Comfortable AIWB

[Devildawg2531]

I have always carried either OWB or IWB between the 3 and 5 position. I am interested in carrying my Glock 26 AIWB but curious what is the most comfortable AIWB holster? I've never carried AIWB so flying blind on this but much appreaciate the advice.

Thanks

[Mitch]

This will probably take some experimentation on your part. I’ve found strong side carry to be pretty forgiving for comfort but more of a pain to actually conceal. With AIWB, though, I’ve had dramatically different results just between two different belts.

What’s your build like and what type of belt are you going to use? People may be able to point you in a certain direction, but you’re probably going to have to try a few things to see what works.

[Devildawg2531]

This will probably take some experimentation on your part. I’ve found strong side carry to be pretty forgiving for comfort but more of a pain to actually conceal. With AIWB, though, I’ve had dramatically different results just between two different belts.

What’s your build like and what type of belt are you going to use? People may be able to point you in a certain direction, but you’re probably going to have to try a few things to see what works.

I'm 6 3 and 225 pounds. Big guy. Is there an advantage to a dedicated AIWB holster or is using a standard IWB holster in the appendix position the same thing? I've got several high end holsters and have used some of them in the appendix position to try them out and they aren't comfortable. Which led me to starting this thread.

[snow white]

You will absolutely want a dedicated AIWB holster.

[dontshakepandas]

There are definite advantages to a dedicated appendix holster. With your height, I would recommend going with a G17 length holster, but wouldn't consider anything shorter than a G19 length.

I'd say check out the offerings from Dark Star Gear, JM Custom Kydex, and Tenicor (in no particular order) and pick one that strikes your fancy. From there you'll probably find some things you like/don't like and can further refine from there.

Unfortunately, there isn't really an easy button. It takes some time to find the "perfect" holster for you, and also takes some time for your body to get used to feeling something in that area.

[Mitch]

I'm 6 3 and 225 pounds. Big guy. Is there an advantage to a dedicated AIWB holster or is using a standard IWB holster in the appendix position the same thing? I've got several high end holsters and have used some of them in the appendix position to try them out and they aren't comfortable. Which led me to starting this thread.

A dedicated AIWB is the way to go. Here are my suggestions in no particular order:

-Darkstar gear holster. I prefer the soft loops but the clip is good too. Order the wing and the pad. Get at least G19 length but G17 is probably a better bet. This is a very adjustable holster, with some trial and error you can find what you like. And if you decide the whole idea sucks it will work IWB too.
-Same idea with the Tenicor Certum3. You’ll have to find a pad somewhere else, though. You can get one separately from Darkstar Gear or Mastermind Tactics. Try it without the pad first if you get the tenicor. I use mine without a pad, but I don’t like pads or wedges.
-Call Tony at JM Custom Kydex and pick his brain on what to get.

I’ve used holsters from all three places and they all make great stuff. Basically I would order something that is as customizable as possible on your end, or go with Tony’s recommendations.

*Edit: this makes it seem like you can’t tweak JM holsters. That’s not really the case. You can adjust a lot on his wing-claw models too. I just prefer the George from JM Custom, and that’s a little less adjustable than some of the other models.

[JRV]

Piling on. A dedicated AIWB holster from one of the go-tos on P-F is absolutely the way to go.

I’ve made do with adapting non-dedicated AIWB holsters with foam wedges, new clip locations, and wings/claws, but they are nowhere near as comfortable as my dedicated JMCK, which doesn’t even require a foam pad to prevent hot spots.

[Flamingo]

I have used Dark Star Gear, Tenicor, V-Development, and a few more that I can't think of right now. All three are nice, but Tenicor will let you buy one and try it out and if you don't like it they will allow you to return it.

[Larry T]

When I started carrying I started like you - usually behind the hip at ~4:30. My first AIWB holster was a Raven Eidolon. I don't recall why I wanted something new but my next holster was a JM Custom Kydex Wing Claw 2.0. Along the way I bought a Tenicor Velo with the "body contour wedge" and un-adjustable camming bar. I went back and forth between the two for a long while. A year or so ago I stopped using the Tenicor Velo because the "body contour wedge" and camming bar just didn't tuck the Glock 17, 19, or 26 as well as the JMCK.

Other reasons I prefer the JMCK 2.0: The full sweat guard completely covers the rear sight so the sight never touches or digs into my skin when I bend over. The sweat guard also allows me to get a firing grip and push down against the guard with my shooting hand thumb, breaking retention for a discreet quiet draw. I also like the open but rounded muzzle end of the holster. It's more comfortable than the straight edge on the bottom of the Velo.

The JMCK uses the "Mod Wing" which has four potential adjustments and works better for me than the one size fits all options like the Velo camming bar or the Dark Star "Dark Wing" which I used for a while. I like the foam wedge that comes with the JMCK and find that they hold up pretty well over time. I also like the Dark Star "Teardrop Muzzle Pad" which you can buy from them separately.

I initially used Pull The Dot loops on everything but once I got the hang of Discreet Carry Concepts clips, they became my favorite attachment.

And then there's the belt. I've used Wilderness Tactical and Mastermind (formerly Graith) nylon velcro belts. I got sick of dealing with velcro so I grudgingly bought a KORE ratcheting leather belt. I felt the leather might not hold up to the rigors of AIWB and DCC clips but I really liked the ratcheting and medium stiffness of the leather belt. I use it for concealed OWB (at 3 o'clock) with a jacket or suit coat for cover. For EDC AIWB, I bought a KORE Nylon Tactical belt with the smaller AIWB buckle. This belt is actually over-built for AIWB but I find I don't have to wear the belt as tight as I had to wear the other velcro belts.

I hope this helps.

[JAD]

The G26 is a good gun but you may quickly find it’s just as easy to conceal a G19 AIWB. Folks are telling you to get a longer holster because a really short holster will roll over your belt line, especially if you have some padding. I don’t have that problem (I routinely aiwb a G43 in a short holster) but the longer holster will allow you to upgrade to a G19 in the future.

I favor the JMCK ‘George’ but I have a good build for aiwb. With a JMCK wing claw I can easily conceal a G17 under a t shirt.

The most comfortable aiwb holsters are the SME by 5 shot leather and the Watson by JRC.

[Duke]

Having a 7” -9” Long, 2-3lb Steel and plastic boomerang wedged into your belt line is likely to fall far outside of the scope of what most people would label “comfort”


But it should not be distractingly painful or restrictive.


I’m in pretty keen physical fitness and carry huge gun/weaponlight/light/spare mag Etc with no issues but it’s an acquired taste. The benefit for me is consistency in draw whether seated or standing and ability to hide the full size gun/comp/dot/x300 that has come to be the norm

[pastaslinger]

My experience has been that the G26 doesn't carry as well as I'd like AIWB because the weight is high on the belt line (cannot drop the holster very low due to the short grip) and it's still somewhat thick, so you may not have a big advantage compared to IWB. I'm not saying it's a bad AIWB gun, I'm merely trying to say that if you are trying to escape IWB for greener pastures it may not be the biggest difference.

I also am not sure I'd say you NEED an AIWB specific holster for such a small gun given that you don't need grip rotation and probably don't need tuck from something like a wedge- the conclusion ends up being you might as well get at least a compact sized gun to actually feel the advantages of AIWB. When given the choice, I typically carry full sized over subcompact for AIWB which sounds backwards but feels more comfortable in certain ways.

[camsdaddy]

My Glock 26 is most often found being carried with a Raven Concealment Vanguard. Its cheap and takes up very little room.

[RJ]

I have a try at AIWB every six months or so. In fact I have an older JM CK G17 length holster w wing for my G19 squirreled away in my box o' holsters that I use for this. Unfortunately, for me at least, I've found that I can either carry AIWB, or I can carry a "spare tire." I can't do both. So since I currently have the spare tire, it doesn't work well for me, and I carry behind the hip in a JM CK IWB3.

I'm focusing on the spare tire, and have finally found a diet and exercise approach that is working for me. Once I get to target weight, I will try AIWB again. At age 61, I will probably not end up looking like Duke, but I may surprise myself.

[Devildawg2531]

My experience has been that the G26 doesn't carry as well as I'd like AIWB because the weight is high on the belt line (cannot drop the holster very low due to the short grip) and it's still somewhat thick, so you may not have a big advantage compared to IWB. I'm not saying it's a bad AIWB gun, I'm merely trying to say that if you are trying to escape IWB for greener pastures it may not be the biggest difference.

I also am not sure I'd say you NEED an AIWB specific holster for such a small gun given that you don't need grip rotation and probably don't need tuck from something like a wedge- the conclusion ends up being you might as well get at least a compact sized gun to actually feel the advantages of AIWB. When given the choice, I typically carry full sized over subcompact for AIWB which sounds backwards but feels more comfortable in certain ways.

I have a G17 and G22 also but the G22 mostly sits in the safe. I do carry the G17 sometimes. Getting the larger AIWB G17 style holster is a great recommendation as I can use it for both the 17 and 26. Do you have the issue on the G26 not being able to drop it low still when using the +2 mag extension?

[pastaslinger]

I have a G17 and G22 also but the G22 mostly sits in the safe. I do carry the G17 sometimes. Getting the larger AIWB G17 style holster is a great recommendation as I can use it for both the 17 and 26. Do you have the issue on the G26 not being able to drop it low still when using the +2 mag extension?

Don't really use the +2's but there would still be the issue of the weight distribution being really high up

[Duke]

I have a G17 and G22 also but the G22 mostly sits in the safe. I do carry the G17 sometimes. Getting the larger AIWB G17 style holster is a great recommendation as I can use it for both the 17 and 26. Do you have the issue on the G26 not being able to drop it low still when using the +2 mag extension?

Forget about dropping it down in your belt line - you may as well pocket carry that point.


Aiwb should provide one with a totally unimpeded firing grip at any speed/standing or sitting using a full size gun

Dropping it super low in your belt line is part of the discomfort factor. This is why guys are saying longer gun and longer kydex



https://youtu.be/ZxuIRWAkiic

[HeavyDuty]

I’m making a dedicated effort to see if AIWB works for me - I have a long JMCK Claw 2.5 for my 43. So far, I’m finding left of centerline works better than right of centerline (I’m a righty) but I need to do a lot more experimentation. The ability to carry without a dedicated cover garment is what is driving this, plus moving to a state that doesn’t have a patchwork of no carry zones requiring frequent disarming.

[Duke]

I’m making a dedicated effort to see if AIWB works for me - I have a long JMCK Claw 2.5 for my 43. So far, I’m finding left of centerline works better than right of centerline (I’m a righty) but I need to do a lot more experimentation. The ability to carry without a dedicated cover garment is what is driving this, plus moving to a state that doesn’t have a patchwork of no carry zones requiring frequent disarming.

Not left of center but closer to 12

63021

[HeavyDuty]

Not left of center but closer to 12

63021

Imagine straddling that first belt loop, that’s what is working at the moment.

Edit - my physique is much fluffier than yours, though.

[GearFondler]

Dropping it super low in your belt line is part of the discomfort factor. This is why guys are saying longer gun and longer kydex


This... You want the grip over your gut, not underneath it, for any semblance of comfort. Under the gut might hide better but it will impede the draw and rub/poke you raw.

I started AIWB carrying a G19 at 5'7", 190lbs and made it work. A proper holster (RCS Eidolon at that time), a rash guard (Under Armour Heat Gear), and sticking with it until my body adjusted to the sensation, was all it required. Plus a lot of tinkering with holster set-up and position and using a proper AIWB belt to maximize concealment and comfort.
I have since dedicated myself to improving my body and am now 163lbs, however I have been less successful with increasing my height. I still have a slight pooch in front but it's a non-issue in regards to comfort or concealment.
After about a year of exploration and experiment I am now carrying a Roland Special in a Henry Holster Spark and find this dummy big combination to be equally as comfortable but more secure and concealed than anything previous.

[RevolverRob]

My thoughts as I continue to dabble with AIWB, but 100% lack Duke's rockin' dad bod that I am in no way jealous of (that is completely untrue); and instead I have a traditional 'dad bod' complete with spare tire that extends out more than I want, but less than it could (getting the picture yet?).

I can AIWB a full size gun (Commander-Sized 2011) with a proper holster. For me that holster is the SME from John Ralston at 5-Shot Leather. The way the holster is cut and formed, fits the curvature of my hips and drops into my inguinal crease perfectly. None-the-less I still find concealment is aided via the addition of a 'junk pad' - in this case a flat teardrop from Dark Star Gear dropped low on the holster, gives that extra length and push I need to tuck the butt in for excellent concealment, while keeping it high for access. The rake is set slightly muzzle forward (butt rear).

Okay that's the full-size gun, what about the compact?

The only way I can AIWB a compact gun is with a Dark Star J-Frame Apollo, this has a flat, square, pad on the end, and the clip is adjusted to give me a slightly more extreme butt rear rake than my SME. The grip tucks just into the edge of my spare tire and is comfortable and quick. But there is no way that I could carry the gun in a pure vertical orientation that low. The rake I have the gun at is almost cross-draw like. It presents very quick, but is noticeably lower than the grip of my STI. If it weren't such a compact and rounded gun, it would be impossible to carry this way.

___

I've tried a lot of different holsters and I have found the dedicated AIWB holsters to be better for AIWB (shock!). But even among those dedicated holsters, there is quite a bit of difference. I've tried kydex for my 2011 and I can't get it comfortable, leather works better. I tried leather for my J-Frame and I couldn't get comfortable, kydex works better. I have no idea why all this minutiae seems to matter, but it does.

By contrast, I can buy a Sparks Summer Special (#1, not the #2) for any gun and strap it on at 4 o'clock and it works great for me. Any gun, all the guns, from a full size 1911 to an LCP. Everything hides and is fairly quick and comfortable from that position. As a result, you'll find that I tend to just use an IWB holster at 4-4:30 pretty much all the time. The downside is concealment isn't as good compared to AIWB. However, comfort is generally improved for me that's frankly the more important aspect for me at this time.

