1301 with 8-pellet Flitecontrol?

[Joe Mac]

Before my recent retirement from the PD, I was involved in testing potential new duty shotguns. Our SWAT guys had already bought several 1301s for special purposes, I'd worked with them in classes, and I tested the 1301 for the larger patrol shotgun cadre. I've been instructing patrol shotgun for 20 years, but had no prior experience with the 1301.

Our duty ammo (used in 870s) is low-recoil Truball slugs as primary (LEB127 LRS), with 8-pellet Flitecontrol (LE133 00) optional. The low-recoil slugs ran beautifully in the 1301.

I *thought* the conventional interweb wisdom was that 8-pellet buck runs reliably in the 1301; it did not. No matter how experienced the shooter, it just seemed too light to cycle the action reliably. We resolved that if we did adopt the 1301, we'd change the buck load.

So.. what'd I miss? I'm thinking of buying a 1301, and wondering what I'd feed it.. Does 9-pellet LE132 run better, or is full charge buck needed? What are you guys running for buck in these guns?

Thanks

[Lon]

Before my recent retirement from the PD, I was involved in testing potential new duty shotguns. Our SWAT guys had already bought several 1301s for special purposes, I'd worked with them in classes, and I tested the 1301 for the larger patrol shotgun cadre. I've been instructing patrol shotgun for 20 years, but had no prior experience with the 1301.

Our duty ammo (used in 870s) is low-recoil Truball slugs as primary (LEB127 LRS), with 8-pellet Flitecontrol (LE133 00) optional. The low-recoil slugs ran beautifully in the 1301.

I *thought* the conventional interweb wisdom was that 8-pellet buck runs reliably in the 1301; it did not. No matter how experienced the shooter, it just seemed too light to cycle the action reliably. We resolved that if we did adopt the 1301, we'd change the buck load.

So.. what'd I miss? I'm thinking of buying a 1301, and wondering what I'd feed it.. Does 9-pellet LE132 run better, or is full charge buck needed? What are you guys running for buck in these guns?

Thanks

I know quite a few guys with the 1301s who prefer the eight pellet. Tom Givens for one.

[Tom Givens]

I only own one 1301, but it runs superbly with 8 pellet low recoil Flite Control. I have seen numerous students run same in class. No issues.

Maybe you had an underpowered lot?

[Coyotesfan97]

I’ve been running eight pellet FC #1 buck through my 1301 without any issues.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Last weekend, in a class, I demo'd 8 pellet Winchester Ranger low recoil, 8 pellet Hornady light magnum versi-tite, and old 9pellet Fed LE132. Ran them through my 1301 (A zone), and two different Vang'd 870s - circa '94 (head) and circa '02 (C/D zone). All at 10 yards since we were from a home defense premise.

Top target - Hornady 8 pellet in the upper A zone;

Bottom left target - Fed 9 pellet LE132 in the low A zone;

Bottom right target - Winchester Range 8 pellet in the upper A zone;

64560

[ssb]

It’s not exhaustive, but my recently acquired 1301 Tac digested 65 rounds of LE133 or its Speer Lawman equivalent, 5 rounds of Remington low recoil 8 pellet, 5 rounds of Remington low recoil slugs, and a bunch of low brass, 3.5 dram birdshot. No sign of an issue yet.

[GearFondler]

I’ve been running eight pellet FC #1 buck through my 1301 without any issues.FC #1 is 15 pellets... It's what I use I'm my 1301T.
That said, I also have 8 and 9 pellet FC 00 that also run great in mine.

[Joe Mac]

I only own one 1301, but it runs superbly with 8 pellet low recoil Flite Control. I have seen numerous students run same in class. No issues.

Maybe you had an underpowered lot?

Thanks for all the input, guys.

Tom, that's an interesting point, now that I think of it. Whenever we'd load ammo cans for a class, we'd tear off a box flap and put it in the bottom of the can, so if there's a problem with the ammo the lot can be identified. (I dunno how many different lots are in the armory at a given time, but certainly several...). In April we ran a 5-day patrol shotgun school, and a few SWAT guys came through for familiarization with their new 1301s. Problems cycling the 8-pellet buck cropped up early on. But in this case, as semi-auto shotguns in the past have not played well with low-recoil buck, we didn't think much of it and didn't check lot numbers.

