, 308 and 30-06 vanished by Thanksgiving. 270 and 7mm Magnum were gone by Christmas. There are a few boxes of oddballs like 7-30 Waters and 38-40 but that's about it.

Dry firing is still widely available, though.


Okie John

[JM Campbell]

Burris xtr II 3-15x 34mm tube blemish on sale at Natchez $699

https://www.natchezss.com/blemished-burris-xtr-ii-rifle-scope-3-15x50mm-34mm-ffp-illum-scr-mil-reticle-ffp-matte.html

I don’t know if that’s the kind of scope your looking for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[newyork]

I figure all ammo will be tough to find or expensive. When it cools down 6.5 is extremely available and popular and will be on shelves. If I can score a few boxes to sight in and practice that’ll be great. Then I have like 10 months to worry about actually NEEDING it to hunt. It’s not like it’s a glock in a weird caliber where I would be shooting hundreds of rounds in a session.

If 6.5 was always rare and wasn’t going to be on shelves normally then I’d skip it.

[Caballoflaco]

One thing to consider when selecting a caliber such as 6.5mm or any boutique latest rage ammunition, it is doubtful for example RT-17, exist 100 in Liberty you are going to find anything 6mm, but a dusty box of 30.06 even in todays times will be located easily. Ya we all say "we ain't that guy", until we are that guy or he is a hunting companion you are traveling with. :rolleyes:

There are no more dusty forgotten boxes of common ammunition left here. All the hunters vs. shooters I know were scavenging every store in every state that might have ammo and running huge group texts trying to help each other find ammo. But, back when you could find ammo 6,5’s were as available as anything else.

[Navin Johnson]

Funny how in the 80's the answer was 30-06/308/270 and its the same today. Wonder what it will be in 20 years?

Frankly today if I were buying I would choose based on what I could get 10-20 boxes of ammo right now of the above calibers.

With modern bullets and powders is there really any difference for hunting? (with the main stream calibers)

Or find a nice used with good glass on it and that will solve the caliber question.

[newyork]

Currently that’s be 308 in my area. No idea if that’ll change soon. Local shop says they’ve seen some hope in the supply chain though. He said he has plenty 308 but idk what it is. Surplus or plinking ammo or quality stuff.

I also saw a 308 Bergara in 308 for $799 on GB. 7.1lbs. Wilderness Hunter. Cerakoted.

[Borderland]

I saw this at Kygunco while looking for something else: CZ 557 Sporter in 30-06 with a Manners EHS stock (carbon fiber) (https://kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=41307). Its barrel is a little shorter than usual at 20.5 inches. It weighs 6.5 lbs so you can put a heavy ass scope and still be under 8 lbs. You'll kill anything in the CONUS within 400 yards with this. It is blued which may be a deal killer. It is just over your $1000 budget but shipping is free and they don't collect sales tax. A Manners stock ala carte is around $700.

https://cdn.classicfirearms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/2/62376.jpg

I've upgraded the stocks on two rifles and it makes a world of difference. I have a 3rd rifle I haven't upgraded only because I don't shoot it very much. That's usually the first thing someone does to a rifle if they shoot it a lot. The second thing is they have some trigger work done or maybe in reverse order depending on the rifle. CZ's have decent triggers, Ruger's, not so much. Howa's have crappy stocks and decent triggers. That's just a generalization but I've owned all three. :D

I'd have no problem buying that CZ chambered in a short action. A bargain basement Howa would probably need a stock upgrade.

[okie john]

The last new ammo that I've seen in LGS was blue-box Federal 308 back in November.

I see 308/30-06/5.56/12-gauge coming back first, then 20-gauge/30-30/243, then WSM/6.5 Creedmoor/270/belted magnums, etc. That's based on the number of existing arms chambered for them, not on the merits of those cartridges.

I also think that with the supply chain cleared of old stock, ammo makers will be in a far better position to understand what actually sells and will be more selective about future production. This is one of the best moments in history for them to abandon older, less popular cartridges.


