Would you trust a P365?

[RJ]

So I've been asking for thoughts on this topic on a number of the other P320 / Sig threads and decided to try and consolidate my questions in one place. I've included a simple five choice poll to gather some overall thoughts, but I would appreciate any inputs on any of the various topics below.

My rationale for starting this thread is that we've owned a P365 since last year. So far, it's been reliable and accurate. It was my wife's choice for a new carry gun, after she evaluated a number of options. She shoots it well. I previously owned a P365XL, which I ended up selling for reasons other than safety.

What's been bugging me however is whether the P365/P365XL is subject to any or the various issues regarding safety in terms of what you see with the P320. Our little blaster is accurate, and very handy in a pocket holster or JM CM IWB3. It carries like a small gun but shoots well. I find it a bit too small for my Size M/L grip, but I shoot it ok.

Here are the things I am interested in:

P365/XL FCU Design vs. P320 FCU Design

Is the P365/P365XL FCU simply a scaled down P320 FCU? Or are they fundamentally different? Especially in relation to safety considerations. Does the P365/XL have the same issues with the striker return spring being subject to being buggered up, or in need of replacement, as you hear about with the P320?

Does the P365/XL have a fully tensioned striker?

Again, just for clarification, does the Sig P365 have a fully tensioned striker, such that trigger movement is just "dropping" the trigger bar sear out of the way, and the striker goes forward? I guess I am comparing it to a Glock, which as I understand (based on a limited understanding) the trigger actually first tensions the striker rearward or the the rest of the way, then it drops the sear.

I "think" the answer to this is yes, but I wanted to be sure.

Dead Trigger?

Can you create a "dead trigger" situation, a la a VP9, on a P365/XL by striking it with a mallet, or falling on it onto the ground, striking the rear of the slide say on concrete?

Ever hear of any ND/ADs with a P365/XL?

Has anyone ever heard of or experienced a negligent / accidental / unintentional discharge of a P365 or P365XL?

Bent ejector?

With the P365/XL, is it possible to be over enthusiastic in inserting a magazine, and consequently bending the ejector up, as can happen with the P320? Am I correct in saying the ejector on a P365/XL is the same approach as on the P320, that is, the ejector is an extension of the FCU body itself and not a separate field replaceable component as say part of the Trigger Mechanism Housing on a Glock?




Thanks for any input. Just to emphasize, I've tried to ask these questions separately, but I think to be fair to the ongoing P320 discussions, it's better to get them all in one place, and focus on the P365/XL exclusively.

I'm fine with being told, no, the P365/XL FCU design is fine, it doesn't have the same characteristics of the P320, and you should not worry about it. I come to this forum to get straight up unvarnished truth about firearms, and I hope to use this thread to get some clarity here.

I am not trying to invent a problem if there is not one. I am not a Sig hater. I am not here to bash the company, or it's CEO, or it's marketing approach. I just want to gather some input.

Thanks a bunch.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I've tried three different one's, mixed result with each. One even blew the back plate off when using duty ammo that was 124gr +P Speer Gold Dot. After re-assemblying, I sent it back for inspection and then later sold it.

[M2CattleCo]

I’ve been pretty curious about the 320, and now the 365 as I used to be all Sig with 226 / 239 carry guns before I switched to Glock to save weight.

I really like the idea of a full size and subcompact set of pistols like a G17/43, or 320/365.

I’ve had enough mechanical and ergonomic problems with Glocks that I am not super biased toward them and am always looking for a replacement.

That said...


I have never shot a 320, and have never even held a 365 due to the complete debacle that is the companies actions and their products.

[newyork]

I’ve been pretty curious about the 320, and now the 365 as I used to be all Sig with 226 / 239 carry guns before I switched to Glock to save weight.

I really like the idea of a full size and subcompact set of pistols like a G17/43, or 320/365.

I’ve had enough mechanical and ergonomic problems with Glocks that I am not super biased toward them and am always looking for a replacement.

That said...


I have never shot a 320, and have never even held a 365 due to the complete debacle that is the companies actions and their products.

Why not an M&P 2.0 and shield?

[Crusader8207]

I have been carrying either a standard 365 or an XL for at least a year now. I have run the XL through 2 classes and have had zero issues with the gun. I have about 2000+ rounds through it. I shoot it well, has decent capacity, I carry 2 15 round magazines for reloads. Not being on the job any longer, I find it fits my needs very well.

[lwt16]

While not an armorer for the 365/356XL, I have looked them over by field stripping them and I'm pretty sure there are multiple differences between them and the 320. I have fired about five or six different copies and can say that they have been accurate and reliable. I'm wanting to say (old and forgetful) that one of them had a failure to return to battery that worked itself out with a grip change as the shooter was inducing the malfunction but can't say for certain.

