Dan Wesson Specialist vs Springfield Armory TRP Operator?

[Rmiked]

If a guy was willing to spend $1700 on a 1911, how do these 2 stack up? If I am reading correctly the DW has a forged slide and forged frame while the SA TRP has forged frame and slide. The DW is stainless steel while the SA is carbon steel. Would be interested in thoughts. Here is $1700, which would you get assuming this is your first 1911 and you plan on only owning 1. Thanks

[Wingate's Hairbrush]

You may want to check out s couple of the dedicated 1911 forums where this question and many versions of it have been hashed out several times over. Informative reading.

Through line is the tilt will be toward Dan Wesson as the overall better production 1911 builder for parts, fitting, etc.; the TRP, however, is quality and does have its faithful. You will likely be equally well served by either and I'd argue whichever one is stock configured most to your liking is the way to go.

One thing to be aware of on the TRP is its checkering is 20lpi and at least in the example I've handled (and by the reports of others) is very sharp and uncomfortable for some. DWs are 25lpi and grippy but very forgiving of bare hands.

[donlapalma]

I've owned both. You'll be happy with either one, but I will say that the DW did seem to be just a hair higher in quality. Totally subjective of course. Oh, and this notion of owning just one out the window. Been there. Believed that. Now I have a Springfield Pro and telling myself this is the last one. Riiiight.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

[MGW]

I assume you are buying new for $1700 but that money puts you in reach of some really great 1911’s. Even though the gun market is crazy right now the used 1911 market hasn’t really followed that trend. I’m a big Springfield fan and their warranty can’t be beat. That being said I would probably not spend $1700 on a new TRP.

Get cozy with 1911 addicts or ask around here for something used. If you look long enough you’ll find a bargain. If you are dead set on new I think the DW and TRP are both great options.

[Rmiked]

Are the other options used? Any new I’m not mentioning? Are you implying someone might pick up a used 1911 that was a good bit more expensive and higher quality that the current owner is wanting to sell even though nothing wrong with it?

[JSGlock34]

I'll offer that I was all set on a TRP right up until I held one. The 20LPI front strap is very aggressive and wasn't my cup of tea. I've discovered that I'm not a particular fan of ambi-safeties on 1911s. I'd recommend picking up a few 1911 models and getting a sense of grips, sights, safeties, front strap treatment, etc.

At your price point I'd also consider the new Springfield Armory Vickers Tactical Master Class (https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-vickers-tactical-handguns/) (if you can find one at MSRP - they're currently selling for a premium but should come back down as more are produced).

[L-2]

https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-trp-handguns/1911-trp-45-acp-handgun-stainless/
Note, this referenced Springfield-Armory TRP is a stainless version.
It'll help if the OP can decide upon which factors are important (to him) and not what I'd buy.

Some people won't buy any products from Springfield-Armory at all due to its prior political dealings within Illinois (I think it was there); and some folks don't feel comfortable with prior stories of Dan Wesson 1911s locking up due to slide-to-frame galling or some such reasons.

Some factors are:
-steel type, stainless or carbon; and finish
-barrel length
-barrel bushing or not
-accessory rail or not
-beavertail type or classic "rat-tail" grip safety (mil-spec look or not)
-frame size; rounded/bobbed butt or not
-caliber (9mm or .45, typically)

Other things a 1911 model will come with but are more easily changed later to the owner's preference (ROM est. $100 each change, could be more or less and depending on gunsmith or not):
-sights
-grips
-thumb safety (e.g. single-sided or ambi)
-trigger look & length, type
-magazines, brand, basepad, number which come with initial gun purchase

Then there are just other things people might want or others don't care:
-front strap checkering or checkering on other places
-initial sight type (adjustable or fixed; as some adjustable sights need the slide cut)
-front serrations or not, on slide
-brand name
-warranty, after purchase customer service
-top of slide treatment/machining

I don't have either brand but both would seem good to have. I just never got around to owning these 1911 brands but do have two Springfield-Armory rifles. S-A's customer service was good. It just takes time (again, ~6 weeks). Any 1911 new-out-of-the-box may have problems. How much is spent initially "might" help. Conversely, any new-out-of-the-box 1911 may work 100%. It can take some knowledge as to what the owner knows how to tweak, rather than having to send the entire gun back to customer service immediately.