Okie John

[newyork]

That CZ is a looker.

[Duelist]

The last new ammo that I've seen in LGS was blue-box Federal 308 back in November.

I see 308/30-06/5.56/12-gauge coming back first, then 20-gauge/30-30/243, then WSM/6.5 Creedmoor/270/belted magnums, etc. That's based on the number of existing arms chambered for them, not on the merits of those cartridges.

I also think that with the supply chain cleared of old stock, ammo makers will be in a far better position to understand what actually sells and will be more selective about future production. This is one of the best moments in history for them to abandon older, less popular cartridges.


Okie John

5.56 and 12g should be in the vanguard here, then .308, then maybe 6.5 Creedmoor, because of their use in gun games where practice and matches consume large amounts of ammunition at a fairly steady rate.

[newyork]

One addition I forgot about was the t3x ctr stainless that one of the shops had here. Over priced but I fondled it. 7.5lb but front heavy with that heavy bbl.

[Borderland]

Glass is just as important as the rifle and should cost as much. I know many will disagree with that but I've always tried to do that. Every cheap scope I've purchased I've regretted.

A $150 Redfield I bought about 5 years ago comes to mind. I'm still loving the $500 Leupold I bought at about the same time. They dropped the model and the replacement now is more expensive.

[okie john]

The rifle should balance at the front action screw when it's ready to hunt. Making offhand hits with a rifle that's light in the muzzle is far harder than with a rifle that's neutral or muzzle heavy. Muzzle heavy without a scope is a good thing because adding a scope shifts the balance point to the rear. If forced to choose between muzzle-heavy and muzzle-light, I'll take muzzle-heavy every time.


Okie John

[newyork]

Thank you John. Glad to learn that.

I just read of a bunch of issues that are known with the sako a7. Got me starting to think tikka and Bergara should get my attention.

https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/a7-bolt-concerns.13893/

This is what the shop had. Similar price

https://www.eurooptic.com/JRTXC316S-Tikka-Tikka-T3x-CTR-308-Win-S-S-200--barrel-MPN-JR.aspx

[OlongJohnson]

I'm still loving the $500 Leupold I bought at about the same time. They dropped the model and the replacement now is more expensive.

Leupolds get really inexpensive just before the line gets dropped and a new line comes out.

[newyork]

T3X Lite Stainless in 6.5 $799 no cc fees. GB.

[Borderland]

One thing to consider when selecting a caliber such as 6.5mm or any boutique latest rage ammunition, it is doubtful for example RT-17, exist 100 in Liberty you are going to find anything 6mm, but a dusty box of 30.06 even in todays times will be located easily. Ya we all say "we ain't that guy", until we are that guy or he is a hunting companion you are traveling with. :rolleyes:

6.5 Creedmoor has been with us for about 12 years now. It isn't a boutique cartridge anymore. I don't think there are any US ammo mfg's that don't build ammo for it. A good comparison of this cartridge would be .308 Win and 30-06. The former being a short action and not much else. The Creedmoor is the new 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. Anyone who looks at cartridge performance knows what a 6.5x55 SM is. It's been around for 125 years. Sort of the Euro version of the -06.

Here's a good comparison of Euro 6.5mm (.264) cartridges and the 6.5 Creedmoor.

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/comparing-american-and-european-rifle-cartridges/83489

[Borderland]

Leupolds get really inexpensive just before the line gets dropped and a new line comes out.

Yeah, I got lucky and didn't even know it. :D

[OlongJohnson]

T3X Lite Stainless in 6.5 $799 no cc fees. GB.

Shut up and dooo eeet already.

[newyork]

Shut up and dooo eeet already.

I know I know. It’s coming. Few days. I’ll probably grab a Bergara in 308 for the same exact price. Local shop actually has 308.

[Rex G]

Local shop actually has 308.

