Saving up to get started, and need advice.

[DMF13]

I've decided I should start saving up to reload, and I'm looking for advice on getting started. I don't know anyone near me who is a serious re-loader, so I'm on my own.

I am starting to slowly save up money to get the necessary equipment, but want to have a solid plan, so that months down the road I'll know what I need to buy, and how to set up for success. I have just started to collect once fired 9mm brass, so by the time I'm ready to get going hopefully I'll have a large supply ready to go.

I'm looking at loading 200-400 rounds per month, and probably double that, once I'm "semi-retired" in a few years, and able to shoot more. I will only be loading 9mm, with a very slight possibility of loading .357/.38 Special if I ever get back into revolvers. However, I have no idea where to get started, but I like to research thoroughly, and have a good plan, before I invest a lot of money. Especially on things that involve the possibility of injury if done wrong.

I'd like to get a setup that I can grow into, rather than starting with a "starter" setup, and then having buy a whole new setup later. So I am looking for something that will be fast/practical for the 800+ rounds a month I hope to be shooting in a few years, but will also allow me start off slow until I get the hang of everything. Also, I'm doing this for practical reasons, not because I will get any great enjoyment in the reloading itself.

I just purchased the "Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading" (10th Edition), hoping that the "Basics of Reloading," and "Tips and Techniques" sections will give me an idea of the basic concepts. Any other suggestions on what to read?

So I can figure out what to budget for, and hopefully jump on any good deals (new or used), what systems should I be considering? What will I really need to get started?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[CCT125US]

Without knowing your mechanical ability, and considering your desire to have a system to grow into, I would suggesting a turret press. You won't be producing pallets of ammo, but it will give you a good foundation and production ability. A very squared away shooter and master mechanic, just picked up a Hornady LN auto progressive. He was slightly overwhelmed, and intimidated with setup, which I found odd. So even one's ability doesn't translate to confidence.

[DG12]

I’ll be following this thread. I’m in the same boat, but I do have people around that can probably help me. I know almost nothing about reloading or what to buy. Thanks for starting this.

[Wise_A]

I believe we are missing two pieces of information: your budget, and how much time you intend to spend reloading. In order to determine what equipment you should be using, you need to know the value of your money, and the value of your time. More money and less time means more expensive gear. Lots of time and very little money means going less-expensive.

Budget is easy--I would suggest a Lee turret at the low end, and a Dillon 550 at the high. Lee does make a very affordable progressive press--the Auto Breechlock Pro. I have one, and while it does produce well for its price, it is not something I would inflict on a first-time reloader. I'm going over to a Dillon 750 for my higher-volume cartridges. The Lee turret, on the other hand, is simple to set up and easy to operate. I've produced as much as 200 rounds in an hour on one, although that was a very atypical, high-effort session. Expect 125-150/hr being more likely, depending on how well you get the priming system to work.

The other part of the equation is time. How long do you intend to spend reloading every month? How committed are you to loading on a schedule? An hour a week will produce a fair amount of ammunition, if you can stick to it.

Given your intended volume, I would recommend trying to stretch for the 550. And truly, I would just as soon get the 750. Later on, you can add in case- and bullet-feeding.


Also, I'm doing this for practical reasons, not because I will get any great enjoyment in the reloading itself.

I would honestly just buy ammo in bulk then. It'll probably be more expensive in the long run, but reloading rapidly gets out of hand. The one exception I would make is if you're in a state that makes online ordering hard.

On the other hand, if you wanted to expand into more expensive, niche calibers--.38/.357, .44 Magnum, etc--the economics start tilting in favor of reloading very quickly. Which is a really good reason to reload by itself. I have a whole slew of guns that I just wouldn't have bought and couldn't afford to shoot without reloading.

---

As far as basic equipment list, besides the press and dies--

--Inexpensive digital scale, one of the little flip-open ones will do fine so long as it comes with a check weight
--Chamber checker for 9mm is a must-have, I like the EGW 8-hole
--Vibratory tumbler, crushed walnut media (Harbor Freight walnut blasting media works fine)
--Get an RCBS media separator, thank me later
--Ammo storage boxes
--Notebook to track loads
--Calipers, you don't need expensive ones for what you're doing
--I would recommend the EGW/Lee Undersized sizing die if you have a tight-chambered 9mm; CZs and 9mm 1911s are notorious for this
--A decent, solid bench with good lighting and no distractions (no TV over the bench, I have a stroke every time I see that)

[EricP]

The ABCs of Reloading is another good book that explains the reloading process well.

