The Accumulated Wisdom of the late Pat Rogers

[Tensaw]

Okay so it’s early and I am still working on getting my caffeine/blood ratio corrected, so this may be off base, but what the hell...

I was thinking about my small collection of Jeff Cooper’s writings (which I enjoy for their style if not moreso than content) and was also thinking about how to get a couple of folks who are new to AR’s/gunfighting up to speed. It occurred to me that if there was come compilation of Pat Roger’s instructional material available, that would be a pretty good start for getting them going in the right direction. Too, saving something like that for posterity would be pretty great as well. Problem is, the best I can tell, the late great Pat’s writings were largely forum postings (on LF?), magazine articles, and some videos.

Is there someone who is accessible to “us” who would have the ability to source Pat’s work? I wonder how hard it would be to assimilate all of that into some sort of package. Seems like a fitting tribute to the man. (Thinking in terms of something published with the permission, and for the benefit, of his estate; not just ripping off his life’s work for distribution.) Seems to me this would have to start with someone who is connected to his family and has an understanding of what would be valuable for publication.

[rd62]

I don't know about books, but Panteo has a few of their Make Ready Videos featuring Pat as best I recall.

[Gater]

Is SWAT Magazine still around? That seemed to be where most of Pat’s later writing was published. It’s more complicated than it seems, I’m sure, but those folks would likely be best positioned to understand the copyrights and potentially to publish a Book of Pat collection.

[LittleLebowski]

I hope this happens. I miss that man.

[ST911]

Some years ago, John Farnam published an anthology of his periodic quips email, "quips, quotes, and lessons learned."

I'd like to see such a work from several other people, esp Pat.

[Hambo]

Is there someone who is accessible to “us” who would have the ability to source Pat’s work?

Dagga Boy Tamara

[UNM1136]

I hope this happens. I miss that man.

Me too. He was involved as I was forming my instructional capabilities. I feel like a name dropper every time I credit him, but I hung on his every word....SWAT Magazine, Lightfighter, 10-8 Forums, even back to Tactical Forums with a few members here I still respect. Then one of my best friends went to Gunsite for a 250 class put on by him and Chris Dwiggins, and didn't own a cell phone nor email address, so I was the POC. And a local class.

I still have a bunch of web pages bookmarked and a ton of old SWAT mags that I would review more often, but for the wear.

pat

[Colt191145lover]

I pray this happens!

[Ed L]

Is SWAT Magazine still around? That seemed to be where most of Pat’s later writing was published. It’s more complicated than it seems, I’m sure, but those folks would likely be best positioned to understand the copyrights and potentially to publish a Book of Pat collection.

Sadly, SWAT Magazine closed its doors a few years ago. So I don't see them putting anything out. I am not sure when Pat started to write for them or if all of his articles are located in electronic form on any single computer.

Pat also had a lot of online postings on forums. While they certainly were not as long or as comprehensive as his articles, they were just as memorable and contained a lot of his wisdom in a more diffuse form. His posts contained numerous bits and pieces of diverse knowledge that were not covered in his articles.

Some time ago on a forum that is no longer here, someone accumulated a small number of his quotes and posted them. I added a few to them.


THE WISDOM (?) OF PAT ROGERS
Gathered at a Carbine Operator's Course conducted by EAG Tactical Training at the Dane County LE Training Center 13-14-15 May 2007

"How long does a gunfight last? The rest of your life . . ."

Question: “how much ammunition do you need in a gunfight.
Answer: “All of it.

“Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.”

“Training is best conducted when the shooter and his gear are in synch. If any portion of that train rolls off the tracks, the overall quality of training- for all hands suffers.”

"While shooting is relatively easy to teach, fighting isn’t. This is especially true for those who have never experienced an emergency, been in a fist fight and whose exposure to a fight is theoretical.”

"With the current state of pussyness rampant in this country, most have never actually been in a fist fight. This also includes most cops."

"Mindset issues have always been difficult, because only a few are blessed (blessed?) with that mean gene that permits them to fight other bipeds to the death without remorse. Not many can embrace the hate efficiently."

“Theory has a nasty habit of falling by the wayside when the enemy has a vote...”

“At close range, the ability to get a working gun in your hand is a priority. Unfortunately, a great many have difficulty in understanding this...”

"Get a working gun in your hand and then continue to shoot smelly bearded men wearing man dresses in the face.

"If you people could just FOLLOW DIRECTIONS ONE TIME my heart would soar like an eagle . . ."

"Don't be in a hurry to do it wrong."

“There are two ways to do most anything, right... and again.”

"Repetition is the mother of skill."

"If you're a cop, there are 5 major food groups: Eat in. Take out. Frozen. Pizza. Beer."

"Well, that IS difficult, but NOT impossible."

"Make it work and drive on."

"I like the idea of drugs. It kills a lot of useless people. Just not soon enough."

"I dunno'...seems simple to me."

"Courage is endurance, for one moment more..."

"The rapidity at which violence occurs stuns most."

"These guns don't have to be spotlessly clean. They need to be REALISTICALLY clean"

"Don't fall in love with your magazines. They're expendable items. If it doesn't work, get rid of it and buy another."

"In my career, between the NYPD and the Marine Corps, I had the opportunity to attend lots of training classes. Many of those classes dealt with firearms or tactics. A lot of the training I participated in was real good. However, I did discover that after you go to about 12 or 14 shooting classes, you find that you don't learn much new material from any one class, because your base of knowledge is already established."

"After you shoot guns enough, it starts to get boring. The point at which boredom sets in varies with the individual . . . "

“Remember that the BG has a vote in all of this.
The BG will generally decide when the fight starts, and determines when the fight stops (that is, when he is incapacitated or gives up).”

“Fast misses are just as ineffective as the slow shot that you didn't get off.”

"In a class, nobody works harder than me, and nobody has more fun than me. I believe in training hard and having a good time. HOWEVER I am a safety-Nazi in class. We have to be. We have no tolerance for careless behavior with firearms. I'm retired from both the Marine Corps and the NYPD, and in all those years of service I've only been actually shot once, and that was by a student . . ."

"When I was in Viet Nam at the war, I had the opportunity to be in an awkward situation a bunch of times, where we were advancing faster than the NVA could retreat, or we were retreating slower than they were advancing. Under such circumstances, we got a lot of shooting in. Of course, I was in the Marine Corps and in the Corps we really don't "retreat" -- we attack in another direction."

"As a short little Irishman, I have one advantage over you big tall guys. I can shoot on the move better than you, because my stride is shorter, and I don't bounce. I'm a more stable shooting platform"

"When do cops usually use rifles? Up close. When do soldiers or Marines in urban combat use rifles? Up close, across the room, or across the street. In that application, the carbine is almost used like a big and more powerful pistol. Under these circumstances, your most typical distance of engagement is probably going to be from point blank range out to about 30 yards."

"If you analyze the dynamics of a gunfight, whether it's the military or in law enforcement, the details are usually quite similar. The action is fast and furious for a short time. The survivors will retreat to cover and reload. The action may or may not continue on from there. In this circumstance, your first reload in the fight may be very important to your continued survival . . ."

"Gunfights within the confines of structures are violent and exciting affairs. The ability to deliver rapid, accurate shots into a threat will determine whether you will have a war story or a Memorial Softball Field named after you."

"If you steal material from one guy, that's called "plagiarism". If you steal it from a bunch of guys, it's called "research". I'm a researcher. I've never invented anything in my life, and I've never named anything after myself."

"Smart people often "over-drive their headlights". Because they have developed expertise in one area, they make the mistake of presuming they have expertise in other areas, when they really don't. Wisdom is knowing what you know, and knowing what you DON'T know."

"In training, there are primary skills and secondary skills. You need to know the difference, and you need to prioritize your training efforts to focus on the primary skills. None of us will probably ever have all the time or the money or the equipment or the ammo that we want, so you have to make some decisions about which skills you need to devote valuable training time and resources on."

"The first rule of training is to survive the experience. When conducting training, you need to be safe in your procedures. You need to stay hydrated. You can't get over-heated, you can't freeze, and you can't get hypothermiated. If you have pre-existing injuries to your back or your knees or whatever, don't get hurt in training. Participate in those exercises you can do safely and without injury and press on."

