Leupold Delta Point Micro (DPM)

[HCM]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2020/12/30/review-leupold-deltapoint-micro?fbclid=IwAR0UZMYXN2bHn6nsBklg5OWytYCOnllSDOl YSfMke0erJGk5Yqr0mS97clE

65446

Something new from Leupold.

MRDS which fits into the existing dovetail, fits most regular holsters and is low enough to use the standard front sight and the optic body as BUIS.

Uses a 1632 battery accessible without dismounting the sight. Leupold claims 3.5 year battery life on setting 4 (is it 5 setting like the regular DPP ?)

Obviously this won’t work with hammer fired guns or SCDs and the window is gonna be like looking through a soda straw. One handed and unconventional positions are going to be an issue.

[Norville]

Interesting, but leads to a question or two...

Is it like looking through a straw?

If the battery life is so great, why can you change it without removing the sight, but must remove sight to field strip the slide (which maybe some people only do every 4years)?

Good too see they are innovating though.

[HCM]

Interesting, but leads to a question or two...

Is it like looking through a straw?

If the battery life is so great, why can you change it without removing the sight, but must remove sight to field strip the slide (which maybe some people only do every 4years)?

Good too see they are innovating though.

If you were using the red dot properly in a target focus I would think the small radical would be like occluded eye aiming.

The problem with the small window is track in the dart in recoil, one-handed shooting an unconventional positions. The smaller the window the less forgiving.

I suspect this thing is targeted at the dock curious who are not willing to commit to an optics cut.

[Clusterfrack]

I think I hate this design. It seems to add constraints unnecessarily.

[Blades]

Umm, it's different.

[GearFondler]

Looking at the pics I am incredibly sceptical... It seems like the RDS equivalent of Springfield's SAS iron sights.
It's well established that the smaller the window the more precise the index must be... And good luck tracking that dot under recoil.
And blocking slide removal is just dumb.

[Clusterfrack]

I’m going to give my buddies at Leupold a bunch of crap.

[JHC]

I'm intrigued by how well one's iron sight index might translate to indexing to this dot.

HCM re SHO/WHO or unconventional positions - can you expand on that watch out? If one can find one's front sight in those scenarios and this dot co-witnesses to the front sight . . . ?

I'd like to see one mounted live.

My cut up Sharpie cap isn't looking to bad in dry fire. ;)

65451

[GearFondler]

I'm intrigued by how well one's iron sight index might translate to indexing to this dot.

HCM re SHO/WHO or unconventional positions - can you expand on that watch out? If one can find one's front sight in those scenarios and this dot co-witnesses to the front sight . . . ?

I'd like to see one mounted live.

My cut up Sharpie cap isn't looking to bad in dry fire. ;)

65451Your quick mod still lets your eyes track the front and rear irons together and adjust the index to match them up... I don't see that as possible with this new design but I could be wrong.

[JHC]

Your quick mod still lets your eyes track the front and rear irons together and adjust the index to match them up... I don't see that as possible with this new design but I could be wrong.

yeah my mock up might be proto-typing the "Gen 2" version. :D (I stole that from anonymous who just texted me)

[HCM]

I'm intrigued by how well one's iron sight index might translate to indexing to this dot.

HCM re SHO/WHO or unconventional positions - can you expand on that watch out? If one can find one's front sight in those scenarios and this dot co-witnesses to the front sight . . . ?

I'd like to see one mounted live.

My cut up Sharpie cap isn't looking to bad in dry fire. ;)

65451

Just because you can see through the rear window doesn't mean you will see the dot.

In unconventional positions and one handed you can't rely on your index like you can in a conventional 2 handed standing or seated position.

When you use Iron sights you are always using your peripheral vision to help pick up and align the sights, whether consciously or unconsciously. This is where the "scope shadow" of tube sights like Aimpoint Micros and ACROs or semi tube sights like the SRO is useful. The new Holosun with Vulcan reticle uses the same concept.

Using co-witness to find the dot is doing 4 things vs doing 1 thing. Unconventional positions is one of the few times it can be useful but still sub optimal.

