Is it possible to learn to love the glock grip angle?

[matto]

I really want to buy a Glock 43/48 combo (which also gives me a G43x for free!), for various reasons. I could list those reasons, but I suspect it will derail the thread.

My problem is that I can't get past the grip angle. When I grip the gun naturally, it points up into the sky. Of course I can bring it down, but it takes thought, and feels fairly unnatural. I won't say "uncomfortable" as if it hurts my wrists, but it doesn't feel particularly comfortable or natural either.

Is this something I can get used to? If I buy one and shoot it a lot, will it become second nature? Will I be able to switch between it and my other guns without being frustrated? I don't plan to get rid of my CZs and Berettas.

The Glock checks a lot of boxes that I'm looking for in a carry gun. But jesus, why did they have to make the grip so stupid shaped?

[blues]

Nope. That's why nobody carries them.

[matto]

Nope. That's why nobody carries them.

Har har har.

Not everyone hates the angle when they pick them up for the first time. I'm trying to discuss those folks who disliked the grip at first, but got used to it - or maybe even learned to appreciate it more than other grips - after getting used to it.

[Caballoflaco]

Yes, you can get used to the grip angle and you don’t even have to burn ammo to do it. Simply practice presentation from the ready or draw until you can index the sight reliably.

Look at it as an easily solved challenge and not some big obstacle and you’ll be where you want to be in no time.

[blues]

Har har har.

Not everyone hates the angle when they pick them up for the first time. I'm curious how many folks hated the grip at first, but learned to like it - or maybe even appreciate it after getting used to it.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

I'm no expert but I've carried a variety of firearms on and off the job over the past several decades. I think every platform has adjustments that will be required. For me, with Gen2 Glocks, I thought the grip was too thick and blocky. When I got my recent G26.5, which comes standard with a smaller grip, I had to put on a back strap to make it feel like my Gen 2.5 G26.

I never had an issue with grip angle or how it pointed. Perhaps it's just that I didn't find it difficult to adjust to the Glock, same as when I had to carry a Colt Series 70 or a third generation S&W.

I think it's just a matter of familiarity and patience. But I'm sure others will disagree and that is absolutely fine.

I only carry Glocks these days...unless it's a J frame in and around home.

[BehindBlueI's]

It's really not that big a deal. Practice through dry fire and after enough presentations you'll point it naturally. Some say the angle is better for recoil control. I don't know.

If you can bounce back and forth is very dependent on your skill level and your willingness to practice. I tend to *not* bounce back and forth. I can do acceptably well by "re-educating myself" going between Sig and Glock, but I won't do *as well* as if I'd just stuck to one or the other. The fact there are multi-discipline masters show that if you're willing to put in the work it's quite possible to bounce back and forth. I just know I'll never be one and work within my own limitations.

[RJ]

Yes, you can get used to the grip angle and you don’t even have to burn ammo to do it. Simply practice presentation from the ready or draw until you can index the sight reliably.

Look at it as an easily solved challenge and not some big obstacle and you’ll be where you want to be in no time.

This.

The whole ‘I can’t shoot Glocks’ because grip angle is just so much Internet derp. Get sight picture, press trigger without moving front sight.

Now if one said ‘I can’t shoot Glocks straight because of the staple gun trigger’, you’d have a case...:cool:

[dontshakepandas]

You can absolutely get used to it through dry and live fire practice.

I fought getting a Glock for a while because of that, but once I got one and got used to it it just became the new normal. When I tried to switch to a HK P30s last year that grip angle felt weird to me and I had to work to relearn that.

Ultimately, I decided I didn’t have the time and energy to put into relearning so I went back to Glock. If you have time to consistently work with both platforms you might be done rubbing both, but I definitely prefer to keep everything the same. I have a one year old so your amount of time you have to devote to practice may be more than mine though.

[Clusterfrack]

As many upthread posts have said, yes, you can use a Glock without compromising your ability to shoot other guns. My support hand grip and thumb alignment on the side of the frame drives my freestyle index, and I have zero difficulty switching between CZs and Glocks. I can “crush out” misalignment of my strong hand when I miss my grip, or am shooting an unfamiliar gun. However, my SHO/WHO index does require a periodic tuneup. Fortunately CZs and Glocks index quite similarly for me.

I have come to strongly prefer an angled grip, like a Glock or CZ, over a vertical grip like a Sig, Beretta. or 1911/2011. Angled grips make it easier for me to keep my wrists locked without adding too much tension to my hands (especially strong hand wrist/hand).

[JCN]

I really want to buy a Glock 43/48 combo (which also gives me a G43x for free!), for various reasons. I could list those reasons, but I suspect it will derail the thread.

My problem is that I can't get past the grip angle. When I grip the gun naturally, it points up into the sky. Of course I can bring it down, but it takes thought, and feels fairly unnatural. I won't say "uncomfortable" as if it hurts my wrists, but it doesn't feel particularly comfortable or natural either.

Is this something I can get used to? If I buy one and shoot it a lot, will it become second nature? Will I be able to switch between it and my other guns without being frustrated? I don't plan to get rid of my CZs and Berettas.

The Glock checks a lot of boxes that I'm looking for in a carry gun. But jesus, why did they have to make the grip so stupid shaped?

This might not apply to you, so disregard if it doesn't.

I'm a CZ shooter too and while I can shoot Glocks pretty well, it does slow me down 0.1-0.2s or so in some drills because I have to micro-adjust the sight picture.
It's not a big deal, but it does reduce my absolute performance going back and forth.

With regard to the G43/48 and G43x, I ultimately went with a P365x (P365 slide and XL frame) as the grip angle is a lot more similar to CZs and there's less of a delta when going very fast.

Slower fire or when I'm already tracking the dot, doesn't matter if it's a Glock or a CZ. But for pure speed on presentation, I default to what I know best (CZs).

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[littlejerry]

When I was a new shooter I was convinced Glocks were unshootable because of the grip.

I ended up with a G3 G19 because a friend needed to sell it. Right around that time I got into USPSA and learned how to actually shoot. I ended up selling my CZ75 and buying another G19 so I could have separate carry and comp guns.

It's easy to fall into the trap of "OMG this gun didn't shoot perfect" when you're a new shooter. The reality is once you put in the time and practice you'll shoot anything better than you shoot that "natural pointer" as a novice.

With all that said, a G43 is not an easy gun to shoot. I don't have much time with a G48. Neither would be my first choice for an inexperienced shooter who wants to learn.

[JCN]

Also...

If you don't like that the P365 doesn't have a trigger dongle and you don't like manual safeties...

There's this option (out of stock currently).

https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/vuurwapen-hmc9-80-hybrid-micro-compact-frame/

It uses a G43/48 upper and trigger group, but has P365 grip angle and uses Sig magazines.

[snow white]

I switched to glock about six months ago from carrying exclusively da/sa berettas and CZs. Last carry gun before my G19 was the px4cc. Even though I loved the pistol the lack of light/ holster/ dot options made me throw my hands up and say "fuck it im getting a glock". I was told numerous times how its not a good idea and so on and so forth. As it turns out It was absolutely not a big deal at all. Getting accustomed to the grip angle was no big deal at all. For how I hold the gun I prefer the glock angle, it allows me to really drive into the gun in a way I couldn't do with other pistols. I still own ltt 92 compact and use that for dryfire every now and again, Zero issues getting on The sights (irons). If I were just shooting irons than maby it might effect me more but with a dot its a non issue. In fact I plan on buying the rds slide for my 92 in the near future and will happily add that to my carry guns with zero worry. Dry-fire is god, rep it out and you will be golden.

