Ruger LCP 380 vs Beretta 92A1?

[Rmiked]

I spent New Years with my 87 year old mother. Her home has been robbed several times, fortunately never when she was home. Her brother (my Uncle) talked her into getting a pistol, Ruger 380 LCP which appears to be DAO. She keeps it on her nightstand, not a carry gun. She has trained with my Uncle with the pistol and can operate it safely but complains about the trigger pull; it’s so hard she can’t keep it on target good. I operated the Ruger and I am not slamming the pistol but compared to my Beretta it was awful. I had by 92A1 in my truck and brought it in to show her. I have a WC 14# trigger spring ,WC 14# recoil spring with fluted steel guide rod, and WC CS trigger return spring. In addition I installed an Elite II hammer and steel trigger in my 92A1. My mother could not believe how smooth my DA trigger is and the SA was in her words “unbelievable”. I am not very familiar with how striker fired pistols work as I prefer an exposed hammer with DA first shot as a personal preference for safety reasons. Again, I am ignorant to striker fired action operations but I have read about Glock’s system and it seems impressive. Is it generally agreed upon that a DA/SA action has a superior trigger , especially in SA mode? I realize this Ruger LCP is probably designed to be hard to pull for safety reasons to avoid accidental discharge? My mom wants to sell her LCP and get a Beretta just like mine. I imagine if I put the Langdon Tactical “trigger job” in my trigger would be even much better. Is it possible to get a striker fired trigger to rival the (modified from stock) Beretta 92 in SA? Or a DAO pistol that rivals the Beretta 92 in DA?

[JRV]

I spent New Years with my 87 year old mother. Her home has been robbed several times, fortunately never when she was home. Her brother (my Uncle) talked her into getting a pistol, Ruger 380 LCP which appears to be DAO. She keeps it on her nightstand, not a carry gun. She has trained with my Uncle with the pistol and can operate it safely but complains about the trigger pull; it’s so hard she can’t keep it on target good. I operated the Ruger and I am not slamming the pistol but compared to my Beretta it was awful. I had by 92A1 in my truck and brought it in to show her. I have a WC 14# trigger spring ,WC 14# recoil spring with fluted steel guide rod, and WC CS trigger return spring. In addition I installed an Elite II hammer and steel trigger in my 92A1. My mother could not believe how smooth my DA trigger is and the SA was in her words “unbelievable”. I am not very familiar with how striker fired pistols work as I prefer an exposed hammer with DA first shot as a personal preference for safety reasons. Again, I am ignorant to striker fired action operations but I have read about Glock’s system and it seems impressive. Is it generally agreed upon that a DA/SA action has a superior trigger , especially in SA mode? I realize this Ruger LCP is probably designed to be hard to pull for safety reasons to avoid accidental discharge? My mom wants to sell her LCP and get a Beretta just like mine. I imagine if I put the Langdon Tactical “trigger job” in my trigger would be even much better. Is it possible to get a striker fired trigger to rival the (modified from stock) Beretta 92 in SA? Or a DAO pistol that rivals the Beretta 92 in DA?

If her hand size works with the Beretta, the 92D is the DAO model. I think they recently made a run of the 92X in a D model.

[JAH 3rd]

You have two pistols here designed for two different "missions". I have both. For me, the Ruger's small grip area hinders me getting it into action quickly when carried. The Beretta has the availability of aftermarket parts to make it what you want it to be. As far as striker pistols go, I have read that some people compare it to a revolver or pistol with its hammer cocked, thus being able to fire with little effort.

If this firearm is going to be for "home use only", then you don't need to worry about on person concealment issues. I would let her pick her own firearm hopefully after firing it before purchase. Her opinion of your Beretta gives you insight as to what she likes......and don't like (lcp). Personal opinion, if a striker-fired pistol is purchased, I'd get one with a manual safety. A revolver would give the option of pulling the hammer back to make shooting easier if dexterity is an issue.

