Tara TM9 Schmeisser SLP9 DA/SA striker pistol

[octagon]

Does anyone have any info on this pistol? It is the same gun originally made by Tara an Aerospace industry from Montenegro but then imported by Schmeisser to the US. The DARE trigger system works like a DA/SA trigger with 3mm reset after first shot and second strike capability. DA pull is supposed to be 6lbs or so. It is very Glock like including the slide,striker,striker block and general appearance. I'm curious about how the trigger works being so Glock like. I thought the TDA folks might know something about it or be interested.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/22/shot-2016-schmeisser-slp-9/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/01/update-montenegrin-tara-tm-9-pistol/

https://www.tara-aerospace.com/datasheets/datasheet_TM-9.pdf

These 2 YT videos have some footage of the internals and workings but are in Spanish and another language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6BNeWUfqcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goYs0CQWdz4

I'm not looking to get one just interested in how it works or a good schematic.

[spyderco monkey]

Does anyone have any info on this pistol? It is the same gun originally made by Tara an Aerospace industry from Montenegro but then imported by Schmeisser to the US. The DARE trigger system works like a DA/SA trigger with 3mm reset after first shot and second strike capability. DA pull is supposed to be 6lbs or so. It is very Glock like including the slide,striker,striker block and general appearance. I'm curious about how the trigger works being so Glock like. I thought the TDA folks might know something about it or be interested.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/22/shot-2016-schmeisser-slp-9/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/01/update-montenegrin-tara-tm-9-pistol/

https://www.tara-aerospace.com/datasheets/datasheet_TM-9.pdf

These 2 YT videos have some footage of the internals and workings but are in Spanish and another language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6BNeWUfqcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goYs0CQWdz4

I'm not looking to get one just interested in how it works or a good schematic.

If I had to guess, I imagine they are using the DA/SA Striker design of the Walther P99.

Which is a cool design.

[Elwin]

It looks like it doesn’t have a decocker and isn’t actually DA/SA exactly. It strikes me as more like a striker fired LEM. A long DA pull but with a short reset that allows subsequent shots to be more SA- like until one stops firing and lets the trigger return all the way back forward, which means the next pull will be the full DA stroke again.

But that’s just my guess based on incomplete information - I’m ready to be proven wrong. Though it does seem cool.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Escuché todo el vídeo en Español. Bien explicado, pero falta una cosita. Oh, sorry... :) I listened to all of the video in Spanish. It is well explained but it is lacking one function. The part that I find missing in the video is a demonstration of trigger reset after cycling.

In the explanation that the poster made the striker is always forward, resting on the striker block until the trigger bar brings it all the way back to cock it and then a release lets it go forward.

The trigger bar is set up to not only do a full double action pull, but also to deactivate the striker block. Second strike capability happens in the same way that a double action pistol would have.

Disassembly does not require pulling the trigger. The striker is already forward and would be again after trigger pull, anyway.

Though there are so many things that are similar to the Glock 17 that he compares it to as he is speaking, the biggest difference would be the striker starts from all the way forward and must be cocked and released by the trigger.

I would be curious to see the trigger reset after cycling.

In the MilMag video reset after cycling seems more like a double action only.

[TheNewbie]

Escuché todo el vídeo en Español. Bien explicado, pero falta una cosita. Oh, sorry... :) I listened to all of the video in Spanish. It is well explained but it is lacking one function. The part that I find missing in the video is a demonstration of trigger reset after cycling.

In the explanation that the poster made the striker is always forward, resting on the striker block until the trigger bar brings it all the way back to cock it and then a release lets it go forward.

The trigger bar is set up to not only do a full double action pull, but also to deactivate the striker block. Second strike capability happens in the same way that a double action pistol would have.

Disassembly does not require pulling the trigger. The striker is already forward and would be again after trigger pull, anyway.

Though there are so many things that are similar to the Glock 17 that he compares it to as he is speaking, the biggest difference would be the striker starts from all the way forward and must be cocked and released by the trigger.

I would be curious to see the trigger reset after cycling.

In the MilMag video reset after cycling seems more like a double action only.



Donde aprendiste tu espanol?



A more true DAO like trigger on a Glock would be interesting. Especially combined with a SCD.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Donde aprendiste tu espanol?...

Mientras yo criaba en Nueva York había mucha gente de Colombia y Puerto Rico. Me encantaba el idioma y estudié algunos años en escuela secundaria. Después de servir en el militar me encontré en Tejas donde hay mucha gente Mexicana. Me lo enseñaba en el usar. Practicando platicando... ja ja.

