Laugo Arms Alien Pistol... [Archive]

bac1023

01-20-2021, 06:33 PM

I just picked up this baby yesterday. Can't wait to shoot it. Its like nothing I ever owned before.

Anybody have one here?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/vUuA83.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnvUuA83j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/ooTcg8.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnooTcg8j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/gAZabz.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmgAZabzj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/mbkSWm.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnmbkSWmj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/UldEtW.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poUldEtWj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/doPX8a.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmdoPX8aj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/3n1rbE.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pn3n1rbEj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/xHr5iJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmxHr5iJj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/O3R5hq.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmO3R5hqj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/ncdIYc.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnncdIYcj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/IVfxpu.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmIVfxpuj)

Rex Kramer

01-20-2021, 07:07 PM

I’m a little short on funds for that. Good looking pistol tho.

JonInWA

01-20-2021, 07:16 PM

TicTacticalTimmy

01-20-2021, 07:51 PM

Very jealous. Would like to hear how it compares in recoil to a 2011 or other heavy competition oriented gun. Also very interested in the precision you can eek out with a red dot from sandbags or a rest.

Paul D

01-20-2021, 08:04 PM

I think it will a be a sample of one on this forum. I hope you will be able to wring it out and say if the flat shooting, minimally recoiling claims are true. Congrats on obtaining a truly fascinating gun.

JCN

01-20-2021, 08:08 PM

Bac 1023, I've gotta admit, I'm a bit jealous of your apparently unlimited discretionary spending budget-where do you find all this esoteric stuff, anyhow??

I don't think I'm stepping out too much on a limb by stating that I doubt that any other of us here have one of them....

Your findings/acquisitions are interesting, though-thanks for your reporting and images.

Best, Jon

I think it will a be a sample of one on this forum. I hope you will be able to wring it out and say if the flat shooting, minimally recoiling claims are true. Congrats on obtaining a truly fascinating gun.

Hehe. Mine from a couple weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/uhXKRGBRHRo

Congrats that they got yours to you, BAC!

JonInWA

01-20-2021, 08:34 PM

Hehe. Mine from a couple weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/uhXKRGBRHRo

Congrats that they got yours to you, BAC!

You're probably Bac1023's son or brother, admit it....

Best, Jon

YVK

01-20-2021, 08:46 PM

Hehe. Mine from a couple weeks ago.

Next match. Limited minor. Some ̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶ here does that with a Glock from appendix, and we still don't think he's crazy. Not too bad, at least Mr. White

JCN

01-20-2021, 09:04 PM

Next match. Limited minor. Some ̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶ here does that with a Glock from appendix, and we still don't think he's crazy. Not too bad, at least Mr. White

I ordered a G20 appendix holster which should be coming sometime soon. The Alien should fit in that holster with minimal heat forming. I like red dots so it'd be Open minor... still waiting on extended base pads for magazines, though.

If magazine capacity laws come into play and we are all limited to 10-15 rounds, then I would absolutely run it.

Bucky

01-20-2021, 09:32 PM

bac1023

01-20-2021, 09:38 PM

I ordered a G20 appendix holster which should be coming sometime soon. The Alien should fit in that holster with minimal heat forming. I like red dots so it'd be Open minor... still waiting on extended base pads for magazines, though.

If magazine capacity laws come into play and we are all limited to 10-15 rounds, then I would absolutely run it.

Looking forward to seeing your report on running it in Limited or Open. Those top 2011’s are incredible pistols though. It’s always more the shooter than it is the gun of course.

All things being equal, I think the 2011’s have the clear edge though. While the bore axis is much higher, they get back on point so well anyway.

Eurastus

01-20-2021, 11:08 PM

With the downward-swinging hammer, extremely low bore axis, non-reciprocating sights, and barrel fixed to the frame, that Alien reminds me of the FWB AW93 and IZH-35M .22LR Olympic-style target pistols. The Alien may well turn out to be equally accurate...and for a 9mm, high-capacity sporting pistol, that would be mighty welcome indeed!

Clusterfrack

01-20-2021, 11:14 PM

Next match. Limited minor. Some ̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶ here does that with a Glock from appendix, and we still don't think he's crazy. Not too bad, at least Mr White

Ask him about the house music SIRT dance party before Area 1 2015, and let me know what you think. :D

But more seriously, I’m really looking forward to seeing the Alien in action. I hope it’s as awesome as I want it to be.

YVK

01-20-2021, 11:48 PM

Looking forward to seeing your report on running it in Limited or Open. Those top 2011’s are incredible pistols though. It’s always more the shooter than it is the gun of course.

All things being equal, I think the 2011’s have the clear edge though. While the bore axis is much higher, they get back on point so well anyway.

The direct comparison will be hard simply because of major - minor scoring differences and the degree of aggression that major affords. You two get big props for buying these and contributing to the first 500 units selling out. I think that amount is sufficient to get this gun into carry optics. 1500 more are needed for Production. If Lancer brings more of those, hopefully in a regular package without extras, I might get one just to help pushing it forward.

After IPSC ruling that optic cannot be mounted on the rail, and I expect USPSA follow that too, I started to hope for a compact carry version of it.

foxj66

01-21-2021, 10:04 AM

The direct comparison will be hard simply because of major - minor scoring differences and the degree of aggression that major affords. You two get big props for buying these and contributing to the first 500 units selling out. I think that amount is sufficient to get this gun into carry optics. 1500 more are needed for Production. If Lancer brings more of those, hopefully in a regular package without extras, I might get one just to help pushing it forward.

After IPSC ruling that optic cannot be mounted on the rail, and I expect USPSA follow that too, I started to hope for a compact carry version of it.

I think you have too much hope for USPSA leadership. my guess is they will allow it as is.

JCN

01-21-2021, 10:05 AM

People are already flipping them on Gunbroker for $8500-11,000...

YVK

01-21-2021, 12:06 PM

I think you have too much hope for USPSA leadership. my guess is they will allow it as is.

If they did, I would consider getting one and running it against my Shadows. I think innovation should be rewarded. The CO rules do say, though, that optic cannot be attached to frame in any way so I don't think Troy can OK it even if he wanted to.
And then there's a whole another question if it is a SAO gun...

Amp

01-22-2021, 03:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtXx_3f5e4

snow white

01-22-2021, 04:15 PM

People are already flipping them on Gunbroker for $8500-11,000...

Its a cool pistol but not 11k cool. To each his own I suppose.

JSGlock34

01-23-2021, 11:22 AM

Very cool gun. Does it heat up like a P7?

zeleny

01-23-2021, 09:47 PM

Very cool gun. Does it heat up like a P7?Looks like it’s worse. Just over 90°C or 194 F inside the trigger guard after a 50 round mag dump.

https://youtu.be/z-xrGJEP2w8

TicTacticalTimmy

01-23-2021, 10:09 PM

Looks like it’s worse. Just over 90°C or 194 F inside the trigger guard after a 50 round mag dump.

To be fair, it got down to 63C (around 145F) within 30 seconds. That's still really hot, but i doubt you would accidentally burn yourself. Would definitely like to hear more on how much of an issue this in a real world high volume practice session on a hot day.

YVK

01-24-2021, 01:27 PM

JCN

01-24-2021, 02:17 PM

If this thing heats up like a P7, it would be a no-go for me. I couldn't go for more than a box of rapid fire without having to put gloves on.
JCN: shoot 10 bill drills back to back and let us know, eh?

Sure if you pay for the ammo! :D

Honestly, if it wound up being a heating issue I’d do like I do for suppressors (or any of my thin barrel rifles) and just have some water as a heat sink.

For matches with 30 rounds of shooting and then 30 min of waiting... I don’t see this being a real issue.

Eyesquared

01-24-2021, 02:23 PM

YVK

01-24-2021, 04:47 PM

There is a European shooter on PSTG who has been shooting one of these in IPSC for a while now and reportedly it's not a big deal. He has a cheap battery powered fan he uses when he wants to have a high round count training session.

Thnx. I don't keep the subscription over winter months, it is usually very stagnant there. Gonna be keeping an eye on this still. I am sure not an issue for the matches but practice is where things get hot. This summer I was getting my Shadows hot enough to feel it a bit.

Eyesquared

01-24-2021, 05:07 PM

Thnx. I don't keep the subscription over winter months, it is usually very stagnant there. Gonna be keeping an eye on this still. I am sure not an issue for the matches but practice is where things get hot. This summer I was getting my Shadows hot enough to feel it a bit.

I'm sure it depends on the powder somewhat too. Shooting a lot of Doubles with ammo loaded with Titegroup can get my P320 slide too hot to touch sometimes.

YVK

01-24-2021, 05:25 PM

I'm sure it depends on the powder somewhat too. Shooting a lot of Doubles with ammo loaded with Titegroup can get my P320 slide too hot to touch sometimes.

I am not versed in powders at all; my experience has been that this was all about pace and rate of fire. I am probably more attuned to this subject than most because P7M8 was my first handgun. Based on my memories of it, I would probably need four to support the type of practice sessions I did this last summer with one Shadow.

Doc_Glock

01-24-2021, 05:56 PM

That’s an amazing looking piece. Congrats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXtXx_3f5e4

Thanks to the OP and to you for posting that video. What an interesting and innovative firearm, and the Vickers video really does it justice as far as explaining it.

I hope you really get along with it.

octagon

01-24-2021, 07:09 PM

The heat thing seems like it would be able to be reduced with various thermal coatings or a thermal barrier between the chamber area and the frame. These work pretty significantly in the automotive world. I am a little surprised if it is as significant as the P7 as it is the barrel closest to the trigger area rather than the gas block chamber but then itmay be about the same. The Walther CCP which uses the same gas block/barrel layout as the P7 except a polymer frame doesn't seem to have many complaints about temps getting too hot. I wonder how much is transfer from metal to metal vs metal to polymer?

To the OP thanks for sharing your experience with an awesome pistol. I'm always excited to see companies and designers try new things in the gun world.

bac1023

01-27-2021, 04:57 PM

Thanks everyone

Yes I’m really looking forward to getting it to the range. I own several P7 Series pistols and the heat never bothered me.