Throughout the spring, during in-service shotgun classes, we tested a gun Beretta had sent us. I was still curious about running it with 8-pellet, and did so during each class. Some days I couldn't get through a mag tube; other days I'd sail through dozens of rounds without an issue. It could well be that one of the lots we were drawing from was slightly underpowered. (We didn't notice any difference in recoil from 870s.)

[Joe Mac]

If I can't resist the itch, I don't think this will dissuade me from buying a 1301... I have stashes of 8 and 9 pellet 00, as well as some 15 pellet #1, although I do have more 8-pellet than the others combined, as I prefer it.

[GearFondler]

If I can't resist the itch, I don't think this will dissuade me from buying a 1301... I have stashes of 8 and 9 pellet 00, as well as some 15 pellet #1, although I do have more 8-pellet than the others combined, as I prefer it.There's a bazillion post thread here on the 1301 that's been ongoing since its debut and you won't find anything in there about 8p FC 00 causing issues. I realize that is not exactly scientific data but it's hard for me to believe that with all the contributors over the years this would go unnoticed if it was a problem. For what that's worth.

[Balisong]

Last weekend, in a class, I demo'd 8 pellet Winchester Ranger low recoil, 8 pellet Hornady light magnum versi-tite, and old 9pellet Fed LE132. Ran them through my 1301 (A zone), and two different Vang'd 870s - circa '94 (head) and circa '02 (C/D zone). All at 10 yards since we were from a home defense premise.

Top target - Hornady 8 pellet in the upper A zone;

Bottom left target - Fed 9 pellet LE132 in the low A zone;

Bottom right target - Winchester Range 8 pellet in the upper A zone;

64560

Thanks for sharing those patterns. I'm surprised the versatite wad load wasn't a little tighter for 10 yards

[SeriousStudent]

My 1301T gobbles up 8-pellet Reduced Recoil 00 Flite Control with the same speed and intensity as Rosie O'Donnell mowing down a Chinese buffet.

I have never seen it fail to function with that load.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Thanks for sharing those patterns. I'm surprised the versatite wad load wasn't a little tighter for 10 yards

You're welcome, sir.

It was within my palm & I don't have big hands - but, you're right, it's not as tight as the old Vang gun. The was Hornady's 1400fps version. I'm happy with its performance out of the gun.

[HCM]

Before my recent retirement from the PD, I was involved in testing potential new duty shotguns. Our SWAT guys had already bought several 1301s for special purposes, I'd worked with them in classes, and I tested the 1301 for the larger patrol shotgun cadre. I've been instructing patrol shotgun for 20 years, but had no prior experience with the 1301.

Our duty ammo (used in 870s) is low-recoil Truball slugs as primary (LEB127 LRS), with 8-pellet Flitecontrol (LE133 00) optional. The low-recoil slugs ran beautifully in the 1301.

I *thought* the conventional interweb wisdom was that 8-pellet buck runs reliably in the 1301; it did not. No matter how experienced the shooter, it just seemed too light to cycle the action reliably. We resolved that if we did adopt the 1301, we'd change the buck load.

So.. what'd I miss? I'm thinking of buying a 1301, and wondering what I'd feed it.. Does 9-pellet LE132 run better, or is full charge buck needed? What are you guys running for buck in these guns?

Thanks

surprised none of y'all have thrown up the bat signal..

@e-stern

[Joe Mac]

There's a bazillion post thread here on the 1301 that's been ongoing since its debut and you won't find anything in there about 8p FC 00 causing issues. I realize that is not exactly scientific data but it's hard for me to believe that with all the contributors over the years this would go unnoticed if it was a problem. For what that's worth.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm thinking.. Just a bit unnerving that if we did have a weak lot of 8-pellet, it caused problems in four different 1301s, while not being feeble enough to notice any difference in the 870s.

[ssb]

I suppose this begs a question: how much is enough vetting for a semi auto shotgun?