The other issue is how much of the tiny window is taken up by the front sight ? My initial dislike of the RMR was based in part on the fact that the True co-witness BUIS took up half of what was an already small window. A switch to 1/4 co-witness BUIS made the RMR much more usable.

[Clusterfrack]

I’d rather have a laser.

[Casual Friday]

I can appreciate the outside the box thinking, but for now until proven otherwise a participation trophy is all I can give Leupold on this one.

65463

[Clusterfrack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201230/b8f594589dc4eae42c04548d6681a523.jpg

[JHC]

Just because you can see through the rear window doesn't mean you will see the dot.

In unconventional positions and one handed you can't rely on your index like you can in a conventional 2 handed standing or seated position.

When you use Iron sights you are always using your peripheral vision to help pick up and align the sights, whether consciously or unconsciously. This is where the "scope shadow" of tube sights like Aimpoint Micros and ACROs or semi tube sights like the SRO is useful. The new Holosun with Vulcan reticle uses the same concept.

Using co-witness to find the dot is doing 4 things vs doing 1 thing. Unconventional positions is one of the few times it can be useful but still sub optimal.

The other issue is how much of the tiny window is taken up by the front sight ? My initial dislike of the RMR was based in part on the fact that the True co-witness BUIS took up half of what was an already small window. A switch to 1/4 co-witness BUIS made the RMR much more usable.

Thanks!

Co-witness is just how you find your front sight if the RDS fails. That's been my understanding of the concept on carbines anyway.

The interesting thing about co-witness in this context is about how close to habituated iron sight indexes might be to acquiring the dot. That was the reference to the co-witness I was aiming at.

Front post might be occluding massive real estate, especially with a HD front.

I guess it won't be out for months so its mostly moot at this point. It'll be fun (to me anyway) to hear more about it. There isn't a single RDS on the market tempting me at all presently so I'm all for new takes on the subject.

[HCM]

includes a view through the optic.

65465


https://youtu.be/6pHOSbztXik

[HCM]

Do you think the giant sloped surface reflecting light draws the eye down ?

65466

[JHC]

includes a view through the optic.

65465


https://youtu.be/6pHOSbztXik

Nice find. At the 3:47 mark there's a glimpse of the view through recoil. FWIW.

[JHC]

I just like somebody taking a flier in a different direction. The real range reviews will be the daddy. I am reminded of the universal TRASHING AR pistols got when they first arrived on the scene. ;)

[HCM]

I just like somebody taking a flier in a different direction. The real range reviews will be the daddy. I am reminded of the universal TRASHING AR pistols got when they first arrived on the scene. ;)

Before braces, the thrashing was valid.

I can see the market for this being 1) dot curious individuals and if viable, 2) cheap PD's that don't want to spring for new guns, people who want a dot but cant cut up an issued / mandated gun.

It will work in most non RDS concealment holsters but a true retention holster like a 6360 ALS/SLS would be a no go.

[JHC]

Before braces, the thrashing was valid.

I can see the market for this being 1) dot curious individuals and if viable, 2) cheap PD's that don't want to spring for new guns, people who want a dot but cant cut up an issued / mandated gun.

It will work in most non RDS concealment holsters but a true retention holster like a 6360 ALS/SLS would be a no go.

All of that. Hunting is a more likely application of an RDS for me than concealed carry.

[CCT125US]

Also not SCD / Gadget compatible....

[Quantrill]

It should be safe from the Glock ejection pattern.

[Casual Friday]

5 bucks says GJM breaks at least 5 of them in 2021.

[GJM]

5 bucks says GJM breaks at least 5 of them in 2021.

I will take the other side of that bet. :p

[YVK]

I will need a bottom part of my progressive glasses to see where to look for the dot.

[DMCutter]

It looks like it would be only slightly more forgiving than the Mepro bullseye on the 365 SAS. I like new shit but I think I'll keep my RMRs and 507s.

[BigT]

Yeah thats going to be a no from me ,dawg.