Translation: while I was growing up in New York there were a lot of people from Colombia and Puerto Rico. I found the language charming and studied a couple of years of it in high school.
After serving in the military I found myself in Texas where there are a lot of people that are Mexican. I taught myself by reason of use. Practicing while chatting with people ha, ha.

[TheNewbie]

Mientras yo criaba en Nueva York había mucha gente de Columbia y Puerto Rico. Me encantaba el idioma y estudié algunos años en escuela secundaria. Después de servir en el militar me encontré en Tejas donde hay mucha gente Mexicana. Me lo enseñaba en el usar. Practicando platicando... ja ja.

Translation: while I was growing up in New York there were a lot of people from Columbia and Puerto Rico. I found the language charming and studied a couple of years of it in high school.
After serving in the military I found myself in Texas where there were a lot of people that were Mexican. I taught myself by reason of use. Practicing while chatting with people ha, ha.

Excelente!


Your spanish is better than mine, and I have no excuse since my wife is from Mexico!


Would the trigger in this gun be similar to the one the the Taurus G3 that allows second strike?

[BigT]

I have some trigger time on the original

I would run in the opposite direction

[Hambo]

Mientras yo criaba en Nueva York había mucha gente de Colombia y Puerto Rico. Me encantaba el idioma y estudié algunos años en escuela secundaria. Después de servir en el militar me encontré en Tejas donde hay mucha gente Mexicana. Me lo enseñaba en el usar. Practicando platicando... ja ja.


En mi experiencia, practicando la conversación es mejor que las clases en la universidad. Y ahora, la pistola...

I'd buy this just because it says Schmeisser on the slide.

[TheNewbie]

I have some trigger time on the original

I would run in the opposite direction

That bad eh ?

Anything you can compare it too?

[JonInWA]

Ok, so the grip shape looks interesting. Ok, so there are a couple of trigger action alternatives. Ok, it says "Schmeisser" on the rollmark. Once you get past all that, it pretty much sounds like snowflake territory.

Unless you're in the "I need a bright shiney new toy" camp (which most of us here have generally grown away from), what't the point, especially with vetted SFA's with exceptional manufacturer support and, dare I say it, actually available consumables (such as magazines...) -like Glock, HK, Beretta, etc.

Moving right along...

Best, Jon

[octagon]

Here is a bit of an update on the newest version of the pistol and availability in the US.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/02/17/montenegrin-tara-tm-9-pistol-now-available-in-the-usa/

I found the trigger description more detailed and interesting here..

One of the most interesting design features of the Tara TM-9 pistol is the patented trigger mechanism called DASR (Double Action Short Release). It is sort of a hybrid of double-action-only (DAO) and double-action/single-action (DA/SA) triggers. The gun always fires the first round in double-action mode but the trigger has two reset points. When the gun is fired and the trigger is let forward all the way, it will reset to double-action again. However, if the trigger is released by about .25″, kind of half-way, it will click into an intermediate reset point and can be pulled back again with a lighter and shorter single-action pull.

Resetting to DAO every time the trigger is completely released means that when the gun is not being fired, the striker is completely decocked. This, in conjunction with the striker blocking mechanism, ensure ultimate safety virtually eliminating the chances of an accidental discharge due to a cocked or semi-cocked striker slipping off of the sear. And of course, another feature of the DAO trigger mechanism is the ability to strike the primer again in case of a misfire without the need to rack the slide. DAO trigger of Tara TM-9 pistol also allows starting the disassembly of the gun without the need for pulling the trigger first.

It also fits in Safariland Glock 17 holsters so that's a good start.

[OfficeCat]

One of the most interesting design features of the Tara TM-9 pistol is the patented trigger mechanism called DASR (Double Action Short Release). It is sort of a hybrid of double-action-only (DAO) and double-action/single-action (DA/SA) triggers. The gun always fires the first round in double-action mode but the trigger has two reset points. When the gun is fired and the trigger is let forward all the way, it will reset to double-action again. However, if the trigger is released by about .25″, kind of half-way, it will click into an intermediate reset point and can be pulled back again with a lighter and shorter single-action pull.

So it's like a striker-fired DAK, but with a lighter pull at the intermediate reset point rather than a heavier one? Interesting.

[MattyD380]

Hmm. The trigger system actually sounds... intriguing.

