Substituting Small Rifle Primers for Small Pistol

[revchuck38]

Has anyone figured out or found a percentage of charge reduction when subbing SRs for SPs? I've got 6k of WSPs and about that many 9x19 bullets to load, but I also have about 3k Berry's plated RNs to load for .38 Special. My PX4s and CZ-75s will work with the Fed 205s I have and I think my P99Cs will too, but I'm pretty sure my revolvers won't.

Powder will be BE-86.

[farscott]

My understanding is that the only difference between small rifle and small pistol primers is the harder cup in the small rifle primer to handle the increased pressures and the primer being harder to ignite due to the concern about slam firing in rifles.

My concern would not be change in velocity; it would be can your pistol ignite the primer. I run small rifle primers in my 9x23 Winchester reloads due to the rifle pressure of that round.

[olstyn]

There has also been some concern I've seen people talk about in regard to the possibility that the harder cup of a rifle primer may not seal as well at pistol pressures, and as such, might lead to flame cutting of the breach face. Whether that concern is real or not, I don't know, but in times when primers were easy to come by, my thought on it has always been "why risk it?" I guess the real question is whether you think you'll run out of SPPs before you're able to buy any more.

[Mike C]

Has anyone figured out or found a percentage of charge reduction when subbing SRs for SPs? I've got 6k of WSPs and about that many 9x19 bullets to load, but I also have about 3k Berry's plated RNs to load for .38 Special. My PX4s and CZ-75s will work with the Fed 205s I have and I think my P99Cs will too, but I'm pretty sure my revolvers won't.

Powder will be BE-86.

I have not found a percentage charge weight reduction but I have however used standard small rifle primers in 9mm before when supply was short. They went off just fine. IIRC there was little appreciable difference in velocity. I noticed no backing of primers, soot or any other indicator that they were not sealing, (since someone mentioned flame cutting and failure to seal). I loaded less than 1K maybe a little more like this using unique and RMR’s 124gr JHPs in a Glock 17 and 19. I had no failures to ignite using a standard striker spring. If you have concerns over cup thickness and failure to ignite use and extra power spring for ignition if needed. As always start lower and work your way up. I just went in at the normal charge weight but at the time I was generally loading at around 1075fps and in hind sight probably wasn’t smart regardless.

[Jim Watson]

Small rifle primers are routinely used by USPSA racerunners to disguise "pressure signs" in their overloaded ammo.
Before Federal made magnum primers, they recommended their small rifle primer for .357 Magnum.

I have a couple thousand plain vanilla 9mms loaded with rifle primers. They pop when hit by Colt and STI hammers and Plastic M&P striker. I felt dismayed yesterday when I had a misfire but it turned out to be a pistol primer. Probably a high primer from when my Dillon was failing.

With my usual HP38 9mm load, I see NO difference in velocity with small rifle primers.
I see no indication of escaping gas around fired small rifle primers. I will keep an eye on breech faces.


Just for fun, I tried large rifle primers in .45 ACP. That is generally a bad idea, large rifle primers are taller than large pistol primers, cannot readily be seated flush so we are warned against slam fire of a high primer.
To avoid that worry, I applied a rifle "primer pocket uniformer" to some .45 cases. Meant to square and flatten the bottom of the primer pocket, it also deepened the pistol pocket to where a rifle primer could be seated flush or a little below.
Kind of laborious, so I only did ten.
I loaded five with CCI BR2 and five with Remington 9 1/2 and my usual powderpuff .45 load, 3.6 gr Bullseye, 200 gr Xtreme.
All fired normally in the Buzzard, my local shop built 2011 with probably a 19 lb mainspring.

[revchuck38]

There has also been some concern I've seen people talk about in regard to the possibility that the harder cup of a rifle primer may not seal as well at pistol pressures, and as such, might lead to flame cutting of the breach face. Whether that concern is real or not, I don't know, but in times when primers were easy to come by, my thought on it has always been "why risk it?" I guess the real question is whether you think you'll run out of SPPs before you're able to buy any more.