"Here's my best advice. Buy a big goofy happy friendly dog. In the morning, walk your dog around the neighborhood and let all the kids play with your dog. That way, everybody in town will think that you're a hell of a nice guy, even if you aren't."

"If you see Osama bin Laden walking down the street in Washington, DC, and you draw your pistol and kill him and his two bodyguards, and then you shoot yourself reholstering, you're still an assclown."


"No shit. For years we were told that a *head* shot was the answer to all issues.

Talking with Jeff Cooper about an incident where the Manhattan South Duty Captain who ended a Hostage job by putting six rounds of 158gr SWCL into the grape of the mutt, who had poured a flammable substance onto the head of the hostage and was attempting to light it.

Cooper was aghast, and said "Why six? One was all that was necessary".

People are a lot more resilient than many people think.
His frame of reference was clearly different than ours..."

S/F

Pat sends

[BobM]

I would buy a book if someone publishes it. I never took a class from him but started reading her work in the old Tactical Shooter magazine that the Precision Shooting people put out way back.

[UNK]

Just when you thought the .45 vs 9mm wars were over...😂





"No shit. For years we were told that a *head* shot was the answer to all issues.

Talking with Jeff Cooper about an incident where the Manhattan South Duty Captain who ended a Hostage job by putting six rounds of 158gr SWCL into the grape of the mutt, who had poured a flammable substance onto the head of the hostage and was attempting to light it.

Cooper was aghast, and said "Why six? One was all that was necessary".

People are a lot more resilient than many people think.
His frame of reference was clearly different than ours..."

S/F

Pat sends

[smithjd]

SWAT Magazine’s online archives / searched Pat Rogers (definitely not all of his articles, but a start):

http://www.swatvault.com/?s=Pat+Rogers

Agreed on all the above. We remain diminished.

[okie john]

Okay so it’s early and I am still working on getting my caffeine/blood ratio corrected, so this may be off base, but what the hell...

I was thinking about my small collection of Jeff Cooper’s writings (which I enjoy for their style if not moreso than content) and was also thinking about how to get a couple of folks who are new to AR’s/gunfighting up to speed. It occurred to me that if there was come compilation of Pat Roger’s instructional material available, that would be a pretty good start for getting them going in the right direction. Too, saving something like that for posterity would be pretty great as well. Problem is, the best I can tell, the late great Pat’s writings were largely forum postings (on LF?), magazine articles, and some videos.

Is there someone who is accessible to “us” who would have the ability to source Pat’s work? I wonder how hard it would be to assimilate all of that into some sort of package. Seems like a fitting tribute to the man. (Thinking in terms of something published with the permission, and for the benefit, of his estate; not just ripping off his life’s work for distribution.) Seems to me this would have to start with someone who is connected to his family and has an understanding of what would be valuable for publication.

Gathering his published material is one task. Posters here could probably identify all of it within a year or so. Republishing would take longer because of the copyright issues.

As you stated, gathering his online posts it's probably more important, but it's a different task. His articles and videos identify a problem, then describe and demonstrate solutions. But threads drift, so taking a line or two out of context could open his words to misinterpretation and would leave a lot of valuable ideas out of the conversation.

Take for instance,
"After you shoot guns enough, it starts to get boring. The point at which boredom sets in varies with the individual . . . "

Why did Pat Rogers—of all people—say that? What greater lesson lies within the idea of a storied gunfighter getting bored with shooting? How could that lesson keep one of us alive someday? I’d bet it’s in the rest of that story. So instead of collecting posts, it might be better to collect the threads that contain his posts.

A guy named Allen Day used to post at 24hourcampfire. He was one of the most experienced hunters and shooters that I've ever encountered. His opinions were conservative (with a strong emphasis on the basics) but they came from his experience, which was off the charts. His posts responded to ideas from multiple posters and gave each exactly the right weight in light of the subject at hand. After he died, I saved a search that links to all of his posts, and I still reread them from time to time.

Pat Rogers worked the same way. Maybe the PF mods (who are shit) could link to a collection of threads in which he posted. Then we could read the archive, hear the conversations as they evolved, and hear his words in context.


Okie John

[Erick Gelhaus]

Another source ... before SWAT, he had articles appear in Tactical Shooter, a more sniper-like / pre-SDM version of Precision Shooter.

Someone who understands the errornet "way back," or archive, sites could tell us how easy it would be to find and cull the material from The Firing Line, TacForums, and 10-8.

[Chance]

Just in case anyone's interested: Panteao has all of Pat's DVDs bundled (https://panteao.com/product/the-pat-rogers-collection/) and has a 40% off sale going for Black Friday.

[okie john]

Just in case anyone's interested: Panteao has all of Pat's DVDs bundled (https://panteao.com/product/the-pat-rogers-collection/) and has a 40% off sale going for Black Friday.

This is a big step in the right direction.


Okie John

[Dr_Thanatos]

Massive amount of Pat's Awesomeness



The only thing missing was "I MUST BE A BAD INSTRUCTOR, BECAUSE IT IS THE (END OF DAY ONE/START OF DAY TWO/ETC.) AND I HAVE NOT YET COVERED PUSH/PULL!"

I swear, I push/pull every freakin' time. Cause I didn't want to be "That guy." Now, it's just habit, and that was his goal all along.

I've met some incredible people. Many of them I will be sad when they leave this world. But I won't miss them.

I miss Pat.

[overton]

He gave me great advice on how to deal with my first dogs (a Rotti) death.

I really like this speech:

https://youtu.be/0Ej-xCW_YQs

[Erick Gelhaus]

I've met some incredible people. Many of them I will be sad when they leave this world. But I won't miss them.



A couple weeks ago, I took Tom Givens' instructor development class. Also attending was a copper I knew through Pat but had never met. The familial abuse started in the classroom and continued all three days.

Others have said it, Pat's greatest work - and it will be his longest-lasting tribute - is the sheer number of people he connected with other. 4+ years after his passing, those people continue to connect and work together for the benefit of the communities Pat worked within.

[Balisong]

Just in case anyone's interested: Panteao has all of Pat's DVDs bundled (https://panteao.com/product/the-pat-rogers-collection/) and has a 40% off sale going for Black Friday.

Adding that to my Christmas list, thanks.

[Wyoming Shooter]

I did a Gunsite 556 class and an EAG LEO carbine class with Pat. I learned much and we became friends. Some of his words of wisdom: "See the fucker. Shoot the fucker." The man is missed. ELN

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

He gave me great advice on how to deal with my first dogs (a Rotti) death.

I really like this speech:

https://youtu.be/0Ej-xCW_YQs

Thx for posting that, haven't watched in a few yrs. but time to do so again this week.

[Sig_Fiend]

I've thought about this subject off and on for quite awhile. Gomez was the first one that had me reeling when he passed away. Then there was Awerbuck, Mike Voigt, Ron Avery, Chuck Taylor. I think there are others in the past decade, but those were the ones that came to mind.

Why don't we immortalize them in a website? We could start with Pat. I'd be glad to build it and foot any expenses. My research skills are strong, so I can do the grunt work of compiling the data as well. I'm fucking serious about this. I've been needing another project to pour my soul into for quite the next while.

What would be the best way to start that conversation, and with who? Personally, I'd want to keep this ethical, respectful, and only with the blessing of those closest to him. It would probably be most appropriate if it's a group of people (from here and/or wherever) involved and making decisions on the implementation details so there's no concerns of fly-by-night shenanigans.

[UNM1136]

If Ellen approves I will send you my collection of SWAT back issues/articles.

pat

[LittleLebowski]

I'm tight with John Friscia and there's also a guy on here in the background working on things. I expect he'll chime in soon on this project. PF will support anything and everything to preserve Uncle Pat's wisdom and jokes.