[matto]

Thanks everyone. I'm sufficiently inspired that I could get used to a glock if I decided to.

I'm still a little concerned about going back and forth though. I really like my CZ P-01 and SP-01 Shadow and LTT 92G. It would take a lot to replace them all with glocks.... but never say never?



With regard to the G43/48 and G43x, I ultimately went with a P365x (P365 slide and XL frame) as the grip angle is a lot more similar to CZs and there's less of a delta when going very fast.

Right. I actually own a P365 and love it. And because it fits me so well, I ordered a P365XL and it's waiting at the FFL for me to pick it up.

So I suppose I should mention the reason why I am trying to talk myself into switch to glock. This will probably make all the sig owners get defensive and/or poop themselves, but here goes. It relates to the mechanical safeties

1. I carry AIWB and feel significantly more comfortable holstering when I can thumb the hammer when inserting. If my shirt or something is in the holster, the gun cannot go bang end my life. I'm 100% comfortable carrying my P-01 appendix. A Glock allows the same assurance with the installation of a striker control device. Some poo-poo these, but holstering might just be the most dangerous thing we do with our guns so I really appreciate this added level of safety. For those not familiar, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7xYMChXjo

2. Sig P365 and P365XL have a single point of failure on the mechanical safeties on their guns. If the "foot" on the back of the striker breaks, the gun goes bang. This is true even if it has a manual safety. The glock internal safeties are designed in a much more resilient way. See this video for details https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D03ms4E3VI

3. Fully tensioned striker vs partially tensioned. This combines with #2, in that if #2 fails you're done - the striker is fully tensioned and ready to shoot your junk off. With the glock, even if all the other safeties failed (damn near impossible) and the striker released, it still won't set off the primer because it's like 1/3 tensioned.

On a glock, it's damn near impossible for it to go off without actually pulling the trigger. And it isn't possible to pull the trigger while holstering, because my thumb will be on the back of the slide. It's also a very low chance that i'd have an accident with the Sig, but it's definitely higher than with the glock. And this all goes away if I am willing to get used to the grip angle on the glock.

Can of worms officially opened.

[RJ]

1. I carry AIWB and feel significantly more comfortable holstering when I can thumb the hammer when inserting. If my shirt or something is in the holster, the gun cannot go bang end my life. Glock allows the same assurance with the installation of a striker control device. Some poo-poo these, but holstering might just be the most dangerous thing we do with our guns so I really appreciate this added level of safety. For those not familiar, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7xYMChXjo

2. Sig P365 and P365XL have a single point of failure on the mechanical safeties on their guns. If the "foot" on the back of the striker breaks, the gun goes bang. This is true even if it has a manual safety. The glock internal safeties are designed in a much more resilient way. See this video for details https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D03ms4E3VI

3. Fully tensioned striker vs partially tensioned. This combines with #2, in that if #2 fails you're done.

On a glock, it's damn near impossible for it to go off without actually pulling the trigger. And it isn't possible to pull the trigger while holstering, because my thumb will be on the back of the slide. It's still an incredibly low chance that i'd have an accident with the Sig, but it's definitely higher than with the glock. And this all goes away if I am willing to get used to the grip angle on the glock.



I don't think many here would disagree with this philosophy. I don't. It encapsulates almost exactly why there's a SCD-equipped G48 in a Dark Star Gear Hitchiker AIWB holster on me right now.

[snow white]

Me too baby!
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[BehindBlueI's]

1. I carry AIWB and feel significantly more comfortable holstering when I can thumb the hammer when inserting. If my shirt or something is in the holster, the gun cannot go bang end my life. I'm 100% comfortable carrying my P-01 appendix. A Glock allows the same assurance with the installation of a striker control device. Some poo-poo these, but holstering might just be the most dangerous thing we do with our guns so I really appreciate this added level of safety. For those not familiar, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7xYMChXjo

I think you'll find a lot of familiarity with the device and agreement on it's merits here. The purveyor of said device is a former owner of this forum and maintains a sub-forum here: https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?88-Tau-Development-Group

And I agree. I won't put something without a hammer/SCD in the front of my pants. I do not trust myself to be zero defect and an additionally layer of safety is much appreciated.

[Clusterfrack]

matto, all of my Glocks have SCDs. But also, many will agree that the default handgun is a Glock. (And the AR is the default long gun.) So, I would say that everyone should be able to shoot a Glock and an AR. Given that logic, I divested myself of my Sigs because they didn't offer me anything more than a Glock (totally personal choice), and I want to keep things simple. Of course, I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I'm carrying a CZ P-07.

[mmc45414]

You absolutely can if you wanna, I did. Later I decided there were other factors and moved away but not because I "couldn't" do it, i just decided i didn't have to.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[JAH 3rd]

My first 3 Glocks were of the model 21 (45acp) variety. Didn't even think of trying a 9 or 40. I had to have the 45acp. The grip was a wee bit big for my tastes, but man, I had a 13 round magazine chocked full of 45. Well fast-forward a few years, dare I say decades, and a friend purchases a Glock 19 gen 5. I shot it at the range one day, and no, the light didn't come on.......no, it was a massive neon billboard. The size of the grip was so much manageable than that of the model 21. For me, it wasn't the grip angle so much, it was the fact my hand and Glock 19 gen 5 were very compatible. I bought a Glock 17 gen 5 and haven't doubted my decision one bit. The grip, size, angle, and texture.....trigger reach and 100% function all came together in this platform.

I sort of look at this journey as someone who wears a size 11 shoe, but crams his foot in a size 10 shoe. Not a good fit. But a size 11 works because my foot fits it. That's how I look at my Glock 17. It fits and it works for me.

As far as any firearm goes, practice and familiarity with the platform determines if one is compatible with it. No doubt many of us on the forum have bought a firearm, just had to have it, only to be disappointed when it didn't live up to the hype or our expectations.

[JCN]

1. I carry AIWB and feel significantly more comfortable holstering when I can thumb the hammer when inserting. If my shirt or something is in the holster, the gun cannot go bang end my life. I'm 100% comfortable carrying my P-01 appendix. A Glock allows the same assurance with the installation of a striker control device. Some poo-poo these, but holstering might just be the most dangerous thing we do with our guns so I really appreciate this added level of safety. For those not familiar, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7xYMChXjo

2. Sig P365 and P365XL have a single point of failure on the mechanical safeties on their guns. If the "foot" on the back of the striker breaks, the gun goes bang. This is true even if it has a manual safety. The glock internal safeties are designed in a much more resilient way. See this video for details https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D03ms4E3VI

3. Fully tensioned striker vs partially tensioned. This combines with #2, in that if #2 fails you're done - the striker is fully tensioned and ready to shoot your junk off. With the glock, even if all the other safeties failed (damn near impossible) and the striker released, it still won't set off the primer because it's like 1/3 tensioned.

On a glock, it's damn near impossible for it to go off without actually pulling the trigger. And it isn't possible to pull the trigger while holstering, because my thumb will be on the back of the slide. It's also a very low chance that i'd have an accident with the Sig, but it's definitely higher than with the glock. And this all goes away if I am willing to get used to the grip angle on the glock.

Can of worms officially opened.

Very thoughtfully and articulately stated. I have SCDs on all the Glocks I either drill with or carry because of the reholstering issue.