A 365XL I fired had the worst trigger ever and the owner wanted me to check it out. I'm wanting to say, that even with the gritty trigger, I was able to put up a high 90 at the twenty five yard line on a B8. I have found that for such a dinky pistol, they have all been very accurate at 25 yards.

I did see one with some corrosion issues (magazines, sights, barrel) and that seems to be the biggest drawback to them. I think the striker issues/dead trigger issues are sorted out now but I'm not sure on that. I'd like to take the armorer's course but there hasn't been one offered close to me that I am aware of.

It's popular here among my circle of shooters away from the department but at work, I haven't seen too many cops opt to get one as we offer a G43 as a back up if an officer so chooses. And our cops aren't shooters anyway, for the most part so spending their own money on a 365 probably isn't happening much. Or I'm out of the loop if it is.

And my social circle of folks may not be firing their 365s at a high rate...especially since we can't find ammo now.

I had planned on picking one up and running it hard this Christmas with my bonus......but, since I can't find the ammo, that isn't happening. My local shop typically has them in stock and for good prices but it's been some time since I checked and I wanted a cop price model which is a bit harder to find. I'd also take a used one if I can find one in the future just because I want to wring it out.

I've not heard of any ADs with them and I'm wanting to say that it has a different style ejector but I'm not sure on that either. I don't have one in front of me to look at.

Regards.

[APS-PF]

I voted 'not sure either way' because I think it's a mistake to assume future reliability in anything important even if you test it heavily. Because sometimes things break.
I do have three 365s (carry, trainer, backup). One I've shot almost every week for a year and a half with the only issue related to magazine springs getting worn and causing HP feeding failures so I keep a separate set of carry mags. Due to some physical issues carrying anything heavier becomes a problem and it's the only way to get the high capacity and a decent manual safety. I shoot it well enough that I can routinely get 95+ on The Test from IWB.

But I totally get why many on this board would not trust anything new from SIG.

[octagon]

I bought a 365 a little over a year after they came out. I was reluctant due to the 320 handling debacle but after handling one at a gun show I was willing to chance it. I have fired just under 2500 rounds through mine with no problems other than some people who shot it didn't get the slide to lock back on the last round. I chalk that up to grip. It does show some minor primer drag but not excessive or as pronounced as some pictures of others I have seen. I carry it most frequently and especially when I travel by air as it allows me to have a small gun with 10 rounds for restricted states and 12 for everywhere else as well as home state.

I have not heard of dead trigger, AD/NDs or bent ejector nor have I had any on my single sample.

I plan to pick up a 365XL when they are available again as I think it fits well between Glock 19,43X,48 size wise and I shoot the 43X 48 frame size so much better than any gun but the short RSA on the 48 doesn't help it where the longer RSA and heavier slide on the 365XL is purported to make it a nice shooter. I would like to see a full size 15 round length,4+" barrel 365XXL that takes the same basic mags and I might switch away from Glocks more fully.

[DMCutter]

I swapped my PC Shield for a 365 a couple years ago. I ran many hundreds of rounds through it to break it in with no issues, including HST 147 and 124+p, which is what I carry. I had it milled for a 507k several months ago and it still fits in my pocket in a Pocket Locker. I trust it more than my Hellcat, even though I've never had any issues with it, either.

[RevolverRob]

I voted not sure either way. But I'm following this with great interest.

Maybe the folks who have voted "Definitely Not!" - Can tell us why they voted that way?

[HeavyDuty]

I really want to like the 365/365XL - to be honest, on paper I could replace all of my serious guns with these plus maybe a couple of 320 compacts. A good friend has a 365 SAS and I like it a lot more than I thought I ever would. But every time I see the 320/365/365XL exploded parts diagram, I think of Glock’s mechanical simplicity and shy away.

But I’m keeping an open mind. I’d like to see what people have to say here.

[RJ]

I voted not sure either way. But I'm following this with great interest.

Maybe the folks who have voted "Definitely Not!" - Can tell us why they voted that way?

That's me as well, I voted "not sure". It would be great if you voted "NOT" to outline your rationale, but if you prefer not to, no problem. I made the poll anonymous for that reason.

