Revolver reload par times

[Gun Nerd]

Although I did a ton of reloads at the Revolver Roundup, I didn’t time any of them specifically. So from the group’s experience - what’s a reasonable par time for reloading a snubby from:

1. A speedloader on the belt, and

2. A speed strip in the pocket?

[JRV]

Although I did a ton of reloads at the Revolver Roundup, I didn’t time any of them specifically. So from the group’s experience - what’s a reasonable par time for reloading a snubby from:

1. A speedloader on the belt, and

2. A speed strip in the pocket?

There’s a whole lotta variety in speedloaders and a whole lotta variety in belt carriers. Something with a flap on the top and a twisty loader? 3.5-4 seconds shot-to-shot is probably reasonable par time for someone with a very basic level of training.

Open top loader pouch and an easy-to-grab pushloader? 2.5-3 seconds is a reasonable par time window. Guns with full length ejector rods and smooth cylinders are faster (think the older Colt D-frame snubs), and short ejector rods on modern production J-frames (rougher chambers) typically make the fastest switch-hand reloading technique (FBI) unreliable.

Speedstrip from the pocket is not even worth timing unless you are doing a two-round emergency load. Even then, it’s slow.

[BN]

At one time I was shooting a lot of revolver in IDPA. With a 4" K-Frame, Safariland Comp lll speed loaders and an open top carrier I averaged 2.5 to 3 seconds. Snubby is going to be a lot slower.

[Lon]

jetfire would probably be able to provide some good input here.

[Edster]

There’s a whole lotta variety in speedloaders and a whole lotta variety in belt carriers. Something with a flap on the top and a twisty loader? 3.5-4 seconds shot-to-shot is probably reasonable par time for someone with a very basic level of training.

Open top loader pouch and an easy-to-grab pushloader? 2.5-3 seconds is a reasonable par time window. Guns with full length ejector rods and smooth cylinders are faster (think the older Colt D-frame snubs), and short ejector rods on modern production J-frames (rougher chambers) typically make the fastest switch-hand reloading technique (FBI) unreliable.

Speedstrip from the pocket is not even worth timing unless you are doing a two-round emergency load. Even then, it’s slow.

Interesting. I noticed a full second difference in my times between HKS and Comp II speedloaders as well.

I like the perceived robustness of HKS and had invested in several. Nevertheless, the comparative results were so consistent that I couldn't conclude anything other than the Comp was a second faster. Fortunately, the Comps aren't expensive and they fit the same holders.

[Wheeler]

From a competitive point of view, 3-ish seconds with a comp 2 from the belt is pretty solid. I used to practice reloads using wadcutters so anything less than perfect alignment wouldn't work. It made a huge difference when using round or truncated bullets in matches. I can reload an L frame faster than a K frame by about .5 seconds. If I use my one and only Jet Loader I can reload a J frame as fast as a K frame.

From a defensive standpoint, the reloads should be administrative in nature.

[Gun Nerd]

Thanks, all, for the replies.

Part of my interest is adapting par times in drills and qualification courses (typically based on twist loaders in flap pouches) to test my real world carry methods. The LCR is my gym shorts/yard work/home office gun.

I did find this Lucky Gunner piece with a few test results: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/speed-strip-revolver-reload/

For a starting point (subject to dry and live testing) I may work with 7 seconds for a 4-round reload and 9 for five.

[Oldherkpilot]

Thanks, all, for the replies.

Part of my interest is adapting par times in drills and qualification courses (typically based on twist loaders in flap pouches) to test my real world carry methods. The LCR is my gym shorts/yard work/home office gun.

I did find this Lucky Gunner piece with a few test results: https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/speed-strip-revolver-reload/

For a starting point (subject to dry and live testing) I may work with 7 seconds for a 4-round reload and 9 for five.

I have no experience with the LCR. I am used to a 5 or 6 round reload, what is the deal with the 4 round reload?

[jetfire]

jetfire would probably be able to provide some good input here.

Thanks! I break loader par times down based on equipment/location.

K/L frames/GP100s with Comp-III/Jet Loader/Speed Beez type loaders from IDPA concealment, my goal time is under 2.5 shot to shot on the reload. Same frames with moonclips and I want to be under 2.25, and really I'm hunting that sub 2.00 reload with clip guns.

With J-frames/LCRs if I'm running Speed Beez from a pouch concealed under a closed front shirt, realistically anything sub 4 seconds is pretty sporty and a good time. Twist knob loaders add another 0.5 to my par times to account for the shitty release mechanism and lack of spring tension.