I'm only thinking about doing this because I don't know when the primer shortage will end. The last time this happened, primer production went toward loaded ammo until that pipeline was filled and only then to the reloading market. I'm not too concerned about flame cutting on the breech face.

[olstyn]

I'm only thinking about doing this because I don't know when the primer shortage will end. The last time this happened, primer production went toward loaded ammo until that pipeline was filled and only then to the reloading market. I'm not too concerned about flame cutting on the breech face.

Yeah, like I said, I'm not sure how real that is, and I do remember the last shortage quite well, so I definitely understand why you're considering using SRPs in place of SPPs.

I'm personally set for probably 2 years at my normal rate of consumption on everything but powder (roughly a year worth of that), and my rate of consumption is WAY down from normal due to stupid COVID world meaning that I'm not attending matches at present. Hopefully at T+1.5-2 years from whenever I ramp up my shooting again, primers will be easy to come by.

[mikld]

I read when I started reloading, safe reloading technique is to drop powder charges, start another load work up whenever any component is changed. Today I fudge a little on some components, but I drop about 5% when changing bullets and brass, but primers can affect pressures drastically, so I often go back to a beginning load right out of my manual(s)...

I like reloading and have plenty of components, so a load work-up is just more fun...

[GNiner]

I picked up 10K small rifle primers during the last shortage as backup inventory. Turns out I didn't really need them as my small pistol primer inventory made it through. However, I load primers and powders on a first in / first out basis, so a couple of years ago I loaded and shot all 10K small rifle primers and never noticed any differences. Kept my powder charge the same. No ill effects on guns (Glocks) either.

[5pins]

Small rifle primers are routinely used by USPSA racerunners to disguise "pressure signs" in their overloaded ammo.
Before Federal made magnum primers, they recommended their small rifle primer for .357 Magnum.

I have a couple thousand plain vanilla 9mms loaded with rifle primers. They pop when hit by Colt and STI hammers and Plastic M&P striker. I felt dismayed yesterday when I had a misfire but it turned out to be a pistol primer. Probably a high primer from when my Dillon was failing.

With my usual HP38 9mm load, I see NO difference in velocity with small rifle primers.
I see no indication of escaping gas around fired small rifle primers. I will keep an eye on breech faces.


Just for fun, I tried large rifle primers in .45 ACP. That is generally a bad idea, large rifle primers are taller than large pistol primers, cannot readily be seated flush so we are warned against slam fire of a high primer.
To avoid that worry, I applied a rifle "primer pocket uniformer" to some .45 cases. Meant to square and flatten the bottom of the primer pocket, it also deepened the pistol pocket to where a rifle primer could be seated flush or a little below.
Kind of laborious, so I only did ten.
I loaded five with CCI BR2 and five with Remington 9 1/2 and my usual powderpuff .45 load, 3.6 gr Bullseye, 200 gr Xtreme.
All fired normally in the Buzzard, my local shop built 2011 with probably a 19 lb mainspring.


What Jim said. Federal used to list their small rifle and small pistol magnum as the same primer. The only problem I have ever had with small rifle in a pistol was with some Wolf small rifle AR primers.

[Jim Watson]

Heck, in a previous Panic, I bought some Wolf Small Pistol and they were not at all reliable.
Talking to a loader yesterday who prefers Tula brand, though.

[RevolverRob]

I, unintentionally, did up 100 rounds of .38 Special with small rifle primers about two months ago. I wasn't paying attention to the primers I grabbed and loaded small rifle (designated for my .300BO). All the rounds went off without a hitch, but they were fairly light loads, IIRC ~3.8gr of VV N330 under a 158-grain LSWC, no signs of over pressure, no difference in recoil impulse between those rounds and the ones loaded with CCI SPPs.

I subsequently did the opposite and and loaded 20 rounds (to see how they did) of .300BO with small pistol primers*. All fired without any issue or significant difference in recoil of feel.

My conclusion was, in a pinch, they could be subbed out for one another without a problem. As long as your gun has enough mainspring power to touch them off. In my case a stock GP100 mainspring was more than enough.