The thing that sucked about DAK was that the shorter reset point was actually heavier... and thus, for my purposes, not really useful. It just made more sense to let the thing all the way out.

But if they were to “recalibrate” that first reset (in DAK) to an actual SA weight... I’d be interested. Sounds like this might kinda do that.

In essence, it’d be like DA/SA where you don’t have to decock. I need to read more about this.

Also...

Wasn’t Wily Schmeisser the guy who designed the MP-40?

[MattyD380]

Whoa...

https://palmettostatearmory.com/tara-defense-tm-9-9mm-pistol-black-tt-001.html

$399

Who's buyin?

[Joe in PNG]

Wasn’t Wily Schmeisser the guy who designed the MP-40?

He wasn't- it was Vollmer.

Here's Gun Jesus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdQhO8FtY7c) on the matter.

[TGS]

Also...

Wasn’t Wily Schmeisser the guy who designed the MP-40?

Willy's son, Hugo, developed the MP18 and Mkb 42. He wasn't involved in the MP38/MP40.

[MattyD380]

Watching the MP-38/40 video. Sturmgewehrs are next.

Gun Jesus saved me.

[Joe in PNG]

Watching the MP-38/40 video. Sturmgewehrs are next.

Gun Jesus saved me.

If it's your first time visiting the Church of Gun Jesus, you are in for a serious long term treat.

[MattyD380]

If it's your first time visiting the Church of Gun Jesus, you are in for a serious long term treat.

Oh no. Definitely not my first time. But sometimes... I just need to get reacquainted with my faith.

[octagon]

Here is a nice detailed look at the Tara TM 9 newest version with upgrades to the original. It also shows the inner workings fairly nicely. The details are in the first 7-8 mins then it turns into a music video montage of shooting. He also measures trigger pull weight with demo of trigger pull and reset distances.

https://www.full30.com/v/hot-ruin-x5GDf

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Here is a nice detailed look at the Tara TM 9 newest version with upgrades to the original. It also shows the inner workings fairly nicely. The details are in the first 7-8 mins then it turns into a music video montage of shooting. He also measures trigger pull weight with demo of trigger pull and reset distances.

https://www.full30.com/v/hot-ruin-x5GDf

Really well done video. Would be nicer if they did away with the ambi mag release and the huge beavertail, and nicer still if the sight dovetails were compatible with something more popular.

In a full size or compact service pistol format this doesn't do anything for me a TDA doesn't do better, except I guess be a little bit cheaper.

I would be very interested in a product using this trigger system in a pocket pistol or G48/365XL size format.

[MattyD380]

The idea of this trigger system makes a lot of sense to me. It cleverly simplifies the DA/SA process with (ostensibly) no functional drawbacks. It’s just... decocked. Unless you’ve shot it.

I mean, I haven’t shot one—maybe the trigger doesn’t deliver on the whole DA/SA “experience.” But I just think it’s a smart idea. Maybe what DAK should have been.

Also.. whaddya think that seam is he pointed out on the slide? Think the slides are cast? MIM? Or is that just an artifact of the finish being put on?

[TGS]

These are now being blown out for $185 at Centerfire systems. Spare mags are $21.

https://centerfiresystems.com/product/tara-tm-9-9mm-4.5-barrel-blackblack#product_detail

These have a now-public story behind them, which is interesting.....and Ian did a video about them. Possibly some of the worst pistols made in recent years. Would you take the gamble for $185?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPTfPsd9irs

[CleverNickname]

Would you take the gamble for $185?
No. Not only because the Tara seems to be trash, but also because there's not going to be any spare parts or magazines or holsters or anything available. Penny wise vs pound foolish.

If I wanted a 9mm poly-frame semi-auto where low price was the main concern, I'd get a PSA Dagger Glock-clone frame and then shop around for a slide and barrel. Under $300 seems doable. It'd almost certainly be a better gun and if there were problems, Glock parts to fix it are widely available.

[MattyD380]

I watched Ian’s video. I was under the impression the pistol wasn’t horrible.

Guess it is. Oh well.

I still think the “always-decocked-until-you-pull-the-trigger” DA/SA concept is simplistically brilliant. But, strange—Ian calls it a DAO in the video. He never mentions it resetting to SA.

I wonder if that was an erroneous claim about the gun? I need to (re)watch the other videos on these things.

I also wonder if the TM-X (or whatever the 2nd gen is called) doesn’t blow as much as the OG. But I’m in no rush to find out.

