"Accidental" NFA Firearm

[bajasr100]

Hypothetical question here (Mods please move/delete if inappropriate)

What is the best course of action if someone inadvertently creates an NFA firearm? With an AR, it is as easy as separating the upper from the lower; a shotgun is almost the same, just remove the barrel(s). What if you have something that does not come apart so easily...say an early 92 or 94 Winchester that was converted to a mare's leg way back in the day? Destruction is not an option (well not a good one!). Could/should a gunsmith be able to remove the offending parts or would they be legally and/or ethically required to report?

Again, a thought exercise only!

[Gray Ghost]

Hypothetical question here (Mods please move/delete if inappropriate)

What is the best course of action if someone inadvertently creates an NFA firearm? With an AR, it is as easy as separating the upper from the lower; a shotgun is almost the same, just remove the barrel(s). What if you have something that does not come apart so easily...say an early 92 or 94 Winchester that was converted to a mare's leg way back in the day? Destruction is not an option (well not a good one!). Could/should a gunsmith be able to remove the offending parts or would they be legally and/or ethically required to report?

Again, a thought exercise only!

Consult a lawyer who is knowledgeable about NFA issues. Your conversations with said lawyer will be privileged.

[HCM]

Hypothetical question here (Mods please move/delete if inappropriate)

What is the best course of action if someone inadvertently creates an NFA firearm? With an AR, it is as easy as separating the upper from the lower; a shotgun is almost the same, just remove the barrel(s). What if you have something that does not come apart so easily...say an early 92 or 94 Winchester that was converted to a mare's leg way back in the day? Destruction is not an option (well not a good one!). Could/should a gunsmith be able to remove the offending parts or would they be legally and/or ethically required to report?

Again, a thought exercise only!

How early ? There are exceptions for pre-1898 guns that left the factory as SBRs etc. I’m aware of pre-1898 Winchester 1894s with 14” barrels and ATF exemption letters.

[CleverNickname]

I’m aware of pre-1898 Winchester 1894s with 14” barrels and ATF exemption letters.
If you look at the C&R list, the ones in the list are specifically exempted by serial number. IIRC those guns are all owned by government-funded museums.

To the OP's original question, one way to "solve" the problem would be to submit a form 1 to make it into an SBR or SBS or whatever. But submitting a form 1 is asking for permission to make an NFA firearm once the form is approved. It's not to register a firearm that already exists in NFA-regulated form. I'm sure more than a few people have registered such firearms after the fact, though.

The method with least potential for legal problems would be to strip the gun down to a bare receiver, then get a torch and chop up the receiver. Sell the other parts later if desired.

[ST911]

Hypothetical question here (Mods please move/delete if inappropriate) What is the best course of action if someone inadvertently creates an NFA firearm? With an AR, it is as easy as separating the upper from the lower; a shotgun is almost the same, just remove the barrel(s). What if you have something that does not come apart so easily...say an early 92 or 94 Winchester that was converted to a mare's leg way back in the day? Destruction is not an option (well not a good one!). Could/should a gunsmith be able to remove the offending parts or would they be legally and/or ethically required to report? Again, a thought exercise only!

In each of some examples I'm aware of that were legitimate errors, the smith immediately removed and destroyed (or lawfully repurposed) the offending component and repaired the firearm. When shenanigans were afoot, the smith refused the work. The times that LE or BATF was called, if the problem was resolved (and sometimes when it wasn't) they weren't interested unless there were other qualifying offenses or thresholds.

Legal and ethical reporting requirements are local and vary, but tend to not be an issue. This happens a lot.

[Malamute]

The method with least potential for legal problems would be to strip the gun down to a bare receiver, then get a torch and chop up the receiver. Sell the other parts later if desired.

Gads NO! Once the barrel is removed, theres no earthly reason to destroy a good receiver, especially something like an early 92 or 94, the receiver isnt the offending part, the barrel is. A bad barrel could be removed with a bench vise padded with brass on the jaws to hold the front end of the receiver and a pipe wrench used to remove the barrel. No need for special tools to remove a barrel thats junk, certainly not at the expense of the receiver. If nothing else, a piece of pipe could be welded to the end of the barrel to make it proper length until proper tools were available to replace it with a good one.

[Duke]

What if I didn’t tell anyone what’s in my pocket.......


The gummy bears aren’t going to jump out and give their position away to passers by

I’d take the gummy out before handing the pants off to a dry cleaner. Besides that Id feel the issue is well handled

[HCM]

If you look at the C&R list, the ones in the list are specifically exempted by serial number. IIRC those guns are all owned by government-funded museums.

To the OP's original question, one way to "solve" the problem would be to submit a form 1 to make it into an SBR or SBS or whatever. But submitting a form 1 is asking for permission to make an NFA firearm once the form is approved. It's not to register a firearm that already exists in NFA-regulated form. I'm sure more than a few people have registered such firearms after the fact, though.