[Poconnor]

I treasure my memories of Pat. I only took two classes from him and a handful of emails exchanges but he had a profound effect on me. There needs to a book of his collected works; similar to Louis Awedbuck’s book.
As for quotes- “launch a Democrat” is still funny to me and not one mention of a moosecock?
Here is a link to some classic Pat- “death on a sunny afternoon”
https://youtu.be/HvQJtqv5ZFs

[MistWolf]

Here is a link to some classic Pat- “death on a sunny afternoon”
https://youtu.be/HvQJtqv5ZFs

... and that, my friends, is why you use a stick to kill rattlers

[Gater]

Here's a partial bibliography of some of his "core" carbine articles from SWAT mag. I recently purged my back issues of SWAT, but found myself tearing out many of his articles (non-gear review stuff) to save. I probably have most of these.

63657

[Bruce Cartwright]

Folks:

I read this thread with great interest. As some of you may know, Pat was a dear friend and mentor. Colonel Jeff Cooper once opined that anything worth remembering was worth writing down. Pat did that. I believe that Pat's accumulated writings/wisdom need to be maintained. I attempted to compile a list/bibliography of Pat's writings shortly after he passed away with limited success. Returning to that task has always been on my mind. To that end, I reached out to Little Lebowski and obtained his blessing to augment my limited bibliography of Pat's writings via Pistol Forum ("PF").

As a result, I hereby volunteer to act as a clearinghouse for information that PF members care to share regarding Pat's writings. I created an excel spreadsheet containing a partial list of Pat's articles from SWAT Magazine. I reached out to a dear friend (whom I met through a Pat class) who has graciously added to the spreadsheet. My goal is to compile as complete a bibliography for Pat as possible. Once I do that, I will post the resulting spreadsheet here on PF.

If you are so inclined, please send me a private message ("PM") through PF with the following information:
1. Publication that Pat's article appeared in (Example: SWAT Magazine);
2. Date of the article (Example: "September 2009" is sufficient);
3. Title of the article;
4. Do you possess an actual physical copy of the article;
5. Any other pertinent information;
6. Your contact information (just in case I need additional information);

Here is a summary of what I have as of November 2020:

SWAT Magazine:
1. 2009: All months accounted for.
2. 2010: No information.
3. 2011: All months accounted for.
4. 2012: All months accounted for.
5. 2013: No information.
6. 2014: All months accounted for.
7. 2015: All months accounted for.
8. 2016: All months accounted for.
9. 2017: January to September accounted for.

I have no idea when Pat started writing for SWAT magazine, nor if he wrote for other publications (I think he did). I believe Pat's last article was published in SWAT Magazine in the August 2017 issue. I was in the middle of a retirement/move/house build in 2017 and lost track of SWAT magazine although I understand they ceased producing a paper publication at some point.

I also know Pat posted prolifically on various internet forums such as Lightfighter Tactical. Some of Pat's posts were very detailed and also worthy of being retained. How we accomplish that I do not know, but would like to see if it could be done.

I am reaching out to other folks who knew/worked with Pat to see if I can get any additional information. If you have any suggested leads, please let me know.

Thank you to Little Lebowski for supporting this. Thanks in advance to all who provide information.

Bruce

[Erick Gelhaus]

Fwiw, I've got a number of Pat's older articles - 00s - in digital format, either scanned or downloaded.

[JohnO]

Those not fully up to speed on what made Pat tick and who he was should watch this.


https://youtu.be/6z97sgItvU4

[BobM]

Folks:

I read this thread with great interest. As some of you may know, Pat was a dear friend and mentor. Colonel Jeff Cooper once opined that anything worth remembering was worth writing down. Pat did that. I believe that Pat's accumulated writings/wisdom need to be maintained. I attempted to compile a list/bibliography of Pat's writings shortly after he passed away with limited success. Returning to that task has always been on my mind. To that end, I reached out to Little Lebowski and obtained his blessing to augment my limited bibliography of Pat's writings via Pistol Forum ("PF").

As a result, I hereby volunteer to act as a clearinghouse for information that PF members care to share regarding Pat's writings. I created an excel spreadsheet containing a partial list of Pat's articles from SWAT Magazine. I reached out to a dear friend (whom I met through a Pat class) who has graciously added to the spreadsheet. My goal is to compile as complete a bibliography for Pat as possible. Once I do that, I will post the resulting spreadsheet here on PF.

If you are so inclined, please send me a private message ("PM") through PF with the following information:
1. Publication that Pat's article appeared in (Example: SWAT Magazine);
2. Date of the article (Example: "September 2009" is sufficient);
3. Title of the article;
4. Do you possess an actual physical copy of the article;
5. Any other pertinent information;
6. Your contact information (just in case I need additional information);

Here is a summary of what I have as of November 2020:

SWAT Magazine:
1. 2009: All months accounted for.
2. 2010: No information.
3. 2011: All months accounted for.
4. 2012: All months accounted for.
5. 2013: No information.
6. 2014: All months accounted for.
7. 2015: All months accounted for.
8. 2016: All months accounted for.
9. 2017: January to September accounted for.

I have no idea when Pat started writing for SWAT magazine, nor if he wrote for other publications (I think he did). I believe Pat's last article was published in SWAT Magazine in the August 2017 issue. I was in the middle of a retirement/move/house build in 2017 and lost track of SWAT magazine although I understand they ceased producing a paper publication at some point.

I also know Pat posted prolifically on various internet forums such as Lightfighter Tactical. Some of Pat's posts were very detailed and also worthy of being retained. How we accomplish that I do not know, but would like to see if it could be done.

I am reaching out to other folks who knew/worked with Pat to see if I can get any additional information. If you have any suggested leads, please let me know.

Thank you to Little Lebowski for supporting this. Thanks in advance to all who provide information.

Bruce

I have all of the Tactical Shooter magazines, I can make an article list after deer season.

[rcbusmc24]

I talked with Justin Dyal about this stuff yesterday while we both at our favorite gun shop. I asked if he knew if Pat had a database of all his writings as he was heavily involved in Pat's estate, as well as being a writer for SWAT ( as Ethan John and then under his own name after retiring...). Unfortunately Pat didn't have a repository nor
is SWATs old database accessable. There was supposed to be a book of Pat's stuff, A la Awerbucks books, published by SWAT but it never happened before they shut down....

I, along with others, am still on lightfighter and I'm willing to search through there for his stuff. Unfortunately due to " incidents" a lot of stuff has been memory holed there as well....

[Sig_Fiend]

I asked if he knew if Pat had a database of all his writings as he was heavily involved in Pat's estate, as well as being a writer for SWAT ( as Ethan John and then under his own name after retiring...).

Just to confirm, is anything from S.W.A.T. mag, authored as "Ethan John", actually Pat's pseudonym? I already started compiling my own independent list, and I can add the Ethan John articles as well.

I've shared my list with Bruce and am not making it public yet until I hear from him and how he'd prefer it be handled. I think it's best if we get to a point of a single source of truth for this. That way work isn't being duplicated. It would also be great if it was version controlled (I have solutions for this) so we'd have a running history of updates to track everything, revert errant updates, etc.

[rcbusmc24]

Ethan John's was Justin Dyal's alternate name before he retired from active duty....

[Poconnor]

Anybody know what happened to SWAT magazine? Who owns the rights to Pats articles? Has anybody reached out to Rich Lucibella, (owner and Publisher of S.W.A.T. Magazine since 2001,) or Denny Hansen?

[BobM]

Ethan John's was Justin Dyal's alternate name before he retired from active duty....

I did not realize that. I’d also buy a compilation of his articles.

[drummer]

Years ago, I recall emailing SWAT magazine to inquire about a Pat compilation. I believe it was Denny Hanson who replied that they were working on something.

I just pulled all of my old issues and have most of them from 2004 to when I cancelled in 2013. I seem to be missing a few from 2011 and one month from 2010. Otherwise, they seem to be here.

[LittleLebowski]

Somebody remind me to hit up Pat’s lawyer (Friscia) after Thanksgiving.