[Joe in PNG]

It's a double action only gun, and does not reset to SA ever- there's no disconnector. It appears that the slide won't even go into battery until the trigger is released while shooting.
The trigger bar has to go forward and catch the striker at the front each time, then drag it back to the release point.
It's a bit like the old H&K VP 90 in that regard.

[awp_101]

Would you take the gamble for $185?

As a piece of life saving equipment? Not willingly. As a gun nerd curiosity? Absolutely.

I had one in the cart and after everything was said and done I’d be into it for about $225. I’m just not quite interested enough to raid the fun fund for one.

[TGS]

As a piece of life saving equipment? Not willingly. As a gun nerd curiosity? Absolutely.

I had one in the cart and after everything was said and done I’d be into it for about $225. I’m just not quite interested enough to raid the fun fund for one.

FFL transfer fees is what kills these "deals" for me. Otherwise I'd probably have a few Armscor M200 and M206 revolvers laying around....

[awp_101]

FFL transfer fees is what kills these "deals" for me. Otherwise I'd probably have a few Armscor M200 and M206 revolvers laying around....

I’m lucky, my guy only charges $15 for a transfer in so sales tax is usually the killer for me. 8.25% doesn’t seem like much until you see $20 shipping plus $16 in tax on a $185 “toy”.

This whole “acting like a grown up” thing is vastly overrated.

[Kyle Reese]

FFL transfer fees is what kills these "deals" for me. Otherwise I'd probably have a few Armscor M200 and M206 revolvers laying around....

When will you pick up your TM9? :)

[Chopdoc]

Hi folks, I am new here. This will be long, sorry about that. I am very interested in this conversation. I have a few things to say.

I have been following these pistols since they were first shown off by the manufacturer in Europe at the industry shows. I see lots of fragments of truth, half truths, legends and myths about them all over the web. Even the current clearance seller and Ian McCollum only have part of the story, and not entirely correct. These pistols have been around a long while. They are issued to the Montenegro military and tens of thousands have been exported to the Middle East where they have seen use in real world combat. I have the export records from NATO.

Schmeisser had nothing to do with this design, they merely contracted a rebranded version with the Schmeisser brand name on it. As far as I know there is only one Schmeisser SLP-9 in the US...maybe two. Personally, I want one.

I have had a Tara TM-9 since 2019 and a TM9X since 2021. I have several additional magazines for both. Both run flawlessly and are really great shooters. I still consider them range toys. But if I had to point one of mine at someone and pull the trigger I am very confident it would be a very bad day on the receiving end. As a side note, they are both particularly accurate and precise in my hands, I am very pleased with that.

The TM-9 I have was not imported by the same importer as these current clearance pistols, I have a different import stamp and talked to the importer himself before I bought the pistol. So, there is one place where you are getting only part of the story on the web. There has been more than one importer. The manufacturer has known for years before their "announcement" that these pistols were imported to the US. I promise. It is true that they were not intended for the US market, but they were originally serialized for multiple markets, including the US anyway. There are more partial truths and missing information, I can assure you. What's worse is the unqualified speculation by many. Oh, as for my TM-9X, there are no import stamps on it! How did that happen?

I don't believe the "rubber bullet" story. It's much more convoluted and interesting than that, including some shady characters that I will not name. I suspect Ian knows about it and will not say either, but maybe he does not. It could actually be dangerous to speak about it publicly.

These pistols have a patented trigger that mimics DA/SA, which is appealing to those of us that trained extensively on DA/SA service pistols for many years. The pistol is never cocked unless the trigger is pulled, not even partially cocked, so no de-cocker is needed. Just like in the old days of the 92F and 59 and 5900 series S&W, the DA first pull is the safety. Th de-cocker is just a de-cocker, not a safety. Unlike a hammer fired DA/SA pistol, you cannot cock the pistol without pulling the trigger, no option for that. (Yes I know there were pistols without a hammer spur.) The first shot is always DA. As long as you don't fully release the trigger, all follow up shots are a short and crisp trigger pull, and this is very easy to accomplish. You can learn it in a magazine or two. This pistol is definitely NOT DA only. Just because it does not fit your conventional knowledge does not mean it isn't what it claims to be. That's why it was granted a patent after all.

Neither the designer nor manufacturer of this pistol holds the patent for the trigger, it must have been licensed out as far as I can tell but I have not seen the documentation of that.

