RDS choices for M&P Compact 4" optics-ready

[maximus83]

I have an M&P M2.0 Compact 4" optic-ready (SKU: 13143) inbound--these were recently released. Totally new to RDS on pistols, but tried a Venom on my 22/45, liked it. Next step is to try it on an M&P Compact.

What would be the handful of top options for RDS on a compact carry M&P?

* RMR (what about the new "RMR cc")?
* DPP
* Romeo 1 Pro?
* Other?

Also, does anybody have suggestions on M&P sights to go with RDS? I like the Trijicon HD XR, but don't know if they have anything that tall. I can live with the factory sights if needed, I actually like the factory sights fairly well on the M&P's.

[GJM]

I have an M&P M2.0 Compact 4" optic-ready (SKU: 13143) inbound--these were recently released. Totally new to RDS on pistols, but tried a Venom on my 22/45, liked it. Next step is to try it on an M&P Compact.

What would be the handful of top options for RDS on a compact carry M&P?

* RMR (what about the new "RMR cc")?
* DPP
* Romeo 1 Pro?
* Other?

Also, does anybody have suggestions on M&P sights to go with RDS? I like the Trijicon HD XR, but don't know if they have anything that tall. I can live with the factory sights if needed, I actually like the factory sights fairly well on the M&P's.

An RMR is the safe choice. Holosun 507 would probably be fine.

I would not go with a DP Pro or Romeo 1 Pro over the RMR/Holosun for reasons. RMRcc’s small size offers no advantage.

If you can get a plate that works, I am really liking the Holosun 509T. The SRO is another option.

[ranger]

I have SRO on my 5 inch M&P and really like it - I should have a M&P 2.0 Core full size soon and I am thinking SRO again.

[maximus83]

Was about to hit submit on a 6 MOA RMR, then saw the SRO in a 'related items' list. I like the look of the larger FOV.

I wonder if the SRO is a bit more 'fragile' than RMR, for carry purposes? It doesn't look from the pics like the supporting frame is quite as beefy. ETA also it looks like it sits up a bit higher, which would affect the carry height for me. Found a page with an Aaron C video (https://gatdaily.com/so-is-the-trijicon-sro-designed-for-duty-use/)showing a drop that breaks SRO, and mentions it's not recommended for 'duty' role, and says he wouldn't personally use it for cc.

[maximus83]

Ok thanks for input, ordered the RMR 6.5 MOA. The M&P optic mount kit apparently has polymer adapters, so I'll need to update eventually to these options. Feedback/input on any of these is welcome.

* M&P M2.0 RMR adapter (the 1.0 and 2.0 adapter sizes are different): https://chpws.com/product/sw-core-2-0-1-975
* Sights options if I upgrade the OEM: Trijicon (https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/sa240-c-601011), Dawson (https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-s-w-m-p-fixed-carry-sight-set-suppressor-height-black-rear-fiber-optic-front/) (not 100% if the Dawson would work, need to call them)

[GJM]

Ok thanks for input, ordered the RMR 6.5 MOA. The M&P optic mount kit apparently has polymer adapters, so I'll need to update eventually to these options. Feedback/input on any of these is welcome.

* M&P M2.0 RMR adapter (the 1.0 and 2.0 adapter sizes are different): https://chpws.com/product/sw-core-2-0-1-975
* Sights options if I upgrade the OEM: Trijicon (https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/sa240-c-601011), Dawson (https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-s-w-m-p-fixed-carry-sight-set-suppressor-height-black-rear-fiber-optic-front/) (not 100% if the Dawson would work, need to call them)

https://chpws.com/product/sw-core-2-0-1-975

[MD7305]

I received my M2.0 optics-compact today. I mounted a Holosun 507c on it for now but I'm thinking of trying an SRO if I can find a deal on one during the upcoming holiday sales. In reference to the plastic optics plates, they may be fine but they seem overly big and hang over the slide so I also plan to get one of the CHPWS plates whenever they come back in stock. I'm looking forward to this pistol.
62961

[BigT]

I may sound like a stuck record, but I have yet to find a pistol optic that works as well as the Holosun 407CO with the 8moa ring

[ranger]

I may try the 509T if adapter plate becomes available

[JM Campbell]

I may try the 509T if adapter plate becomes available

I am very interested in the 509T just need some mounting plates to be designed/made from those cool #BOOM (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=BOOM) guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

I just bought another 509T yesterday.