[Jeff22]

I think Pat may have written a few articles for Combat Handguns back in the late 90s using "Patrick K. Rogers" as his author name

[drummer]

Okay, so I took some time last night and went through my old issues of SWAT magazine. This is what I came up with:

October 2001 - Full Spectrum Battle Equipment

July 2002 - Carbine Manipulation Tips

December 2003 - Ergonomic Carbine Stocks
October 2003 - Carbine Magazine Pouches

January 2004 - The AN/PVS-17B Mini Night Vision Sight
March 2004 - Oregon Aero
June 2004 - The M1511 Interim Fast Attack Vehicle
August 2004 - The Quick Peek Revisited
September 2004 - Multi Environment Camouflage (Crye Uniforms)
October/ November 2004 - The LMT MRP Carbine
December 2004 - Larue Tactical Rings and Mounts

March 2005 - Weapon-Mounted White Lights
April 2005 - The MEU(SOC) Pistol
July 2005 - Backup Iron Sights
August 2005 - Surefire’s M600 Scout Light
September 2005 - John Noveske CQB Barrels and the Krink
November 2005 - Close Combat Optical Sights
December 2005 - Instructor Profile (Capt. Ken Campbell)

January 2006 - Beta Company Magazine Loaders
February 2006 - Magazine Redux
March 2006 - Tertiary Lights
April 2006 - Larue LT170/LT171/LMK
May 2006 - Pre-Engagement Sequencing
July 2006 - 10-8 Performance Rear Sight
September 2006 - AK Series Rifles
October 2006 - Cool Tools for the AR-15
November 2006 - Operator’s Diagnostic Course
December 2006 - Keep Your Carbine Running

January 2007 - Hands-Free Illumination (Surefire’s HL 1-A-TN)
March 2007 - Small Caliber Machineguns
April 2007 - Eye of the Beholder (Search for the Perfect Carbine)
May 2007 - Keep Your Head in the Fight!
June 2007 - Self-Training Myths
July 2007 - Don’t Fight Your Sling
August 2007 - Making Sure that You are Making Sure
September 2007 - Pre-Training Equipment Issues
October 2007 - Holy Grail of ARs (SLR15)
November 2007 - The Takeout Bag
December 2007 - CSM Gear OTN Helmet Light Bracket

January 2008 - Running the Red Dot Right
February 2008 - Offset
March 2008 - More Carbine Tips
April 2008 - Red Dot Down!
May 2008 - A Tale of Three Smiths
June 2008 - Effects of Change
July 2008 - Shooting on the Move
August 2008 - Life in a Faster Lane (Trident Concepts Carbine Operators Course)
September 2008 - Jammin’ Mags
October 2008 - Lamb Universal Sling Attachment
November 2008 - Aimpoint M4S
December 2008 - Malfunction Reduction

February 2009 - Size Matters!
March 2009 - Ultimate Endurance Test (LWRC M6A1)
April 2009 - Proper Stock Placement
May 2009 - Locked and Checked
June 2009 - Cliffhanger! (Colt LE6940)
July 2009 - Magazine Madness
August 2009 - White Light Placement
October 2009 - Bulletproof Mind
November 2009 - Alternative Prone
December 2009 - Men’s Intuition (Sight Picture Efficiency)

January 2010 - Charged Up (Bravo Company Gunfighter’s Chargind Handle)
April 2010 - Passing the Torch (Laser Devices OV-2 Weapon Light)
May 2010 - Fight the Future (Importance of Follow Through)
June 2010 - Minimal Efficiency
July 2010 - Explosive Conclusion! (Colt LE6940 Saga Ends After 17,600 Rounds)
August 2010 - Surgical Shooting (Measuring Mechanical Offset)
September 2010 - Built to Excel (PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube)
October 2010 - Filthy 14
December 2010 - From Dusk to Dawn (LMS Defense Low Light/ No Light Course)

January 2011 - Sighting Alternatives
March 2011 - The Shoot House
April 2011 - Self-Training
May 2011 - Habitual Association (Get Comfortable with your Guns and Gear)
July 2011 - Counterpoint: The Press Check
September 2011 - Proper Helmet Fit
October 2011 - Personal Kit (Solving Equipment Issues)
November 2011 - Transition Techniques

January 2012 - Carbine Chicas
February 2012 - Scan and Assess
March 2012 - The Mechanical Safety
April 2012 - Defaulting to Zero
May 2012 - Indispensable Utility Kit (BFG Boo Boo Pouch)
June 2012 - Hit Me With Your Best Shot (Proper Bullet Placement)
July 2012 - Putting Down the Man Gun (Why I Switched to 9mm)
August 2012 - Dont Be a Zero When You Zero
September 2012 - Get A Handle on Things (BCM Gunfighter Grip)
October 2012 - Levels of Achievement (Journey to Shooting Proficiency)
November 2012 - Let There Be Lights (Really Bright Lights)

January 2013 - Overdue Optic Protection
February 2013 - Class-Ready Kit (Part 1: The War Belt)
March 2013 - Class-Ready Kit (Part 2: The Chest Rig)
April 2013 - Problem Solving for Gunfighters
May 2013 - Train Like It’s 2013
July 2013 - The Patrol Rifle
August 2013 - Why A Weapon-Mounted Light?
September 2013 - Two Steps Beyond (Force-on-Force Training with LMS Defense)
October 2013 - Open for Learning
December 2013 - Distance Shooting

[Bruce Cartwright]

Fwiw, I've got a number of Pat's older articles - 00s - in digital format, either scanned or downloaded.

Erick:

Thanks for letting me know. I'll reach out via PM to sort out the details.

Thanks again, brother.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

I have all of the Tactical Shooter magazines, I can make an article list after deer season.

BobM:

Please do and reach out via PM when you get things compiled. Many thanks.

Hopefully you will have success in the hunting fields.

Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

Okay, so I took some time last night and went through my old issues of SWAT magazine. This is what I came up with:

October 2001 - Full Spectrum Battle Equipment

July 2002 - Carbine Manipulation Tips

December 2003 - Ergonomic Carbine Stocks
October 2003 - Carbine Magazine Pouches

January 2004 - The AN/PVS-17B Mini Night Vision Sight
March 2004 - Oregon Aero
June 2004 - The M1511 Interim Fast Attack Vehicle
August 2004 - The Quick Peek Revisited
September 2004 - Multi Environment Camouflage (Crye Uniforms)
October/ November 2004 - The LMT MRP Carbine
December 2004 - Larue Tactical Rings and Mounts

March 2005 - Weapon-Mounted White Lights
April 2005 - The MEU(SOC) Pistol
July 2005 - Backup Iron Sights
August 2005 - Surefire’s M600 Scout Light
September 2005 - John Noveske CQB Barrels and the Krink
November 2005 - Close Combat Optical Sights
December 2005 - Instructor Profile (Capt. Ken Campbell)

January 2006 - Beta Company Magazine Loaders
February 2006 - Magazine Redux
March 2006 - Tertiary Lights
April 2006 - Larue LT170/LT171/LMK
May 2006 - Pre-Engagement Sequencing
July 2006 - 10-8 Performance Rear Sight
September 2006 - AK Series Rifles
October 2006 - Cool Tools for the AR-15
November 2006 - Operator’s Diagnostic Course
December 2006 - Keep Your Carbine Running

January 2007 - Hands-Free Illumination (Surefire’s HL 1-A-TN)
March 2007 - Small Caliber Machineguns
April 2007 - Eye of the Beholder (Search for the Perfect Carbine)
May 2007 - Keep Your Head in the Fight!
June 2007 - Self-Training Myths
July 2007 - Don’t Fight Your Sling
August 2007 - Making Sure that You are Making Sure
September 2007 - Pre-Training Equipment Issues
October 2007 - Holy Grail of ARs (SLR15)
November 2007 - The Takeout Bag
December 2007 - CSM Gear OTN Helmet Light Bracket

January 2008 - Running the Red Dot Right
February 2008 - Offset
March 2008 - More Carbine Tips
April 2008 - Red Dot Down!
May 2008 - A Tale of Three Smiths
June 2008 - Effects of Change
July 2008 - Shooting on the Move
August 2008 - Life in a Faster Lane (Trident Concepts Carbine Operators Course)
September 2008 - Jammin’ Mags
October 2008 - Lamb Universal Sling Attachment
November 2008 - Aimpoint M4S
December 2008 - Malfunction Reduction