HCM

04-04-2021, 03:14 PM

Got to shoot about 50 rounds through one of the 1/500 special edition guns yesterday. Gun had the Romeo 3Max type optic which came in the kit. 100 rounds fired total, 50 Remington brown box 115 FMJ and 50 Speer Lawman 115 FMJ +P. No mag dumps but I did run a few 10 yard Bill drills.

The good - awesome trigger pull and the flattest shooting gun I’ve ever shot with a dot.

The bad - the gun had two failures to feed with the Lawman +P and the screw holding the mag well in place came loose under recoil. While not as noticeable or unpleasant as with a P7, the gun did heat up noticeably above the trigger guard after just 100 rounds at a moderate pace. Nothing that would be an issue on a USPSA stage but could be in a class or extended practice session.

Caballoflaco

04-04-2021, 04:39 PM

19852+

04-04-2021, 05:51 PM

With current ammo supply and prices they could market that as a feature not a bug.

Very good, funny yet true.
I used to shoot with some guys who loved the P7. Matches were no problem but classes? Their solution was two or more P7's on hand...

P30

04-08-2021, 08:11 AM

The bad - the gun had two failures to feed with the Lawman +P
Could you add the info which "Lawman +P" exactly? Of course 9 mm, but which bullet weight and bullet kind?

(I'm considering to buy one. But besides the money, it's a quite big legal process where I live. I understand it's a competition pistol. But it's also important to me that a pistol is reliable.)

PS:
This is what one of the best German IPSC shooters answered when asked about the pistol's ammo sensitivity according to Larry Vickers' video:

forum.waffen-online.de/topic/463429-laugo-arms-alien (https://forum.waffen-online.de/topic/463429-laugo-arms-alien/?do=findComment&comment=3107406):

Dazu habe ich nicht wirklich Erfahrungen. Ich nutze bisher ausschließlich Roundnose Geschosse. Damit läuft die Waffe störungsfrei.

Die beste Präzision und das beste Rückstoßverhalten habe ich subjektiv mit S&B 115gr.

My humble translation:

I don't really have experience with that. So far, I have only used round nose bullets. The weapon has no malfunction with them.

The best precision and the best recoil behavior I have subjectively with S&B 115gr.

HCM

04-08-2021, 09:12 AM

Could you add the info which "Lawman +P" exactly? Of course 9 mm, but which bullet weight and bullet kind?

(I'm considering to buy one. But besides the money, it's a quite big legal process where I live. I understand it's a competition pistol. But it's also important to me that a pistol is reliable.)

PS:
This is what one of the best German IPSC shooters answered when asked about the pistol's ammo sensitivity according to Larry Vickers' video:

forum.waffen-online.de/topic/463429-laugo-arms-alien (https://forum.waffen-online.de/topic/463429-laugo-arms-alien/?do=findComment&comment=3107406):

My humble translation:

It was specified in the first paragraph of my post:

“100 rounds fired total, 50 Remington brown box 115 FMJ and 50 Speer Lawman 115 FMJ +P. ”

The lawman load was 115 grain full metal jacket (round nose) +P

The Remington brown box was 115 grain standard velocity FMJ (round nose).

stomridertx

04-08-2021, 10:24 AM

I may get hate for this. My biggest wish for the Alien pistol is that this very expensive proof of concept spawns a polymer framed pistol with the same concepts that is in the price realm of the other striker fired duty guns. It will take a design change this extreme to get me away from Glock. It doesn't matter how much they tweak the standard striker fired gun mold, nothing competes with the system I have built around Glocks. The Walther PDP has come the closest, but it is still not enough to make me reinvest in everything around it. It's not just holsters and magazines, it's also things like 3d printed inert barrels, the dryfire mag, etc.

Super77

04-08-2021, 03:24 PM

I got to shoot one of these (owned by a friend) over the weekend. It’s an impressive pistol to be sure. The machining, fit/finish and tolerances seem to be of a very high standard. The interchangeable top straps install and interchange without any play. We were able to switch between his RDS and iron sights without noticeable zero shift. The pistol was very accurate with WWB, 124gr +P, and my 147gr coated USPSA reloads. Ergonomically it was very interesting and remindedme of like a Walther .22 target pistol. The grip angle feels more Glock than 1911. The grip itself has nice grippy texture with an angle for the palm of the support hand to get purchase. Kind of reminded me of a Shadow 2 but with more angle. The contour supports a high grip and feels about as wide as a 92FS or Shadow 2.

The trigger is light and a short travel/reset that I’d estimate at about 2mm/4.5 lbs. It resets at the same point that it breaks which I personally prefer, and has a minimal reset pressure. I was able to slap it very quickly for close targets and use a “ride the link” style press for 10m targets pretty effectively. For more precise slow fire shots I noticed a bit of roll to the trigger that was very smooth without notchiness or drag. It reminded me of my P320 X-five in that way.

Recoil impulse was interesting. It’s straight back, sharp, light, and very fast. The slide cycles so fast that it’s hard to see it move watching someone else shoot. It’s noticeable lighter than my Glocks and P320. Overall it’s very controllable and easy to track the sights. I’m generally not sensitive to bore as but shooting my X-five Legion back to back with the Laugo really highlighted the high bore axis of the SIG. additionally, my Legion has the tungsten guide rod, legion frame, and tungsten grip weight It’s as heavy as I can make it. Even with all that weight the Laugo recoil was more controllable on fast splits even though it’s a lighter pistol.

The Lago ran well with the owner and myself blasting away. We had one failure to go into battery early on but the gun was bone dry. After adding lube it ran like a top for about 300 rounds. I’m not a big proponent of break in periods but it’s worth noting the one stoppage was within the first 100 rounds on a brand new gun without lube. Ejection was very consistent. Overall I would expect good reliability from this gun. I didn’t notice heat being a problem

Overall I was really impressed by the Alien. It’s a compelling design. If they can produce enough, bring costs down, and maintain quality and support Laugo will really have something.

YVK

04-08-2021, 07:33 PM

I may get hate for this. My biggest wish for the Alien pistol is that this very expensive proof of concept spawns a polymer framed pistol with the same concepts that is in the price realm of the other striker fired duty guns.

You won't. I had said that when it just appeared on the horizon, didn't get any hate. It is nothing but proof of concept now, between competition rules that negate its most attractive feature and its price. In the US nobody has a reason to use it in optics divisions, it may or may not get on a Production list but that division is dying off, and it is priced at a non-competitive level for any 9 mm shooting discipline. I was hoping that its inventors patent its features and sell patents / right to major gun makers who could implement them on a service pistol lineup. I don't see a particularly bright future for it otherwise.

JCN

04-08-2021, 08:16 PM

You won't. I had said that when it just appeared on the horizon, didn't get any hate. It is nothing but proof of concept now, between competition rules that negate its most attractive feature and its price. In the US nobody has a reason to use it in optics divisions, it may or may not get on a Production list but that division is dying off, and it is priced at a non-competitive level for any 9 mm shooting discipline. I was hoping that its inventors patent its features and sell patents / right to major gun makers who could implement them on a service pistol lineup. I don't see a particularly bright future for it otherwise.

There are a couple people working on 170mm mag extensions.
If they’re reliable, I would totally goof off in Open with that gun like higher cap CO.

There’s already a DAA Alpha-X insert so holsters are covered already.

If I ever make paper GM in CO and / or Revolver, then I am totally jumping the shark.

YVK

04-08-2021, 10:28 PM

There are a couple people working on 170mm mag extensions.
If they’re reliable, I would totally goof off in Open with that gun like higher cap CO.

You gonna load it with a 9 mm Major? I am all for goofing off, otherwise I wouldn't be shooting Single Stack, but at least I get a major pf benefit out of it. Doubt there is much hope for a wider adoption if they have to compete handicapped.
Methinks it would've had a better chance in the US if it came chambered in .40.

JCN

04-08-2021, 10:44 PM

You gonna load it with a 9 mm Major? I am all for goofing off, otherwise I wouldn't be shooting Single Stack, but at least I get a major pf benefit out of it. Doubt there is much hope for a wider adoption if they have to compete handicapped.
Methinks it would've had a better chance in the US if it came chambered in .40.

I think in Europe, some people are campaigning it successfully with a compensator and 9 major.

For me, I just don’t like reloading so would love 30+ rounds of minor in a fun to shoot gun.

The whole competitive / not competitive thing is overrated, IMO.

Max Michel beat Open with a CO gun at Area 6. The same competition that Production beat PCC...

I’d mentally just look to beat CO with my BBQ gun and have fun with friends.

bac1023

04-15-2021, 06:14 AM

Methinks it would've had a better chance in the US if it came chambered in .40.

Not really sure about that. I think the vast majority of people buying them are not competitive shooters. Outside the circuit, nobody really wants 40S&W in a high end pistol. Im just speaking from the collectors market, which I believe most of the Aliens went to.

YVK

04-15-2021, 06:35 AM

Not really sure about that. I think the vast majority of people buying them are not competitive shooters.

Would that not be because it is not competitive, for one reason or another, in competition circles? Cost and inability to use the rail for optic, outside of goofing off in Open, makes unattractive it to CO and Production people. 40SW option would've made it attractive to a larger than only collectors group of people that don't mind dropping 5k for an ounce of performance advantage.

bac1023

04-15-2021, 06:41 AM

Would that not be because it is not competitive, for one reason or another, in competition circles? Cost and inability to use the rail for optic, outside of goofing off in Open, makes unattractive it to CO and Production people. 40SW option would've made it attractive to a larger than only collectors group of people that don't mind dropping 5k for an ounce of performance advantage.

If you’re talking an option of 40, I certainly agree. Only being chambered in 40 would have majorly hurt its appeal to those willing to put down the money. I also feel most those paying five figures for them on GB won’t be subjecting them to much competition.

When and if the gun is imported again without the extras, it should be it a little more affordable. I’m hearing somewhere around $4000-$4250.

Jim Watson

04-15-2021, 08:14 AM

YVK

04-15-2021, 08:27 AM

That would be a reasonable price to a match shooter if he thought it would be the best available Production gun. (It is IPSC Production but not USPSA.)