[Erick Gelhaus]

I just bought another 509T yesterday.

Absent battery life considerations, thoughts on it in comparison to the Acro?

I'm interested but have concerns about the foot print.

[GJM]

Absent battery life considerations, thoughts on it in comparison to the Acro?

I'm interested but have concerns about the foot print.

I love aimpoint products but assuming the 509T turns out to be reliable, I think it is a substantially better pistol product. Smaller footprint, bigger display, longer battery life, reticle choices.

[maximus83]

Called Dawson, this is the right FO sight set for M&P core with RMR: https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-s-w-m-p-core-fixed-co-witness-carry-sight-set-black-rear-fiber-optic-front/

[ranger]

Was about to hit submit on a 6 MOA RMR, then saw the SRO in a 'related items' list. I like the look of the larger FOV.

I wonder if the SRO is a bit more 'fragile' than RMR, for carry purposes? It doesn't look from the pics like the supporting frame is quite as beefy. ETA also it looks like it sits up a bit higher, which would affect the carry height for me. Found a page with an Aaron C video (https://gatdaily.com/so-is-the-trijicon-sro-designed-for-duty-use/)showing a drop that breaks SRO, and mentions it's not recommended for 'duty' role, and says he wouldn't personally use it for cc.

I would happily carry a SRO. Can it get broken - sure. Risk vs reward. Not jumping out of airplanes anymore.

[maximus83]

I would happily carry a SRO. Can it get broken - sure. Risk vs reward. Not jumping out of airplanes anymore.

Thanks. Is the main difference/appeal of it the large FOV?

[maximus83]

So here's what I got, Midway had both:
- RMRcc (https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-rmrcc) 6.5 moa
- RMRcc adapter plate (https://www.trijicon.com/products/details/ac32104) for M&P Core optic-ready pistols (the new 4" M2 compact is compatible with the Core cut-outs)

Trijicon says the main differences in the RMRcc are slimmer lower profile (also fits single-stack carry guns incl. Sig P365, Shield, 1911, etc.), and lets you lock your brightness levels so you don't have to manually keep resetting. Main reason I wanted the cc is for low-pro carry and because this sight could eventually get switched to my 1911.

[MD7305]

Called Dawson, this is the right FO sight set for M&P core with RMR: https://dawsonprecision.com/dawson-precision-s-w-m-p-core-fixed-co-witness-carry-sight-set-black-rear-fiber-optic-front/

I had these on my full-size CORE, they'll give you a lower 1/3 co-witness using an RMR or Holosun 407/507.

[ranger]

Thanks. Is the main difference/appeal of it the large FOV?

I am trading shoot ability - FOV - for armored durability

[maximus83]

I am trading shoot ability - FOV - for armored durability

Makes sense. I haven't shot with one or even held one in person, but saw a few side-by-side pics with RMR, yeah that's a massively larger FOV and I see the appeal.

[GJM]

In terms of durability, there is reliability with high round counts, and durability when dropping the optic on large rocks. I am yet to break a single SRO, and have been using them as primary since they came out. I have dropped them, but not onto large rocks. I have broken more than a handful of RMR optics, type 1 and 2, and have a 2 on the way back from Trijicon right now.

Based on my experience, I think the SRO is tougher than a RMR over high round counts. I do think auto intensity works better on the RMR than the SRO.

[maximus83]

Follow-up Q for the RMR users. My new RMR came in, when you hold it up to a bright light source, the rear of the lens looks like it has some kind of residue or maybe small pitting or scratches on it. Call Trijicon, they said clean with Qtips and eyeglass cleaner + microfiber, did that, no change.

Has anyone else seen that with RMR's? Doesn't look normal for any optic I've seen, and doesn't clean off easily. Thinking I should just return (which is no problem where I got it).

[maximus83]

Based on my experience, I think the SRO is tougher than a RMR over high round counts. I do think auto intensity works better on the RMR than the SRO.

Good info, I should have the opportunity to swap given I'm returning the RMR. Maybe I'll give SRO a try instead.

[DaBigBR]

Follow-up Q for the RMR users. My new RMR came in, when you hold it up to a bright light source, the rear of the lens looks like it has some kind of residue or maybe small pitting or scratches on it. Call Trijicon, they said clean with Qtips and eyeglass cleaner + microfiber, did that, no change.

