How is Kahr P380 and PM9093

[Alan0354]

Hi

I am thinking about buying another semi, I am looking at Kahr, it is after my time when I quit shooting 30 years ago. Kahr is after my time and I have no idea whether they are good or bad. Just want to hear from you guys.

Thanks

[CZ Man]

I've got a PM9. It's a great gun to carry when you can't carry something larger. Disappears in a pocket or a belly band. I bought mine used, but I've heard they need a break in period. Mine's been flawless so far through the approximately 500-700 rounds I've put through it. No idea how many rounds the previous owner shot.

The only quirk with it is that you need to hit the slide release when you reload. If you try to rack the slide it will occasionally fail to go into battery. Once it's chambered it runs just fine with everything I've fed it.

I'd recommend it for a backup up gun or an NPE gun. Hope that helps.

[Oldherkpilot]

I carry a Kahr CW380 in an ankle.holster when I'm working. I concur with the previous poster about loading a round in the chamber with the slide release. The Lands have the best sights in the class and the trigger is uber safe for pocket or ankle carry.

[Alan0354]

Thanks guys, I am not set on Kahr, just doing some research. Youtube doesn't seems to be too kind towards the Kahr 380.

I am not ruling out Ruger LC380. Youtube seems to have much kinder reviews.

Seems like you just cannot get high reliability, bigger caliber and light weight together, got to have some weight behind it to be more reliable. Even Ruger is the same, there was at least one youtube show the LCP small 380 malfunction multiple times. Also, it's not legal in Kalifornia. LC380 is bigger and heavier.

Even the Beretta Tomcat 32 have it's share of frame cracking problem with smaller 32ACP. Just hard to find tiny ones with significant calibers.

I have time to think, I just bought the Glock 26, I have to wait 30 days before I can buy another one thanks to the law of kalifornia.

[HeavyDuty]

Honest opinion? Stick with the 26 for now, and then if you need something thinner search for a 43 - you’ll pay a premium in CA but it will be directly translatable from your 26. But, you may find why so many of us say that if we were restricted to a single handgun, the 26 would be it.

[Sal Picante]

I've had a PM9 for years now... I don't carry it quite as often as I once did (working in an NPE), etc. I used to carry it quite often, shoot IDPA matches with it (in BUG (https://practiscore.com/results/new/14545)). A bit big to carry in the pocket (the KelTec P32 really shines here), but certainly capable of that...

p/Boz87otn8n1

Nowadays, it fills a role for me in grab and go for fishing, travel, etc...

p/CEkiIs7pM6h

Pros/Cons:

The trigger is quite workable, but it is more like a revolver Double-Action feel.
The gun is scary accurate, but a short sight radius makes it a challenge to get really solid hits with.
Some of these small guns are dogs - they'll never break in "right". Sell it and find another.

[MattyD380]

I have the Kahr K9.

It's a half inch longer and taller than the PM9 and all steel. But it's still very small and thin--and has been accurate and reliable over the ~1200 rounds I've put through it.

[GAP]

The Kahr P380 is the only gun that I have ever witnessed choke on multiple Speer lawman, Golddots, and Federal Hydra shoks.

The Glock 26 is my favorite CCW, but if you need something smaller (for those rare occasions) I’d go with a j-frame or Ruger LCP.

[arcticlightfighter]

The Kahr P380 is the only gun that I have ever witnessed choke on multiple Speer lawman, Golddots, and Federal Hydra shoks.

The Glock 26 is my favorite CCW, but if you need something smaller (for those rare occasions) I’d go with a j-frame or Ruger LCP.

My Kahr pistols all fed Fullmetal jacket and federal Hydro shock ammunition just fine. My Kahr P380 was actually one of the softest easiest shooting 380 pistols that I’ve owned and for a micro size pistol it was surprisingly easy to shoot in comparison to a Ruger or Smith an Wesson bodyguard equivalent. It was also laser accurate for me .