Jim, I am not following: how would 4 grand be a reasonable price for a Production gun, whether IPSC or USPSA, when Shadows and Tanfos are 25%-50% of that?
bac1023: I agree, the 40 option and 9 option would have the best appeal to gamers and collectors.

JCN

04-15-2021, 09:00 AM

Jim, I am not following: how would 4 grand be a reasonable price for a Production gun, whether IPSC or USPSA, when Shadows and Tanfos are 25%-50% of that?
bac1023: I agree, the 40 option and 9 option would have the best appeal to gamers and collectors.

Although most serious Shadow owners have 2 or 3 or 4 copies... if there was a clear advantage then I could see someone forgoing 4 Shadows to get one Alien.

I think most Open shooters are shooting 9 major, no? For capacity reasons.

I think 9 major would be just fine as long as there are suitable extensions.

Personally, my Alien is just sitting in the box until 170mm extensions are available.

And even then, there are CO guys beating my ass with polymer guns so I can't really blame my Shadow....

The Alien is super fun to shoot, though. It feels great.

Even though I'd rather race Porsches than Ferraris due to availability, cost and aftermarket support...

Having / driving a Ferrari for fun doesn't sound like it would suck. :D

Jim Watson

04-15-2021, 09:21 AM

Jim, I am not following: how would 4 grand be a reasonable price for a Production gun, whether IPSC or USPSA, when Shadows and Tanfos are 25%-50% of that?

To quote a usually reliable source (Me!) ...if he thought it would be the best available Production gun.

Yes, I know the CZ mutants currently rule Production. Maybe because you can't buy a series production Alien.

NoTacTravis

04-15-2021, 09:29 AM

There's another way to look at the 4 grand price point for a production gun IMO...

Are guys willing to pay limited gun prices to shoot what they perceive to be pretty much a limited gun in production? There's already people pushing to have 2011 frames in production and already production shooters looking to build as close to a limited gun as they can get away with.

Limited seems pretty popular still and the price points of an Atlas don't seem to keep them out of that division. I'm not so sure that there aren't a growing bunch of production shooters willing to play at the limited price point but in the production division.

Average price point of production guns seems to be moving higher in general, I'm not sure that Shadow 2 prices represent the ceiling of what some of the division is willing to pay.

Then there's always the creative rationalization math that says if you're paying 5K a year in consumables to reload and shoot 50K rounds per year the cost of the pistol is a lot less significant than the 20K you're going to spend feeding it over the next 4-5 years.

I'm one of the poors though, I'm just conjecturing. But there seems to be a sizable chunk of USPSA competitors that are relatively price agnostic about their gear. I'm not so sure how high the ceiling is.

YVK

04-15-2021, 11:22 AM

Although most serious Shadow owners have 2 or 3 or 4 copies... if there was a clear advantage then I could see someone forgoing 4 Shadows to get one Alien.

I don't think that peeps who are serious enough to keep several Shadows would be OK to trade that for one unit of anything. Having multiple copies shows an unwillingness to leave a match or interrupt training because your one precious broke something, especially if you're investing time and money to travel for matches. I think most serious competitors won't trade a confidence that backup guns offer for marginal performance gains.

I am not arguing that Alien is not a cool gun, and I am sure it is fun to shoot. My point is that, between price point, game rules, and available calibers, it will remain the nichest of niche guns.

Limited seems pretty popular still and the price points of an Atlas don't seem to keep them out of that division.

I would argue that Limited is experiencing a different trend. The price of its guns is driven by tradition and belief that 5K custom 2011 is the only competitive piece of gear. That has been very successfully challenged in recent years, with polymer guns, Tanfos, and TSOs supportung highest levels of performance.

The most prevalent 2011 brand on the Nats Limited gear survey was STI. I think it is quite obvious why. Personally I think that market share of 6K gaming guns is going to be only shrinking.

NoTacTravis

04-15-2021, 12:05 PM

I don't think that peeps who are serious enough to keep several Shadows would be OK to trade that for one unit of anything. Having multiple copies shows an unwillingness to leave a match or interrupt training because your one precious broke something, especially if you're investing time and money to travel for matches. I think most serious competitors won't trade a confidence that backup guns offer for marginal performance gains.

I am not arguing that Alien is not a cool gun, and I am sure it is fun to shoot. My point is that, between price point, game rules, and available calibers, it will remain the nichest of niche guns.

I would argue that Limited is experiencing a different trend. The price of its guns is driven by tradition and belief that 5K custom 2011 is the only competitive piece of gear. That has been very successfully challenged in recent years, with polymer guns, Tanfos, and TSOs supportung highest levels of performance.

The most prevalent 2011 brand on the Nats Limited gear survey was STI. I think it is quite obvious why. Personally I think that market share of 6K gaming guns is going to be only shrinking.

Well sh!t, when you put it that way I've got to agree with you. Good points. Well put. I concede (not joking).

JCN

04-15-2021, 02:11 PM

I don't think that peeps who are serious enough to keep several Shadows would be OK to trade that for one unit of anything. Having multiple copies shows an unwillingness to leave a match or interrupt training because your one precious broke something, especially if you're investing time and money to travel for matches. I think most serious competitors won't trade a confidence that backup guns offer for marginal performance gains.

I am not arguing that Alien is not a cool gun, and I am sure it is fun to shoot. My point is that, between price point, game rules, and available calibers, it will remain the nichest of niche guns.

Probably supply will be the limiting factor. If the Alien gets the buzz that it’s far superior (even if it’s not), then there will probably be people like the Atlas buyers that will just amortize their investments over longer periods of time.

While nobody would love to stay with just one competition gun, I could see some hero or zero types opt for that.

bac1023

04-15-2021, 04:23 PM

That would be a reasonable price to a match shooter if he thought it would be the best available Production gun. (It is IPSC Production but not USPSA.)

Speaking of which, Bac, I know you are not a competition shooter but you know enough of us you should have informed opinions...
What Gun On The Rug do you think is the most effective for action shooting, IDPA, IPSC, USPSA?

I really like the CZC A01-LD

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/uQKhGb.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pouQKhGbj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/rdY5vk.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmrdY5vkj)

Amp

04-23-2021, 03:25 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m0sHoTP3e0

JCN

05-12-2021, 01:26 PM

Stripped down version no dot for $4k available through Lancer now.

Welder

05-12-2021, 02:35 PM

Stripped down version no dot for $4k available through Lancer now.

The Signature Edition was $1k more and was a numbered limited edition with an extra mag, a magwell, a holster, a second topstrap with red dot....what else? Oh yeah, an engraved signature on the frame and a bigger also-signed hardcase. I'd been thinking that if this new 'Performance Edition' was $3k I'd buy one. I think I'll use the $$ for other things at $4k.

JCN

05-12-2021, 02:44 PM

The Signature Edition was $1k more and was a numbered limited edition with an extra mag, a magwell, a holster, a second topstrap with red dot....what else? Oh yeah, an engraved signature on the frame and a bigger also-signed hardcase. I'd been thinking that if this new 'Performance Edition' was $3k I'd buy one. I think I'll use the $$ for other things at $4k.

But you could have bought the Signature Edition at $5k and sold it for $9k and had a free Performance edition.

:D

I own a Signature Edition but it’s sitting until 170mm mags come out.

YVK

05-12-2021, 07:10 PM

Anyone sells standalone optic top rails?

JCN

05-12-2021, 09:49 PM

Anyone sells standalone optic top rails?

Yes. The retro rail had the slide mounted dot that might be legal for CO.

So the frame dot might not have any utility for someone trying to run CO and they’d be better off getting a non railed and then buying a retro dot setup.

I personally have a bizarre thought of getting GM in CO and then just running my Alien with 170mm round magazines in open minor as a kind of CO without as many magazine changes.

whomever

12-10-2021, 02:42 PM

ForgottenWeapons does a takeapart/mechanical explanation today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGCL3iRm2Y

Bigghoss

12-10-2021, 07:57 PM

ForgottenWeapons does a takeapart/mechanical explanation today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGCL3iRm2Y

Fixed it for you.

Bigghoss

12-11-2021, 08:33 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeOiag-hnG0

Jim Watson

12-12-2021, 11:13 AM

Ian's thoughts on suitable ammunition are interesting.
NRA had a similar observation on the P7. The first P7 American Rifleman got to try out would not function with Bullseye powder reloads but was fine with Unique to the same velocity.
Accurate Powder used to caution that anything less than a top load with fast burning AA2 might not work in "European 9mms."
Ed Harris once wrote that European pistols - he was trying Barsto barrels with different chamber throats in a BHP - were set up for powder charges in the 5 to 7 grain range, not the hot fast powders that max out around 4 grains.

Just how many Laugos are out there? They made 500 of the signature model, now are offering Full Kit ($5000) and Performance ($4000) models.
By way of comparison, in 2019, the last year BATF shows data for, Ed Brown made 1070 pistols, SVI made 417, and Atlas 504. Atlas is widely touted, no doubt they are making them faster now, but they have gained a good reputation for a small operation.

Welder

12-16-2021, 09:29 AM

I ended up getting my hands on one of the Signature Series. After seeing the prices they were going for, I sold it unfired at auction and made the single largest percentage profit on anything I've ever sold or invested in. Pretty sure it was the highest an Alien ever sold for on that site also; it was a low S/N and I had good pictures and description. I bought two Full Kits with the profits and still had thousands left over....and the cycle repeats itself. I can't walk away from that amount of potential profit. One day I hope I can justify actually owning and *keeping* a gun like that whose value skyrockets overnight. It's like a drug in some way. People were paying $7500 for the Full Kits on GB when they could have just as easily paid $5k for the same thing which was still in stock from Lancer. Of course, Lancer's out of stock on the Full Kits now, so auction sites are your only option. And they're insane.

