RFI: reliability and safety of Sharkbite plumbing fittings

[HeavyDuty]

This is a spin-off from the water heater pressure relief valve thread - I already resolved that, and am now trying to deal with other plumbing issues at my new place in NH that has high water pressure from the utility.

I have copper water pipe.

I want to install a new quarter turn main shutoff valve on the house side of the meter/backflow preventer replacing an older gate valve. I also want to stick a pressure regulator in there to take my static pressure down from 80 - 100 PSI to something more reasonable.

A second project is water heater related - the cold water shutoff gate valve appears to have a broken stem, it just spins.

There are all sorts of plumbing parts now with Sharkbite including shutoff valves and pressure regulators. I just remembered I used a Sharkbite freezeproof outside spigot in the dog run about 10-15 years ago and never had problems besides how it spins unless you anchor it. If I used Sharkbite I could install a new shutoff and pressure regulator in about a half hour, and probably about the same for the water heater feed valve since it’s a little space restricted.

I can sweat, but it’s far from my favorite thing in the world. If I sweat I’d want to pick up supplies and practice on scraps first to get some skills back before I cut into the house lines.

What’s the common thinking about using Sharkbite on copper? Are they safe (meaning no Ark imitations) and reliable?

This is what I’m working with. The utility comes in at the bottom of the pic, they are responsible for everything to the top of the backflow preventer (the squarish thing above the meter horn.) I’d be cutting in the replacement shutoff where the exiting house side shutoff is located (the top valve) and the new pressure regulator right above that.

64077

[BN]

I've used Sharkbite straight line to fix pin holes in my copper water lines. They seem to work OK. Easy to use and no leaks.

I ended up re-plumbing the whole house with whatever the latest and best plastic is. :)

[LittleLebowski]

Rock solid for years in my experience. The maintenance guys at my federal office building have switched to Sharkbite and report no issues and a lot of time saved.

[mark7]

I used sharkbites on copper on about a half dozen joints/shut offs in my rental property a decade ago- been good to go since. I've used them around the house on pex pipe with similar results.

64081

[HeavyDuty]

Should I have any concerns about using Sharkbite on the higher pressure side of the system - which may spike to 120 PSI? I know spec is 200 PSI max, but...

I support the trades, but the estimate I got to do this work was insane. Sharkbite would make doing it myself much easier.

[MickAK]

Should I have any concerns about using Sharkbite on the higher pressure side of the system - which may spike to 120 PSI? I know spec is 200 PSI max, but...

I support the trades, but the estimate I got to do this work was insane. Sharkbite would make doing it myself much easier.

I looked into this a few months back as I had some plumbing to do and a Sharkbite was going to make it much easier as I lacked access to get a torch and solder in.

They are not code in a few places (Chicago that I know of) and there are some people that don't like the idea of their use because over time the o-ring could degrade and cause a failure behind a wall. Their view is that if you do a plumbing job, you should do it so that it can last 50-60 years, because otherwise you are just giving someone else a potential catastrophe.

As much as I can tell, that's bunk. Seals of that material regularly last 30 years in old cars where they are subject to much more extreme conditions. What can and does happen is they don't get installed correctly. A very slight nick on an o-ring might not leak initially but over time, expansion and contraction with heating and cooling a small leak can start up and erode material which makes for a failure. So I used them, but I was very careful that everything was clean, inserted fully and straight, and that there was no tension on the joint. If you do that I think you'll be good.

[eb07]

I used sharkbites on copper pipe in my 1978 home when I couldn't solder on without tearing out drywall. going on 5 years with no issues and the water here is terrible. High calcium tears everything up.

[HeavyDuty]

Ok, based on the responses I think I’m safe - none of this will be inside walls so is able to be inspected. I noticed they offer “slip” versions of many items so you can insert them without flexing existing piping runs. They offer several Cash Acme pressure regulators with Sharkbite fittings, including models with metal caps (most of the big box ones are plastic cap.)

I’ll get stuff ordered so when I’m home again in a few weeks I can rock and roll.

Thanks, all!

[lwt16]

I have used Sharkbite fittings and had good luck. I did buy the Sharkbite tool that de-burrs the outside of the copper pipe to prevent it damaging the seals. It's a cheap tool and they sell it near the fittings.

There's also a removal tool that they sell. Make sure you get the correct size you are working with.

Regards.

[HeavyDuty]

I have used Sharkbite fittings and had good luck. I did buy the Sharkbite tool that de-burrs the outside of the copper pipe to prevent it damaging the seals. It's a cheap tool and they sell it near the fittings.