Just know this ahead of time should you need to send it back for an estimated 6 weeks after its first magazine. Some companies will tell the owner to fire (name your quantity but let's estimate) 200 rounds before calling back to determine if any problem goes away before they'll OK a return shipment for warranty. In today's market, that could be another $200 in ammo. So many times people will say "but this shouldn't have happened on a $1700 1911". All I can think of is, maybe if the owner had spent $1701 instead of only $1700. As I previously said "any" 1911 may have problems and this is regardless of price paid. I generally don't recommend a 1911 to anybody anymore. Yet, if the buyer wants one and understands what may be involved ahead of time, go for it. It is a classic design and can feel and shoot well.

OP, let us know what eventually gets bought. I understand some guns are hard to get/find right now. Both brands have good reputations and I can't fault either. Another thought might be, if you can't afford both, perhaps don't buy either as I think having two 1911s is better than just having one (but folks here often have more than one handgun whether it's a 1911 or other). I'm still keeping three 1911s after having several more.

[TC215]

I’ve had Springfield and DW, my vote is for the Specialist.

The only Springfield 1911 I’d care for at this point, other than maybe another Pro, would be the Lightweight Operator. I shot one once and thought it was a cool gun.

https://i.imgur.com/IXTggRf.jpg

[JohnK]

Never dealt with Wesson but I have had multiple Springfields and other 1911s with 20, 25, and 30lpi. I can say that my TRP does everything my others do at a smaller price point. 1700 is a bit strong for a TRP in my humble opinion and I agree that it puts you in the realm of other nice 1911s.

I love the 20lpi, don't mind the ambi safety. I may have gotten a "Wednesday" gun. My 20lpi is almost as "soft" as my professional. And I wanted the ambi safety for a carry gun. Again, it's another Wednesday feature because it is actually fit better than my others.

[JSGlock34]

I love the 20lpi, don't mind the ambi safety. I may have gotten a "Wednesday" gun. My 20lpi is almost as "soft" as my professional. And I wanted the ambi safety for a carry gun. Again, it's another Wednesday feature because it is actually fit better than my others.
And this is exactly my point; pick up a few 1911s and see which features appeal to you and which do not. Some like 20LPI front straps, some don't. Some like ambi-safeties, some don't. Some like adjustable rear sights, and some don't. People debate the merits of the various grip safety designs and lengths of trigger shoes. There's a reason there are so many manufacturers producing 1911 variants and still room for high end custom work.

That's not to say you need to buy a full boat custom gun, but when spending $1700 you'll want to get it pretty close to "your way". Certain things are easy to swap out (e.g. grips), whereas others are more involved, require a gunsmith, and will be expensive (safeties), and others you'll be stuck with (front strap treatment).

Choosing a quality manufacturer is a good start; I think DW and Springfield are the best choices at your price point. My personal experience with Springfield Armory's warranty service was superior, and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a SA product. If you have an issue, I'm confident they will make it right on their dime.

[JAH 3rd]

$1700 puts you in company of many great choices whether stock or semi-custom. I can see where you would have a hard time choosing a firearm. I have owned a DW A2 for about 18 months now. Solidly built. 100% function. The only thing I would add to it would be front strap checkering. My next 1911 will have it.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I own six Dan Wesson’s, four are all stainless and no hint of galling. My only concern nowadays is the lack of support and overall technical support presence of Dan Wesson. The company has taken a huge hit being in NY and all of the key members of the Norwich operations were whacked. Customer Service is now being handled by CZ-USA which is concerning to me, given how they are not 1911 smiths by and large.

[awp_101]

$1700 puts you in company of many great choices whether stock or semi-custom. I can see where you would have a hard time choosing a firearm.
I'm looking in the $1500-2000 price range for my next one and paralysis by analysis is absolutely a thing...

