Thn9mm
12-12-2020, 02:49 PM
FIRST, THE PISTOLS
Background: I am an intermediate level shooter and new to 1911/2011 platforms, having used modified Glocks for carry (civilian) and training. I have both the PD and C2D in the newer 2020 versions. Both have the X300U-B WML and Trijicon RMR09 optics.
BOTTOM LINE: The PD is the superior option and worth the $2500. The C2D is much less gun for the same price and its only advantage is that it is slightly easier to conceal.
I purchased the P Duo first, and it is the newer 2020 model with the 4.4 inch barrel. Shooting the PD is pure pleasure. It is soft recoiling and easy tracking and ergonomics are excellent. I like the weight as it feels substantial. The grip is a little large for me (I wear size small gloves) and I cannot reach the magazine release without shifting my grip. The frame to slide fit is butter smooth. It is silly to admit but there is a tinge of satisfaction every time I rack the slide. At 4.5 lbs, the trigger is not heavy, especially given the short trigger pull and straight back mechanism of 1911/2011s. I like everything about it except for wishing the grip was smaller. Accuracy is superb with the 4.4 inch barrel and crisp trigger. Shooting the PD and getting 100-yard hits on steel is effortless. I am able to conceal the PD well in a LAS concealment SAYA 2.0 holster. The PD also fits in my Tier-1 concealment holster for an M&P, and my T-Rex Arms Ragnarok holster for M&P. I recently purchased an aftermarket grip for the PD from Darkside Precision. It is a Gen 1 STI grip, stippled, slightly reduced in circumference and mainspring housing, and in OD Green. The new grip is definitely more ergonomic to my smaller hands and the stippling is aggressive. Aesthetically, the OD Green contrasting with the black nitride slide looks great to me.
I liked the PD so much that I thought a smaller C2 version would be even better. Not really.
Shooting: the C2D has a harsher recoil than the PD. It is also harsher than my Glock 19 with a ZEV compensator. I expected more recoil from the C2D, given that it is lighter, has an aluminum frame, and shorter barrel length. However, I did not expect it to be more than my compensated Glock (The PD has a similar recoil impulse to my compensated Glock).
Ergonomics/Concealment: The C2D grip is slightly more suitable for smaller hands and it is easier to conceal given its shorter grip length.
Slide-Frame Fit: There is definitely more grittiness when the slide racks on the C2D. It still is superior to the slide-frame fit of a polymer pistol, but that glowing satisfaction when you rack the slide (present with the PD) just isn’t there on the C2D.
Quality Control: My C2D had to be sent back to Staccato after a couple weeks because the right-side safety lever could not depress all the way when activated. Staccato took care of it and it is working well now. I have had no issues with the PD.
In summary, if you have $5000 to spend on two Staccatos, then I would recommend getting two PDs rather than one PD and one C2D. I have no problems concealing the PD so the C2D has no major advantage for me. If Staccato priced the C2D $700 lower then perhaps it would be worthwhile.
SECOND, the MAGAZINES
STI magazines generation 1 have a history of unpredictable reliability. Gen2 mags are now more reliable. My two pistols came with Gen 2 Black Teflon coated mags and they have worked flawlessly so far. I ordered six extra Gen2 mags from Dawson Precision that were stainless steel and four of the six had issues. The four had weak springs. The slide would not lock fully when racked back on an empty slide. The slide lock lever would partially engage but not fully, which resulted in premature slide release.
The faulty mags were sent back to Staccato and they replaced the springs, and did something to the followers so that now these mags fully engage the slide lock lever. Staccato also sent me six extra springs and followers. These mags have worked well since.
I have not shot thousands of rounds due to the ammo shortage but so far, they have worked well. It appears that Gen2 mags (at least the ones I purchased) still have some issues based on my sample. The Black ones that I have seem to be very reliable.
FINALLY, the GRIP MODULES
Bottom Line Regarding OEM Grip Modules on the new 2020 Staccato pistols: The OEM grips are good to go as long as 1) you do not have smaller hands (me, size small gloves), 2) do not have sweaty hands, and 3) do not prefer more aggressive texturing.