If I had to do this all over again, knowing what I know now, I am not sure I would have proceeded with a purchase of both the P365 or P365XL. There are just other options that don't have the uncertainty.

i can say that the issues I've seen with the P320 here and elsewhere made me look at other pistols for a new USPSA gun to replace my G19. I ended up buying a G34 and keeping the G19 as a spare, but I was headed to buying a P320 or something along those lines, before I had the issues with my P365XL. (Cliffs: The FCU "rocked" slightly in the frame during the trigger press due to either a short FCU or a long grip module (stacking tolerance issue?); and I had one instance where the follower barfed out of the mag tube at a USPSA match. I concluded the gun was not really robust enough "for me" and sold it for a Glock 48.) The P365 is the only Sig we have at the moment.

[RevolverRob]

That's me as well, I voted "not sure". It would be great if you voted "NOT" to outline your rationale, but if you prefer not to, no problem. I made the poll anonymous for that reason.

If I had to do this all over again, knowing what I know now, I am not sure I would have proceeded with a purchase of both the P365 or P365XL. There are just other options that don't have the uncertainty.

i can say that the issues I've seen with the P320 here and elsewhere made me look at other pistols for a new USPSA gun to replace my G19. I ended up buying a G34 and keeping the G19 as a spare, but I was headed to buying a P320 or something along those lines, before I had the issues with my P365XL. (Cliffs: The FCU "rocked" slightly in the frame during the trigger press due to either a short FCU or a long grip module (stacking tolerance issue?); and I had one instance where the follower barfed out of the mag tube at a USPSA match. I concluded the gun was not really robust enough "for me" and sold it for a Glock 48.) The P365 is the only Sig we have at the moment.

Yea, your issues definitely gave me pause. Which sucks, because the 365XL with thumb safety seems like a great option for me (as a 1911 shooter). I've decided to ditch my other sub-compact 9mms (Kahrs; see my creepy marketing practices thread in GD for why). So, I'm looking at other options hard right now. And it's basically coming down to guns mentioned in this thread, the P365XL, Shield EZ9, or M&P Compact 2.0 - all with the thumb safety.

[psalms144.1]

I'm in the "not sure" category, even though a P365XL has become my primary "summer gun." Mine is exceptionally accurate and MUCH easier to shoot both at speed and on low probability targets than the G43X I had and sold off.

But, it's still not "kayak ready" in my book, because I shudder to think what would happen were I to be carrying it and end up in the water. I'm still waiting with some impatience for something on it to fail, not because it's given me any reason to doubt it, but just because it's a Sig...

[dontshakepandas]

I voted probably not. I've seen enough issues with late model Sigs and I'm not particularly impressed with the way they've handled the situations, so I just prefer to stay away. Also, I prefer to have a hammer or gadget so that would rule them out.

My in-laws did just pick up a P365 as they decided that they wanted a firearm. I didn't push them away from Sig, but I'm not sure if that says more about my opinion of Sig or my in-laws.

[RevolverRob]

I voted probably not. I've seen enough issues with late model Sigs and I'm not particularly impressed with the way they've handled the situations, so I just prefer to stay away. Also, I prefer to have a hammer or gadget so that would rule them out.

My in-laws did just pick up a P365 as they decided that they wanted a firearm. I didn't push them away from Sig, but I'm not sure if that says more about my opinion of Sig or my in-laws.

Off-Topic Shitpost:

Damn dude...harsh. Maybe I should get my MIL a P365? :eek:

[HCountyGuy]

I've toyed with the P365 and the XL. They both seem interesting, though my preference leans towards the XL simply because it does fit interestingly in the hand.

However, issues with Sig aside, they're still pretty new designs that are likely to be barfing up issues now and again and I don't feel like beta testing. Hell just look at the issues that are still being examined with the P320 by the trusted folks here, and that gun came out 6 years ago.

It still comes down to distrusting Sig as a whole for me though, which is why I marked probably not. It's a damned shame, because their products are very intriguing but I just don't trust them to consistently execute them properly. Which sucks having been a former Sig-fiend.

[ssb]

My XLs have worked quite well, though given present circumstances my round count is fairly low. The 365XL in my holster has about 1400 rounds through it, 900 of which are with a 407K attached. I’ve fired 350 rounds of 147gr HST with no issue. The only issue I has was my grip pushing up the slide stop once, causing the gun to lock back with rounds in the magazine. My practice gun has a 507K with about 500 rounds through it at this point, again with no issues.

Both the optic and gun survived a cat-propelled launch off my gun bench with no discharge, cracking, or loss of zero.

[GJM]

My wife has carried a 365 IWB every day for the last 16 months. It allows her to carry a 9mm with good capacity in the physical envelope of a Glock .380. She has had external corrosion problems with her spare magazine carried IWB, but that hasn’t impacted function. She only shoots it intermittently but she has had no function problems. She carries 115 Gold Dot in it. There is no other pistol that will do for her what the 365 does.

