Small pistols that allow thumbing the hammer

[matto]

I'm considering my options for a carry pistol and I'd like to narrow my search to pistols that meet two specific constraints.

1. Does not have a fully tensioned striker, and

2. Allows thumbing the "hammer" when holstering.

DA/SA guns with external hammers obviously meet both of these, and I have a few, but they tend to be heavier and have short barrels relative to their striker fired peers. Some other examples include:

- Glocks allow the installation of a striker control device.
- I believe that both the CZ P10 and FN pistols have partially tensioned strikers so someone could make a striker control device, but no one does
- My ruger lcp has a mostly internal hammer but I can still stop it from moving if I press just right with my thumb

Guns like the Kahr PM9 are double action (ish?) but I don't see a way to thumb the striker

Any other ideas on what to look at?

[BillSWPA]

I have no personal experience with this pistol, but it may meet your criteria.

https://www.langdontactical.com/springfield-armory-xd-e-langdon-tactical-edition-9mm/

[LittleLebowski]

SCDs are limited to Glocks for a number of reasons. So, you can go with a Beretta PX4 Compact, some sort of small 1911, any of the smaller Glocks, or a revolver.

[olstyn]

I am a broken record on this topic:

The Walther P99c is not for everybody, of course (paddle mag release is off-putting for some), but should be on your list to at least look at. It the size of a G26, striker fired, DA/SA, and holding down the decocker button is similar to thumbing the hammer on a hammer-fired DA/SA in that there is a lug on the upper side of the striker which interfaces with a piece of the decocker button such that when the decocker button is held down, the striker cannot travel far enough forward to strike the primer of a chambered round even if the trigger is pulled through its entire stroke.

(I have personally verified this with mine and a primed but otherwise empty case. Hold decocker button down, pull trigger, and you get a click from the striker being tensioned and then released, but nothing else happens. Release decocker button, pull trigger, primer pops.)

[RJ]

Carried an HK P30SK LEM V1 with a USPc mag AOWB in a Mitch Rosen Upper Limit holster for a year or so.

Only thing I would do differently today would be a mod (TRS spring?) to make the press slightly heavier.

It’s an extremely versatile setup.

66235

[JCN]

From the other thread, I’m going to go with very small pistols (G43 sized).

XR9S (9mm bullpup)
Bodyguard 380
Kimber Micro 9 (and Micro 380), similar to P938/238.

66236

Here are their actions:

https://youtu.be/1t3R7sCFb5Y

As you can see, they are very small pistols.
I used to carry a Micro 9 before the P365 came out.

EDIT: added some size comparison pictures

G42 (380) vs. XR9S (9mm)

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[jd950]

Might be larger than you want, but Walther PPS M2 is a slim and fairly small partially-cocked-striker fired gun that allows you to "thumb" the striker much like an SCD on a glock.

[matto]

The Walther P99c
Awesome, looks interesting.


HK P30SK LEM V1
I had been looking at this one. It's starting to get pretty heavy at 24 oz though.


Kimber Micro 9
Thank you for the video and pictures! The Kimber doesn't really qualify though because it's SAO right? Has to be carried cocked and locked?


Walther PPS M2
Awesome thanks. Walther making both this and the P99c seems a little odd. I'll read more about the differences

[Doc_Glock]

The first generation LCP kinda allows thumbing the little hammer nub. Kinda.

[matto]

Ironically enough I discovered that a gun I already own meets these conditions. :rolleyes:

The Ruger SR9C is not fully cocked, and has a cocking indicator that extends out the back of the gun when pulling the trigger.

It's also a little on the chubby side at 23.5 oz for a 3.4" barrel striker fired gun. A 43x is nearly 5 oz less.

[olstyn]

Awesome thanks. Walther making both this and the P99c seems a little odd. I'll read more about the differences

The PPS is ~1/3 of an inch thinner than the P99c, similar to the difference between a Glock 26 and a Glock 43.

[JCN]

Thank you for the video and pictures! The Kimber doesn't really qualify though because it's SAO right? Has to be carried cocked and locked?

I figured that one was a stretch, but wasn’t sure if you fully disqualified SAO as an option. ;)
For the record I don’t recommend the XR9S as a carry gun, but I bought one when I was testing options.

[matto]

For the record I don’t recommend the XR9S as a carry gun
Some googling suggested it has reliability issues. Seemed like that was enough to cross it off immediately.

[jd950]

Awesome thanks. Walther making both this and the P99c seems a little odd. I'll read more about the differences

PPS is an abbreviation for Police Pistol Slim. It is a single stack that is similar in size to a S&W Shield The P99C has a thicker slide and grip.

The PPS is about 1/4 inch slimmer and about 1/4 inch shorter than an SR9C, I beleive.

[Duelist]

From the other thread, I’m going to go with very small pistols (G43 sized).

XR9S (9mm bullpup)
Bodyguard 380
Kimber Micro 9 (and Micro 380), similar to P938/238.

66236

Here are their actions:

https://youtu.be/1t3R7sCFb5Y

As you can see, they are very small pistols.
I used to carry a Micro 9 before the P365 came out.

EDIT: added some size comparison pictures

G42 (380) vs. XR9S (9mm)

66241
66242
66243

Which sights do you have on that G42?

[JCN]

Which sights do you have on that G42?

Ameriglo Agents

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[matto]

The Keltec PF9 seems to qualify as well.


EDIT: and Bond Arms Bullpup.

[Duelist]

The Keltec PF9 seems to qualify as well.

If only it wasn’t a KT.

[JCN]

The Keltec PF9 seems to qualify as well.


EDIT: and Bond Arms Bullpup.

Just as an FYI, the Bond Arms Bullpup is the XR9S, just rebadged and with very minor tweaks in material.

[HeavyDuty]

I have no personal experience with this pistol, but it may meet your criteria.

https://www.langdontactical.com/springfield-armory-xd-e-langdon-tactical-edition-9mm/

I was asking about these (or the normal SA version) as a small gun to keep around the house for new shooters. I’m waiting until I have a chance to actually see and shoot one.