I tried the OEM grips for two months and decided to explore a grip reduction (my smaller hands), and a more aggressive texture. In truth, if the grips were smaller to begin with, I may have not pursued the grip texture. I looked at two companies: Extreme Shooters (ES) (Extreme Shooters | 2011 STI Gun Grips) and Darkside Precision (DP) ( STI/Staccato 2011 Stippling Service - Dark Side Precision). From the photos of both websites, the DP aesthetics and attention to details seemed superior to ES, as is their price. I was still hesitant in sending my OEM grips because I was not sure how it would turn out. I chose the option of buying from DP their 2011 Gen1 grip with their EDC texturing, to see if I would like their workmanship. If I liked it, then I would keep the Gen1 grip on my Staccato and reserve the OEM Gen 2 grips as spares.
This link (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au2TiH-xDagAguAjo8zrmGwbDd5i5Q?e=DYw6os ) has photos of the Gen1 grips with EDC texturing from DP. The quality is exquisite and texturing is definitely more aggressive (I like it!). The grip reduction was also conforming to my small hands. Mission accomplished.
This link (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au2TiH-xDagAgt9-vpce-qi3bGQ9-Q?e=FVjzJG )has photos of my P-Duo with the 1) OEM grip, 2) the Gen 1 OD Green grip, and 3) my C2-Duo with the OEM grip sent off to DP for the grip reduction and stippling service. If you want to keep the star on your Staccato during the stippling, it is $50 extra. I eventually also sent my OEM grip on the P-Duo off to DP and replaced the OD green grip with the modified OEM grip when it came back. The OD Green Gen 1 grip left a 1.5 mm gap between the back of the polymer trigger shoe and the frame. Functionally it did not seem to be a problem but I was worried that dirt and debris can potentially get into the trigger housing. The turnaround time from DP was about 10 days.
If you have smaller hands, or sweaty hands, or simply want a more aggressive texture, then I would recommend the stippling service with DP. It will be more expensive than ES but the better craftsmanship is worth it. Save yourself some money and don’t bother getting the Gen1 grip to try out. Just send your OEM grip and wait 10 days.
I hope this post helps someone on their journey into Staccato pistols.
Background: I am an intermediate level shooter and new to 1911/2011 platforms, having used modified Glocks for carry (civilian) and training. I have both the PD and C2D in the newer 2020 versions. Both have the X300U-B WML and Trijicon RMR09 optics.
BOTTOM LINE: The PD is the superior option and worth the $2500. The C2D is much less gun for the same price and its only advantage is that it is slightly easier to conceal.
I purchased the P Duo first, and it is the newer 2020 model with the 4.4 inch barrel. Shooting the PD is pure pleasure. It is soft recoiling and easy tracking and ergonomics are excellent. I like the weight as it feels substantial. The grip is a little large for me (I wear size small gloves) and I cannot reach the magazine release without shifting my grip. The frame to slide fit is butter smooth. It is silly to admit but there is a tinge of satisfaction every time I rack the slide. At 4.5 lbs, the trigger is not heavy, especially given the short trigger pull and straight back mechanism of 1911/2011s. I like everything about it except for wishing the grip was smaller. Accuracy is superb with the 4.4 inch barrel and crisp trigger. Shooting the PD and getting 100-yard hits on steel is effortless. I am able to conceal the PD well in a LAS concealment SAYA 2.0 holster. The PD also fits in my Tier-1 concealment holster for an M&P, and my T-Rex Arms Ragnarok holster for M&P. I recently purchased an aftermarket grip for the PD from Darkside Precision. It is a Gen 1 STI grip, stippled, slightly reduced in circumference and mainspring housing, and in OD Green. The new grip is definitely more ergonomic to my smaller hands and the stippling is aggressive. Aesthetically, the OD Green contrasting with the black nitride slide looks great to me.
I liked the PD so much that I thought a smaller C2 version would be even better. Not really.
Shooting: the C2D has a harsher recoil than the PD. It is also harsher than my Glock 19 with a ZEV compensator. I expected more recoil from the C2D, given that it is lighter, has an aluminum frame, and shorter barrel length. However, I did not expect it to be more than my compensated Glock (The PD has a similar recoil impulse to my compensated Glock).