On the one hand, I do understand the level of must-have-itness that these guns engender, as they are true works of art and as close to mechanical perfection as any device I've handled. But on the other hand, I can't make myself keep or even fire one when doing so would cost me thousands in lost $$$. I never even racked the slides or dropped the mags on these last two, they've just stayed locked in the safe. :(

With the profits from these, maybe I'll finally be able to justify buying and keeping a Full Kit for myself if and when more are imported.

hk45

12-16-2021, 07:35 PM

This handgun looks amazing. Too bad the price is insane. Maybe other manufacturers will come out with a similar design at a lower price point.

Jim Watson

12-16-2021, 10:32 PM

Auction fever described by Welder aside, the Laugo is not particularly expensive in its market niche.
Atlas is selling $5000+ guns as fast as they can turn them out, and they are not alone in the field.

jbrimlow

12-17-2021, 09:33 AM

Personally, I'd rather have the Atlas/Infinity/EMG/whatever, since those are actually optimized for the competitions they're designed for, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get parts in five years. Oh, and I can get extended mags right now.

I'd love to see someone who actually knows how to shoot pistols well take the Alien for a spin, but I won't hold my breath.

P30

12-17-2021, 10:04 AM

Personally, I'd rather have the Atlas/Infinity/EMG/whatever, since those are actually optimized for the competitions they're designed for, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get parts in five years. Oh, and I can get extended mags right now.

I'd love to see someone who actually knows how to shoot pistols well take the Alien for a spin, but I won't hold my breath.
A German IPSC Champion shoots an Alien pistol:
Christian Rohoff (https://www.performanceshootingconcepts.de/Trainer/) (IPSC Production Grandmaster), currently #80 @ ipscrating.com (https://www.ipscrating.com/).

Jim Watson

12-17-2021, 10:27 AM

Personally, I'd rather have the Atlas/Infinity/EMG/whatever, since those are actually optimized for the competitions they're designed for, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get parts in five years. Oh, and I can get extended mags right now.

A German IPSC Champion shoots an Alien pistol:

It kind of depends on which side of the Atlantic you are on.
I see posts from European shooters hurting for parts and service on American guns.
And I bet if you manage to break or wear out an Alien here, you will have trouble getting it fixed.

I'd love to see someone who actually knows how to shoot pistols well take the Alien for a spin, but I won't hold my breath.

And he should be a frequent shooter with a lot of matches and practice to build up a round count. Take 50,000 rounds and call back.

I saw mention somewhere of IPSC shooters scabbing on compensators to shoot Open Major.

jbrimlow

12-17-2021, 10:35 AM

It kind of depends on which side of the Atlantic you are on.
I see posts from European shooters hurting for parts and service on American guns.
And I bet if you manage to break or wear out an Alien here, you will have trouble getting it fixed.

And he should be a frequent shooter with a lot of matches and practice to build up a round count. Take 50,000 rounds and call back.

I saw mention somewhere of IPSC shooters scabbing on compensators to shoot Open Major.

Fair point, re: side of the ocean. IPSC rules mean the lack of 140mm magazines isn't a problem in Prod optics. Do they actually have the 170mm mags for open over there?
Being in America, it doesn't really help me though.

And sure. Ideal: Good shooter, ~50k with the gun. Maybe a "Year in review". Something where you've shot it for a while, tell us how it holds up, what someone can do with it once they get to know it.

I would settle for a regular review after some practice sessions by a good shooter. While I am dreaming, I would also like to see people compare it to other guns in its price range.

jbrimlow

12-17-2021, 10:40 AM

P30

12-17-2021, 02:04 PM

A German IPSC Champion shoots an Alien pistol:
Christian Rohoff (https://www.performanceshootingconcepts.de/Trainer/) (IPSC Production Grandmaster), currently #80 @ ipscrating.com (https://www.ipscrating.com/).

Nice of them to sponsor someone. Are there videos of him shooting it somewhere?
Sorry, I confused the name: His name is Stefan Rohoff. His YT channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsZs_U6vg3iNLAvDoC6SLOg) is currently empty. On his website, he writes that he is in the US for training now (https://performanceshootingconcepts.de/Trainer/) (as far as I remember, he is a soldier or police officer). I could not find a video showing him "in action". If I find one, I'll post it here.

There is a promotional video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnRGA5y0r0c) with him for the Alien. But mainly a German gunvlogger is shooting the Alien, not Stefan. Stefan trains him a bit in the video. The video is in German, probably not very useful for you. But I like it. The gunvlogger is US citizen (as far as I remember, his father was with the US military in Germany).

PS:
I've found a bit "Stefan in action" in the promotional video. It starts at 14:42 (https://youtu.be/AnRGA5y0r0c?t=882).

JCN

12-17-2021, 11:09 PM

I would settle for a regular review after some practice sessions by a good shooter. While I am dreaming, I would also like to see people compare it to other guns in its price range.

81484

Heheh. Mine is #48 of the Signature.

I was going to compare it to the P32 before I realized you said “in its price range.”

hufnagel

12-18-2021, 08:05 AM

especially after Gun Jesus's review, I really want one. problem is the disposable income needed to buy one would pay for a LOT of upcoming repairs around the house. *sigh*

Welder

12-18-2021, 06:18 PM

especially after Gun Jesus's review, I really want one. problem is the disposable income needed to buy one would pay for a LOT of upcoming repairs around the house. *sigh*

It's a pretty safe bet that if a person were so inclined, they could buy three Full Kits if and when they come back in stock at Lancer again, get all your $$ back by selling two on GB, and the 3rd would literally be free. I have no idea why people were paying $7500 for them on GB when they were in stock at Lancer for $5k, but they were. Regularly and without fail.

My signature was #10 and it sold for a little over $18k. I'm telling y'all, these guns are a drug. I love them but I can't justify keeping one when people are throwing ridiculous $$ at them like this. I work harder than most for my money, and I don't feel bad making a profit from my brain rather than my back every now and then.

hufnagel

12-18-2021, 07:32 PM

It's a pretty safe bet that if a person were so inclined, they could buy three Full Kits if and when they come back in stock at Lancer again, get all your $$ back by selling two on GB, and the 3rd would literally be free. I have no idea why people were paying $7500 for them on GB when they were in stock at Lancer for $5k, but they were. Regularly and without fail.

My signature was #10 and it sold for a little over $18k. I'm telling y'all, these guns are a drug. I love them but I can't justify keeping one when people are throwing ridiculous $$ at them like this. I work harder than most for my money, and I don't feel bad making a profit from my brain rather than my back every now and then.

yea but with my luck they'll discover some fatal flaw in them right after my 3 are delivered and paid for, much like the Caracal F. there goes all my cashola as the company folds overnight.

Super77

12-19-2021, 01:44 PM

yea but with my luck they'll discover some fatal flaw in them right after my 3 are delivered and paid for, much like the Caracal F. there goes all my cashola as the company folds overnight.

What was up with the Caracal?

I got to run a few rounds through a buddy’s Alien. Really nice gun that lives up to the hype. We hooked up a Mantis and the muzzle flip is measurably flatter than a Glock or P320 Legion with the same ammo. The owner took the Alien apart and we cleaned it at the range. I didn’t see anything to suggest there’s a “fatal flaw” in terms of abnormal metal wear etc. it actually looks/feels like a pretty robust design. The Laugo was 100% reliable for the approx 200rds we shot but the owner did mention that it seems to feed round nose better than hollow point.

Velo Dog

12-19-2021, 03:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_o47KAlgp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_o47KAlgp4

Not perfect, but not bad.

Screwball

12-19-2021, 06:09 PM

I’d want one… but not $4,000 bad.

Maybe they can make it more affordable to the poors like me that would be interested in something in the under $1,500 range. Traditional frame, with some type of common grips.

JCN

12-19-2021, 06:13 PM

What was up with the Caracal?

I got to run a few rounds through a buddy’s Alien. Really nice gun that lives up to the hype. We hooked up a Mantis and the muzzle flip is measurably flatter than a Glock or P320 Legion with the same ammo. The owner took the Alien apart and we cleaned it at the range. I didn’t see anything to suggest there’s a “fatal flaw” in terms of abnormal metal wear etc. it actually looks/feels like a pretty robust design. The Laugo was 100% reliable for the approx 200rds we shot but the owner did mention that it seems to feed round nose better than hollow point.

On the Alien groups, there’s a ramp and barrel mod that can help with flat nose and hollow point feeding.

Vickers did it first and now a number of people have done it too.

TicTacticalTimmy

12-19-2021, 10:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_o47KAlgp4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_o47KAlgp4

Not perfect, but not bad.

Pretty damn good in my opinion.

I think racking it after submerging it into mud is a little over the top.

It beat the brakes off the Glock 19 in the same mud test, fwiw.

hufnagel

12-20-2021, 04:21 PM

What was up with the Caracal?

https://www11.davidsonsinc.com/WebRes/ManufRecalls/caracal_recall.pdf

The initial recall eventually expanded to ALL F and C units.

JCN

12-20-2021, 07:29 PM

81622

Size comparison to a G19 Roland type.

81623

More like a G17/G34 size.

81624

JCN

12-20-2021, 08:28 PM

The other thing to note is the grip angle is very Glock-ish.

So people with that training can adapt pretty quickly.

JCN

12-24-2021, 11:16 AM

Since a lot of Instagram Timmies are using G34s with SROs maybe that’s what I’ll do with this gun.

LOK brass (that I had lying around in case there were 170mm magazines I was going to run it in Open).

Note that it looks like they used E6000 to help secure the factory backstrap…

81809

LOK grips installed:

81810

I don’t like single clip AIWB holsters for heavy guns.

81811

So I took the torch and the wood of a hammer to squish an existing 2 clip holster to fit the Alien.

81812

This is what I’m working on today.

Digging through the bucket of holster parts to put together a sidecar holster.

81813

Jim Watson

12-24-2021, 11:46 AM

The other thing to note is the grip angle is very Glock-ish.

So people with that training can adapt pretty quickly.

I had not caught on to that. Thanks, you have saved me $5000, I don't like the raked grip. Same thing kept me from getting too interested in a Pardini.

JCN

12-24-2021, 12:08 PM

I had not caught on to that. Thanks, you have saved me $5000, I don't like the raked grip. Same thing kept me from getting too interested in a Pardini.

You’re welcome!