As a matter of facts it was such an easy gun to shoot well that my girlfriend decided that she wanted it and was able to shoot it better than her Glock 42.

Just my two cents but when I carried a Beretta the Kahe P380 and PM9 off duty or back up guns because the long double action trigger was very consistent with the Berettas

I had never tried them before . Where I need to do it over again I would probably go with the all steel 9 mm version to help with the recoil mitigation.

[DrkBlue]

I shot a PM9 to the point it was no longer reliable, around 10k. Bad customer service soured me on Kahr, separate from the PM9 wearing out. I just do not trust the manufacturer any longer.

Went to Glock. Much less drama.

[Sal Picante]

I shot a PM9 to the point it was no longer reliable, around 10k. Bad customer service soured me on Kahr, separate from the PM9 wearing out. I just do not trust the manufacturer any longer.

Went to Glock. Much less drama.

What wore out?

[DrkBlue]

What wore out?

Mostly the frame was wearing out, I think, too much flex in recoil. There was some malfs so I replaced the spring assembly with a new from the factory around 9000 rounds.

Failures to feed became as common as one in five rounds with new spring assembly. Did not seem to have any relationship to the magazines nor ammo. It also was a bit sensitive on weak wristing in one hand drills, but I always cut some slack there because it a small gun being pushed to the design limits.

Per Kahr customer service I sent it in but it came back just as buggy as before from the factory. I also think the slide stop hole was beginning to hog out, but I didn’t measure the hole early enough to be able to offer conclusive evidence. The PM9 was above 9000 rounds, so I cannot complain too loudly.

Kahr’s customer service is not impressive and since this was my second troubled Kahr, I decided to cut my losses. My assessment is the polymer Kahrs are designed to be carried and rarely shot. I also doubt that packing a .380 into such a small frame will work well with the Kahr design.

[TGS]

Mostly the frame was wearing out, I think, too much flex in recoil. There was some malfs so I replaced the spring assembly with a new from the factory around 9000 rounds.


Considering the Kahr PM9s recoil spring is supposed to be replaced every 1200-1500 rounds or so, it sounds like you caused the gun to fail prematurely through abuse/lack of preventative maintenance.

_________

Alan0354

I had a Kahr P380 and still have a PM9. Given the P380's outstanding trigger, small size, excellent sights and good looks, it would be the best micro-compact 380 on the market if it would actually run. Several of us here have tried them and couldn't get them to run worth shit....I think the most number of rounds I could ever get mine to do without a malfunction was around 30. One guy here, JodyH , even had 3 or so replacement guns from Kahr.

The PM9 is the smallest Kahr I would consider, and also the smallest 9mm on the market I would consider buying. Mine has been reliable. However, realize that Kahrs were among the first generation of micro 9mm guns, and gun companies have learned things since then.

They are hit or miss whether you get a good one. I was extremely lucky in that mine not only works great, but also works great with the extended 7-round mag. Many PM9s which work okay will still have trouble functioning with the extended mag.

The Kahr PM9 is the smallest 9mm you can get that is still reliable, but the slightly larger Glock 43 and SIG P365 are more sure bets if you are not beholden to the PM9's uniquely small size. I wanted it as a pocket and ankle gun, and it was the smallest gun on my agency's approved personally owned weapons list. If the SIG P365 or Glock 43 had existed at that time and were on the list, I would have bought one of those instead.

[DrkBlue]

Considering the Kahr PM9s recoil spring is supposed to be replaced every 1200-1500 rounds or so, it sounds like you caused the gun to fail prematurely through abuse/lack of preventative maintenance.

Cool, I appreciate your crusading for truth. :confused:

Did I state that I had not replaced the previous spring assemblies? I was heavily invested in the platform but I apologize for insufficiently documenting that to your satisfaction. FWIW, I also experienced the rumored issues with PM9s and freezing weather. There was also galling of plastic at the front of forward frame rails. I stand by the clearly labeled supposition the frame was reaching end of life at 10k.

Do you have a comparable round count PM9 experience that is different? If so, great. Please offer up.

