End of the USMC AMTRACs

[TGS]

The venerable AAV-7 is finally getting replaced, being in service since 1972. The first 18 vehicles were delivered last month, just in time for the USMC birthday.

The replacement is a wheeled vehicle named the Amphibious Combat Vehicle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_Combat_Vehicle), which from what I can tell is a rip-off of the Patria AMV. You can read about it at that link, and the failure of the EFV program which necessitated a COTS solution. Anyone who has been in the Marines since 9/11 can vouch that the AAV badly needed replacing...it was old and past due 20 years ago. It's so old that the junior enlisted Marines of today are riding around in the same AMTRACs that their grandfathers did. (so I guess that means they're Eskimo brothers?)

I don't know if we have any "trackers" on the forum, but wanted to mention it anyway.

LittleLebowski rcbusmc24 breakingtime91 TOTS Dan Lehr 03RN

[TOTS]

rcbusmc24 would be hipper to this than I but it sounds like a win to me. I never liked any of the time I spent in the back of “coffins” as we called the tracks. As far as I’m concerned, helos are the only way to ship-to-shore Marines! I guess LCACs too, but they are Navy, so....

[03RN]

I was in the helo company in the MEU and glad of it.

I never liked sitting in tracks. Id rather walk. Everytime I was in one in iraq i thought about the scene in blackhawk down at the end. Fucking bullet magnets

[Hambo]

No personal experience with them, but I want to buy one surplus for a riot/hurricane vehicle. Bring on your frozen water bottles, bitches.

[Mark D]

I hated amtracks. It was like riding in a smallish steel box with uncomfortable benches, in the dark, with a pervading stink of diesel Worst of all was getting shaken and bounced around like ice-cubes in a martini mixer as the damn things traversed the hills and training areas of Camp Pendleton. I was always on the verge of throwing up.

Fortunately we did a lot more work in helos than tracks. I hated helos too, after a few close calls, but at least they weren't amtracks.

[LittleLebowski]

I hated amtracks. It was like riding in a smallish steel box with uncomfortable benches, in the dark, with a pervading stink of diesel Worst of all was getting shaken and bounced around like ice-cubes in a martini mixer as the damn things traversed the hills and training areas of Camp Pendleton. I was always on the verge of throwing up.

Fortunately we did a lot more work in helos than tracks. I hated helos too, after a few close calls, but at least they weren't amtracks.

Yeah, I’ve had more close calls in helos than tracks, but that moment when the track goes under for a few seconds and water’s coming in...nope.

[majbgd]

Having spent many hours in amtracs, my two favorite quotes about them are : "Dogs have fleas and amtracs have grunts." And "Well they catch fire more than they sink."

[Hambo]

Yeah, I’ve had more close calls in helos than tracks, but that moment when the track goes under for a few seconds and water’s coming in...nope.

And that is when I would freak the fuck out. I think I saw too many sinking sub or ship movies.

[TGS]

Yeah, I’ve had more close calls in helos than tracks, but that moment when the track goes under for a few seconds and water’s coming in...nope.

How wet on the inside did your LAV-25 get compared to the tracks?

[LittleLebowski]

How wet on the inside did your LAV-25 get compared to the tracks?

Well, LAVs don’t “splash” off the well deck of a ship, they’re not designed for that. They’re more of a “gentle insertion”, so two different beasts. I wouldn’t splash into surf or deep water that came over the top of an LAV, period. Getting back to your question, in practical experience; I think a prepped LAV (you always prep an LAV for amphibious ops) does indeed leak less than a track from the bottoms and the sides, even the with big rear hatches on the LAV. I’ve done true amphibious ops in an LAV off of Pendleton and in a lake on Hunter Liggett, completely drama free with trim vane, steering, and propellers working as expected.

LAVs can’t handle rough surf like a track and they don’t have the same off road capability (I’ve seen a track yank out a really stuck LAV from the mud like it was nothing), but LAVs have proved their worth as the Army admitted when they bought LAV IIIs and called them Strykers.

[LittleLebowski]

I hated amtracks. It was like riding in a smallish steel box with uncomfortable benches, in the dark, with a pervading stink of diesel Worst of all was getting shaken and bounced around like ice-cubes in a martini mixer as the damn things traversed the hills and training areas of Camp Pendleton. I was always on the verge of throwing up.

Fortunately we did a lot more work in helos than tracks. I hated helos too, after a few close calls, but at least they weren't amtracks.

The only time I ever threw up from this sort of thing was when I was in a broken down LCAC with no fresh air in rough seas.