One of the other things that I didn’t like about this gun is how flat the beaver tail is underneath.

It rubbed on my strong thumb knuckle in my traditional grip.

But after installing the “palm swell” wider grips (which is what I use on my CZs) it relocates my strong hand enough that I think it’s more viable now.

81815

Clusterfrack

12-24-2021, 12:14 PM

The other thing to note is the grip angle is very Glock-ish.

So people with that training can adapt pretty quickly.

...and CZ-ish, unsurprisingly. I like that a lot. I really hope the design makes it to the mass market.

JCN

12-24-2021, 12:46 PM

...and CZ-ish, unsurprisingly. I like that a lot. I really hope the design makes it to the mass market.

It’s not so CZ ish. Close enough to work with but dot is top of window instead of center when I present an Alien with a CZ grip.

81818

The issue I had / have with car / gun reviewers is that it’s very dependent on the skill and intelligence of the reviewer.

So that’s why I buy and test everything myself.

Like with cars, is the reviewer experienced enough to separate out something inherent in the vehicle (like weight distribution) versus something easily modifiable (like alignment) with regard to what they notice in the performance.

I got in from the garage from Dremel trimming the holster to clear trigger guard and rake magazine pouch for optimal Timmy performance.

81817

JCN

12-24-2021, 01:15 PM

81819

81820

JCN

12-24-2021, 01:39 PM

81821

81822

Okay. I’m happy with this. I adjusted one of the clips and drilled another hole to get ride height where I wanted it for Timmy stuff.

I think this was a Glock 21 holster initially…

Kydex is pretty easy to work with.

JCN

12-26-2021, 11:45 AM

Did a 0.10 split on target.

81899

P30

12-26-2021, 12:14 PM

Did a 0.10 split on target.
I don't want to be a party pooper. But with what precision?

Vandal320

12-26-2021, 02:51 PM

Gun Jesus does a sand test

https://youtu.be/wKk0tluqio4

JCN

12-26-2021, 03:28 PM

I don't want to be a party pooper. But with what precision?

2 alpha at 7 yards.

I was just getting a sense of trigger reset and cadence.

I ran the Gabe White standards and Clusterfrack I definitely noticed the difference in grip to index and it either slowed me down having to adjust a whiff instead of seamlessly drawing to dot on target.

If I spend more time with the gun, that’ll get better. But this was the first range session I spent actually doing something with the gun so I don’t expect a lot.

Was still able to do 7/8 turbo pin runs with the one light run being a Charlie indexed a little high.

https://youtu.be/GBxfT72Z03I

P30 for me max splits are a function of the reset and trigger press. How well does the trigger “bounce” with a relatively firm grip.

For example, the only other gun I have been able to split 0.09-0.10 is a TSO shooting 9mm.

My Open CZ 0.12s as low as I have seen because the ammo is hotter.

My Shadow 2 for Carry Optics 0.13-0.14 is not uncommon.

The Alien trigger is as crisp as a TSO and no slop at all.

JCN

12-26-2021, 04:18 PM

I would settle for a regular review after some practice sessions by a good shooter. While I am dreaming, I would also like to see people compare it to other guns in its price range.

Okay, I feel qualified to talk about this now.

Up until today, I had only shot one magazine when it first arrived and then two magazines when I put the dot on to sight it in and goof a little.

Today I got to get some real time and lead downrange to get a good sense of what I think.

Context:
Most of my USPSA competition time and practice has been with a modified CZ Shadow 2.

I have good familiarity with the TSO and Czechmate as well.
Before the Shadow 2, I had purchased a pretty pricey CZC worked 75B as my "high end" gun.

Before competing with the Shadow 2, I carried a Wilson Combat EDC X9 and had a second one milled for an RMR.

I also have trigger time with a Koenig SR1911 which is pretty nice as well.

1. The LOK brass grips are awesome. They balance the gun REALLY well. Highly recommend.
2. It shoots flat. Feels flatter than a Shadow 2...
3. Functionally for the shooting part, there's really not much difference. The Alien feels "crisper" but the Shadow 2 doesn't feel like it's any steps behind really.
4. The best way I can describe the trigger is that it's like having a great 1911 or TSO trigger but with a dongle rather than a manual safety. In that way, it's an advantage over a Shadow 2 or TSO... but only for the first shot.

So do I like it? Yes. Would I pick it over a 9mm TSO from a draw? Probably, but only by virtue of the first shot. Is it worth the money? Maybe?

Would I cry if it disappeared out of my safe? No.

Welder

12-27-2021, 09:16 AM

JCN

12-27-2021, 11:43 AM

My 2 Aliens just sold, and with some of the profits I plan to buy a TSO, some spare mags, a holster, etc. I've long wanted to jump on the CZ bandwagon, but haven't ever wanted to invest the money since I currently have everything needed for the B92. Looks like I should be able to get into a TSO for a little under $1600. That's more the type of money I'm prepared to spend for a hobby pistol. Too bad it won't be IDPA legal since USPSA is a little scarce around here...but I'll shoot it for fun anyway. I might have enough profits left over to almost buy an IDPA-legal CZ as well, but not sure if holsters, mag pouches, and mags will cross over.

Instead of a TSO you might want to consider one of the single action only Shadows. It’ll be very similar awesome to a TSO with the benefit of being pretty close to IDPA legal I think.

For example I have a lightened Shadow 2 slide that allows it to work in CO.

Mags are different between the Shadow and the larger framed TSO.

You’ll have more aftermarket support with a shadow.

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-shadow-2-sa/

Clusterfrack

12-27-2021, 12:02 PM

I strongly prefer my 3 S2’s over any other CZs I’ve tried. I added a CGW short reach kit, and some springs. That’s it.

JCN

12-27-2021, 12:26 PM

I strongly prefer my 3 S2’s over any other CZs I’ve tried. I added a CGW short reach kit, and some springs. That’s it.

What else have you tried? Shadow 2s are awesome.

What do you think the issue with the others were?

I almost always have to Goldilocks my CZ grips to get my hand into proper position and I’ve found that by going thinner on a TSO and wider on an S2 then makes the overall reach to trigger similar.

The TSO is probably my favorite.

Clusterfrack

12-27-2021, 06:03 PM

What else have you tried? Shadow 2s are awesome.

What do you think the issue with the others were?

I almost always have to Goldilocks my CZ grips to get my hand into proper position and I’ve found that by going thinner on a TSO and wider on an S2 then makes the overall reach to trigger similar.

The TSO is probably my favorite.

The Shadow2 is so well balanced, and the ergos fit me like a glove. I think I’ve shot or at least handled virtually all the other models. The TSO felt kind of big and goofy to me, but admittedly I don’t have any significant time with one.

The older 75 models are great, but I strongly prefer the shape at the beaver tail on the S2 (and the P-07).

Bucky

12-28-2021, 07:02 AM

The Shadow2 is so well balanced, and the ergos fit me like a glove. I think I’ve shot or at least handled virtually all the other models. The TSO felt kind of big and goofy to me, but admittedly I don’t have any significant time with one.

The older 75 models are great, but I strongly prefer the shape at the beaver tail on the S2 (and the P-07).

The Shadow 2 is an impressive pistol in feel an ergonomics. I can’t imagine wanting to shoot anything else in production or carry optics. It’s even my no preferred gun for 3 gun (over the STI). That said, I’ll stick with STI for limited and open, because I don’t feel it can take the abuse of high round count major PF like the 2011 can.

P30

12-28-2021, 07:24 AM

Context:
Most of my USPSA competition time and practice has been with a modified CZ Shadow 2.
[...]
Before the Shadow 2, I had purchased a pretty pricey CZC worked 75B as my "high end" gun.
[...]
1. The LOK brass grips are awesome. They balance the gun REALLY well. Highly recommend.
Since you can compare: Is the Alien as it comes from the factory more front-heavy than a Shadow 2?

Context:
I once shot a Sphinx 3000, which before was kind of a dream gun for me. But when I shot it, I did not like its balance - too front-heavy. I like the balance of a plain CZ75B very much - this feels well-balanced to me. I know, probably the split times with a 75B are a few hundreds slower, but split times are not everything for me. BTW: I like the old Sphinx 2000 (https://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B6%2F8%2F6%2F3%2F6863454%5D%2Csizedat a%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D) very much. The best CZ75-clone on the planet for my taste. My best shooting buddy has one. It was made in Switzerland, unfortunately no longer. Very precise weapon.

JCN

12-28-2021, 09:04 AM

Since you can compare: Is the Alien as it comes from the factory more front-heavy than a Shadow 2?

So some context regarding reviewing what’s inherent in a platform versus what’s easily changeable.

Two of the cars we have owned (RS4 and GTR) were good cars but set up kind of “tight” from the factory with tendency to understeer. A combination of front toe in and tire width stagger.

Changing alignment and wheel / tire combination to be more neutral or “playful” is well within my “normal,” but I understand that a lot of people would want an out of the box solution.

For me, that’s as minor of a thing as putting a flashlight on a Glock or grips on an Alien.

My other perspective is:
When I assess balance of a gun, I judge based on the mag length and capacity I plan on shooting it with.

A P365 balances well with a 12-15 round magazine full. But is obviously nose heavy when empty.

A Czechmate is super duper nose heavy with the steel factory comp and regular mags. But balances very well with 29 rounds in a 170mm magazine… the way I normally use it.

I would say that an out of the box Alien is more nose heavy than a Shadow 2 but that’s not a negative to me as I hope to use it with 170mm magazines some day.

In the meantime, the LOK palmswell grips give it delicious balance with the 17 round grips.

jbrimlow

12-28-2021, 09:35 AM

Okay, I feel qualified to talk about this now.

Up until today, I had only shot one magazine when it first arrived and then two magazines when I put the dot on to sight it in and goof a little.

Today I got to get some real time and lead downrange to get a good sense of what I think.

Context:
Most of my USPSA competition time and practice has been with a modified CZ Shadow 2.

I have good familiarity with the TSO and Czechmate as well.
Before the Shadow 2, I had purchased a pretty pricey CZC worked 75B as my "high end" gun.