I don’t recommend the platform and was transparent about the WHY. I had another Kahr that disassembled itself. Getting Kahr to address that failure was PITA too. I likewise LOVED the Kahr trigger and still have a K40 for a range only gun.

[TGS]

Cool, I appreciate your crusading for truth. :confused:

Did I state that I had not replaced the previous spring assemblies? I was heavily invested in the platform but I apologize for insufficiently documenting that to your satisfaction. FWIW, I also experienced the rumored issues with PM9s and freezing weather. There was also galling of plastic at the front of forward frame rails. I stand by the clearly labeled supposition the frame was reaching end of life at 10k.

Do you have a comparable round count PM9 experience that is different? If so, great. Please offer up.

I don’t recommend the platform and was transparent about the WHY. I had another Kahr that disassembled itself. Getting Kahr to address that failure was PITA too. I likewise LOVED the Kahr trigger and still have a K40 for a range only gun.

The way you wrote it made it sound like you only replaced the recoil spring at 9000 rounds.

Chill dude.

[0ddl0t]

copied & pasted from an earlier kahr thread:


I don't buy the "you either get a good one or a lemon" - I bought a "known lemon" from a frustrated officer for cheap and fixed it with $50 in aftermarket followers. He had sent it back to Kahr, but at that time they hadn't updated their followers so they had no fix with oem parts (for a time, Kahr was even selling lakeline followers on their website).

Most of the 9mm Kahr feed issues can be resolved with new magazine followers. Kahr finally updated their own polymer followers a year or two back, or your can buy aluminum ones from Lakeline LLC out of Washington state. Before that, many people solved it by sanding and reshaping the follower (there is a write-up on kahrtalk), but those followers are still known to break so I prefer to replace them. Kahr magazine springs are often installed backwards which can cause feed issues too - check the owner's manual for the proper orientation.

Also check to see if the feed ramp is making contact with the follower. If so, you can dremel the part of the ramp making contact (search "kahr rampectomy" to find pictures on the internet) or just buy the Lakeline aluminum followers and shoot it enough until the aluminum gets bashed out of the way.

Finally be careful of the slide lock spring when reassembling. It is easy to bump out of place and you made need to use the torx to adjust & tighten it. Be careful not to overtorque.


Broken OEM Kahr follower:
https://a4.pbase.com/o9/90/50290/1/151727869.6CnpigRV.kahrmag.jpg

"Rampectomy" :
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy26/modraker/KahrCM9-BeforeAfterRamp.jpg

Instead of doing a rampectomy, Lakeline aluminum followers will self-clearance during their break-in:
https://lakelinellc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Used-Followers-Resized.jpg

Correct magazine spring orientation:
https://images.app.goo.gl/yx3QGjFD2kXrSmr4A

[Alan0354]

I am seriously looking at Ruger LC380. Just play it safe, when the gun is too small and light, they have to compromise the design like stiffer recoil spring. But then it will be more sensitive to the power of the round, if the round is too weak, it will jam. Even the Ruger LC9 shows a lot more problem in feeding than the LC380. You just cannot have it all, power, weight and size do not co-exist that easy. I am sure if you spend the time to tweak a little at a time, you can make a small semi work, but to what end?

[MattyD380]

I’ve heard that the mid-sized Kahrs are more forgiving vs. the PMs and MKs. I can only say that my experience with a K9 has really left nothing to be desired in 1200 rounds (well, it can be a little rough on the hand after about ~150 rds.) I’ll also say that the K is still a very small gun (equivalent to the P in size) overall. It’s about the size of a Glock 43. Roughly the same weight as a PPK/S

The point being... maybe go for a K or a P. You might mitigate some of the quirks that come along with the super small ones. And I’d guess the steel frame on the K would prevent premature frame wearing. Though I couldn’t really complain in getting 10k out a P or a PM. The K9 was authorized for NYPD off-duty carry, at one time.