[JKP]

The Sig p938 would qualify. It's not recomended by Sig, but can be done. The safety is faster on and off than thumbing the hammer and is very positive when on. Mine is carried in a pocket holster with no problems.

[Flat6]

The easiest for me after going back and forth on this topic a while ago is Glock 43 or my 48 with shield arms, 507K and a gadget. Had a p239, same size as a p228. Couple of s&w 3913s but optic limited.

It’s a striker fired world.

[Totem Polar]

...or a revolver.

Good, good... it has begun.

[matto]

I was asking about these (or the normal SA version) as a small gun to keep around the house for new shooters. I’m waiting until I have a chance to actually see and shoot one.

On the XD-E, I can't get past the 25 ounce weight. That's 1.5 oz *heavier* than a Glock 34. And only 3 oz lighter than a P-01.

Maybe I need to get past the weight, but I'm with the idea of a micro pistol that weighs more than many compact pistols.


EDIT: Error above. I read the glock weight without mag. With the mag it's 25.9 which is 0.3 oz heavier than the XD-E with w/ 9-rd mag (25.6 oz), and 1.1 oz heavier than the XD-E with 8-rd mag (24.8 oz).

[TheNewbie]

On the XD-E, I can't get past the 25 ounce weight. That's 1.5 oz *heavier* than a Glock 34. And only 3 oz lighter than a P-01.

Maybe I need to get past the weight, but I'm with the idea of a micro pistol that weighs more than many compact pistols.


Like everything in life, you're going to have to compromise. There isn't really a Glock 43/43x in the TDA or DAO world, that is still produced. The XDE should be considered in my opinion.


Maybe the Kel-Tec PF9, but my copy wouldn't fire hollow points, though it was reliable with FMJ. The worst part was how much it hurt to shoot. It felt like every seven rounds meant one less day in Purgatory. If, (everything ends up being *if* ) it were reliable, durable, and just 30% less painful to shoot, I would think of it as a great option. Mine never had durability issues, but I didn't shoot it enough to even come close to figuring that out.


When I can finally get to a range, I want to try out my new Taurus 856 with a bobbed hammer. Six shots, not terribly bigger than a j frame and the trigger feels good enough. Now I have no idea how well it will shoot, if it will work, and even if those two produce positive results, there is always the "it's a Taurus in the back of your mind".

A P250 .380 might be something you can find if you look hard enough.

A Sig P290rs might be another option, if you can find it. Not sure how reliable these were.



My dream setup?

A G43x version of the P-07. I could even take it in .380 if that was my only option!

SP-101 six rounds bobbed hammer in .38 special

A perfected PF9

Anything perfect

[JCN]

On the XD-E, I can't get past the 25 ounce weight. That's 1.5 oz *heavier* than a Glock 34. And only 3 oz lighter than a P-01.

Maybe I need to get past the weight, but I'm with the idea of a micro pistol that weighs more than many compact pistols.

This was kind of mentioned quietly by someone in the thread, but I’ve also found it to be the case...

Putting a red dot on pistols helps mitigate a fair amount of the grip angle adjustment because the intersecting vision and presentation lines have more freedom depending on where the dot is on the window. Dots might be against your micro carry philosophy, but I’m just so much better with dots that I felt I had to do it.

A couple of other random thoughts that may or may not apply to you:
A company sells extended base plates to use 10 round P365 magazines in an XL grip module (for capacity limited states).

I have one of the first 1000 P365s and have put 10,000+ rounds without a striker issue and with the number of abused rental P365s out there, I think we probably would have heard about ND failures if it happened. I also haven’t heard of a MS failure yet even though the mechanism does feel crazy fragile.

I also carry a low round count copy of my training gun to avoid wear failures (and so I don’t have to clean my guns as often). Dunno if any of those are options or if you’ve just completely ditched the idea of carrying it.

Just some thoughts.

[HeavyDuty]

On the XD-E, I can't get past the 25 ounce weight. That's 1.5 oz *heavier* than a Glock 34. And only 3 oz lighter than a P-01.

Maybe I need to get past the weight, but I'm with the idea of a micro pistol that weighs more than many compact pistols.

That can’t be right. Can it?

[TheNewbie]

That can’t be right. Can it?


According to each manufacture's website, the Glock 34 is slightly heavier.


https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g34


https://www.springfield-armory.com/xd-series-handguns/xd-e-handguns/xd-e-33-single-stack-9mm-handgun/

[revchuck38]

I am a broken record on this topic:

The Walther P99c is not for everybody, of course (paddle mag release is off-putting for some), but should be on your list to at least look at. It the size of a G26, striker fired, DA/SA, and holding down the decocker button is similar to thumbing the hammer on a hammer-fired DA/SA in that there is a lug on the upper side of the striker which interfaces with a piece of the decocker button such that when the decocker button is held down, the striker cannot travel far enough forward to strike the primer of a chambered round even if the trigger is pulled through its entire stroke.

(I have personally verified this with mine and a primed but otherwise empty case. Hold decocker button down, pull trigger, and you get a click from the striker being tensioned and then released, but nothing else happens. Release decocker button, pull trigger, primer pops.)

I have two P99Cs, they're my "small" guns, one for carry and the other for training/practice. I really like them. The bad news is that they've been discontinued, though they're still supported by Walther USA.

[TheNewbie]

I wonder if Langdon could grind down the ambi mag release, and make it one sided only? When I had a XDS Mod 2, I had a mag dump on me. When I got home I had no mag in the gun. Called my buddy and he found it in the door panel area of the car we were in! Yes a proper holster might cover it, but I prefer just a one sided release. It's one of the main reasons I will not get an XD-E. That startled me.



Edit to add- I am speaking about the XD-E.

[matto]

That can’t be right. Can it?

Arg, sorry. I read the "without magazine" weight off glocks website.

But the XD-E is the same weight as a glock 17 with mag (24.8 oz). And the XD-E w/9 round mag is heavier (25.6 oz). Glocks are light!