[HCountyGuy]

A dedicated AIWB holster is definitely the way to go. You may have to try a few of the different forum-favored (read well-vetted) makers to find what works best for you. Good news is you’ll likely be able to sell off whatever doesn’t suit you for near what you paid for it around here, and quite quickly too!

Oh, and a good belt helps too! SouthNarc had a video some time ago on how the whole carry system (holster, belt, clothes) need to work together for you. You can find that video and thread here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31228-Video-tutorial-for-forward-carriage-of-primary-equipment).

For me, I’m currently wearing a JMCK Wing Claw 2.0 and it’s comfortable 95% of the time, to the point I don’t notice that I’m wearing it. Sometimes it gets a touch uncomfortable, but it comes and goes.

[Mark D]

Not to be Debbie Downer, but there is a AIWB sticky in this same sub-forum. It currently has over 2000 posts...

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry)

[Duke]

Not to be Debbie Downer, but there is a AIWB sticky in this same sub-forum. It currently has over 2000 posts...

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry)

yea.....

but 201 pages of posts that may not be relevant today.. sort of cant blame a guy for making new thread for cliff notes.


If we're going to be like "we've covered this already" then we just need to lock the whole site and filter all questions through these two worn out replies.:


" it depends" and " you don't know what you don't know"

[Mark D]

yea.....

but 201 pages of posts that may not be relevant today.. sort of cant blame a guy for making new thread for cliff notes.


If we're going to be like "we've covered this already" then we just need to lock the whole site and filter all questions through these two worn out replies.:


" it depends" and " you don't know what you don't know"

Ok, fair enough.

[orionz06]

I have used Dark Star Gear, Tenicor, V-Development, and a few more that I can't think of right now. All three are nice, but Tenicor will let you buy one and try it out and if you don't like it they will allow you to return it.

Dark Star does as well.

[Flamingo]

Dark Star does as well.


That is sweet! I didn't know that.

[orionz06]

AIWB Rules of Thumb from 10+ years in the game:

Minimum holster length is G19 length, even for smaller guns. This prevents the belt from pushing the corner of the muzzle into the soft pelvic tissue by moving the corner away and leaving a flat spot. G17 length is typically better yet, except with women who dress fashionable and cannot have a bulge that prints. Size and shape may change how much this matters. The bonus here is the bottom of the holster now has more leverage to use the pelvic contact to counteract any outward push from the abdomen. This leverage can be increased by a pad. In the instance that a hot spot forms, a layer of velcro, moleskin, or a pad can supplement.

The position will typically start as far away from center as the inner thigh contact allows. Contact is not discomfort. Contact is acceptable and will most likely happen. Small changes one direction or the other will make huge differences. Pant ride height will influence this as well. A small amount of negative cant may work better if there is not enough relief with movement towards the center.

Belt attachments may print, most clips will print less than most loops, but this is a secondary problem to comfort, overall position, and grip concealment.

An AIWB specific holster will use a combo of four AIWB specific features (not my list, but I've used it since I heard it. Credit to Todd):

Muzzle Extension- the most basic. Just use a longer holster. A G19 in a G17 holster, for example.
Muzzle Wedge/Pad- foam or a bulge formed into the holster to rotate the muzzle outward and thus the grip inward.
Belt Wedge- A build up of the holster under the belt and over the gun to rotate the grip inward. Started with the Custom Carry Concepts Looper, evolved into the Shaggy. Effectively a door stop looking portion of the holster directly under the belt.
Trailing Lever/Wing/Claw- A lever that attaches to the holster that also uses the belt to rotate the grip inward. When compared to the belt wedge, these holsters create far less of a bulge at the belt line and are more suitable for more narrow waisted wearers, as well as folks who dress in more form fitting clothing.




Note on the belt wedge vs a wing; there is a thought that the wider winged holster is an issue compared to a belt wedge, but this negates the fact that the wing occupies a space above the thigh and does not intrude on anything else. The holsters are wider, but not in a sense that matters. Typically the people that benefit the most from a winged holster have the least amount of space from hip to hip and wear more form fitting clothing. That's not to say one is superior to the other, just that if one is comparing holsters, they should not rule either style out without trying them.

Wildcard: Small revolvers are different animals. Their shape, width, and overall size prevent the above comments from applying 100%. Most snubbies are just fine in a cheap, straight drop holster. Don't overthink it there. In the case of snubbies, adding a wing adds to an already wide holster and may create issues where there is too much inward force. Try a holster before modifying it to better understand your needs compared to that of other posters you see online.

[Elwin]

AIWB Rules of Thumb from 10+ years in the game:

(SNIP)

Try a holster before modifying it to better understand your needs compared to that of other posters you see online.

Obviously everything in this post is spot on, but this has been huge in my experience. Looking at what others are running and how, knowing full well it clearly works for them, my reaction to many rigs is still “that looks awful and uncomfortable/inaccessible/unconcealable,” because it’s something that I wouldn’t be able to tolerate or make work at all. I’m sure someone else would look at my holster on me and think the same. When it comes to AIWB carry, we’re all special snowflakes. But once you’ve found what works for you all the trial and error is worth it.

[Jared]

Time will help and make a huge difference. First time I tried to AIWB in public was a j-frame in a holster from a very well respected maker. I had to go to the restroom halfway through a meal to move the thing to 3:30. Today that exact same holster is one of my favorite AIWB setups. What changed? I got used to the sensation of having something there. Nothing more, nothing less.

Other things have happened such as me moving away from negative cant to a straight drop, a distinct preference for longer holsters on semi autos. Lately I’ve begun using the foam pad from JM Custom Kydex that’s not angled, just a flat pad. For whatever reason I’m finding it the ultimate in comfort these days.

All this is to say that AIWB is a journey and your tastes will likely change. Another note, the other day I put on an old favorite 3:30-4:30 IWB holster I used to carry with a lot. Turns out now I don’t like the sensation of a gun on my right hip. I didn’t get out of the house before I went back to an appendix rig.

[pangloss]

Forget about dropping it down in your belt line - you may as well pocket carry that point.


Aiwb should provide one with a totally unimpeded firing grip at any speed/standing or sitting using a full size gun

Dropping it super low in your belt line is part of the discomfort factor. This is why guys are saying longer gun and longer kydex



https://youtu.be/ZxuIRWAkiic

I'm not sure I follow here, and I apologize if I'm belaboring the obvious. Was the question about carrying closer to the belt line or actually dropping below the belt line? I have one holster (Silent Thunder from Garrett for Glock 26) that rides close to the belt. The grip of the pistol is completely above the belt, but I don't have as much clearance for my fingers as I do on my DSG or JMCK holsters. Consequently, establishing my grip, and thus my draw, takes longer. Because of the lower ride height, the G26 in this holster conceals a little better for me than a G19 in DSG/JMCK. It's definitely a trade off though, as my draw is slower, capacity is lower, sight radius is shorter that a G19 in a JMCK/DSG, but it's still better for me than a J-frame.

Sinking lower in the belt would be Dale Fricke's Jonathan (LINK (https://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/jonathan-deep-concealment/)). I view that as a niche holster, and it's not something I've ever needed. I have a JMCK Universal for my G43 that works very well for when I'm most concerned about concealment. This holster also rides close to the belt. I'm about 0.5 seconds slower on the draw with my G43 in the Universal than I am with my G19 in a Wing Claw.

[MattyD380]

I'm still trying to perfect my AIWB setup, but I've found that...

-Higher ride means more comfort (especially when sitting) and better draw.

-Lower ride means better concealability.

To date, riding the grip down close to the beltline is the only way I've gotten adequate concealability AIWB. Anything higher, and it's very conspicuous (I've tried two JMs, a JRC and Mastermind Tactics). I've got a wedge and DCC monoblock clips on the way for my JM George and I hope that solves it. I had settled into using generic soft holsters at about 1:00 because they ride lower. When I had sit/drive, I would just hike the gun up an inch or two in the holster to get it front of my belly. I was reasonably content with this approach, but recent events have made me want to get a more stable, secure setup.

[GAP]

I carry a G26 about 90% of the time and prefer a G17 length holster with a high ride height. The length gives me leverage below the belt to prevent roll-out and the high ride height allows me to still draw the short grip quickly.

The j-frame is carried the other 10% in a Dark Star Gear holster that follows the same principle. When I line up the mounting clips, both holsters appear to be about the same length.

Anything wide (wing) or bulky (foam wedge) are really uncomfortable for me, but the length is fine with the holster slightly off center “straddling” the belt loop. The j-frame is typically only carried when not wearing a belt.

Short grips work better for me for concealment and for how active I am with my small children. You should also weigh your lifestyle, work requirements, etc. and don’t get too hung up with carrying what a handful of people online are carrying.

[Duke]

I'm not sure I follow here, and I apologize if I'm belaboring the obvious. Was the question about carrying closer to the belt line or actually dropping below the belt line? I have one holster (Silent Thunder from Garrett for Glock 26) that rides close to the belt. The grip of the pistol is completely above the belt, but I don't have as much clearance for my fingers as I do on my DSG or JMCK holsters. Consequently, establishing my grip, and thus my draw, takes longer. Because of the lower ride height, the G26 in this holster conceals a little better for me than a G19 in DSG/JMCK. It's definitely a trade off though, as my draw is slower, capacity is lower, sight radius is shorter that a G19 in a JMCK/DSG, but it's still better for me than a J-frame.

Sinking lower in the belt would be Dale Fricke's Jonathan (LINK (https://dalefrickeholsters.com/product/jonathan-deep-concealment/)). I view that as a niche holster, and it's not something I've ever needed. I have a JMCK Universal for my G43 that works very well for when I'm most concerned about concealment. This holster also rides close to the belt. I'm about 0.5 seconds slower on the draw with my G43 in the Universal than I am with my G19 in a Wing Claw.

I may have misread it - taking it that the gun was lowered in the belt line - obscuring a repeatable firing grip.

[knownothing]

Only chiming in because I have a similar body size to the OP (hair under 6’ 4” and 225), and want to share my experience carryon AIWB so far. The only holster I’ve found to really work for me is an AIWB specific holster, the JM Custom Wing Claw 2.5 with the dcc clips. I’m carrying a P09 and I have no issue with the grip printing like previous holsters I’ve used, at both AIWB and normal 9-7 positions (left handed). I don’t used a wedge, tried it and didn’t find it necessary with the slide length. I typically carry 11-11:30 position on the belt, and can comfortably drive for 5 hours with no issue. Just my 0.02 cents, YMMV.

[pastaslinger]

Only chiming in because I have a similar body size to the OP (hair under 6’ 4” and 225), and want to share my experience carryon AIWB so far. The only holster I’ve found to really work for me is an AIWB specific holster, the JM Custom Wing Claw 2.5 with the dcc clips. I’m carrying a P09 and I have no issue with the grip printing like previous holsters I’ve used, at both AIWB and normal 9-7 positions (left handed). I don’t used a wedge, tried it and didn’t find it necessary with the slide length. I typically carry 11-11:30 position on the belt, and can comfortably drive for 5 hours with no issue. Just my 0.02 cents, YMMV.

I have fallen in love with DCC clips. It has gotten to the point where I want to buy new DCC clip holsters to replace PTD loop holsters that don't have the ability to be drilled for them.

[DGI]

Long time AIWB user.

Bought a 2008 VW R32 years ago and the seats were too form hugging to carry in the “traditional” 3-4 o’clock position.

Started with a G19 in a SME. Great way to start, hard game to follow up.

At the suggestion of many wise minds on this forum, i decided to try a DA/SA pistol and snapped up a PX4cc when they were first released. Been running that ever since in a JM Claw holster.

You NEED length for the gun to tuck what needs to tuck and not want to “flop out” of the belt line.

The SME and JM “Claw” works for me. Ive got a Garrett Silent Thunder for my SP101 that works but not as well as my semi-auto setups.

Most of the time you will have to trial-and-error it to see what works. I got lucky

[MattyD380]

You NEED length for the gun to tuck what needs to tuck and not want to “flop out” of the belt line.

Can a wedge mitigate the need for length? The JM George I have for my P239s is fairly short.

[Duke]

Can a wedge mitigate the need for length? The JM George I have for my P239s is fairly short.

Not really. Body type dependent

That’s why I never jive with the small guns


I needs such a huge as wedge and long kydex that I may as well be using a huge gun. So I do

[MattyD380]

Hmm. Interesting. Thanks.

I'm gonna mod the George and see how that works. Then... we'll see...

[Winegamd]

I'm 6' 250 and carry a 92x Centurion in a JMCK AIWB at 1230 with a V Dev Mejingford. I have narrower hips and some dad fluff. I think the non claw holsters benefit greatly from a wedge. However, I find for the wedge to work the best, it needs to be asymmetrical. Not only does it need to taper from tip to grip but also from barrel side to trigger side. This helps tuck the grip in at the top and give some extra rotation to tuck the grip end in. Yoga block has also worked better than the neoprene foam because it will hold it's rounded shape under higher pressures with less hot spots.

AIWB fit/comfort is pretty dependent on hip width and torso length. Wider hips are more forgiving on holster design allowing more room for claws and optics. For narrower hips, the Keeper and JMCK AIWB wedge designs may fit better, but the wedge offers less tuck as you get past 1:00 (closer to centerline).

Torso length comes in to play with holster/barrel length and tip out. The shorter the length from belly button to junk the shorter the barrel/holster you can typically get away with. Ride height can come into play here, too, and will allow some adjustment.

I find 12:00-12:30 to be the most comfortable if I can get the ride height high enough and the grip to tuck. My next purchase will be a JMCK 2.0 with DCC clips to accomplish this. For example, even though it's wider with the claw, moving it to 12 will account for the slight increase in width. The extra ride height available with the DCC clips will give enough room to not poke the base of my shaft with the tip of the holster. The Claw will also still rotates the grip in with the extra ride height where the normal AIWB wedge is no longer effective/runs out of ride height.