February 2009 - Size Matters!
March 2009 - Ultimate Endurance Test (LWRC M6A1)
April 2009 - Proper Stock Placement
May 2009 - Locked and Checked
June 2009 - Cliffhanger! (Colt LE6940)
July 2009 - Magazine Madness
August 2009 - White Light Placement
October 2009 - Bulletproof Mind
November 2009 - Alternative Prone
December 2009 - Men’s Intuition (Sight Picture Efficiency)

January 2010 - Charged Up (Bravo Company Gunfighter’s Chargind Handle)
April 2010 - Passing the Torch (Laser Devices OV-2 Weapon Light)
May 2010 - Fight the Future (Importance of Follow Through)
June 2010 - Minimal Efficiency
July 2010 - Explosive Conclusion! (Colt LE6940 Saga Ends After 17,600 Rounds)
August 2010 - Surgical Shooting (Measuring Mechanical Offset)
September 2010 - Built to Excel (PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube)
October 2010 - Filthy 14
December 2010 - From Dusk to Dawn (LMS Defense Low Light/ No Light Course)

January 2011 - Sighting Alternatives
March 2011 - The Shoot House
April 2011 - Self-Training
May 2011 - Habitual Association (Get Comfortable with your Guns and Gear)
July 2011 - Counterpoint: The Press Check
September 2011 - Proper Helmet Fit
October 2011 - Personal Kit (Solving Equipment Issues)
November 2011 - Transition Techniques

January 2012 - Carbine Chicas
February 2012 - Scan and Assess
March 2012 - The Mechanical Safety
April 2012 - Defaulting to Zero
May 2012 - Indispensable Utility Kit (BFG Boo Boo Pouch)
June 2012 - Hit Me With Your Best Shot (Proper Bullet Placement)
July 2012 - Putting Down the Man Gun (Why I Switched to 9mm)
August 2012 - Dont Be a Zero When You Zero
September 2012 - Get A Handle on Things (BCM Gunfighter Grip)
October 2012 - Levels of Achievement (Journey to Shooting Proficiency)
November 2012 - Let There Be Lights (Really Bright Lights)

January 2013 - Overdue Optic Protection
February 2013 - Class-Ready Kit (Part 1: The War Belt)
March 2013 - Class-Ready Kit (Part 2: The Chest Rig)
April 2013 - Problem Solving for Gunfighters
May 2013 - Train Like It’s 2013
July 2013 - The Patrol Rifle
August 2013 - Why A Weapon-Mounted Light?
September 2013 - Two Steps Beyond (Force-on-Force Training with LMS Defense)
October 2013 - Open for Learning
December 2013 - Distance Shooting

Drummer:

You rock. I shall add this to the list. Many thanks!

Bruce

[Ed L]

I have some of the SWAT magazine articles in PDF form. I also have an article that he wrote that appeared in the April 2001 issue of the Marine Corps Gazette titled SAWs, MOUT, & CQB Size Does Count.

Some other articles that are online with SWAT. I would recommend copying them, because the SWAT website has been disappearing since the magazine is out of business and I would expect the website to disappear by the end of the year.

http://www.swatvault.com/author/patrick-rogers/

[Gater]

Thanks to all for your efforts on this project.

Adding a link to product site with .pdfs of a couple of Pat's articles (approved by him, I believe) as well as a couple of shorter related posts by him:

https://www.slip2000.com/blog/tag/patrick-a-rogers/

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/keepitrunning1.pdf

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Filthy-14.pdf

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/AA-Pat-Rogers-EWL-CLP-Story.pdf

[Sig_Fiend]

Here's a few search engine tips for those that are researching. These are usually what are known as "search operators" with most of the major search engines, like Google or Bing. They're just special syntax you can use in your search that will manipulate, or rather specify that you're looking for a certain type of result.

Site Search
On both Google and Bing, you can search for results only from specific websites (specifically domains or subdomains) if you want. Just enter the word site followed by a colon:

site:swatvault.com

File Search
You can usually search for specific file types on most of the major search engines. On Google, for example, you can type filetype followed by a colon to find only PDF files:

filetype:pdf

Exact Match
When you wrap a word or multiple words in double quotes, that is called an "exact match" search. It means you're searching for that exact phrase. By default, most search engines are using "broad match", which may catch synonyms or other semantically-related topics. Exact match is useful for things like:

Searching specific names
Searching for the presence of specific text written in a certain way, such as a byline or author profile
Searching for a known phrase like "filthy 14" that's associated with the subject you want to find



You can combine many of these search operators to make a very targeted search. For example, knowing that S.W.A.T. Magazine's acronym stands for something a bit different than usual, here's one search that pulls up some interesting results...

"survival weapons and tactics" filetype:pdf

Any of these operators can also be negated by preceding them with a dash. Examples below.

Other examples of these operators combined (each line is a separate search):



site:swatvault.com "patrick a. rogers"

"by patrick a. rogers" -"city of the shrieking tomb"

site:thefiringline.com pat rogers


That second one uses an exact match negation due to a different author of the same name that frequently shows up. So, in that case, I'm attempting to filter that author's results out of search. Anyways, hope some of this helps.

[rob_s]

As someone who also wrote for SWAT I’m not surprised that there isn’t a structured database of articles. When I was writing for them I had to mail in a CD of my article and photos. This when other publishers were using FTP sites to transfer files.

[Sig_Fiend]

As someone who also wrote for SWAT I’m not surprised that there isn’t a structured database of articles. When I was writing for them I had to mail in a CD of my article and photos. This when other publishers were using FTP sites to transfer files.

Knowing this industry, I'm surprised you didn't have to FAX them in. ;)

[Ed L]

As someone who also wrote for SWAT I’m not surprised that there isn’t a structured database of articles. When I was writing for them I had to mail in a CD of my article and photos. This when other publishers were using FTP sites to transfer files.

That's odd. I don't remember what years you wrote for SWAT, but I had been sending them emails with my articles and photos attached for years. In looking at my sent folder I can find copies of articles and photos that I emailed to them back to about 2009. I remember that I submitted the photos from my first few articles starting in 2006 on CD, but I don't remember if it was because of limitations on their end or mine. I remember at one point my home computer & internet setup had issues with sending larger files as attachments.

As far as them not having a structured database of articles, they did have a lot more content online at one time, but they seem to have discontinued much of it since the magazine closed its doors several years ago.

[Bruce in WV]

Its been a while (since Nov 2020) that there were any posts in this thread. I'd be interested in buying a copy of this book if one was published and I missed the announcement.

Can anybody directly involved provide an update, please?

[Bruce Cartwright]

Bruce in WV:

I had started developing a list of Pat's articles, then life, Covid etc. got in the way. I am moving forward with that project as we speak with another Pistol Forum member. We'll keep everybody updated as we make progress. I hope that helps.

Bruce

[Risto]

Bruce in WV:

I had started developing a list of Pat's articles, then life, Covid etc. got in the way. I am moving forward with that project as we speak with another Pistol Forum member. We'll keep everybody updated as we make progress. I hope that helps.

Bruce

Bruce,
Pat had some great posts over at lightfighter.net forum; lots of good one liners, pictures, and stories.

I will never forget when he called me after I reached out to anyone and everyone for prayers after my buddy got shot in the head on the job.

Pat was a gem!

[Bruce Cartwright]

Bruce,
Pat had some great posts over at lightfighter.net forum; lots of good one liners, pictures, and stories.

I will never forget when he called me after I reached out to anyone and everyone for prayers after my buddy got shot in the head on the job.

Pat was a gem!

Risto:

Thanks for the information about Lightfighter. I have thought about the content that Pat generated there, and I would love to find a way to capture it and catalog it.
As to Pat's calls, I was blessed to receive many of them. One in particular stands out and I will be forever grateful for Pat's wise counsel that day.

Bruce

[UNM1136]

The first time I bailed out of the Bataan Death March I was putting together a team. It must have been "03 or '04.

I called him to ask to use his sig line "Remember those that died. Remember those that killed them." On t-shirts. Of course the answer was "YES!"

pat

[Bruce in WV]

Bruce,
Pat had some great posts over at lightfighter.net forum; lots of good one liners, pictures, and stories.

