Detained for Open Carry Portland, Maine

[Frank D.]

Thought this was interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE

[cclaxton]

In some states you are required to identify yourself. Be careful in your own State...this was Maine.
The citizen was very well versed in the law, but I don't think its necessary to quote the laws to the police.
I thought the guy's tone was too indignant...justified, of course, but not helping.

Is it reasonable for a police officer to disarm you during an encounter for his own protection? (Not to say there is any threat.) I can understand why he wants to protect himself.

CC

[derekb]

This sort of thing will never seem productive.

[voodoo_man]

In some states you are required to identify yourself. Be careful in your own State...this was Maine.
The citizen was very well versed in the law, but I don't think its necessary to quote the laws to the police.
I thought the guy's tone was too indignant...justified, of course, but not helping.

Is it reasonable for a police officer to disarm you during an encounter for his own protection? (Not to say there is any threat.) I can understand why he wants to protect himself.

CC

His tone was one of provocation. He wanted to start an issue, "Can I have your first name?" "No." Why? I asked myself. Ohh because he wanted a payday out of this whole thing. Guys like this record themselves walking around for hours and days on end in nice suburban areas with very low crime rates just so they can jam someone up. Where exactly does this get "the cause" ? No where. These types of people (yep, I said it) are going to ruin it for everyone else down the line.

It is perfectly reasonable for a LEO to disarm, clear the weapon, and then proceed with the encounter/investigation.

[ToddG]

If you walk around with the express intent of provoking a reaction from a cop, don't be surprised or upset when you provoke a reaction from a cop. Duh.

I think Paul Sharp (from TPI forum) had the best idea ever when it comes to citizens videotaping police: he pulls out his camera and starts videotaping them right back. That's just awesome.

[fuse]

I have seen more and more LEOs with very small video cameras mounted on their head/shoulders. Like a much smaller contour roam.

I reckon this is the future, and its a great thing for all.

[Zhurdan]

It's all about attitude. Depending on how yours is greatly dictates how theirs will be. Pretty simple human interaction issue.

I've been stopped before while carrying. I was driving my truck down to the parts store to buy a replacement headlight and low and behold, I pass every single cop and highway in the town. Had my high beams on because they both still worked, but the second (last) highway unit I passed flashed his high beams at me to turn mine down. I did not as I would then have a light out. He flipped around and pulled me over. When he got to the door, I was cordial and smiling. I said "Good evening sir. For our mutual safety, I'd like to inform you that I have a permit to carry a handgun and am doing so." He returned the civil discourse by asking for my permit. Never asked to see the gun, but I told him where it was as I had to reach past it to get my wallet.

After that, it was on to why I didn't dim my lights (which I wouldn't think is an offense that warrants being pulled over, but that's besides the case) I told him the issue and where I was heading. He handed me back my permit and license and then proceeded to ask what I was carrying. I told him and we sat and chatted about guns for about 10 minutes.

Be civil, receive civility. Be a douche, receive douchiness.

[voodoo_man]

It's all about attitude. Depending on how yours is greatly dictates how theirs will be. Pretty simple human interaction issue.

I've been stopped before while carrying. I was driving my truck down to the parts store to buy a replacement headlight and low and behold, I pass every single cop and highway in the town. Had my high beams on because they both still worked, but the second (last) highway unit I passed flashed his high beams at me to turn mine down. I did not as I would then have a light out. He flipped around and pulled me over. When he got to the door, I was cordial and smiling. I said "Good evening sir. For our mutual safety, I'd like to inform you that I have a permit to carry a handgun and am doing so." He returned the civil discourse by asking for my permit. Never asked to see the gun, but I told him where it was as I had to reach past it to get my wallet.

After that, it was on to why I didn't dim my lights (which I wouldn't think is an offense that warrants being pulled over, but that's besides the case) I told him the issue and where I was heading. He handed me back my permit and license and then proceeded to ask what I was carrying. I told him and we sat and chatted about guns for about 10 minutes.