I even modified a Glock SCD to fit my MR920 because I could change the backstrap to point like a CZ, but otherwise be a Glock internally. Would have suggested that if you were carrying a 19.

I know some don’t like aftermarket parts but a G43x with an S15 magazine is kind of a perfect carry gun.

[matto]

Of course, I'm a bit of a hypocrite here because I'm carrying a CZ P-07.

Haha. You hypocrite. :) So what inspires you to carry the P-07? I also have one of those. I like it, but I like (love) the P-01 more. My hangup is that it's 28 oz (unloaded) which is wider and 8 oz heavier than the G48. And despite similar height/length dimensions, the G48 somehow has a 4.17" barrel vs 3.75 on the P-01/P-07. On paper the Glock wins in almost every way. My P-01 is my favorite pistol, but I can't figure out how to make it disappear when carrying it like my P365 does in a Keepers Cornerstone holster.



I think you'll find a lot of familiarity with the device and agreement on it's merits here. The purveyor of said device is a former owner of this forum and maintains a sub-forum here: https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?88-Tau-Development-Group

And I agree. I won't put something without a hammer/SCD in the front of my pants. I do not trust myself to be zero defect and an additionally layer of safety is much appreciated.

Right, I'm with you. And thanks for the link!

[matto]

I even modified a Glock SCD to fit my MR920 because I could change the backstrap to point like a CZ, but otherwise be a Glock internally. Would have suggested that if you were carrying a 19.
Ok I'm officially interested. What is this thing? [googling now] Is it a modified glock, or it's own gun?



I know some don’t like aftermarket parts but a G43x with an S15 magazine is kind of a perfect carry gun.
I'm in a 10-round ban state, so a G43x is the best I can do anyway.



https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/vuurwapen-hmc9-80-hybrid-micro-compact-frame/

It uses a G43/48 upper and trigger group, but has P365 grip angle and uses Sig magazines.

Holy crap, that sounds ideal! But it's an 80% kind of thing. Not sure I want that as my carry gun. I'll have to read more. But thanks for the pointer!

[Clusterfrack]

The P-07 (with CGW parts) has become my favorite gun. I have 3 of them. It feels very similar to the Shadow2s I compete with--and practice with the most. (The P-01 and regular Shadow feel more similar to me.) The P-07 is one of the simplest TDA guns available, and spare parts are cheap. It's nearly as easy to detail strip as a Glock. As well, I prefer the polymer P-07s easily replaceable steel subframe inserts to the P-01's aluminum frame. I find it easy to conceal even under a smedium t-shirt with a JMCK AIWB WC 2.5. And I'm not a huge dude.

That said, I could be very happy with a P-01.


Haha. You hypocrite. :) So what inspires you to carry the P-07? I also have one of those. I like it, but I like (love) the P-01 more. My hangup is that it's 28 oz (unloaded) which is wider and 8 oz heavier than the G48. And despite similar height/length dimensions, the G48 somehow has a 4.17" barrel vs 3.75 on the P-01/P-07. On paper the Glock wins in almost every way. My P-01 is my favorite pistol, but I can't figure out how to make it disappear when carrying it like my P365 does in a Keepers Cornerstone holster.

[GJM]

The Glock grip angle is a feature not a bug, and the sooner you embrace that the better you will do with a Glock. If you do think it is a bug, better to go with something else.

[JCN]

Ok I'm officially interested. What is this thing? [googling now] Is it a modified glock, or it's own gun?

I'm in a 10-round ban state, so a G43x is the best I can do anyway.

Holy crap, that sounds ideal! But it's an 80% kind of thing. Not sure I want that as my carry gun. I'll have to read more. But thanks for the pointer!

MR920 is like a modified Glock, but is its own gun.
I didn’t want to modify a carry gun initially so that was my way around that.

It pretty much uses Glock internals except for the extractor mechanism. Everything else swaps over.
Even though they say it doesn’t work with SCDs, it does if you thin the lip of the rim a little.

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MR920, P01 and G43x.

I wonder if the 80% thing is to keep costs down and get around that Sig grips aren’t serialized but Glock frames are?

I like my P01 for shooting (also with CGW parts), but I get lazy for carry and carry a manual safety P365x.

Maybe I’ll put in the forged striker I have lying around.

[JCN]

2. Sig P365 and P365XL have a single point of failure on the mechanical safeties on their guns. If the "foot" on the back of the striker breaks, the gun goes bang. This is true even if it has a manual safety. The glock internal safeties are designed in a much more resilient way. See this video for details https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D03ms4E3VI

So here’s a question and I have to say that I am ignorant of how it works.
The “foot” of the striker on a Hellcat has been a breakage and failure point.

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I don’t know how the safety mechanisms work on that gun, but when people have broken strikers it’s just been that the next shot doesn’t go and they notice no strike.

So possibly by extension (and I’m just pulling this out of my ass so help me with the thinking it through):

If a P365 striker foot broke off, it’d probably break off early in the striker loading cycle and not actually load the striker spring, right? It’d probably break with slide cycling impact rather than let loose under static tension under full load I would think....

So even if it broke it’d probably just result in no strike rather than inappropriate strike don’t you think?

[DDTSGM]

Me too baby!
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Some things can't be unseen.

[JCN]

If a P365 striker foot broke off, it’d probably break off early in the striker loading cycle and not actually load the striker spring, right? It’d probably break with slide cycling impact rather than let loose under static tension under full load I would think....

So even if it broke it’d probably just result in no strike rather than inappropriate strike don’t you think?

Okay. So I did some googling and a metallurgist said this:

“Metallurgist here. The likelihood of that part searing off in a catastrophic failure while under normal cocked tension would be incredibly slim, like dying in a plane crash slim. Proper tempering of the metal makes it hard, but still somewhat flexible. If that part was going to shear off in this manner, it would happen from the shock of firing the handgun, which would cause that part to shear off completely, and not allow it to recock during cycling. The striker is not in a position where it could gain the leverage required to begin cracking from one side, failure of this part would have to be all or nothing. If the striker is case hardened, which I'm pretty sure that it is, the inside is much softer than the outer shell, a process designed to prevent the metal from shearing in the event of a surface crack or imperfection. Lastly, the rear end of the striker contains a fair amount of the striker's weight. Reducing that weight, plus dragging against the striker block, would probably be more than enough to prevent enough force to ignite a primer.

I understand your concern, but you're talking about a seriously fringe case of crazy bad failure with many variables and safety nets needing to fail in order for your proposal to happen.”

That made me feel better about failure of that part.

[matto]

So here’s a question and I have to say that I am ignorant of how it works.
The “foot” of the striker on a Hellcat has been a breakage and failure point.


Yes! The hellcat breakages are an example that this can happen. Of course it could be that sig uses better manufacturing processes and theirs would never break (of course) but the concept of redundant safeguards is fundamentally accepted concept in the design and engineering of safety critical systems.

Fortunately the hellcat does not have the same single point of failure design that the sig does. Here's a video describing.

https://youtu.be/PuFVonprghc

[LittleLebowski]

I know some don’t like aftermarket parts but a G43x with an S15 magazine is kind of a perfect carry gun.

Yup. I do the same with the 48.

[JAD]

I sometimes carry a 1911 and a J frame, which are two pretty disparate grip angles, *at the same time.* nonetheless I am reasonably sure that if I have to drop the 1911 because the extractor suddenly lost tension I will probably remember to pull the .38’s trigger with my index finger rather than my thumb.

