More Vang Comp goodness

[LHS]

Finally got my stamp back for this beauty. It's a full-house Vang Comp 870 SBS, with Vang's ghost ring sights and optics rail, barrel work with abbreviated porting on the 14" tube, +1 extension, follower and big dome safety (albeit in a lefty trigger pack, which I'll be swapping out for a righty shortly), Magpul stock, Mesa sidesaddle, and an old Laser Products-marked forend with a replacement LED bulb assembly. Best part is the provenance of the gun: the receiver's engraved with the emblem of the Phoenix PD "Special Assignments Unit", i.e. SWAT. It's good to bring this one back to Phoenix where it belongs.

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[Balisong]

SUPER cool!! I didn't know you were local.

I could very easily be wrong about this, but I thought Phoenix SAU went to Benellis a long time ago. Either way, glad this got back into circulation instead of being melted down. I'd love any gun marked Phx SAU

[Up1911Fan]

Finally got my stamp back for this beauty. It's a full-house Vang Comp 870 SBS, with Vang's ghost ring sights and optics rail, barrel work with abbreviated porting on the 14" tube, +1 extension, follower and big dome safety (albeit in a lefty trigger pack, which I'll be swapping out for a righty shortly), Magpul stock, Mesa sidesaddle, and an old Laser Products-marked forend with a replacement LED bulb assembly. Best part is the provenance of the gun: the receiver's engraved with the emblem of the Phoenix PD "Special Assignments Unit", i.e. SWAT. It's good to bring this one back to Phoenix where it belongs.

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67251

That's awesome! Considering the same thing with an 870 I have. What was the turnaround for both the work and the stamp?

[LHS]

That's awesome! Considering the same thing with an 870 I have. What was the turnaround for both the work and the stamp?

I didn't have this one built, it was a police trade-in I found on the secondary market, so I don't know how long the work took. The stamp was submitted last May and finally came back last week.

[LHS]

SUPER cool!! I didn't know you were local.

I could very easily be wrong about this, but I thought Phoenix SAU went to Benellis a long time ago. Either way, glad this got back into circulation instead of being melted down. I'd love any gun marked Phx SAU

It's been a minute, but I'm pretty sure I saw one of them in a class in 2007 with a 14" Benelli, but it's possible they had both in service.

[Bruce Cartwright]

Finally got my stamp back for this beauty. It's a full-house Vang Comp 870 SBS, with Vang's ghost ring sights and optics rail, barrel work with abbreviated porting on the 14" tube, +1 extension, follower and big dome safety (albeit in a lefty trigger pack, which I'll be swapping out for a righty shortly), Magpul stock, Mesa sidesaddle, and an old Laser Products-marked forend with a replacement LED bulb assembly. Best part is the provenance of the gun: the receiver's engraved with the emblem of the Phoenix PD "Special Assignments Unit", i.e. SWAT. It's good to bring this one back to Phoenix where it belongs.

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LHS:

What kind of LED unit are you using in your fore-end? Thanks in advance for your help on this. I used a 14 inch 870 when I was chasing bad guys. It is a great platform. Nice blaster by the way.

Bruce

[LHS]

LHS:

What kind of LED unit are you using in your fore-end? Thanks in advance for your help on this. I used a 14 inch 870 when I was chasing bad guys. It is a great platform. Nice blaster by the way.

Bruce

I'm not sure what's in this one. It's not marked at all, but it's clearly an LED assembly of some sort rather than the original incandescent module. It looks a lot like the old Surefire replacement LED bulb assemblies except for the complete lack of markings. I'd guess it's about 100-120 lumens, it's not terribly bright but works well enough for target ID indoors.

I've used Surefire's replacement LEDs in other forends of this time and they work well, albeit without the level of output you see in modern lights. I've been wanting to try out Malkoff's replacement heads, as they're 320 and 450 (1-cell and 2-cell, respectively) lumens, but this one will likely stay as-is for historical purposes. I love seeing how guns of a given era reflect the knowledge, preferences, tactics etc of that time and place, and I have another 14" Vang gun that I use for training and teaching so this one will likely remain as I got it.