Has anyone else seen that with RMR's? Doesn't look normal for any optic I've seen, and doesn't clean off easily. Thinking I should just return (which is no problem where I got it).

I can't say that I have. Most people complain about the slight tint (which never bothered me. Could you post photos?

[maximus83]

I can't say that I have. Most people complain about the slight tint (which never bothered me. Could you post photos?

It's returned already. Had a couple folks look at it with me, everyone agreed there was some kind of pitting on the inside surface of the lens.

[DaBigBR]

Probably the best course of action. Sometimes I think guys spend a lot of time trying to fix something they should just return, exchange, or have fixed.

[maximus83]

Have an SRO inbound to try. Gotta' love Eurooptic, but I spend too much whenever I'm there. :p

[SoCalDep]

Have an SRO inbound to try. Gotta' love Eurooptic, but I spend too much whenever I'm there. :p

You’re about to get spoiled there buddy...

The SRO rocks. I’d carry one on duty... and that’s after dropping one on purpose three times on concrete. It had no damage from the three foot drop, cracked a bunch on the four foot but held zero and still useable, and the five foot drop didn’t really do any more damage. It held zero and did a 30 click box test after each drop. Better performance than the Leupold DPP in that respect. In fact, in regards to the whole 3,4, and 5 foot test it beat out the Holosun HE509T... sorta. though I’m a bigger fan of the 509T for duty use overall.

My two personal SROs have been awesome. I have a 2.5 MOA and a 1.0 MOA. The big window is great and I love the top load battery even though it’s a little bit of a pain to change it. My recommendation is to get Duracell batteries and get rid of the Energizer that comes with the SRO. The Duracell’s will last longer.

My department (with a little input from me) approved the SRO for duty and we have several guys using them. Until I got a 509T, the ACRO would have been my duty choice (for me...) but the SRO is right behind and it’s on my main teaching/training gun.

We also did authorize the Holosuns and new version DPP after testing so I have the option of RMR, SRO, Aimpoint ACRO, Sig Romeo 1 Pro, Leupold DPP, and the Holosun line. They all work in my experience, and they all have advantages and disadvantages.

[maximus83]

^Great info from duty/real-world use. Thx for posting.

[GJM]

In the spirit of no free lunch, see my thread on the SRO with a low sun angle. I am going RMR and Acro for now on my Compact, but really want a 509T when the Boom squad releases their plate in the near future.

[maximus83]

^So...that is a bummer as I have my SRO inbound.

Is the issue with the "false dot in low-angle sunlight" universal, or limited to certain SRO's? Is it a total show-stopper, as in return mine and swap out for an RMR?

[SoCalDep]

The low sun angle issue can affect most optics. I have no experience with the Sig Romeo 3 or C-More, but a fair amount with the RMR, SRO, Leupold DeltaPoint Pro, ACRO, and a bunch of Holosun optics.

All of them have the issue to one extent or another. Since the optic window is essentially a wavelength specific mirror designed to reflect the reticle color, if light enters the window and reflects off the red emitter or emitter window, false (phantom) dots can appear. To me, the ACRO is best at defeating this and the Holosun 509T isn't bad. The Leupold DPP is the worst and the SRO is not as bad as the DPP but worse than the ACRO, RMRs, and Holosuns. Oddly enough, my Holosun 508T-GR reflects red phantom dots while the actual reticle is green, so that's cool. Also, the ability of the Holosun to switch reticles when low sun might be encountered is a cool thing, because the phantom dots won't be confused with the circle-dot.

The low sun angle issue is certainly not a dealbreaker and can be mitigated with training and understanding of what is happening, when, and why. As I mentioned, I'd run an SRO on duty without hesitation and have used it in every lighting condition from daybreak to sunset and in darkness, in conjunction with a weapon light and a hand-held light and it's my favorite shooting optic. If it weren't for my fondness for enclosed emitters for duty use it would be my clear-cut #1. Every optic has its advantages and disadvantages and the SRO is still a beast with a lot going for it.

Get your dot... shoot it. Enjoy it. Learn about it. You'll be buying more soon.

[maximus83]

SRO came in today, love the clarity of the 5 moa dot and FOV.