My first outing I put an uncomfortable amount of money downrange with Flitecontrol buck. I also worked out a “deal” for 150 rounds of LE133 to augment what I had at home, but that was $2/round (I’m pretty sure the last time I bought it I paid about .80/rd). I had no issues, but in the current climate I don’t know that I’m super comfortable burning more LE133 - I want a stash for rotation and class use, and I don’t know how easy it’ll be to replace what I have. Is it enough to run similarly-powered birdshot after an initial batch of my HD buck?

[blues]

This thread is weakening my resolve that I don't need this shotgun...

Thanks for nothing, fellas. ;)

[SWAT Lt.]

I don't have a huge round count, maybe 500-ish, but mine runs anything I stick in it. I have run birdshot, reduced recoil and full power slugs, and reduced recoil (including LE133), standard and magnum buckshot. The 1301T is the best shotgun I have ever owned and has replaced my 870P for my shotgun defensive needs.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

This thread is weakening my resolve that I don't need this shotgun...

Thanks for nothing, fellas. ;)

Look @ it this way @ least you won't be checking the battery gage every few weeks ........... just saying.

[Balisong]

This thread is weakening my resolve that I don't need this shotgun...

Thanks for nothing, fellas. ;)

I caved last month, put the deposit down on one of the next batch of LTT's coming in....

[Clusterfrack]

I don't have a huge round count, maybe 500-ish, but mine runs anything I stick in it. I have run birdshot, reduced recoil and full power slugs, and reduced recoil (including LE133), standard and magnum buckshot. The 1301T is the best shotgun I have ever owned...

My experience is the same as SWAT Lt.'s. Unlike the FN SLP I recently sold, the 1301 has been 100% reliable out of the box, with loads ranging from light birdshot and reduced recoil slugs and buck, to full-power and short magnums. Best shotgun ever.

[blues]

I caved last month, put the deposit down on one of the next batch of LTT's coming in....

If you don't mind saying, where and how much was the damage? (Or you can respond via PM if you prefer.)

My 870 doesn't get out much so I'm trying to realistically assess the need going forward...but as I say, I've got a foot on slippery ground.

[GearFondler]

If you don't mind saying, where and how much was the damage? (Or you can respond via PM if you prefer.)

My 870 doesn't get out much so I'm trying to realistically assess the need going forward...but as I say, I've got a foot on slippery ground.The prices are listed on the LTT site...

https://www.langdontactical.com/ltt-1301-shotgun-preorder/

It looks expensive at first glance, but if you part out all the accessories yourself you won't save much if any and add the hassle of tracking it all down yourself.

[Clusterfrack]

The prices are listed on the LTT site...

https://www.langdontactical.com/ltt-1301-shotgun-preorder/

It looks expensive at first glance, but if you part out all the accessories yourself you won't save much if any and add the hassle of tracking it all down yourself.

Yep. I spent slightly more on my build, especially after sending the trigger group to Briley for USA parts.

[GearFondler]

Yep. I spent slightly more on my build, especially after sending the trigger group to Briley for USA parts.Nice! I've seen that option from them but couldn't convince myself the juice was worth the squeeze, aside from the additional USA parts for 922R.
Is the upgrade actually noticeable enough to justify the expense?

My build is everything LTT does and I did get mine done for probably a bit cheaper, but it took months to find everything and I only saved by getting some of it on sale. But this was before LTT even offered the package so I had no choice.

[Balisong]

The prices are listed on the LTT site...

https://www.langdontactical.com/ltt-1301-shotgun-preorder/

It looks expensive at first glance, but if you part out all the accessories yourself you won't save much if any and add the hassle of tracking it all down yourself.

Exactly. I'm not especially handy or patient, so I hit the easy button on this one. I particularly like that EL has letters from the ATF regarding parts counts and such, so I figure I'll be GTG legally speaking. And this will be an HD shotgun so that's extra important to me.

ETA: I've always wanted a Benelli M4, and still do, but this decked out LTT 1301 is the same price as a base M4. And then you have to buy the 922 shit to make the M4 have the proper capacity. On top of that, as much as I like the Benelli stock quality, its well known that the LOP is significantly longer than ideal for most people, including me. The clincher was when someone (sorry I don't remember who) posted their pic of a SBS M4 next to a 1301T, and they were basically the same length.
So here I am, waiting for a 1301. Down the road if I have play money I'll get an M4 for S&Gs, assuming our new overlord allows such things.