Yes, .308 Winchester has seemed to be a mostly-available cartridge, through most of 2020 and 2021. It took a while for many of the other hunting cartridges to sell-out, but, once they did sell out, stock has tended to not be replenished, whereas .308 has continued to trickle into retail sellers.

[Paul D]

I know I know. It’s coming. Few days. I’ll probably grab a Bergara in 308 for the same exact price. Local shop actually has 308.

If you get that Bergera .308, I will give the starter kit below for free!


68248

[newyork]

Seriously Paul that’s be amazing!!! I truly appreciate that!

[CR78]

This thread has been my favorite read over the past few days. Incredible how much content has been contributed over a three day period; I'm always blown away by the general wealth of information the PF regulars have. Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions. Makes me fantasize about a hunting-dedicated section of the forum...

I'm new to both hunting and bolt action rifles; last season was my first for white tail, and I ended up buying a T3x lite in 7mm-08 with the intention of purchasing (if we're being honest, reserving an excuse to buy) a larger caliber rifle in the event I move on to bigger game or greater distances. I've had absolutely zero complaints with the rifle, and my freezer is full. It's also my first foray into scopes, and I bought a Vortex Viper HS 4-16x50. I've found that - where I hunt - there's sometimes a surge of activity in the minutes before sunset, and I'm occasionally aiming with the sun behind my target. I end up with an orange flare (for lack of a better term) that shows up at about 10x magnification, and it makes the scope pretty useless in that situation unless I dial back the magnification. That doesn't present a hardship at the distances I'm shooting, and Vortex provides a sunshade with the scope that is supposed to help with that issue (I've never used it). As I understand it (again, I'm a neophyte, so take my conclusion with a grain of salt), nicer scopes with better glass coatings don't have this problem, negating the need for a sunshade. I'm already planning to upgrade my optic.

[newyork]

Some great input right there.

What would be your choice for next step up from that vortex and which line of vortex was it?

[Borderland]

CR78

7mm-08 was an excellent choice. Another necked down .308 that will be popular for a long time. My choice for .284 (7mm).

[Duelist]

This thread has been my favorite read over the past few days. Incredible how much content has been contributed over a three day period; I'm always blown away by the general wealth of information the PF regulars have. Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions. Makes me fantasize about a hunting-dedicated section of the forum...

I'm new to both hunting and bolt action rifles; last season was my first for white tail, and I ended up buying a T3x lite in 7mm-08 with the intention of purchasing (if we're being honest, reserving an excuse to buy) a larger caliber rifle in the event I move on to bigger game or greater distances. I've had absolutely zero complaints with the rifle, and my freezer is full. It's also my first foray into scopes, and I bought a Vortex Viper HS 4-16x50. I've found that - where I hunt - there's sometimes a surge of activity in the minutes before sunset, and I'm occasionally aiming with the sun behind my target. I end up with an orange flare (for lack of a better term) that shows up at about 10x magnification, and it makes the scope pretty useless in that situation unless I dial back the magnification. That doesn't present a hardship at the distances I'm shooting, and Vortex provides a sunshade with the scope that is supposed to help with that issue (I've never used it). As I understand it (again, I'm a neophyte, so take my conclusion with a grain of salt), nicer scopes with better glass coatings don't have this problem, negating the need for a sunshade. I'm already planning to upgrade my optic.

That Viper HS should be a pretty good scope. I am not aware of any scope that can completely eliminate a solar flare when the sun is hitting the objective.