A newbie Q: The SRO is right up to the edge of the ejection port. Is that likely to cause a problem?


https://i.imgur.com/wp2Thsm.jpg

[SoCalDep]

SRO came in today, love the clarity of the 5 moa dot and FOV.

A newbie Q: The SRO is right up to the edge of the ejection port. Is that likely to cause a problem?


https://i.imgur.com/wp2Thsm.jpg

Nope... 10,000 rounds at an impossible one-person pace and a a dozen or so thousand through other samples says it will grow a carbon beard at the bottom of it but it will not cause a problem.

Most of those rounds were on M&P 2.0 COREs.

[GJM]

Nope... 10,000 rounds at an impossible one-person pace and a a dozen or so thousand through other samples says it will grow a carbon beard at the bottom of it but it will not cause a problem.

Most of those rounds were on M&P 2.0 COREs.

I hate to be Debbie Downer. Until Saturday, I would have agreed with you, but part way through a match, I had a stoppage, which I cleared and moved on from. Here is a screenshot from the stage video.

63704

[GJM]

In case the resolution isn’t good enough to see, the case is wedged under the snorkel of the SRO. Five inch CORE, OEM RSA and Federal Syntech 150.

[ranger]

I do not think you guys should keep those SROs - killed in the streets and all. I will take any orphaned SROs and provide good homes - think of it as "green" as I repurpose those optics.

[SoCalDep]

I hate to be Debbie Downer. Until Saturday, I would have agreed with you, but part way through a match, I had a stoppage, which I cleared and moved on from. Here is a screenshot from the stage video.

63704

My experience is that our formal (witnessed by multiple people and documented) 10,000 round test, coupled with multiple instructor’s 8.5 months and in some cases more of training over thousands to tens of thousands of rounds each to the dozens of end-users who each shoot over 1,200 rounds in the pistol optic certification course with COREs and many of them the 5” model, and that is the first malfunction I’ve seen with an SRO- and being that the casing was primarily stuck in the ejection port (there is insufficient room for the casing to wedge under the optic unless it’s still in the ejection port) and the fact that the casing is clearly above the extractor rather than being ejected normally all lead me to wonder if the ammo has something to do with the lack of slide velocity. Are malfunctions possible? Yes. Are they, as the question asked, “likely”? I am totally confident that my answer remains “nope”.

[GJM]

My experience is that our formal (witnessed by multiple people and documented) 10,000 round test, coupled with multiple instructor’s 8.5 months and in some cases more of training over thousands to tens of thousands of rounds each to the dozens of end-users who each shoot over 1,200 rounds in the pistol optic certification course with COREs and many of them the 5” model, and that is the first malfunction I’ve seen with an SRO- and being that the casing was primarily stuck in the ejection port (there is insufficient room for the casing to wedge under the optic unless it’s still in the ejection port) and the fact that the casing is clearly above the extractor rather than being ejected normally all lead me to wonder if the ammo has something to do with the lack of slide velocity. Are malfunctions possible? Yes. Are they, as the question asked, “likely”? I am totally confident that my answer remains “nope”.

I have no idea exactly what happened, but it seemed relevant to the question asked in this thread. This is the first such instance of this I have experienced. Since I was shooting a stage, I cleared it and moved on.

The ammo is factory Federal Syntech 150 grain that does about 138 PF.

A friend who mounted a SRO on a 320 X5 was having about 1 stoppage per 500 rounds or so, with the case getting caught under the SRO’s snorkel. Springer Precision subsequently redesigned the SRO mount to move the optic further rearward.

[SoCalDep]

Right, but that’s on a 320 and the pistol in this thread is a CORE. The Syntech is listed as “reducing recoil” and designed to be as close as consistency allows to the lower end of the power factor, advertising 890fps for the 150gr bullet. That’s over 100fps less than the listed velocity for my department’s 147gr duty ammo which is a substantial difference in a pistol designed around duty-level reliability and not light competition-type loads.

I know it sounds like I’m arguing minutia, but dude bought a CORE, bought an optic, returned it and bought another, expressed concern before he got it and tried it, and I don’t think it’s appropriate to undercut his confidence based on a malfunction that wasn’t examined in detail, in my mind looks to be very likely ammunition related, and is an anecdotal deviation from tens of thousands of trouble-free factory 124gr FMJ and 147gr JHP rounds.