Be civil, receive civility. Be a douche, receive douchiness.

I have had a few conversations just like this one. If you have good interpersonal communication skills and at the very least feign some degree of cordiality it may be one of the best LEO-involved experiences you may have.

[F-Trooper05]

What exactly was the point of this video? To show how annoying open carry "advocates" can be?

[EVP]

I hate when people try to provoke our LEOs with crap like this. They have better things to do then deal with people trying to be smart asses.

If we honestly want to preserve our right to carry and give the uniformed public a positive view of what we believe and excercise, then people need to cut this crap out because it does not contribute anything positive.

[Zhurdan]

Please note, I was carrying concealed. I was just talking about the interaction part, not the "I need to make a statement to the world" part.:D

[LittleLebowski]

I hate when people try to provoke our LEOs with crap like this. They have better things to do then deal with people trying to be smart asses.

If we honestly want to preserve our right to carry and give the uniformed public a positive view of what we believe and excercise, then people need to cut this crap out because it does not contribute anything positive.

Agreed.

[BaiHu]

It's all about attitude. Depending on how yours is greatly dictates how theirs will be. Pretty simple human interaction issue....Be civil, receive civility. Be a douche, receive douchiness.

I agree. I've been pulled over doing some stupid speeding and I have been pulled over for doing nothing but thinking about making a left out of a food store that you're not supposed to, but I have never given an officer anything but the courtesy he/she deserves-I don't know the last 5 minutes of their lives and vice versa.

The guy was terse and dickish on the speeding and never stopped that behavior, but I didn't escalate, b/c he was in the right, even if he was a douche-he's holding the whip-hand. In the end, he was elemental in getting my ultimate penalty, fines, etc down less than half than it could've been.

The woman who pulled me over for 'thinking', I'm not even kidding you and she even said, "I saw you thinking about making that illegal left and that's why I pulled you over." For the record, I made a right. All I could do nothing but use all of my self-control not to laugh in her face and hand her my paperwork. I was in my own freaking town, less than a mile from my place. I went on my merry way and I've not seen her in years.

Those cops will remember this guy and he better hope he a) never needs them or b) never needs them to lean in his favor on a 50/50 issue.

[derekb]

This is what bugs me about these folks who record themselves arguing with the police over open carry.

Wouldn't it be ridiculously more productive to record themselves being polite and having positive interactions with the police while carrying?

[TCinVA]

This is what bugs me about these folks who record themselves arguing with the police over open carry.

Wouldn't it be ridiculously more productive to record themselves being polite and having positive interactions with the police while carrying?

Why, yes it would.

I have never been able to understand people who insist that they are carrying to be a showcase for a right and then insist on behaving like a boor about it. If you're going to take an action to promote consciousness of what you consider to be an important freedom, then be a good ambassador for it. I like political speech a lot and think it's very important, but I don't advance the cause of free speech by standing on a street corner screaming racial slurs through a megaphone at random passers by. If one wants to make the point that America is in moral decay they do not get others to consider their opinion seriously by deliberately trying to inflict grief on the families of fallen soldiers.

In short, behaving in an anti-social manner doesn't help the actual cause of promoting gun rights.

I suspect, however, that promotion of gun rights isn't really the primary cause in some cases. Now I'm an advocate of open carry being legal. I live in a state where any non-prohibited person can stroll down the street with an openly carried firearm without running afoul of any law, and I'd fight like the dickens to stop any effort to change that. I'm a member of the NRA and the VCDL, both of which receive contributions. I've been active in local, state, and national campaigns animated in large part by gun rights. It's safe to say I'm pro gun...and I've interacted with self-described "open carry" advocates who almost made me rethink the issue simply on the basis of what massive toolbags they were. I couldn't blame officers who had interacted with yahoos of that caliber for having a dim view of anybody who carries openly after some of their hijinks.