[Navin Johnson]

Owned aboot 11 trying to get one I trusted. If they ran they ran. Frame broke on a covert at 5 k. was replaced.... never trusted after that. No reason to deal with that shit show now with all the quality small semi's available.

If G42, G43, Shield, or LC9 were available never would have went down the Kahr road. One person's experience.

[Alan0354]

Owned aboot 11 trying to get one I trusted. If they ran they ran. Frame broke on a covert at 5 k. was replaced.... never trusted after that. No reason to deal with that shit show now with all the quality small semi's available.

If G42, G43, Shield, or LC9 were available never would have went down the Kahr road. One person's experience.

What state you live in? I can at least get S&W Shield in kalifornia.

[octagon]

I have a P380 and CW380 as well as a CW9 still. All have run well and been consistent. I had a PM9 but sold it and got a Glock 43 to try as a replacement. I like the Glock 43 better for shooting as it is softer recoiling and more familiar but it is a touch larger.

I have had the occasional FTFeed on the 380s but rarely and often when the gun is getting dirty. I had 2 Ruger LCPs before getting the Kahrs and liked them well enough but wanted better sights, slide lock and lock back on empty mag so I sold them and went with the Kahrs. If I had to do it again I probably would go with the LCPIIs and save a few bucks but it would be a toss up. I like the grip shape and texture on the LCPIIs and black slide better than the Kahrs but that is personal preference.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I had a PM9 when they first came out and it didn't run. I had no motivation to play with it, so it traded to a G26. Now, that was a long time ago and I have no experience with the latest versions.

[Velo Dog]

Given the P380's outstanding trigger, small size, excellent sights and good looks, it would be the best micro-compact 380 on the market if it would actually run.

The Kahr P380 is even rated for the "+P" loads that Buffalo Bore and Underwood sell.

Mine wasn't even reliable with standard FMJ from Federal and Remington.

[TGS]

What state you live in? I can at least get S&W Shield in kalifornia.

You're kind of all over the map on size of guns, here. The Kahr PM9 and S&W Shield are nowhere near the same size. Ditto the PM9 and LC380. While the size differences on paper may appear small, they're quite substantial in real life. Doubly so the P380 vs these choices.

Instead of asking about random guns, it might be best to lay out what you're trying to do and then finding a gun suited for the role. If you do that, I think you'd understand why a Shield and PM9 shouldn't be competing choices. The Shield is a proper single stack gun for IWB carry....the PM9 is the smallest reliable 9mm you can carry, and is really more appropriate for deep concealment such as pocket carry, belly bands, and ankle rigs. It can be carried IWB if needed, but there are objectively better choices if IWB belt carry is where it will spend its life.

So, what task are you trying to accomplish.....what role are you trying to fill?

[HeavyDuty]

I want to reiterate my earlier comment - in my opinion, OP would do better to get proficient with his new 26 first, and then look at smaller and larger Glocks if needed. An off list G42 or G43 would fill a smaller gun role, and a 19, 17 or 34 for larger. And they would all have the same UX...

[jd950]

For some reason I seem to be drawn to unpopular guns (such as Sig DAK, HK LEM, PX4). So of course I also like the Kahrs. As to both the .380 and 9mm, I prefer the trigger on the Kahr to anything else in the same size class. Actually, I am not sure what else there is in the PM9 size class.

They do benefit from a break-in period, but I would not trust a gun for serious purposes without running at least a couple hundred rounds through it anyway, so I don't care about the break-in. But I have also I have had some Kahrs that worked fine from the first round. The metal framed guns have a better reputation than the polymer, but I am not sure that is based on anything other than how they are used and who owns them.