[BehindBlueI's]

I sometimes carry a 1911 and a J frame, which are two pretty disparate grip angles, *at the same time.* nonetheless I am reasonably sure that if I have to drop the 1911 because the extractor suddenly lost tension I will probably remember to pull the .38’s trigger with my index finger rather than my thumb.

Personal theory: They are also quite different in terms of feel and that makes it easier to subconsciously recognize.

Longer version: I think it's much easier to bounce between a given revolver and a given magazine fed pistol then it is between two revolvers or two pistols. It's the difference between a tennis racket and a baseball bat vs a tennis racket and a slightly heavier tennis racket. Your brain recognizes the big difference and applies "revolver rules" or "pistol rules" subconsciously whereas it's less intuitive when the feel is the same but the angle is just slightly different. Just a theory, though.

[snow white]

Some things can't be unseen.

You are just intimidated by my HD belly hair.
Keep pushing it and next the pants come off.

[Clusterfrack]

Some things can't be unseen.

Ah my eyes!! Is snow white carrying SOB at 6:00?

[Clusterfrack]

Personal theory: They are also quite different in terms of feel and that makes it easier to subconsciously recognize.

Longer version: I think it's much easier to bounce between a given revolver and a given magazine fed pistol then it is between two revolvers or two pistols. It's the difference between a tennis racket and a baseball bat vs a tennis racket and a slightly heavier tennis racket. Your brain recognizes the big difference and applies "revolver rules" or "pistol rules" subconsciously whereas it's less intuitive when the feel is the same but the angle is just slightly different. Just a theory, though.

Or you figure out how to grip your one and only revolver like an auto...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210116/8b5c435bb193f1640caa39bfe04f904c.jpg

[snow white]

Ah my eyes!! Is snow white carrying SOB at 6:00?

Na son thats 1:00 like God intended. I apparently am the only one on this forum who isn't shaved like a naked mole-rat!

[Navin Johnson]

I really want to buy a Glock 43/48 combo (which also gives me a G43x for free!), for various reasons. I could list those reasons, but I suspect it will derail the thread.

My problem is that I can't get past the grip angle. When I grip the gun naturally, it points up into the sky. Of course I can bring it down, but it takes thought, and feels fairly unnatural. I won't say "uncomfortable" as if it hurts my wrists, but it doesn't feel particularly comfortable or natural either.

Is this something I can get used to? If I buy one and shoot it a lot, will it become second nature? Will I be able to switch between it and my other guns without being frustrated? I don't plan to get rid of my CZs and Berettas.

The Glock checks a lot of boxes that I'm looking for in a carry gun. But jesus, why did they have to make the grip so stupid shaped?

Unlike 30 years ago there is plenty of non-Glock options that are reliable and durable so what is your real question? BTW a gun is a tool.....put them on the clock and deal with reality.

[blues]

Na son thats 1:00 like God intended. I apparently am the only one on this forum who isn't shaved like a naked mole-rat!

Be careful what you wish for.

[snow white]

Be careful what you wish for.

All depends on who is doing the shaving baby.

[matto]

You are just intimidated by my HD belly hair.
Keep pushing it and next the pants come off.You sir, win the Internet for today.

[blues]

All depends on who is doing the shaving baby.

You misunderstand me. I'm a man with plenty of body hair as well. Just not that much left on top of my head these days.

[snow white]

You misunderstand me. I'm a man with plenty of body hair as well. Just not that much left on top of my head these days.

Ooohh i got ya haha. you were gettin me all excited there for a minute.

[MattyD380]

If the Glock grip angle feels uncomfortable you... or negatively impacts your ability to shoot it well... choose something else.

There’s a lot of handguns out there. And if one fits you better, why force yourself into something that doesn’t suit you?

Wouldn’t a P10c give you a similar setup to a Glock, with more standard grip angle? Or an M&P? APX?

[GearFondler]

Glocks pointed high for me so I avoided them. Because I was buying into the myth that you should start with a gun that points naturally for you. Which is just not true.
15 minutes a day practicing for a few days and it was dialed in and now 1911's feel off to me.
First time I tried son's P365 it felt like it was pointing at my feet.
I'm dialed in with Glocks now and that's what I stick with. I don't want to play around with switching back and forth.
Oddly enough, my BUG is a 642 and while it is as different from a G19 as a gun could be it points for me exactly like a Glock... no sight adjustment needed. Go figure.

[Rex G]

I really want to buy a Glock 43/48 combo (which also gives me a G43x for free!), for various reasons. I could list those reasons, but I suspect it will derail the thread.

My problem is that I can't get past the grip angle. When I grip the gun naturally, it points up into the sky. Of course I can bring it down, but it takes thought, and feels fairly unnatural. I won't say "uncomfortable" as if it hurts my wrists, but it doesn't feel particularly comfortable or natural either.

Is this something I can get used to? If I buy one and shoot it a lot, will it become second nature? Will I be able to switch between it and my other guns without being frustrated? I don't plan to get rid of my CZs and Berettas.

The Glock checks a lot of boxes that I'm looking for in a carry gun. But jesus, why did they have to make the grip so stupid shaped?

The Glock Gen3, Gen4, and Gen5 point well, in my hands. The Gen4 and Gen5 with no back-strap adapters in place, are a much better fit than the Gen3 and earlier. Pre-Gen3 Glocks tend to point low for me, and feel too strange for me to want to shoot them.

Notably, however, 1911 pistols, P226 and P229 SIGs, the first-generation SIG P220, the 1906 Luger, and Third-Generation S&W auto-pistols all point naturally, too, in my hands, while the current SIG P220 does NOT point well, so there is much more to fit than just the “grip angle.”

Plus, some pistols will fit one of my hands, but not the other.

Fit is complex, and Glocks have sold awefully well, to so very many highly-trained shooters, for Glock grips to be “stupid.”

I doubt that Jesus personally arranged your DNA. ;) Glocks are not for everybody. There is no wrong, in that.

I have one Robar-ized Glock, a Gen3, which fits me very, very well, compared to the way a stock Gen3 would fit, so, obviously, customization is available.

If SIGs and Berettas work well for you, keep using them. I might own no Glocks, had I not switched from the SIG P229, due to the high bore axis, and the then-mandated .40 S&W duty ammo, becoming too much for my aging right thumb, hand, and wrist. As soon as my chief OK’ed 9mm, I switched to a G17, for the lower bore axis, and 9mm, in one move. Had the Beretta 92-/M9-series been on the list of approved duty pistols, I might have gone with Beretta, due to its reputation for being easy on joints in the hands and arms.

Actually, part of developing unconscious competence is concentrating upon one system, or a limited number of systems. I see little wisdom in trying to run three autopistol systems at a high level. Familiarity, for “battlefield pick-up” is reasonable, of course, but that is a different goal than going full-immersion.

[Duelist]

Personal theory: They are also quite different in terms of feel and that makes it easier to subconsciously recognize.

Longer version: I think it's much easier to bounce between a given revolver and a given magazine fed pistol then it is between two revolvers or two pistols. It's the difference between a tennis racket and a baseball bat vs a tennis racket and a slightly heavier tennis racket. Your brain recognizes the big difference and applies "revolver rules" or "pistol rules" subconsciously whereas it's less intuitive when the feel is the same but the angle is just slightly different. Just a theory, though.

:eek:

A tennis racquet metaphor!! Wut?!?!