[Clusterfrack]

Is the upgrade actually noticeable enough to justify the expense? No. Not for a defense gun. I asked them to make the trigger pull as heavy and long as they could, so that's not an issue. But it was expensive and took a really long time. I would NOT have done it except for 922r.

On the other hand, it's an amazingly crisp trigger. And it's gold. #bling (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=bling) !


Nice! I've seen that option from them but couldn't convince myself the juice was worth the squeeze, aside from the additional USA parts for 922R.
Is the upgrade actually noticeable enough to justify the expense?

My build is everything LTT does and I did get mine done for probably a bit cheaper, but it took months to find everything and I only saved by getting some of it on sale. But this was before LTT even offered the package so I had no choice.

[GearFondler]

ETA: I've always wanted a Benelli M4, and still do, but this decked out LTT 1301 is the same price as a base M4. And then you have to buy the 922 shit to make the M4 have the proper capacity. On top of that, as much as I like the Benelli stock quality, its well known that the LOP is significantly longer than ideal for most people, including me. The clincher was when someone (sorry I don't remember who) posted their pic of a SBS M4 next to a 1301T, and they were basically the same length.
So here I am, waiting for a 1301. Down the road if I have play money I'll get an M4 for S&Gs, assuming our new overlord allows such things.

My son has an M4 so I can do a comparison...

These are both set up in a very similar configuration: 7rd tubes, 6rd side saddles, RMR mounts, WML's.
My 1301 as shown, 7 +1 loaded = 9lbs 2oz.
The M4 as shown, 7 +1 loaded = 10lbs 3oz.

AOL is as follows:

1301T is 37.25 inches w/ 12.125" LOP

M4 fully collapsed is 35 inches w/ 9.25" LOP
Mid-position is 38 inches w/ 12.25" LOP
Fully extended is 40 inches w/ 14.25" LOP

Camera pics tend to distort perspective but here's the M4 stock positions against the 1301T for what it's worth.
In my opinion the mid-position on the M4 stock makes any size difference a wash. Where the issues arise is with the weight and ergonomic differences... The Magpul SGA stock feels much better to me than the slightly awkward pistol grip of the M4 and the extra pound of weight is very noticeable. Plus building the 1301T will most certainly cost you less than blinging-out the M4.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/9311a992cdeb328012ec83a3431268b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/fdabc8a41a307278a997ac945678bbe8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/b3368c8281061ad8190844d80a142b0f.jpg

[GyroF-16]

Exactly. I'm not especially handy or patient, so I hit the easy button on this one. I particularly like that EL has letters from the ATF regarding parts counts and such, so I figure I'll be GTG legally speaking. And this will be an HD shotgun so that's extra important to me.


I hadn’t heard of this letter. My “assembled at home” version (before LTT was offering them) has the same stuff other than the CROM rear sight. I’d be very interested to see that letter to see if my gun checks the same boxes.

[Balisong]

My son has an M4 so I can do a comparison...

These are both set up in a very similar configuration: 7rd tubes, 6rd side saddles, RMR mounts, WML's.
My 1301 as shown, 7 +1 loaded = 9lbs 2oz.
The M4 as shown, 7 +1 loaded = 10lbs 3oz.

AOL is as follows:

1301T is 37.25 inches w/ 12.125" LOP

M4 fully collapsed is 35 inches w/ 9.25" LOP
Mid-position is 38 inches w/ 12.25" LOP
Fully extended is 40 inches w/ 14.25" LOP

Camera pics tend to distort perspective but here's the M4 stock positions against the 1301T for what it's worth.
In my opinion the mid-position on the M4 stock makes any size difference a wash. Where the issues arise is with the weight and ergonomic differences... The Magpul SGA stock feels much better to me than the slightly awkward pistol grip of the M4 and the extra pound of weight is very noticeable. Plus building the 1301T will most certainly cost you less than blinging-out the M4.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/9311a992cdeb328012ec83a3431268b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/fdabc8a41a307278a997ac945678bbe8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/b3368c8281061ad8190844d80a142b0f.jpg