I have a P380 that has worked without a hitch and that I trust. I first tried the LCP, (two versions) because they were so praised. I cannot shoot them worth a damn. It is probably just the shape or size of my hand, but the things just don't work for me; actually one of the few guns I really hate. I then went to a S&W bodyguard, popular with a number of co-workers as a BUG. It is acceptable. I can, however, shoot the P380 much better. It has run fine with any ammo I have tried and generally, with most new guns I try to run a wide variety of ammo through, to sort out what will and won't work well. It certainly works fine with WW, Fiocchi and Hornady 90 grain ammo. If and when the ammo situation improves, I may get around to running some other stuff through it. I would like to try the Hydra Shok deep. Generally, the .380 is a mediocre round and I am not sure if ammo choice matters that much, but something other than ball that penetrates well is my goal.

My most frequent off duty carry gun is a PM9. It works without a hitch on every ammo brand I would carry in it (HST, Gold Dot, Ranger). I suspect it would be fine with other brands as well; I just haven't tried any.

There have been magazine follower/feed ramp issues for the 9mm. I have not experienced that, but would watch for it or simply replace the follower with the Lakeline metal one on any mag carried for defensive purposes. I have also heard that Kahr changed their followers in the past few years and I have some of those and they are different. Not sure if that has solved the reported issue. you could order followers from Kahr to replace any older versions you might have. The 380 has reportedly had breakages of its striker. I replaced my with one from Lakeline as a precaution.

In case it is of interest, this photo shows the follower, on the right. The change occurred sometime around 2016, but I have no idea how quickly or slowly they became the standard.

67781

An online article that might be of interest:

https://www.officer.com/tactical/firearms/article/20977800/a-focused-look-at-the-kahr-p9

[jd950]

I shot a PM9 to the point it was no longer reliable, around 10k. Bad customer service soured me on Kahr, separate from the PM9 wearing out. I just do not trust the manufacturer any longer.

Went to Glock. Much less drama.

Very curious about what wore out. Assuming it was not the frame, Kahr sells almost every part imaginable on their website and most can be easily replaced. Many small parts on any gun will "wear out." I assume you had the gun and it worked well for an extended time if you put 10,000 rounds through it.

Also curious about the bad customer service issue. What did they screw up?

Not trying to challenge you, I am just curious.

What Glock did you choose to replace the PM9? I am guessing the 43, since there is nothing in the Glock line the same size as the PM9.

[Alan0354]

I want to reiterate my earlier comment - in my opinion, OP would do better to get proficient with his new 26 first, and then look at smaller and larger Glocks if needed. An off list G42 or G43 would fill a smaller gun role, and a 19, 17 or 34 for larger. And they would all have the same UX...

I am living in kalifornia, G42, 43 are not an option. I am not ruling out the bigger ones. I cannot buy one until 3/5/21, so I have time to talk!!!:D

[Alan0354]

You're kind of all over the map on size of guns, here. The Kahr PM9 and S&W Shield are nowhere near the same size. Ditto the PM9 and LC380. While the size differences on paper may appear small, they're quite substantial in real life. Doubly so the P380 vs these choices.

Instead of asking about random guns, it might be best to lay out what you're trying to do and then finding a gun suited for the role. If you do that, I think you'd understand why a Shield and PM9 shouldn't be competing choices. The Shield is a proper single stack gun for IWB carry....the PM9 is the smallest reliable 9mm you can carry, and is really more appropriate for deep concealment such as pocket carry, belly bands, and ankle rigs. It can be carried IWB if needed, but there are objectively better choices if IWB belt carry is where it will spend its life.

So, what task are you trying to accomplish.....what role are you trying to fill?

Ha ha, my goal is to buy more guns!! That's the reason I am open to everything. I just got the Glock 26, and I have a S&W 659, I am leaning to a smaller one, but I am not shutting the door on bigger gun.

Also, I just bought the Glock 26, I am NOT able to buy another one until 3/5/21. So I have time to talk and listen.:D

I am leaning towards Ruger LC380 because it can be converted to 9mm easily. I feel I shouldn't try to get the smallest size of the caliber because reliability goes down with size. LC380 is a good balance for 380.

[Alan0354]

I just realize I was blind, why am I restrict myself to 9mm and 380!!! How about a bigger one like .40 or 10mm!!! Or even 45!!