66239


To expound on it a ridiculous amount: All four of these racquets are essentially the same length, width, and strung with synthetic material. Weights and grip dimensions vary considerably: by grams and millimeters. You wanna talk minutiae? Tennis players talk about the differences of balance point, string diameter (16 or 17 gauge? You decide!), grip diameter and material, differences in synthetic material (synthetic gut or monofilament?), string tension, frame material, etc.

One of them is a $20 “racquet-shaped-object”, while the other three were all pro grade when new, and are still very playable. Put the yellow one with the pink grip in my hand, and I can actually play. The other three? I’ll still play, but I’ll suck (more).

One of my girls got a new racquet for Christmas. The same model she had played with for the last two years, but there is a difference between the 2018 and 2020 models, and she knows it when she’s swinging them. It’s not a big deal, but noticeable.

The differences between my favorite and any of these other racquets is less than the difference between a Glock 26 and 43, but I can play reasonably with one and not as much with the other - because I play with it all the time. If I switched today, in a few weeks, which I play better with would probably change.

I should go play tennis now. :)

OP: if you’ve never shot a couple hundred rounds through any Glock, only handled them in the store, you should go shoot one and see what’s what.

[MattyD380]

AeroPro. Nice.

I’m a Pure Drive man, myself. Though I’m kinda starting to appreciate Yonex.

Yes... I too see all kinds of parallels between finding “the one” when it comes to racquets and guns. And I tend to accumulate a lot of both.

[Hot Sauce]

If the Glock grip angle feels uncomfortable you... or negatively impacts your ability to shoot it well... choose something else.

There’s a lot of handguns out there. And if one fits you better, why force yourself into something that doesn’t suit you?

Wouldn’t a P10c give you a similar setup to a Glock, with more standard grip angle? Or an M&P? APX?He mentioned carrying AIWB and wanting a positive control mechanism to prevent discharge during holstering.

That means APX is out, and so is the P10c until Tom blesses us with a Gadget for it (SoonTM​).

[MattyD380]

He mentioned carrying AIWB and wanting a positive control mechanism to prevent discharge during holstering.

That means APX is out, and so is the P10c until Tom blesses us with a Gadget for it (SoonTM​).

I think you can get a safety for the APX. Not quite the same thing.., but would ultimately serve the same end.

[Hot Sauce]

I think you can get a safety for the APX. Not quite the same thing.., but would ultimately serve the same end.I didn't know that it was an option on the APEX, to be honest. In my mind it's the same thing, it's why I didn't mention the M&P as being a bad suggestion, because a thumb safety that's a perfectly acceptable alternative to a Gadget or Hammer.

[MattyD380]

I didn't know that it was an option on the APEX, to be honest. In my mind it's the same thing, it's why I didn't mention the M&P as being a bad suggestion, because a thumb safety that's a perfectly acceptable alternative to a Gadget or Hammer.

I think it’s only available as an add-on:

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/apx-grip-frame-safety-apx-grip-frame-safety/e02588/

This one says it’s for the full size. I didn’t see any specifically for the compact or Centurion. But I feel they’d be the same internally? I dunno. But I think it’s cool Beretta offers this.

[Whirlwind06]

I think it’s only available as an add-on:

https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/apx-grip-frame-safety-apx-grip-frame-safety/e02588/

This one says it’s for the full size. I didn’t see any specifically for the compact or Centurion. But I feel they’d be the same internally? I dunno. But I think it’s cool Beretta offers this.

I recall reading on the mega APX thread here that the full-size internals is different than the compact/centurion.

To the OP, I decided to focus on one platform about a year ago and realized I was shooting Glocks more than Berettas and what not. After say a month or so, I didn't really notice the Glock grip anymore. I did notice that my grip had changed that activating the grip safety on 1911 wasn't automatic.

[Clusterfrack]

I recall reading on the mega APX thread here that the full-size internals is different than the compact/centurion.

To the OP, I decided to focus on one platform about a year ago and realized I was shooting Glocks more than Berettas and what not. After say a month or so, I didn't really notice the Glock grip anymore. I did notice that my grip had changed that activating the grip safety on 1911 wasn't automatic.

Same here. I don’t have any guns with a grip safety anymore, but over the years the center of my firing hand grip pressure has moved farther up the backstrap, I can’t consistently activate grip safeties without thinking about it.

[claymore504]

Sure it is possible to love the Glock angle. I was all Glock when I first got into handguns years ago when the Gen 3 was the latest. I thought they were perfect, except for the trigger reach, which was too long for me. Then I started trying other handguns a few years later (M&P & FNS mainly) and found I did not care for the Glock grip angle among other things. So, for me I have found that the Glock does not work for me the best and I greatly prefer other handguns.

[Brianjkeene]

so is the P10c until Tom blesses us with a Gadget for it (SoonTM​).

Is a gadget for the P10c in development that we know of?

[Hot Sauce]

Is a gadget for the P10c in development that we know of?Not, that's why the running joke of SoonTM. Tom has mentioned that it looks to be technically feasible, though more challenging than a Glock one, but there are no current plans to produce one right now.


There's a chance for a CZ P-10 SCD, but with a simple Glock-style SCD the angled rear face of the striker/firing pin causes problems (it's like a wheel chock and changes the force vector due to striker movement from straight to the rear to towards the hinge pin which causes the pivoting portion of the SCD to bind and not just freely swing out of the way). I can probably find a way to work around it and may eventually release an SCD for the P-10, but it's not coming anytime soon.

Source (https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/striker-control-device-for-non-glock-pistols.7533/#post-43647)

[RAM Engineer]

Yes. Stop thinking about grip angle being a primary, secondary or even tertiary factor of importance to fast, accurate shooting.

[Greg Bell]

66311

[P.E. Kelley]

I am either the "right or way-wrong" guy to reply. (Box to Match with over 50 "unknown" handguns with 80% wins)

I have no patience for the "I can't shoot X gun".

They all work the same...have the bullet exit hole somewhat inline with
where ya want the bullet to go and make it go bang.

YES!!! We all get used to what we know and we will of course shoot better with that which we know.
But it is just a handgun, dry fire your ass off and all will be well.

Do I get an asshole award for this?

[ER_STL]

Do I get an a$$hole award for this?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71buJcud2WL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[Joe in PNG]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71buJcud2WL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Do you think Alec Baldwin is going to give it up that easily?

[P.E. Kelley]

Do you think Alec Baldwin is going to give it up that easily?

I would be happy to "duel" that low life for the title.

[ER_STL]

If you're going to expand the candidate list beyond PF's cozy little corner of the Internet, well:

66337

That's the best I can do.

Teasing aside, you add a lot of value to the forum.

[JonInWA]

Late to the party (as usual)-here are my thoughts:

1. GJM nailed it; the Glock grip/grip angle is a feature, not a bug. Familiarize, dry-fire, train, shoot with it and the appropriate muscle memories will be developed so that one's index with it becomes natural.

2. While #1 above applies, I think it's also worthwhile to consider that there are Glocks and then there are Glocks-by this I'm discussing the differences in Glock frame sizes, and how they can affect your index and use. For example, the Glocks I personally index best with, and have the best ease-of-use with are my standard full-size 9mm Glocks (in my case, a Gen 3 G17) and compact Glock (for me, a Gen 3 G19). The most difficult for me is my Gen 3 G21 (big-butt, not the SF abbreviated butt). Intrinsically, my G21 is the most accurate Glock that I have, but as I've discussed elsewhere on the forum, it's the Glock platform for me that requires the most intensive and continuous dry-fire, practice and actual use to do well with on demand. Conversely, I simply do not like or feel comfortable with the Slim-Line single stack Glocks, but I could probably adapt to them easily.