Not saying it didn’t happen. Just saying it shouldn’t be considered a strong argument against the reliability of the SRO/CORE.

[maximus83]

My experience is that our formal (witnessed by multiple people and documented) 10,000 round test, coupled with multiple instructor’s 8.5 months and in some cases more of training over thousands to tens of thousands of rounds each to the dozens of end-users who each shoot over 1,200 rounds in the pistol optic certification course with COREs and many of them the 5” model, and that is the first malfunction I’ve seen with an SRO- and being that the casing was primarily stuck in the ejection port (there is insufficient room for the casing to wedge under the optic unless it’s still in the ejection port) and the fact that the casing is clearly above the extractor rather than being ejected normally all lead me to wonder if the ammo has something to do with the lack of slide velocity. Are malfunctions possible? Yes. Are they, as the question asked, “likely”? I am totally confident that my answer remains “nope”.

On those CORE pistols, are those the Gen 1 or Gen2? (ETA: asking because I did an image search for M&P's with installed SRO's, it looks like most M&P 2.0 'optic ready' pistols look like mine, with SRO right up at rear edge of ejection port, while I saw some Gen 1 M&P's where there's more clearance).

[SoCalDep]

On those CORE pistols, are those the Gen 1 or Gen2?

Exclusively on 2.0s. My department doesn’t authorize 1.0 COREs because they are all part of the Pro/Performance Center family and those are not authorized.

[maximus83]

Awesome thanks, good to see this discussion on pros/cons and the data on how many rounds you ran thru without issue.

Definitely will keep this optic and train with it, but still good to have awareness of possible stoppages.

[SoCalDep]

Indeed. Also interesting to know that there were several malfunctions with P320s... Since we don’t authorize them I’ve little experience with them but we’ve had people from other agencies go through our classes so it’s good to keep in mind.

An optic related malfunction is certainly possible, and I suppose more likely with the SRO than an optic that doesn’t have some sort of gap and protrusion. That said, the SRO has other benefits and based on overall reliability I don’t consider the minimal potential to be significant enough to sacrifice the benefits.

[HCM]

I have no idea exactly what happened, but it seemed relevant to the question asked in this thread. This is the first such instance of this I have experienced. Since I was shooting a stage, I cleared it and moved on.

The ammo is factory Federal Syntech 150 grain that does about 138 PF.

A friend who mounted a SRO on a 320 X5 was having about 1 stoppage per 500 rounds or so, with the case getting caught under the SRO’s snorkel. Springer Precision subsequently redesigned the SRO mount to move the optic further rearward.

The 150 grain syntech is not very "vigorous." I've seen similar stoppages with it in G34s which ran fine with an ammo switch.

[GJM]

My experience is that the SRO is the most durable competition optic out there, and by a good margin. I carry a a Glock or M&P every day, and have confidence in their reliability.

Every one of these pistols and optics has their pros and cons. Some people are more confident if they feel an issue is not possible, I feel more confident if I know every possible thing that can go wrong. Mechanical things break, sometimes at the worst time, and I like to be familiar with likely failure modes.

If I was updating the SRO, it would not include the forward overhang, since that has the potential to cause stoppages. I would make the battery cap easier to tighten, and not allow a less than very tight battery cap to cause the optic to not work. I would make the auto intensity work better inside against a light background — the auto seems to work better on my RMR type 2 units. I would also look at design or lens coating’s to get rid of the phantom dot.

[SoCalDep]

^Agree.

[GJM]

The 2.0 is a sleeper in terms of being recognized for how good it is. I would like to know the backstory on the 2.0 modifications, as it seems to be far superior than the 1.0, and compares favorably to the best of service pistols.

[SoCalDep]

The 2.0 is a sleeper in terms of being recognized for how good it is. I would like to know the backstory on the 2.0 modifications, as it seems to be far superior than the 1.0, and compares favorably to the best of service pistols.

The Department I work for was a fairly early and very large adopter of the M&P. I wasn't much of an M&P fan in the beginning and only went to it because I'd broken my trigger finger a year prior, was in the testing process to go to our weapons training unit, and scar tissue was building up, making it difficult (and eventually impossible) to press the DA triggers on my Sigs and Berettas. I was afraid to say anything and ruin my chances to get into the unit so I used an M&P and once I made it into weapons training I pressed the shotgun trigger with my middle finger (The trigger guard recoiled into the stock and was super painful) for the first four months I was there.