[RJ]

The PPS is ~1/3 of an inch thinner than the P99c, similar to the difference between a Glock 26 and a Glock 43.

I had and carried a PPS M2 for eight months. In fact I took my first "formal" training, a private session with Gabe in Clackamas OR in 2016 I think it was. Solid gun. 1,206 rounds, zero malfunctions. The "protrusion" out the back was a pretty cool feature.

Only had two problems with it: It was heavy for it's size, as in 6+1. I had both the 7 round and 8 round mags, and carried it behind the hip, but man, for a single stack, it was pretty heavy for the capacity.

Second issue was the non-swappable (and easy to hit) mag release. Being a lefty, I discovered, twice, that the mag release was light enough to actually engage while I was carrying. Meaning, the mag was not seated in all the way. Which would make for a very short gun fight. So that was not good.

I traded it in for the P30SK LEM, IIRC.

[olstyn]

I have two P99Cs, they're my "small" guns, one for carry and the other for training/practice. I really like them. The bad news is that they've been discontinued, though they're still supported by Walther USA.

Yeah, I guess that's true. Still a good option if you can find one, at least IMO. Speaking of which, I really need to call Walther USA and order a couple of spare recoil springs for my full size P99, as well as some P99c magazine followers - I've cannibalized several of them to make my TF 140mm extensions for my full size P99 mags hold one extra round comfortably.

[olstyn]

Second issue was the non-swappable (and easy to hit) mag release. Being a lefty, I discovered, twice, that the mag release was light enough to actually engage while I was carrying. Meaning, the mag was not seated in all the way. Which would make for a very short gun fight. So that was not good.

PPS M1 (paddle release) would be ambi *and* nigh impossible to accidentally hit. I get that they did the button version for the fact that it's a more popular thing/would sell better, but paddle releases have significant advantages.

[BehindBlueI's]

Maybe I need to get past the weight, but I'm with the idea of a micro pistol that weighs more than many compact pistols.


How are you carrying that a few ounces matter in any way?

Maybe because I started out on "heavy" guns like the gov't 1911, I've never even considered weight as a metric yet it seems some obsess over it like road cyclists or UL backpackers. I get it for ankle carry, and I suppose pocket carry, but if you're carrying at the waist what difference does it make?

[RJ]

PPS M1 (paddle release) would be ambi *and* nigh impossible to accidentally hit. I get that they did the button version for the fact that it's a more popular thing/would sell better, but paddle releases have significant advantages.

On that we are agreed.

If I was king, all handguns would have Paddle releases, but I also think Betamax was better than VHS. :cool:

[RJ]

How are you carrying that a few ounces matter in any way?

Maybe because I started out on "heavy" guns like the gov't 1911, I've never even considered weight as a metric yet it seems some obsess over it like road cyclists or UL backpackers. I get it for ankle carry, and I suppose pocket carry, but if you're carrying at the waist what difference does it make?

How tall are you, BBL?

[GearFondler]

How are you carrying that a few ounces matter in any way?

Maybe because I started out on "heavy" guns like the gov't 1911, I've never even considered weight as a metric yet it seems some obsess over it like road cyclists or UL backpackers. I get it for ankle carry, and I suppose pocket carry, but if you're carrying at the waist what difference does it make?I'm right with you... I don't understand the ultra-lightweight crowd. I've seen people who will only carry an FRN scaled Spyderco because they say they can't stand a knife that weighs more than 2oz. Do these people only wear drawstring-waist silk pajamas?

[RJ]

I'm right with you... I don't understand the ultra-lightweight crowd. I've seen people who will only carry an FRN scaled Spyderco because they say they can't stand a knife that weighs more than 2oz. Do these people only wear drawstring-waist silk pajamas?

How tall are you, GF?

[RJ]

How tall are you, BBL?


How tall are you, GF?

So, who cares?

Well, there is a portion of the population that is undertall, or overweight (or both.) I'm 5'6", and at the time I was looking for a lightweight single stack, pushing well over 200#. And trying to carry IWB, behind the hip.

Which, being as how there's no natural "stiction" if you are placing a slick kydex holster between your pants and your underwear. Add a heavy leather 1/4" gun belt due to not knowing any better, and you are looking at a significant cantilever of handgun, holster and belt tugging at you all day. (I've read where some even wear suspenders, due to the weight of their gun and belt).

So, for some of us smaller than average, weight, while not the be all and end all of everything, is a factor that we have to give more...weight to when selecting a handgun :cool: (sorry, I'll see myself out) than those who are closer to or above the 50% centile of the human population. If you are a bigger guy, 6'or better, it may not make any difference to *you*, but I can assure you it makes a difference to *me*.

I lost a bit of middle recently, so lately I've been very successful at carrying AIWB, on a MMT belt. The belt is almost loose, and I don't have a gun tugging at my pants anymore. I'll never go back to behind the hip carry.

[GearFondler]

How tall are you, GF?I'm only 5'7", 160lbs and I easily carry a Roland Special AIWB (43oz), 24rd w/+2 (18oz) and a 642 (19oz) in my right front pocket.
Plus a lot of other stuff in my other pockets.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210117/a38dd8da7d546fbcf2cc8d09fb7beeb2.jpg

[RJ]

I'm only 5'7", 160lbs and I easily carry a Roland Special AIWB (43oz), 24rd w/+2 (18oz) and a 642 (19oz) in my right front pocket.
Plus a lot of other stuff in my other pockets.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210117/a38dd8da7d546fbcf2cc8d09fb7beeb2.jpg

Sounds reasonable. AIWB is the way to go with that frame, for sure. I'm 5'6", currently 185, but was 212 last June.

[JCN]

I'm only 5'7", 160lbs and I easily carry a Roland Special AIWB (43oz), 24rd w/+2 (18oz) and a 642 (19oz) in my right front pocket.
Plus a lot of other stuff in my other pockets.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210117/a38dd8da7d546fbcf2cc8d09fb7beeb2.jpg

Very cool setup and I really like that J-frame holster! Care to share who makes it?