It's interesting because I will bet money the gun was built in the last 10 years, but it's got an ancient forend on it. Probably something lying around the PD armory from previous builds. About 15 of these guns hit the market at the same time, and I've seen several of the others. The majority had similar-era forends.

All in all the gun's in reasonable shape. Ejection's a skosh weak with hollow dummy rounds, but a trip back to the mothership should solve that. The action is smooth as glass, well worn in. I can't wait to get it out to the range and see how it runs.

[DDTSGM]

Ejection's a skosh weak with hollow dummy rounds, but a trip back to the mothership should solve that.

Serious question, you obviously know your way around 870's, what do you think Vang would do to make ejection more sure? I'm assuming you know what an 870 ejector and spring ought to look like, is there something else to look at?

[LHS]

Serious question, you obviously know your way around 870's, what do you think Vang would do to make ejection more sure? I'm assuming you know what an 870 ejector and spring ought to look like, is there something else to look at?

Did you ever watch that old Clint Eastwood movie "Kelly's Heroes"? There's a scene where Eastwood and Telly Savalas go to talk to Donald Sutherland's tank commander, "Oddball", and they find him sitting around drinking wine while someone works on the tank. Savalas asks him why he's not helping fix the Sherman, and Oddball just replies "I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work." That was me with 870s for many years. I could do basic parts replacement and swapping, but armorer-level tasks were beyond my skill level. In the last little while I've started trying to address that so I can fix some things myself, but I'm not quite up to the level of drilling out rivets and replacing ejectors.

[Tabasco]

Serious question, you obviously know your way around 870's, what do you think Vang would do to make ejection more sure? I'm assuming you know what an 870 ejector and spring ought to look like, is there something else to look at?

I have an 870 that I sent to Wilson for the "Remington Steal" rebuild package. As part of that package, they convert it to 3", which involves replacing the 2-3/4" ejector with a 3" one. With my gun, I found the ejection to be kind of sloppy and sluggish after the conversion. I have another 870 which has not been converted to 3" (circa 1971) with positive ejection so I could a/b both of them and diagnose the problem. What I found was that the 3" conversion was releasing a shell from the tube before the spent shell was fully ejected, and interfering with the process.

What I did to fix this was grind down the front tab on the end of the right shall latch (right when the loading port is facing the ground, left when the loading port is pointing to the sky), this delayed the shell release from the tube until the spent shell ejected fully. Worked great. I also added a Volquarsten extractor which required some fitting with a dremel tool, probably not as necessary at the shell latch adjustment but didn't hurt. I'm pretty sure regarding the left/right latch description, whichever shell latch holds the shell in the tube while the empty is ejecting, then releases the new shell. You might want to get a replacement shell latch just in case if you try this. Always good to have both new latches as spares on hand, as they do wear out over time. I got mine via Brownelles a few years ago.

Note that as per Brownelles, the latches do not need to be staked to work properly. Staking makes disassembly/reassembly easier, but is not need for proper function.

Note: The tab on the front of the shell latch that I ground down is what interfaces with the action bar on the pump tube that fits over the magazine. It looks like a 1911 in someones hand to me. I ground (shortened) the barrel of the 1911 (my visual), which delays the release of the new shell during the ejection process. Work the action slowly with dummy shells and watch the interaction between the latches and the action bars before trying this, you need to understand exactly what's happening.

[Bruce Cartwright]

I'm not sure what's in this one. It's not marked at all, but it's clearly an LED assembly of some sort rather than the original incandescent module. It looks a lot like the old Surefire replacement LED bulb assemblies except for the complete lack of markings. I'd guess it's about 100-120 lumens, it's not terribly bright but works well enough for target ID indoors.

I've used Surefire's replacement LEDs in other forends of this time and they work well, albeit without the level of output you see in modern lights. I've been wanting to try out Malkoff's replacement heads, as they're 320 and 450 (1-cell and 2-cell, respectively) lumens, but this one will likely stay as-is for historical purposes. I love seeing how guns of a given era reflect the knowledge, preferences, tactics etc of that time and place, and I have another 14" Vang gun that I use for training and teaching so this one will likely remain as I got it.