[JAD]

I own six Dan Wesson’s, four are all stainless and no hint of galling. My only concern nowadays is the lack of support and overall technical support presence of Dan Wesson. The company has taken a huge hit being in NY and all of the key members of the Norwich operations were whacked. Customer Service is now being handled by CZ-USA which is concerning to me, given how they are not 1911 smiths by and large.

If Keith Lawson is still there it will be fine. If not, I’d like to know.

[Rmiked]

Well I have held a DW with 25 LPI checkering and I like the feel. The 20 LPI spec on the SA got my attention and I was wondering what that would feel like. I have always like a 1911 design as I hold John Browning in high esteem. When I visited the FBI building in DC I toured the gun museum And it was a resume for Browning including BARs, machine guns on Tripods, the works. He was a gifted thinker for sure. Anyway, I own and love my Beretta 92A1 and can completely disassemble it and reassemble it and pretty much fix anything if it breaks which never happens. I want a 1911 full size (preferably 9mm) and be able to become as familiar with it as I am my 92. I love cleaning my guns and taking care of them so maintenance is not a problem; I enjoy it. My only dilemma is I don’t want to spend an insignificant amount of money and then be disappointed. It seems to me the stainless vs carbon is a big decision point. I have read about the SS galling issue (rare) and it bugs me but I have read about carbon steel pistols galling as well. Seems like if the relative hardness of the slide vs frame material is specified correctly the other reasons for galling would be machining (burrs) or out of spec dimensions. If I could find a DW Specialist (SS) and examine it I might buy it. Somewhat pulled toward the PM 9 as well. But both are SS. I have heard Bill Wilson say the reliability of a 9mm today is on par with 45s. If Dan Wesson has a good run going and then lost many employees at the NY facility (during Covid) that could change quality. Also if they changed suppliers of frames and slides, if they don’t make their own, that could change quality. So that’s kind of where I am. I will use the 1911 for home defense, range time and in my Tacoma traveling with wife or to my farm for hunting; everything but a daily carry gun for which my 92 serves that purpose. My interests in 1911s was peaked shooting my friends in 45ACP. It was a Remington of all pistols and I put 3 shots within 3” at 25 yards first time I shot it (Standing, not rested on a bag) which is much better than I shoot my 92. Don’t ask me to explain it because I can’t. Something about the grip angle, thinner profile, sight picture and crisp trigger just worked for me. Ever since then I can’t quit thinking about it. Nothing against the Remington but I am retired now and don’t see me getting another 1911 (I’ll probably regret saying that) but I want a “ nicer pistol” in case I don’t get another. Can someone confirm DW makes their own frames and slides or if not, have they changed suppliers? And if so, how is it working? Would also be interested in thoughts on PM9 vs Specialist. When I called the NY facility recently they said still making the PM9

[Rmiked]

I'm looking in the $1500-2000 price range for my next one and paralysis by analysis is absolutely a thing...

Let us know how you proceed w.r.t. deciding what pistol to buy. I can relate to your post

[TC215]

If Keith Lawson is still there it will be fine. If not, I’d like to know.

Keith Lawton is still there. I’m not sure “all their key members” getting whacked is an accurate representation. Endre Toth, one of the ‘smiths isn’t there anymore. Shawn, who would handle return work and parts orders, is gone and now that’s being handled by a lady named Genny, I believe.

From Keith:


About two months ago DW was allowed to come back to work during the Phase 1 re-opening phase in upstate NY. We slowly brought our people back and are building an shipping guns to KC for distribution as before though with some changes due to Covid.

The gun smiths in the KC service Dept. are actually trained Gunsmith's with degree's. They work on all of the CZ guns as well as assist with New product development and now DW 1911 services. There may be a slight learning curve to learn the Dan Wesson nuances but believe me, they are more than capable. Any other smith I have had in the past, I have had to train from the ground up.

[awp_101]

Let us know how you proceed w.r.t. deciding what pistol to buy. I can relate to your post

I will but I’ll say TC215 is making a darn compelling case and pushing a DW ahead of a couple of others I’ve been strongly considering.

[HCM]

Take this for what it’s worth as someone who owns way too many 1911s for someone who can’t carry one at work.

While a couple of my favorite 1911s are Springfield, Springfield has also been the source of some of my worst 1911 experiences.