[TheNewbie]

Very cool setup and I really like that J-frame holster! Care to share who makes it?


Beat me to the question.

[GearFondler]

Sounds reasonable. AIWB is the way to go with that frame, for sure. I'm 5'6", currently 185, but was 212 last June.I started AIWB carry at 190lbs with a stock G19 and was very surprised to find I could make it work... Before that it was only 15 years of ankle or pocket carry with a 642 or LCP.
That motivated me to bust my ass to lose another 30lbs to make AIWB not only possible but also comfortable.

[GearFondler]

Very cool setup and I really like that J-frame holster! Care to share who makes it?
Beat me to the question.Thanks guys... I made that myself but it's an exact copy of the AHolster Pocket Backbone. I stole the design because it's only for myself... I would not make one for anyone else.
But definitely try one out from AHolster... It is hands down the best pocket holster I have ever used, from concealment to retention to release it is bloody brilliant. And quite a few others here have one as well and agree with me.

[BehindBlueI's]

How tall are you, BBL?

71"



Which, being as how there's no natural "stiction" if you are placing a slick kydex holster between your pants and your underwear. Add a heavy leather 1/4" gun belt due to not knowing any better, and you are looking at a significant cantilever of handgun, holster and belt tugging at you all day. (I've read where some even wear suspenders, due to the weight of their gun and belt).

Maybe I've just been lucky to choose better holsters and belts, but it's never been an issue for me. I mean, I carried a P220 and two spare mags or a P226 and one spare mag, handcuffs, badge, and radio on a Red Nichols "triple curve" belt for years. With a loaded Foster's coin sap in my front pocket. I just can't fathom 4-5 oz mattering in the slightest. If my belt and holster made it were balancing a few ounces was an issue, I'd swap the belt and holster.

[matto]

How are you carrying that a few ounces matter in any way?

AIWB. If you asked me "would 5 oz matter" I'd be inclined to say no. But I currently have 3 guns that I am experimenting with carrying

1. Sig P365: 17.9 oz (Vedder lighttuck and Keepers cornerstone)
2. Ruger SR9C: 23.4 oz (Vedder lighttuck)
3. CZ P-01: 28.1 oz (Vedder lighttuck and JMCK wing claw 2.0)

For me, the amount that they "disappear" when carrying them aligns pretty much directly with how much they weight. On some days the P-01 doesn't bother me. But others I find it annoying. Is it the end of the world? Nope. But the P365 is damn near invisible. I forget it's there. The SR9C is somewhere right in between.

It's possible that if I get the P-01 more time I'll start to learn to forget it's there as well. Maybe that's the solution? It's by far my favorite of all my guns, many of which cost far more.


like road cyclists

Hahahaha. Guilty as charged.

[RJ]

I started AIWB carry at 190lbs with a stock G19 and was very surprised to find I could make it work... Before that it was only 15 years of ankle or pocket carry with a 642 or LCP.
That motivated me to bust my ass to lose another 30lbs to make AIWB not only possible but also comfortable.

Congrats on the weight loss, that’s fantastic.

Totally agree on AIWB. I tried my Glock 34 the other day using a makeshift AIWB holster and was a bit startled it actually worked, more or less. I could probably be fine with my G19 but I find the most useful dimension of the G48 is its skinniness. The full grip is great, and I can get my hand on it for the draw. I like the 4.2” barrel and sight radius for shooting and the longer slide than the 43X for a softer perceived recoil.

Anyway, I’ve probably drifted the thread long enough.

So with that I’ll clam up and let the discussion get back to small thumbable hammer guns, it’s been pretty interesting.

[BehindBlueI's]

For me, the amount that they "disappear" when carrying them aligns pretty much directly with how much they weight.

How similar are the external dimensions? The only two dimensions that seem to matter to me are thickness and grip length. Weight and barrel length are irrelevant to concealment for me.

[TheNewbie]

71"



Maybe I've just been lucky to choose better holsters and belts, but it's never been an issue for me. I mean, I carried a P220 and two spare mags or a P226 and one spare mag, handcuffs, badge, and radio on a Red Nichols "triple curve" belt for years. With a loaded Foster's coin sap in my front pocket. I just can't fathom 4-5 oz mattering in the slightest. If my belt and holster made it were balancing a few ounces was an issue, I'd swap the belt and holster.


Did you carry AIWB?

[GearFondler]

How similar are the external dimensions? The only two dimensions that seem to matter to me are thickness and grip length. Weight and barrel length are irrelevant to concealment for me.Yes, I agree, but with the addition of a proper holster and belt (probably that is implied in your response but so many people miss that part of the equation).
A well designed holster/belt combo will conceal a 5" 2011 better than a poor holster/belt combo with a G42.

[matto]

How similar are the external dimensions? The only two dimensions that seem to matter to me are thickness and grip length. Weight and barrel length are irrelevant to concealment for me.

Yeah, they all vary in length and width as well, so it's hard to isolate which factor matters most. I can see barrel length not mattering (within reason). But weight bounces around more as you move, walk, etc.

[JCN]

Thanks guys... I made that myself but it's an exact copy of the AHolster Pocket Backbone. I stole the design because it's only for myself... I would not make one for anyone else.
But definitely try one out from AHolster... It is hands down the best pocket holster I have ever used, from concealment to retention to release it is bloody brilliant. And quite a few others here have one as well and agree with me.

Excellent, thank you! I just ordered a left handed one from AHolster
https://aholster.com/product/pocket-backbone/

I’ve been experimenting with right hand AIWB semiauto and left hand J-frame backup and this looks perfect!


How similar are the external dimensions? The only two dimensions that seem to matter to me are thickness and grip length. Weight and barrel length are irrelevant to concealment for me.

What position do you carry? AIWB for me, slide length matters a little. I usually compensate by going higher ride on a holster so the slide ends at the same location relative to my junk. I could see it not mattering as much if 4 o’clock.