Hopefully that helps someone.

[GearFondler]

How you wear your pants can also effect things. I'm fairly short at 5'7" and always wore my pants right on my waistline (under my gut) and the most I could manage was a G19... Probably could have worn a G17 but I don't own one.
Anyway, I tried wearing my high-waisted pants up where they belong and now I can carry a G34 or a Roland with reasonable comfort and flexibility. And with a cover garment no one can see I'm wearing my pants grandpa style, lol.

[orionz06]

Can a wedge mitigate the need for length? The JM George I have for my P239s is fairly short.

At some point, but it's a little subjective there.

[Larry T]

Can a wedge mitigate the need for length? The JM George I have for my P239s is fairly short.

My experience says mostly yes, assuming you're starting with a long enough holster to begin with. I carry either a G19 or G17 in a JMCK 2.0 17-length. Not too long ago I got it in my head that a 34-length version of that holster would be even better than the 17-length. I'm tall but I find the extra almost 3/4 inch length of the 34 version to get in the way when sitting yet provides no additional concealment advantage. I've mitigated the unnecessary length of the 34 by using PDT loops on struts which allows a fairly high ride height.

On the other hand, if you carry a G26 in a G26 holster, it'll be pretty top-heavy and I don't think a wedge would be much help. So, longer is better - up to a point.

[orionz06]

On the other hand, if you carry a G26 in a G26 holster, it'll be pretty top-heavy and I don't think a wedge would be much help. So, longer is better - up to a point.

It's not so much the weight, but the lever that's available to work with in the case of the G26, unless your belt is super floppy or you are averse to any belt tension.

[Isaac]

Very happy w my SSII straight drop made for g26. No flop issues. No digging. No wedge needed.

[Winegamd]

If the wedge is the right size, you can add enough counter leverage to where the entire holster is being forced into you by the belt instead of just the end or the grip. This is, of course, dependent on the amount the grip that is being forced out by the tactical muffin top. It's moving the fulcrum in a lever. Ride height and holster length can change the balance point of leverage along the belt. The foam wedge can also be used to adjust this balance.

[Winegamd]

Just be careful not to make the wedge so large you now look like David Bowie in Labyrinth.

[zpelletier]

How you wear your pants can also effect things. I'm fairly short at 5'7" and always wore my pants right on my waistline (under my gut) and the most I could manage was a G19... Probably could have worn a G17 but I don't own one.
Anyway, I tried wearing my high-waisted pants up where they belong and now I can carry a G34 or a Roland with reasonable comfort and flexibility. And with a cover garment no one can see I'm wearing my pants grandpa style, lol.

I think this is a huge factor that generally gets overlooked. If I can keep my pants at my waist appendix carry is significantly more comfortable, regardless of the holster or belt. My issue is, despite all the squats, I have no ass, my pants are sliding down all day. I should probably be looking into some tacticool suspenders

[OnionsAndDragons]

I think this is a huge factor that generally gets overlooked. If I can keep my pants at my waist appendix carry is significantly more comfortable, regardless of the holster or belt. My issue is, despite all the squats, I have no ass, my pants are sliding down all day. I should probably be looking into some tacticool suspenders

I also suffer from Diminished Gluteal Syndrome. I have found suspenders a great augment for pants that don't fit full Goldilocks. Or just for days when my back doesn't want me to add the extra pressure of a belt, I can wear a stiffer belt than usual and use the suspenders to hula-hoop that shit.

[VT1032]

For me, the issue was all how I was wearing my belt. I thought for years I couldn't pull off AIWB, both because I've got a gut and because I'm a big stocky guy with huge legs which pressed the holster into my groin when I sat. The kicker for me is that I was approaching aiwb the way I had found success with strong side IWB. For strong side, the tighter I could get the belt, the better, because it pulled the gun into my hip. Conversely, for appendix, I leave a fair amount of slack in the belt, (ie. one or two loops looser then snug on a leather belt) which leaves things loose enough for the holster to move around and adjust as you move. Coming from strong side, holster movement was the devil, but that's not at all the case with aiwb. For me, it has to be able to move when I sit down and whatnot to be even remotely comfortable. Finally, you just have to play around with it until you find that sweet spot, and when you do you'll know it.

[Shawn Dodson]

Several months ago I got a Keepers Concealment Cornerstone AIWB holster. I experimented with it every way imaginable with the small pad and just couldn't find a method to make it work for me. It just dug into my gut. I'm 6-0, 245#. I put it away and didn't give it much thought until this weekend. This time I finally used the large pad. What a remarkable difference in comfort! No other difference but the pad. I'm going to keep working with it to see if I can make it even better. Pistol is a G43.

[medmo]

The G26 is a good gun but you may quickly find it’s just as easy to conceal a G19 AIWB.

Spot on. My full size 92 conceals and is as comfy as my Px4 CC, (JMCK Wing Claw 2.5), with jeans and untucked t shirt. I recently picked up a Black Rhino Concealment ACS holster so I could carry the Px4 CC AIWB with a TLR7. Just as conceal/comfy as the JMCK. The BRC ACS is a high quality holster also and I recommend along with the JMCK.

[RJ]

I have a try at AIWB every six months or so. In fact I have an older JM CK G17 length holster w wing for my G19 squirreled away in my box o' holsters that I use for this. Unfortunately, for me at least, I've found that I can either carry AIWB, or I can carry a "spare tire." I can't do both. So since I currently have the spare tire, it doesn't work well for me, and I carry behind the hip in a JM CK IWB3.

I'm focusing on the spare tire, and have finally found a diet and exercise approach that is working for me. Once I get to target weight, I will try AIWB again. At age 61, I will probably not end up looking like Duke, but I may surprise myself.

Well, it seems time to try AIWB again. I’ve been making good progress using healthy Keto and weight/cardio. Waist is down to an actual 36.5”, weight finally below 190, consistently.

I bought a pre-owned lefty DSG Hitchhiker from a forum member for my G48, which is on its way to me. It has a Pad and Dark Wing.

Is there a ‘setup’ guide to doing AIWB for a holster? I was thinking of just removing the clips, and shoving that big hunk of metal down my pants (My Lord what did he just say!?) Mexican style, and look in the mirror to see where it ended up? Then attach the clips there, as a starting point?

Belt I plan to use is my MMT Specialist. I’ve been using a Melody Lauer Holster Hack (Dr Scholl’s Gel Heelpad) on my DSG on my LCR and JM CK IWB I wear strong side, so I may try that as well.

Is anyone still using a ‘junk pillow’ on theirs? (Small fabric sewn sack or bag, Velcro’d to the holster, filled with synthetic stuffing material). I seem to recall this being mentioned in older threads.

[Jared]

Several months ago I got a Keepers Concealment Cornerstone AIWB holster. I experimented with it every way imaginable with the small pad and just couldn't find a method to make it work for me. It just dug into my gut. I'm 6-0, 245#. I put it away and didn't give it much thought until this weekend. This time I finally used the large pad. What a remarkable difference in comfort! No other difference but the pad. I'm going to keep working with it to see if I can make it even better. Pistol is a G43.

I’ve been all AIWB for a while now, and certainly have a “dad bod.” I found one of the biggest increase in comfort tricks was to go with long holsters and the flat pad from JM Custom Kydex.

How long? Full size Beretta 92 length is pretty much perfect. I even ordered a new holster for my PX4CC and requested it to be as close to full size 92 length as possible. Tony got it to within about 1/4” of identical. Worn just a tiny bit right of centerline, I can carry for as long as I care to, bend over to tie my shoes, whatever I want. It’s awesome.

[mastiffkb]

I am a big fan of the Keepers Concealment brand. I have used a Keepers lite for my Glocks for several years and recently added a Cornerstone for my p365xl. Both are great products but I think I lean towards preferring the Cornerstone with the Clips. They provide a very secure and stable fit allowing one to have an easily repeatable grip. The pads come in various sizes and are adjustable to find what works for you. I tend to run this holster at the ~1-1:30 position for best comfort.

[Bucky]

I have about 10 or so different AIWB holsters in trying to find the right fit. All the ones I currently use I had to modify to make work, usually by mixing parts from other manufacturers. For example, my G Code has a JMCK Wedge on it. On the other hand, my JMCK 2.5 has a G Code clip on it. The ladder is my current favorite, as it’s comfortable and concealable, which becomes harder for those of us losing the battle of the bulge. Others that have tried my Frankenstein 2.5 really liked it as well.

[Larry T]

Almost every time someone tells me they can't tolerate AIWB and I ask them where they are carrying, they say "right in the middle" meaning centerline. I always tell them to try closer to the hip, closer to 1:30 rather than "high noon". The majority find that all of a sudden AIWB works.

The Tenicor Velo is specifically designed to carry closer to the hip (1:30 to maybe 2:00) but with the hard "Body Contour" it is a "one size fits SOME" and may or may not be perfect. It certainly ISN'T perfect if you try to wear it closer to centerline - but it isn't designed for centerline.

My perfect holster for AIWB is the JM Custom Kydex Wing Claw 2.0. I like the attachment spacing on the 2.0. I can wear it anywhere from 12:30 to 1:45 but it depends on belt loop position. It's more versatile for me than the Velo. The included large wedge or the Dark Star Teardrop work equally well. I also like the rounded muzzle end of the JMCK versus the straight bottom of the Velo.

[UniSol]

Subcompact size guns can be a false economy when it comes to AIWB. It’s already been covered in this thread but a 19 size is generally better than a 26 and a 17 even better for a lot of people. It’s counterintuitive if you’re approaching it from a traditional strong side carry experience. One thing that might be worth trying is Mexican carry (holsterless AIWB ) with an empty chamber just to validate that a bigger gun can be easier. Even if just around the house. Then you can proceed to holster selection. A full day of AIWB with a Glock 17 or equivalent duty size pistol in the drivers seat or conducting a full range of motion is absolutely possible. I have found that I am more likely to struggle with a subcompact in AIWB after a few hours where a Glock 17 clocks in and out for the day with no fuss.

[Bucky]

Subcompact size guns can be a false economy when it comes to AIWB. It’s already been covered in this thread but a 19 size is generally better than a 26 and a 17 even better for a lot of people. It’s counterintuitive if you’re approaching it from a traditional strong side carry experience. One thing that might be worth trying is Mexican carry (holsterless AIWB ) with an empty chamber just to validate that a bigger gun can be easier. Even if just around the house. Then you can proceed to holster selection. A full day of AIWB with a Glock 17 or equivalent duty size pistol in the drivers seat or conducting a full range of motion is absolutely possible. I have found that I am more likely to struggle with a subcompact in AIWB after a few hours where a Glock 17 clocks in and out for the day with no fuss.

So true, especially with some fluff top. My tiny little 43 prints horribly AIWB, whereas my 92 (not so) Compact disappears in my modded JMCK 2.5.

[RJ]

One thing that might be worth trying is Mexican carry (holsterless AIWB ) with an empty chamber just to validate that a bigger gun can be easier. Even if just around the house. Then you can proceed to holster selection.

I think I mentioned I tried that a few weeks ago with a G34. It was surprisingly...doable.

[Elwin]

Is anyone still using a ‘junk pillow’ on theirs? (Small fabric sewn sack or bag, Velcro’d to the holster, filled with synthetic stuffing material). I seem to recall this being mentioned in older threads.

That’s an option, as are the pre-made foam wedges from Mastermind, JMCK, Keepers, and the slightly different take by Darkstar. There’s also Melody’s gel insert as mentioned, and I’ve previously also used thicker foam Scholl’s inserts. I still use those for some small gun applications.

My current favorite option is pieces of yoga block cut to the exact size and shape I want, and attached using Velcro tape from Target (original idea credit to Scott Jedlinski). Yoga block is very dense and resists shrinking over time, yet is soft enough to be comfortable. One block is enough material for probably dozens of applications (I use it for mag carriers and IWB sheaths as well). You’ll probably need to super glue the Velcro tape to the wedge because it doesn’t stick to the foam well otherwise, but with that step added this has been working for me for years now.

Also, second to the recent comments on length. I’m carrying a 4” 1911 in a government length holster, and previously carried a 4” P99 in holsters for a 5” PPQ, and wouldn’t have it any other way.

[Clusterfrack]

Is anyone still using a ‘junk pillow’ on theirs? (Small fabric sewn sack or bag, Velcro’d to the holster, filled with synthetic stuffing material). I seem to recall this being mentioned in older threads.

Yes, I use my Junk Carry Pillows on all of my holsters. It’s what makes AIWB truly comfortable for me. The trick is having a wedge that matches the stiffness of your body. It turns out that the materials properties of the human ass have been studied quite extensively in the design of seat cushions. For example, this study (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gerhard_Silber/publication/5517096_Analysis_of_mechanical_interaction_between _human_gluteal_soft_tissue_and_body_supports/links/5c52ba2c458515a4c74c596a/Analysis-of-mechanical-interaction-between-human-gluteal-soft-tissue-and-body-supports.pdf). You want a wedge that's about as soft as your ass.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201226/cbba607cd5b36c32c9bc34186e2065f0.jpg

[RJ]

Well, it seems time to try AIWB again...



Said holster arrived today. Thoughts?

65230

Holster is a used DSG Hitchhiker, in orange, lefty, for my G48. orionz06

I left it setup as I received it, it has the DSG foam teardrop shaped pad, centered on the backer. The holster has a single metal clip, attached to the upper of the three lower holes. The DSG wing is attached. Pants are a size 34", about 2" bigger than I wear these days (32"). T-Shirt is a Hanes size XL, typical for me in FL. My G48 is unmodified, except for a Tau Industries Striker Control Device aka "Gadget" and Ameriglo tritium sights, front and rear. The G48 is my EDC.

Comfort standing is great, sitting is "ok", actually. The belt (MMT Specialist) ended up being not nearly as tight as I thought it might be. In fact, I'd say it was a bit loose, but I spent a minute or three playing with the tension so that it was tight enough to hold my pants up, but loose enough to give slightly when I was sitting. I don't know if this is normal? Grip and draw are positive. Just did a very few dry unloaded so far. Will put it on the timer next chance I get.