Ergonomics/Concealment: The C2D grip is slightly more suitable for smaller hands and it is easier to conceal given its shorter grip length.
Slide-Frame Fit: There is definitely more grittiness when the slide racks on the C2D. It still is superior to the slide-frame fit of a polymer pistol, but that glowing satisfaction when you rack the slide (present with the PD) just isn’t there on the C2D.
Quality Control: My C2D had to be sent back to Staccato after a couple weeks because the right-side safety lever could not depress all the way when activated. Staccato took care of it and it is working well now. I have had no issues with the PD.
In summary, if you have $5000 to spend on two Staccatos, then I would recommend getting two PDs rather than one PD and one C2D. I have no problems concealing the PD so the C2D has no major advantage for me. If Staccato priced the C2D $700 lower then perhaps it would be worthwhile.
SECOND, the MAGAZINES
STI magazines generation 1 have a history of unpredictable reliability. Gen2 mags are now more reliable. My two pistols came with Gen 2 Black Teflon coated mags and they have worked flawlessly so far. I ordered six extra Gen2 mags from Dawson Precision that were stainless steel and four of the six had issues. The four had weak springs. The slide would not lock fully when racked back on an empty slide. The slide lock lever would partially engage but not fully, which resulted in premature slide release.
The faulty mags were sent back to Staccato and they replaced the springs, and did something to the followers so that now these mags fully engage the slide lock lever. Staccato also sent me six extra springs and followers. These mags have worked well since.
I have not shot thousands of rounds due to the ammo shortage but so far, they have worked well. It appears that Gen2 mags (at least the ones I purchased) still have some issues based on my sample. The Black ones that I have seem to be very reliable.
FINALLY, the GRIP MODULES
Bottom Line Regarding OEM Grip Modules on the new 2020 Staccato pistols: The OEM grips are good to go as long as 1) you do not have smaller hands (me, size small gloves), 2) do not have sweaty hands, and 3) do not prefer more aggressive texturing.
I tried the OEM grips for two months and decided to explore a grip reduction (my smaller hands), and a more aggressive texture. In truth, if the grips were smaller to begin with, I may have not pursued the grip texture. I looked at two companies: Extreme Shooters (ES) (Extreme Shooters | 2011 STI Gun Grips) and Darkside Precision (DP) ( STI/Staccato 2011 Stippling Service - Dark Side Precision). From the photos of both websites, the DP aesthetics and attention to details seemed superior to ES, as is their price. I was still hesitant in sending my OEM grips because I was not sure how it would turn out. I chose the option of buying from DP their 2011 Gen1 grip with their EDC texturing, to see if I would like their workmanship. If I liked it, then I would keep the Gen1 grip on my Staccato and reserve the OEM Gen 2 grips as spares.
This link (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au2TiH-xDagAguAjo8zrmGwbDd5i5Q?e=DYw6os ) has photos of the Gen1 grips with EDC texturing from DP. The quality is exquisite and texturing is definitely more aggressive (I like it!). The grip reduction was also conforming to my small hands. Mission accomplished.
This link (https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au2TiH-xDagAgt9-vpce-qi3bGQ9-Q?e=FVjzJG )has photos of my P-Duo with the 1) OEM grip, 2) the Gen 1 OD Green grip, and 3) my C2-Duo with the OEM grip sent off to DP for the grip reduction and stippling service. If you want to keep the star on your Staccato during the stippling, it is $50 extra. I eventually also sent my OEM grip on the P-Duo off to DP and replaced the OD green grip with the modified OEM grip when it came back. The OD Green Gen 1 grip left a 1.5 mm gap between the back of the polymer trigger shoe and the frame. Functionally it did not seem to be a problem but I was worried that dirt and debris can potentially get into the trigger housing. The turnaround time from DP was about 10 days.
If you have smaller hands, or sweaty hands, or simply want a more aggressive texture, then I would recommend the stippling service with DP. It will be more expensive than ES but the better craftsmanship is worth it. Save yourself some money and don’t bother getting the Gen1 grip to try out. Just send your OEM grip and wait 10 days.
I hope this post helps someone on their journey into Staccato pistols.