As far as a press goes, I would vote for a Dillon 550. It’s manually indexed. You can use it like a single stage or turret press. Since you are staying at one primer size (small pistol), changing over from to 38/357 is fairly easy. With an extra tool head you can have dies for 38/357 set up. The 550 will allow you to produce the ammo quantities you mentioned (and more) in a reasonable time without being too much press.

Lee makes good dies. The Lee factory crimp die is a great crimp die. I would stick with Lee pistol dies until you have a reason not to like frequently changing bullet weigh or type (favoring a micrometer seating die or something with changeable stems) or other reasons. Stick with four die systems; seating and crimping are best done in separate processes.

Get a good scale. I like digital, but they are not created equal. A bad scale is either dangerous or an exercise in frustration. I am relatively happy with RCBS. Beam scales work and can be very accurate. They are also slow.

We have a bunch of threads about calipers here. Get decent ones. Don’t drop them. Case gauges are useful. Your clean barrel will work for you too.

Clean your brass. I still dry tumble, but I would like to try wet tumbling. Dry tumblers are cheap, loud, and they work until they die which, they will.

If you go with a single stage or turret press, you will also want a powder measure and some method for priming. Priming may be integrated into the press or done with a hand or bench priming tool.

[Leroy]

If you truly believe you will eventually be loading 800+ rounds a month, get a Dillon progressive with a casfeeder. You will end up with about a $1,000+ in it but you will be able to load 600 rounds in 1.5 hours easy, and I think to pay off the press you would need to load around 16,000-17,000 rounds.

I am bias though, I hate reloading, it is just a means to cheap ammo (that is actually better than most bulk garbage if you get good loads worked up). I value my time.

[mmc45414]

Already good stuff. In my case I learn more quickly from video, and the one on Dillon's site that pitches the 550 is helpful for several reasons. I think it shows the actions involved in taking a fired case back to a cartridge in a very basic form, and the process really is pretty basic. No matter what tools you use you have to:
Sizing - Squeeze it back down to original shape, typically punching the primer out at the same time
Priming - Pushing in a new primer
Flaring - Opening the case to accept a new bullet
Charging - Dumping in the new powder
Seating - Pushing the new bullet in to the proper depth
Crimping - putting that flare back against the bullet, really important to 9mm

With a progressive tool several of these steps take place at the same station (for example, the first station is size, deprime, prime), the 550 video shows this in a simple manner:
https://youtu.be/k0__OViMcaA
And I like this guy, and he goes into more detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACs8WW0Y2dU

Once you understand the basics of the 550 it might make it easier to evaluate all of the other options, and boy, are there a buttload of options. The volumes you talk about are manageable, so there are a variety of approaches, and you potentially face a confusing decision. It is always easy to shoot from the hip and tell a guy to get a 550, because few people that buy them do not like them. But they are not so cheap, and there are lots of other options. They are also very straightforward and easy to understand, And you can load one at a time until you are comfortable. Maybe a good exercise would be to cost out a 550 and see if that hits your budget window. At a minimum you would need:
The 550
Dies - I also like Lee
Scale - I also recommend a simple beam, the digitals are handy but gravity is more reliable

I do not mean this as a specific recommendation, more of a baseline that will help you make your own determinations both from a cost and a mechanics standpoint. Though it could be a recommendation, what you describe is pretty much the 550 sweet spot. Since it doesn't index automatically it makes it easier to learn with, but it can still crank out some decent volume. I ended up with two 650s, but that was after over thirty years with a 550. As mentioned, a 550 is very easy to change out to alternative cartridges, especially if they are both small primers. Perhaps buying more guns should factor into the budget... :cool:

You should probably have a caliper, but you can seat to the same depth as a comparable factory round. A case gage is handy but you can test by pulling the barrel from your pistol and verifying the first few examples drop right in (people say "plunk test") without getting into the rifling. With round nose ammo if a 9mm will fit into the magazine it will probably function in your gun.