*Not a good idea to load these in an AR15, because of the floating firing pin. I ran them in my Rattler which has a firing pin spring and is 'drop safe' thus a slam-fire is not a concern, like it might be with a floating firing pin.

[TOTS]

My understanding is that the only difference between small rifle and small pistol primers is the harder cup in the small rifle primer to handle the increased pressures and the primer being harder to ignite due to the concern about slam firing in rifles.

My concern would not be change in velocity; it would be can your pistol ignite the primer. I run small rifle primers in my 9x23 Winchester reloads due to the rifle pressure of that round.

This. I’m at several thousand SRP through a P229, two 1911s, and a G19.5 with no issues or hesitation to light off. Even the light hammer spring on the 229 has no issues. No apparent detriment to any of the guns either.

[mmc45414]

Yesterday ran an abbreviated test (just ten rounds) of both Tula and Winchester in my M&P with no problems with either.

[Tokarev]

It has been a few years but back when I was shooting USPSA on a regular basis we tested ammo loaded with SP and SR over the chrono. From what I remember we saw about a 40 fps increase with the rifle primer. My guns worked fine but one of the guys I shot with had ignition problems in his STI and its reduced power mainspring.

Just going off memory but I believe we were messing with Wolf primers. Most likely Ramshot Silhouette powder.

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[mmc45414]

Tula and Winchester

I believe we were messing with Wolf primers

I expected the Winchester to work but was glad the Tula did also.

[Borderland]

I just loaded about 75 rds of 9mm with SRP's. I didn't do that intentionally because I have a good supply of SPP's. Total brain fart, just grabbed the wrong tray which are all labeled. Those will be used in a Sig P-239 so I'm confident they'll ignite. My load is 4.0 grains of American Select and 124 gr TMJ. That happens to be the starting load from the Alliant website so I'll just pay attention when I start shooting those for pressure or non-ignition.

This thread has helped me because I was a little worried about it when it happened.

[vaglocker]

What Jim said. Federal used to list their small rifle and small pistol magnum as the same primer. The only problem I have ever had with small rifle in a pistol was with some Wolf small rifle AR primers.

If I may ask what was the issue you had with the Wolf primers? I quit reloading for rifle several years ago and find myself with about 8k Wolf small rifle magnum primers that this thread was getting me exited about potentially repurposing for some 9mm.

[Jim Watson]

Not working as well as I thought.
CCI BR4 checked out ok in short test, but gave misfires over the length of a match. I wonder if they are not SR Magnums, a lot of target shooters load their rifles hot.
I have gone to hand seating them HARD and they appear to be doing better.

WW and Fed SR were fine in previous Panic, I'll get around to my remainder of them presently.


All you can do is try your Wolf primers in your gun; reports are variable.

[Borderland]

Not working as well as I thought.
CCI BR4 checked out ok in short test, but gave misfires over the length of a match. I wonder if they are not SR Magnums, a lot of target shooters load their rifles hot.
I have gone to hand seating them HARD and they appear to be doing better.

WW and Fed SR were fine in previous Panic, I'll get around to my remainder of them presently.


All you can do is try your Wolf primers in your gun; reports are variable.

According to the CCI website they have 3 different small rifle primers. BR4, 400 and 450. 450 being the mag small rifle primer. My understanding of this is BR4 is harder to prevent slam fires in AR's being the only difference between those and the #400 regular small rifle primer. I don't have any experience with #450 primers. I don't know what a magnum small rifle cartridge is, maybe 222 Rem Mag or something like that. I use BR4 to load 30 carbine. It has a floating firing pin like an AR. So does my Ruger Mini. I think Rem 71/2 is also a mag small rifle primer. Vaglocker, I think I read someplace that mag primers use a different compound so I would be careful with those.

[5pins]

If I may ask what was the issue you had with the Wolf primers? I quit reloading for rifle several years ago and find myself with about 8k Wolf small rifle magnum primers that this thread was getting me exited about potentially repurposing for some 9mm.

Light strikes. It's probably not a issue with their stranded rifle primers.