The method with least potential for legal problems would be to strip the gun down to a bare receiver, then get a torch and chop up the receiver. Sell the other parts later if desired.

I’ve seen at least one for sale at Cabelas gun room.

[CleverNickname]

Gads NO! Once the barrel is removed, theres no earthly reason to destroy a good receiver, especially something like an early 92 or 94, the receiver isnt the offending part, the barrel is. A bad barrel could be removed with a bench vise padded with brass on the jaws to hold the front end of the receiver and a pipe wrench used to remove the barrel. No need for special tools to remove a barrel thats junk, certainly not at the expense of the receiver. If nothing else, a piece of pipe could be welded to the end of the barrel to make it proper length until proper tools were available to replace it with a good one.

I guess I should clarify, "bare receiver" in the sense that it would still have a barrel attached to it. If our theoretical gun owner can remove a barrel, then there's no problem, he can save the receiver. But if he can't remove the barrel, a short barrel on a rifle receiver is still a problem, so the only solutions that don't involve taking the gun to a gunsmith are registration or destruction. I guess he could try removing the barrel himself and if he screws it up too badly, then he's no worse than if he just sets out to destroy the receiver in the first place.

[Lon]

I don’t think registration at this point is an option. Look at section 3.2.1

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download

Maybe it can be removed from under the NFA - see section 2.4.

Best bet is to check w a good NFA knowledgeable attorney.

[Duke]

The best bet would just be to shut the fuck up and realize it’s a 50+ year old piece of metal not a tracking device.


Wander down to a local FAT D office and confess? Destroy something of intrinsic value? No thanks



There’s a real case to be made for Less goody 2 shoes, more shutting up and keeping away from attention that would ever reveal an antique of questionable origin.

I really don’t know where this permission seeking mentality comes from.


No one is telling anyone to buy coat hangers off wish dot com.


This ain’t the same ball park

[Casual Friday]

First rule of fight club.

[bajasr100]

The best bet would just be to shut the fuck up and realize it’s a 50+ year old piece of metal not a tracking device.


Wander down to a local FAT D office and confess? Destroy something of intrinsic value? No thanks



There’s a real case to be made for Less goody 2 shoes, more shutting up and keeping away from attention that would ever reveal an antique of questionable origin.

I really don’t know where this permission seeking mentality comes from.


No one is telling anyone to buy coat hangers off wish dot com.


This ain’t the same ball park

For some reason, this reminded me ot this scene...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPnLwRdrYE

Anyhow, appreciate the discussion. The question was posed to me more as a way of turning something not particularly useful in its current configuration into something more enjoyable/practical while still realizing it will never regain its historical value.

[Rex G]

Hypothetical question here (Mods please move/delete if inappropriate)

What is the best course of action if someone inadvertently creates an NFA firearm? With an AR, it is as easy as separating the upper from the lower; a shotgun is almost the same, just remove the barrel(s).

Disassembly, for cleaning or storage purposes, does not create a new type of firearm. An AR15, without an upper unit, is minus a barrel, so cannot be an SBR. Same case with the shotgun; I am not committing a felony every time I remove the barrel.

One must exercise due care, if one has short barrels, or pistol/short-barreled uppers, to reassemble them onto the correct serialized receivers.

I would be additionally careful not to store disassembled parts, together, if they would be illegal if reassembled. For example, if I were to remove an AR pistol upper, from its pistol lower unit, I would keep it reasonably far away from any separated lower unit that belonged to an AR rifle.

This is my pragmatic, non-legal opinion, and is only in regard to that which I quoted.

[Rex G]

Hypothetical question here (Mods please move/delete if inappropriate)

What if you have something that does not come apart so easily...say an early 92 or 94 Winchester that was converted to a mare's leg way back in the day? Destruction is not an option (well not a good one!). Could/should a gunsmith be able to remove the offending parts or would they be legally and/or ethically required to report?

Again, a thought exercise only!

This part requires consultation with an attorney, who has the credentials to provide the answer. The average “family lawyer” will probably have no clue.

[Rex G]

Here is a link to a non-NFA Winchester Trapper Carbine, with a 15” barrel, on the BATFE Curio & Relic list. (When it sells, the link will no longer work.)

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-model-1894-trapper-30-wcf-w10808/

[Duke]

For some reason, this reminded me ot this scene...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPnLwRdrYE

Anyhow, appreciate the discussion. The question was posed to me more as a way of turning something not particularly useful in its current configuration into something more enjoyable/practical while still realizing it will never regain its historical value.

Thanks.

My post wasn’t meant as an attack nor a needlessly cavalier suggestion

No one wants their dog killed.

But dirt is dirty and it’s all over the place. Someone digging up your tulip garden at random searching for the purest
soil is unlikely to an extreme degree

[bajasr100]

Duke

No worries, no offense taken (or meant) at all. My advice was actually pretty close to what you posted.