Weight to me doesn’t affect concealment, but it does a little for comfort when active like doing things with my kiddo like playing in a bounce house, lol.

[RJ]

71"



Maybe I've just been lucky to choose better holsters and belts, but it's never been an issue for me. I mean, I carried a P220 and two spare mags or a P226 and one spare mag, handcuffs, badge, and radio on a Red Nichols "triple curve" belt for years. With a loaded Foster's coin sap in my front pocket. I just can't fathom 4-5 oz mattering in the slightest. If my belt and holster made it were balancing a few ounces was an issue, I'd swap the belt and holster.

Gotcha. As a .civ, obviously I have none of that stuff. Maybe a phone and truck keys? But with a thick Mitch Rosen leather belt and a JM CK IWB, there was enough weight by adding a Glock 19 that I had to tighten the belt so much to ‘stay’ that it was pretty uncomfortable. I even asked Tony for advice, because my pants were always being pulled down, and he suggested either the suspenders or a fabric he mentioned I could attach to the back of the holster to increase the friction of the Kydex. Its quite possible my particular body shape may play have played a role. Anyway, that was a few years ago. As say, I’ll never go back to behind the hip, it’s just so much better to AIWB.

[RJ]

Thanks guys... I made that myself but it's an exact copy of the AHolster Pocket Backbone. I stole the design because it's only for myself... I would not make one for anyone else.
But definitely try one out from AHolster... It is hands down the best pocket holster I have ever used, from concealment to retention to release it is bloody brilliant. And quite a few others here have one as well and agree with me.

Seconded. Aholster are excellent.

[matto]

Seconded. Aholster are excellent.

I have a vedder pocket holster for my Ruger LCP and the holster comes out with the gun almost every time. It has the little hook thingy, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I guess I need to twist it just right to get it to grab.

[Caballoflaco]

matto how many consecutive days/weeks have you carried the p01?

I ask because if carrying is only a weekend/ after work or occasional proposition then it’s going to take a lot longer to become accustomed to carrying any handgun. If a friend has a decent holster and belt I usually recommend they carry every day from when they put their pants on to when they take them off for at least two weeks so they can learn to deal with some minor discomfort.

[matto]

matto how many consecutive days/weeks have you carried the p01?

Yes, so far it's just been partial days, swapping between them, etc. And with the shutdowns I'm spending most of the time with them around the house - sitting, standing and walking around the house.


I think you're probably right I should give it a try for a solid 2 weeks and see if it disappears.

[RJ]

I have a vedder pocket holster for my Ruger LCP and the holster comes out with the gun almost every time. It has the little hook thingy, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I guess I need to twist it just right to get it to grab.

If you haven’t tried them, the Desantis Nemesis is another option. One has worked well for me with an LCR, a P365 and a Glock 26. Gun comes out clean every time.

[GearFondler]

I have a vedder pocket holster for my Ruger LCP and the holster comes out with the gun almost every time. It has the little hook thingy, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I guess I need to twist it just right to get it to grab.The secret to the Backbone is the spike at the top of the holster (at the rear sight), not the hook at the bottom. The hook at the bottom is merely a last ditch option which requires one to drag the holster rearward against the pocket in a slow and awkward way. Any pocket holster that is designed to be "waved off" is a no-go for me.
The top spike however is the shit... It immediately grabs onto the pocket lining and holds itself in place as the gun is drawn upwards in a natural ergonomic draw motion.

[BehindBlueI's]

Did you carry AIWB?

As a detective, no. In some settings, yes. I've got pictures in one of the revolver threads of my GP100MC and a speed loader AIWB. I also have a G45 (my first optic equipped pistol) that I carry AIWB. Neither are, of course, light guns.


Yeah, they all vary in length and width as well, so it's hard to isolate which factor matters most. I can see barrel length not mattering (within reason). But weight bounces around more as you move, walk, etc.

If it bounces that's an issue. A good belt and holster at the proper height shouldn't leave a gun bouncing. How "top heavy" is your set up?


Gotcha. As a .civ, obviously I have none of that stuff. Maybe a phone and truck keys? But with a thick Mitch Rosen leather belt and a JM CK IWB, there was enough weight by adding a Glock 19 that I had to tighten the belt so much to ‘stay’ that it was pretty uncomfortable. I even asked Tony for advice, because my pants were always being pulled down, and he suggested either the suspenders or a fabric he mentioned I could attach to the back of the holster to increase the friction of the Kydex. Its quite possible my particular body shape may play have played a role. Anyway, that was a few years ago. As say, I’ll never go back to behind the hip, it’s just so much better to AIWB.

Thick isn't the only measure of good. A thin belt can be a good belt if it's shaped right.

[TheNewbie]

As a detective, no. In some settings, yes. I've got pictures in one of the revolver threads of my GP100MC and a speed loader AIWB. I also have a G45 (my first optic equipped pistol) that I carry AIWB. Neither are, of course, light guns.



If it bounces that's an issue. A good belt and holster at the proper height shouldn't leave a gun bouncing. How "top heavy" is your set up?



Thick isn't the only measure of good. A thin belt can be a good belt if it's shaped right.



Thanks! I still just don't feel comfortable AIWB (maybe I should be), but I get the appeal.

[Quantrill]

I don’t remember who on P-F tested a Glock and found that the striker had sufficient energy to ignite a primer when released from the resting position.

With that in mind, why is “partially tensioned” inherently better than “fully tensioned”?

[BehindBlueI's]

Thanks! I still just don't feel comfortable AIWB (maybe I should be), but I get the appeal.

Like most things, it's a trade off and not for everyone in every context. I'm still a fan of strong side behind the hip as well.

[sikiguya]

The XDE sounded promising until I saw one at the LGS. It’s a lot bigger given the world we live in...with p365,hello at, 43x. I’d rather go with a P225 or P239 than that XDE.

Watched the video by Warrior Poet Society. Almost in every carry position, you will be flagging yourself. It’s a contradiction, when carrying, to all the firearm rules that have been uttered to us relentlessly since we picked up a gun.