[Mike C]

My wife has carried a 365 IWB every day for the last 16 months. It allows her to carry a 9mm with good capacity in the physical envelope of a Glock .380. She has had external corrosion problems with her spare magazine carried IWB, but that hasn’t impacted function. She only shoots it intermittently but she has had no function problems. She carries 115 Gold Dot in it. There is no other pistol that will do for her what the 365 does.

I had the same issue with a few magazines. I opted to just have the magazines recoated. I used CCR for the work and the turn around was extremely fast. Mary was great to deal with. I would see about just having a few mags coated. The refinishing seems to have completely solved my issues with rusting on the spine where I was getting it before. It also fixed my issue with the controls rusting since I had them done as well. I agree there isn't really anything else out there in the size envelope that offers what the 365 does.

[BillSWPA]

I followed the threads discussing the P365 when it first came out, and waited about a year to get one. I bought it because 1) handling both the P365 and G43 at the 2019 NRA Annual Meeting showed me that the G43 gives up 4 rounds for very little size advantage, 2) the Indiana State Police selected it as an issued backup gun around that time, and 3) Pat Kelley did one of his "Out Of The Box And To The Match" reviews, and was impressed.

With 10 round magazines and flat basepads, it is a game changer for pocket carry. With carefully selected pants and an Aholster pocket holster, it can be suitable for NPE carry.

With 12 round magazines, it works very well for IWB carry. It splits the capacity difference between my G26 and G19 while being thinner than both. When carried IWB with 12 round magazines, it conceals very close to the same degree as a G26 with 10 round magazines, but provides a full 3 finger grip.

Given the current COVID/BLM/Antifa/post-election craziness, I am frequently carrying my G19. However, for most of this year my P365 has been my most commonly carried gun.

Mine has a low round count, but has been accurate and easy to shoot well.

I have heard from unverified and unvetted sources that the P365 was drop tested much more extensively by Sig than the P320, but cannot say that this is definitely the case. I have not come across any instances of accidental discharges due to a P365 being dropped.

I am glad I waited until the bugs were worked out before buying, but I am glad I bought mine.

[HeavyDuty]

I just wish a gadget-type device was available...

[Ichiban]

I picked up a used XL a while back and it has been nothing but reliable, surprisingly accurate, and not too bad to shoot for a small gun. But since it didn't have a thumb safety I didn't carry it. You know how 1911 guys have to have their security blanket. :rolleyes:

Anyway, last night I put a thumb safety in it and will be burning up some of my precious 9mm stash to vet it for carry. I really wish the thumb safety was longer but I think that will just be a training issue.

[maximus83]

Mine does not have a high round count, but has 1500 consecutive trouble-free rounds. And I shoot mine better than any similar compact pistol I've tried, even better than my previous Shield that had an Apex trigger. Combine reliable function, better trigger, and higher capacity--for me this has been a pretty awesome compact.

[tlong17]

Have loved my 365 and continue to carry it most of the time. Have gotten rid of my 320’s though. I just can’t find anything else that gives me the same versatility as a 365 switching between 10 round, 10 round with pinky, 12 round, and 15 round for reloads does.

[JCS]

I voted Yes 100%. Why? Because I own both a 365 and xl. The regular is my carry gun so I already do trust my life to it. The mean rounds between failure on the 2 guns is over 500 (closer to 1000 than 500) and that seems acceptable to me for a carry gun.

[GJM]

My wife pulled her 365 out today, at the end of a CO practice session. Says it easier to shoot the lint off than wipe it down.

First shot some zero verification shots at a small square, and then some faster shooting at a circle.


https://youtu.be/qm-60ggctV0

[Yung]

Probably not. I bought one of the first of the Gen 2s and couldn't feed a single magazine through it without problems. That was after having to send a 320 in for the voluntary upgrade so I decided to cut my losses.

At this point I think an LCR would be better suited to what I was wanting anyway.

[Archer1440]

Dead Trigger?

Can you create a "dead trigger" situation, a la a VP9, on a P365/XL by striking it with a mallet, or falling on it onto the ground, striking the rear of the slide say on concrete?


To my knowledge, no one credible has experienced a dead VP9 trigger by “falling on it onto the ground”. I tend to avoid mallets in my trousers while carrying AIWB.

[0ddl0t]

My P365 has close to 20,000 rounds through it and before covid was eating about 1,000 rounds a month. It has gone back to sig 3 times:

1) failures to extract with a variety of cheap ammo, right out of the box. Sig polished some things and it helped, but it still isn't what I think it should be (my PM9 has never had a fte with the same ammo). I've never had a fte with nickel or quality brass in the P365, but cheaper slightly out of saami spec stuff like champion brass will still fte every 500 hundred rounds or so unless I clean religiously. Steel cased winchester chokes every few magazines, and Independence & champion aluminum lasts an average of a couple hundred rounds between ftes.