There are a lot of Glock in .40, 10mm legal in Kalif. Between 10mm and .40, which one is more common and cheaper ammo? I am cheap!!!

[HeavyDuty]

I am living in kalifornia, G42, 43 are not an option. I am not ruling out the bigger ones. I cannot buy one until 3/5/21, so I have time to talk!!!:D

Sure they are. Just not from a dealer.

[TGS]

Ha ha, my goal is to buy more guns!! That's the reason I am open to everything.

If you can't articulate a specific need/use for these micro-compact and sub-compact guns, I would suggest not buying one. They're not fun to shoot, and all else equal are usually less reliable or more finicky than their compact and full size counterparts.

[Alan0354]

If you can't articulate a specific need/use for these micro-compact and sub-compact guns, I would suggest not buying one. They're not fun to shoot, and all else equal are usually less reliable or more finicky than their compact and full size counterparts.

Agree, I pretty much rule those Kahr, Ruger LCP out already. I start with Ruger LC380 as the smallest. I am not even sure I am comfortable with Glock 43. For 9mm, I even worry a little whether my Glock 26 is on the small side.

Yes, from experience and from going through a lot of youtubes and all, power, light weight and small size don't go along.

[zaitcev]

My experience with Kahr is limited, but I'm not going to let it stop me from forming and sharing an opinion. Here it is: the mechanical design has no allowance built in.

In simple words, if you compare Kahs to peer guns in the same caliber, you'll find that the Kahr either has a longer barrel or is smaller. And, it's almost always flatter (unless we compare it with something extreme like Pico). It appears that the space efficiency was more important than reliability.

One result of this quest for compactness is that the feed path on a Kahr is steeper than on other guns, slide overtravel is smaller, which places more demand on magazines. Meanwhile, their factory is unable to maintain the precision and consistency required to make it all work. Result is a gamut of guns that go from amazing to complete lemons and everything in between, depending of the shooter's luck and the way tolerances stacked.

BTW, I had barrel whack followers too. But my followers never cracked. The problem with that was that sometimes it caused magazines to drop, if barrel hit the follower so well that it unseat the magazine latch.

Still, if they ever make a T45, I'm buying one :-)

[MattyD380]

Aside from own experience, everything I’ve read about Kahr is just anecdotal testimony from here and there around the internet (forums and such)... but...

I’ve rarely read of issues with the K9. Or P9. The P380, however, seems to be (often) a train wreck. The PM9 seems mostly good, but sometimes not.

I don’t think the K9 was dropped from the NYPD because it didn’t work. I read that they asked Kahr to give the gun a 12lb trigger pull. Rather than re-engineer the trigger, they said no. Or something like that.

Anyway...

I feel like the K9 (which is the original Kahr design) is fairly proven. Maybe not, like, Beretta 92 proven... but I guess as proven as 25 year old micro gun can be.

Also, I’d love to have a T9.

[Navin Johnson]

The K9 and P9 I'm sure sell far less than the PM9 or PM 380.

The p9 is as big or bigger than a shield or a g43 so why bother.

The PM9 is probably the smallest 9mm that has a chance of functioning properly.

The NYPD had problems with trigger springs failing a lot on the Kahr's

They are also quite expensive.

I was into them before the g43 or LC9 or shield etc.

Would take my chances on the G42 before a PM9 understanding the many drawbacks of a 380.

YMMV.

[Alan0354]

The K9 and P9 I'm sure sell far less than the PM9 or PM 380.

The p9 is as big or bigger than a shield or a g43 so why bother.

The PM9 is probably the smallest 9mm that has a chance of functioning properly.

The NYPD had problems with trigger springs failing a lot on the Kahr's

They are also quite expensive.

I was into them before the g43 or LC9 or shield etc.

Would take my chances on the G42 before a PM9 understanding the many drawbacks of a 380.

YMMV.

How's your Ruger LC9? I can buy LC380 that can be converted to LC9.