It's clear the 24.6 lb weight loss I've had since October has made this possible. There's no way I'd have room to shove a gun down the front of my pants before. I think the more I lose, the better this will fit. I mean, I will not end up looking like Duke, but still. It's possible this may work out, better, long term, than my current EDC (a JM CK IWB3, worn behind the hip, which I love). I will continue to wear it around the house and post back any questions, but if you see anything grossly wrong in the above, I'd be grateful for the feedback.

[RJ]

Yes, I use my Junk Carry Pillows on all of my holsters.



Clusterfrack I remember that now. Did you ever post a ‘pattern’ to go by, in terms of sewing, or what padding material you used? I’m ok with a sewing machine, and can probably wing it after a trip to Michael’s Crafts, but was curious if there was a better starting point. Thanks.

[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack I remember that now. Did you ever post a ‘pattern’ to go by, in terms of sewing, or what padding material you used? I’m ok with a sewing machine, and can probably wing it after a trip to Michael’s Crafts, but was curious if there was a better starting point. Thanks.

I don't have a pattern, although I was talking with Mrs. CF about making one. Meanwhile, Here's the original JCP thread:


Dear fellow AIWB (aka "junk") carriers,

I have finally put together some illustrated instructions for my Junk Carry Pillow (JCP), as seen in the JMCK thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?3597-JM-Custom-Kydex-AIWB-holster-review/page61) and elsewhere. A few notes before I get into the details: 1) I use this device to cushion my AIWB holsters, which are carried at 12:30, and ride between junk and thigh (not over the leg at 1:00). 2) Comfort is one reason I use a cushion, but it also ensures that the muzzle is pointed away from my body. I'll leave it up to you to decide if this device might be a good idea for you; if you shoot your dick off it's not my fault. 3) I am not very good at sewing, and won't make one of these for anyone so don't ask.

Components:
Multicam NyCo ripstop fabric (http://www.rockywoods.com/Fabrics-Kits/Military-Lightweight-Fabrics/50-50-Nylon-Cotton-Ripstop-Fabric-MultiCam-Camo)

Hook velcro (http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/Velcro-Tape-Fasteners/1-Mil-Spec-Tape-Fastener-Loop) (use two long strips side by side for more flexibility to conform to holster).

Sticky loop velcro (http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/Velcro-Tape-Fasteners/2-tape-fastener-loop-side-adhesive-back-Black)

Instructions:
Cut enough sticky velcro to cover lower inside of holster. Round off corners with scissors. Clean holster twice with rubbing alcohol, and heat gently with a hair dryer. Then apply sticky velcro, making sure to cover the part that rubs on your inner thigh.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/cb64f0f28a3c5704fda65385ee04fbe2.jpg

Cut cloth into a 12" x 4" strip (or 12 x 3 if you want a narrower pillow).

Sew on two strips of hook velcro making sure total width is no greater than your loop strip on the holster. Note in the pictures below how the velcro goes on one side of the strip, but leaves room for the wide "bellows" described below. The gap between the hook velcro makes the pillow conform to the holster better than one big strip.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/759af374b4eed84322ed836401ab080b.jpg

Bonus for cutting the thread with your Ban Tang Clinch Pick.

Now, work on the inside of the cloth.

Sew off top edges to prevent unravelling.

Fold cloth in half, and make a "bellows" at the bottom.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/29d7be2a52040e21a2a02b3676539021.jpg

Sew the four edges of the bellows at 45 degrees.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/af884ea91e12c6bcf6025a08b2281087.jpg

Sew the sides of the cloth to make a pocket with the bellows at the end. Stop at the bellows. Don't sew into it.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/d7c485b9f3b78f463399f6f012c6269e.jpg

Turn the pocket right side out and check dimensions. If you suck at sewing like me, you'll probably have to redo it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/b2edf7290934c8eb224765a349459573.jpg


If it looks good, sew the sides and the bellows a second time so it doesn't come apart in the washing machine. You may want to taper the side stitches toward the mouth of the pocket.

Stuff the pocket with polyfill to make a pillow. Try it on the holster, and test it in your pants using an unloaded gun.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/0f58d91810cf68dfc89cdd32f7254992.jpg

When it's right, close the top with a single line of stitches. (You may want to open it again after the stuffing compresses.)

Add a vertical line of stitches between the velcro strips to keep the polyfill down at the bottom of the JCP where it belongs.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/9ad2f6b563208fd0639d84c088e8fcfc.jpg

Good job dude! Your JCP is done.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180530/d76ebdfcbef621166c4b8238ce8ba133.jpg

[RJ]

^ Outstanding! Thank you sir!

[GAP]

RJ I have always found placing the foam wedge sideways so that the thicker end is toward the middle is more comfortable and has the same effect as a wing. It does a really nice job of tucking the grip and distributing the pressure over a much wider area.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32114-Glock-26-Gen-5/page4

Post # 145

[RJ]

RJ I have always found placing the foam wedge sideways so that the thicker end is toward the middle is more comfortable and has the same effect as a wing. It does a really nice job of tucking the grip and distributing the pressure over a much wider area.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?32114-Glock-26-Gen-5/page4

Post # 145

Gotcha. Interestingly enough, last night I moved the DSG foam teardrop about 1/4” towards cenoterline on the Velcro backer. Same concept as above. It seemed to fit my, ah, anatomy, a bit better. This echos what I recall from various of y’all that AIWB success only comes with the right equipment and a dedicated effort to refine the adjustments to suit one’s self.

I thought long and hard about what gun (long flat skinny G48), holster (Dark Star) and belt (Mastermind Specialist) before giving it a go again this time.

[Casual Friday]

Somewhere buried in the 100+ page AIWB thread Todd and few others mentioned the Safariland Model 27. It's not a purpose built AIWB holster, it's just a straight drop leather IWB holster with a J hook that works surprisingly well AIWB and is very comfortable to wear. I bought one back then and I still use it quite frequently for quick trips to the store and such.

[Squib308]

Clusterfrack

Have you tried cutting a yoga block to create wedge? I’ve found it works great and is very simple. Velcro adheres perfectly. The yoga block material is soft yet firm and doesn’t bind with underwear like the Dr Schols shoe cushion (I found this was crap). If my holster is long enough I don’t need a wedge but for shorter holsters I still use the yoga block wedges.

[orionz06]

Clusterfrack

Have you tried cutting a yoga block to create wedge? I’ve found it works great and is very simple. Velcro adheres perfectly. The yoga block material is soft yet firm and doesn’t bind with underwear like the Dr Schols shoe cushion (I found this was crap). If my holster is long enough I don’t need a wedge but for shorter holsters I still use the yoga block wedges.

Yoga blocks also shape super easy with a sanding block.

[Clusterfrack]

Clusterfrack

Have you tried cutting a yoga block to create wedge? I’ve found it works great and is very simple. Velcro adheres perfectly. The yoga block material is soft yet firm and doesn’t bind with underwear like the Dr Schols shoe cushion (I found this was crap). If my holster is long enough I don’t need a wedge but for shorter holsters I still use the yoga block wedges.

I’ve tried a bunch of different foam wedges, and they are all way too stiff. Basically if I wouldn’t sleep on it, it’s too stiff to be maximally comfortable.

[RJ]

Gotcha. Interestingly enough, last night I moved the DSG foam teardrop about 1/4” towards cenoterline on the Velcro backer. Same concept as above. It seemed to fit my, ah, anatomy, a bit better. This echos what I recall from various of y’all that AIWB success only comes with the right equipment and a dedicated effort to refine the adjustments to suit one’s self.

I thought long and hard about what gun (long flat skinny G48), holster (Dark Star) and belt (Mastermind Specialist) before giving it a go again this time.

So this morning I swapped out the metal clip for a pair of PTD loops. The fit seems more, I don't know, elastic? The loops allow a bit more room. The gun might appear to be sagging a bit but it's very secure on me. I am wearing +2 shorts (size 34", I am at a 32" due to the recent weight loss) so there is some room, which the holster appears to fill up nicely. Oh, and this shirt if one of my XLs, so it drapes fairly well.

Does this look too weird? It feels ok, and dry draws seem fine.

65441

I wore it around the house, then chambered up and we went out for errands. Nothing of note, really. The seat belt in our car covers the holster, which is a bit odd feeling as it snugs down. Movement is good, just the feel of the holster on my strong side hip joint. Sitting at lunch at PDQ was again, fine. The teardrop seems to be in the right, ah, place, as it were, at the moment.

I'm quite astonished that it seems like I can make AIWB work, after all these years.

[orionz06]

Soft loops will allow for a little float on the belt. The waist shape is dynamic, so helping the gun move independent of the belt and not working against the body can help for some folks. Others prefer things to be locked to the belt, but we've fixed more CS problems with a little float than we have with locking things down.

[Clusterfrack]

@rj, have you tried lowering the holster toward the belt line? I find that helps a lot, and keeps the gun from tipping out and putting pressure at the lower abdomen/groin area.

[Elwin]

@rj, have you tried lowering the holster toward the belt line? I find that helps a lot, and keeps the gun from tipping out and putting pressure at the lower abdomen/groin area.

That and/or a longer holster (Dark Star and JM both make 48 holsters that are the same overall length as a 17 or a 34) - that was my first thought looking at your photos.

[RJ]

@rj, have you tried lowering the holster toward the belt line? I find that helps a lot, and keeps the gun from tipping out and putting pressure at the lower abdomen/groin area.

Thanks, and yes (kinda). I moved one of the PTD loops so the rear went a bit deeper. But then my draws were harder, due to not having as much room to establish a master grip. So I put it back. It’s pretty hard from just the photo obviously but I don’t feel it’s tilting out too much, but I don’t know what I don’t know. I’ll keep fiddling with it. Thanks!

[RJ]

That and/or a longer holster (Dark Star and JM both make 48 holsters that are the same overall length as a 17 or a 34) - that was my first thought looking at your photos.

Good point, thanks, I’ll see if I can make this work for now. I’m planing another 2-3” of waistline reduction in 2021 and will re-evaluate after that.

[RJ]

Soft loops will allow for a little float on the belt. The waist shape is dynamic, so helping the gun move independent of the belt and not working against the body can help for some folks. Others prefer things to be locked to the belt, but we've fixed more CS problems with a little float than we have with locking things down.

Thanks Tom, much appreciate the guidance.

[Clusterfrack]

Yes, there's a tradeoff between ride height and ease of draw. However, every single one of my JMCK AIWB holsters uses the top set of holes (lowest ride). I trim the soft loops on the grip side so they don't interfere with my fingers on establishing a grip. I think the "high ride" would have to be for a much taller person. It feels awkward to me. And uncomfortable.

P-07. JMCK AIWB Wing Claw 2.5
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201230/5c198267eb0f2ce7f05b1eab7081a227.jpg


Glock 20. JMCK AIWB Wing Claw 2.5. Note saggy belt.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201230/a9e525458cb6198a4232a297cfdc6efe.jpg



Thanks, and yes (kinda). I moved one of the PTD loops so the rear went a bit deeper. But then my draws were harder, due to not having as much room to establish a master grip. So I put it back. It’s pretty hard from just the photo obviously but I don’t feel it’s tilting out too much, but I don’t know what I don’t know. I’ll keep fiddling with it. Thanks!

[Larry T]

So this morning I swapped out the metal clip for a pair of PTD loops. The fit seems more, I don't know, elastic? The loops allow a bit more room. The gun might appear to be sagging a bit but it's very secure on me. I am wearing +2 shorts (size 34", I am at a 32" due to the recent weight loss) so there is some room, which the holster appears to fill up nicely. Oh, and this shirt if one of my XLs, so it drapes fairly well.

Does this look too weird? It feels ok, and dry draws seem fine.

65441

I wore it around the house, then chambered up and we went out for errands. Nothing of note, really. The seat belt in our car covers the holster, which is a bit odd feeling as it snugs down. Movement is good, just the feel of the holster on my strong side hip joint. Sitting at lunch at PDQ was again, fine. The teardrop seems to be in the right, ah, place, as it were, at the moment.

I'm quite astonished that it seems like I can make AIWB work, after all these years.

It may be the angle in the pic, but it looks like a lot of reverse cant there. it also looks like the ride is higher than necessary to get a good firing grip in the draw. Again, maybe it's the pic?

[RJ]

Yes, there's a tradeoff between ride height and ease of draw. However, every single one of my JMCK AIWB holsters uses the top set of holes (lowest ride). I trim the soft loops on the grip side so they don't interfere with my fingers on establishing a grip. I think the "high ride" would have to be for a much taller person. It feels awkward to me. And uncomfortable.



Yeah, I am for sure not exactly "overtall". :cool:

Ok, great, a couple more things/adjustments: I looked at your pictures and your belt is threaded 180 out from mine. Your tail loop goes away from the centerline, I was going to. So I flipped the belt around; now the holster PTD loops are located at the "thick" end of the MMT belt - perhaps I was unaware it had a "side"? Anyway.

I also moved both loops to the top rows. Now,I can get a master grip, and the "tilting" / "reverse" cant that Larry T mentioned above isn't there, or at least not nearly as much:

65449

I'm going to leave it setup this way and get the timer out later on.

THANKS ALL!!! This is why I love this place. I've always said Pistol-Forum is not where you get what you "want" to hear, you get what you "need" to hear. :) Much much much appreciate the help and assistance in dialing this in.

[Caballoflaco]

RJ try it with some pants that you don’t have to trap the belt loop between the ptd loops too. I personally don’t like how trapping the belt loop transfers gun movement to my pants. But as always ymmv and holster fit/comfort is a lot of personal preference.

[Sal Picante]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201230/a9e525458cb6198a4232a297cfdc6efe.jpg


Wait... wait... wait... SYSTEMA!?

[Clusterfrack]

Wait... wait... wait... SYSTEMA!?