2) Gas cutting on the breech face necessitated a slide replacement around 7,000 rounds, probably caused by the aforementioned diet of cheap ammo. Slides have been revised multiple times since then.

3) The trigger return spring fatigued to the point it became disconnected at around 15,000 rounds, resulting in a dead trigger that would not reset unless you inverted the gun. I'd replace all the springs at least every 10,000 rounds in addition to the manual's recommended 2,500 round interval for the recoil spring assembly (which I followed religiously - and do notice the difference in feel when it returns to battery on a fresh spring). I'd also replace mag springs every year or so if you're shooting a lot and really care about slide lock.


I have had just about every reported stoppage except a broken striker (ironically mine is still the original from the time period where some were bad) and, aside from a very rare failure to slide lock, I don't have any issues now when reasonably clean and fed good ammo. I do trust it when carried that way, but I wouldn't expect it to pass the 2,000 round challenge with what I used to call Walmart range fodder.



Does the P365/XL have a fully tensioned striker?
My understanding is yes. I do not see how activating the trigger can cock the striker any further, and the amount it is precocked is sufficient to pop a primer if the striker block failed somehow.

With a functioning striker block, the only way I could see a accidental mechanical discharge is if the striker broke either at the sear or in the dead center of the striker at its thinnest point. If the striker broke at the later, I don't think it would retain enough mass to pop a primer. But if the striker broke at the sear when tensioned I'd expect a bang.

Virtually all of the broken strikers were at the tip where you would have a failure to fire, but I've come across 3 broken strikers online that could potentially have caused a discharge, 1 broke in the center so there was nothing to prevent the front half from springing forward into the primer:

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37730&d=1556760708


And two broke on the sear surface "foot" thingamajig which scarily is the primary point of engagement with the striker block:

6437264373





Dead Trigger?

Can you create a "dead trigger" situation, a la a VP9, on a P365/XL by striking it with a mallet, or falling on it onto the ground, striking the rear of the slide say on concrete?
Never heard of it. But you can create a dead trigger if you go 15,000 rounds (plus at least as many dry fires) on the original trigger reset spring...



Ever hear of any ND/ADs with a P365/XL?
One: user error reholstering into a pocket-carried sticky holster.



Bent ejector?

With the P365/XL, is it possible to be over enthusiastic in inserting a magazine, and consequently bending the ejector up, as can happen with the P320? Am I correct in saying the ejector on a P365/XL is the same approach as on the P320, that is, the ejector is an extension of the FCU body itself and not a separate field replaceable component as say part of the Trigger Mechanism Housing on a Glock?
The ejector is integrated into the fcu and I believe if you were to slam one of the various extended magazines with the XL baseplates into a standard p365 you could bend the ejector. With the correct base plates I don't think you could without really being a hammer ass.

[GJM]

Wow, Sig should pay you as a 365 product tester, as I wouldn’t be surprised if you have the most rounds through a 365 of any user. Seems like a reasonable approach would be to have a almost new 365 for carry and a second 365 that you put the bulk of your rounds through.

[RancidSumo]

The ejector is integrated into the fcu and I believe if you were to slam one of the various extended magazines with the XL baseplates into a standard p365 you could bend the ejector. With the correct base plates I don't think you could without really being a hammer ass.

Thank you for this. I haven't shot mine a ton, and thankfully haven't been doing too many reloads with it at all, but I've been carrying a 15rd mag with the XL baseplate as my spare mag. Preferred the shorter plate so it would conceal better with a Neomag in the left front pocket, but that isn't worth a bent ejector.

[Clusterfrack]

I voted not sure either way. But I'm following this with great interest.

Maybe the folks who have voted "Definitely Not!" - Can tell us why they voted that way?

I don't own a p365, but I owned 4 p320s and am very familiar with the details of the design, having done quite a few full disassemblies. Aspects of the 320 are clever and novel, but there are a number of design features that suggest poor engineering. Add to that the drop-unsafe issue, and that makes me skeptical that Sig's handgun engineers, and production and QC teams can design and build a gun that I would trust as life-safety equipment.

Once I see something from a company that reveals obviously bad engineering in one gun, I'm gun-shy of their entire product line--especially new designs. What other problems are lurking in there? I'm just not willing to bet my life on their products. I know that will drastically reduce my options for defensive firearms, but I'm ok with that.