For my hunting, the scope quality is important, but the binoculars are exponentially more important. I spend many hours each day when hunting glassing with my binoculars. I maybe spent 30-60 seconds looking through my rifle scope on my last deer when I shot him (130 yards), and maybe 30 seconds the night before in the process of deciding to not try and make a shot (550 yards) and to wait till a better opportunity (which came the next afternoon). The deer prior to that, I spent maybe five minutes on my scope waiting for a feeding animal to turn and present a workable shot angle (300 yards). In between killing those two deer, I had an opportunity for a long range deer using a friend’s custom 6.5-.284 with a huge Nightforce scope - max magnification was 20x or more. 800yds, at dusk. I could not see it well enough, even through that $2500 scope sitting on that $5000 rifle, to feel good about taking a poke at that range. I spent minutes going back and forth between spotting scope and binos and riflescope. Two friends who regularly make that kind of kill and walk others through them were coaching me. The spotting scope had him, the binos had him, but the scope was just gray on gray blobs. There comes a time of day when no scope will work, and solar flare will shine in any of them I’ve ever touched.

For where and how I hunt, the binoculars make much more difference. And at reasonable ranges, at least in my experience, a more reasonable priced scope will take care of business. I would probably feel okay to spend up to $1k on the right scope, but the Burris on my .243 was only about $150 and does the job. Others with more varied experiences may feel a higher end scope is more important.

[okie john]

This thread has been my favorite read over the past few days. Incredible how much content has been contributed over a three day period; I'm always blown away by the general wealth of information the PF regulars have. Just wanted to thank everyone for their contributions. Makes me fantasize about a hunting-dedicated section of the forum...

OK, I'll throw out a few pointers. All of this has been written down long ago by people more knowledgeable than me. Read everything you can find by Jack O’Connor, Finn Aagaard, and Craig Boddington. You’ll discover more along the way. If you can only read one, pick Aagaard.

General
• The cheapest guns are the ones you already own.
• Dollars cannot express the value of a rifle that holds its zero and a scope that tracks properly.
• I’d rather hunt with a $1,000 pair of binos and a $200 rifle than the other way around.
• You will learn to love LocTite.
• I despise screws that shoot loose, rifles that kick too hard, and rifles that are too light.
• Time is the most important thing about all of this, and it’s the only thing you can’t replace.

Rifles
• You need a rifle that you like and that you can shoot well. You can hunt most of North America with something on the heavy end of the deer rifle scale and a 4x scope. It should be bedded into a synthetic stock with a free-floated barrel, and should balance at the front action screw. It must hold its zero and the scope must track properly. Almost everything else is irrelevant.
• Once you have that rifle, get another one chambered for a similar cartridge and get it ready to go. Then you’ll have double the options if ammo gets hard to find.
• Keep one rifle clean and zeroed for a general-purpose hunting load, and have a few boxes of that load on hand. You may get a chance to hunt when you least expect it or time may get tight in the weeks before hunting season. If you decide to work on that rifle for some reason, get another one into that condition before you touch it.
• If a 308 or a 30-06 is the wrong answer, then double-check the question.
• Hunting cartridges are more alike than different. Obsessing over the best ones can be enjoyable but is (almost) a complete waste of time. When in doubt, choose logistics over ballistics.
• Some people want different rifles and loads for every situation. Or you can get one good rifle/load combination and vary the optics and zero to match the situation.
• Factory ammo is more accurate than most people think. Some military 308 and 30-06 is almost as good.
• Not every rifle shoots every load well.
• A Nosler Partition with a damaged base will fly all over. Damage to the tip is virtually meaningless.

Scopes and Sights
• You should know how to use iron sights well. But a scope adds 45 minutes to each end of the hunting day because you can see crosshairs long before and after you can see iron sights. Scopes also work better in the brush than most people know.
• High-magnification scopes and fine reticles help you shoot small groups, but 4x and a standard duplex is fine for most things. An illuminated 4x that tracks properly may be the ultimate hunting scope.
• Illuminated LPVs make a lot of sense, ideally with some ranging ability.
• A rifle that can reach several hundred yards is hobbled with a 2.5x scope.
• Learn about zeros and when to use each one. The Jack O’Connor Zero puts a high-velocity spitzer +3” at 100 yards and dead on between 225-245 yards. He developed it for open-country deer hunting and it’s a good general-purpose choice. The idea is that you can hold on the (roughly) 8” vital zone of a deer and get hits out to 300-ish yards. But most people kill most game within 200 yards, and this zero puts your bullet more than 2” above line of sight from 70-200 yards and more than 3” above the line of sight from 110-165. That can cause high misses, especially on moving targets. The same load zeroed about +1” at 100 will be dead on around 150 and within 1” of the line of sight all the way out to almost 200. It can be a lot more useful in SOME cases.