I will never forget when he called me after I reached out to anyone and everyone for prayers after my buddy got shot in the head on the job.

Pat was a gem!

Please share his user name there. My searches haven’t been very successful so far (cue the Boomer Luddite quips)…

[Risto]

Please share his user name there. My searches haven’t been very successful so far (cue the Boomer Luddite quips)…

I haven’t been on over there since he passed basically but i think he just went by Pat_Rogers.
https://www.lightfighter.net/member/pat.rogers/posts

[Bruce in WV]

Got it. Thank you.

[rob_s]

Pat used to say something regarding training like you needed three things for learning to occur. They were something like "a perceived need" and "a belief you can do it"... anyone remember or search up the exact quote?

[Sig_Fiend]

In the interest of transparency, I'm working with Bruce Cartwright on this. We're building a website for it. I'm paranoid about site integrity, especially for anything related to this industry, so it's being built to stand the test of time. ;)

To be clear, this will be a not for profit site with a sole focus on aggregating everything we can about Pat. No shenanigans. The domain name has been purchased and some initial infrastructure work done: PatRogers.org (https://www.patrogers.org/) (nothing live yet)

We'd much appreciate any and all info, stories, pictures, video links, etc. be shared on this thread for now, or directly with us if you prefer.

[vcdgrips]

IIRC he posted for a time at the Tactical Forums under the name of :"Pat _Rogers"

[WobblyPossum]

In the interest of transparency, I'm working with Bruce Cartwright on this. We're building a website for it. I'm paranoid about site integrity, especially for anything related to this industry, so it's being built to stand the test of time. ;)

To be clear, this will be a not for profit site with a sole focus on aggregating everything we can about Pat. No shenanigans. The domain name has been purchased and some initial infrastructure work done: PatRogers.org (https://www.patrogers.org/) (nothing live yet)

We'd much appreciate any and all info, stories, pictures, video links, etc. be shared on this thread for now, or directly with us if you prefer.

Thank you guys for doing this. I can’t wait until it’s live.

[Bruce Cartwright]

In the interest of transparency, I'm working with Bruce Cartwright on this. We're building a website for it. I'm paranoid about site integrity, especially for anything related to this industry, so it's being built to stand the test of time. ;)

To be clear, this will be a not for profit site with a sole focus on aggregating everything we can about Pat. No shenanigans. The domain name has been purchased and some initial infrastructure work done: PatRogers.org (https://www.patrogers.org/) (nothing live yet)

We'd much appreciate any and all info, stories, pictures, video links, etc. be shared on this thread for now, or directly with us if you prefer.

Sig Fiend:
I truly appreciate your efforts and wise counsel. I am really looking forward to the end product.


IIRC he posted for a time at the Tactical Forums under the name of :"Pat _Rogers"

VCDGrips:
Thanks for the information. I am not familiar with Tactical Forums. If they are still up and running and someone has a link and would provide it to us, that would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you guys for doing this. I can’t wait until it’s live.

WobblyPossum:

Glad to. Our idea was to memorialize Pat's works for those not fortunate enough to have trained with him.

Bruce

[Tensaw]

Bruce Cartwright Sig_Fiend

Tactical Forums has been defunct for more than a few years. It was run by Kevin McClung, owner of Mad Dog Knives. I had some dealings with him many, many moons ago, but I doubt he would remember me at this point.

ETA: I believe Pat posted some there in the very early days, but that goes waaay back. He was far more active on LF when TF was in its heyday. It is very possible that his screen name on TF was Pat Rogers.

Seems like there was a running gag there about someone calling him Pat Rodgers.

It is also possible that Kevin McClung may have some Pat writings or some such that were outside of TF.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

Tensaw props on reminding me of the D issue people had/kept using in his name. Besides LF which was his last home base he was also active on 10-8 Forum as 2008 was when I first trained w/ him & Mike Heuser down in Brady, good times for sure & later w/ John Spears, maybe both of them could contribute some memories.
102208102209
One of my Pat faves w/ his reaction from AF1 playing cards & Heuser, some old cat & Pat in Brady.

[vcdgrips]

http://tacticalforums.com/

[Bruce Cartwright]

Bruce Cartwright Sig_Fiend

Tactical Forums has been defunct for more than a few years. It was run by Kevin McClung, owner of Mad Dog Knives. I had some dealings with him many, many moons ago, but I doubt he would remember me at this point.

ETA: I believe Pat posted some there in the very early days, but that goes waaay back. He was far more active on LF when TF was in its heyday. It is very possible that his screen name on TF was Pat Rogers.

Seems like there was a running gag there about someone calling him Pat Rodgers.

It is also possible that Kevin McClung may have some Pat writings or some such that were outside of TF.

Tensaw:

Many thanks for that information. I will check on the 10-8 Forums in addition to the Tactical Forums.


http://tacticalforums.com/

VCDGrips:

You rock! Many thanks.

Bruce

[Sig_Fiend]

This is an open request for anyone. If you happen to have pictures of Pat, his classes, etc. that you wouldn't mind us using on the website we're building, please post links to any public albums (e.g. Google Photos, Flickr, etc.) here and let us know you're okay with us using them. We'd be more than happy to credit you however you prefer (by name, screen name, link to your website or portfolio, etc). If necessary, feel free to PM either myself or Bruce if you prefer to discuss in private first.

Also, same goes for video. If you have video of Pat or his classes, talks, etc. posted anywhere online already, please feel free to link them here and we'll include everything we can on the site. I'll be searching and finding as many as I can myself, however I'm sure plenty will fall through the cracks that maybe have non-descriptive video titles and such.

We have ~10 initial pages outlined. Barring anything unforeseen, I'm expecting we should be able to begin launching web pages within the next 1-2 weeks. It will only grow from there and be refined continuously.

[Ed L]

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor, I think I was in the same class in Brady, TX that you were. I believe you were running a Colt 6940 and I was running either an AUG or an HK416 1.3" upper on a Colt--depending what year it was. If you are who I think you are, we might have been in a Larry Vickers class together.

[Ed L]

Bruce Cartwright Sig_Fiend

Tactical Forums has been defunct for more than a few years. It was run by Kevin McClung, owner of Mad Dog Knives. I had some dealings with him many, many moons ago, but I doubt he would remember me at this point.

ETA: I believe Pat posted some there in the very early days, but that goes waaay back. He was far more active on LF when TF was in its heyday. It is very possible that his screen name on TF was Pat Rogers.

Seems like there was a running gag there about someone calling him Pat Rodgers.

It is also possible that Kevin McClung may have some Pat writings or some such that were outside of TF.

How do I put this delicately, Kevin McClung of Tactical Forums had a falling out with Pat (and many other people). So I would not expect any cooperation from him.

[theJanitor]

Pat used to say something regarding training like you needed three things for learning to occur. They were something like "a perceived need" and "a belief you can do it"... anyone remember or search up the exact quote?

The third thing was probably something like "humiliating failure"

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor, I think I was in the same class in Brady, TX that you were. I believe you were running a Colt 6940 and I was running either an AUG or an HK416 1.3" upper on a Colt--depending what year it was. If you are who I think you are, we might have been in a Larry Vickers class together.

Ed that '08 class was my 1st of 4 w/ Pat, Lloyd G was our host then + my shooting partner in it & yes Pat asked me to run a Colt 6940? for him during the class. It was NIB, bolted my optic on it from my carb as that was the start of data Pat was collecting on it but not the infamous Filthy 14 that ran 35k+? before a failure & w/ lube only? Seems we were in the same LAV class when our friend Wayne hosted him in Greenville then he brought in Hack which was my 1st of 4 w/ him. Good times for sure, learning occurred in all & I last saw ya in 2016-18 when you dropped in for a short visit @ a DB/Wayne class or a Gabe White @ the Carrolton PD's facility next to DPC.