Before competing with the Shadow 2, I carried a Wilson Combat EDC X9 and had a second one milled for an RMR.

I also have trigger time with a Koenig SR1911 which is pretty nice as well.

1. The LOK brass grips are awesome. They balance the gun REALLY well. Highly recommend.
2. It shoots flat. Feels flatter than a Shadow 2...
3. Functionally for the shooting part, there's really not much difference. The Alien feels "crisper" but the Shadow 2 doesn't feel like it's any steps behind really.
4. The best way I can describe the trigger is that it's like having a great 1911 or TSO trigger but with a dongle rather than a manual safety. In that way, it's an advantage over a Shadow 2 or TSO... but only for the first shot.

So do I like it? Yes. Would I pick it over a 9mm TSO from a draw? Probably, but only by virtue of the first shot. Is it worth the money? Maybe?

Would I cry if it disappeared out of my safe? No.

Thanks for posting this. Just who I was hoping to hear from. And that seems to fit with what I've read elsewhere.

I hope you enjoy the daylights out of yours. I don't think the Alien is for me though.

P30

12-28-2021, 09:47 AM

JCN Thank you very much for the answer!

but I understand that a lot of people would want an out of the box solution.
In my case it's not so much the wish for an out of the box solution (I have a bit motorsport experience, too :)). I don't want to make the gun much more heavy in order to balance it. I like that its lower part, I mean the grip, is made of an aluminium alloy. But I understand: If one wants to optimize the Alien even more for fast split times - like a race car so to speak - then a bit more weight likely helps.

But maybe I'm splitting hairs. I should test fire one. But they are still very rare here in Germany. If I drive a few hundred miles, I can shoot one.

I wish you good luck concerning the availability of 170 mm magazines! Then you have the very best of many worlds! We in Germany are limited by law to 20 rounds in pistols. But that's not so bad.

P30

06-16-2022, 11:34 AM

JCN

06-16-2022, 05:42 PM

It has become a bit quiet here about the Alien. How successfully is it used in dynamic sport shooting competitions in the US? Or any interesting news about it to share?

Why I ask: I've started efforts to get another pistol license as a sport shooter (here in Germany). The Alien and an Infinity 2011 (like this one (https://forum.waffen-online.de/uploads/monthly_2021_12/30096_525.jpg.d8e47ca3fce7195237dc4f5da70ec762.jpg )) are my top acquisition candidates. This will probably be the last pistol for which I can get a license without selling one of the pistols I already own (what I don't want to do). Saved money for some time and would like to buy a great pistol for dynamic sport shooting.

It’s radio silence on competition Aliens in the US because no extended magazines, IMO.

In Europe where there are 15 round divisions it’s been very competitive.

In the US, it’s not competitive in any division because the US divisions are generally 20-30 round capacity for the places where the Alien would fit.

DpdG

06-17-2022, 08:17 AM

It’s radio silence on competition Aliens in the US because no extended magazines, IMO.

In Europe where there are 15 round divisions it’s been very competitive.

In the US, it’s not competitive in any division because the US divisions are generally 20-30 round capacity for the places where the Alien would fit.

Local 2 gun match this weekend (PCC/pistol) had a competitor shooting a Tavor PCC and Alien with optic. He had one mag he was trying out a home modified M&P 140mm extension, but it wasn't entirely reliable. Another local/regional guy uses one pretty successfully in 3-gun/Limited with factory mags.

I can't remember what (if any) starting point Luago used, but I'm guessing it wasn't a clean sheet design. Hopefully someone can figure out an easily adaptable extension.

JCN

06-17-2022, 08:22 AM

Local 2 gun match this weekend (PCC/pistol) had a competitor shooting a Tavor PCC and Alien with optic. He had one mag he was trying out a home modified M&P 140mm extension, but it wasn't entirely reliable. Another local/regional guy uses one pretty successfully in 3-gun/Limited with factory mags.

I can't remember what (if any) starting point Luago used, but I'm guessing it wasn't a clean sheet design. Hopefully someone can figure out an easily adaptable extension.

How did the Tavor PCC do?!

DpdG

06-17-2022, 08:26 AM

How did the Tavor PCC do?!

He seemed to have no issues with it. Looked like it used either Colt or Uzi pattern mags?

JCN

06-17-2022, 08:50 AM

He seemed to have no issues with it. Looked like it used either Colt or Uzi pattern mags?

I was kind of wondering performance wise how it fared. After spending time with an MCX/MPX, the rear heaviness makes for sluggish mounting and dismounting.

https://youtu.be/AWAcP2IeX_U

DpdG

06-17-2022, 09:20 AM

I was kind of wondering performance wise how it fared. After spending time with an MCX/MPX, the rear heaviness makes for sluggish mounting and dismounting.

It didn't seem to be a hindrance compared to how he does in 3 gun with a MCX, but he's usually mid-pack or slightly better and equipment doesn't appear to be the limiting factor. I'll try to pay closer attention if/when he brings it out again.

Bucky

06-18-2022, 05:08 AM

It has become a bit quiet here about the Alien. How successfully is it used in dynamic sport shooting competitions in the US? Or any interesting news about it to share?

Why I ask: I've started efforts to get another pistol license as a sport shooter (here in Germany). The Alien and an Infinity 2011 (like this one (https://forum.waffen-online.de/uploads/monthly_2021_12/30096_525.jpg.d8e47ca3fce7195237dc4f5da70ec762.jpg )) are my top acquisition candidates. This will probably be the last pistol for which I can get a license without selling one of the pistols I already own (what I don't want to do). Saved money for some time and would like to buy a great pistol for dynamic sport shooting.

Given your circumstances, the Infinity hands down. The Infinity is a fantastic pistol, and a known entity. The Alien is still a bit unknown. Also, if certain facets of the Infinity isn’t to your liking, there is a ton of both factory and aftermarket upgrades available.

DpdG

07-07-2022, 08:51 AM

JCN

Local guy who's been doing development work with/for Laugo within the 3G realm showed up to a match with functioning 140mm extensions. He started with TF M&P45 extensions, slightly modified to fit.

The interesting part is he (allegedly) has a relationship with Laugo and claims they are making him prototype 140mm mags by laser welding mag bodies together with the end goal of having native 140mm tubes, which would be available through normal distribution channels. I tend to believe him, as although he's an interesting personality, he is deeply involved on the technical side- he claims to be the one who did the prototype work for the LOK brass grips for the Alien, plus I know he was doing EDM work on the gas port to make the Alien run his preferred handload.

JCN

07-07-2022, 09:59 AM

Jim Watson

07-07-2022, 10:00 AM

Given your circumstances, the Infinity hands down. The Infinity is a fantastic pistol, and a known entity. The Alien is still a bit unknown. Also, if certain facets of the Infinity isn’t to your liking, there is a ton of both factory and aftermarket upgrades available.

Are upgrades for a Texas gun readily available in Germany?

P30

07-07-2022, 10:17 AM

Are upgrades for a Texas gun readily available in Germany?
Quite close to where I live in Germany, there's a great SVI importer (https://svi-flass.de/) (I suppose, he is the biggest SVI importer in Europe). And he's regularly at the shooting club/range (http://www.magnum-dsz.de/) where I train. Infinity pistols are very well regarded among the shooters in our club including some of the best IPSC shooters in Germany. Insofar I'm lucky. :D Some of my buddies already have one (and I can rent one from the range for little money).

Aftemarket upgrades are available, but I don't know how many compared to Texas. :confused:

But it takes about 1.5 years until the Infinity pistol according to your specs/wishes arrives here from the US. And they are extremely expensive (price includes customs duties & 19% German VAT, the importer wants to make some profit and Dollar/Euro ratio is high at the time). Even more expensive than the Alien.

DpdG

07-07-2022, 12:23 PM

Thanks for that update! If they did 140 tubes and then extension to make 170 that would be amazing!

I have the Casa Puentos compensator and would goof off with it in Open using Everglades 9 major if there were appropriate magazines!

Aliens are much too rich for my blood, but I'm academically curious if it would self compensate for 9 Major loads given the gas pressure is supplying the delaying action. What I have learned from that guy is that the gas porting is not easily altered- apparently the port is in an area that is basically inaccessible other than through the bore and the barrel is press fit into the frame (trunion?).

john c

07-07-2022, 02:48 PM

P30;

What’s the price difference between the Alien and Infinity in Germany? The recent collapse of the Euro makes the Infinity a tough choice. A year ago the pistol would have been 20% cheaper.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

P30

07-07-2022, 03:23 PM

What’s the price difference between the Alien and Infinity in Germany?

Alien:
- pistol: 3950 € or 4390 € // cf. rothe-waffen.de (https://www.rothe-waffen.de/shop/pistolen/details/laugo_arms_alien_performance_9mm_luger.html), waffen-centrale.de (https://www.waffen-centrale.de/epages/61692274.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61692274/Products/F02293)
- set (with red dot, holster etc.): about 5600 €

Infinity: // cf. svi-flass.de (https://svi-flass.de/)
- price depends on the customer's wishes
- "starts at 4800 €" (don't know if this is still up-to-date)
- can reach 5 digits

BTW: Picture in new colors:

https://www.3gsports.de/images/product_images/popup_images/ALIEN-PF_00.jpg

(Source: 3gsports.de (https://www.3gsports.de/laugo-arms-alien-9x19-performance.html))

Bucky

07-07-2022, 07:28 PM

Are upgrades for a Texas gun readily available in Germany?

Sorry, i am not sure. A 2011 probably shares 75% compatibility with a 1911, though not sure if that would matter in Germany.

JCN

07-07-2022, 07:35 PM

Aliens are much too rich for my blood, but I'm academically curious if it would self compensate for 9 Major loads given the gas pressure is supplying the delaying action. What I have learned from that guy is that the gas porting is not easily altered- apparently the port is in an area that is basically inaccessible other than through the bore and the barrel is press fit into the frame (trunion?).

I’ve never shot 9 major out of it but you’re tempting me in the name of SCIENCE!