The pandemic has made things even more challenging...


FYI, n95 masks don’t stop punches.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201029/65b51fc2e53ca946345cadc450c1da6f.jpg

[Sal Picante]

The pandemic has made things even more challenging...

You mean "face blocking"? ;)

[RJ]

RJ try it with some pants that you don’t have to trap the belt loop between the ptd loops too. I personally don’t like how trapping the belt loop transfers gun movement to my pants. But as always ymmv and holster fit/comfort is a lot of personal preference.

Will do. As a newb, I just picked that location astride that belt loop as a convenient repeatable reference point. I’ll try either side aft/forward and see how it goes. Much appreciate you pointing that out.

PS I also moved the teardrop again; resiting the holster lower meant I needed to move pad up a bit.

[Clusterfrack]

PS I also moved the teardrop again; resiting the holster lower meant I needed to move pad up a bit.

My pads hang below the holster, adding a little effective length, but still flexible enough for doing ninja stuff.

[UNK]

I have always carried either OWB or IWB between the 3 and 5 position. I am interested in carrying my Glock 26 AIWB but curious what is the most comfortable AIWB holster? I've never carried AIWB so flying blind on this but much appreaciate the advice.

Thanks

Great advice here. Unfortunately theres no answer but trying. Theres a thread over in Coterie thats for supporting members only. Its called Official Borrowers Thread. If you ask there you might be able to find some holsters to try before you buy. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?46047-Official-BORROWERS-THREAD&p=1161462&viewfull=1#post1161462

[RJ]

Will do. As a newb, I just picked that location astride that belt loop as a convenient repeatable reference point. I’ll try either side aft/forward and see how it goes. Much appreciate you pointing that out.

PS I also moved the teardrop again; resiting the holster lower meant I needed to move pad up a bit.

Today's adjustment was to move the holster both outboard and inboard to experiment how it felt. Outboard did not work, there was an immediate pressure point in my thigh. Inboard, much better, in fact I'll keep it here. I moved the pad slightly as well.

I also put a PTD loop on my G19 mag holster and shoved in a G48 magazine. It fits oddly but is enough for me to determine if carrying a mag here is doable. Here is where I ended up as far as position. Does this look too odd? It feels ok. I can stand, sit and walk with it here. I mean, I shoved my T-shirt in behind it to cover my ripped abs (kidding) but it is canted over pretty far.

65506

I'm about to head out to lunch so plan to carry 11+10 over there. If the mag carrier position/method is ok, I think I'll pick up one of Tom's Koalas.

https://darkstargear.com/product/koala/

[orionz06]

Today's adjustment was to move the holster both outboard and inboard to experiment how it felt. Outboard did not work, there was an immediate pressure point in my thigh. Inboard, much better, in fact I'll keep it here. I moved the pad slightly as well.

I also put a PTD loop on my G19 mag holster and shoved in a G48 magazine. It fits oddly but is enough for me to determine if carrying a mag here is doable. Here is where I ended up as far as position. Does this look too odd? It feels ok. I can stand, sit and walk with it here. I mean, I shoved my T-shirt in behind it to cover my ripped abs (kidding) but it is canted over pretty far.

65506

I'm about to head out to lunch so plan to carry 11+10 over there. If the mag carrier position/method is ok, I think I'll pick up one of Tom's Koalas.

https://darkstargear.com/product/koala/

merry20 for 20% off.

[Clusterfrack]

Looking good. I'm sure you've discovered that what pants you wear makes a YUGE difference in AIWB carry. High or low waist, position of belt loops, etc. Suggest experimenting with pants.


Today's adjustment was to move the holster both outboard and inboard to experiment how it felt. Outboard did not work, there was an immediate pressure point in my thigh. Inboard, much better, in fact I'll keep it here. I moved the pad slightly as well.

I also put a PTD loop on my G19 mag holster and shoved in a G48 magazine. It fits oddly but is enough for me to determine if carrying a mag here is doable. Here is where I ended up as far as position. Does this look too odd? It feels ok. I can stand, sit and walk with it here. I mean, I shoved my T-shirt in behind it to cover my ripped abs (kidding) but it is canted over pretty far.

65506

I'm about to head out to lunch so plan to carry 11+10 over there. If the mag carrier position/method is ok, I think I'll pick up one of Tom's Koalas.

https://darkstargear.com/product/koala/

[RJ]

I don't have a pattern, although I was talking with Mrs. CF about making one...

Clusterfrack, as discussed, I drafted up a pattern I intend to use to make a JCP. My application is for my Glock 48 in a Dark Star Hitchhiker, so I made it a little smaller, i.e. a JCP (compact).

I got some basic cotton fabric today at the craft store. Pictured below is a "test" version that I put together with staples, just as a prototype to see how it would go together. The shape and size shows how big it will be, compared to the foam pad currently attached to my DSG holster. I think it will end up approximately the same size, but be more "squishier" (?) than the foam. Should be interesting.

65849

The pattern version 1.1 is attached below. If anyone wants to use this, just download the pdf and print it full size, no scaling. Then follow CF's instructions above, or the steps on the pattern. I'd appreciate any feedback on this.

65850

I'll post back when I get the Velcro strips and Poli-fil put in, and the JCP attached to the holster. Many thanks for the idea.

[Clusterfrack]

Awesome! The pattern looks good. Thanks for doing this, @RJ.
FYI, I like to place a longer loop velcro strip on the holster so I can adjust the vertical position of the pillow. I like it to extend slightly below the end of the holster in most cases, and to be a bit more toward the right leg. I think your velcro patch will do nicely.



Clusterfrack, as discussed, I drafted up a pattern I intend to use to make a JCP. My application is for my Glock 48 in a Dark Star Hitchhiker, so I made it a little smaller, i.e. a JCP (compact).

I got some basic cotton fabric today at the craft store. Pictured below is a "test" version that I put together with staples, just as a prototype to see how it would go together. The shape and size shows how big it will be, compared to the foam pad currently attached to my DSG holster. I think it will end up approximately the same size, but be more "squishier" (?) than the foam. Should be interesting.

65849

The pattern version 1.1 is attached below. If anyone wants to use this, just download the pdf and print it full size, no scaling. Then follow CF's instructions above, or the steps on the pattern. I'd appreciate any feedback on this.

65850

I'll post back when I get the Velcro strips and Poli-fil put in, and the JCP attached to the holster. Many thanks for the idea.

[Winegamd]

What foam pad is that? Is it one of the teardrop pads from DSG?

[RJ]

What foam pad is that? Is it one of the teardrop pads from DSG?

It came with the holster (DSG Hitchhiker), which I bought used from a forum member. It's my belief that it is the OEM pad from DSG, yes, but I'd defer to Tom on that.

[RJ]

On the topic of AIWB comfort, I wanted to ask about undershirts.

One of the main things I used to worry about in "starting to carry a gun" was the rubbing of the holster against my skin. I'm in Florida, so typically wear only a T-shirt or polo. I distinctly remember the feeling of trying to CCW with my M&P full size in a generic gun store holster, with Trigicon HD sights, which tore up my soft office-boy midsection something fierce. Having more of a muffin top did not help.

Now that I've learned a bit more, and am carrying more sensibly in holsters by either JM CK or Dark Star Gear, I'd like to revisit undershirts, in particular for AIWB. After doing a bit of research this week, I ordered a poly/spandex compression shirt to try from Amazon, which should arrive today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PPF9LLF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Do you find wearing an undershirt helps with comfort, draw speed, or (in particular if you are in hot muggy weather) heat management?

If so, what types/brands/fabrics do you suggest?

[RJ]

Briefly back on the JCP, this is the fabric I bought at Michael's Crafts yesterday in Clearwater. $1.49 for a large piece, enough to make several of these. It's 100% cotton.

65876

[kjr_29]

On the topic of AIWB comfort, I wanted to ask about undershirts.

One of the main things I used to worry about in "starting to carry a gun" was the rubbing of the holster against my skin. I'm in Florida, so typically wear only a T-shirt or polo. I distinctly remember the feeling of trying to CCW with my M&P full size in a generic gun store holster, with Trigicon HD sights, which tore up my soft office-boy midsection something fierce. Having more of a muffin top did not help.

Now that I've learned a bit more, and am carrying more sensibly in holsters by either JM CK or Dark Star Gear, I'd like to revisit undershirts, in particular for AIWB. After doing a bit of research this week, I ordered a poly/spandex compression shirt to try from Amazon, which should arrive today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PPF9LLF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Do you find wearing an undershirt helps with comfort, draw speed, or (in particular if you are in hot muggy weather) heat management?

If so, what types/brands/fabrics do you suggest?

I am in CO now so muggy is not part of the equation, but I did live in Miami for 4 years so I know muggy. My thought, it improves comfort some, but nothing noticeable for my draw speed. I do like a full sweat guard on the holster though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[csheehy]

On the topic of AIWB comfort, I wanted to ask about undershirts.

One of the main things I used to worry about in "starting to carry a gun" was the rubbing of the holster against my skin. I'm in Florida, so typically wear only a T-shirt or polo. I distinctly remember the feeling of trying to CCW with my M&P full size in a generic gun store holster, with Trigicon HD sights, which tore up my soft office-boy midsection something fierce. Having more of a muffin top did not help.

Now that I've learned a bit more, and am carrying more sensibly in holsters by either JM CK or Dark Star Gear, I'd like to revisit undershirts, in particular for AIWB. After doing a bit of research this week, I ordered a poly/spandex compression shirt to try from Amazon, which should arrive today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PPF9LLF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Do you find wearing an undershirt helps with comfort, draw speed, or (in particular if you are in hot muggy weather) heat management?

If so, what types/brands/fabrics do you suggest?

Tried various shirts over the years, but for the last ten years or so have used these:
https://amazon.com/32-DEGREES-Mens-Cool-Tee-Black-XL/dp/B07HZXPFNL/ref=sr_1_7?crid=22W4I8JNWIAET&dchild=1&keywords=cool+32+degrees+mens+tshirt&qid=1610113798&sprefix=Cool+32%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-7

Often available at Costco in 3 packs, can also be found on Amazon in multi packs sometimes. Started using them under my armor, and gradually morphed into year round wear, even in summer, under a polo or a camp shirt.

[LittleLebowski]

Tried various shirts over the years, but for the last ten years or so have used these:
https://amazon.com/32-DEGREES-Mens-Cool-Tee-Black-XL/dp/B07HZXPFNL/ref=sr_1_7?crid=22W4I8JNWIAET&dchild=1&keywords=cool+32+degrees+mens+tshirt&qid=1610113798&sprefix=Cool+32%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-7

Often available at Costco in 3 packs, can also be found on Amazon in multi packs sometimes. Started using them under my armor, and gradually morphed into year round wear, even in summer, under a polo or a camp shirt.

Were I wearing armor on a daily basis, I’d look at the new (to me) merino wool lightweight shirts.

https://www.amazon.com/Merino-tech-Organic-Lightweight-Thermal-T-Shirt/dp/B08B1W5FQV/

[csheehy]

LL: Not to go to far OT, but love merino wool--have bought some truly excellent long underwear and hoodies for use in fall/winter. Would love to go with something like the above for all uses. But: $$$ not in the budget I'm afraid.

[LittleLebowski]

LL: Not to go to far OT, but love merino wool--have bought some truly excellent long underwear and hoodies for use in fall/winter. Would love to go with something like the above for all uses. But: $$$ not in the budget I'm afraid.

PF would be happy to reimburse you for the cost of one if you’ll review it.

[Elwin]

You’ll get radically different answers from different people on undershirts, I think, just based on pictures of people’s AIWB rigs on this forum. I for one simply can’t carry without one. If I’m wearing a polo or T shirt, I have an A shirt/“wifebeater” shirt underneath. I use white Vneck Ts under my button up shirts. They’re an “always” thing for me to the extent that I wear an undershirt even when wearing a button up and sweater with the gun between them.

It helps in comfort, is a neutral or maybe slight negative for draw (you can accidentally grab undershirt with the gun), and cuts both ways on heat management - it’s another layer, but it also protects the outer garment from the sweat factories that are my pits.

I don’t have specific recommendations but I’m interested in what others say. I’m using generic cotton shirts of both types, but I’m sure there’s something better and longer lasting. My one personal caveat is that I can’t do the crew neck undershirt under an open collar thing - my undershirt needs to not be visible. Just a personal style preference.

[Rex G]

When I started wearing Smartwool T-shirts, under my body armor, they protected my uniform shirts from the formation of sweat stains, in the armpit areas. They also mitigated odor formation in the uniform shirts and armor carriers. Of course, the Smartwool T-shirts, themselves, harbor very little B.O. Smartwool uses a Merino wool blend.

Having said that, in the summers, I started using Ex Officio T-shirts, under my armor, and under just about everything else, due to being cooler than Smartwool, and also protecting my uniform shirts from sweat stains.

I live in SE Texas, about 50 miles inland from the Gulf of Texico; the wet, green, humid part of Texas

[ST911]

I like...

Kuhl Valiant, hybrid poly/wool, has different material on the top of the shoulder for slip if you're wearing armor, pack straps, etc.
https://www.kuhl.com/kuhl/mens/short-sleeve/ms-valiant-ss-box/

Beyond A1 Power Wool crew.
https://beyondclothing.com/products/a1-power-wool-crew?variant=32487418658878

[luckyman]

Were I wearing armor on a daily basis, I’d look at the new (to me) merino wool lightweight shirts.

https://www.amazon.com/Merino-tech-Organic-Lightweight-Thermal-T-Shirt/dp/B08B1W5FQV/

That’s a nice price for Merino. Can you compare them to any of the more expensive lines like smartwool or icebreakers or anything? Underarmour keeps tweaking the heatgear style I prefer, to the point I was considering merino but the price was making me hesitate.