Additionally, the differences in recoil force impact in different caliber Glocks may have an effect on you as an individual shooter with your ability to naturally and effectively use a Glock (or other platforms). For my quicker pressure spiking/greater recoil force imparting cartridges that I have Glocks chambered in (in my specific case, .45 ACP [G21}, .40/.357 SIG {G22, both with the OEM .40 barrel and interchangable Glock .357 SIG barrel}, I'm currently experimenting with using a Warren Grip Assist sleeve on my G21 and G22, and am using the Glock Medium Beavertail on my Gen4 G22 (I've found that while I shoot the G22 more "naturally" without any aditional backstrap, the Medium Beavertail application provides me with better recoil control for follow-up shots). The Warren Grip Assist sleeve may simultaneously assist with both recoil management and support hand placement with the platforms discussed- it's validity and effectiveness is an assement in progress, but Scott Warren generally knows what he's talking about, so I think it's worth a shot, particularly with the cartridges and platforms that I'm concerned with (I do not see any need for it with any of my 9mm platforms).

https://warrentactical.com/product-category/grip-assist-sleeve/

https://youtu.be/CcrjtA9HSi4

3. One platform transition difficulty that I've personally experienced that I think is worthy of consideration is if/when you transition from a Glock (particularly a double-stack magazine Glock) to a 1911 or similar (and "by similar" I'm specifically referring to a single-stack pistol with a grip safety that needs to be depressed before the weapon can fire). After an extensive period of double-stack pistol use, in one match where I decided to use a 1911, my grip muscle memory applied my "double-stack" index to the gun when I drew it and attempted to fire; I was not sufficiently grasping and disengaging the grip safety....(I quickly ascertained the problem, adjusted my grip, and proceeded onward succesfully, and the problem did not reoccur during the match, but still...that kind of stuff can getcha Kilt in the Streetz.....

Accordingly, I try to stick with one platform at a time in my use venues. It makes life simpler.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

I was just playing with a G5 19 MOS with a SRO, and a M&P 2.0 Compact with a SRO, doing support hand presentations. I didn’t notice any difference between the two in finding the dot. I suspect there is a difference in the grip angle of the two pistols, but it did not show up doing what is generally considered hard with a dot gun. As the Kelley guys says, do what you need to do to align the sights or dot.

PS: I did notice differences in the two triggers, but again you just need to press them so the dot stays where you need it to.

[OlongJohnson]

Also...

If you don't like that the P365 doesn't have a trigger dongle and you don't like manual safeties...

There's this option (out of stock currently).

https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/vuurwapen-hmc9-80-hybrid-micro-compact-frame/

It uses a G43/48 upper and trigger group, but has P365 grip angle and uses Sig magazines.

They started taking pre-orders for serialized (not 80%) stripped and complete lowers yesterday.

[O4L]

They started taking pre-orders for serialized (not 80%) stripped and complete lowers yesterday.https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/vuurwapen-hmc9-stripped-frame-serialized/

[pew_pew]

Grip angle doesn’t matter. It’s so overblown by people that don’t know how to shoot or grip a gun.

Grip is all in the support hand. The support hand has to be canted forward regardless of what pistol you are shooting for maximum control. A Glock grip gets you closer to this but doesn’t matter what you are shooting you are going to end up with the same support hand position.

[Duelist]

I am either the "right or way-wrong" guy to reply. (Box to Match with over 50 "unknown" handguns with 80% wins)

I have no patience for the "I can't shoot X gun".

They all work the same...have the bullet exit hole somewhat inline with
where ya want the bullet to go and make it go bang.

YES!!! We all get used to what we know and we will of course shoot better with that which we know.
But it is just a handgun, dry fire your ass off and all will be well.

Do I get an asshole award for this?

“A pistol is a pistol, mate. Just line the sights up and pull the trigger.” - an Australian SF member to young me on a joint forces deployment one night when we were talking guns. He had a really old P35 and an AUG, I had an M9 and an M16A2.

[GJM]

I was just playing with a G5 19 MOS with a SRO, and a M&P 2.0 Compact with a SRO, doing support hand presentations. I didn’t notice any difference between the two in finding the dot. I suspect there is a difference in the grip angle of the two pistols, but it did not show up doing what is generally considered hard with a dot gun. As the Kelley guys says, do what you need to do to align the sights or dot.

PS: I did notice differences in the two triggers, but again you just need to press them so the dot stays where you need it to.

Fast forward a few years. I have been competing with a 320 based pistol, and carrying a Macro. When I grab an unmodified Glock, it definitely points high for me now. However, if I hook my support index finger on the trigger guard, it points naturally for me.

[Hemiram]

Personally, I don't think it's possible to learn to love a grip or grip angle that doesn't feel good or right to you the second you pick it up the first time. Sure, you can learn to shoot it fine, but I think having the "right" grip is always a slight advantage. I personally dislike the Glock grip a lot, and I can't say too much good about a 1911 either. My favorites are the "original" Beretta 92FS grip, not the Vertex, and the CZ75 and clones in centerfire guns, and the best of them all is the Taurus TX22 Compact, which is fantastic. I like my GX4 TORO too, but the TX22 is just perfect.

[4mykaren]

IMO point naturally is one of the most important thing for pistol shooting, no matter uspsa/tactical/self defense use. I carry a G26 since 2008, and still carry it. but right now I prefer other striker guns like CZ M&P, SAR9 gen 2/3, Canik Mete and P320s etc. you can cut and modify Gen4/5 glock back straps to change the grip angel slightly, but I will not spend any money/ time on a new glock.

[Bucky]

I’ve haven’t given much consideration to grip angle of late. Except, now that we are plopping dots on top of these things, I noticed a little more adjustment time picking up the Glock.

[Jim Watson]

I don't like the native Glock grip angle, either; but a friend handed me his GSSF Unlimited gun. With compensator and frame weight, the front end is held down a bit and it comes up to aim quite naturally for my 1911 habits.

[G19Fan]

Personally, I don't think it's possible to learn to love a grip or grip angle that doesn't feel good or right to you the second you pick it up the first time. Sure, you can learn to shoot it fine, but I think having the "right" grip is always a slight advantage. I personally dislike the Glock grip a lot, and I can't say too much good about a 1911 either. My favorites are the "original" Beretta 92FS grip, not the Vertex, and the CZ75 and clones in centerfire guns, and the best of them all is the Taurus TX22 Compact, which is fantastic. I like my GX4 TORO too, but the TX22 is just perfect.

Love the GX4 Toro grip

With someone would come out with a p365 xl grip.that.mimics this

[Trajan]

Isn't the 1911 with arched main spring housing the same grip angle as a Glock?

[HeavyDuty]

I’ve never liked the Glock grip angle, but in the last few years it’s gotten downright painful - I’ve suspected it was due to early stage arthritis, but we are now checking out whether it might be carpal tunnel. I’d like to investigate grip reshaping because even though I carry HK these days I really do like the simplicity of Glocks.

[RevolverRob]

I’ve never liked the Glock grip angle, but in the last few years it’s gotten downright painful - I’ve suspected it was due to early stage arthritis, but we are now checking out whether it might be carpal tunnel. I’d like to investigate grip reshaping because even though I carry HK these days I really do like the simplicity of Glocks.