I might do a back to back ammo minor and major with impressions and slow motion video.

john c

07-07-2022, 08:27 PM

Alien:
- pistol: 3950 € or 4390 € // cf. rothe-waffen.de (https://www.rothe-waffen.de/shop/pistolen/details/laugo_arms_alien_performance_9mm_luger.html), waffen-centrale.de (https://www.waffen-centrale.de/epages/61692274.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61692274/Products/F02293)
- set (with red dot, holster etc.): about 5600 €

Infinity: // cf. svi-flass.de (https://svi-flass.de/)
- price depends on the customer's wishes
- "starts at 4800 €" (don't know if this is still up-to-date)
- can reach 5 digits

BTW: Picture in new colors:

https://www.3gsports.de/images/product_images/popup_images/ALIEN-PF_00.jpg

(Source: 3gsports.de (https://www.3gsports.de/laugo-arms-alien-9x19-performance.html))

It sounds like you decided on the Infinity, but for 1000 euros less I’d get an Alien.

I don’t have an Infinity, but I do have an STI Eagle, and $5000 is a lot for the Cadillac version of the same gun.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jim Watson

07-07-2022, 11:12 PM

I have a STI Eagle, too, and have shot an older SVI, very good shooters. They have been refining the guns since, but the only operational change I see is the iron butt in the present trend to heavy pistols. Variations on that theme are USPSA standards.

I have not even seen an Alien in person and while it is technologically interesting, I would not buy a $5000 pig in a poke.

bac1023

07-15-2022, 09:43 AM

OP here

Its been a while since I posted in this thread. I have since sold my Signature model since they were bringing so much money.

I'm not an optics guy, so the Performance model is more my style. I've got a standard model with the green grip and an all black model...

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/XE5I6c.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poXE5I6cj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/lDuXBH.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnlDuXBHj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/Myfdhd.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmMyfdhdj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/QhDYfR.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poQhDYfRj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/PtmgOP.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnPtmgOPj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/KSxkXb.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmKSxkXbj)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/YRtwtc.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poYRtwtcj)

I think the black model looks the best. I love the way they shoot and if Laugo ever offers an all sliver model, I'd grab one. That would be hard chrome on the steel and just a natural brushed aluminum. :cool:

Unfortuinately, prices have gone up about $1000 across the model line with the latest batch.

Clusterfrack

07-15-2022, 04:17 PM

I love this gun, or at least want to. I have yet to handle or shoot one.

bac1023

07-16-2022, 06:47 AM

I love this gun, or at least want to. I have yet to handle or shoot one.

Definitely a great experience

Clobbersaurus

07-18-2022, 07:32 PM

I love this gun, or at least want to. I have yet to handle or shoot one.

After seeing them run in several recent matches, no thanks. One locked up solid. The owner has to keep it meticulously clean or it gives him issues. If you reload, and are not great at QC, man I would not bother. Factory ammo may be a different story. I have not shot one though, so perhaps the shooting experience outweighs the fussiness (not convinced).

bac1023

07-20-2022, 04:39 AM

After seeing them run in several recent matches, no thanks. One locked up solid. The owner has to keep it meticulously clean or it gives him issues. If you reload, and are not great at QC, man I would not bother. Factory ammo may be a different story. I have not shot one though, so perhaps the shooting experience outweighs the fussiness (not convinced).

Never had a single malfunction with either of mine and they definitely aren’t overly clean. The above pictures were took when they were new.

They run awesome for me.

P30

07-20-2022, 08:59 AM

After seeing them run in several recent matches, no thanks. One locked up solid. The owner has to keep it meticulously clean or it gives him issues.

This fits to what I've read recently in another forum (Germany's biggest weapons forum):

forum.waffen-online.de/topic/463429-laugo-arms-alien/page/6 (https://forum.waffen-online.de/topic/463429-laugo-arms-alien/page/6):

Hi, my Alien has had malfunctions for the first time during the last training. Three times the same error, the empty case is jammed exactly 180º turned in the middle of the ejection window from the slide. Ammunition is S&B 124gr in the 50 pack.

Question, does this have anything to do with the cleaning cycle? So far I've cleaned the Alien every 200-300 rounds and never had a malfunction, this time it has about 400-500 down because I had not cleaned it after the last match.

I've only had one malfunction with the Alien in 1.5 years - but it was pretty severe, and of course it happened during a competition.

My guess is that a detached brass chip of a cartridge case had jammed laterally between the grip and the slide. Suddenly, the slide could no longer be moved back and forth. I had to take the rail off in the competition and take the slide out upwards. All of a sudden it continued to run normally. After that I could finish the station.

I clean it completely after each training, including the "piston" and the "cylinder", and put a fair amount of oil on it. The "piston" I put 10min in BoreTech Carbon Remover. This removes the black stuff very well. I never shoot more than about 200 rounds without cleaning.

As ammunition I use almost exclusively S&B 124 gn NonTox, very rarely S&B bulk pack.

So if the Alien is cleaned every 200 rounds, theirs run fine. But if not, these two users sometimes get problems. :(
There are not so many more Alien owner's in the German forum, I know only 4 there and one wrote, he used his Alien only rarely so far. On the other hand, number 4 is a German IPSC champion. Don't know how often he cleans his Alien. Will ask.
How often does an Infinity 2011 need cleaning and lubrication?

Alien cleaning video which is linked on the same webpage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2RtNd_9i3o

Clusterfrack

07-20-2022, 10:17 AM

...if the Alien is cleaned every 200 rounds, theirs run fine. But if not, these two users sometimes get problems.

...How often does an Infinity 2011 need cleaning and lubrication?

Hard pass. This is one of the reasons I don't own any 1911 or 2011s anymore. Honestly, I'm kind of relieved because I don't need to be buying more guns.

Bucky

07-20-2022, 01:01 PM

How often does an Infinity 2011 need cleaning and lubrication?

I run my SV open gun ("Infinity") and STI limited gun well over 3K without cleaning and without issues. I do add a dab of lube before outings, but all without any field stripping, so it's a non-issue.

bac1023

07-20-2022, 01:05 PM

200 rounds?

I’ve got at least 12-1500 on one of mine. Haven’t cleaned it yet

Bucky

07-20-2022, 01:07 PM

Hard pass. This is one of the reasons I don't own any 1911 or 2011s anymore. Honestly, I'm kind of relieved because I don't need to be buying more guns.

Don't you compete with a Shadow 2? I don't see a well built 2011 being any harder to maintain than the Shadow 2. In fact, I feel the Shadow 2 needs to be cleaned a little more frequent, as the slide to frame doesn't feel as smooth (though admittedly, it could be a false perception).

Then again, maybe I'm bless with a couple of great 2011s.

Clusterfrack

07-20-2022, 01:46 PM

Don't you compete with a Shadow 2? I don't see a well built 2011 being any harder to maintain than the Shadow 2. In fact, I feel the Shadow 2 needs to be cleaned a little more frequent, as the slide to frame doesn't feel as smooth (though admittedly, it could be a false perception).

Then again, maybe I'm bless with a couple of great 2011s.

That is not my experience. I have over 100k through S2s, and clean maybe every 5k? No tuned parts, no finicky extractors and mags. Lube isn’t that important on the S2 but helps reduce wear.

JCN

07-20-2022, 02:26 PM

Also my experience. I’ve not had to do very much at all for my S2s.

P30

07-20-2022, 02:55 PM

I’ve not had to do very much at all for my S2s.
And for your Alien? Is it reliable (at least with round-nose bullets)? How often did you clean it?

JCN

07-20-2022, 03:40 PM

And for your Alien? Is it reliable (at least with round-nose bullets)? How often did you clean it?

Who knows? I haven’t shot it much because what’s the point until there are 29 round magazines?

It’s a Glock grip angle so no point in investing trigger time until I can use it in competition.

Bucky

07-20-2022, 07:54 PM

That is not my experience. I have over 100k through S2s, and clean maybe every 5k? No tuned parts, no finicky extractors and mags. Lube isn’t that important on the S2 but helps reduce wear.

I guess I got lucky. My mags aren’t tuned, and they are the older ones were every mag is slightly different. Once I fitted the followers and base plates, they stay with that mag body. Also, I run Aftec extractors so finicky extractors is not a thing for me.

ETA: I have over 150K Through wide body 1911s. Last season I shot my SV open all season without cleaning. It was a light season, but easily over 6K.

JCN

01-12-2023, 07:12 PM

New grip angle version with more vertical grip….

99954

Clusterfrack

01-12-2023, 07:30 PM

New grip angle version with more vertical grip….

No! Do not like.

Welder

01-12-2023, 08:17 PM

I don't see it in this thread, but I got a notification that Laugo Arms USA is coming online on the 15th and Lancer will cease being the US Alien distributor at that time.

rojocorsa

01-12-2023, 08:37 PM

Nice gun, easy to shoot.

We didn't get along because I shoot lefthanded however...

bac1023

01-13-2023, 08:45 PM

I don't see it in this thread, but I got a notification that Laugo Arms USA is coming online on the 15th and Lancer will cease being the US Alien distributor at that time.

Yes, very true

JCN

01-15-2023, 08:30 PM

100128

P30

03-06-2023, 08:19 PM

Brand-new from IWA 2023:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLgVuLqIjDU

Video is in German, you can activate machine-translated English subtitles (but the translation quite sucks, I've just checked it).

PS:
English video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6OQ8RwlItw

Don't know, if we already had it.

JCN

06-10-2023, 07:48 AM

https://cortecharmory.com/products/laugo-arms-alien-magazine-extension

I ordered some to test out…

They’re cheapo 3D printed so won’t stand up to temperature extremes or hard use drops.

But at least something to get started on the game!

JCN

07-31-2023, 05:42 PM

More neutral grip angle should work out well.

They were nice and offered preorder dibs to people who own the signature edition…

Might use it in LO…

Clusterfrack

07-31-2023, 06:06 PM

More neutral grip angle should work out well.

They were nice and offered preorder dibs to people who own the signature edition…

Might use it in LO…

"Decreased Grip Angle
The new grip angle of the Creator caters to shooters who prefer a traditional 1911 style point-of-aim." (https://laugoarmsusa.com/alien-creator-usa-500-limited-edition/)

Curious how that grip angle compares with a Shadow2. I very much do not prefer a 1911 grip angle. The S2 is very popular in competition, so this looks like a step in the wrong direction.