[Trukinjp13]

W
T
F


As a recent Delta Point owner. This pisses me off. You could have improved upon the pro. Instead this shitbox.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[littlejerry]

Never have I heard a pistol RDO shooter say "I wish my window was smaller..."

[Elwin]

My first thought was, "Hey guys, now you can make the back of a Glock slide even harder to conceal."

I'm not a dot guy, and I'm sure that's not the biggest problem, and maybe they're not even marketing it as a carry thing, but damn.

[RevolverRob]

I really thought this was a troll from Leupold.

This trash is real.

Damn, 2020 Strikes Again.

[Lex Luthier]

I kind of like it, but only if they add brass trim, a couple of exposed gears, and a provision to fit it to the Mannlicher Model 1901 and still clear the hammer.

(I'll see myself out.)

[farscott]

While I am not fond of the package, how it makes the pistol longer, and how it is not compatible with the SCD, I am quite impressed that the electronics fit into the sight volume. I look at the DPM as a branch off the development trunk of the MRDS. I expect the developments that led to the smaller package will be used on future designs.

I also wonder what requirements drove the DPM. That is a very pistol specific design. I wonder if the DPM was a way to meet requirements in an agency or .gov RFQ. If the original customer was an agency with open carry, I could see how the design would make more sense. No need for the users to access the slide internals and open carry makes the increased length less of an issue. Plus no need to deal with adapter plates or slide milling, lowering cost and depot-level part inventory.

I might consider one for a VP9, should a model be offered.

[RevolverRob]

Actually, I thought of a good application for this. Internal hammer revolvers ala J-Frame bodyguards.

[HCM]

Recoil article with good photos:

https://www.recoilweb.com/leupold-deltapoint-micro-takes-on-micro-red-dots-164637.html?fbclid=IwAR1JDM54zBvmSL6LPQ4S64iZd8q-_5gCo4XfA93bFRSZe_GroBpjEBBNzs8

65520

[DamonL]

Do you think they were trying to meet the CBP RFI?

https://soldiersystems.net/2020/02/07/cbp-seeks-service-handgun-electronic-aiming-device-for-new-glock-pistols/

[littlejerry]

While I am not fond of the package, how it makes the pistol longer, and how it is not compatible with the SCD, I am quite impressed that the electronics fit into the sight volume. I look at the DPM as a branch off the development trunk of the MRDS. I expect the developments that led to the smaller package will be used on future designs.

I also wonder what requirements drove the DPM. That is a very pistol specific design. I wonder if the DPM was a way to meet requirements in an agency or .gov RFQ. If the original customer was an agency with open carry, I could see how the design would make more sense. No need for the users to access the slide internals and open carry makes the increased length less of an issue. Plus no need to deal with adapter plates or slide milling, lowering cost and depot-level part inventory.

I might consider one for a VP9, should a model be offered.

Frankly I'm surprised that no one has brought to market a non-replaceable(or at least no quick change) battery option. Cell phones and smart watches went this route long ago to optimize size and packaging without sacrificing durability.

You could also justify a smaller, lower cappacity battery if all it took was half an hour connected to a magnetic charging cable to hit 100%.

[farscott]

Do you think they were trying to meet the CBP RFI?

https://soldiersystems.net/2020/02/07/cbp-seeks-service-handgun-electronic-aiming-device-for-new-glock-pistols/

I do not believe so based on the following requirement in that RFI that requires the sight to mount to the "MOS-Cut".


Shall mount to the handgun slide MOS-cut directly, without the use of adaptor plates.

[DamonL]

True, but it meets a lot of the requirements.

[Tensaw]

My cut up Sharpie cap isn't looking to bad in dry fire. ;)

65451

You Red. Neck! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! :D (I can chunk that particular rock cause I are one too. I am also about half lit so there’s that.)

[JCN]

I will likely buy one because I am dumb and like trying things out that are silly in case they turn out to be awesome.

I have a couple G26s that don’t get any love anymore that this might be perfect for. Kind of like the closed emitter version of the Noblex thingy that broke lenses immediately after mounting and shooting.

[Caballoflaco]

This looks like the standard new product that might have been interesting 15 years ago that Leupopd has been giving us since the early 00’s.