[5pins]

According to the CCI website they have 3 different small rifle primers. BR4, 400 and 450. 450 being the mag small rifle primer. My understanding of this is BR4 is harder to prevent slam fires in AR's being the only difference between those and the #400 regular small rifle primer. I don't have any experience with #450 primers. I don't know what a magnum small rifle cartridge is, maybe 222 Rem Mag or something like that. I use BR4 to load 30 carbine. It has a floating firing pin like an AR. So does my Ruger Mini. I think Rem 71/2 is also a mag small rifle primer. Vaglocker, I think I read someplace that mag primers use a different compound so I would be careful with those.

The BR4 is CCI's bench rest match primers. Their AR primer is the CCI 41.

[Jim Watson]

The BR4 is CCI's bench rest match primers.

That's what the label says. I used them for F class and they did fine in a rifle.
But that does not say what it IS as far as cup thickness, amount of mix, anvil location. Is it physically a small rifle primer or a small rifle magnum primer? Probably not a small rifle military (41) primer.

[Borderland]

The BR4 is CCI's bench rest match primers. Their AR primer is the CCI 41.

I didn't know that, thanks for the correction. I have a bunch of 450's and have no idea when or why I bought those. I suppose they'll work in a pinch for regular 400 primers. I usually load for mid range velocity. I'm hoping I won't have to use those.

[5pins]

I just posted a test on using small rifle primers in the 9mm.

https://general-cartridge.com/2021/01/08/substituting-small-rifle-primers-in-the-9mm/

[banzaijohn]

Atlas Gunworks posted a video on SPP comparisons with Rifle, Small Pistol, and Magnum, results were no negligible difference:

https://youtu.be/jWqDVmJMZfo

[LittleLebowski]

I just posted a test on using small rifle primers in the 9mm.

https://general-cartridge.com/2021/01/08/substituting-small-rifle-primers-in-the-9mm/

Good job on that.

[03RN]

Ive got 2k wolf magnum srp i need to test out

[5pins]

In another forum, people are asking about using small pistol primers in rifles. I guess I'll try that next.

[Flamingo]

Ive got 2k wolf magnum srp i need to test out

Let us know how that goes. I have 5k in the locker.

[mmc45414]

Ive got 2k wolf magnum srp i need to test out

Let us know how that goes. I have 5k in the locker.

I also have 5k...

[deputyG23]

Heck, in a previous Panic, I bought some Wolf Small Pistol and they were not at all reliable.
Talking to a loader yesterday who prefers Tula brand, though.

Picked up a thousand Tula LP primers several years ago for $17/1000.

They all worked just fine in .45 ACP loads with a half Colt half Essex GI type 1911.

[Rick R]

I bought some of the S&B primers from Cabela’s several years ago and noticed the small rifle were marked “for rifle and pistol”. So I primed twenty or so brass and tried them in several of our 9mm pistols. My wife’s P99c and my BHP seemed to be the only ones that would reliably fire them. Since primers were cheap and abundant back then I filed that idea in the Bad Idea drawer and moved on.

After reading this thread I decided to try again with some CCI 400 that I hadn’t been using. Loaded up 20 with bulk 124gr jhp bullets that I have and BE-86, they all fired from my G19 and 9mm SR1911 without drama. I have 1000 124gr fmj bullets somewhere in the clutches of the USPS, BE-86 on the shelf and a bunch of brass in need of filling.
That should keep me in practice ammo till spring thaw.

[TOTS]

You guys are funny; I’m at about 6K sr primers (4K CCI and 2K-ishTula) through a 229, 2 1911s, and a G19.5 with no failures. Even the 18lb spring in the 229 lights them off.

[03RN]

You guys are funny; I’m at about 6K sr primers (4K CCI and 2K-ishTula) through a 229, 2 1911s, and a G19.5 with no failures. Even the 18lb spring in the 229 lights them off.


Im 6 rounds of wolf mag srp with 6 failures in a M10

[TOTS]

Im 6 rounds of wolf mag srp with 6 failures in a M10

Hmmmmm... I have no experience with magnum primers. Maybe there’s something about the mags that makes a difference?

[revchuck38]

My impression is that magnum SR primers in a revolver with a trigger job is a worst-case scenario. Autoloaders have more oomph behind the firing pin strike, though you can go too light on the hammer spring and end up with light strikes there too.