HUNTING
• 400 yards is a long poke. (Lost River)
• Pre-hunt training matters. Include dry-fire, zero confirmation, work on whatever your guide suggests, running the bolt, and as much live fire as you can manage.
• Don‘t overlook stuff you can do for free, like dry-firing, staying in shape, and using binoculars. The list is surprisingly long.
• Accuracy is important but matters less than most people think. 1.25 MOA is really good. 1.5 MOA is good enough. 2 MOA will put a lot of meat on the table—as will 4 MOA if you know what you’re doing. 1 MOA is icing on the cake. Sub-MOA is icing on the icing but getting there can be expensive.
• Start planning your next hunt on the drive home while your mistakes are fresh in your mind. Write things down, then you have almost a year to review what didn’t go well and fix them before you go back.
• Keep your binos handy and use them—game can show up at any moment.

SHOOTING
• Bench technique matters. You have to learn to shoot from a bench—it doesn’t just magically happen.
• Field technique matters more than bench technique. Read The Art of the Rifle by Jeff Cooper to learn about this.
• At some point, you have to get off of the bench and compare rifles on practical tasks from realistic positions. This means use a timer, shoot at scoreable targets and note your results, shoot beyond 200 yards, and practice shooting from expedient positions and getting into position quickly.
• Learn to use a shooting sling, shooting sticks, bipods, and a ruck in the field. Figure out beforehand if they cause POI shifts.

That’s all I’ve got for now.


Okie John

[newyork]

Spoke to Europtic and they still stand by their suggestion on the sako in a sub $1000 choice followed by Tikka and then Bergara.

He had never heard of any issues with the A7 and said if there was Sako would bend over backwards.

I mentioned the local shop having 308 hence my leaning that way. He said they got in 6.4 in today but it’s sold already. If I wanted 308 in a rifle then tikka would be his pick but they have none and then followed by Bergara. They didn’t have any Bergara but I can get that wilderness hunter for $799. A7 is $900.

He said the sako a7 is definitely a cut above the other 2 and he considers the Bergara a little more average than even tikka.

[okie john]

Spoke to Europtic and they still stand by their suggestion on the sako in a sub $1000 choice followed by Tikka and then Bergara.

He had never heard of any issues with the A7 and said if there was Sako would bend over backwards.

I mentioned the local shop having 308 hence my leaning that way. He said they got in 6.4 in today but it’s sold already. If I wanted 308 in a rifle then tikka would be his pick but they have none and then followed by Bergara. They didn’t have any Bergara but I can get that wilderness hunter for $799. A7 is $900.

He said the sako a7 is definitely a cut above the other 2 and he considers the Bergara a little more average than even tikka.

Stop talking to people who sell rifles for a living (especially EuroOptic) and start listening to people who use them. A7 issues are well documented. Sako might bend over backwards to help shooters but they're owned by Beretta, who has a reputation for making shooters bend over forwards when it comes to long guns.

There are plenty of good rifles out there. You just have to find one. Again, be patient.


Okie John

[newyork]

Good points

[Borderland]

Read everything you can find by Jack O’Connor, Finn Aagaard, and Craig Boddington.

If you read O'Connor, you'll end up with a .270 Win. :D He died in 78 so I won't hold it against him. I think he was the reason I bought a 7mm Mag in 1970.

[CR78]

Some great input right there.

What would be your choice for next step up from that vortex and which line of vortex was it?