You will probably get suggestions as to what firearm to purchase. Most of these suggestions will be from people who actually use that firearm they suggest. Hope you find a firearm that meets your specified needs. If a gun shop is locally available go there and see what they have. If a friend has a firearm that you think she would like, let her shoot it if possible and go from there.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Always good info on choosing firearms here: https://www.corneredcat.com/contents/

The user should try them if possible. Vicki Farnam give us a great lecture on males choosing guns for women. Not to positive to the males.

[jd950]

Not knowing your mother it is impossible to make a valid personalized recommendation but for many non-shooters and particularly older and female persons, I find a locked breech .380 with a thumb safety to be a decent choice. For some, a bump up to 9mm is fine especially if ammo is chosen wisely to minimize recoil.

The old Colt .380 government was a good choice but they are now scarce and collector-priced. Currently, I think a Shield .380 EZ with thumb safety might be a good choice, even though not locked breech gun. I would struggle to recommend a striker-fired gun without a manual safety to a non-gun person looking for a bedside gun, despite that being the standard gun shop sales clerk recommendation. No matter what people say or plan, they are at substantial risk to forget some safety rules (like finger off trigger) and to do something like grab for a falling gun, place other things near the gun that might be grabbed in the dark, like eyeglasses, stick the gun in a briefcase, purse or suitcase, shove it in a drawer, etc. Even a cat jumping onto or off the bedside table could be a problem. Many older folks tend to have balance and stability issues to varying degrees, and if you pair that with a finger on the trigger, there is substantial risk that can be mitigated some by a manual safety or heavier/longer trigger.

If the trigger were manageable, a double action revolver with a 3" or longer barrel seems a good choice in these situations, but some older and/or very petite folks really struggle with a double action trigger and will resort to trying to cock and decock the gun manually.

Some more exotic choices could include a compact USP or P2000 LEM or a P239 DAK, all in 9mm. Trigger pull will be more-or-less midway between a DA trigger and a striker-fired gun. I think a Beretta 92 or similar would just be too big and too heavy under these circumstances. But again, I don't know your mother...

Hope this provides some help and best of luck with your mom.

[Duelist]

Take her out to shoot your Beretta. If it were my mom and she liked it, she’d be going home with it. But that’s just me. A 92D might make a lot of sense here, too.

Other options in .380 include the S&W EZ. I have no personal experience with them beyond finger banging at the store, but they are tailor made for this kind of mission.

I mostly carry Glocks for a variety of reasons, but I also like a variety of other guns. If I decide I don’t like Glock tomorrow, I won’t have to go to the store to have a different gun to use. For your mom, that’s obviously going to be a different situation, so maybe try a gun range that has rental guns so she can try more out and figure out what she wants.

[Lex Luthier]

Subscribed.
I've recently gone through some evaluation processes with my 78 year old mom who has severe arthritis issues. We were looking at the S & W Shield EZ in both .380 and 9mm. These are internal hammer-fired single actions with a grip safety, and are available in versions with and without manual safety levers. They are designed to be easy to rack the slide with diminished hand strength.
I found them quite pleasant to shoot (these were well-broken in range rentals), as accurate *in my hands* as any other good modern pistol, and would consider one for myself.

Our own Tamara wrote a review for Shooting Illustrated that describes them in clear detail.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2020/12/4/review-smith-wesson-mp9-shield-ez

(in mom's case, anything above .22 has a painful recoil impulse for her; I assume your mom isn't a little bird like mine. ;) )

Another option that comes to mind is the Beretta PX-4; adding Ernest Langdon's Trigger Job In A Box is supposed to make a very good gun into a really good one.


Glenn's point about letting her do the heavy lifting on selection is spot on. She might surprise you both with what ends up working best for her.

[olstyn]

Is it possible to get a striker fired trigger to rival the (modified from stock) Beretta 92 in SA?