[RJ]

Tried various shirts over the years, but for the last ten years or so have used these:
https://amazon.com/32-DEGREES-Mens-Cool-Tee-Black-XL/dp/B07HZXPFNL/ref=sr_1_7?crid=22W4I8JNWIAET&dchild=1&keywords=cool+32+degrees+mens+tshirt&qid=1610113798&sprefix=Cool+32%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-7

Often available at Costco in 3 packs, can also be found on Amazon in multi packs sometimes. Started using them under my armor, and gradually morphed into year round wear, even in summer, under a polo or a camp shirt.

Excellent, thanks for the tip. I will see if my local Costco has these, and report back later on the one that I ordered from Amazon.

[Clusterfrack]

Do you find wearing an undershirt helps with comfort, draw speed, or (in particular if you are in hot muggy weather) heat management?

If so, what types/brands/fabrics do you suggest?

Great question. As with everything AIWB, my answer is ‘it depends’.

For raw draw speed, and repetitive draw practice without getting a tummy rash, a BJJ rash guard or compression T is my choice.

But, a slippery undershirt makes my pants tend to slip down more, requiring a tighter belt. So, for all-day carry I use either no undershirt in hot weather, a Lycra-cotton blend, or the 32deg Costco shirts mentioned above.

Tighter is better for drawing. Loose undershirts can snag my thumb, or get fouled in my fingers as I draw the gun.

For comfort, it doesn’t matter unless it’s really hot or I’m doing a high output activity. In that case, the 32 deg shirts seem to wick and dry the best.

[Caballoflaco]

Having said that, in the summers, I started using Ex Officio T-shirts, under my armor, and under just about everything else, due to being cooler than Smartwool, and also protecting my uniform shirts from sweat stains.

I live in SE Texas, about 50 miles inland from the Gulf of Texico; the wet, green, humid part of Texas

I’m in central Alabama and I’ve found that no matter how high tech none of the wool blends work as well as synthetics when it starts getting hot and humid. (Side note: this includes wool socks which suck out loud combined with a goretex boots)

Also, due to working outside I don’t worry about an undershirt when it gets hot out because I just sweat through both shirts and two shirts are hotter that’s one. If I was just running errands that were mainly indoors an undershirt wouldn’t be a problem, but I only bother if I’m wearing a button down where fashion dictates it as necessary.

[csheehy]

Excellent, thanks for the tip. I will see if my local Costco has these, and report back later on the one that I ordered from Amazon.

RJ, you won't see them until probably March or so in the stores. They carry long sleeve t-shirts and long under wear by the same manufacturer but it's a totally different knit and/or materials.

From the manufacturer's website:

https://www.32degrees.com/products/mens-cool-crew-neck-tee-shirt?collection=cool&variant=3015431323688

Cheaper than Amazon.

[Clusterfrack]

I just swapped guns for today. The p-07 is actually more comfortable and feels lighter.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210108/9d6e5eb4c61a4e948844b7ae83ceddc6.jpg

[dontshakepandas]

RJ, you won't see them until probably March or so in the stores. They carry long sleeve t-shirts and long under wear by the same manufacturer but it's a totally different knit and/or materials.

From the manufacturer's website:

https://www.32degrees.com/products/mens-cool-crew-neck-tee-shirt?collection=cool&variant=3015431323688

Cheaper than Amazon.

I didn't know I needed these, but have 4 on the way now.

[RJ]

I didn't know I needed these, but have 4 on the way now.

Holy crap. They’re $4.99 if I’m reading it right? Do these fit true to size? I’m an XL in transition to L.

[csheehy]

Yes, true to size. It's not a compression shirt. I'm about 6'2" and, ahhhhhhhh...225 lbs. I take an XL. and it fits properly. Doesn't hang like a tent, and hangs slightly below the beltline. Won't pull out of your pants when tucked in, absent wrestling an alligator or something.

[Bucky]

I just swapped guns for today. The p-07 is actually more comfortable and feels lighter.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210108/9d6e5eb4c61a4e948844b7ae83ceddc6.jpg

Swapped with the other gun pictured?

[RJ]

Now that I've learned a bit more, and am carrying more sensibly in holsters by either JM CK or Dark Star Gear, I'd like to revisit undershirts, in particular for AIWB. After doing a bit of research this week, I ordered a poly/spandex compression shirt to try from Amazon, which should arrive today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PPF9LLF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



This shirt arrived. Overall fit is tight/snug but not overly. I wore an XL at 210 lbs but I’m at 187.2 this morning. So they say order one size larger. I ended up ordering an XL figuring it would be ok; it was.

I’ve never been an undershirt guy through 30+ years of corporate suit and tie. So it’s kinda odd to have on.

I did 10 minutes of dry draws with my DSG / G48, timed with my AMG Commander, hitting between 1.6 and 1.8s to a press on a good sight picture to a scaled USPSA A zone at 7 feet (yards). I can see how an undershirt can help avoid rubbing my belly on the master grip. There’s much less rubbing and friction with the undershirt. As I continue to lose weight it should get better.

I think the undershirt will be most useful for me for training / classes with a lot of repetitive draws. I’m not sure I’d wear one this tight every day.

[Clusterfrack]

Swapped with the other gun pictured?

Yes. LCR.

[RJ]

I didn't know I needed these, but have 4 on the way now.

Me too. :)

I went ahead and checked my local Costco, no stock. So I ordered 4xsize L in black direct. I’m not having issues, the DSG has a full sweatguard and I’m not feeling any pain. These would be more for classes and what not.

In related news, I just completed two days carrying the G48 AIWB in complete comfort. If youd’ve said I could do this, six months ago, I would have said that’s completely nuts.

We did an hour drive to Venice FL and back to check on our house, walked around, ate out several places, shopped for furniture, got gas etc. with zero issues. I had moved the pad maybe 1/4” to ease some hot spots. That’s it. It’s kind of like the feeling I get carrying in a fanny pack. My MMT belt isn’t cinching down tight like I have to with behind the hip. The gun isn’t digging into the seatback when driving. I feel like my dry draws, at 1.6-1.8s, without any real structured practice, are vastly quicker than behind the hip.

Now I’m kinda wondering if Tom makes a hitchhiker for a G34...:cool:

[orionz06]

The Orion, and yes.

[tjmitchem]

For undershirts, I've had good luck with UnderArmour. The one's below are well-made and fairly cheap. I usually wear a Columbia Tamiami fishing shirt on top to conceal.

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/under-armour-mens-tech-t-shirt-18uarmtchsstxxxxxapta

[RJ]

Purely for my own amusement, I mocked up a "G34 AIWB" holster from an old BT OWB flipped over, drilled, with a PTD loop.

66027

Astonishingly, to me anyway, it was actually workable. The top of the slide rear/beavertail made a bit of an impression on my middle, and the longer slide meant less ability for me to "bend" at the waist. But I was frankly astonished that I could actually get away with carrying a pistol this size.

66028

If only I had a gun that was in between the G48 and G34 in size...that held 15 rounds...that could accept an SCD...:cool:

[Elwin]

If only I had a gun that was in between the G48 and G34 in size...that held 15 rounds...that could accept an SCD...:cool:

Yeah, sounds like you need a G17 Orion for your G19.

[RJ]

Yeah, sounds like you need a G17 Orion for your G19.

Get thee behind me Satan. :)

But yeah, you are probably right. Talk about mind blown. If I had known that I could basically get away with a G17 sized gun three years ago...that was sitting in my hands...woah. (to be fair, there's NO WAY I would be doing this without having dropped the weight.) So I have drawn back from the brink of selling my (well worn) G19. I just realized I had a spare Ameriglo 0.180" tritium front, which I just put on. Ordered a 0.256" rear from MGW as I've managed to lose mine somewhere or other. And of course the G17/34 mags will work just fine.

Anyway, back on topic: I can't say enough about all the AIWB help that this thread has provided me in the last few weeks. Carrying this way the last few days it just makes perfect sense. I don't see me ever going back to behind the hip. I really appreciate you guys.

[Elwin]

Get thee behind me Satan. :)

Oh don't pretend it's my fault, you haven't seen anything even close to the worst of it yet. First you'll need the G17 Orion for your 19, then hell, may as well get one for the 34 too, since you have it. Then you'll decide whether you like the 17 or 34 length better and find you really need that length for your 48 too so everything's consistent, and oh right, gotta have a Koala for the 19/17/34 mags, and spares are a good idea, and . . .

And then Tom will have as much of your money as Tony has of mine.

[orionz06]

Get thee behind me Satan. :)

But yeah, you are probably right. Talk about mind blown. If I had known that I could basically get away with a G17 sized gun three years ago...that was sitting in my hands...woah. (to be fair, there's NO WAY I would be doing this without having dropped the weight.) So I have drawn back from the brink of selling my (well worn) G19. I just realized I had a spare Ameriglo 0.180" tritium front, which I just put on. Ordered a 0.256" rear from MGW as I've managed to lose mine somewhere or other. And of course the G17/34 mags will work just fine.

Anyway, back on topic: I can't say enough about all the AIWB help that this thread has provided me in the last few weeks. Carrying this way the last few days it just makes perfect sense. I don't see me ever going back to behind the hip. I really appreciate you guys.

You do realize you could've tried one for just the cost of shipping?

[RJ]

You do realize you could've tried one for just the cost of shipping?

THanks Tom, I’ll definitely keep that in mind. Much appreciated!

[camsdaddy]

Get thee behind me Satan. :)

But yeah, you are probably right. Talk about mind blown. If I had known that I could basically get away with a G17 sized gun three years ago...that was sitting in my hands...woah. (to be fair, there's NO WAY I would be doing this without having dropped the weight.) So I have drawn back from the brink of selling my (well worn) G19. I just realized I had a spare Ameriglo 0.180" tritium front, which I just put on. Ordered a 0.256" rear from MGW as I've managed to lose mine somewhere or other. And of course the G17/34 mags will work just fine.

Anyway, back on topic: I can't say enough about all the AIWB help that this thread has provided me in the last few weeks. Carrying this way the last few days it just makes perfect sense. I don't see me ever going back to behind the hip. I really appreciate you guys.

Weight loss has been a major factor in making AIWB comfortable and concealable for me. I had a small gut and losing a few pounds has done wonders for both.

I am carrying my 26 or 19 in a JM Kydex 2.5 on an Enigma. I am considering buying a holster for my 34 since they are working so well.

[Archer1440]

Oh yes indeed, losing weight is the #1 AIWB enhancement ever devised by man. I dropped 85# from February 2018 to February 2019, and it has been a game changer in all sorts of ways. Went from a 46” chest and 44” waist to a 44” chest and a 32” waist. That helps hide all manner of hardware.

It did require an entirely new wardrobe, however.

[Clusterfrack]

Snowshoeing: 10.5mi, 2500 vertical. All-day comfort carrying a P-07 AIWB.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/a6516bc4fe1fce72a52ebd5e3713379f.jpg

[JSGlock34]

For undershirts, I've had good luck with UnderArmour. The one's below are well-made and fairly cheap. I usually wear a Columbia Tamiami fishing shirt on top to conceal.

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/under-armour-mens-tech-t-shirt-18uarmtchsstxxxxxapta

Agreed - the tech-t shirt or the UA Tactical equivalent has worked well for me. I find compression shirts uncomfortable.

[Clusterfrack]

Follow up to RJ ‘s junk carry pillow posts: Here is how mine is adjusted—below the muzzle and tilted right. This keeps the holster tucked, and muzzle away from critical areas, but also adds padding at the groin and inner thigh during movement. The pad extension serves the same purpose as a longer holster (eg P-09 length) but without the stiffness. Honestly I don’t think I could hike and climb all day without it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/94371da3a96e88db2446a2d6ddff7206.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/b3c0bb5b87bed6a977633b577c503b90.jpg

[JCN]

Follow up to RJ ‘s junk carry pillow posts: Here is how mine is adjusted—below the muzzle and tilted right. This keeps the holster tucked, and muzzle away from critical areas, but also adds padding at the groin and inner thigh during movement. Honestly I don’t think I could hike and climb all day without it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/94371da3a96e88db2446a2d6ddff7206.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/b3c0bb5b87bed6a977633b577c503b90.jpg

I know this may be overkill, but I always wondered if there would be a market for an AIWB holster with a Kevlar junk pillow holster shroud. So if you discharge in your holster it would catch it rather than destroy stuff.

[Clusterfrack]

I know this may be overkill, but I always wondered if there would be a market for an AIWB holster with a Kevlar junk pillow holster shroud. So if you discharge in your holster it would catch it rather than destroy stuff.

Destroy ‘stuff’. LOL! Interesting idea. The engineering and testing would be a fun project. The legal issues with selling it not so much.

[JCN]

Destroy ‘stuff’. LOL! Interesting idea. The engineering and testing would be a fun project. The legal issues with selling it not so much.

I think if it wasn’t advertised as some sort of armor standard... ah wait, who am I kidding, you know SOMEONE would purposely do something stupid and blame someone else. :D

When I was working on the Fawbush drill (three shots from concealed draw in one second) I was concerned enough for shooting myself that I layered soft armor on my groin down to my foot. :)

[RJ]

I spent some useful time re-reading the massive 2,000+ post AIWB thread over the last several days to compile some tips. I'm like, the last person to provide advice on AIWB, since I've been carrying that way for a whopping two weeks. But just in case it helps anyone, here's what I thought was useful, from coming at this new.

Feel free to add your own tips to it.



AIWB Tip Compilation

When you are just starting, try Mexican carry with an unloaded gun. Triple check your gun is unloaded. Stand normally. Insert the unloaded gun into your waistband. Put it low, but make sure you can get a full grip on it. Sit, walk, watch TV, do things around the house that you normally do. Put your shoes on and tie the laces. Make lunch. Work on the computer. Getting used to how the gun sits 'where it wants to' may help decide where to set it up later.


Holster slowly. Yeah this seems obvious. but when I started to do dry draws on the timer, it would go off and I'd be hell for leather making a fast draw. Then I had to consciously slow myself down holstering. Some say add a "hard break" mentally on the holster, and look the gun in.