The step-up from the Viper I'm running would be something in the Razor line. I'm pretty sure that the Swarovski Z3 Paul D is running is a step up from a Viper as well. Not sure which direction I'm going to go yet, as my scope research has been deprioritized as I focus on my (first!) upcoming turkey season. I'll highlight again though that my personal experience is limited to one white tail season, and I'd totally defer to Dualist's comments on the presence of solar flare. I may upgrade and wind up with the same issue in a more expensive scope, and I've had no other perceived issues with the Viper HS.

[Duelist]

If you read O'Connor, you'll end up with a .270 Win. :D He died in 78 so I won't hold it against him. I think he was the reason I bought a 7mm Mag in 1970.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that!!
68268

[OlongJohnson]

If you read O'Connor, you'll end up with a .270 Win. :D He died in 78 so I won't hold it against him. I think he was the reason I bought a 7mm Mag in 1970.

This caused me to search "O-Connor 7mm rem mag" and found a pretty cool writeup he did in 1972 extolling the virtues of 7x57, and another article on Chuckhawks explaining how 7-08 is actually equivalent, if not ballistically superior, as well as logistically vastly better in modern America.

[Borderland]

This caused me to search "O-Connor 7mm rem mag" and found a pretty cool writeup he did in 1972 extolling the virtues of 7x57, and another article on Chuckhawks explaining how 7-08 is actually equivalent, if not ballistically superior, as well as logistically vastly better in modern America.

https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/forty-years-little-7mm

I'm not a fan of the 7mm Rem Mag although it's probably the most popular mag rifle cartridge sold today in the US. I gave mine away because I didn't enjoy shooting it that much, my brother was in need of a rifle, and I had moved from AZ to WA where the fishing was a lot better than the hunting. I stopped deer hunting around 1975.

[newyork]

Local spot has a Steiner GS3 2-10x42 with German #4 reticular #5004. Normally $879. On sale for $599. Could maybe budge to $550. Anyone out there that can vouch for this optic? 18oz.

[newyork]

I’m pretty much ready to buy. I don’t HAVE TO right now but I can.

As of now I’m digging the Bergara Wilderness Hunter in 308 with low Talley rings and we will see on the optic. Steiner GS3 is looking good for 550-600. But we will see.

Honorable mention goes to a Bergara in 6.5 or a Tikka in 308, 6.5 or 30-06 in stainless. But I’m leaning Bergara. If something else smacks me in the next couple days that changes this I’ll keep it up. Otherwise I’ll order the Bergara.

[Rick R]

As of now I’m digging the Bergara Wilderness Hunter in 308 with low Talley rings and we will see on the optic. Steiner GS3 is looking good for 550-600. But we will see.


That would be a good setup. The rifle looks good, a friend bought some Talley rings for a custom rifle he found used and I was very impressed, while its not Long range/Precision kewl the #4 reticle is great for normal deer hunting, my .416 has a Leupold scope with their version of that reticle, though intended for bigger game.

As a confirmed Boomer I lean toward the .308 because it has worked for me for decades. A friend who is genuinely a thoughtful shooter raves about his 6.5 Creedmore (Manbun / Vegan) and I respect his opinion, plus it should be a carbon copy of the 6.5 Swede which has put a lot of venison on the pole for about a century.

What ever you buy you aren’t married for life and trading in a rifle isn’t nearly as expensive as a divorce.

[newyork]

Just bought a Bergara Wilderness Hunter in 308!

[newyork]

Ordered the 2-10 Vortex, Talley one piece aluminum 1” low rings, and fix it sticks. All I need is ammo and time.

[Duelist]

Sounds like you should be set, then! Congratulations!

[Shotgun]

Just bought a Bergara Wilderness Hunter in 308!

Two things. First, great choice!
Second, well dang. I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[newyork]

It was a pleasure and thank everyone here for every bit of your time.

[newyork]

The only thing lingering is, should I have bought that Steiner instead. I saved $170 with the Vortex. Hopefully it is a reliable solid piece.

[Duelist]

The only thing lingering is, should I have bought that Steiner instead. I saved $170 with the Vortex. Hopefully it is a reliable solid piece.