It's interesting because I will bet money the gun was built in the last 10 years, but it's got an ancient forend on it. Probably something lying around the PD armory from previous builds. About 15 of these guns hit the market at the same time, and I've seen several of the others. The majority had similar-era forends.

All in all the gun's in reasonable shape. Ejection's a skosh weak with hollow dummy rounds, but a trip back to the mothership should solve that. The action is smooth as glass, well worn in. I can't wait to get it out to the range and see how it runs.

LHS:

Thanks for the input. I am not surprised about the Malkoff bulbs being an option. I have used them for years to convert my old incandescent Surefire handheld lights to LED. I will start looking for a suitable replacement from Malkoff.

As to the possibility of a recent build with older Surefire components, that doesn't surprise me either. Lots of 870 and MP5 Surefire fore-ends got recycled in my old outfit. While Surefire products tend to be pretty expensive, I have found the older weapon mounted light platforms to be pretty much bomb proof or "agent" proof.

Concerning the historical aspect of your gun, I think it is wise to keep track of those things. One thing I typically saw among guns used by folks who actually hunted criminals was a simplicity of set up. A reliable 870 with a light, decent sling and good sights got the job done then and now. The other thing was a smoothness of the action. These type of hard use guns had exterior wear but the action was very smooth and well worn in. That indicated significant use/practice by the person using that gun.

Thanks again,

Bruce

[BobM]

LHS:

Thanks for the input. I am not surprised about the Malkoff bulbs being an option. I have used them for years to convert my old incandescent Surefire handheld lights to LED. I will start looking for a suitable replacement from Malkoff.

As to the possibility of a recent build with older Surefire components, that doesn't surprise me either. Lots of 870 and MP5 Surefire fore-ends got recycled in my old outfit. While Surefire products tend to be pretty expensive, I have found the older weapon mounted light platforms to be pretty much bomb proof or "agent" proof.

Concerning the historical aspect of your gun, I think it is wise to keep track of those things. One thing I typically saw among guns used by folks who actually hunted criminals was a simplicity of set up. A reliable 870 with a light, decent sling and good sights got the job done then and now. The other thing was a smoothness of the action. These type of hard use guns had exterior wear but the action was very smooth and well worn in. That indicated significant use/practice by the person using that gun.

Thanks again,

Bruce
Bruce, a few years ago I put a Malkoff upgrade LED unit in my old Sure Fire forend. It’s a great improvement.

[gato naranja]

Finally got my stamp back for this beauty. It's a full-house Vang Comp 870 SBS, with Vang's ghost ring sights and optics rail, barrel work with abbreviated porting on the 14" tube, +1 extension, follower and big dome safety (albeit in a lefty trigger pack, which I'll be swapping out for a righty shortly), Magpul stock, Mesa sidesaddle, and an old Laser Products-marked forend with a replacement LED bulb assembly.

That is about as kick-ass as an 870 is going to get. Any ballpark figures for the weight of that setup when empty?

I assume the plate on that +1 extension has the sling slot oriented on the left... was the Phoenix unit running slings on these through the side hardware of the Magpul stocks?

[Bruce Cartwright]

Bruce, a few years ago I put a Malkoff upgrade LED unit in my old Sure Fire forend. It’s a great improvement.

BobM:

Any idea what the specific model was? This upgrade is on my "To Do" list. Thanks in advance.

Bruce

[BobM]

BobM:

Any idea what the specific model was? This upgrade is on my "To Do" list. Thanks in advance.

Bruce

I ordered off the website. It was a specific model for the SF forend. I’ll see if I can find a link.

https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/surefire-forend-upgrades

[SD]

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Is the Laser Products Corp shotgun light a predecessor to the Surefire company?
(my nightstand gun)

[GearFondler]

Is the Laser Products Corp shotgun light a predecessor to the Surefire company?
(my nightstand gun)

Yes... The name was changed early on in their history.
The original 6P's were also Laser Products.

[SD]

Yes... The name was changed early on in their history.
The original 6P's were also Laser Products.
Next time a code becomes available for Malkoff will use it to upgrade this one.

[LHS]

Yup, the old "Laser Products Corp" of Fountain Valley :) Old-school cool, and in my opinion still the most ergonomic of their offerings.