[5pins]

Im 6 rounds of wolf mag srp with 6 failures in a M10

That was pretty much my experience with them in the past when I tried them.

[5pins]

On another note I have some .233 rounds loaded with small pistol primers I plan on shooting tomorrow.

[mmc45414]

My impression is that magnum SR primers in a revolver with a trigger job is a worst-case scenario.
Yeah, a S&W D/A revolver especially, maybe even with a bobbed hammer. Maybe a Ruger Blackhawk, or a GP with that big honking hammer.

[Tawadc95]

I loaded 10 9mm's with REM srp tonight, I'll give them a whirl this week.

[Tokarev]

On another note I have some .233 rounds loaded with small pistol primers I plan on shooting tomorrow.Any updates?

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[5pins]

Any updates?

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I did a quick test just to see if the idea was viable. The only small pistol primers I have were some Federal, Winchester, and some from a company out of Bosnia. The Unis, Bosnian, are magnum primers and I have had problems in the past getting them to set off in any of my pistols.

I loaded 10 of each type in some once fired Speer .223 brass. I used a generic 55gr FMJ bullet and a max charge of BL-C (2). I also loaded some using Wolf small rifle magnum primers for comparison.

The only issue I has was with the Federal primers. Two of them were pierced. The Winchester and Unis worked without issue and showed no signs of pressure.

I'm going to expand on this test later as soon as I get enough once fired brass. The Speer brass I used was crimped and I don't feel like I removed the crimp well enough, causing primer seating issues. This is probably why I had such large extreme spreads with them.

Anyway, here are the velocity data I got, all shot out of a 20in BCM match upper.

Wolf small rifle magnum.
High 3207fps
Low 3089fps
Average 3160fps

Unis small pistol magnum
High 3186fps
Low 3105fps
Average 3145fps

Winchester small pistol
High 3190fps
Low 3051fps
Average 3129fps

Federal small pistol
High 3202fps
Low 3058fps
Average 3105fps

[Flamingo]

Here is a pretty good video from supervel.


https://youtu.be/NGVRGsoOr6k

TLDW - Pressure for SPP, SPM, SRP are all pretty close.

[Super77]

Thats great news, I have a bunch of small rifle but low on small pistol

[Ivantheterrible]

I just finished shooting up about 60 rounds of .45 ACP small pocket brass rounds using some old CCI SR primers and a standard charge of W231 under a 230g cast bullet. Everything worked just fine out of a Springfield 1911.

[5pins]

I have a bunch of small pistol primers loaded in some .223 and 6.5 Grendel. I'm just waiting for the weather to get nice enough to go the range and try them out.

[Tawadc95]

Has anyone tried small rifle magnum for their 9mm?
I've always been able to use small pistol or small pistol magnum from any manufacturer with no ill results.

I've started using small rifle for the 9 but I have a really nice size supply of small pistol magnum if it works.

[NGP]

I have a bunch of small pistol primers loaded in some .223 and 6.5 Grendel. I'm just waiting for the weather to get nice enough to go the range and try them out.

Let us know how they work, thinking of trying the same myself.

[Flat6]

I ran a few magtech small rifle primers over 3.2 titegroup with 147 zero bullets and had clean ignitions with Glock 45 stock trigger and springs. Couldn’t tell recoil difference versus federal pistol version of the same load. I don’t own a chrono. How are all you adjusting your loads with the rifle primers?

[5pins]

Let us know how they work, thinking of trying the same myself.

As soon as the weather is nice enough to sit at the range for an hour or two I will try them and let you know.


I ran a few magtech small rifle primers over 3.2 titegroup with 147 zero bullets and had clean ignitions with Glock 45 stock trigger and springs. Couldn’t tell recoil difference versus federal pistol version of the same load. I don’t own a chrono. How are all you adjusting your loads with the rifle primers?

The same way you would when changing any component, drop the charge weight by about five % then work your way up.