Someone looking for an excuse to have a negative interaction with law enforcement isn't helping anybody but the Brady bunch. Souring otherwise good officers with one's bad behavior is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. This stuff is chess, not checkers.

[Robert Mitchum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKPMFKwmspc

[rsa-otc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKPMFKwmspc

Exellent video. Makes me wish The Best Defence was available in my area.

[fixer]

Interesting video. There are tons of these on youtube.

I thought the officer did a good job of keeping his cool.

The camera guy could have been more cooperative. He knew the law and it made a difference in the interaction for about the first minute--then it went downill a bit.

[voodoo_man]

Interesting video. There are tons of these on youtube.

I thought the officer did a good job of keeping his cool.

The camera guy could have been more cooperative. He knew the law and it made a difference in the interaction for about the first minute--then it went downill a bit.

About the time when he started to quote case law is when the hill got real steep.

[LittleLebowski]

I have seen more and more LEOs with very small video cameras mounted on their head/shoulders. Like a much smaller contour roam.

I reckon this is the future, and its a great thing for all.

Agreed. Funny how all of the cops that I count as friends agree with this sentiment as well.

[Lon]

I have seen more and more LEOs with very small video cameras mounted on their head/shoulders. Like a much smaller contour roam.

I reckon this is the future, and its a great thing for all.

I carry one in my pen pocket. More of our officers are buying them as well. The one I have isn't real great, but it's been useful a few times already in the few months I've had it. Loaned it to others going on calls where they might need it (we have some mental people that like to accuse us of assault and rape when we deal with them).

[Ray Keith]

I carry one in my pen pocket. More of our officers are buying them as well. The one I have isn't real great, but it's been useful a few times already in the few months I've had it. Loaned it to others going on calls where they might need it (we have some mental people that like to accuse us of assault and rape when we deal with them).

I'm curious about this. Do the officers do this with the support of department policy or is policy silent on this type of personal recording? What is done with the video once it has been recorded? Is there a policy on the preservation of this video?

Thanks

[Lon]

I'm curious about this. Do the officers do this with the support of department policy or is policy silent on this type of personal recording? What is done with the video once it has been recorded? Is there a policy on the preservation of this video?

Thanks

That's a good question. We decided to record on our own. Policy does not require it other than our in car cameras (if they work). I burn the recordings to a disk (if there is a pending criminal charge and the prosecutor need it for discovery issues) and to our network hard drive. If there is no criminal charge it just goes on the hard drive.

Recordings turned in would have to follow the retention schedules required by state law.

[David Armstrong]

from Zhurdan:
After that, it was on to why I didn't dim my lights (which I wouldn't think is an offense that warrants being pulled over, but that's besides the case)
As a FWIW, failure to dim headlights is one of the cues looked for to indicate a drunk driver.

[Zhurdan]

As a FWIW, failure to dim headlights is one of the cues looked for to indicate a drunk driver.

Interesting. Won't need that tip, but interesting none the less. :D

[NEPAKevin]

I suspect, however, that promotion of gun rights isn't really the primary cause in some cases.

A suspicious person might even speculate the possibility of an attention whore endeavoring toward some form of sad and pathetic perceived fame. But, I'm not one to judge.

[Carraway]

I have to say I was hesitant to click on this thread and see the responses, as I have seen some other, far less reasonable responses concerning things such as this. I also believe that people doing things such as this are looking to provoke, gain attention and probably a reason for a lawsuit, and I can not see its doing anything other than further divide those on either side of firearm rights. I'm relieved to see reasoned responses here.

I have had quite a few interactions with police officers and, while a couple have been absurdly bad, most were courteous and professional, mainly as I was honest, polite and understood most of them were simply doing their jobs. I also come from a law enforcement family, which provides a lot of perspective. (If you're wondering why I've had quite a few LEO interactions, I used to regularly gig as a musician as well as take photos and write for tourism bureaus and the like, so I spent quite a few late nights / very early mornings out, which leads to some suspicion, particularly in smaller towns).