Then I decided I could go back to the Dr. and if they said I needed surgery I'd proven myself enough not to be considered a loser. The doctor asked me to bend my finger. I showed him how little I could bend it. He took my hand and then used his whole hand to bend my finger all the way into a fist. I heard cracking and about screamed, but then I could bend it and the pain was almost completely gone. I was so mad that I'd sold a bunch of nice guns and freaked out for almost 8 months over something that was fixed in about two seconds.

Anyway... The first M&Ps had ok triggers, horrible barrels, and often shot high. In 2012 (I think) they updated the barrels (still pretty horrible), made the triggers much heavier (not cool), but they shot to point of aim (when they actually hit what they were being aimed at). Worse, I kept switching back and forth between the medium and large grips because neither felt really good. That said, for the average cop they were great! They were super reliable and I abused one for over 40,000 rounds and four years with no lubrication and being dropped in water, mud, sand, and sprayed with salt water. They were accurate enough that most didn't notice any accuracy issue and actually most improved when moving from the Beretta (which is an extremely accurate pistol).

Eventually I went the other way and started carrying Berettas again, then 1911s when we approved them, then Glocks, and ultimately back to Berettas. The 2.0 came out and I wasn't really interested. We tested them and I wanted nothing to do with it. I think I maybe shot 10-20 rounds through a 2.0 until LAPD hosted a pistol optic symposium and demo day in September of 2018. I "didn't like" the M&P so I shot every other gun first... Glocks, STIs, FNs, etc. Toward the end we went over and talked to the S&W guys (while I didn't personally like the M&P, it's a good issue duty gun) and I ended up trying a 2.0 CORE out. Holy crap. The trigger is substantially improved (through some internal changes), the slight contour differences and stippling of the grip made the gun feel right in my hand and helped push the web of my hand into the tang, which without the beavertail allowed my hand to sit higher. Supposedly the chassis and improved lockup make it more accurate... All I knew was that I could hit with it and hit fast.

I picked up a 5" 2.0 with iron sights and it was (and is) a tac-driver. I am now up to three 2.0 COREs, an issued 2.0, and a 2.0 compact. I put one of the CORE slides on the compact frame and it's a great carry gun. One CORE was fitted with an Apex barrel and that's a game changer. I took the CORE frame (the one who’s slide went on the compact) and ordered a slide from ED Brown then had Agency mill it for their AOS system and added an Agency barrel but I haven’t shot it yet. I've heard other people say the 5" and 4" 2.0s are accurate but the 4.25s still aren't great. That's been my experience as well. The Apex makes the 4.25" every bit as accurate as any other gun I've seen.

I've been shooting Glocks a lot this year and overall I still feel like every Glock MOS I own is more accurate than any of my 4.25" COREs (except the one with the Apex) but I shoot the COREs faster. I think the big reason I've stayed with Glock is that I like them and I'm too cheap to buy Apex barrels for all of my COREs. At some point I'll probably pick up a 5" - if it's anything like my iron sight gun I'll be really happy.

[maximus83]

I've heard other people say the 5" and 4" 2.0s are accurate but the 4.25s still aren't great. That's been my experience as well. The Apex makes the 4.25" every bit as accurate as any other gun I've seen.

I've been shooting Glocks a lot this year and overall I still feel like every Glock MOS I own is more accurate than any of my 4.25" COREs (except the one with the Apex) but I shoot the COREs faster. I think the big reason I've stayed with Glock is that I like them and I'm too cheap to buy Apex barrels for all of my COREs. At some point I'll probably pick up a 5" - if it's anything like my iron sight gun I'll be really happy.

I have noticed the improved accuracy in my 2 copies of the 2.0 4" compact, hopefully the new one in this thread is the same.

What do you think of the trigger on your compact, compared to the CORE trigger? Trying to decide whether I'll Apex my triggers; on the fence between keeping them stock vs upgrading. Definitely better than the stock Gen 1 trigger.

[GJM]

I have noticed the improved accuracy in my 2 copies of the 2.0 4" compact, hopefully the new one in this thread is the same.