[rcbusmc24]

Rode a track into Iceland in the north atlantic winter..... 1800 hundred meters turned into 3 miles due to lateral drift and sea state...Luckily I was in the TC hatch (up front looking out the top), all my dudes in the back were awash in a sea of vomit...Hopefully never again.

The new vic is being phased in, there is talk that once it gets its 30 mm cannon that it could replace the LAV's as well, LAR is facing a restructuring, HQMC wants to create a scout MOS that will feed both the Recon community and what is currently LAR along with into the Rifle BN's replacing what the Scout Sniper platoons do now, Think much how the Army has Cav Scouts but..... Marines I guess... Part of the reason has do do with Infantry career progression, Dudes who start out in the above mentioned communities tend to have issues once they catch orders to a regular infantry BN as what they did before is not really the same.... I can do more on this if you all are interested.

New vehicle aside, I still think opposed beach landings are a really hard sell, and probably not a realistic COA anymore, these new vics do go slightly faster, and once ashore move quicker and into more places than a track can, but they eat tires. The last ITX showed a consumption rate in the terrain out there that was unreal. At times it limited maneuverability of the units due to needed repairs. They were ripping tires off of deadlined vics to keep the others moving, so a concern for me if out with a expeditionary unit in austere conditions.

Operating them on ship and out of a green well is only slightly faster due to wheels vice tracks but since the well deck can be basically dry, and that is the same for tracks launch time is similar, Recovery is about the same though, and has to be done with a wet well. Fastest way in will still be moving them via LCAC but that is a time/ space / crew rest (both craft and ship)/ flight deck hour algorithm that has to be worked out and is thus the reason that the USMC still wants vehicles that can take themselves ashore.

[Stephanie B]

It's so old that the junior enlisted Marines of today are riding around in the same AMTRACs that their grandfathers did.

B-52 pilots' response: "Hold my beer."

[DDTSGM]

B-52 pilots' response: "Hold my beer."

As an aside a wiki search revealed this list of currently operated aircraft that probably would have some grandsons flying them:

B-52 = 1955; C-130 = 1956; KC-135 = 1957; U-2 = 1957; UH1 = 1959 (USAF apparently still has some as trainers); T-38 = 1961:CH-47 = 1962; F-5 = 1962; P3 = 1962; TH47(JetRanger) = 1962; C2/E2 = 1964

[LittleLebowski]

And that is when I would freak the fuck out. I think I saw too many sinking sub or ship movies.


https://youtu.be/proG2PfFs8A

[rcbusmc24]

https://youtu.be/proG2PfFs8A

Pretty sure that video is off of Okinawa launching toward Camp Schwab. That water is too clean and calm to be here in Lejeune, plus we don't have a water tower... and you can see some big F'ing mountains ahead of you when you hit Pendleton.

I'm gonna miss doing amphibious stuff once I retire, as sometimes I get the feeling that I'm the only guy in the Marine Corps who actually likes being at sea....

[TOTS]

Pretty sure that video is off of Okinawa launching toward Camp Schwab. That water is too clean and calm to be here in Lejeune, plus we don't have a water tower... and you can see some big F'ing mountains ahead of you when you hit Pendleton.

I'm gonna miss doing amphibious stuff once I retire, as sometimes I get the feeling that I'm the only guy in the Marine Corps who actually likes being at sea....

Nah, there’s a couple of Sgts Maj who are also suffering from Stockholm syndrome and want to get aboard the next LHD going out! Solid info in your above post. Except H-53s are the premier ship to shore movers!! ;)

[Hot Sauce]

The new vic is being phased in, there is talk that once it gets its 30 mm cannon that it could replace the LAV's as well, LAR is facing a restructuring, HQMC wants to create a scout MOS that will feed both the Recon community and what is currently LAR along with into the Rifle BN's replacing what the Scout Sniper platoons do now, Think much how the Army has Cav Scouts but..... Marines I guess... Part of the reason has do do with Infantry career progression, Dudes who start out in the above mentioned communities tend to have issues once they catch orders to a regular infantry BN as what they did before is not really the same.... I can do more on this if you all are interested.
Please do. I have not read about this, and it sounds interesting.

[ranger]

I was very happy when we quit swimming the Bradley IFVs.

[LittleLebowski]

Pretty sure that video is off of Okinawa launching toward Camp Schwab. That water is too clean and calm to be here in Lejeune, plus we don't have a water tower... and you can see some big F'ing mountains ahead of you when you hit Pendleton.

I'm gonna miss doing amphibious stuff once I retire, as sometimes I get the feeling that I'm the only guy in the Marine Corps who actually likes being at sea....

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