There are several striker-fired options which could be argued to rival it without modification, but they're pretty much all SAO in reality - SIG P320, Walther PPQ, HK VP9. Based on being essentially SAO with no manual safety, they may not be the best choices, especially for someone with minimal (no?) training. I'll echo the idea of helping your mom out with handling some options so she can get a feel for them and then renting a few to try actually shooting.

[Clusterfrack]

Rmiked: How smooth the trigger is? IMO this is irrelevant for practical shooting.

Also, a TDA with a light SA pull is a poor choice for a novice shooter.

On the other hand, mouseguns are very difficult to shoot well.

I recommend:

1. Training from a reputable instructor
2. Full or compact auto with DAO or striker action. No safety or decocker. Or a revolver if it fits her hands and she can deal with the recoil.
3. Weapon mounted laser/light with auto-activation.

Or a big can of OC spray.

[Rmiked]

I appreciate all the feedback. Our plans are for her to shoot my Beretta at my farm soon. She wants to compare recoil between the Ruger 380 LCP and 92A1. If that is favorable she wants a Beretta. She already likes my DA trigger pull (dry fire on snap cap) better than the LCP. She already has a laser light with auto activation. It will fit on the 92A1 with rail as a feature. I am OK with the Beretta loaded with safety-decocker off since it behaves essentially as a DA revolver would on first shot. She experienced the reset and subsequent SA shot on my 92A1 and loved it. She keeps her Ruger loaded (round in chamber) safety on, on night-stand. But she admits having to remember to remove safety bothers her. That could be remedied by putting it “off-safe”. So if she likes Beretta shooting experience , she will probably switch to it. I could imagine a training piece to decock pistol should she ever need to shoot it at a person. Where-as with a revolver that would be unnecessary since you would not have the pistol cocked after a shot. I agree that is a nice operational feature. But for a night-stand situation a loaded and not cocked 92 with an auto light is not a bad initial condition for someone that is not very experienced. I have not shot the LCP 380 so would be interested in what the recoil experience will be like by comparison to 92A1? My mother really likes the idea of being able to look at the Beretta and tell if it’s cocked by the hammer position. Her father had an SW revolver as a nightstand gun and she is more familiar with the exposed hammer configuration. Thank you all.

[homeyclaus]

I appreciate all the feedback. Our plans are for her to shoot my Beretta at my farm soon. She wants to compare recoil between the Ruger 380 LCP and 92A1. If that is favorable she wants a Beretta. She already likes my DA trigger pull (dry fire on snap cap) better than the LCP. She already has a laser light with auto activation. It will fit on the 92A1 with rail as a feature. I am OK with the Beretta loaded with safety-decocker off since it behaves essentially as a DA revolver would on first shot. She experienced the reset and subsequent SA shot on my 92A1 and loved it. She keeps her Ruger loaded (round in chamber) safety on, on night-stand. But she admits having to remember to remove safety bothers her. That could be remedied by putting it “off-safe”. So if she likes Beretta shooting experience , she will probably switch to it. I could imagine a training piece to decock pistol should she ever need to shoot it at a person. Where-as with a revolver that would be unnecessary since you would not have the pistol cocked after a shot. I agree that is a nice operational feature. But for a night-stand situation a loaded and not cocked 92 with an auto light is not a bad initial condition for someone that is not very experienced. I have not shot the LCP 380 so would be interested in what the recoil experience will be like by comparison to 92A1? My mother really likes the idea of being able to look at the Beretta and tell if it’s cocked by the hammer position. Her father had an SW revolver as a nightstand gun and she is more familiar with the exposed hammer configuration. Thank you all.

A full size 92 is a smooth shooter, and 380, especially in a mouse gun, is snappier. Add to it sights and general challenge of operating something small, a full size 9 is likely going to be something more comfortable to shoot, more accurate (because of the aforementioned sight compromises), and likely somewhat more reliable. Caliber is likely more effective, and magazine capacity is higher.