The same patented trigger mechanism is available for Glocks, it's the TF Tactical Lightning Tap Double Action Trigger For Glock. Optics Planet has them on sale right now. Maybe the price reflects the cost of the patent license? I am not sure.

These pistols were manufactured by an aerospace company with military contracts that has availability of top notch materials and manufacturing methods, but they were designed by an Austrian. You would recognize the names and models of pistols the designer had his hand in. No, it was not Wilhelm Bubits. No, I will not name the designer.

The TM-9X is definitely NOT the "tactical version" nor merely an aesthetic upgrade as Ian said. It is internally a complete redesign with external upgrades like forward serrations and better grip texture. Take them apart next to each other. The barrels, slides, and most of the internals do not interchange. Even the magazines are different. The TM-9X is definitely superior, but the TM-9 is actually a very good pistol.

What about the malfunctions you saw in videos? It's very simple. The recoil spring is weak. If you find a problem with return to battery, put a stock gen 3 Glock 17 recoil rod/spring in it. Fixed. Done. If you like you can put a stock gen 3 striker spring in it to lighten the trigger pull a little.

I am not saying to buy one and shoot real 9MM with it. There is that whole "rubber bullet" and "blank" announcement that could make anybody who says to do that liable if there is a catastrophic failure resulting in an injury. But have you seen any catastrophic failure in these "blank guns"? None? Not one? Really?

So, Glock recoil rods, recoil springs, and striker springs fit. That makes it very tunable since there are variety of aftermarket options. Any sight that fits SIG 226, 228 etc will fit the slide cuts in the Tara. I have the design parameters and specs from the engineers at Tara Aerospace. I got them years ago.

If you wanted to get back at someone that had a product to sell, could you not devalue that product? Interesting thought, eh? No, probably not who you think. But this pistol is being sold very cheap now. It's no SCCY or YEET Cannon.

I am confident the feds are paying attention. Do you think the ATF might be interested in an imported pistol, marked and imported as a firearm, but intended for blanks or rubber bullets? Do you think that violates any regulations or laws? Do you think they might consider that a "safety concern"? Don't be surprised if they come looking for the stock.

When this "warning" hit the internet, in spite of all my experience in the matter, I took both my pistols to a gun smith with manufacturing experience and metallurgy experience. He found nothing indicating they were not intended to shoot real ammunition nor any indications that the engineering, design, materials, or tolerances indicated they should not be fully capable of firing real 9MM ammunition. But that is just my two pistols. Maybe they are the only two? I don't know.

Maybe Ian is right. Maybe the 9X is just an aesthetic upgrade, a "tactical" version. But he hasn't shot a 9X, at least not in a posted video, nor indicated he examined one. Maybe my example 9X is some anomaly, some prototype. Maybe I am crazy. Jesus can't be wrong. Surely he knows a light recoil spring when he experiences one. I am just some guy posting on a forum. Maybe I don't know the truth. Maybe I have been misled. Maybe others have been misled. I can guarantee that no one person knows all there is to know about all this. I can also guarantee that I am skeptical about what anybody has to say, and am very skeptical if they have not held, and extensively fired, both versions of this pistol. So feel free to be skeptical about what I have to say.

“My mom always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.” Caveat emptor. Be safe.

[TGS]

The "I know all the super secret details and one true story but won't actually write them out, because I'm just too cool" post.

Got it.

[fly out]

I thought this was cute:

109470

[PNWTO]

The "I know all the super secret details and one true story but won't actually write them out, because I'm just too cool" post.

Got it.

I should’ve just read this [your] post first.

[Archer1440]

I once knew a Tara, and she was very close to perfect. This isn’t her.

[Chopdoc]

The "I know all the super secret details and one true story but won't actually write them out, because I'm just too cool" post.

Got it.

Yeah, not so much. You might have missed the end of my post. I know what I know. Some of it second hand though, and some of it sketchy. Be skeptical. I have been following this since like 2013 or so, but here is a lot I don't know about the situation.

The only thing I will not do is mention two names. One because it could invite trouble, and the other because I know he simply does not want talked about. I think that's reasonable.

Jethro Dionisio is the dealer for Tara in PI by the way. I figure he might know a thing or two about pistols. I talked to him and someone else in his shop a few years back about Tara. You can find YouTube videos of him shooting a TM-9.

He does have threaded barrels for them as well. I would love to get my hands on one of those.

There are more versions of this pistol out there but only the two imported to the US as far as I can find.

If someone finds another version in the US I would love to know.