Good to go: Glock, HK, CZ, Ruger revolvers
No go: S&W, Sig, Springfield, all 1911/2011s, Kahr, all Glock clones.
Maybe: Beretta, Walther

[Sammy1]

NYPD approved the P365 for off duty, albeit with a heavy trigger. Their firearms unit is full time and I believe do substantial testing before authorizing.

[Hieronymous]

NYPD approved the P365 for off duty, albeit with a heavy trigger. Their firearms unit is full time and I believe do substantial testing before authorizing.

Heavy trigger. Ugh. They must calculate the incidents of NDs would be much higher without, but do they factor in the liability of fewer shots on target the heavy trigger portends with a force that is not provided nearly enough time on the range to compensate for it?

[FreedomFries]

With a functioning striker block, the only way I could see a accidental mechanical discharge is if the striker broke either at the sear or in the dead center of the striker at its thinnest point. If the striker broke at the later, I don't think it would retain enough mass to pop a primer. But if the striker broke at the sear when tensioned I'd expect a bang.
...
And two broke on the sear surface "foot" thingamajig which scarily is the primary point of engagement with the striker block

The second scenario is what worries me the most about this design, especially since that "foot" appears to have broken off before. Do you know if these failures occurred at rest or during use? I hope that it would never occur at rest in someone's pocket or AIWB holster as it would almost certainly discharge. If during cycling, I'm thinking it may result in a double then become useless except as a club (or art if you have a Desert Legionox Scorpion Elite).

Of note, other fully tensioned striker designs also engage the FPB at a point on or near the sear engaging protrusion. The VP9 functions like this, but I haven't heard of any strikers breaking in that manner. The M&P is also somewhat like this, but it has a separate nub on the rear right of the striker rod, so the whole back 3/16" or so of the striker rod would have to snap off for it to launch forward unimpeded by the FPB. Since S&W switched to the silver colored MIM strikers, I haven't heard anyone report a broken striker "foot."

Maybe an engineer could opine on whether a striker could fail at rest under the same tension and protected from impact by the slide.

[0ddl0t]

I don't recall the details of how they failed offhand, but there was no mention of a double or AD. I believe one was on sigtalk and one on reddit, I'll try to look them up later today

[tlong17]

I don't own a p365, but I owned 4 p320s and am very familiar with the details of the design, having done quite a few full disassemblies. Aspects of the 320 are clever and novel, but there are a number of design features that suggest poor engineering. Add to that the drop-unsafe issue, and that makes me skeptical that Sig's handgun engineers, and production and QC teams can design and build a gun that I would trust as life-safety equipment.

Once I see something from a company that reveals obviously bad engineering in one gun, I'm gun-shy of their entire product line--especially new designs. What other problems are lurking in there? I'm just not willing to bet my life on their products. I know that will drastically reduce my options for defensive firearms, but I'm ok with that.

Good to go: Glock, HK, CZ, Ruger revolvers
No go: S&W, Sig, Springfield, all 1911/2011s, Kahr, all Glock clones.
Maybe: Beretta, Walther

Just curious what drives your “Maybe” rating on Beretta? No judging just genuinely curious.

[Clusterfrack]

Just curious what drives your “Maybe” rating on Beretta? No judging just genuinely curious.

Beretta has produced too many truly crappy guns to make it to my A-list. It apparently takes a lot of aftermarket parts and Langdon voodoo to turn a PX4 into a good gun. Their CS seems quite good, and I'm happy with my 1301. And I'm glad to see Beretta getting serious about competitive shooting. They are sponsoring the 2021 USPSA Production Nationals this year, and the 92X Performance model looks promising.

So, I'm in a wait and see mode on Beretta. I have no reason to own one of their pistols right now.

[0ddl0t]

And two broke on the sear surface "foot" thingamajig which scarily is the primary point of engagement with the striker block:

6437264373




The second scenario is what worries me the most about this design, especially since that "foot" appears to have broken off before. Do you know if these failures occurred at rest or during use?

So from what I can dig up from 2nd hand sources, the 1st failure occurred when the owner was pulling the striker back and letting it slam forward into the striker block as a safety function check and the 2nd failure occurred (or was noticed) when the owner disassembled his gun and locked things up trying to put it back together. He then resorted to force at which point things freed up and he noticed the striker was broken. Neither resulted in a discharge.

[Jared]

It apparently takes a lot of aftermarket parts and Langdon voodoo to turn a PX4 into a good gun.

I disagree with that part. About the only thing a 9mm PX4 really needs is some Talon grip tape. The other stuff is nice but not required. One of my favorite PX4s is a full sized that I added Talon tape to, blacked out the rear dots and swapped the safety levers for 92-type. That’s hardly a lot of aftermarket parts and Langdon voodoo.