I would love to see Surefire re-issue this pattern with modernized output and reduced weight, it would be the best way to mount a light on a shotgun. Everything else is more or less a kludge, and the later SF forends are... less ergonomic. Lots of ridges and bumps and things to jam into your hand under recoil.

[LHS]

That is about as kick-ass as an 870 is going to get. Any ballpark figures for the weight of that setup when empty?

I assume the plate on that +1 extension has the sling slot oriented on the left... was the Phoenix unit running slings on these through the side hardware of the Magpul stocks?

Yep, it's got a sling plate on the left side of the gun, which is interesting since it's also got a left-handed trigger group in it. Makes me wonder if it was used by a lefty who didn't use a sling, or had some other method of attaching a sling to the gun.

[SD]

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several weeks back a P-Fer posted about the Wilderness belt, have to say the info they posted was spot on, it is very well made belt.

[TCinVA]

Serious question, you obviously know your way around 870's, what do you think Vang would do to make ejection more sure? I'm assuming you know what an 870 ejector and spring ought to look like, is there something else to look at?Vang Comp makes an improved ejector housing that is designed to help keep a loose magazine cap/magazine tube from destroying the ejector housing in the gun. It looks like this: The nose on the ejector fills the alignment cutout in the barrel more fully and keeps the barrel from wiggling around. The barrel is only held to the receiver by the force of the magazine cap/magazine tube. That will work loose in a remarkably small number of rounds or when bumping around in the back of the cruiser. It's wise for anyone using a shotgun to frequently check the tightness of the cap/tube before, during, and after a shooting session. The Wilson and Vang mag tubes seem to be much, much better about this than the factory magazine caps, though. Whether the new ejector housing does anything to prolong the life of the ejector spring itself, I don't know. The springs can stick out a bit or they can be more laid down even with the ejector housing as you see in the picture. The real tell, though, is whether or not the gun is properly ejecting. 870's can also fail to eject positively if the extractor spring and plunger aren't moving freely.

[TCinVA]

I sent my two guns to Vang immediately after they came in to my FFL. I had them re-armor the guns and refinish them in Cerakote Burnt Bronze with NP3 coating on the working parts. The only thing I don't like about them is the porting. Porting is unnecessary if you are using solid recoil mitigation technique, the port holes tend to hold on to fouling and crud making it more difficult to clean the bore, and most importantly the rear-most port holes are perfectly placed to get the tip of your thumb if you aren't using the Surefire forend. One actually needs the old school SF forends that came with these guns to act as a hand stop.

[LHS]

I've come to appreciate the ports on 18" or longer guns, they tend to make any muzzle flash divert off to the sides, leaving a clear view to the target and sights. But yeah, my big ol' paws tend to get close to them on 14" tubes so I have omitted them on M'Bogo. The Surefire forend does seem to ameliorate the issue, at least in dry-fire handling. The proof'll be in the pudding when I get it to the range.

[Bruce Cartwright]

I ordered off the website. It was a specific model for the SF forend. I’ll see if I can find a link.

https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/surefire-forend-upgrades

BobM:

Thank you for providing the link. That simplifies things. Much appreciated.

Bruce

[Willard]

Needs to be where the 14" is available to an allegedly free people and not prohibited 'cause "reasons".

[TCinVA]

I've come to appreciate the ports on 18" or longer guns, they tend to make any muzzle flash divert off to the sides, leaving a clear view to the target and sights. But yeah, my big ol' paws tend to get close to them on 14" tubes so I have omitted them on M'Bogo. The Surefire forend does seem to ameliorate the issue, at least in dry-fire handling. The proof'll be in the pudding when I get it to the range.

I thought it would probably be fine.

I was running a demo for some private instruction and in the midst of a string of fire (shot as rapidly as possible...because it's what I do) I had to stop and take a look to make sure the end of my thumb was still intact.

As lovely as the guns are, I can't put one of these in the hands of a client because of those ports.

[Guerrero]

As lovely as the guns are, I can't put one of these in the hands of a client because of those ports.

You ok with the ports on an 18" barrel?

[TCinVA]

You ok with the ports on an 18" barrel?