Vortex products are good and they have a lifetime, no BS warrantee. I lost a lens cover. They replaced it, no questions asked. A friend of mine’s grandkids borrowed a pair of his binos, and seem to have dragged them through a mountain of sand b/c one of the lens cups was grinding instead of smoothly turning. They RMA’d, cleaned it up and replaced a worn part on it, and sent it back, all warranty work, no charge for anything.

I have no issues or worries with Vortex.

[newyork]

Sounds great to me!

Bought Strelok Pro.

Looks like everything should be here by the weekend.

[pointfiveoh]

For the hopeless romantics who are hunting with a walnut stocked bolt .30-06 gun, what do you do to maintain your stock? What products do you like that minimize off gassing and unnatural smells in the woods? What do you do for the balance between showing off the grain of the wood and not being a reflective strobe light for game?

[okie john]

For the hopeless romantics who are hunting with a walnut stocked bolt .30-06 gun, what do you do to maintain your stock? What products do you like that minimize off gassing and unnatural smells in the woods? What do you do for the balance between showing off the grain of the wood and not being a reflective strobe light for game?

Linseed oil is probably about as good as anything.


Okie John

[flyrodr]

For the hopeless romantics who are hunting with a walnut stocked bolt .30-06 gun, what do you do to maintain your stock? What products do you like that minimize off gassing and unnatural smells in the woods? What do you do for the balance between showing off the grain of the wood and not being a reflective strobe light for game?

I haven't tried this, but I'd expect that some furniture wax - - - the kind you rub on, and let dry "to a haze" before buffing off - - - could be rubbed on, but not buffed, and it would dull the stock's finish. Seems I recall the old Johnson paste wax dries to a haze without turning white.

[Nephrology]

The only thing lingering is, should I have bought that Steiner instead. I saved $170 with the Vortex. Hopefully it is a reliable solid piece.

the 2-10 is the Viper PSTII series right? I have had a number of PST II series scopes, still own the 3-15 and 5-25. They are excellent. The Viper is a really nice sweet spot of quality:price. They tend to be a bit heavy but optical quality is great and their CS is easily to deal with. I bought a Razor whose illumination wouldn't function reliably at every setting, I had an RMA in <24hr and the scope back to me just over a week from when I dropped it in the UPS box.

[Duelist]

Vortex products are good and they have a lifetime, no BS warrantee. I lost a lens cover. They replaced it, no questions asked. A friend of mine’s grandkids borrowed a pair of his binos, and seem to have dragged them through a mountain of sand b/c one of the lens cups was grinding instead of smoothly turning. They RMA’d, cleaned it up and replaced a worn part on it, and sent it back, all warranty work, no charge for anything.

I have no issues or worries with Vortex.

Hunting Coues whitetail in southern Arizona last year: my 15x Vortex binos were on my tripod while glassing the mountains for a buck. I knocked the tripod over and watched in slow motion horror as my binos slammed into a chunk of granite from a fall of over 6’. The tripod adapter snapped on impact, and there was visible exterior damage to both lens cups.

Vortex repaired them to like new at no charge, and replaced the broken tripod adapter as well.

I just bought a new laser range finder. I’m not trying to be a fanboy, but I bought a Vortex.

[OlongJohnson]

For the hopeless romantics who are hunting with a walnut stocked bolt .30-06 gun, what do you do to maintain your stock? What products do you like that minimize off gassing and unnatural smells in the woods? What do you do for the balance between showing off the grain of the wood and not being a reflective strobe light for game?

Wood fanatics over at RFC like Renaissance Wax on their CZ wood lottery winners.

[03RN]

For the hopeless romantics who are hunting with a walnut stocked bolt .30-06 gun, what do you do to maintain your stock? What products do you like that minimize off gassing and unnatural smells in the woods? What do you do for the balance between showing off the grain of the wood and not being a reflective strobe light for game?

Linseed oil
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