You have to get good in your mindset that a firearm, in a good solid holster, will not go off on its own. It is almost always the unholstering and reholstering when something goes wrong.

If you don’t believe me, load all your gun/holster combo and let them sit on a table.

It’s like golf...the hardest 6” is between your ears.(that’s what she said[emoji12])


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

66294

G45, SCD equipped, with holoson and TLR-1HL. I don't know what it weighs but I just walked 3.5 miles with it and can do jumping jacks and it doesn't move.

Shivworks belt, Red1USA holster.

[farscott]

For me, weight, within reason, is not a concern for carry. I find carrying a .45 ACP five-inch 1911 less hassle and more comfortable than carrying a Glock 26.3 in the same IWB holster design (Sparks VM-2 or Criterion) on the same belt. I also carry a spare magazine, two phones, a Seecamp LWS-32, pocket knife, keys, money clip, wallet, and a Foster coin purse. The thickness of a pistol across the slide and grip is a much bigger factor than weight.

[JCN]

G45, SCD equipped, with holoson and TLR-1HL. I don't know what it weighs but I just walked 3.5 miles with it and can do jumping jacks and it doesn't move.

Shivworks belt, Red1USA holster.

Respectfully and not meant in a derogatory way, but the handles of love may act as a retention feature in your case.

66296

If I take a similar picture with the belt cinched as tight as I can comfortably go, there’s nothing preventing it from moving upwards in a bounce.

66298

So leaner people or more V-shaped people might notice it more (the OP is a road cyclist so I am going to guess this might apply to him too) in the upward direction.

And if you take into account what RJ said, the reverse also holds for the reverse shape (larger waist, no butt) with regards to downwards fall.

Just food for thought.

[BehindBlueI's]

Respectfully and not meant in a derogatory way, but the handles of love may act as a retention feature in your case.


No offense taken. I know I'm still 20-30 lbs overweight, facts are facts.

However I don't think it's keeping anything from bouncing based on two things:

1) I know rail then guys who carry an issued Glock 17M with no bounce issues. Plenty of inertially challenged folks on this forum carry heavy guns as well.

2) Ever seen a fat guy do the Baywatch run? Jiggly bits bounce themselves, they aren't load bearing and keeping anything else from bouncing...

Exhibit A:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uco5DiVSvPg

[JCN]

No offense taken. I know I'm still 20-30 lbs overweight, facts are facts.

However I don't think it's keeping anything from bouncing based on two things:

1) I know rail then guys who carry an issued Glock 17M with no bounce issues. Plenty of inertially challenged folks on this forum carry heavy guns as well.

2) Ever seen a fat guy do the Baywatch run? Jiggly bits bounce themselves, they aren't load bearing and keeping anything else from bouncing...

Exhibit A:

Hehe. I'm just spitballing here.
If you're talking about issued 17Ms carried OWB on a duty belt it might be a different situation. I can run with an OWB holster and belt system with a 4 pound loaded gun without an issue.

I can cinch a heavy gun tight enough that it doesn't move AIWB, but it's decidedly less comfortable than a lighter gun and less tight of a belt.

I think there's the "right amount" of jiggliness that makes things stay put, lol.

My workaround for the issue is a hybrid holster system with a grippy leather backing so it doesn't slide on the body or undershirt as much.

It's kind of an extension of one of our previous discussions though... I feel a little badly for not carrying the gun I shoot best but that would be a heavy and large gun... and like you said, absolute performance past a certain point of objective competence isn't the most important thing. So I use a micro-gun and just make sure I can pass objective performance standards reserved usually for larger firearms.

So I guess my overall point is that I "could" carry a heavier gun, but I do notice a comfort difference in the way that I carry. Should I carry a larger and heavier gun? Sometimes I think I should.

[BehindBlueI's]

If you're talking about issued 17Ms carried OWB on a duty belt it might be a different situation. ...

So I guess my overall point is that I "could" carry a heavier gun, but I do notice a comfort difference in the way that I carry. Should I carry a larger and heavier gun? Sometimes I think I should.

No, I mean plain clothes or off duty.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't. How comfortable you need to be vs whatever gains you may or may not have is your own calculus. I'm just saying that with the proper set up I don't think a few ounces matter and just showed a gun that's more then a few ounces different as an illustration. I find the grip to be the hardest part to conceal due to the thickness. I can carry a GP100MC with compact grip and it's easier to conceal.

[Brianjkeene]

Really need an SCD for the hellcat. It’s so similar internally and externally to a Glock that it should be feasible. Commercially, it could be viable too I would think.

[GearFondler]

G45, SCD equipped, with holoson and TLR-1HL. I don't know what it weighs but I just walked 3.5 miles with it and can do jumping jacks and it doesn't move.

Shivworks belt, Red1USA holster.

But can you do a backflip on the dance floor without shit flying around? [emoji38]

[BehindBlueI's]

But can you do a backflip on the dance floor without shit flying around? [emoji38]

Well, since you can cut it at "can you do a backflip" and the answer is no...no. :D

[Brianjkeene]

Due to the design of the Hellcat striker (specifically the rearward protruding portion of the striker lug) and intersecting design of the striker guide and striker locking plate, a simple Glock-style slide cover plate based SCD isn't feasible.

Thanks for chiming in and letting us know.

[Wepeel]

The Springfield XDS is a partially cocked striker. Thumbing the back of the slide when holstering releases the grip safety so even if something caught the trigger it couldn't fire.

[Evil_Ed]

I am a broken record on this topic:

The Walther P99c is not for everybody, of course (paddle mag release is off-putting for some), but should be on your list to at least look at. It the size of a G26, striker fired, DA/SA, and holding down the decocker button is similar to thumbing the hammer on a hammer-fired DA/SA in that there is a lug on the upper side of the striker which interfaces with a piece of the decocker button such that when the decocker button is held down, the striker cannot travel far enough forward to strike the primer of a chambered round even if the trigger is pulled through its entire stroke.