They are far enough forward on the longer barrels that none of your digits end up in the kind of proximity that nipped my thumb.

I'm still not a huge fan because it seems to make the barrel harder to clean and if schmutz accumulates around the ports it seems to grab at the wad for Flight Control...at least on some barrels.

Besides, with solid recoil mitigation the ports aren't necessary. But they are loud as hell.

If I had my druthers I'd skip them...but I'm not going to throw rocks at anyone who chooses to get them.

[DDTSGM]

Vang Comp makes an improved ejector housing that is designed to help keep a loose magazine cap/magazine tube from destroying the ejector housing in the gun. It looks like this: The nose on the ejector fills the alignment cutout in the barrel more fully and keeps the barrel from wiggling around. The barrel is only held to the receiver by the force of the magazine cap/magazine tube. That will work loose in a remarkably small number of rounds or when bumping around in the back of the cruiser. It's wise for anyone using a shotgun to frequently check the tightness of the cap/tube before, during, and after a shooting session. The Wilson and Vang mag tubes seem to be much, much better about this than the factory magazine caps, though. Whether the new ejector housing does anything to prolong the life of the ejector spring itself, I don't know. The springs can stick out a bit or they can be more laid down even with the ejector housing as you see in the picture. The real tell, though, is whether or not the gun is properly ejecting. 870's can also fail to eject positively if the extractor spring and plunger aren't moving freely.

Thanks. I did not know they made those, a marked improvement of the original it would seem. I've replaced a few of those on LE shotguns where they are not too particular about the appearance of the rivet heads - I can get them fairly smooth, good enough to cold blue and cover with a side saddle. Always wondered if a guy could work something out with button head cap screws.

ETA: that color looks perfect on those shotguns, nice looking machines!

[DDTSGM]

I have an 870 that I sent to Wilson for the "Remington Steal" rebuild package. As part of that package, they convert it to 3", which involves replacing the 2-3/4" ejector with a 3" one. With my gun, I found the ejection to be kind of sloppy and sluggish after the conversion. I have another 870 which has not been converted to 3" (circa 1971) with positive ejection so I could a/b both of them and diagnose the problem. What I found was that the 3" conversion was releasing a shell from the tube before the spent shell was fully ejected, and interfering with the process.

What I did to fix this was grind down the front tab on the end of the right shall latch (right when the loading port is facing the ground, left when the loading port is pointing to the sky), this delayed the shell release from the tube until the spent shell ejected fully. Worked great. I also added a Volquarsten extractor which required some fitting with a dremel tool, probably not as necessary at the shell latch adjustment but didn't hurt. I'm pretty sure regarding the left/right latch description, whichever shell latch holds the shell in the tube while the empty is ejecting, then releases the new shell. You might want to get a replacement shell latch just in case if you try this. Always good to have both new latches as spares on hand, as they do wear out over time. I got mine via Brownelles a few years ago.

Note that as per Brownelles, the latches do not need to be staked to work properly. Staking makes disassembly/reassembly easier, but is not need for proper function.

Note: The tab on the front of the shell latch that I ground down is what interfaces with the action bar on the pump tube that fits over the magazine. It looks like a 1911 in someones hand to me. I ground (shortened) the barrel of the 1911 (my visual), which delays the release of the new shell during the ejection process. Work the action slowly with dummy shells and watch the interaction between the latches and the action bars before trying this, you need to understand exactly what's happening.

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you found, I copied and pasted into my 870 file.

I wonder what caused that, I'm pretty sure the latches are the same in standard and magnum receivers, as they are the same receiver except for differing ejector lengths and markings. The 3.5 inch super magnum receiver is different, though.

Thanks again!

[Tabasco]

Thanks for taking the time to explain what you found, I copied and pasted into my 870 file.

I wonder what caused that, I'm pretty sure the latches are the same in standard and magnum receivers, as they are the same receiver except for differing ejector lengths and markings. The 3.5 inch super magnum receiver is different, though.

Thanks again!

No idea. I just kept getting stovepipes and sluggish ejection in general. My older 870 worked fine, with quite spunky ejection. My problem 870 was make in 1979 FWIW. It works great now, on all levels.