That is a fantastic batch of info and pics, thank you! In my previous post the SBS M4 vs 1301 pic I was referring to had the M4 with the "normal" pistol grip stock. I don't believe I was aware that the collapsible stock actually had a mid point. It was in my mind it was either fully extended or collapsed all the way. That definitely cements my wantsies of an M4 eventually, but unfortunately means I'll have to jump through the hoops to have that stock, along with all the extra cash for the stock on top of everything else. Last I looked they were $400+ just for the stock itself. In either case, both awesome guns, I'm very envious.

[Balisong]

I hadn’t heard of this letter. My “assembled at home” version (before LTT was offering them) has the same stuff other than the CROM rear sight. I’d be very interested to see that letter to see if my gun checks the same boxes.

Its been a while since I saw that particular post, but he didn't post the letter itself. I *THINK* he just said the letter addressed the number of imported parts and I think EL took it from there (somewhere in the LTT 1301thread).

[GearFondler]

That is a fantastic batch of info and pics, thank you! In my previous post the SBS M4 vs 1301 pic I was referring to had the M4 with the "normal" pistol grip stock. I don't believe I was aware that the collapsible stock actually had a mid point. It was in my mind it was either fully extended or collapsed all the way. That definitely cements my wantsies of an M4 eventually, but unfortunately means I'll have to jump through the hoops to have that stock, along with all the extra cash for the stock on top of everything else. Last I looked they were $400+ just for the stock itself. In either case, both awesome guns, I'm very envious.This M4 was a Law Enforcement version which came with that stock, 7rd tube and threaded for chokes. I don't believe the Mil version of this stock has the midpoint position but don't quote me.

[Balisong]

This M4 was a Law Enforcement version which came with that stock, 7rd tube and threaded for chokes. I don't believe the Mil version of this stock has the midpoint position but don't quote me.

Roger that. That would explain how it got into my head that it was an "all or nothing" stock. But having a midpoint seems like it would fix the most common criticism of the M4- the LOP. In any case, thanks for costing me a few thousand bucks sometime down the road :cool:

[blues]

I'm leaving this thread now before any more mental or emotional trauma is experienced...and before any financial trauma follows.

[Balisong]

I'm leaving this thread now before any more mental or emotional trauma is experienced...and before any financial trauma follows.

Just accept the fact that you've been assimilated. Hit "add to cart", close your eyes and find your happy place while nature does its thing.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I'm leaving this thread now before any more mental or emotional trauma is experienced...and before any financial trauma follows.

No doubt, couple what ya already endured w/ the batt. charger & now to shell out a few real coins for a decent boom stick ........ says the guy that has/had two 1301's sim to the LTT's & may add another.

[blues]

No doubt, couple what ya already endured w/ the batt. charger & now to shell out a few real coins for a decent boom stick ........ says the guy that has/had two 1301's sim to the LTT's & may add another.

And all I have is an 870 with a Magpul stock and a Surefire forend...

I'll shoot you my address so you can send one before the holidays.

Of course, I'll have to get rid of at least one of my seven total firearms...I mean, who needs more than a shotgun?

(I learned that from Uncle Joe. Hey wait a minute...if you can't rack it, how're you supposed to scare the bad guys off?)

[GearFondler]

(I learned that from Uncle Joe. Hey wait a minute...if you can't rack it, how're you supposed to scare the bad guys off?)

Since you're still in here... Charging one from the lifter still sounds pretty bad ass.

[Doc_Glock]

My experience is the same as @SWAT Lt. (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=8436)'s. Unlike the FN SLP I recently sold, the 1301 has been 100% reliable out of the box, with loads ranging from light birdshot and reduced recoil slugs and buck, to full-power and short magnums. Best shotgun ever.

Also concur: maybe 550 rounds through two 1301s and they are remarkably reliable. As in zero problems with any ammo I have fed them: buck, bird, slugs.