[mmc45414]

The same way you would when changing any component, drop the charge weight by about five % then work your way up.
One consideration might be that working your way back up might not be so easy, since flat primers are one of the most common signs of pressure.
I loaded some with the normal mid-level loads I typically use and it seemed fine. I wonder if pistol powder in cartridges like 9mm just burn so fast anyway you cannot ignite them any much more faster?

[revchuck38]

One consideration might be that working your way back up might not be so easy, since flat primers are one of the most common signs of pressure.
I loaded some with the normal mid-level loads I typically use and it seemed fine. I wonder if pistol powder in cartridges like 9mm just burn so fast anyway you cannot ignite them any much more faster?

Flat primers may or may not indicate high pressure. Federal 100s will flatten at .38 Special pressure, while CCI 500s will have rounded edges at 9x19 pressure.

Don’t know if it’s possible to over-ignite powder in handgun cartridges, it makes sense to proceed with caution. I’m going with matching velocities.

[mmc45414]

I’m going with matching velocities.
That is probably the best bet, as well as staying away from maximums anyway.

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

I did a quick test just to see if the idea was viable. The only small pistol primers I have were some Federal, Winchester, and some from a company out of Bosnia. The Unis, Bosnian, are magnum primers and I have had problems in the past getting them to set off in any of my pistols.

I loaded 10 of each type in some once fired Speer .223 brass. I used a generic 55gr FMJ bullet and a max charge of BL-C (2). I also loaded some using Wolf small rifle magnum primers for comparison.

The only issue I has was with the Federal primers. Two of them were pierced. The Winchester and Unis worked without issue and showed no signs of pressure.

I'm going to expand on this test later as soon as I get enough once fired brass. The Speer brass I used was crimped and I don't feel like I removed the crimp well enough, causing primer seating issues. This is probably why I had such large extreme spreads with them.

Anyway, here are the velocity data I got, all shot out of a 20in BCM match upper.

Wolf small rifle magnum.
High 3207fps
Low 3089fps
Average 3160fps

Unis small pistol magnum
High 3186fps
Low 3105fps
Average 3145fps

Winchester small pistol
High 3190fps
Low 3051fps
Average 3129fps

Federal small pistol
High 3202fps
Low 3058fps
Average 3105fps

5pins- While I've loaded 10's of thousands of 9x21 (loaded to 9x19mm OAL for tanfoglio open guns) 183-185 PF, high pressure ammo back in the day with SRP, I would caution someone going the other direction using SPP instead of SRP- especially in something with a non-dropsafe floating firing pin (most 556 and 6.5 grendels). Chances of a detonation when when dropped, a slamfire, or pierced primer all increase with that combination.

Respectfully,

[Tokarev]

https://youtu.be/NGVRGsoOr6k

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[rojocorsa]

FWIW,

After reading this thread earlier and doing some research,

I decided to load up some 9mm 115 gr Xtremes with my usual charge of 4.5grs HP38 at 1.145-1.150" COAL with Federal 205 SR primers instead of Federal 100s which I typically use.

I tested 50 of those rounds in a bone stock Glock 48 and had no issues nor did the brass look concerning to me. I went ahead and loaded up another 550 of those (600 total). I am planning to use the remaining 400 for 38spl loads.


In the past I've loaded 115 and 147s with Remington 6 1/2 primers as well, my understanding that the consensus on those is that they've been considered to be so mild (not even suitable for 5.56 ammo) that they're treated more or less as defacto small pistol primers.

I am aware I am posting this as anecdotal without any data or numbers.

[revchuck38]

^^^^For the .38 Special loads, I'd use whatever pistol primers you have instead. Revolvers seem to be less tolerant of the harder primer cups.

[CJK]

^^^^For the .38 Special loads, I'd use whatever pistol primers you have instead. Revolvers seem to be less tolerant of the harder primer cups.With Wolf Magnum Small rifle primers, I found this to be true. With 4.5 grains of Unique I had a greater percentage fail to fire on the first try in my Speed Six. Some took 2 to 3 strikes to fire, one never did. Great trigger control test[emoji23]

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[Trooper224]

The only real difference between pistol and rifle primers is the hardness of the cup. I don't know why this is so hard for so many people to understand. It's no different than understanding the difference between standard and magnum primers,which isn't much. People insist on acting as if they're launching a rocket to mars.