As far as the issue with hammers and decocking - the safety on the 92 will decock. The end.

Safety ... most DA/SA pistols are safe to carry with the hammer down, safety off, with the safety being the longer DA trigger pull. But you also want the gun to be kept safe from people, so leaving it on or in the nightstand like that isn't what any instructor would encourage. Get a bedside, rapid open "safe" or a lockbox.

[peterb]

A full size 92 is a smooth shooter, and 380, especially in a mouse gun, is snappier. Add to it sights and general challenge of operating something small, a full size 9 is likely going to be something more comfortable to shoot, more accurate (because of the aforementioned sight compromises), and likely somewhat more reliable. Caliber is likely more effective, and magazine capacity is higher.

Does the grip size & reach to the controls work for her? The 92 doesn't always work for smaller hands. The Beretta folks here can help with grip options if that's a concern.

[Rmiked]

Yes, she always grips and shoots with both hands on a pistol and felt good with mine practicing dry fire. When manipulating my 92 in double action mode (snap cap), she was impressed with smoothness of action and less trigger effort compared to the stock LCP (DAO). I do expect the recoil to be manageable for her. And I agree a loaded 92 , hammer down and safety/decocker OFF is adequately safe. There is no one else living with her so keeping the pistol on nightstand at night seems safe enough. When she gets up she puts hers inside nightstand. I asked her why? She said in case someone breaks in when she is not there she doesn’t want to get shot with her own pistol a she does not carry it. She is 87 but tough. My dad passed away 9 years ago so she lives alone. Her father was a good example growing up in the country, butchering hogs and cows and fishing and hunting. I had to finally take her chainsaw from her 5 years ago! She has a 3 acre yard and loves doing yard work, cutting grass on riding mower. I would hate to meet up with her if I broke into her house and she had advanced notice. She would shoot someone before letting them hurt her. The fact that she is complaining about the LCP tells you something. I am seeing a 92 in her future as long as she can handle the recoil of 9mm vs 380.

[JSGlock34]

If her hand size works with the Beretta, the 92D is the DAO model. I think they recently made a run of the 92X in a D model.

Here is the dedicated thread on the 92D/92X variant: Beretta 92D w/ 92X Grip (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44855-Beretta-92D-w-92X-Grip)

Looks like a very nice DAO pistol right out of the box - I like the Ameriglo ProGlo front sight and Wilson Combat rear combination. Palmetto State Armory (https://palmettostatearmory.com/beretta-92d-9mm-pistol-with-rail-and-92x-grip-frame-black-spec0668a.html) has them in stock.

[Rmiked]

Thanks! I am going to the gym and will read while doing treadmill.

[Duelist]

Yes, she always grips and shoots with both hands on a pistol and felt good with mine practicing dry fire. When manipulating my 92 in double action mode (snap cap), she was impressed with smoothness of action and less trigger effort compared to the stock LCP (DAO). I do expect the recoil to be manageable for her. And I agree a loaded 92 , hammer down and safety/decocker OFF is adequately safe. There is no one else living with her so keeping the pistol on nightstand at night seems safe enough. When she gets up she puts hers inside nightstand. I asked her why? She said in case someone breaks in when she is not there she doesn’t want to get shot with her own pistol a she does not carry it. She is 87 but tough. My dad passed away 9 years ago so she lives alone. Her father was a good example growing up in the country, butchering hogs and cows and fishing and hunting. I had to finally take her chainsaw from her 5 years ago! She has a 3 acre yard and loves doing yard work, cutting grass on riding mower. I would hate to meet up with her if I broke into her house and she had advanced notice. She would shoot someone before letting them hurt her. The fact that she is complaining about the LCP tells you something. I am seeing a 92 in her future as long as she can handle the recoil of 9mm vs 380.

This is exactly why the safe. Thieves know to look in drawers for valuables.