[Rex G]

Probably not.

1. A friend’s P365 pointed far too low, when I held it in a firing grip. Bigger SIGs, except for the push-button-mag-release P220, point naturally well for me. Those newer P220 only point a bit low. The P365 points radically low. So, there will be no opportunity for me to get around to the trusting part.

2. My days of high-round-count centerfire shooting are finished, so I am much less likely to adopt any new auto-pistol models.

3. Compact Nines, as a class of weapon, are off my radar screen. They hurt my right thumb/hand/wrist, when shooting righty, they hurt my right wrist when the right hand is the support hand, while shooting lefty, and few compact Nines behave well as one-hand-guns. This factor is why I have not bought any any of the slim-line Glock Nines. I have not fired my G19 pistols since 2017.

There; three objective reasons why I probably will not even get around to the trusting part, which have nothing to do with my subjective feelings about SIG.

Of course, these three reasons are personal, for me. Our hands are all different, and my second and third reasons are due to age and cumulative injuries. My “old man” Nines and .45 pistols have longer grips, that reach all the way to the “heel bone” of my hand.

Edited to add: I do not “blame” compact Nines for causing injury to my hands. If guns did it, they were bigger-bore Magnums, fired in the Eighties.

[RJ]

Probably not.

1. A friend’s P365 pointed far too low, when I held it in a firing grip. Bigger SIGs, except for the push-button-mag-release P220, point naturally well for me. Those newer P220 only point a bit low. The P365 points radically low. So, there will be no opportunity for me to get around to the trusting part.



I may be wrong but I understand Sig uses a ‘shoot the dot’ sight picture? I can routinely get inside a 1” square at 5 yards using a Dot hold and Federal AE 115 with my wife’s P365. The trigger on ours is excellent, for a SFA, light press and a very crisp break.

Totally understand why you’d prefer not to shoot small 9’s. Out of all the recent carry gun options I went though in the last 18 months (P365, Glock 43X, P365XL, Glock 48) the G48 is the softest shooting, for me.

[Clusterfrack]

I disagree with that part. About the only thing a 9mm PX4 really needs is some Talon grip tape. The other stuff is nice but not required. One of my favorite PX4s is a full sized that I added Talon tape to, blacked out the rear dots and swapped the safety levers for 92-type. That’s hardly a lot of aftermarket parts and Langdon voodoo.

I'm glad to hear that, and you have 99% more experience with PX4s than I do. I was guessing that my post would generate some comments from Beretta owners.

Back to the p365...

[Kanye Wyoming]

I’ve had a P365XL for a while and it has been nothing but reliable through several hundred rounds of a variety of ammo. It’s stupid accurate and pretty quick for such a small gun. No complaints other than the grip is a bit too small for me to get a good grip all the time, which has been reflected in draw to first shot times.

On the other hand, with some practice the G43X has grown to become perfect for me. I’ve never had a grip issue, my times and scores on various drills are almost what they are on full size guns and occasionally better, and it holds 15 + 1 with the Shield Arms mags. I have several of these mags, I’ve run them hard, and no issues at all except some don’t cleanly drop free and I’ve had to do a little trick I saw on the interwebz with painters tape around the mag and a hair dryer to oh-so-slightly expand the grip. The trick works.

With either gun, you literally don’t even know you’re wearing it, and neither does anyone else.

[HCM]

I disagree with that part. About the only thing a 9mm PX4 really needs is some Talon grip tape. The other stuff is nice but not required. One of my favorite PX4s is a full sized that I added Talon tape to, blacked out the rear dots and swapped the safety levers for 92-type. That’s hardly a lot of aftermarket parts and Langdon voodoo.

The full size can get by with grip tape and new sights if you get one with a decent trigger. My .40 cal police trade in has an OK trigger.

However, the compact needs all that plus the slim line / G parts. It makes it handle like a completely different gun.

Also some early PX4's had documented issues which Beretta apparently addressed via inline changes.

[HCM]

My agency is phasing out .40 and .38 by the end of the year so I had to retire my J frame BUG this summer.

We approved the P365 last year. I picked one up to compare vs the previously approved G43.

It ran fine but was a little small for my hands. Luckily for me the P365XL passed testing and was approved in September.

It's worth noting the G43X and G48 did not pass and as of September, no new regular G43s will be approved.

We have many LEOs who have bought P365s in conjunction with our switch to the P320. We've seen a few new P365s which failed armorer inspection due to defective takedown levers and we've had a few with oversized rear sight dovetails causing the rear sights to come loose.