[23JAZ]

Looks like you can’t use a gadget with it so it’s a no go out the gate for me!

[Inkwell 41]

So, this is Leupolds modernized take on the “Guttersnipe” from the old ASP pistol?

[DaBigBR]

I feel like Leupold is a great magnified optics company that is forever chasing a red dot optic that people want. The Deltapoint Pro is as close as they've gotten. This is a regression. It's like a D-Evo for a pistol - good on you for making something different, but who is this for?

[Shadow]

Hard to tell from the images we've seen but would shooting in low light with this optic be another drawback? Seems like the dot may fill the entire lens area (bloom),if adjusted and kept at a level that works in good lighting, like most carry daily. A blooming dot inside such a small diameter tube combined with the sight body may obscure a large portion of the intended target. Not an issue unless the aiming area is small in size requiring a precision shot. Just a thought.

[MSparks909]

I like the design and concept. Gonna order one and throw it on one of my G17s

[HCM]

Hard to tell from the images we've seen but would shooting in low light with this optic be another drawback? Seems like the dot may fill the entire lens area (bloom),if adjusted and kept at a level that works in good lighting, like most carry daily. A blooming dot inside such a small diameter tube combined with the sight body may obscure a large portion of the intended target. Not an issue unless the aiming area is small in size requiring a precision shot. Just a thought.

Given how small the window on this thing is I think it’s meant to be used in a matter of similar to included I done site, not a conventional optic.

[Borderland]

Maybe the military will buy a billion of them.:)

[YVK]

Maybe the military will buy a billion of them.:)

And put them on remaining M9s, just for giggles.

[GJM]

At this point, it might be easier to describe who this optic will not appeal to, then who it will appeal to. I predict a narrow target market.

[littlejerry]

And put them on remaining M9s, just for giggles.

Are you serious? This dot mounted to a 1911 gives the overmatch capability the Army has been seeking.

[MolonLabe416]

https://www.leupold.com/leupold-core/stories/introducing-the-deltapoint-micro

[ranger]

There are a lot of products that PF does not like that make the firearms manufacturers a lot of money.

[JonInWA]

The test for me would be if it provides a rugged, reliable sighting system that provides quantifiably superior results to iron sights. If so, I'd be willing to try it. The next question will be how well the relatively small aperture/screen performs compared to both iron sights and larger RDS.

At this point, I'm pretty open minded regarding it, and can see trying it on one of my Gen 3 Glocks.

Once some of our members have empirically tested it, I'll be very interested to read their reports. Right now, most everyone seems to be criticizing before testing.

Best, Jon

[TAZ]

I don’t know. I think I like the idea, but the execution for a concealment gun is lacking IMO. For me, the things the print when carrying AIWB are the rear sight and end of the grip. This design seems to accentuate the rear sight/end of slide. Aside from maybe just breaking up the outline enough to cause confusion fusion, this may print badly. Maybe a gen 2 device with the battery compartment better laid out..

In the end, if it works and offers the ability to stay target focused like “traditional” RDS it will be good for those who don’t do the whole AIWB thing.

[JHC]

There are a lot of products that PF does not like that make the firearms manufacturers a lot of money.

And sometimes across a year PF gets to liking them very very much. ;)

[JHC]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CJn7OslJvvD/?igshid=eqdao0x4v0bm

I figured it wouldn’t be long coming. He seems to like it.

[David S.]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CJn7OslJvvD/?igshid=eqdao0x4v0bm

I figured it wouldn’t be long coming. He seems to like it.

Tim Kennedy has some positive comments up on his IG too.

[Archer1440]

I suspect this will go over very well with a large segment of the Glock/M&P crowd. My initial negative gut reaction is similar to many others here, but I can see the appeal for a lot of people. Especially considering the price point.

Sooner or later, a fully enclosed optic will be the norm, and having something that isn’t the size and shape of a US Mail box has some appeal.

With that said, I imagine it’s just a matter of time before they come out with mounts that will work for some other striker pistols.