When I've been forced to use rifle primers in handgun loads, I've never bothered to adjust the charge weight, I've simply loaded them up like usual and went shooting. We used to know these things before spreadsheets and apps and the like. Now, it's suddenly become akin to cracking the Rosetta stone.

I typically see the neccesity for second stikes at about a ten percent rate in revolvers, as well as my tuned up Beretta 92s. With 1911s and S&W 3rd Gen pistols ignition is one hundred percent. The latter has been with CCI #34 Rifle primers, which are probably the hardest domestic primers made.

I differ my loading procedures in only one way: large rifle primers are just a bit taller than their pistol counterparts. As such, I take a few seconds to clean the carbon out of the primer pocket before seating, in order to make sure I get a proper seating depth. Other than that, there's no need to get wrapped around the axle about it.

[Rick R]

I differ my loading procedures in only one way: large rifle primers are just a bit taller than their pistol counterparts. As such, I take a few seconds to clean the carbon out of the primer pocket before seating, in order to make sure I get a proper seating depth. Other than that, there's no need to get wrapped around the axle about it.

Well, learning has occurred. I had read that large rifle primers were too tall for pistol brass but never tried them. After reading this I primed six new Starline .44 Magnum brass with six Winchester large rifle primers. Lo and behold! They fit just flush with the base of the cartridge and I test fired one each in my .44 Ruger #1 and my Ruger Super Blackhawk without issue. Since a lot of my .44 ammo will be shot thru the #1 and my 1894 Marlin this will work nicely even if the revolvers would balk at ignition.

When the component drought got real I discovered that the only thing I was low on was LPP and you sir have just relieved my tension. Thank you.

Alliant Unique used to have a warning against using magnum primers due to pressure excursions. Have you seen any issues with that powder and rifle primers in pistols? FWIW I’ve shot a lot of Unique fueled .45/70 ammo in rifles without any problems.

[Trooper224]

Well, learning has occurred. I had read that large rifle primers were too tall for pistol brass but never tried them. After reading this I primed six new Starline .44 Magnum brass with six Winchester large rifle primers. Lo and behold! They fit just flush with the base of the cartridge and I test fired one each in my .44 Ruger #1 and my Ruger Super Blackhawk without issue. Since a lot of my .44 ammo will be shot thru the #1 and my 1894 Marlin this will work nicely even if the revolvers would balk at ignition.

When the component drought got real I discovered that the only thing I was low on was LPP and you sir have just relieved my tension. Thank you.

Alliant Unique used to have a warning against using magnum primers due to pressure excursions. Have you seen any issues with that powder and rifle primers in pistols? FWIW I’ve shot a lot of Unique fueled .45/70 ammo in rifles without any problems.

When the latest buying/hoarding crisis first appeared on the horizon, I increased my component buying in an attempt to lay in as much as i could. That worked pretty well. Then, i was sitting at my reloading table and glanced at the shelf. I then realized i had over 3k rifle primers sitting on the shelf. The day got a little brighter.

[RevolverRob]

I'm just pissed because yesterday I had 5000 CCI #400 SRPs in my Brownells cart for normal price ($230) and my fucking internet crashed before I could finish checking out and they were gone by the time my internet came back.

Ugh.

[5pins]

I still haven't gotten around to shooting the rounds I loaded up with the small pistol primers in .223. However, an interesting video came out on the subject of using SPP in rifles.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZV6Pe1eRY4

[Trooper224]

I still haven't gotten around to shooting the rounds I loaded up with the small pistol primers in .223. However, an interesting video came out on the subject of using SPP in rifles.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZV6Pe1eRY4

Thanks for this, it's brought something important to mind.

I was referencing using rifle primers in pistol cartridges. I would not recommend the opposite practice. When you're dealing with pressures magnitudes higher than those found in pistol cartridges, stick to the program.

[mmc45414]

Starting to have some problem with some of the Wolf primers. Have been cruising right along, gaining enough confidence that I didn't bother to swap them out prior to our little local monthly three gun match, probably jinxed it...