Otherwise we have not seen any issues with P365 / 365XLs that were not user induced.

I have a bit less than 1k rounds on my P365XL without issue including a couple hundred duty rounds (Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dot).

As an additional data point, a shooter in my last Modern Samurai Class (October 2020) shot the whole class (800 to 1k rounds) with a Romeo Zero equipped P365Xl without issue.

[RJ]

HCM have you seen or heard of anyone with a P365XL dropping a mag, only to have the follower barf out the top?

I was reloading at the bench in between stages in the one and only USPSA match I took the XL to. I stared at the follower for a good 10 seconds before I recognized there was a problem. I only had five mags, so I reflexively stuffed the follower back into the mag tube and reloaded. It shot the rest of the match without issue.

I wasn't sure what caused that to happen, but it was likely a partially loaded mag that was dropped mid-stage. So maybe dropping it caused the problem. I dunno.

That, and the "rocking" of the FCU in the frame on trigger press, due to either an undersized FCU or an oversized frame (or both) were the only two issues I had with the gun. The whole slide moved about 0.100", then the trigger broke. I traded it after concluding that I didn't, really, want to transition from a Glock 19 to shooting a P320 in USPSA (because: reasons) and hence the P365XL didn't make a lot of sense to me. I ended up buying the G48 for EDC and a G34 for games.

Otherwise the XL was a good little shooter. For 12+1 its an amazing package.

[JCS]

Both my 365 and xl mags do not do well when dropped with rounds still in the mag. It usually causes issues with the rounds getting jammed at the bottleneck point of the mags but I’ve never had any feeding issues.

[HCM]

HCM have you seen or heard of anyone with a P365XL dropping a mag, only to have the follower barf out the top?

I was reloading at the bench in between stages in the one and only USPSA match I took the XL to. I stared at the follower for a good 10 seconds before I recognized there was a problem. I only had five mags, so I reflexively stuffed the follower back into the mag tube and reloaded. It shot the rest of the match without issue.

I wasn't sure what caused that to happen, but it was likely a partially loaded mag that was dropped mid-stage. So maybe dropping it caused the problem. I dunno.

That, and the "rocking" of the FCU in the frame on trigger press, due to either an undersized FCU or an oversized frame (or both) were the only two issues I had with the gun. The whole slide moved about 0.100", then the trigger broke. I traded it after concluding that I didn't, really, want to transition from a Glock 19 to shooting a P320 in USPSA (because: reasons) and hence the P365XL didn't make a lot of sense to me. I ended up buying the G48 for EDC and a G34 for games.

Otherwise the XL was a good little shooter. For 12+1 its an amazing package.

No on the mag issue but that is normally a spring issue. Due to the semi staggered / 1.5 stack design I would check that mag to ensure it was properly assembled / re-assembled.

No on "rocking" FCU issues. We have more than 50 P365 shooters but only myself and one other guy (also a big dude) have opted for the P365XL so far.

[RJ]

Both my 365 and xl mags do not do well when dropped with rounds still in the mag. It usually causes issues with the rounds getting jammed at the bottleneck point of the mags but I’ve never had any feeding issues.

Thanks.

In the name of Science (but mainly because it always bugged me why) I took a look at one of our P365 mags just now. I got one of my G48 mags and put them side by side to compare followers.

The G48 follower fits fairly snugly on the mag lips, and doesn't appear to be able to wriggle past the feed lips. The P365...well, it looked a bit less secure.

So I grabbed a plastic Tipton Pick and inserted it into the fore end of the follower, at the top of the tube and gave it a little bend. Enough to put some stress on the pick; I was trying to see whether the follower could be forced upward/outward, similar (possibly?) to being dropped with rounds in the mag.

I tried the G48 and while I could get a hold of it, the follower was a bit deeper and it always sprang back into place. In other words, I couldn't get the follower in the Glock mag to pop up out of the tube.

The P365 mag, well it was pretty easy to lever out. In fact I popped the front up and out, and then the fore edge kind of sat on the shelf of the feed lip and wouldn't go back in, to the position you see here:

64905

I'm not really sure this proves anything.

I just thought it was interesting enough to try. I think there's a good chance the malfunction I had where the follower barfed out of the mag tube at my match was the same issue, though. I disassembled the P365 mag, and you can actually insert the follower into the mag, from the top. You just have to "rotate" the follower slightly after you slide it in, then it takes up it's normal position at the top of the tube. I haven't taken apart my Glock mags lately (and I can't find my Jaws of Life I usually need :cool:) but can't remember if you can fit the follower in from the top.