Springfield is known for their excellent customer service and warranty but the best customer service is the one you don’t need to use. Unfortunately my experience with Springfield over the years has been that they are a crapshoot. You may get a great gun or you may get a lemon.

I would recommend a Dan Wesson simply because of their consistent quality, Your odds of getting a good gun out of the box and not having to use customer service are much better with Dan Wesson.

[1911Nut]

"Endre Toth, one of the ‘smiths isn’t there anymore".

Sorry to hear that. I've had very good experiences with both Endre and Keith in the past. POI of sights for DW 1911 "Commanders" were was the subject in both cases.

In late 2019, Endre was a huge help is assisting me in getting a proper height front sight with a brass bead installed on my carry DW Guardian .45 ACP pistol.

But my experience in attempting to communicate with anyone at DW except those two men has been less than enjoyable.

[TC215]

"Endre Toth, one of the ‘smiths isn’t there anymore".

Sorry to hear that. I've had very good experiences with both Endre and Keith in the past. POI of sights for DW 1911 "Commanders" were was the subject in both cases.

In late 2019, Endre was a huge help is assisting me in getting a proper height front sight with a brass bead installed on my carry DW Guardian .45 ACP pistol.

But my experience in attempting to communicate with anyone at DW except those two men has been less than enjoyable.

Yeah, I always go straight to Keith. We’ve met a few times, and I’ve communicated with him for years. He built my first custom from them, and it was awesome.

I’m friends with Endre on Facebook, but he doesn’t post much and hasn’t mentioned anything about his job change.

[JTQ]

I own neither, so take this for what it's worth - I've been primarily a 1911 shooter since the late 1980's and an active member on a couple of 1911 forums for 10 - 15 years.

I would have bet a bunch of money that "galling" on stainless steel firearms was something that gun manufacturers figured how to avoid back in the 1980's. I hadn't heard or read about galling other than comments saying they figured out the metallurgy back in the 1980's and it was a thing of the past. That was until a few years ago when it popped up on the Dan Wesson sub-forums.

I have a hard time believing every gun maker on the planet got the memo on how to avoid galling on stainless firearms, except for Dan Wesson, but I guess it is possible.

Another issue to read up on is issues with the Dan Wesson Duty Finish and using Break Free CLP, or other cleaners.

While these certainly may be issues with Dan Wesson's, it may also be forums/threads like this where knowledgable gun folks, that don't know much about 1911's are looking for their first 1911, and end up with a Dan Wesson, and use their polymer gun care procedures on their 1911, and are surprised when something goes awry.

[JAH 3rd]

I'm looking in the $1500-2000 price range for my next one and paralysis by analysis is absolutely a thing...

Let us know what you finally decide on

[awp_101]

Let us know what you finally decide on
Will do. I made a trip to handle a used Wilson Professional this afternoon. It was clean with a little wear on the barrel hood and top of the muzzle (and missing a grip screw which the store didn't seem to concerned about for some reason) and comes with the Wilson bag/soft case. Looks good, feels good but I simply can't see $2175 OTD for it which is too bad because I really wanted to be blown away and chomping at the bit to put it on layawake for a couple of months. I'm starting to think that despite my desire to splurge and move into the $1500-2000 bracket, I'm really more at home in the $1200-1500 range.

Since I've jumped in and slightly hijacked Rmiked's thread, I should at least say I've got 2 TRPs I purchased used. I find them to be nice and in the couple of range trips they've been on they've not given me any issues that weren't related to a loose trigger nut but I would be hard pressed to justify $1700 for a new one. Maybe if it was going to be my only pistol and it had to pull the triple duty of carry/HD/range fun I could see the extra cost.

[foxj66]

I own six Dan Wesson’s, four are all stainless and no hint of galling. My only concern nowadays is the lack of support and overall technical support presence of Dan Wesson. The company has taken a huge hit being in NY and all of the key members of the Norwich operations were whacked. Customer Service is now being handled by CZ-USA which is concerning to me, given how they are not 1911 smiths by and large.

I wouldn't be concerned. The primary smith for Dan Wesson stuff at CZ is good.