(I have personally verified this with mine and a primed but otherwise empty case. Hold decocker button down, pull trigger, and you get a click from the striker being tensioned and then released, but nothing else happens. Release decocker button, pull trigger, primer pops.)

I've got a full size and a P99c, and if there's any one big issue with them, it's that their frame/grip has zero traction. Nothing grip tape can't solve, but it's worth mentioning. Other issues include mags may be hard to find these says (I stocked up a while ago, but I doubt they're in surplus these days), and holsters don't exactly grow on trees for these things...

And, sadly Walther has (as far as I can tell) discontinued the P99c. On the upshot, Earl still has some...but he's proud of them, and wants a lot of money for them.

The other major "downer" with them is that they're not really RDO-compatible, given where the decocker is. Oh well.

But...for a DA/SA almost-pocket-sized double stack gun? I'm not sure they share that market with anyone. I really wish they were still on the market; they tick an awful lot of boxes without a lot of compromises to get there.

[olstyn]

I've got a full size and a P99c, and if there's any one big issue with them, it's that their frame/grip has zero traction. Nothing grip tape can't solve, but it's worth mentioning.

Funny, I use my full size for USPSA, and I've never felt that it was slippery. Either my hands are exceptionally sticky or I don't know what I'm missing. :)


Other issues include mags may be hard to find these says (I stocked up a while ago, but I doubt they're in surplus these days),

Waltherarms.com has them. They're $42, which kind of sucks, and currently show out of stock, but in theory at least, they're available.


and holsters don't exactly grow on trees for these things...

As it turns out, at least some PPQ holsters will fit them fine. I just recently bought a JMCK wing claw 2.5 for the PPQ, and it fits both my P99 and P99c quite well. (I don't even own a PPQ.)


And, sadly Walther has (as far as I can tell) discontinued the P99c. On the upshot, Earl still has some...but he's proud of them, and wants a lot of money for them.

Yeah, Earl is proud of everything. I'm kind of amazed that he actually makes any sales of anything, given his pricing.


The other major "downer" with them is that they're not really RDO-compatible, given where the decocker is. Oh well.

Yup. Want a red dot on a Walther, you need to buy a PPQ, and that's essentially SAO with no manual safety.


But...for a DA/SA almost-pocket-sized double stack gun? I'm not sure they share that market with anyone. I really wish they were still on the market; they tick an awful lot of boxes without a lot of compromises to get there.

Have to agree with you on that - there are basically only 2 options for "DA/SA equivalent to a G26" - the P99c and the CZ Rami. Both have their fans, and both are kind of obscure.

[Lex Luthier]

Funny, I use my full size for USPSA, and I've never felt that it was slippery. Either my hands are exceptionally sticky or I don't know what I'm missing. :)



Waltherarms.com has them. They're $42, which kind of sucks, and currently show out of stock, but in theory at least, they're available.



As it turns out, at least some PPQ holsters will fit them fine. I just recently bought a JMCK wing claw 2.5 for the PPQ, and it fits both my P99 and P99c quite well. (I don't even own a PPQ.)



Yeah, Earl is proud of everything. I'm kind of amazed that he actually makes any sales of anything, given his pricing.



Yup. Want a red dot on a Walther, you need to buy a PPQ, and that's essentially SAO with no manual safety.



Have to agree with you on that - there are basically only 2 options for "DA/SA equivalent to a G26" - the P99c and the CZ Rami. Both have their fans, and both are kind of obscure.

You know, the US Market managed to drive Walther to make a button-mag-release version of the PPQ...it might be possible to urge them to make a run of P99Cs every 6-8 months for the US market, if the demand is there. I'm sure they haven't trashed the mold...it's probably an issue pistol for the detective bureaus of one or two German state police organizations.

[revchuck38]

Walther's European catalog (https://www.carl-walther.com/defense/products/pistols) shows the full-size P99 but not the P99c. My two P99cs are '16 production, hopefully, they'll last a while.

[Clusterfrack]

Singlestack Glocks with a SCD seem like the easy button here...

[TheNewbie]

Singlestack Glocks with a SCD seem like the easy button here...

The SCD is the best after market Glock part. For me, it’s essential and it should be factory normal to have it. However, with a standard Glock trigger, I can generally overcome the SCD if I use enough pressure, the same pressure that will not allow my hammer fired P-07 to fire.


The law of physics and all that I guess.


On a single stack slimline Glock, I would think you would be able to have greater control over the SCD than on a full size gun. Especially with small hands like I have.

[zaitcev]

On a single stack slimline Glock, I would think you would be able to have greater control over the SCD than on a full size gun. Especially with small hands like I have.
I have a G42 with SCD and at times I wish I didn't. Thumbing the SCD requires to migrate the hand so much down along the already short handle of the gun that I am very concerned that I'll drop it one day.

[Evil_Ed]

Funny, I use my full size for USPSA, and I've never felt that it was slippery. Either my hands are exceptionally sticky or I don't know what I'm missing. :)
When I try using mine when it's hot/sweaty out, it's like trying to grip a moist bar of soap...it moves, a lot. I had a set of Talons on my full size and those wound up moving, a lot. (The grips actually lost traction on the gun and would slide around)...now that Talon makes those intermediate grips, I need to buy a set and give those a try. I have a set on a Gen 3 Glock 21 and that thing is now planted, hard, so I'm looking forward to giving those a try. My hands are XL sized and a bit soft (thanks, decades of computers) so my grip is probably going to be a bit different than others.


Waltherarms.com has them. They're $42, which kind of sucks, and currently show out of stock, but in theory at least, they're available.
They've been that way for a while...maybe they come back in stock, but I wouldn't buy a P99c now and count on that, personally :(


As it turns out, at least some PPQ holsters will fit them fine. I just recently bought a JMCK wing claw 2.5 for the PPQ, and it fits both my P99 and P99c quite well. (I don't even own a PPQ.)
Funny thing - I ordered an original JMCK Claw for my P99 (gen 2)...they sent me one for a gen 1. I told them, they said I could send it back and they'd reform the trigger guard area, or I could just heat it up and do it myself (or something like that, I'll have to go back over my old emails...maybe their gen 2 broke and they grabbed the gen 1? I don't recall %100). Anyway, while my P99 full size wouldn't fit it without some alterations...the P99c dropped and clicked in like it was made for it. I wound up heating up and reforming the retention area and now my P99 and P99C both fit it. Sadly I don't think they offer a P99 holster at all anymore..when I asked them about the PPQ/P99 fit, I was told they were incompatible, so...