What do you think of the trigger on your compact, compared to the CORE trigger? Trying to decide whether I'll Apex my triggers; on the fence between keeping them stock vs upgrading. Definitely better than the stock Gen 1 trigger.

I have two Compacts, one with and the other without a thumb safety. The non thumb safety one has a very usable trigger for carry and I have no plans to mess with it. The thumb safety Compact has a crunchy, heavier trigger, and I have purchased an Apex DCAEK kit for it.

[SoCalDep]

I’ll have to pull them out later and check again, but I have found my 2.0 triggers to be pretty consistent. It’s been a few months since I’ve done consistent work with the recruits but I’ve had occasion to shoot a bunch of theirs as well as being part of testing 750 2.0s a few months ago and a thousand 2.0s a couple weeks ago for function and point of aim/point of impact.

Most seem similar with the take up and wall, then a little bit of movement/slipping before the break. Every once in a while we’ll get one that has a really crisp trigger with no movement after the wall until the break.

[maximus83]

OK got her out to the range for the first time this morning (pistol hadn't been fired yet either).

- 75 rounds of 115/124gr including Winchester, CCI, and some range ammo made by Idaho Ordnance. This is such a soft-shooting pistol and so accurate with the RDS, it felt like you could have kept shooting it all day without fatigue.
- No issues in feeding, firing and extraction. One instance on the second magazine where it failed to lock back on empty. This issue does happen to some Gen 2 pistols, though it hasn't happened with my other 2 pistols.
- Trigger is quite good for a striker fired pistol, especially when you compare it to the Gen 1 triggers. After the range session, tested on my Lyman gauge, based on 5 presses it averaged 5.75 lbs. That's consistent with my other two M&P Gen 2 pistols, one is nearly half a pound lighter on the trigger press (but that's after being well broken in), and the other is is slightly heavier, just over 6 lb. This factory trigger, like the ones on my other 2 M&P's, is good enough I will keep it stock rather than upgrade to Apex.

RDS:
- Was easy to get it dialed in. Boresighted at home with a Leupold boresight, which worked better than I expected with the RDS. Initial POI only ended up being about 3 inches lower than POA.
** What's a good all-around distance to zero at, for defensive use? ]\
- The SRO is SOOO easy to see and track with, compared to either RDS I've used on rifles, or my Vortex Venom that's on my 22/45. Definitely see the appeal for the visibility and clarity of the SRO.
- Took a few rounds to settle into using the dot, especially locating it quickly after recoil for a follow-up shot. But it got noticeably easier as I went along.

[SoCalDep]

OK got her out to the range for the first time this morning (pistol hadn't been fired yet either).

- 75 rounds of 115/124gr including Winchester, CCI, and some range ammo made by Idaho Ordnance. This is such a soft-shooting pistol and so accurate with the RDS, it felt like you could have kept shooting it all day without fatigue.
- No issues in feeding, firing and extraction. One instance on the second magazine where it failed to lock back on empty. This issue does happen to some Gen 2 pistols, though it hasn't happened with my other 2 pistols.
- Trigger is quite good for a striker fired pistol, especially when you compare it to the Gen 1 triggers. After the range session, tested on my Lyman gauge, based on 5 presses it averaged 5.75 lbs. That's consistent with my other two M&P Gen 2 pistols, one is nearly half a pound lighter on the trigger press (but that's after being well broken in), and the other is is slightly heavier, just over 6 lb. This factory trigger, like the ones on my other 2 M&P's, is good enough I will keep it stock rather than upgrade to Apex.

RDS:
- Was easy to get it dialed in. Boresighted at home with a Leupold boresight, which worked better than I expected with the RDS. Initial POI only ended up being about 3 inches lower than POA.
** What's a good all-around distance to zero at, for defensive use? ]\
- The SRO is SOOO easy to see and track with, compared to either RDS I've used on rifles, or my Vortex Venom that's on my 22/45. Definitely see the appeal for the visibility and clarity of the SRO.
- Took a few rounds to settle into using the dot, especially locating it quickly after recoil for a follow-up shot. But it got noticeably easier as I went along.