Lean body / hips forward to holster. I had to try this one before it made sense, and it does. Just a slight push forward on your hips places the holster and gun forward away from your front.


Thumb the hammer or SCD to holster. For me, a hammer-fired gun or a Glock equipped with a Tau Industries Striker Control Device is an absolute must for AIWB.


Loosen belt slightly when driving. This seems kind of obvious, but the point here is to chose a belt with ability to vary tension by very small degrees. So far, I managed to pick a winner in the Mastermind Tactics Specialist belt. It a very simple belt with velcro and a retainer. And great value.


Pick a holster with specific AIWB features. I ended up with a used Dark Star Gear Hitchhiker, and I am very glad I bought it. Features like the Dark Wing and foam pad really help in situating the gun properly, and in comfort in resting in my inguinal crease. To assist in getting get a good starting location of where to fit the foam pad on the velcro, drop trow, place the Pad where it seems to "fit", then "attach" the empty holster to the pad, where it ends up. Remove the pad and holster, Insert the unloaded gun and then dress normally. Doing this, the foam pad will then start out near a good fit in your “gentleman” area.


Mark foam pad location with dots made by a silver sharpie. I've found this really useful, as having the silver sharpie to make alignment dots on both the foam and velcro I don't have to remember exactly where I located the foam, each time I take it off.


Thread belt with tail ‘away’ from holster. This wasn't clear to me, being a lefty. I initially threaded the belt like a right handed person, and the tongue was interfering with how the holster lay. I flipped the belt 180, so the tail ended going "away" from the buckle, and now sits at about 3 o'clock.


Wear a compression moisture wicking undershirt. I'm not sold on this yet, I don't find that I have comfort issues, since the DSG holster I got has a full sweat guard. The rear sights on my G48 are very low profile, and unstabby. I would be more concerned with Trijicon HDs, or a holster with a half or no sweat guard.





And that's it. As say, hope someone finds one or more of these helpful. I sure got a ton of info out of this thread and I really appreciate all the contributions.



Clusterfrack I bought some Poly-Fil and Sewable Velcro tape today at Joann's Fabrics. Mrs. RJ is going to grant me permission to use her sewing machine tomorrow, so I hope to make some progress on my JCP for the G48.

[Lost River]

Snowshoeing: 10.5mi, 2500 vertical. All-day comfort carrying a P-07 AIWB.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210118/a6516bc4fe1fce72a52ebd5e3713379f.jpg


Snowshoeing is serious exercise. Few things will make you sweat in the wintertime.

Unless of course you don't have snowshoes and you are post-holing through the snow trying to get somewhere, cussing to yourself, saying "Next time bring the damn snowshoes!"

[RJ]

Made quite a bit of progress today. I cut out patterns for production, Alpha and Bravo. Both A and B were to size of pattern ver 1.1. I pinned and hemmed both, and then made the bellows on each. After sewing on the velcro, I flipped Alpha out and stuffed it with Poly-fil to a fairly good degree. I pinned it and attached it in place on my G48 DSG holster:

66401

I didn't run the final closing seam because I'm on the fence on whether the size of the JCP that I ended up with is too small. I stopped sewing on Bravo because of this, but it's about 1/2 way through being done. I'll trial fit Alpha "in use" tomorrow while I decide what to do One reason it may have ended smaller than my concept was the fact I hemmed all four sides about 1/4", making the JCP smaller by quite a bit when reversed.

Still, on the plus side, sewing was not too bad, after some guidance from my patient wife. My seams are not exactly tightrope straight, that's for sure.

[RJ]

Tried various shirts over the years, but for the last ten years or so have used these:
https://amazon.com/32-DEGREES-Mens-Cool-Tee-Black-XL/dp/B07HZXPFNL/ref=sr_1_7?crid=22W4I8JNWIAET&dchild=1&keywords=cool+32+degrees+mens+tshirt&qid=1610113798&sprefix=Cool+32%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-7

Often available at Costco in 3 packs, can also be found on Amazon in multi packs sometimes. Started using them under my armor, and gradually morphed into year round wear, even in summer, under a polo or a camp shirt.

My order of four black size L arrived today. I am mighty impressed. Size wise, they are a good fit for me, and very similar at the rib as my other Size L "Jerzees" T-shirt. (I'm 5'6", weigh 185 and wear 32" shorts.) This picture shows a Nike XL Dri-Fit Performance in Orange, under my Lime Green Size L Jerzee, under the black size L Cool 32 degrees T-shirt:

66403

The fabric is super soft and just-right stretchy. I grabbed one out of the pack and have it on right now. The label says "Made in Vietnam."

It is not a "compression" fit by any means. But what I wanted out of this was an undershirt I could wear while taking a class, or at an event where I was shooting a lot. One of the things that bugged me in doing draws on the timer was how raw I rubbed my sensitive belly area when drawing at speed. I don't think it would bug me in an emergency, but I don't want to be doing that in a 2 day class where I'm AIWB (like, a Gabe Class, if I ended up taking again.)

So far, at 4 shirts for $20, these seem to be a fantastic deal.

Thanks again for the tip!!

[RJ]

Quick test fit with the 32 Degree Size L T shirt under a Macy's Size XL Polo and the Alpha JCP pinned closed:

66406

Interesting. Comfort is better than with the foam pad. I put quite a bit of poly-fil in, but it seems to squish down a bit. There is more "give" with the JCP and sitting comfort is good, better in fact. I took Clusterfrack's suggestion and moved the JCP down a bit so if folds "under' the holster just a bit.

On the whole size thing, it actually seems to work as is now, though it looks small. I may go ahead and finish Bravo to the current spec and make a Charlie tomorrow, taking into account all I learned today.

[RJ]

I may go ahead and finish Bravo to the current spec and make a Charlie tomorrow, taking into account all I learned today.

Ok so I rewickered the pattern to a "2.0" version today. I opened up the size by 1/2", and removed the hem lines down the side. This simplifies construction, since you only have to hem the tops on each end. Since the JCP folds from wrong side out anyways, the side hem is needless.

66447

I cut a Charlie prototype and sewed it up. I found an easy way to stitch the "ears" of the bellows was to fold the cloth over and mark the triangles with silver sharpie, using the pattern. This ended up being much easier.

Here's the Charlie version, after sewing, but before flipping it inside out. It's top down, and bottom up, in this picture.

66448

Here is the older JCP Alpha (on left) and today's Charlie (on right), shown next to my DSG Holster with the OEM Foam Pad. Note that opening up the pattern and removing the side hem enlarged Charlie a bit, which was the intent. I have the tops pinned, just to fiddle with amount of poly-fil to get the right stiffness. I'll sew up the top hem tomorrow once I'm happy.

66449

Many thanks to Clusterfrack for this awesome idea. I really appreciate it.

[Clusterfrack]

Looking good @RJ. I taper the top half of my JCPs inward to narrow the mouth area. Otherwise, you get flappy flaps that can bunch up or get sweaty.


Ok so I rewickered the pattern to a "2.0" version today. I opened up the size by 1/2", and removed the hem lines down the side. This simplifies construction, since you only have to hem the tops on each end. Since the JCP folds from wrong side out anyways, the side hem is needless.

66447

I cut a Charlie prototype and sewed it up. I found an easy way to stitch the "ears" of the bellows was to fold the cloth over and mark the triangles with silver sharpie, using the pattern. This ended up being much easier.

Here's the Charlie version, after sewing, but before flipping it inside out. It's top down, and bottom up, in this picture.

66448

Here is the older JCP Alpha (on left) and today's Charlie (on right), shown next to my DSG Holster with the OEM Foam Pad. Note that opening up the pattern and removing the side hem enlarged Charlie a bit, which was the intent. I have the tops pinned, just to fiddle with amount of poly-fil to get the right stiffness. I'll sew up the top hem tomorrow once I'm happy.

66449

Many thanks to Clusterfrack for this awesome idea. I really appreciate it.

[RJ]

Looking good @RJ. I taper the top half of my JCPs inward to narrow the mouth area. Otherwise, you get flappy flaps that can bunch up or get sweaty.

Thanks...funny I was just sitting here starting at the ears on Charlie, I and thinking about adding a sew line on the pattern from the ears to the mouth to do that. I can see exactly what you mean. I may unstuff Charlie and sew a tighter line, then re-fill. I'll also tweak the pattern. Good comment.

[RJ]

Thanks...funny I was just sitting here starting at the ears on Charlie, I and thinking about adding a sew line on the pattern from the ears to the mouth to do that. I can see exactly what you mean. I may unstuff Charlie and sew a tighter line, then re-fill. I'll also tweak the pattern. Good comment.

Pattern v 2.1 incorporating a sew line angled from the "bellows" to the top, to narrow the JCP width at the upper end.

66451

[RJ]

Kinda related to this topic, one of the things that hang me up slightly on putting on my holster is the PTD loops. The snap as it comes is quite stiff to get attached, and requires a bit of wearing in.

I found that a light application of some Flitz metal polish on a patch takes the edge off the snaps, so they are much much easier to connect up. I followed the Flitz by cleaning and then a wipe with some Slip 2000 EWL. Much much happer with the process of holstering up now.

66602

[Crashpad]

RJ, you won't see them until probably March or so in the stores. They carry long sleeve t-shirts and long under wear by the same manufacturer but it's a totally different knit and/or materials.

From the manufacturer's website:

https://www.32degrees.com/products/mens-cool-crew-neck-tee-shirt?collection=cool&variant=3015431323688

Cheaper than Amazon.

Thank you for the link to these. I've used various brands over the years and am always looking for new options, especially at a good price. I ordered half a dozen and wore one as an undershirt under a regular tshirt and a wind shell on a ten mile trail run yesterday. The shirt was comfortable and I like the fit.

[camsdaddy]

Kinda related to this topic, one of the things that hang me up slightly on putting on my holster is the PTD loops. The snap as it comes is quite stiff to get attached, and requires a bit of wearing in.

I found that a light application of some Flitz metal polish on a patch takes the edge off the snaps, so they are much much easier to connect up. I followed the Flitz by cleaning and then a wipe with some Slip 2000 EWL. Much much happer with the process of holstering up now.

66602

The is good idea. Thanks for the helpful hint or in our world the lifehack.

[Irelander]

Pattern v 2.1 incorporating a sew line angled from the "bellows" to the top, to narrow the JCP width at the upper end.

66451

Dude! You rock! I've got to try this out.
Thank you very glad!

[littlejerry]

Kinda related to this topic, one of the things that hang me up slightly on putting on my holster is the PTD loops. The snap as it comes is quite stiff to get attached, and requires a bit of wearing in.

I found that a light application of some Flitz metal polish on a patch takes the edge off the snaps, so they are much much easier to connect up. I followed the Flitz by cleaning and then a wipe with some Slip 2000 EWL. Much much happer with the process of holstering up now.

66602

Not sure if you've noticed, but your holster is backwards. I imagine the loops are easier to snap when they are on the right side of the holster.

[RJ]

Not sure if you've noticed, but your holster is backwards. I imagine the loops are easier to snap when they are on the right side of the holster.

Huh? I don't understand.

[GAP]

Huh? I don't understand.

Insecure righties try to poke fun at lefties because they are threatened by our superior human capabilities.

[RJ]

Insecure righties try to poke fun at lefties because they are threatened by our superior human capabilities.

Ah! Went right over my head.


Dude! You rock! I've got to try this out.
Thank you very glad!

You are most welcome!


Quick update: I've decided that stuffing to 12g total weight is a bit "fat" and 8g is a bit "skinny" so I'm in the process of ripping the seams out of one of my prototypes to weight it to 10g, hopefully that will be the "just right" total weight for me.

Still loving AIWB and in particular this concept of the JCP, it is really cool.

[Irelander]

Dude! You rock! I've got to try this out.
Thank you very glad!

I forgot to mention Clusterfrack. This idea is genius!

[RJ]

I forgot to mention Clusterfrack. This idea is genius!

Absolutely! It's a fantastic idea, for sure.


Quick update on progress: I seam-ripped trial unit number Echo and pulled out enough Poly-fil to make it 10 grams, overall weight. Then stitched it up. I think this weight seems to be about right for a compact JCP. It has sufficient springiness to the pillow but doesn't stand the muzzle end off too much. If were making one again, I'd get a scale and weigh it to 10 grams, as a starting point.

[RJ]

Gee I really wish there was a JCP Pattern for "Full Size" holsters...




'Ere ya go:

66764

With the proviso I've not made one this size, this is simply a slightly scaled up version of the compact. It's 11" which is as big a piece of convenient paper, not the 12" which Clusterfrack started with. Obviously once you "get it" about how to sew these you just need a fabric so long by so wide.

It should end up slightly bigger than the compact, but not by a huge amount. I also tidied up some other errors and corrected some of the colors in the drawing.

[RJ]

So I’ve been carrying the G48 AIWB in a DSG Hitchhiker w Dark Wing and JCP pretty well for a few weeks. The only thing that’s a bit of a PITA are the PTD loops. They are a bit fiddly to get past the pants, under the belt and snapped each time.

Have any of you guys used the DCC clips? Was thinking of ordering a couple of these ones from Tom to try out:

https://darkstargear.com/product/dcc-m4u-15/

[Up1911Fan]

So I’ve been carrying the G48 AIWB in a DSG Hitchhiker w Dark Wing and JCP pretty well for a few weeks. The only thing that’s a bit of a PITA are the PTD loops. They are a bit fiddly to get past the pants, under the belt and snapped each time.

Have any of you guys used the DCC clips? Was thinking of ordering a couple of these ones from Tom to try out:

https://darkstargear.com/product/dcc-m4u-15/
I use DCC clips on pretty much everything now. Totally worth it.

[Clusterfrack]

@RJ, I have a DCC Monoblock clip on my LCR holster. This works great for clipping a relatively small and light gun directly to the pants, with the belt on top. I do not like the DCC clips over a belt. They are sharp, and catch on things.