If the PPQ does a reasonably good job of retaining a P99, I am on-freaking-board for a new JMCK AIWB. Not that the original one is bad, but I'd really rather have loops a ways apart than the old polymer single clip in the front..


Have to agree with you on that - there are basically only 2 options for "DA/SA equivalent to a G26" - the P99c and the CZ Rami. Both have their fans, and both are kind of obscure.
You know, I totally forgot about the Rami. I fondled one of those but wasn't really...impressed? I looked at it and thought "oh boy, that's a mildly expensive gunsmith puzzle" and put it back down. Obviously YMMV..

[farscott]

The SCD is the best after market Glock part. For me, it’s essential and it should be factory normal to have it. However, with a standard Glock trigger, I can generally overcome the SCD if I use enough pressure, the same pressure that will not allow my hammer fired P-07 to fire.


The law of physics and all that I guess.


On a single stack slimline Glock, I would think you would be able to have greater control over the SCD than on a full size gun. Especially with small hands like I have.

Perhaps I am not understanding or use the SCD differently, but I do not press the SCD firmly. I press it lightly so that I can feel any small movement. That is my signal that the trigger is being fouled, and I need to stop and assess. I am trying to insure the trigger is not being moved as part of the holstering process. Any trigger movement is an indication of an issue. Even if the SCD could stop the trigger from moving during the holstering process, what happens once thumb pressure is removed if the cause of the trigger movement is not addressed? Would the pistol then fire?

In summary, I do not understand the need to apply much force to the SCD.

[Clusterfrack]

I agree with this. I hope it's not too much of a thread drift to discuss thumbing the hammer or SCD while holstering.

A few years ago Mr_White said something like "holster deliberately and reluctantly". For me this means a "hard break" from a strong grip and tense wrists to fine motor control and sensory focus on the gun and holster--including assessment of any force coming back from the hammer/SCD. In my opinion gross motor patterns are the enemy of safe holstering. (E.g. the "speed slam" that makes so many of us cringe.)

On the other hand, some holsters (e.g. LE retention type) can require more force to fully insert the gun. Maybe worth discussing?


Perhaps I am not understanding or use the SCD differently, but I do not press the SCD firmly. I press it lightly so that I can feel any small movement. That is my signal that the trigger is being fouled, and I need to stop and assess. I am trying to insure the trigger is not being moved as part of the holstering process. Any trigger movement is an indication of an issue. Even if the SCD could stop the trigger from moving during the holstering process, what happens once thumb pressure is removed if the cause of the trigger movement is not addressed? Would the pistol then fire?

In summary, I do not understand the need to apply much force to the SCD.

[OfficeCat]

I'm a big fan of the PPS M2. The way the striker protrudes through the rear of the slide and the ease with which it can be ridden with the thumb is a great feature. I have found that width is a much bigger factor in comfort and concealment than length or height when carried AIWB. I notice no difference in concealability with the 8 round mags as compared to the 6 or 7 rounders. I find the PPS very easy to shoot well.

The other two pistols I have that have competed with the PPS for carry duty are the HK P30sk and the full size Walter P99. Love them both but neither are as comfortable or concealable as the PPS, nor do they provide much of a bonus in shootability. The P99 does have a significant capacity advantage which leads me to carry it at times. I love the LEM action on the P30sk but it only offers 2 additional rounds over the PPS and if anything is less concealable and less comfortable than the P99. The tapered shape of the rear of the slide and the shape of the grip on the P99 are very conducive to AIWB carry.

For comparative purposes I'm 5'11" and weigh around 215 pounds, soft around the middle.

[Rex G]

I'm considering my options for a carry pistol and I'd like to narrow my search to pistols that meet two specific constraints.

1. Does not have a fully tensioned striker, and

2. Allows thumbing the "hammer" when holstering.

DA/SA guns with external hammers obviously meet both of these, and I have a few, but they tend to be heavier and have short barrels relative to their striker fired peers. Some other examples include:

- Glocks allow the installation of a striker control device.
- I believe that both the CZ P10 and FN pistols have partially tensioned strikers so someone could make a striker control device, but no one does
- My ruger lcp has a mostly internal hammer but I can still stop it from moving if I press just right with my thumb

Guns like the Kahr PM9 are double action (ish?) but I don't see a way to thumb the striker

Any other ideas on what to look at?

Revolving pistols, of course. Making hammers thumb-able, on repeating pistols, since the 1830s. :cool:

HK P7. The striker de-cocks when the lever along the front of the grip is released, and, the striker extends from the rear of the slide, when cocked, so, can be monitored with the thumb, during holstering. The P7’s self-decocking striker was quite the big deal, as a safety feature, in its day. Forget using a thumb-forward hold with the support hand, unless you liked touching hot stoves, as a child; there is a gas cylinder under that dust cover.

[jetfire]

The Beretta APX allows you to block the firing pin your thumb; the FP block is on top of the slide and can be interrupted with your thumb while holstering. You lose this ability when you mount a dot.

[Clusterfrack]

The Beretta APX allows you to block the firing pin your thumb; the FP block is on top of the slide and can be interrupted with your thumb while holstering. You lose this ability when you mount a dot.

I can't figure out how this works. Is it not the pinhole in the slide plate?

[jetfire]

I can't figure out how this works. Is it not the pinhole in the slide plate?

Top of the slide, just forward of the rear sight is the firing pin block. That moves up when the trigger is pressed, so thumbing over it allows you to feel pressure if the trigger starts moving to the rear.