[Ed L]

Ed that '08 class was my 1st of 4 w/ Pat, Lloyd G was our host then + my shooting partner in it & yes Pat asked me to run a Colt 6940? for him during the class. It was NIB, bolted my optic on it from my carb as that was the start of data Pat was collecting on it but not the infamous Filthy 14 that ran 35k+? before a failure & w/ lube only? Seems we were in the same LAV class when our friend Wayne hosted him in Greenville then he brought in Hack which was my 1st of 4 w/ him. Good times for sure, learning occurred in all & I last saw ya in 2016-18 when you dropped in for a short visit @ a DB/Wayne class or a Gabe White @ the Carrolton PD's facility next to DPC.

I was in 2 Vickers classes and one Hack class in Greenville, TX. I think I dropped by to one or two DB/Wayne classes in Carrolton, as well as attending a bunch of them. Good times.

[Robinson]

How do I put this delicately, Kevin McClung of Tactical Forums had a falling out with Pat (and many other people). So I would not expect any cooperation from him.

If I remember right, there was an accusation that Pat Rogers had embellished his military record for the sake of selling classes. The whole thing was surreal, and I stopped visiting that forum about that time. I didn't belong there anyway.

[UNM1136]

If I remember right, there was an accusation that Pat Rogers had embellished his military record for the sake of selling classes. The whole thing was surreal, and I stopped visiting that forum about that time. I didn't belong there anyway.

There was a fraud alert page on the POW Network website that IIRC he was the "master of innuendo" and spun tales to make people think he was something he wasn't, without ever outright claiming anything. I was part of Tactical Forums at the time, and Lightfighter, and 10-8 Forums along with several here. Two of those are no longer a thing...and since Lightfighter underwent that wierd transformation a bunch of years ago, I haven't been there much either.

Strangely, existing links to POW Network's fraud report on Pat are dead links. The site is archaic, with no search function. I suspect there may have been legal action for libel.

Based on doing my homework on trainers, I never for a minute found Pat to be embellishing.

But then, reading is fundamental...

Tempest in a teapot...

pat

[Ed L]

I think it was simpler than that. I believe someone erroneously commented in a thread, or in advertising that Pat was a Recon Marine. Pat never saw the claim made about him, so he did not refute it.

[Rex G]

One burden of having developed a following, is that one’s followers will start embellishing. Next thing ya know, one is being credited with winning gunfights that did not happen, plus, perhaps, walking on water, defeating mythical beasts, healing the sick, and slaying dragons. After a several hundred years, or, couple of thousand years, one’s very existence will be questioned, as one’s life story will be deemed too similar to that of Hercules, Osiris, or Marduk, etc.

Edited to add: I am saying this conceptually, neither for nor against any actual person.

[HCM]

One burden of having developed a following, is that one’s followers will start embellishing. Next thing ya know, one is being credited with winning gunfights that did not happen, plus, perhaps, walking on water, defeating mythical beasts, healing the sick, and slaying dragons. After a several hundred years, or, couple of thousand years, one’s very existence will be questioned, as one’s life story will be deemed too similar to that of Hercules, Osiris, or Marduk, etc.

Edited to add: I am saying this conceptually, neither for nor against any actual person.

This is a great observation.

I recently had a conversation with an industry person re: Ken Hackathorn’s red dot pistol video kerfuffle and they declared that Hackathorn was “SOG in Vietnam.”

Now to be perfectly clear, AFAIK Hackathorn has never made any such claim but via the “telephone game” others have twisted being a Vietnam era veteran who provided firearms training to green berets / SF into being a green beret, being a Vietnam combat vet, SOG member etc

[Sig_Fiend]

Guys, let's not rehash old internet drama. It distracts from the purpose of this thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z97sgItvU4

Pay particular attention to the last half.

[UNM1136]

Guys, let's not rehash old internet drama. It distracts from the purpose of this thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z97sgItvU4

Pay particular attention to the last half.

A-fuckin'-men.

It is his words,

But...

We are diminished.

pat

[UNM1136]

And every one of us carries a piece of his legacy...

pat

[Whiskey]

I remember as a baby Army medic reading Pat’s posts on LFer. I wish I could have trained with him. Seems like a lot of good folks are carrying on his mission though. Looking forward to see where this goes.

[eric0311]

My introduction to Pat was in the spring of 2004, where he taught my Marine Corps Battalion (3rd Battalion 5th Marines) some pretty awesome gunfighting skills with our newly acquired M16A4's (we had a few per rifle platoon during the invasion during 2003, but they were of limited issue). Pat ran us through some great drills...usually on a 50 meter range (which would dovetail into our big push in Fallujah/Phantom Fury). The training was phenomenal, to us, because at the rifle platoon level, we really hadn't experienced this type of professional instruction. Unless your platoon was designated as the "Trailer Platoon" (back in the day, the Battalion's amphibious qualified boat company would attach a rifle platoon to the Marine Expeditionary Unit's Direct Action team, usually a Force Reconnaissance platoon, to serve as cordon/perimeter containment and EPW guards), who trained and received some awesome instruction from the Direct Action element, the standard rifle platoons didn't receive that type of instruction in CQB etc.

Pat was a funny guy, but deadly serious and extremely proficient. We learned a lot from his training...which the Darkhorse Battalion utilized with great success during the second Battle of Fallujah.

[LittleLebowski]

My introduction to Pat was in the spring of 2004, where he taught my Marine Corps Battalion (3rd Battalion 5th Marines) some pretty awesome gunfighting skills with our newly acquired M16A4's (we had a few per rifle platoon during the invasion during 2003, but they were of limited issue). Pat ran us through some great drills...usually on a 50 meter range (which would dovetail into our big push in Fallujah/Phantom Fury). The training was phenomenal, to us, because at the rifle platoon level, we really hadn't experienced this type of professional instruction. Unless your platoon was designated as the "Trailer Platoon" (back in the day, the Battalion's amphibious qualified boat company would attach a rifle platoon to the Marine Expeditionary Unit's Direct Action team, usually a Force Reconnaissance platoon, to serve as cordon/perimeter containment and EPW guards), who trained and received some awesome instruction from the Direct Action element, the standard rifle platoons didn't receive that type of instruction in CQB etc.

Pat was a funny guy, but deadly serious and extremely proficient. We learned a lot from his training...which the Darkhorse Battalion utilized with great success during the second Battle of Fallujah.

You were there with my little brother, he was a sniper team leader with 3/1 STA.

[eric0311]

You were there with my little brother, he was a sniper team leader with 3/1 STA.

That’s good stuff! 3/1 put in some work!

[Bruce Cartwright]

Folks:

Here is a quick update on our efforts at creating a website about Pat Rogers:

1. The domain name has been purchased.

2. Sig Fiend has done yeoman work creating a variety of pages for the website.

3. We are assembling Pat's bibliography. We anticipate that this will be an ongoing effort.

4. We hope to have the website up sooner rather than later, but there is no definitive date set for the launch. Preliminary views of the website are pretty cool.

What we need going forward:

1. We are looking for photographs and content that we can post on the website. If you have photos of Pat that you are willing to share, we would greatly appreciate it if you would reach out to either me or Sig Fiend via private message ("PM") via this website. There have been some folks who stepped forward already and we are deeply appreciative of their assistance.

Have a great weekend. Hopefully, all of you reading this will get an opportunity to do some training this weekend.

Thanks for your attention to this.

Bruce

[Sig_Fiend]

Quick update so no one thinks this has fallen by the wayside. We're on the home stretch and maybe ~2-3 weeks out from initial launch of the website.
We've had great responses from a lot of people and approvals for using images, republishing certain writings from Pat, etc.

Once the site launches, it will continue being improved on and added to on a regular basis. In the meantime, I'd love it if any of you who have stories of Pat might consider sharing them with us for publication on the site.
They can even become complete blog posts. Things like experiences you had in some of Pat's classes, stories about how his teachings helped in your career or life experiences, etc. No story is too small, and every bit counts!

If you have anything to share, best to PM myself or Bruce with it so things don't get lost in this thread.

[BobM]

I now have a laptop I can start typing on. I pulled the first box of Tactical Shooter from the closet also

[Bruce Cartwright]

I now have a laptop I can start typing on. I pulled the first box of Tactical Shooter from the closet also

BobM:

Thank you. I am looking forward to what you can provide. Let me know what we can do to help.