There's also a removal tool that they sell. Make sure you get the correct size you are working with.

Regards.

I remember the removal tool from before, and they seem to include it with some of the items. But the installation tool is new info, and very helpful - I’ve only done crocus cloth cleanup like you’d do with sweating a joint, a good deburring is probably essential. Thanks!

[lwt16]

I remember the removal tool from before, and they seem to include it with some of the items. But the installation tool is new info, and very helpful - I’ve only done crocus cloth cleanup like you’d do with sweating a joint, a good deburring is probably essential. Thanks!

Don't trust me but I did read that you aren't supposed to clean the copper that well as the Sharkbite will adhere better to a "rough" surface rather than a shiny one.

The tool only deburrs the outside of the pipe. I took a small utility knife and just broke the edge of the inner pipe to clean it up. Sort of like stropping a blade instead of forward honing, if that makes any sense to you. Basically, scraping backwards instead of cutting into the copper...just to break the edge of the inner pipe.

[HeavyDuty]

Good info - thanks!

[BN]

I remember the removal tool from before, and they seem to include it with some of the items. But the installation tool is new info, and very helpful - I’ve only done crocus cloth cleanup like you’d do with sweating a joint, a good deburring is probably essential. Thanks!

The ones I got sometimes included a "U" type tool. After I had trouble with my weak fingers, I found I could use channel locks or a vise grip behind the tool to help. I had my 15 year old grand daughter install the Shark Bites because she wants to learn stuff. ;)

I just used a file to break the sharp edges after the pipe was cut.

[AKDoug]

I've sold 10's of thousands of them over the years. I've used dozens. They are good to go. The only thing you simply cannot do is side load them. The only failures we've seen can be directly traced to misalignment of the pipes and a significant side load on the fitting.

[HeavyDuty]

I've sold 10's of thousands of them over the years. I've used dozens. They are good to go. The only thing you simply cannot do is side load them. The only failures we've seen can be directly traced to misalignment of the pipes and a significant side load on the fitting.

These would be going into existing straight runs, so I think I’m likely good. If I get displacement when I cut the line, I’ll anchor them in good alignment. And no matter what I will be bracing them to prevent rotation.

[AKDoug]

These would be going into existing straight runs, so I think I’m likely good. If I get displacement when I cut the line, I’ll anchor them in good alignment. And no matter what I will be bracing them to prevent rotation. You'll be fine. Folks try to cram them into walls with bad alignment. Out in the open with a nice straight run they are great.

[MistWolf]

Sharkbite and Pex saved my life while fixing the plumbing in the motorhome.

Make sure your lines are the correct length between fittings. Length isn't critical, but it is important.

Don't do like my uncle and install the pressure regulator backwards. Fortunately, the Sharkbite removal tool makes it easy to correct such mistakes.

Silver solder makes a better and more economical joint, but the line must be clean and dry. Slightest bit of water and the copper won't get hot enough for the solder to flow. You'll also need heat blankets to prevent setting the place on fire.

[HeavyDuty]

I have $190.10 worth of parts and tools in my shopping cart, just waiting for confirmation that the water heater feedline is 3/4”... that includes the new expansion tank. I had a hard time finding the all metal pressure regulator (most have polymer caps) but Sharkbite referred me to an online dealer.

[MistWolf]

I have $190.10 worth of parts and tools in my shopping cart, just waiting for confirmation that the water heater feedline is 3/4”... that includes the new expansion tank. I had a hard time finding the all metal pressure regulator (most have polymer caps) but Sharkbite referred me to an online dealer.

Go measure the inlet line with a pair of calipers

[HeavyDuty]

Go measure the inlet line with a pair of calipers

My arm isn’t 1023 miles long, so... it’s tough doing this from a distance, but I want to have everything on hand when I get there in two weeks.

She was able to determine it’s 3/4”.

[tadawson]

Maybe I'm getting old and crusty, but myself I'd just stay with copper. It's too cheap and easy not to, and ought to be far more durable. (For what it's worth, I won't tolerate any kind of conpression connector on the supply side of a shutoff either . . .)

- Tim

[mmc45414]

Sharkbite sounds good, but i also bought the tools to crimp PEX. Maybe a Sharkbite connection and then run with PEX might simplify some things?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[BN]

20 some years ago when our house was built it was plumbed with copper and sweated connections. In the last 2 or 3 years we have had at least 6 pin hole leaks temporarily fixed with Shark Bites. This year we had it completely redone with PEX with a manifold etc.