Was having a good day and running a good stage that included, in order to re-holster a clear pistol, a shot at a "high value" target, where you drop the mag before your last shot at a row of plates. I was zipping right along ping-ping-ping-ping-click... This was the next to last stage and the next one was worse. I think I might have some Tula (that worked fine) in with the Wolf, and the Wolf just isn't working in the striker gun.

I am not a logbook kind of guy, but this made me go back and do some math and figure out that this pistol (5" M&P 2.0) has at least 7k, but more likely 10k through it, with no spring maintenance. So I swapped in a new striker assembly and recoil spring assembly, but got the same result.

This is not that specific cartridge, but another example of one that DID go off:
71845

Anyway, not an issue with SRP substitution, but using the hardest of the hard is not working out for me. Looks like I might have a few hundred rounds that need to run through the 1911. Yesterday I tested the rounds I was having trouble with through a friend's Wilson pistol, and the last round in the mag required a second strike. Or maybe it might be an excuse to buy the Beretta 92 I keep telling myself I want an example of! :cool:

[revchuck38]

FWIW, I loaded some .40 S&W with Federal 205s to try them in my M&P40 1.0 and while they all went off, the primer indents looked about the same as yours. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. :rolleyes: Worst case, I have a pair of CZ-75Bs with extended firing pins that'll probably light off military small rifle primers.

[Trooper224]

I will caveat my earlier comments by saying that I've never done this with striker fired guns. My experience with primer swapping has all been with hammer fired pistols.

[mmc45414]

FWIW, I loaded some .40 S&W with Federal 205s to try them in my M&P40 1.0 and while they all went off, the primer indents looked about the same as yours. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. :rolleyes:

I will caveat my earlier comments by saying that I've never done this with striker fired guns.
I did enough "testing", in M&Ps and Glocks, before loading these in some quantity, that I was confident. Now I am wondering if there might be some variation in these older Wolf primers that might bite me in the butt.


Worst case, I have a pair of CZ-75Bs with extended firing pins that'll probably light off military small rifle primers.

My experience with primer swapping has all been with hammer fired pistols.
Yeah, not super worried, I have a couple of 9mm 1911s, and I could play with a jacked up main spring if they don't work. And after all, I do have a AR that damn well better set them off.

Or I could finally get a CZ or Beretta or Sig DA/SA like I have always sorta wanted that could easily double strike them, seems like all problems can be solved at the gun store... :cool:

[revchuck38]

I finally got around to trying the Federal 205s in 9x19. They're a smidge wider than the WSPs I've been using, and I had two that didn't quite fit in the primer pocket, one was PPU headstamp and the other was S&B. I'm guessing that it was just the primers being on the large end of specs and the brass being on the small end.

I ran 48 rounds through the P99C and 50 through the PX4. All fired on the first try though the firing pin indent was less than with pistol primers. Since this will be practice ammo, that's good enough. ;) I'm going to keep the 550 set up for 9x19 and keep loading until I run out of bullets, I've got about 2500 124-grain FMJs and 1500 coated LRNs.

[entropy]

Good to know. I wonder if the Large Rifle would work similar.

[Skinner Precision, LLC]

Good to know. I wonder if the Large Rifle would work similar.

No. Small rifle and pistol are same dimensions on the pocket while LRP and LPP are not...

[03RN]

I'm just pissed because yesterday I had 5000 CCI #400 SRPs in my Brownells cart for normal price ($230) and my fucking internet crashed before I could finish checking out and they were gone by the time my internet came back.

Ugh.

It may have been because Brownells limits primers to 2k of each kind per purchase.

I got my 2k and 4lbs of 231. I should be good for a couple months.

Eta, I think I'm a few thousand rounds of cci #400 SRP in my revolvers without issue.

[entropy]

No. Small rifle and pistol are same dimensions on the pocket while LRP and LPP are not...


Thanks much for the edumication! Appreciate the reply.

[revchuck38]

Well, I loaded 1,000 rounds with those primers today, got about that many FMJs left to load, should be done with them this week.