[Bill]

Owned both: I had good experiences with both. As others have mentioned, feature set is probably the primary driver in your decision.

I shot my TRP better because it had adjustable sights and I could really dial it in - and as a result had more confidence with it.

The fixed sights on the Specialist were arguably "more durable" but the hold was never as just right as it was with the adjustables.

For the extra money you'll pay for the Specialist, you just get a little more refinement: thumb safety, slide stop and beavertail will be billet instead of MIM. The Duty black finish is objectively nicer than the baked on Black T.

Ultimately, I liked the adjustable sights, front serrations and slightly heavier trigger on the TRP better because I shot it better. It stayed around and the DW got sold on. YMMV.

[rob_s]

I googled “Dan Wesson Specialist” and had two reactions to what I found. (1) “discontinued 2019”! Oh teh noes! and (2) wtf? Does nobody do high cut front straps anymore?

66226

Then I clicked around their site and found that (1) there is a new for 2020 version! and (2) it has a high cut front strap! and (3) goddamnit they added front cocking serrations! I guess I want a 2019 slide on a 2020 frame.

66225

[Rmiked]

I don’t see any difference in front strap between the two? BTW: Hyatt Gun shop (Charlotte, NC) had a new Specialist with no forward slide serrations this past Wednesday, $1350. It was not on their website but I saw it in the store.

[Artemas2]

I wish I kept my Specialist(9mm) . I like the more aggressive looking dust cover cut over the new one. The gun ran great with ammo it liked (not so much with my reloads), HSTs felt like .22LR. I suspect I will end up with another one when the world calms down again.
66227

[TC215]

I guess I want a 2019 slide on a 2020 frame.

There are some of those out there that were made during the transition.

[41magfan]

Unless something has changed, the DW doesn't have an MIM hammer & sear ... the TRP does. I'm a trigger pull snob, so I had to spend a hundred bucks on tool steel parts before the trigger work could even begin.

[JohnK]

Unless something has changed, the DW doesn't have an MIM hammer & sear ... the TRP does. I'm a trigger pull snob, so I had to spend a hundred bucks on tool steel parts before the trigger work could even begin.

I feel like my TRP (non-operator) has a pretty good trigger, similar to my professional to be honest, with the stock internals. I do plan on upgrading eventually but would be perfectly fine with the stock internals for as long as they hold up. I always believed my TRP was a "Wednesday" gun though as it is on par with what I would expect for the gun at the price point and because it has run like a raped ape over the last year+.

[Gio]

I have a Springfield Professional and used to have a DW Specialist. I know all the hype around the Professional, but the Specialist was honestly at least equal to it in most aspects and superior in a few. The only downside was my Specialist magwell wasn't blended well at the time, but I believe that's been fixed/updated now. The out of the box trigger on the Specialist was phenomenal and much better than any other 1911 I've ever tried.

[ECVMatt]

I am a TRP owner and very happy. I should state upfront that the 1911 is pretty much a BBQ gun for me and I don't use it for anything other than recreational shooting. I am a lefty and for whatever reason when I move my thumb to deactivate the safety a small pocket forms in my palm and the grip safety activates. This doesn't happen all the time, but enough that I don't feel comfortable using it for my protection. Having said that, here are some thoughts on my TPR: I don't feel like the front checkering is a huge deal and I have shot many 100's of rounds in a day with no adverse effects to my hand. My TRP has yet to jam or have even the slightest bobble which I feel is pretty lucky with a 1911, however I mostly shoot ball ammo. I have also shot it side by side with some 4-8K guns from Nighthawk and Wilson. They are obviously of higher quality, but did not shoot any better than the TRP. Since my gun has been pretty much flawless I have not had to use the warranty. I do shoot with a friend who works for the city of Long Beach as a police officer and they like the 1911. He carries the LB Operator and loves it. That is another gun that I have not seen a malfunction with. They feild a lot of guns and are happy with the Springfields. They had lots of problems with Kimber. I have not asked about the DW's.

I know these are crazy gun buying times but I think it is important to physically hold and inspect both guns if at all possible.

Let us know what you choose and how it works out.