[HeavyDuty]

Maybe I'm getting old and crusty, but myself I'd just stay with copper. It's too cheap and easy not to, and ought to be far more durable. (For what it's worth, I won't tolerate any kind of conpression connector on the supply side of a shutoff either . . .)

- Tim

I figure I’ll give this a try - my only experience with it before has worked out. The shutoff I’m replacing is the second one, there’s a gate valve on the other side of the water meter a few feet below where I’m working.


Sharkbite sounds good, but i also bought the tools to crimp PEX. Maybe a Sharkbite connection and then run with PEX might simplify some things?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

The copper is already in place, so...

[HeavyDuty]

20 some years ago when our house was built it was plumbed with copper and sweated connections. In the last 2 or 3 years we have had at least 6 pin hole leaks temporarily fixed with Shark Bites. This year we had it completely redone with PEX with a manifold etc.

If I ever have to repipe, this is the way I’m going.

[Malamute]

Ive mostly used copper, but started with pex on a house that already had it. I just ended up buying the Zurn tool and am glad I did. The stainless bands are much easier to remove when needed, the copper ones are a pain in the arse.

Ive used sharkbites some, I was skeptical, but theyve been fine. I recently checked further, they are rated or code compliant for in-wall use for the most part, some places amy be different, but they are OK in many from what Ive gathered. The removal tool Ive used is a small plastic C clip thing, anything that can pull the flange back will release them. They are cheap enough that one should have a few around so you can find one when you need it.

I de-burr the inside and outside of the pipes, copper anyway. I use a sharp knife or razor knife. I make it as clean as I can so theres nothing to damage the sharkbite parts.

I think its a good idea for people to keep a few of the sharkbite caps in 1/2" and 3/4" handy for emergencies. Get a leak, cut it, cap it, turn pressure back on so the rest of the house isnt without water, repair when possible.

If anyone is going to do work with pex, check on expansion techniques. It should be set up so the hot can expand (lengthwise) as it heats, they need a certain amount, and the clamps should be the correct type that it can slide in them when it expands.

[mark7]

20 some years ago when our house was built it was plumbed with copper and sweated connections. In the last 2 or 3 years we have had at least 6 pin hole leaks temporarily fixed with Shark Bites. This year we had it completely redone with PEX with a manifold etc.

Our house was built 15 years ago with pex and a manifold. Recently had a minor leak at . . . . . wait for it . . .






a sweated elbow going from the main to the manifold. I'm really a big fan of the manifold, when using water no prssure drops from the dishwasher, washing machine, etc. Using pex and sharkbites it was really simple to add a cold water supply in my garage. A hot water one is next on the radar.

[mmc45414]

The copper is already in place, so...
You can get a Sharkbite connector with a PEX nipple on it and go from there.




Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Malamute]

You can get a Sharkbite connector with a PEX nipple on it and go from there.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


You can use the sharkbite directly on the pex same as with copper. Ive had no problems doing so.

[mmc45414]

You can use the sharkbite directly on the pex same as with copper. I've had no problems doing so.
No Shit... Good2Know!

[HeavyDuty]

You can get a Sharkbite connector with a PEX nipple on it and go from there.




Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

There’s no real upside to partially replacing the existing copper at the moment, though.

[AKDoug]

20 some years ago when our house was built it was plumbed with copper and sweated connections. In the last 2 or 3 years we have had at least 6 pin hole leaks temporarily fixed with Shark Bites. This year we had it completely redone with PEX with a manifold etc.
We remodeled 12 years ago and did the whole thing with a manifold and dedicated runs to each fixture. I also did not put a shutoff at each fixture, just ran the pex right to them, as shutoffs are right there at the top for trouble spots. My brother and dad built houses around the same time with a manifold and home runs to shutoffs, then supply lines from the shutoff to fixture. Both have had issues with shutoffs and supply lines. Me? No problems at all.

We're going to remodel another one here soon and it will be getting the same treatment.

[DMF13]

I'm a huge fan of Sharkbite connections,and PEX. Years ago I wouldn't do hardly anything plumbing related, due to the soldering of copper pipe. Now, I do a lot of plumbing myself, with some exceptions, like the pressure regulating valves mentioned in the other thread.

I will offer one note of caution, PEX should not be exposed to UV light, or it will degrade: https://upgradedhome.com/how-to-protect-pex-pipe-from-uv-light/#:~:text=Why%20Does%20UV%20Light%20Cause%20PEX%20t o%20Degrade%3F,the%20sole%20reason%20for%20failure s%20in%20PEX%20piping.