Large frame Glocks (G20/21) are the only guns I've ever picked up and instantly had to put back down due to grip shape causing a bad carpal tunnel flare up. So for me, the large frame Glocks absolutely cause massive pain related to diagnosed carpal tunnel syndrome.

Small frame Glocks (normal frame?) cause pain eventually while shooting. The G19 is usually within a box of ammo, the G17 after a couple of hundred rounds.

Contrast 1911s, HKs, M&Ps, revolvers do not cause pain unless I shoot a ton (>250 rounds) of ammo. Lone exception is if I shoot 100 rounds through an Airweight J-Frame, that I feel.

[HCM]

Isn't the 1911 with arched main spring housing the same grip angle as a Glock?

No.

One is a 22 degree angle and one is a 17 or 18 degree angle.

[HCM]

There is nothing natural about gripping a pistol and pointing at things with it.

There is nothing wrong with the Glock grip angle or a conventional grip angle.

One is not better or worse than the other there is just what you are trained and acclimated to.

Glock is one of those platforms that is easy to shoot at a low to medium level and slightly more challenging to shoot at a high-level. If you want to shoot Glocks well I.e. at high-level, you need to stick with shooting Glocks.

If you try to flit around between Glocks and other pistols with a different grip angle, one of those is going to be your default setting.

If you began shooting with something other than Glocks or you’ve been away from Glocks for a while and they “point high” that is a software issue not a hardware issue. A bit of dry practice presenting the pistol and the issue goes away. There’s trained and there’s untrained anything else is b******t.

[ECVMatt]

Being mostly a Glock shooter for the last 35 years or so, I have learned to love the Glock grip angle.

For me, learning to love anything else is the problem.

[GJM]

There is a pretty wide spectrum of grip angles. For me, the Glock is on one end, the high end. A Sig is in the opposite end, the low end. Many pistols are in between. When I have primarily been shooting a Glock, when I first grab a Sig and can't find the dot, the quickest way to find it is to look at my feet!

It may be just a work around, but I am amazed how hooking my support hand index finger on the trigger guard, like Grauffel, instantly levels the Glock for me.

[HeavyDuty]

Large frame Glocks (G20/21) are the only guns I've ever picked up and instantly had to put back down due to grip shape causing a bad carpal tunnel flare up. So for me, the large frame Glocks absolutely cause massive pain related to diagnosed carpal tunnel syndrome.

Small frame Glocks (normal frame?) cause pain eventually while shooting. The G19 is usually within a box of ammo, the G17 after a couple of hundred rounds.

Contrast 1911s, HKs, M&Ps, revolvers do not cause pain unless I shoot a ton (>250 rounds) of ammo. Lone exception is if I shoot 100 rounds through an Airweight J-Frame, that I feel.

I notice a difference between the frame sizes, too - the 19 is much worse for me than a 17/45 with a 26 falling somewhere in between.

[HeavyDuty]

It may be just a work around, but I am amazed how hooking my support hand index finger on the trigger guard, like Grauffel, instantly levels the Glock for me.

I played around with finger hooking my 26 a few months back after reading something Mas wrote. Rocking it like it was 1990 actually worked pretty decently for me, I should work more with it.

[Bucky]

I played around with finger hooking my 26 a few months back after reading something Mas wrote. Rocking it like it was 1990 actually worked pretty decently for me, I should work more with it.

Ironically, I was using that grip in the 1990s. Just about everyone went away from it. I remember doing quite well with it, but the instructors I trained with, at the time, said no go. One would even smack your finger if you saw you doing it. Different times, different times.

[Bucky]

There is a pretty wide spectrum of grip angles. For me, the Glock is on one end, the high end. A Sig is in the opposite end, the low end. Many pistols are in between. When I have primarily been shooting a Glock, when I first grab a Sig and can't find the dot, the quickest way to find it is to look at my feet!

It may be just a work around, but I am amazed how hooking my support hand index finger on the trigger guard, like Grauffel, instantly levels the Glock for me.

I picture the opposite end being a 1911 with a straight main spring housing or a Beretta Vertec. Sig still has a tiny bit of arch from what I can remember.

[JAH 3rd]

My first Glock was a 21, then two more 21s, for a total of 3 over the years. The first one was without the finger grooves, the second was the 21 that had issues with the ambi mag release. Finally dialed it in with the 21SF. My point is that my first 3 Glocks were the big boys. About 2 years ago, I bought a model 17, Gen 5. Wow, just wow. It wasn't the grip angle for me, it was the size of the grip on the 21s. The 17 grip was smaller in size and there was a night and day difference the way the pistol (17) felt in the hand. No 2X4 here. After all those 21s, a Glock 17 was my eureka moment.

[Basher]

Yeah, humans are adaptable so most of us can learn to adapt to anything. I did, having tried Glocks back in the early 2000's and disliking them, then eventually making them my every day carry for quite some time. But I've since started to drift away from them? Why? Well, techniques change and I've learned better ways to shoot. When I was deep into Glocks, it was back when the "tactical turtle" was a thing, where people drove the gun hard by rolling our shoulders forward and dropping our head down. That method of shooting still "works," but it's a bit outdated as we've learned that bringing the pistol up to your eyes is a better way of doing things for a variety of reasons.

The result? The Glock grip angle is now a bit too harsh for my aging wrists. Before with the "tactical turtle," I brought my head down to meet the sights, which meant my arms went straight out from my shoulders. The grip angle of a Glock is quite natural in that stance for me. Maybe a tad aggressive, but that helped with recoil control a little bit. Now, with the current method of bringing the gun up to meet your eyes, I find that I have to bend my wrists too much to align the sights and it gives my wrists fits especially when gripping properly to control recoil.

So I've kind of returned to my Beretta roots and I mostly shoot 92s and PX4s now, as their slightly more vertical grip angle relieves a lot of that excess bending and I find I can shoot for longer and have better grip because of it. Honorary mention to the S&W M&P that I've recently gotten in to as it's somewhere in between and is still quite enjoyable to shoot (for a striker lol).

All that being said, put a Glock in my hands and I can still shoot them fine, but my wrists'll be pissed after a comp/class/long day of shooting. So I can adapt much like anyone else can, but if I don't HAVE to, I'll choose something that fits me better. Sometimes tastes/needs change, and that's OK. :)

[Clusterfrack]

I can adapt to different grip angles, but I have a preference for CZ to Glock angles. In my hands, more vertical grip angles don't just change the pitch angle, they change the effective height of the gun. Vertical grip angles force me to bend my elbows more (and my wrists less) to align the gun with my eye. I don't like that.

[GJM]

I can adapt to different grip angles, but I have a preference for CZ to Glock angles. In my hands, more vertical grip angles don't just change the pitch angle, they change the effective height of the gun. Vertical grip angles force me to bend my elbows more (and my wrists less) to align the gun with my eye. I don't like that.

Messing with a Shadow 2 a month or two ago, I was surprised how the CZ felt closer to a Glock grip angle than I remembered.

[Gio]

I've switched my USPSA gun to a Tanfo Stock Master this year, and I find it points extremely close to a Glock, to the point I can go back and forth between the two with no issues.

[GJM]

I've switched my USPSA gun to a Tanfo Stock Master this year, and I find it points extremely close to a Glock, to the point I can go back and forth between the two with no issues.

