Airsoft Pistols or Blue Guns for RDS Training?

[frozentundra]

I want to get into pistol RDS eventually, but the time isn't right for me to invest in optics, proprietary milling of carry guns, and more rapidly depleting my precious ammo reserves.

Does it make sense to build a cheap inert training analog to develop certain skills in the meantime? I'm interested in the ability to practice things like dot acquisition on presentations, right and left handed, from awkward positions, in varying light, and while moving. I also like that inert training guns can safely be left sitting out 24/7. They can be picked up off a coffee table frequently throughout the day and used without having to worry about strict logistical safety protocol that real guns demand. I could probably put a lot of work in over 6 months or a year.

However, I worry that I may also deeply ingrain some bad habits without knowing better or having livefire feedback. That would be very counterproductive.

Sig makes an Airsoft RDS designed to go on a blowback p320 for $50. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022784595 I'm sure it sucks bad, but perhaps it could work in this application? I've already got a Ring's blue training gun at home with extra holsters that would accommodate a RDS.

Has anyone ever tried anything similar? Better ideas?
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[rcbusmc24]

We had a RMR mounted on a Balor Mount on a UTM Glock Slide last weekend for a force on force class, If you have a spare glock sitting around you could just pick up one of the inert replacement barrels (like this - https://cpwsa.com/glock-specific-parts/753-glock-training-barrel.html ) and mount up a dot on a adaptor...

Otherwise I get a bunch of value out of both blue guns and airsoft pistols but I don't have any equipped out with dots, but I imagine that they could work the same. I do have some UTM barrels that I use in my Langdon Berettas, including one with a dot at times, that allows me to practice both live and with the occasional UTM rounds the step in and first rolling trigger press better than a lot of other things other than live fire....

[EricM]

frozentundra, what is your primary pistol platform? Since a lot of the work will be refining your index, having an exact match of the grip would be ideal.

I'm just starting the red dot pistol journey myself, but it seems one area something like a blue gun could fall a little short is learning to break the shot without waiting for the dot to settle. But being aware of that you can probably train around it, such as by drawing to a target and then immediately transitioning to another target after seeing what you need to see and "firing" the first shot.

[RJ]

Following with great interest.

I’m just starting on dots. Bought a G34 MOS, currently waiting on a mount plate. Meanwhile I’ve got my 507c on the MOS plate dry. I find that the trickiest part is changing my sight picture to find the dot using constant target focus. I watched an Aaron Cowan video where he suggests thinking of placing the rear slide cover plate opposite your nose as an index. This helped a lot, since unlike iron sights that you have a constant visual reference on the present, you only see the dot at the last second.

I have a blue gun for my currently dot-less G48. I use it for holster manipulations. I treat it “like a gun” tho so as not to instill any bad habits, like you said.

Good thread.

[Bergeron]

I've found the various Chinese Airsoft copies of RMRs useful in the blue gun application. There are many things to dislike about Chinese copy optics, but I find the that they're actually useful in this regard.

[Archer1440]

It took a bit of ingenuity, but I managed to mount a spare RMR on an all-metal VP9 full-blowback green gas pistol, and find it works pretty well for tracking the streak. It’s a little weird using an optic worth three times the cost of the platform, but like I said, it’s a spare.

I like the blue gun for certain things, but the lack of a moveable trigger is a big downside.

[frozentundra]

frozentundra, what is your primary pistol platform? Since a lot of the work will be refining your index, having an exact match of the grip would be ideal.

I'm just starting the red dot pistol journey myself, but it seems one area something like a blue gun could fall a little short is learning to break the shot without waiting for the dot to settle. But being aware of that you can probably train around it, such as by drawing to a target and then immediately transitioning to another target after seeing what you need to see and "firing" the first shot.

I am currently shooting 9mm S&W M&Ps (2.0 compact, 1.0 compact, and Shield). I've moved here from 9mm Glocks. Strangely, I don't find it any more difficult to switch between G19 and M&P compacts than I do between M&P compacts and the Shield with regard to indexing the sights. This surprised me. Granted this is with irons and not dots. I have intert training guns for both M&P and G19 form factor.

Thanks for the input, these types of suggestions are exactly what I was hoping for. I wouldn't have considered the issue quite this way with no experience shooting dots.

[JCN]

67372

I made this for training a couple years ago.
So that people wouldn’t freak out if they saw it.

[DDTSGM]

67372

I made this for training a couple years ago.
So that people wouldn’t freak out if they saw it.

Awesome!

[DrkBlue]

I test drove a Tokyo Marui G26 and cheap RDS for two weeks to test the AIWB concept.
So yes, airsoft does work.

[EricM]

I ordered one of the SIG AIR sights right after reading the first post, as I've been looking for a cheap sight from a name brand that is readily available and likely to be of more consistent quality than no-name knockoffs. I'm pleased to report it is at least as good as one could expect for the money. Physically it is extremely similar to a sight I have that was sold as the Weaver Micro Red Dot Sight a few years ago, but thankfully the SIG has a much clearer tint. The SIG AIR uses the FastFire mounting pattern, though it would not fit something that was precisely milled for a FastFire due to the button on the front and different external dimensions. In my opinion this is better than the RMR pattern if you're going to be drilling holes in a blue gun, as the holes would not be so close to the edge of the slide. The SIG AIR uses a CR2032 mounted underneath the sight. The dot looks crisp and has 5 brightness levels. It doesn't get quite as bright as the RMR or Holosun but seems adequate. There is an elevation adjustment screw on top and windage adjustment screw on the right, along with two locking screws on the back. My experience zeroing a sight with similar adjustments on a .22 pistol a while back was not great, but it should be adequate for the intended purpose.

Below is a photo of the SIG AIR alongside a Burris FastFire 3, Trijicon RMR Type 1, and Holosun 507C X2. If you ignore the emitter housing hump, the SIG sits about 0.01" lower than the RMR and Holosun, with a window that from the shooter's perspective is just slightly larger than the RMR and smaller than the Holosun. The FastFire sits higher than the SIG due to its top-loading battery and has a window that is a tiny bit larger. Overall the SIG AIR seems like a good match to the RMR and Holosun for dry fire.

https://cloverleafpistolgear.com/f/021421/1.jpg