Speed strips from a pocket? I actually think that 7-9 seconds is a fair window for that. I don't use speed strips, after spending a lot of time trying to get them right, I decided that I'd carry 5 rounds in a belt pouch and reload them 3x2 than fuck with speed strips.

The other option I'm going to try out in 2021 is going to be the 1911 mag with wadcutters, detailed here: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/10/18/mag-load-a-revolver-a-how-to-practice-drill/

[Gun Nerd]

I have no experience with the LCR. I am used to a 5 or 6 round reload, what is the deal with the 4 round reload?

It’s the idea that you’re better off getting 80% loaded than spending the extra couple seconds getting 100% loaded. Detailed analysis here:https://revolverguy.com/thoughts-partial-revolver-reload/

[Rex G]

While I have speed-loadered revolvers while on the clock, it has never been my clock, and I have never had the reload time told to me. HKS loaders are not as fast, but I seemed to have had a talent for them, once upon a time, and preferred the knurled metal knob, so the speed deficit seemed worth the perceived sturdiness, at least when handling the speed-loader with my right hand. The twisting direction, to release the cartridges into the cylinder, is less-ergonomic than the push-to-release type, when using my left hand.

“Speed Strips from a pocket” is not fast. That is why I have used the term “slow strips” for quite some time, and noticed that others have also used this term, so I make no claim to having been the first to say it. Caleb (jetfire) mentioned a belt pouch, being faster than speed strips, but did not specify which type, though I believe him. I have used 2x2x2 pouches on my concealment gun belt, and on my duty belt.

It is not that speed strips, or slow strips are worthless. Such a strip is VERY fast for loading two cartridges, at one time. There are moments when that is very much worth it.

Regarding keeping four rounds, rather than a full reload, in a strip, makes sense, for a couple of reasons. For some folks, handling is more-sure, especially according to those who have a pair at each end of the strip.

Speed strips also serve as a way to store and transport ammunition, in an easily-grasped manner, for administrative loading. If I have five or six cartridges in a strip, that means I have administrative loading in mind. If I have four or fewer rounds in a strip, that means I have a partial reload, perhaps for “tactical” reasons, in mind. (I have kept few as two cartridges, per strip, in special niche applications.)

[Rex G]

While I have speed-loadered revolvers while on the clock, it has never been my clock, and I have never had the reload time told to me. HKS loaders are not as fast, but I seemed to have had a talent for them, once upon a time, and preferred the knurled metal knob, so the speed deficit seemed worth the perceived sturdiness, at least when handling the speed-loader with my right hand. The twisting direction, to release the cartridges into the cylinder, is less-ergonomic than the push-to-release type, when using my left hand.



To clarify one detail, I write lefty, use a fork lefty, and use many other small tools better lefty, so it may be that preferring the knurled twist-to-release knob, on HKS loader, in my right hand, has to do with my right hand being the less-dextrous, of the two, so perhaps more in need of the knurling, while my “smarter” left hand is, perhaps, better able to “appreciate” the simpler push-to-release. I was born with my “smarter” hand on the “stronger” arm, (write lefty, throw righty) so, my experience may be unlikely to apply to anyone else.

Regardless, this sort-of-amdextrous dain bramage has helped me to be functionally ambidextrous with revolvers. I certainly claim no superiority, whatsoever, and am no kind of expert.

[Totem Polar]

I’m a bit delighted at being even remotely of the same opinion as Caleb, considering how much he shoots revolvers. I say that 3 seconds is pretty darn fast, using HKS—which I like because I’ve never had one dump rounds in my pocket during a random day out. I also think that 5 is pretty damn slow, and aim for being under 4 with consistency.

As an aside, when running wheel guns in classes with folks using autoloaders, I have found that it’s typically not that hard to keep up, and there are two reasons: one, the wider field of shooters doesn’t practice reloads a ton, and a lot of line folks in classes can’t do much better than 3 seconds with an autoloader. More interestingly though, in actual drill shooting, the G19/M&P set tend to be momentarily surprised by a slide lock back; I mean, obviously everyone knows a reload is coming at some point, but it still takes a second for folks to process that now’s the time, when the slide locks back mid-string, while thinking of other problems. With a revolver, not only do I know it’s coming, but I know when, front of mind. This goes double for 5-shot snubs; when they’re empty, it’s to the surprise of nobody. I’ve occasionally run dry at the same time as a shooter to my side, and peripherally seen them angle the gun to confirm slide lock as I’m already fishing an HKS out of the pocket, and by the time their support hand is moving to a magazine, I’m working to shake the rounds into the cylinder.