[GJM]

Before this thread goes off the rails, let’s keep the discussion technically focused and leave the crazy memes for Facebook!

[JHC]

Around the 3:40 mark of the video at this review there is a view of re-acquiring the dot through recoil on a Glock 43.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gear-review-leupold-deltapoint-micro-optic-video/

[Shadow]

I'm going to give the micro a shot on my 48. I tried to order one this morning from Europtics and Optics Planet but both say back ordered. Optics planet says a 5-7 month back order. Anyone know where they are in stock?

[vcdgrips]

Minor thread rant. The Truth about guns guy may be a great dude and very knowledgeable but...

If you really want me to believe in what you are shooting and/or how you are shooting, then film it so I can see the hits in real or near real time.

Adding a bit of helpful commentary would be appreciated as well.


Just hammering rounds down range with no frame of reference at all as to distance/groups etc. is quite frustrating.


For Example:
Hear I am at the 7 yrd line and I can just hammer an 8 inch plate as fast as I can pull the trigger with this sight...

I am at the 15 and I am able to reliably make hits on an IDPA headbox with .5 sec splits all day long...not something I can reliably do with iron sights.

I struggle with one handed shooting and I found using this sight...


Thank you for listening.

[JHC]

Minor thread rant. The Truth about guns guy may be a great dude and very knowledgeable but...

If you really want me to believe in what you are shooting and/or how you are shooting, then film it so I can see the hits in real or near real time.

Adding a bit of helpful commentary would be appreciated as well.


Just hammering rounds down range with no frame of reference at all as to distance/groups etc. is quite frustrating.


For Example:
Hear I am at the 7 yrd line and I can just hammer an 8 inch plate as fast as I can pull the trigger with this sight...

I am at the 15 and I am able to reliably make hits on an IDPA headbox with .5 sec splits all day long...not something I can reliably do with iron sights.

I struggle with one handed shooting and I found using this sight...


Thank you for listening.

Yep, I considered that aspect of Truth about Guns. ;) Why I zeroed in on the videography part.

[gato naranja]

Sooner or later, a fully enclosed optic will be the norm...

A trek through some Iowa flood plain in marginal winter weather made me much happier with my old Ultra-Dot than a buddy's (brand redacted) new "open reflex sight" made him. Despite all the "other" types that have come down the pike in the last ten years, I still prefer a fully enclosed optic.

[GJM]

There is lots of chatter about finding the dot and other considerations that don’t apply to those of us shooting a dot now. What I want to know, is how does performance with this new optic compare to performance with other red dot optics. So far, I have seen zero data on that point.

[spyderco monkey]

At this point, it might be easier to describe who this optic will not appeal to, then who it will appeal to. I predict a narrow target market.

I can see this (or more likely, a future version of this concept) being hugely popular.

The reason being simplicity and cost.

Theres what - 8-10 million Glocks in the the US? The vast majority without an MOS cut.

And adding a RMR cut to a legacy pistol Glock is $175, plus cost of a new set of suppressor heigh sight ($50), and the hassle of sending the slide out for 4-6 weeks.

With this or similar system, the user just knocks off the existing rear sight, and instals this. Order the thing from Amazon, 3 days later your legacy Glock is Red Dot equipped, with a savings of $225 vs having the gun milled.

I can see a future version, where instead of this:
https://i.ibb.co/NL2cQRd/Dp-mod.png

They flip the battery mount so that its parallel with the rear of the slide:
https://i.ibb.co/9hQsmpq/Dp-mod.jpg

[Archer1440]

I’m sure they would have done that, but it would require a much smaller battery... ala ACRO. Unless of course you have a self-cleaning Glock...

[Shadow]

I can see this (or more likely, a future version of this concept) being hugely popular.

The reason being simplicity and cost.

Theres what - 8-10 million Glocks in the the US? The vast majority without an MOS cut.

And adding a RMR cut to a legacy pistol Glock is $175, plus cost of a new set of suppressor heigh sight ($50), and the hassle of sending the slide out for 4-6 weeks.