I've tried pretty much every type of loop or clip, and the PTD snap loops are what I've settled on. They give some lateral adjustability around various belt loops. The snap loops are soft and stay put when I take my live gun out and grapple with a blue gun.

Also, there have been a couple of times when (for reasons) I had to take my gun & holster off quickly and stow it. The snap loops are excellent for that.

[Caballoflaco]

RJ make sure your belt isn’t too tight while you are putting on the holster, then snug everything down after you’re snapped in/on.

[RJ]

Thanks all. I discovered a spare steel clip in the Box o’ Holsters:

67352

Putting it on is simpler. Did some dry draws, the lower profile of the steel helps me get a much better index on the draw. I’m going to try this out for a few days. Appreciate the inputs.

[Clusterfrack]

...the lower profile of the steel helps me get a much better index on the draw.

So your fingers were hitting the free ends of the PDT loop straps? That happened to me as well, so I cut them off. I also trimmed material above one edge of the grip-side snap.

[Willard]

I've tried several options. Hands down (for me) Keeper's Concealment Keeper. There are other models, but this one was the best I have experienced (this was with a full size B92). I've AIWB'd other holsters with much lighter polymer pistols without the same level of comfort.

[RJ]

So your fingers were hitting the free ends of the PDT loop straps? That happened to me as well, so I cut them off. I also trimmed material above one edge of the grip-side snap.

Yeah, I did all that as well. The steel just seems to allow me a better index on the draw, being as it’s flat I guess. Anyway I’ll try it for a while, maybe do some work on the timer with the blue gun.

[Elwin]

I’m a DCC convert, which is a full 180 from when they came out and I was like “meh, no advantage over PTDs.”

Even with a 38oz gun, I find that a single DCC over the trigger guard is sufficiently secure, gives just enough play to adjust to what I’m doing (sitting, standing, crouching, etc.), is super low profile, and is quick and easy on/off once you’re used to it. For me, PTDs can be the thing that’s still printing even after I have the gun itself well hidden, and if it’s two of them vs one DCC, on/off is slower.

Like everything else, it’s very specific to each person and YMMV, but I’m set on these until some new dark magic comes along.

RJ, I think I posted a pic either here or in another thread in response to a question of yours about mag carriers that shows my current setup.

[JAD]

Clips allow the gun to walk too much for me, except with G43s and j frames. Ptd helps with that and still allows me to easily remove the gun. Fixed loops on either side of the belt loop are best, but a pain to thread. I don’t know why clips aren’t paired with a strut or something, but there’s probably a reason.

[RJ]

For me, PTDs can be the thing that’s still printing even after I have the gun itself well hidden, and if it’s two of them vs one DCC, on/off is slower.



That’s a great point, another plus for the flat steel clip, about printing less than the PTD. My wife had trouble seeing any sign of my rig as I showed it to her, and she knows where to look. Definitely an individual thing tho.

[RJ]

I’m evaluating another comfort AIWB mod this week. Member JCN suggested in my TJ a pad or wedge at the upper inside of the sweatguard of the holster.

It occurred to me I could mount a Melody Lauer Holster Hack (Dr. Scholl’s Women’s Gel pad, size M) heel side up, just below the Kydex of my DSG Hitchhiker.

68625

This might look a little odd, but in practice I find it adds quite a bit in comfort. Primarily the Kydex is no longer digging in quite so much when I sit down as the load is distributed via the gel. The pad ‘offsets’ the gun slightly, offering a little room for my strong hand, so there is less risk of grabbing skin on the draw or holster. Finally, the curve of the pad provides a resting place for my thumb on the draw, leading to a much more positive index.



I’ve done some timings and I’m seeing concealed draws to a press using my AMG timer consistently 1.4 - 1.5s, very good for me.

[JCN]

RJ looking at your rig, I wonder if the junk pillow isn’t causing some of the upper hotspot... that then requires a wedge...

A hybrid holster basically has integrated junk pillow and wedge.

My current carry setup:

68627
68628
68629
68630

I also personally prefer really short slide carry guns to reduce junk poking. But get around that with higher ride heights if I carry things longer than my P365.

[orionz06]

RJ looking at your rig, I wonder if the junk pillow isn’t causing some of the upper hotspot... that then requires a wedge...



Yeah, I kinda wonder if the over-wedging is the issue. I don't recall how it worked without either pad, but now that the holster is at least 1/4" thicker all around, trying it on its own may be worth the effort.

[RJ]

Yeah, I kinda wonder if the over-wedging is the issue. I don't recall how it worked without either pad, but now that the holster is at least 1/4" thicker all around, trying it on its own may be worth the effort.

Could be, idk. For sure it’s an ongoing experiment in adjustment and fit, and complicated by recent (and continuing) weight loss chiefly around my middle. I expect to revisit this periodically, I’ll try without the JCP. I will say the JCP’s particular location in relation to my ah, gentleman region, is very comfortable. The ‘pressing’ inward is not such a huge issue for me. What makes a big difference is the fact there’s now a gap between the Kydex and my naked mole rat belly area in the specific point of the butt end of the grip.

This shows how my thumb curls exactly over the pad, leading to vastly improved index, with my forefinger straight out on the metal clip.

68634
.

[Caballoflaco]

Could be, idk. For sure it’s an ongoing experiment in adjustment and fit, and complicated by recent (and continuing) weight loss chiefly around my middle. I expect to revisit this periodically, I’ll try without the JCP. I will say the JCP’s particular location in relation to my ah, gentleman region, is very comfortable. The ‘pressing’ inward is not such a huge issue for me. What makes a big difference is the fact there’s now a gap between the Kydex and my naked mole rat belly area in the specific point of the butt end of the grip.

This shows how my thumb curls exactly over the pad, leading to vastly improved index, with my forefinger straight out on the metal clip.

68634
.

RJ just throwing this out there as something to think about. With all the stuff added to your holster you’ve created a system that’s thicker than a double stack glock. Also a few pieces of adhesive moleskin can increase comfort without adding noticeably to the thickness of the gun/holster combo.

[Archer1440]

I used fuzzy industrial adhesive Velcro and a small mid-durometer foam wedge to solve the minor hotspot I got with my PHLster Floodlight after 10-14 hours or so of wear.

A very small, cut-down foam wedge in just the right spot makes a big difference. It’s 1/2” tall at the high end. I cover the foam with a bit of 100-mph tape to allow it to slide along undergarments when putting the rig on.

There’s a full-size VP9 with a PMM comp and an X300 in this holster, it hides completely and is quite comfortable for a 16 hour day. The DCC Mod4 clips gives me a very solid system when using a Nexbelt AIWB specific belt. I can get away with true sizing on the trousers rather than +2 with this rig as well.

The DCC clips are excellent in terms of function and security. They’re easy to put on and provide for a positive “click” once on the belt, and are not much more difficult to remove than PTD loops, but far more secure against movement.

[Irelander]

RJ looking at your rig, I wonder if the junk pillow isn’t causing some of the upper hotspot... that then requires a wedge...

A hybrid holster basically has integrated junk pillow and wedge.

My current carry setup:

68627
68628
68629
68630

I also personally prefer really short slide carry guns to reduce junk poking. But get around that with higher ride heights if I carry things longer than my P365.

Could you please share the make of that holster? I'm interested.

[JCN]

Could you please share the make of that holster? I'm interested.

https://hiddenhybridholsters.com/

They're my favorite. They're a little spendier than they used to be, but the fit and finish is meticulous.
They have an option for an optic shroud (seen on my holster). I'm not sure that part is worth what they're upcharging, I've modified previous holsters of theirs with a BIC lighter and Dremel cut off tool to make room for optics.

Crossbreed makes a less expensive hybrid holster, but I think the leather is tougher.
N82 tactical makes something similar with a nice, soft pad but I don't like their twist retention system.

[Kirk]

Yeah, I kinda wonder if the over-wedging is the issue. I don't recall how it worked without either pad, but now that the holster is at least 1/4" thicker all around, trying it on its own may be worth the effort.

Yep, it looks like it could be some over-wedge there. That junk pillow is massive lol.

I still think your wedge is by far the best. I even have one on a larger fixed blade.

[Clusterfrack]

@RJ, The reason don't use a flap in my JCP, and why I add the vertical stitching is to keep the upper part of the pillow as thin as possible. I also install my pillows quite low on the holster, leaving the top bare.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210210/10cbe5b63261ade7b211b7ee31d40159.jpg

[RJ]

Yep, it looks like it could be some over-wedge there. That junk pillow is massive lol.

I still think your wedge is by far the best. I even have one on a larger fixed blade.


@RJ, The reason don't use a flap in my JCP, and why I add the vertical stitching is to keep the upper part of the pillow as thin as possible. I also install my pillows quite low on the holster, leaving the top bare.



Yeah, it's hard for me to explain exactly how "squishy" all this actually ends up being. My JCP is filled with so little polyfil, the whole things only weight 10 grams. It looks larger, sitting uncompressed, because the polyfil has so much loft.

I can't exactly show you, so I just did a little experiment with my carry gun in it's DSG holster with, and without the JCP/Dr. Sholl's pad. Using a consistent reference point (front of the Dark Wing) to measure to, I pressed the gun down on the desktop with force similar to when I cinch my my carry gun, which is not a lot.

Measurement, holster only: 19mm
Measurement, holster with JCP and Gel Pad: 22 mm

So the net "add", in apparent thickness of my JCP and gel pad, when I actually wear it, is 3mm, or about 0.1". This is why adding these two items are no big deal, and totally worth it in terms of comfort "below" (JCP) and adding the gel pad to index to (above).

ETA: Certainly in the interests of fair evaluation, I'll give all four combinations a shot in daily carry and dry practice the next few days and report back: Holster with no attachments, add JCP (only), add Gel pad (only), and add JCP and Gel pad. Back in a while.

[RJ]

ETA: Certainly in the interests of fair evaluation, I'll give all four combinations a shot in daily carry and dry practice the next few days and report back: Holster with no attachments, add JCP (only), add Gel pad (only), and add JCP and Gel pad. Back in a while.

Carried last two days in various modes. Did about 15 minutes of dry draws with my blue gun and AMG timer just now to confirm.

And the results are in...

- No pad, no JCP: Immediate sensation of digging in of hard kydex in my gentleman region. Upper end of kydex interior sweatguard is pressed in to stomach, no space for indexing thumb. Index generally poor, draw to draw. Lowest comfort.

- Add JCP, only: Much more comfort down below. Lower end of Kydex is now cushioned by JCP, which curls under bottom of holster. Seated comfort improved.

- Add Gel Pad, only: Inner sweatguard feels "springier" against stomach, especially seated. Added space affords faster and more precise index, especially for thumb. Added space allows a bit more room for strong hand support fingers to wrap around grip, allowing three index points (index finger on steel clip, thumb wrapping over gel pad, support fingers wrapping around grip) consistently, every draw.

- Add JCP and Gel Pad: All of the above. Easily the most comfortable setup, and the most positively indexed draws. Winner by a mile.

[RJ]

I recently had an ongoing discussion in my TJ regarding additional AIWB comfort options I wanted to add to this thread.

One option was the use of sleeveless T-shirts, to use under a larger shirt. In particular, these ones by Hanes:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WGCRYC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since I am now in Size L T-shirts, I ordered a set of four in size L. They came, and I put one on to try it out. It was skin tight; I mean, skin, tight. How tight? Well, if it had been striped, I could have applied for a spot on the roster of an Australian Rules Football team. That tight.

I did try it, underneath an old XL Polo I had. I did not like it at all (I've never been an undershirt guy.) So this didn't work real well for me.


I then moved to try something called a Band-Aid Hydro Seal, all in one size, Extra Large (2.4" x 2.7"). This is basically a sticky band-aid that has a gel-type bandage for wound covering, that's purported to be water proof. The idea was to use it as a cushion for any areas of skin irritation.

https://www.amazon.com/Band-Aid-Waterproof-Adhesive-Bandages-Blisters/dp/B077TN7L3R/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=bandaid+hydroseal+extra+large&qid=1615570277&sr=8-2

I found a couple boxes of 3 at Target, for $4 each:

68730

I shaved in the general area, and then did another set of dry draws using my timer, so I could see where the biggest hot spot was in my draw. I then marked the area with a sharpie, and stuck the Hydro Seal in place, covering the sharpie.

I was surprised where it ended up, because I thought it would be behind the sweatguard. But no; for me, it was the area immediately behind where my strong hand fingers curled around the grip, as in, right under the grip, basically. This causes me some pain both on the draw, and on reholster. If I draw/reholster a lot, in succession (like, in a class), it really does bug me.

After I stuck the bandage on, I did another bunch of dry draws, at speed, and noticed an immediate absence of my skin being abraded by my fingers.

Bottom line I will keep this on for a bit over the next few days, but I think this seems to be the best option, "for me", to add a bit of AIWB comfort.

I am attending the Rangemaster Tactical Conference in Dallas week after next, and have shooting classes daily, plus the Polite Society Shooting Match. I now plan to wear this gel band aid as part of my EDC for that training. I don't think I'd necessarily carry on a daily basis with it stuck to my tummy, but for where you are going to expect to draw a lot (like, a class) I think this is a decent solution.

Thanks again for the suggestions, JCN and NoTacTravis.

[Caballoflaco]

RJ if you run out of bandaids or want to try something different some kinesiology tape grips extremely well and provides good abrasion resistance too.

It’s what I’ve used on my nose for protection when I couldn’t fix an archery form problem and was occasionally hitting my nose with the bowstring upon release.(that’ll give you the flinchies)

[RJ]

RJ just throwing this out there as something to think about. With all the stuff added to your holster you’ve created a system that’s thicker than a double stack glock. Also a few pieces of adhesive moleskin can increase comfort without adding noticeably to the thickness of the gun/holster combo.

Bro seriously, there's like no way I'd try that. I mean, not in a million years. I've given up on double stack Glocks...I mean, how would it even fit down my pants?

:cool:

68739

[JCN]

I stuffed a Shadow 2 with a weapon light AIWB at the last match. :D