Production and CO or just Production?

What are your thoughts after switching?

[rawkguitarist]

I still believe the Glock is the ultimate overall pistol system. What do I know though? they’re all I’ve shot for 25 years.

A CZ Shadow 2 Compact and a Staccato C2 will eventually be in my stable… but I’m in no hurry for them. I’ll always carry Glocks though.

[Gio]

Production and CO or just Production?

What are your thoughts after switching?

Production for now. I'm all in on production for the next couple years trying to earn a world shoot slot.

For IPSC rules, which prevent me from doing almost any of the mods I make for my USPSA production Glocks, including being unable to swap out recoil springs, I think the Tanfo is a slightly better gun to play the game with. Comparing the Tanfo to my USPSA production Glocks with a brass grip plug, tungsten guide rod, reduced recoil spring, I think there is no difference. The Tanfo may be slightly more forgiving on a tougher shots, but the Glock is much easier to reload quickly without hanging up the reload and is faster for me on close hoser stages.

[Spectre3]

My first handgun was an early gen 4 G17 that I bought on my birthday. My first duty gun was a G22. I shot Glocks almost exclusively (aside from when they didn't have a gun at that time that met a need i.e small slim 9mms) for the first 10 years of my handgun carrying life.

Fast forward to 2019 and I moved states to an agency that issues the M&P 2.0. I shot it fine, but I preferred the Glock simply because even though the m&p had less felt recoil, I could manage that recoil better with the Glock and time between shots was lower. Not an astronomical difference, but enough that I could tell even without a timer.

Then I injured my wrist in a fight during a felony warrant service. Since then, Glocks have been uncomfortable to downright painful to shoot.

So now, even though I'm out of LE and can carry whatever I want, I've switched entirely to the m&p due to aforementioned wrist pain with Glocks. I'll probably need surgery when whatever my wrist issue is deteriorates further. But for now, "I can't shoot the handgun I want" isn't a good enough reason for a doctor to sign off on treatment/surgery and for insurance to pay for it.

I will say that before the injury I had no problem switching back and forth with 5 minutes of dry-fire practice.

[NETim]

So now, even though I'm out of LE and can carry whatever I want, I've switched entirely to the m&p due to aforementioned wrist pain with Glocks. I'll probably need surgery when whatever my wrist issue is deteriorates further. But for now, "I can't shoot the handgun I want" isn't a good enough reason for a doctor to sign off on treatment/surgery and for insurance to pay for it.

Not quite the same thing, but I went round and round with my ophthalmologist for coupla-three years about my cataracts. He knew I had them. I told him repeatedly at each office visit, "I can't see! I can't see!" My wife suggested to tell him that it was impacting the quality of my life.

BOOM!

Two weeks later, I was getting cataract surgery.

He's not a Doc to push surgery and is very conservative about such matters, which I like. But those were the magic words.

PS For anyone reading this, if the time comes to get those cataracts taken care of, do so! Best thing I've ever done for my eyesight and the surgery is a comparative cakewalk.

[HCM]

I notice a difference between the frame sizes, too - the 19 is much worse for me than a 17/45 with a 26 falling somewhere in between.

The hump on the back of the G19 is more pronounced and sits higher up on the backstrap than the G17 or 26.

[UNM1136]

Fast forward a few years. I have been competing with a 320 based pistol, and carrying a Macro. When I grab an unmodified Glock, it definitely points high for me now. However, if I hook my support index finger on the trigger guard, it points naturally for me.


There is a pretty wide spectrum of grip angles. For me, the Glock is on one end, the high end. A Sig is in the opposite end, the low end. Many pistols are in between. When I have primarily been shooting a Glock, when I first grab a Sig and can't find the dot, the quickest way to find it is to look at my feet!

It may be just a work around, but I am amazed how hooking my support hand index finger on the trigger guard, like Grauffel, instantly levels the Glock for me.

And this, folks, is why we are here. GJM is a fantastic shooter who doesn't specialize, and is open minded.

pat

[stomridertx]

I have a really non-scientific theory I've held a long time regarding the Glock grip angle.
It felt natural to me from the beginning, and Glocks have always pointed well to me. Other people I shoot with, not so much. If I ask people in person who say they hate the Glock grip angle to demonstrate a punch, their wrist is locked at an angle similar to the 1911. If you ask me to demonstrate a punch, I line up my front two knuckles in line with the bone structure in my arm from many years of Shotokan karate training. My punch looks like the Glock grip angle. I'm obviously in the vast minority, but it is an interesting observation.

[Duelist]

I have a really non-scientific theory I've held a long time regarding the Glock grip angle.
It felt natural to me from the beginning, and Glocks have always pointed well to me. Other people I shoot with, not so much. If I ask people in person who say they hate the Glock grip angle to demonstrate a punch, their wrist is locked at an angle similar to the 1911. If you ask me to demonstrate a punch, I line up my front two knuckles in line with the bone structure in my arm from many years of Shotokan karate training. My punch looks like the Glock grip angle. I'm obviously in the vast minority, but it is an interesting observation.

“This inch!”

[BillSWPA]

I have a really non-scientific theory I've held a long time regarding the Glock grip angle.
It felt natural to me from the beginning, and Glocks have always pointed well to me. Other people I shoot with, not so much. If I ask people in person who say they hate the Glock grip angle to demonstrate a punch, their wrist is locked at an angle similar to the 1911. If you ask me to demonstrate a punch, I line up my front two knuckles in line with the bone structure in my arm from many years of Shotokan karate training. My punch looks like the Glock grip angle. I'm obviously in the vast minority, but it is an interesting observation.

I can confirm that the Glock grip angle is close to the wrist angle of an Isshinryu punch, also hitting with the index and middle finger knuckles. This is one reason why I like the Glock grip angle, do okay with a 1911 grip angle, and dislike the Sig grip angle.

[Clusterfrack]

Interesting about the Karate. My punches are with a straight wrist, just like doing fist pushups. But I still like the Glock grip angle better than Sig/1911/Beretta.

[BillSWPA]

Interesting about the Karate. My punches are with a straight wrist, just like doing fist pushups. But I still like the Glock grip angle better than Sig/1911/Beretta.

You are probably doing the same thing we are. The index and middle finger knuckles square with the target are part of how we define a straight wrist, of course with no inward or outward deviation.

[Wondering Beard]

Interesting about the Karate. My punches are with a straight wrist, just like doing fist pushups. But I still like the Glock grip angle better than Sig/1911/Beretta.

One's natural morphology (I think that's the appropriate term here) can make one angle better than an another.

In my case, time and arthritis have favored the Glock grip angle (and a more angled wrist for a straight punch) when previously a 1911 angle worked best.

[spence]

This is one of those things I’ve diddled with over the last few years. I never much cared for the Glock angle, but when I started running handguns fairly seriously about five years ago, I started paying more attention. From the avenue of pure, slow fire accuracy, all the major pistols, at least in my stable, shoot about the same. From my daily 92, to G17, M&P, VP9, P320, or PX4. However, what I have noticed is that it requires me to slightly adjust how I grip each pistol. I don’t grip a 92 how many instructors teach, that’s just not how the gun fits me. Glock is another story.

And I’ll probably shoot any credibility I could have when I say that I’ve really only ever run th first Glock I ever bought, a Gen 3 22, which has been converted to 9mm for several years. The smaller pistols like the 43x are just another bag of cats.

[jeep45238]

I think it's possible to be indifferent to it.