[Catshooter]

For me the things that set the P380 out from other 380 was the fact that you can get real sights and real night sights for them. That and they shoot. With a Lothar Walther barrel, they can shoot. Mine will keep most rounds inside 2.5 inches at 25 yards. And mine functions just fine.


Cat

[MattyD380]

I find my K9 very accurate as well. It will produce extremely tight groups. And the trigger is... not quite like anything else. For me, this is what sets it apart from a Shield, PPS, G43, etc.

[iWander]

Considering the Kahr PM9s recoil spring is supposed to be replaced every 1200-1500 rounds or so, it sounds like you caused the gun to fail prematurely through abuse/lack of preventative maintenance.

_________

Alan0354

I had a Kahr P380 and still have a PM9. Given the P380's outstanding trigger, small size, excellent sights and good looks, it would be the best micro-compact 380 on the market if it would actually run. Several of us here have tried them and couldn't get them to run worth shit....I think the most number of rounds I could ever get mine to do without a malfunction was around 30. One guy here, JodyH , even had 3 or so replacement guns from Kahr.

The PM9 is the smallest Kahr I would consider, and also the smallest 9mm on the market I would consider buying. Mine has been reliable. However, realize that Kahrs were among the first generation of micro 9mm guns, and gun companies have learned things since then.

They are hit or miss whether you get a good one. I was extremely lucky in that mine not only works great, but also works great with the extended 7-round mag. Many PM9s which work okay will still have trouble functioning with the extended mag.

The Kahr PM9 is the smallest 9mm you can get that is still reliable, but the slightly larger Glock 43 and SIG P365 are more sure bets if you are not beholden to the PM9's uniquely small size. I wanted it as a pocket and ankle gun, and it was the smallest gun on my agency's approved personally owned weapons list. If the SIG P365 or Glock 43 had existed at that time and were on the list, I would have bought one of those instead.+1 Everything TGS said. I carried a PM9, P9 or K9 Kahr for over 20 years until the P365 was released and shown reliable. The PM9 was my favorite and my full time EDC & BUG at work. It worked perfectly AIWB, OWB, in a good pocket holster and on the ankle. It also recoiled less and was easier to shoot than my wife's G43s. I've never had an issue with the 6 Kahrs I owned as long as I kept them clean and followed the replacement parts schedule. The light, smooth, revolver-like trigger was perfect for it's intended purpose and the full-sized sights made accurate shooting easy. I'd highly recommend a PM9 if you want the slimmest, smallest, most reliable 9mm possible.

If size isn't as much of a factor, go for the P365XL. It handles and shoots like a much larger, heavier gun and the samples I've shot are very accurate. I would've bought one instead of my regular 365 if they were available then.

I don't care for polymer .380 guns as I've never seen any of them run reliably for any length of time and the sights and relative size make accurate shooting difficult beyond 15'. Qualifying cops and CCW holders consistently have issues and breakages with them. That includes ALL the Rugers, the Pico, Keltecs, Kahrs, Taurus, S&W, etc. The ONLY polymer .380 I'd recommend is a current production G42. The sights are usable and the recoil almost non-existent.

Good luck!

[Ed L]

For what it is worth I have 2 Kahr PM-9s. One was bought in in 2003 another bought in 2016ish. I have about 1500-2000ish rounds between both of them. Both required a minimal break-in-- things like 1 or 2 failures to feed and failures of the slide to lock back in the first few magazines. When I bought my first one it was the smallest 9mm semi auto made.

It's best use is as a pocket holster carry gun that is very flat and doesn't print in a distinguishable way, while still providing a 9mm with good sights and a decent trigger. It is especially good for something to carry in dress or suit pants. Even though it is a D/A only trigger, it tends to be a relatively light and smooth D/A trigger, and I shoot tighter groups with the Kahr PM-9s than I do with my 9mm S&W Shield which has an apex trigger kit installed/

I have had had good luck with them, which is significant because I am typically someone who has an unusually large amount of issues with guns. But I have heard an uncomfortable number of issues that other people have experienced with them.