JCN

07-31-2023, 10:49 PM

"Decreased Grip Angle
The new grip angle of the Creator caters to shooters who prefer a traditional 1911 style point-of-aim." (https://laugoarmsusa.com/alien-creator-usa-500-limited-edition/)

Curious how that grip angle compares with a Shadow2. I very much do not prefer a 1911 grip angle. The S2 is very popular in competition, so this looks like a step in the wrong direction.

The original has a Glock angle.

This one I think can do 1911-CZ…

107887

Clusterfrack

08-01-2023, 10:57 AM

The original has a Glock angle.

This one I think can do 1911-CZ…

107887

I like it. Looking forward to your evaluation. Thanks for being the guinea pig.

JCN

08-01-2023, 08:43 PM

I like it. Looking forward to your evaluation. Thanks for being the guinea pig.

I haven't pulled the two of mine into competition yet for a couple reasons:

1. I normally use Syntech and that's a no-go with the gas system of the Alien.
2. Replacement parts are scarce so I bought two guns initially so that I'd have backup.
3. Grip angle would need retraining from me if I used it.

So #1 I can deal with.
#2 Can be solved with three copies of the gun and Laugo now has opened their US branch.
#3 Solved with the Creator edition, I think.

I think initially the Alien was re-selling on Gunbroker for 2-4x the purchase price when stock was low.

The Creator edition will be worth that as well, I'd think if I don't like it.

They also gave Signature owners $500 off the price so that's decent.

It'd be a decent alternative to a 2011 in LO.

bac1023

08-03-2023, 07:42 PM

Yeah I have a Creator on the way to add to my other two.

Serge81

08-23-2023, 08:42 PM

Hey fellow Alien owners, how do you manage that mag well screw that constantly goes out after couple dozens of shots fired? I got upgraded springs for mags and now reloading and chambering 1st round isnt an issue anymore but that mag well screw is a real bugger, tried Loctite that usually worked to keep things in place but little to no luck in this case. Really appreciate any input or ideas.

JCN

08-24-2023, 01:19 PM

JCN

09-05-2023, 12:40 PM

My creator edition is shipping soon….

bac1023

09-06-2023, 07:31 AM

My creator edition is shipping soon….

Yeah mine also

Did you get a date?

bac1023

09-06-2023, 12:33 PM

Actually got word mine is shipping now

Jim Watson

09-07-2023, 09:16 AM

Pretty good for a boutique product.

JCN is very analytical and I am sure we will get a report on Regular vs American Laugos.
I hope he likes it and shoots it a lot.
There are high volume shooters who think nothing of paying $5000 or more but the gun must be durable, reliable, and effective. If it won't hang with, say, a Nemesis, it isn't interesting.

bac1023

09-09-2023, 09:02 PM

Jim,
I personally don’t see the Aliens as major competitors to the top 2011 pistols, but rather a unique design with unique shooting characteristics. Atlas 2011’s are tough to beat as pure shooters.

JCN

09-09-2023, 09:48 PM

Actually got word mine is shipping now

Tuesday arrival for mine, estimated.

Pretty good for a boutique product.

JCN is very analytical and I am sure we will get a report on Regular vs American Laugos.
I hope he likes it and shoots it a lot.
There are high volume shooters who think nothing of paying $5000 or more but the gun must be durable, reliable, and effective. If it won't hang with, say, a Nemesis, it isn't interesting.

Thanks! I agree. There's enough European IPSC shooters with them that there's been some experience with them and durability.

I'm not running them in competition until there's enough support equipment to keep them running (and there's not good 140mm competition extensions yet).

So I'll have three of the Aliens just so I'll have spare parts and practice equipment.

Laugo USA just got a stock of replacement parts so I ordered some small parts like extractors and slide stops, recoil springs and gas piston assemblies so I can tune equipment without worrying about going too far.

It'll probably still be a couple years before I'd dedicate time to the platform, but it has some really attractive shooting dynamics.

I normally shoot Syntech that's coated, it isn't really good with gas piston guns though... shavings of polymer clog the gas system.

So I'd have to switch ammo as well.

Jim Watson

09-10-2023, 09:26 AM

I normally shoot Syntech that's coated, it isn't really good with gas piston guns though... shavings of polymer clog the gas system.

I shoot coated reloads, which has discouraged me from having my No 2 IDPA ESP ported.
Once upon a time I shot some cast bullets in a P7. The gas cylinder was not badly leaded but enough to let me know to stick to jacketed.

JCN

09-12-2023, 06:05 PM

109420

Grip angle is perfectly CZ to me. At least with irons. With swap to dot and see what it does.

G19Fan

09-14-2023, 05:03 PM

Tuesday arrival for mine, estimated.

Thanks! I agree. There's enough European IPSC shooters with them that there's been some experience with them and durability.

I'm not running them in competition until there's enough support equipment to keep them running (and there's not good 140mm competition extensions yet).

So I'll have three of the Aliens just so I'll have spare parts and practice equipment.

Laugo USA just got a stock of replacement parts so I ordered some small parts like extractors and slide stops, recoil springs and gas piston assemblies so I can tune equipment without worrying about going too far.

It'll probably still be a couple years before I'd dedicate time to the platform, but it has some really attractive shooting dynamics.

I normally shoot Syntech that's coated, it isn't really good with gas piston guns though... shavings of polymer clog the gas system.

So I'd have to switch ammo as well.

I am only interested in this pistol for it's uniqueness but I laugh and salute you for owning 3 of these

bac1023

09-14-2023, 06:19 PM

I am only interested in this pistol for it's uniqueness but I laugh and salute you for owning 3 of these

They’re pretty cool guns

As soon as I pick up my Creator, I’ll have three myself

bac1023

09-14-2023, 06:23 PM

109420

Grip angle is perfectly CZ to me. At least with irons. With swap to dot and see what it does.

Looks great

I assume you prefer the grip angle over the standard Alien?

JCN

09-14-2023, 07:11 PM

Looks great

I assume you prefer the grip angle over the standard Alien?

I do, but mainly because I compete with CZs.

If I were a mainly Glock shooter, the original Alien grip angle is closer to that.

G19Fan

09-14-2023, 07:41 PM

They’re pretty cool guns

As soon as I pick up my Creator, I’ll have three myself

I salute you too.

This gun doesn't have a purpose for me but I love the idea and oddity lol

JCN

09-15-2023, 05:35 PM

109491

109492

bac1023

09-16-2023, 06:57 AM

109491

109492

Pretty damn cool

Everything they produce is really high quality

bac1023

09-17-2023, 05:25 PM

Here’s mine…

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq70/923/tpE52v.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pntpE52vj)

Jim Watson

09-17-2023, 06:09 PM

I don't know what half that stuff is. I see gun, magazines, interchangeable rib with optic, and I assume a plastic holster.
But what are the pieces under the barrel and down in the lower left corner?

bac1023

09-17-2023, 06:43 PM

I don't know what half that stuff is. I see gun, magazines, interchangeable rib with optic, and I assume a plastic holster.
But what are the pieces under the barrel and down in the lower left corner?

Different magwell, different backstrap and some lube I believe.

Everything they make is high quality

lperagallo

10-21-2023, 07:53 PM

More neutral grip angle should work out well.

They were nice and offered preorder dibs to people who own the signature edition…

Might use it in LO…

Anyone who owns a creator know if it will fit in the IDPA ESP box?

csd000

05-30-2024, 09:28 PM

Most accurate ammo for the Alien ? I find 150 grain Federal syntec are good. What everyone else using.

GJM

12-24-2024, 10:27 AM

Doubling down on stupid, a carry version.

https://laugoarmsusa.com/alien-remus/

Tokarev

12-24-2024, 10:41 AM

https://youtu.be/5OtQYU2MXiE?si=pAFyYz4NtcJAsrFe

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Clusterfrack

12-24-2024, 10:53 AM

Doubling down on stupid, a carry version.

https://laugoarmsusa.com/alien-remus/

I’m glad to see this. I think it’s the most innovative pistol to come out in a long time. Not buying one, but I like the concept.

GJM

12-24-2024, 12:53 PM

I’m glad to see this. I think it’s the most innovative pistol to come out in a long time. Not buying one, but I like the concept.

The concept is very interesting. Laugo was a sponsor at an Area match, and a mandatory (non scoring) stage had you shoot the Alien five rounds without their ammo. I didn't see a single person get through five rounds without a stoppage. Probably counterproductive as a marketing expenditure.

YVK

12-24-2024, 04:05 PM

had you shoot the Alien five rounds without their ammo

I'm confused: with their ammo, or with yours?

A very strong local shooter jumped on a Laugo wagon. I was on the same squad with him early in his Alien experience. He had stoppages on 5 out of 6 match stages. Since then he told me that he sorted things out by going to one ammo brand and bullet weight. As much as I'm interested in all new cool tech, I was quite discouraged seeing that gun struggle so much.

GJM

12-24-2024, 05:27 PM

I'm confused: with their ammo, or with yours?

A very strong local shooter jumped on a Laugo wagon. I was on the same squad with him early in his Alien experience. He had stoppages on 5 out of 6 match stages. Since then he told me that he sorted things out by going to one ammo brand and bullet weight. As much as I'm interested in all new cool tech, I was quite discouraged seeing that gun struggle so much.

You are not confused, it was just my iPhone typing that was confused. They provided the ammo.

DpdG

12-24-2024, 06:32 PM

Sounds like this anecdote is not applicable, but a locally/regionally competitive 3g guy started using an Alien in matches a few years back. I had a fairly in depth conversation about his ammo/gun learning curve, as it did not run when he first started out. Cliff notes was his preferred reloading recipe (147gr at 130pf, powder I do not recall) was not gassy enough to sufficiently delay cycling. He took what I believe was a poorly considered path to resolve it by edm-ing the gas port larger to increase gas delay with his existing load. Personally I would have experimented with powders and left the gun intact.