However, its easy to prevent UV exposure.

[frank]

I'm happy to report AvE has done some testing in this area:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS7BV8yfIIE

[Hemiram]

Make sure you have a Leakfrog or some other water detector near your water inlet area. I found out the hard way. My house was started in 1968, and sat until 1970 with just the foundation poured and the water and gas lines installed (Had to do that to pour the foundation). Anyway, we moved in early '82 and somehow all kinds of stuff waited until then to loosen up and leak. We had almost immediately, a major gas leak from the meter, then another one from near the furnace. A friend and I went and tightened up all the gas pipe going from the meter to the furnace and a lot of joints were sort of loose. We thought we were all set, but then, when it was 10 degrees, the supply pipe coming in from the street started leaking, and we had to shut the gas off, hire someone to dig up the yard and then they discovered that, guess what, the shutoff valve was just loose, so a quick tightening up and an emergency inspection and turn on got our heat back on. Only one night with 3 dogs in a motel!

Then the water leaks started. The first one I saw start from about 6 feet away. Right off the water meter, there is 1/2" copper than makes a 90 degree bend to go up to the kitchen sink on both hot and cold. The cold side's sweat joint cracked and a fine mist of water sprayed out. A friend of mine and I got the torch out and redid the joint. It was a two man operation, because the floor assembly was up against the copper and one of us had had keep putting out the fire that tried to start everytime the torch was near the joint. Finally got that done, and for a while, all was well. I had a major health incident and was basically out of the house for over a month in 2007, and when I came back, the windows were sweaty and it was very humid in the house. A check downstairs showed that the hot water outlet of the water heater had cracked, on a sweated joint, of course, spraying steam and hot water out. The basement had about 3" of water in it, destroying a lot of stuff I had stored down there. After that was fixed and 3 Leakfrogs had been placed in the basement, the water heater failed and at least no damage came from that, except to my wallet.

But the leaks weren't done yet. Water and gas, yes, but it was another leak's time to appear, good old CO, carbon monoxide. I went downstairs with my dogs to watch a movie, and I got a bad headache. About the same time, my dogs were walking around with their noses in the air, all three of them, and I thought that was just odd. So I go and look at the furnace, and took one of those long matches and found the draft was gone and it was dumping CO into the basement. I shut off the furnace and called the HVAC company we used and they came out and It got fixed, but they said whoever put the furnace in messed up the flue and it didn't pull the draft it should have. A couple of years later. it leaked again, and at that point, a new furnace was installed and the new one had a very good draft so no more CO drama.

The last leak was after I had sold it to the friend who helped me fix the above stuff. There was a storm and suddenly there was water in the basement again. Leakfrogs saved the day, as he hadn't planned on going downstairs that day as he was fixing things up to flip the house. That was 3+ years ago, and so far, no more leaks!

[HeavyDuty]

Make sure you have a Leakfrog or some other water detector near your water inlet area. I found out the hard way. My house was started in 1968, and sat until 1970 with just the foundation poured and the water and gas lines installed (Had to do that to pour the foundation). Anyway, we moved in early '82 and somehow all kinds of stuff waited until then to loosen up and leak. We had almost immediately, a major gas leak from the meter, then another one from near the furnace. A friend and I went and tightened up all the gas pipe going from the meter to the furnace and a lot of joints were sort of loose. We thought we were all set, but then, when it was 10 degrees, the supply pipe coming in from the street started leaking, and we had to shut the gas off, hire someone to dig up the yard and then they discovered that, guess what, the shutoff valve was just loose, so a quick tightening up and an emergency inspection and turn on got our heat back on. Only one night with 3 dogs in a motel!

Then the water leaks started. The first one I saw start from about 6 feet away. Right off the water meter, there is 1/2" copper than makes a 90 degree bend to go up to the kitchen sink on both hot and cold. The cold side's sweat joint cracked and a fine mist of water sprayed out. A friend of mine and I got the torch out and redid the joint. It was a two man operation, because the floor assembly was up against the copper and one of us had had keep putting out the fire that tried to start everytime the torch was near the joint. Finally got that done, and for a while, all was well. I had a major health incident and was basically out of the house for over a month in 2007, and when I came back, the windows were sweaty and it was very humid in the house. A check downstairs showed that the hot water outlet of the water heater had cracked, on a sweated joint, of course, spraying steam and hot water out. The basement had about 3" of water in it, destroying a lot of stuff I had stored down there. After that was fixed and 3 Leakfrogs had been placed in the basement, the water heater failed and at least no damage came from that, except to my wallet.