[LHS]

I've seen one 1301T that was borderline with 8-pellet FC. It would choke when run from the CQB/short-stock position, but would run reliably when shouldered conventionally. It was brand new out of the box, and may have needed some break-in with some full-power buck, or perhaps something was wrong with it, I don't know. Others have seemed to run fine with it. Regardless, it goes to show that you need to test your gun with your chosen duty/defensive ammo, not only for patterning, but for function (especially with a self-loader).

[TCinVA]

I've seen one 1301T that was borderline with 8-pellet FC. It would choke when run from the CQB/short-stock position, but would run reliably when shouldered conventionally. It was brand new out of the box, and may have needed some break-in with some full-power buck, or perhaps something was wrong with it, I don't know. Others have seemed to run fine with it. Regardless, it goes to show that you need to test your
gun with your chosen duty/defensive ammo, not only for patterning, but for function (especially with a self-loader).

Breakin would be my guess. I've personally fired about a case of 00 8 pellet low-recoil FFC through my 1301 shotguns with no issues...but I didn't shoot flight control through them until after I'd fired a couple of hundred rounds of birdshot through them. Given my penchant for practicing with heavy birdshot loads, the springs saw some significant breakin prior to patterning them with FFC.

Definitely need to look into the ammunition (including how it was stored...shotgun shells can be more sensitive to temperature/humidity than metallic cartridges) and if that checks out contact Beretta and have them look at the guns.

It would also be worthwhile to go burn a case of birdshot through each of them and then try shooting the low recoil buckshot again.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I'm leaving this thread now before any more mental or emotional trauma is experienced...and before any financial trauma follows.

The only thing keeping me from doing financially irresponsible things is the fact that I possess an HK-marked M1S90.

[GearFondler]

The only thing keeping me from doing financially irresponsible things is the fact that I possess an HK-marked M1S90.One is none... How you gonna dual-wield without a second one?

[MDFA]

[QUOTE=blues;1155311]And all I have is an 870 with a Magpul stock and a Surefire forend...

I'll shoot you my address so you can send one before the holidays.

Of course, I'll have to get rid of at least one of my seven total firearms...I mean, who needs more than a shotgun?

(I learned that from Uncle Joe. Hey wait a minute...if you can't rack it, how're you supposed to scare the bad guys off?)[/QUOT

A shell chambering in my M2 sounds pretty badass. Then again I've had suspects who were impressed by the sound of a pump gage racking, and suspects who were not impressed...

Didn't Uncle Joe say to shoot thru the door....

[MDFA]

The only thing keeping me from doing financially irresponsible things is the fact that I possess an HK-marked M1S90.

I traded the one I had for God Only Knows What, hence my recent M2 purchase....

[Doc_Glock]

I finally got to shoot a few boxes of 8 pellet Flite Control through my 1301 and was extremely surprised and pleased at how mellow this load is. Felt like birdshot almost.

[jeep45238]

I haven't been able to get my grubby hands on Federal ammo, but I was able to grab 30 rounds of Hornady's 8 pellet setup before word got out that the store had them.

At 10 yards all 8 pellets are in the dome from my 1301. At 20, all in the chest box. It's convenient that my reticle acts as a range estimator as well - if the head fills the reticle, send it, if the B zone fills it, send it, slugs beyond that if possible (50 yards zero, hornady 1oz reduced recoil).

I really, really want to try #1, and if the patterning is consistent with what I've seen in videos, I would do some things to some people that they may or may not enjoy for a case of it :o

[delphidoc]

You may have said this earlier in the thread but I don't remember. What optics are you using on your 1301?



I haven't been able to get my grubby hands on Federal ammo, but I was able to grab 30 rounds of Hornady's 8 pellet setup before word got out that the store had them.

At 10 yards all 8 pellets are in the dome from my 1301. At 20, all in the chest box. It's convenient that my reticle acts as a range estimator as well - if the head fills the reticle, send it, if the B zone fills it, send it, slugs beyond that if possible (50 yards zero, hornady 1oz reduced recoil).

I really, really want to try #1, and if the patterning is consistent with what I've seen in videos, I would do some things to some people that they may or may not enjoy for a case of it :o

[jeep45238]

You may have said this earlier in the thread but I don't remember. What optics are you using on your 1301?

https://holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/137.html