Some people get really serious about zero distance. We used a ballistic calculator and found deviations of less than 2" at all the way out to 50 yards regardless of a 10, 15, or 25 yard zero. I think it matters more at what distance you can get a good group. We typically zero at 15 yards and then bring everyone back to 25 to confirm. If elevation is close we don't mess with it too much but if it's really off we'll move it. Windage will be tweaked as long as the person is still throwing decent and consistent groups. Obviously if you're working small targets like 2" circles up close you'll have that sight offset, but it's almost completely irrelevant for defensive use.

[GJM]

I have a buddy who studied this and swears by 12.5 or 13.5 yards. I do 25 yards out of habit and because I also use this distance for my PCC and shotgun with slugs. It is also a check on the precision of your gun/ammo combination. Truth is, I am more picky about windage than elevation. I have multiple COREs zeroed with 150 Syntech and another with 115 AE for practice, because they hit enough apart to matter and I have more guns than ammo these days.

[Tawadc95]

I have a 507c on a 2.0 compact 4". I'm pretty happy with it.

The gritty feel in the take up travel of the 2.0 is the little tab on the slide lock that puts pressure on the trigger bar for a distinct reset sound and feel. I don't shoot to reset other than sighting and other slow fire needs so I reduced the tab considerably. I still have enough reset for my purposes and there is zero annoying gritty feel. It always has had a clean break now the take up is as clean as the release.

An Apex trigger won't get rid of that take up grit but once that's gone the Apex triggers are a great addition.

[ranger]

I got a really good deal on a Swampfox Justice during the BF sale. The Justice fits on a CORE RMR plate. Installed the Justice tonight - seems really nice. My S&W M&P Gen 2 CORE 4.25" came with metal CORE plates (pistol bought used off PF classifieds). Look forward to trying soon - will be interesting to compare with my one DPP and two SROs.

[Tawadc95]

I went to sight my 507 in Thursday, it was pretty close out of the box, so, it just required some tweaking with windage. .
The intent was to start at 5yds get it close then go to 25yds for zero and at that point start moving back in to see where poi was, with my reloads it was the same poi at 25yds all the way back into 5.

I'll take that any day. I'll settle for 1-1.5" elevation variance with changing distances, I just can't tolerate windage being off.

[ranger]

Took my "new to me" S&W M&P 2.0 Full size (4.25) 9mm CORE with Swamp Fox Justice to the range today. I mounted last night with blue locktite (the kind in tube like chapstick) and used torque wrench to 15 in-lbs. Used the S&W supplied CORE METAL plate. I got this on a BF deal with even better pricing as MIL plus a new "armored" hood that installs around the Justice. I test fit with the "hood" and the hood made it tall enough to block the Dawson BUIS that came with this pistol so i chose not to use the "hood". The Justice seems plenty sturdy and I do not plan on throwing it on rocks, etc. I have never owned a RMR - I have a DPP and two SROs. The Justice fits the RMR cut. adapter, etc. but I believe the Justice has a larger screen than the RMR. The Justice screen is wide but not as tall as the SRO. First impressions are positive for the Justice and I put about 100 rounds of my 9mm reloads through the M&P 2,o FS CORE with Justice. I have been focusing on long range rifle and Sporting Clays recently - good to get back with a pistol. I had no issues zeroing at about 12 yards then shooting conformation group at 25. I am NOT a group shooter but my first 25 yard group with "new-used" M&P 2.0 with Justice attached. Gotten spoiled on a full APEX kit M&P 5 inch with SRO. Ammo is my reloads - 115FMJ "pulls", mixed brass, 5.1 WSF assembled on a Dillon 550. Unknown primers - probably S&B or Winchester. Added some comparison pics with my M&P Gen 1 5 inch with SRO. PS - the Justice was getting "smoky" on front lens from the LCI on the M&P barrel hood - will need to be cleaned every 200 rounds or so. Still see though and functional at 100 rounds today.

6424264243642446424564246

[MD7305]

ranger, you shoot that M2.0 CORE much better than its previous owner! Nice shooting!

[newyork]

Idk why I thought the SRO might hang over the M&P compact ejection port. Guess not. I’m guessing if the gun is milled as opposed to core it’ll be fine too?

[maximus83]

Definitely close but not over. See my pic in post #33.

RDS choices for M&P Compact 4" optics-ready - Page 4 (pistol-forum.com) (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?45385-RDS-choices-for-M-amp-P-Compact-4-quot-optics-ready&p=1146487&viewfull=1#post1146487)