But the leaks weren't done yet. Water and gas, yes, but it was another leak's time to appear, good old CO, carbon monoxide. I went downstairs with my dogs to watch a movie, and I got a bad headache. About the same time, my dogs were walking around with their noses in the air, all three of them, and I thought that was just odd. So I go and look at the furnace, and took one of those long matches and found the draft was gone and it was dumping CO into the basement. I shut off the furnace and called the HVAC company we used and they came out and It got fixed, but they said whoever put the furnace in messed up the flue and it didn't pull the draft it should have. A couple of years later. it leaked again, and at that point, a new furnace was installed and the new one had a very good draft so no more CO drama.

The last leak was after I had sold it to the friend who helped me fix the above stuff. There was a storm and suddenly there was water in the basement again. Leakfrogs saved the day, as he hadn't planned on going downstairs that day as he was fixing things up to flip the house. That was 3+ years ago, and so far, no more leaks!
Oh, man! It almost sounds like the house needs an exorcism.

I’m a fan of those little water detection alarms, too. Plus I see there are pipe mounted leak detectors now - some just alert, but others have an automatic shutoff function if a leak condition is detected. I want to look into those.

Another thing I want to look at is the automatic leak shutoff hoses for the washing machine - we have a second floor laundry, so a failure would make a water feature out of the staircase. Toilet feeds, too.

[tadawson]

Either I have the best luck, or you the worst . . . I own two homes, both done in copper. One since 1988 (built in '82, as I recall) and on municipal water, and the other built, as I recall, in 1959 (owned since 1962 by the family) and on a well.

Zero leaks. in the older (changed a few valves over the years, but that was it) and one dribble (again, failing valve) in the laundry in the newer, and that would have been trivial if the idiot who had plumbed it had not soldered the threaded valve, requiring me to open the wall to get to it.

In any case, zero failures of the copper or joints.

Which is why I am of the mindset that things like PEX are a solution in search of a problem. (Or, mlre likely, an enabler of far less skilled plumbers in the trade . . .)

[Darth_Uno]

Late to the party, but I'll chime in. I use Sharkbite for all kinds of fixes. Love it. It's so easy an idiot can do it, and I do.

Local inspectors won't let you cover them inside walls, and I'm old school enough to not want to do that anyway. But as long as it's visible where you can see it, we use them all the time.

[Hemiram]

Oh, man! It almost sounds like the house needs an exorcism.

I’m a fan of those little water detection alarms, too. Plus I see there are pipe mounted leak detectors now - some just alert, but others have an automatic shutoff function if a leak condition is detected. I want to look into those.

Another thing I want to look at is the automatic leak shutoff hoses for the washing machine - we have a second floor laundry, so a failure would make a water feature out of the staircase. Toilet feeds, too.

I think that the house's issues came from the sitting when the original owner/builder ran out of money. I vaguely remember riding my bike past my future house as a 13 year old and all there was was a large poured concrete foundation with some pipes in the ground. We paid a good price for it in '82, but there were a lot of things we noticed right away, like the really cheap light fixtures, the attic fan that blew out the water heater pilot light when used (Fixed when the original heater died and no more pilot light), the not so great drywall work, and the stuff in the above post. The A/C was weakish, fixed in '86 with a new unit, but still not great. I don't think we would have bought the house if we had known it's history, but we didn't know about the long delay until a neighbor told us about it.

I had the washer hot side line leak a tiny bit once when I ignored the "Change them every 5 years" advice, and the hoses hit about 10 years old. No real damage, just a little mist of hot water and some drama in trying to get the valve to shut off without breaking it.

Now I'm in an apartment, and the washer is my main worry about doing any damage. I check the hoses constantly.

[HeavyDuty]

I *finally* was able to get the pressure regulator and new shutoff valve installed. I had an issue getting one of the fittings to seat properly, but a few tries and a call to the manufacturers tech help line and it was done. I left the existing two shutoffs in place because there wasn’t much clearance between the backflow preventer and the house side shutoff. I cut in the new ball shutoff about six inches downstream from all that, a 12” stub and then the pressure regulator - I was careful to use the Sharkbite cut end cleanup tool on all pipe ends. The house side is now a stable 45 psi, down from 85-120.

Next step - cutting in a new Sharkbite ball valve on the water heater feedline to replace the failed open gate valve, and to spin on a new water heater pressure equalization tank to replace the old one that failed after being subjected to the street pressure.

Thanks for all of the advice, guys.