This reactionary gap is obviously not a factor any time a reload is planned. Being a revolver guy in a class full of semis means getting smoked any time a drill or qual leg is, say, “shoot six, reload, shoot six,” but otherwise, reaction time is a thing. Again, nobody is surprised when a wheelie runs dry.

There’s a place across the state line from me that allows retakes of any of their classes by alum for free, so I’ve taken their defensive handgun-1 class a bunch of times. The dude who owns the place collects quals, and each class ends with a different qual. Time comes when the final is some sort of nuclear installation guard qual that he dug up; 240 points max. The top guy shot 224, IIRC; I was second with a 204, running a 4” K, the only revolver. One of the legs was the above noted “shoot six, reload, shoot six,” from the draw, reacting to rotating targets on the range’s programable target array, in 8 seconds. Everyone got the first six, but I wasn’t even in the running on the second six, and we did it 2 times. The second time, I got a shot off right as the target started to rotate away. I figure I was down the second cylinder on both legs; at 2 points per, there’s the shots that hypothetically could have won me another T-shirt from this place, assuming that the hits were good. So, yeah, revolver reload speed is a real disadvantage, but not as big a disadvantage as failing to mitigate a reactionary gap, capacity aside in the first place.

But I digress. 3-3.5 second par.

Also, I have a 3/4 length “cover shirt” with open handwarmer pockets that is ideal with two speedloaders in the RH pocket. One speedloader means a quick fishing around for the loader; more than two means sorting one inside the pocket, but two means I put my hand in, and it always lands on a single loader. Might sound odd, but there it is.

[jetfire]

Speed strips also serve as a way to store and transport ammunition, in an easily-grasped manner, for administrative loading.

This is pretty much the reason why I still have a use for speed strips. I don't think I'm going to be doing blazing reloads on the clock with them, but rather it's a handy way to hold five rounds flat in my pocket so that if, god forbid, I have to use my wheelgun on someone, I'm not standing in a parking lot waiting for the cops with an empty gun.

[Rex G]

This is pretty much the reason why I still have a use for speed strips. I don't think I'm going to be doing blazing reloads on the clock with them, but rather it's a handy way to hold five rounds flat in my pocket so that if, god forbid, I have to use my wheelgun on someone, I'm not standing in a parking lot waiting for the cops with an empty gun.

Amen!

[AzShooter]

My times are all during matches using my Model 10 S&W with comp IIs. I always manage under 2.5 seconds and have even broken the 2 second barrier a number of times.

I've been shooting IPSC and USPSA for 40 years with revolver. I also was one of the first Master Class shooters in the International Confederation Of Revolver Enthusiast (ICORE). Using my 625 with moon clips under 2 seconds is the norm with 1.5 my goal.

HKS would cost me between 1 and 2 seconds compared to the comp IIs. Don't leave out comp IIIs. They can be modified to really release the loaded rounds quickly by trimming the base of the loader to 1/8th inch.

Someone doing it for fun and not practicing every day should be able to do a 2.5 second reload on a good one but average 2.5 to 3 seconds.

[03RN]

This is pretty much the reason why I still have a use for speed strips. I don't think I'm going to be doing blazing reloads on the clock with them, but rather it's a handy way to hold five rounds flat in my pocket so that if, god forbid, I have to use my wheelgun on someone, I'm not standing in a parking lot waiting for the cops with an empty gun.

I was once 5 for 5 on grouse while out walking around the woods. The speed strip in my watch pocket kept me loaded without messing with my speed loader.

[SCCY Marshal]

I was once 5 for 5 on grouse while out walking around the woods.

You spotted a limit of those rocket-assisted ghillie suits before the flush, let alone batted a thousand with a stumpy .357?

[03RN]

You spotted a limit of those rocket-assisted ghillie suits before the flush, let alone batted a thousand with a stumpy .357?

I get a few on the ground before they flush. The rest are in trees. And speaking of limits I take the 5 back. It was 4

[JHC]

Speedstrip from the pocket is not even worth timing . . .

Yeah my alternative was to time my 20 meter sprint ;)

[jlw]

The Indiana State Police say five seconds:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2B48FmLkys&fbclid=IwAR3-705dzSAjJoLq1l8Gz65lkJjxlHvlNMHa7WDwWz5bIDkgkkJb8s 3T9bk

[Wheeler]

The Indiana State Police say five seconds:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2B48FmLkys&fbclid=IwAR3-705dzSAjJoLq1l8Gz65lkJjxlHvlNMHa7WDwWz5bIDkgkkJb8s 3T9bk

They were probably pretty serious about the 55 MPH speed limit too... ;)