With this or similar system, the user just knocks off the existing rear sight, and instals this. Order the thing from Amazon, 3 days later your legacy Glock is Red Dot equipped, with a savings of $225 vs having the gun milled.

I can see a future version, where instead of this:
https://i.ibb.co/NL2cQRd/Dp-mod.png

They flip the battery mount so that its parallel with the rear of the slide:
https://i.ibb.co/9hQsmpq/Dp-mod.jpg

I'm guessing if the battery tray was parralell to the back plate the 90* angle it would create might become a point of potential failure from the slide cycling.

[spyderco monkey]

I’m sure they would have done that, but it would require a much smaller battery... ala ACRO. Unless of course you have a self-cleaning Glock...

Here's a CR2016 on the back of a 17L slide; the 2016 is the same diameter as the standard 2032, just thinner (I didnt have any spare 2032's)

https://i.ibb.co/Mkq0FVz/CR2032-Battery-Glock-Slide.jpg

It would probably end up with a slightly higher RDS mount then the current DPM to allow enough clearance for the slide to be removed. But I don't think this presents an insurmountable engineering challenge by any means, and I think the overall RDS heigh would end up comparable to current milled setups, as the RDS itself would be thinner minus the battery compartment.

But overall, I think some variation of this would be a promising future development of the Deltapoint Micro concept, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more red dots built around this idea. Take this parallel battery concept, the rear dovetail sight mount of the DPM, and then a bigger, more traditional window that incorporates a built in backup rear sight, and we'd be cooking with gas.

[Archer1440]

Here's a CR2016 on the back of a 17L slide; the 2016 is the same diameter as the standard 2032, just thinner (I didnt have any spare 2032's)

https://i.ibb.co/Mkq0FVz/CR2032-Battery-Glock-Slide.jpg

It would probably end up with a slightly higher RDS mount then the current DPM to allow enough clearance for the slide to be removed. But I don't think this presents an insurmountable engineering challenge by any means, and I think the overall RDS heigh would end up comparable to current milled setups, as the RDS itself would be thinner minus the battery compartment.

But overall, I think some variation of this would be a promising future development of the Deltapoint Micro concept, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more red dots built around this idea. Take this parallel battery concept, the rear dovetail sight mount of the DPM, and then a bigger, more traditional window that incorporates a built in backup rear sight, and we'd be cooking with gas.

Engineering battery contacts that would withstand cycling in that direction sounds like an interesting challenge.

[Rex G]

Well, OK, now I have learned the identity of that which I have been seeing in the memes. I will keep an open mind. It may serve some roles. Maybe a low-profile offset back-up optic on a long gun, if someone will make Pic-rail-to-Glock-rear-sight-dovetail adapters?

I fiddled with an RMR, temporarily diverted from BUOS on a long gun, on a Glock MOS, then went an Aimpoint ACRO P-1, on a milled Glock slide, so, I am already OK with red dots on pistols, and not feeling a need for anything smaller than the ACRO.

[spyderco monkey]

Engineering battery contacts that would withstand cycling in that direction sounds like an interesting challenge.

Ah, that is something I hadn't considered, and have no idea about.

Weapon mounted lights have their battery contacts in the line of recoil, but obviously a fixed weapon light - even on a shotgun - is subject to far less G force then a slide mount.

[archangel]

Ah, that is something I hadn't considered, and have no idea about.

Weapon mounted lights have their battery contacts in the line of recoil, but obviously a fixed weapon light - even on a shotgun - is subject to far less G force then a slide mount.

You could hang it over the side of the slide instead of the rear. That gets it out from under the optic window but still keeps the battery contacts perpendicular to slide recoil. It would interfere with the serrations, but that's not an insurmountable problem.

[DamonL]

I think they were trying to have it fit holsters, too. I looks like it can work with open top holsters, but may have problems with retention holsters that go over the back of the slide.

[Archer1440]

You could hang it over the side of the slide instead of the rear. That gets it out from under the optic window but still keeps the battery contacts perpendicular to slide recoil. It would interfere with the serrations, but that's not an insurmountable problem.