Bruce

[Sig_Fiend]

This is long overdue and I apologize about the wait. I'm excited to announce that PatRogers.org (https://www.patrogers.org/) is now live! The site is fairly minimal at the moment but, don't think that it ends here. This is just the beginning!

Huge thanks to Bruce Cartwright for all of his heavy-lifting on "wrangling the cats" and connecting with people behind the scenes.
Also a big thanks to everyone in this thread that contributed as well as DB, Wayne Dobbs, Ken Campbell, and many others that contributed to much of the content on the site.
We have a Contributors page (https://www.patrogers.org/contributors/) acknowledging anyone that's comfortable with it. If you have anything at all to contribute, we'd certainly appreciate it. You can get in touch with us at the email on the Contact page (https://www.patrogers.org/contact/).

There is a LOT more in the works. We're planning on adding a number of new features and sections of the site to keep spreading Pat's story.
As people start to contribute their stories of Pat, stories of their experiences in his classes, and other stories, we'll open up a blog section.
I'm sure everyone had their own unique, memorable, experiences with him. Every one of those stories is priceless, and I strongly encourage anyone to consider telling theirs.

Also in the works:


Gallery: Pictures from classes, events, friends, and family.
Changelog: This is a typical thing in the software world for providing public visibility into site updates and changes. We might end up launching something similar, in the interest of transparency.
Articles: Where possible, and when we have permission from copyright holders, we may republish some of Pat's articles so they're easy to find.
Forum Posts: We've received some initial support from at least one forum owner where Pat participated. We'll be compiling his old posts and republishing them here in some form, or at least linking to the originals.


Also, we purchased a Supporting Business membership on PF, specifically for this website. Our goal is to have a sub-forum here on PF, where we can aggregate all of the discussion about Pat. That will also give us a place to discuss site updates, brainstorm new ideas, and GROW this thing!

This has been a labor of love for me. That might sound strange, as I never had the pleasure of training with or meeting Pat. That said, thanks to Bruce and many others here, something kind of hit me hard with the beginning of this thread.
Through the pandemic, I've been reflecting a lot on what matters in my own life, and life in general. Listening to others talk about Pat, I could feel the sense of loss in their voices. Something told me this website NEEDED to happen.
Through building it, talking with some of you, reflecting on some of the resources some of you have provided, browsing back through Pat's old articles... hard to explain the feeling of missing someone you've never met but, I feel it.

Anyways, this is not about me. If this site can help create that feeling in others while also preserving Pat's knowledge and wisdom for future generations, we'll consider that a win!

[revchuck38]

I'm going to go through a lot of coffee reading those articles. :)

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

MEGA props to you Sig & Bruce for doing this, looking forward to grinding it this wknd. & also need to get a comm. out to Bruce to see if he reached out to the fellas we discussed, BZ w/ y'all's time & effort w/ this.

[Bruce Cartwright]

This is long overdue and I apologize about the wait. I'm excited to announce that PatRogers.org (https://www.patrogers.org/) is now live! The site is fairly minimal at the moment but, don't think that it ends here. This is just the beginning!

Huge thanks to Bruce Cartwright for all of his heavy-lifting on "wrangling the cats" and connecting with people behind the scenes.
Also a big thanks to everyone in this thread that contributed as well as DB, Wayne Dobbs, Ken Campbell, and many others that contributed to much of the content on the site.
We have a Contributors page (https://www.patrogers.org/contributors/) acknowledging anyone that's comfortable with it. If you have anything at all to contribute, we'd certainly appreciate it. You can get in touch with us at the email on the Contact page (https://www.patrogers.org/contact/).

There is a LOT more in the works. We're planning on adding a number of new features and sections of the site to keep spreading Pat's story.
As people start to contribute their stories of Pat, stories of their experiences in his classes, and other stories, we'll open up a blog section.
I'm sure everyone had their own unique, memorable, experiences with him. Every one of those stories is priceless, and I strongly encourage anyone to consider telling theirs.

Also in the works:


Gallery: Pictures from classes, events, friends, and family.
Changelog: This is a typical thing in the software world for providing public visibility into site updates and changes. We might end up launching something similar, in the interest of transparency.
Articles: Where possible, and when we have permission from copyright holders, we may republish some of Pat's articles so they're easy to find.
Forum Posts: We've received some initial support from at least one forum owner where Pat participated. We'll be compiling his old posts and republishing them here in some form, or at least linking to the originals.


Also, we purchased a Supporting Business membership on PF, specifically for this website. Our goal is to have a sub-forum here on PF, where we can aggregate all of the discussion about Pat. That will also give us a place to discuss site updates, brainstorm new ideas, and GROW this thing!

This has been a labor of love for me. That might sound strange, as I never had the pleasure of training with or meeting Pat. That said, thanks to Bruce and many others here, something kind of hit me hard with the beginning of this thread.
Through the pandemic, I've been reflecting a lot on what matters in my own life, and life in general. Listening to others talk about Pat, I could feel the sense of loss in their voices. Something told me this website NEEDED to happen.
Through building it, talking with some of you, reflecting on some of the resources some of you have provided, browsing back through Pat's old articles... hard to explain the feeling of missing someone you've never met but, I feel it.

Anyways, this is not about me. If this site can help create that feeling in others while also preserving Pat's knowledge and wisdom for future generations, we'll consider that a win!

Folks:

When I started this quest several years ago, my initial goal was to collect a list of all of Pat's writings. If I could accomplish that, I figured I would be successful. Never in my wildest dreams did I envision getting all of this information and getting it published on the web both as a research tool for Pat's students (and future warriors) and as a memorial to him. The project got delayed because of the Wu flu and life in general. Sig Fiend reached out to me to ask about the progress of the project which gave me a polite kick in the a** to get this done. What turned out was a great collaboration. What you see online is due in large part to Sig Fiend's inventive genius and computer skill. I am deeply indebted to Sig Fiend for his efforts, wise counsel, and friendship. Likewise, I cannot thank our many contributors, some recognized by name and some anonymously, enough. One of the great legacies of Pat was his ability to bring people together. Via Pat I made the acquaintance of Daryll Bolke, Wayne Dobbs, Sig Fiend, and Joe & Deborah Curnarski among others. Pat passed seven (7) years ago and he is still helping connect. That is a hell of a legacy.

I hope you enjoy the website and if so moved, contribute your photos and stories of Pat with us via the website. Our goal is for the website to grow over the years. Sig Fiend has done an outstanding job communicating our concept via his post.

As you get ready to remember all the fallen warriors this weekend, please join me in raising a tumbler of fine whiskey in Pat's honor. I had planned to close this post by quoting Pat and his too often repeated phrase by saying "We are diminished." Rather, I think it's is better to smile, chuckle about the screwups I made under Pat's watchful eye and say: "Yes Pat"....

Bruce

[Colt191145lover]

Mad respect , thank you for for making it all come together !

[WobblyPossum]

Thank you both and everyone else who contributed to this project. I was never fortunate enough to train with Pat but always enjoyed his writing. To have so many articles of his posted in one place is amazing. I’m having a great time binging them.

[UNM1136]

Thank you both and everyone else who contributed to this project. I was never fortunate enough to train with Pat but always enjoyed his writing. To have so many articles of his posted in one place is amazing. I’m having a great time binging them.

When I started carrying a 1911 Uncle Pat hooked me up with the Kimber rep so I got one of the first 500 Warriors produced with actual Novak sights. That gun in 8k rounds has had two malfunctions, one of which used TLG's Clinch Pik to clear...

I also told you the story of how Uncle Pat let me use his sig file when I was getting team t-shirts in 04-05 ...

"Remember those that died...and remember those that killed them..."

God, I miss him....

pat

[Sig_Fiend]

The sub-forum (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?112-PatRogers-org) is live. Thanks to LittleLebowski for his help getting that set up! The purpose of the sub-forum is to start moving conversations and details about Pat over there. Especially any ideas you might have for the website, improvements, typos you found, missing bibliography items, anything at all.

What I would like to encourage the most is for everyone to consider sharing their own stories, pics, video, etc. of Pat. Every bit of it is priceless.

[wrmettler]

105529

Excellent hat. Wear it all the time.