That is a rather more interesting idea, and it might serve as an effective cocking lever as well. The problem with that would be the control button situation, and having it compatible with handedness for the shooter.

What we really need is an enclosed emitter optic with great reliability, great battery life, and an acceptable size. That takes us back to the product-improved ACRO that AIMPOINT is supposedly about to deploy.

[Nephrology]

I can envision a future in which this basic profile is very common for smaller carry guns... but that future is not today. I think solving the problem of battery size:power ratio would need to come first. That dongle hanging off the back of the slide is.... "problematic," to use a word I feel like the NYTimes would approve of.

Curious to see where it goes. If nothing else, I have to give credit to Leupold for being innovative (not something they are lately known for if we are honest!)

[Dave Williams]

I'm interested to try one out. I'll save judgement till then.

[Spartan1980]

Gotta admit, the low profile to the bore just may be my bridge to the dot world. I'm intrigued enough to probably try one out. If they had one for a VP9 I'd have it on order already.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frct9oKGJrs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWWzzSySxIA

[Shadow]

I had an opportunity to shoot the DPM last week. I was skeptical about the window size but also felt it had promise because of the "dot" location in relation to iron sights. I ran 100 rounds of full power .40cal 180 grain ammo through a G22 with the DPM mounted on it.

Started cold with draws to 1 shot engagements at 10 yards. From the very first shot I was impressed with how quickly and effortlessly the dot found its way to the intended target. The small diameter tube proved to be a non factor from the draw. As I suspected the dot basically being located where my rear sight would be aided in dot aquisition.

The second series of drills were controlled pairs and hammers at 10 yards. Tracking the dot under recoil was also very easy. I did find that a good master grip and proper recoil management aided in dot recovery during multiple round engagements. Not unlike other dots like an RMR, DPP or Holosun but it seemed to be more critical with the narrower field of view.

The last drill was multiple target engagements at 10 yards followed by quick follow up face shots. I've always instructed my students to look through their rear sight to find the front sight when using irons. With that in mind transitioning from target to target was a breeze with the dot presenting itself clearly during each evolution. Follow up face shots were quick and easy to place accurately despite having a smaller "window" for refined shots.

Due to time and ammo restrictions I had to keep the testing short but all in all I think the DPM is a solid option.

[GJM]

I got to dry fire a G19X with the new Leupold today. On so many levels this thing seems flawed. No Gadget, pokes into your body carried appendix, you can’t hit the back of the slide when drawing and ride down into place with a high grip, and the display is so small is hardly should be called a display. I can’t imagine any experienced red dot shooter preferring this over iron sights.

[GJM]

https://youtu.be/xDxVeo0bBA4

[GearFondler]

https://youtu.be/xDxVeo0bBA4He was remarkably diplomatic... More so than I expected. Almost too much, perhaps.
I can't see how it makes any sense to spend $400 on this thing, even if you're only dot-curious and want to try out the RDS concept. You're going to instantly see the advantages of a dot while also instantly seeing the disadvantages of this particular design. And then you're gonna feel like you just wasted $400 because you either don't like shooting with a dot (quite possibly because you experimented with a shitty design) or you realize you actually need a traditional RDS design.
And yes, I realize how much it costs to experiment the other way: buying the RDS, plus needing a pistol that is set up for it or milling a slide, but damn, this just doesn't seem like a good alternative to me.

[dontshakepandas]

He was remarkably diplomatic... More so than I expected. Almost too much, perhaps.
I can't see how it makes any sense to spend $400 on this thing, even if you're only dot-curious and want to try out the RDS concept. You're going to instantly see the advantages of a dot while also instantly seeing the disadvantages of this particular design. And then you're gonna feel like you just wasted $400 because you either don't like shooting with a dot (quite possibly because you experimented with a shitty design) or you realize you actually need a traditional RDS design.
And yes, I realize how much it costs to experiment the other way: buying the RDS, plus needing a pistol that is set up for it or milling a slide, but damn, this just doesn't seem like a good alternative to me.

I agree.

I appreciate the willingness to innovate and think outside the box, but being different doesn’t make it useful.