You are going to want some kind of cleaner, and wet and dry have their separate issues, dust for the dry and moisture (duh... :D ) for the wet. I am currently using the wet, it is faster in the machine and no dust. Dry also requires a separator, and that is another bulky piece of dirty kit you end up moving around, and the dust produced is nasty. With the wet the cases are obviously wet, you can use a dehydrator, but I lay them out flat for a few days and they dry. There are threads here about using wet tumbler without the pins (F.A.R.T.).

One wildcard consideration might be the Lee APP. You could use it like a single station press while you learn, and then set it up for sizing with the case feeder later on. This would be more batch processing but they are blazing fast and only cost $100. This process could look like:
Size/Deprime - With their simple little case feeder this is really fast
Wet Tumble - With the primers out they would dry fast
Flare - Just as fast as the sizing step
Prime - This can be done on the APP but it is clunky, you would probably want the Lee Bench Prime
Charge - This would take place with a simple powder measure off of the press
Seat - This would be using the APP like a single stage
Crimp - Another single stage process, but you might get by without for practice ammo
I got an APP primarily because my 9mm brass got polluted with a bunch of crimped cases and I want to use the primer pocket swaging capability, but since I was using it to knock the primers out I decided to size them at the same time, and since I was going to tumble them after I used lube like a rifle case and that has really made it easy later.

Anyway, there are so many options that choosing can be a challenge.

[olstyn]

I'm personally not a fan of the Dillon 550 from a conceptual standpoint. It's basically the same price as the Hornady LNL AP, but it doesn't auto-index (easier to screw up/double charge a case), has only four stations (five stations is a significant advantage, as it allows for using a bullet feeder *and* a powder check die, which, especially as I was getting used to loading on a progressive, I found comforting.

For me, the choice is really between the LNL AP and the Dillon 650 (if you can find one - it's discontinued) or Dillon 750 (new version of the 650). Either will serve you well long-term (the Dillon will be more expensive, but some people think they're better - YMMV on that), and going with a non-progressive press for 9mm is just miserable, speaking as someone who learned to reload on his father in law's single stage. Yes, it'll take a while to pay off the "investment" in a 5-station auto-indexing progressive, but it's likely where you'd end up in the end anyway. Buy once, cry once.

As far as other equipment goes, others have basically covered that already, but here's a quick mental inventory of what I have:

Dies - I have RCBS dies, and they work fine, but looking back, I kind of wish I'd bought the Hornady dies, simply because I like the design of their lock rings better. The RCBS use a set screw which turns into the threads of the dies, whereas the Hornady uses a clamping action. Not having the potential to deform the die body's threads would be preferable in my mind.

Mini Mr. Bulletfeeder. (Good budget bullet feeder option, smooths out the loading process in a big way - not needed initially, but a "nice to have" for sure.)

Calipers - I've got the cheap Hornady dial calipers, and for reloading purposes, it does a fine job.

Lee beam scale - cheap but reliable option. Max capacity of a little over 100 grains, so if you ever want to load really big rifle cartridges or validate the weight of bullets, you need something better, but for weighing charges of any "normal" cartridge, this will do fine.

Vibratory tumbler + media separator. These are basically all the same as far as I understand. Mine is from Midsouth shooters, because that's where I ordered my press (and basically everything else) from way back when. Be aware that used media is full of lead-rich dust and act accordingly.

Chronograph - lots of options here from budget to expensive, but you can 100% get by with the budget options. IIRC I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $125-150, including purchasing a tripod for it.

Case lube - for 9mm, I highly recommend having a can of the Hornady One Shot case lube around. Spray fairly liberally into whatever container your brass is in, shake it around, and load. You can definitely load 9mm without case lube, but One Shot significantly reduces the effort when sizing cases, and leads to more smoothness and more consistency in results.

Case gauge - I'm going to go against the grain here and say it's not necessary. Just figure out which of your pistols has the tightest chamber and run the "plunk test" on finished rounds using that barrel.

Lots of small tools, too. A chamfer/deburr tool is cheap and nice to have, as is a primer pocket reamer for when you run into military 9mm brass with crimped primers.

I'm sure there's more, but that's what comes to mind off the top of my head.

[Whirlwind06]

A single-stage press is where to start.
The Dillion 550 can be used in this way and the Lee turret as well.

Making consistently safe, functional rounds is the goal. Progressive presses with all of the moving parts and steps being done at the same time is a recipe for problems without knowing the fundamentals of reloading. I went from a Lee single stage to a Lee Pro 1000 I think it was in a very short time and had a lot of problems from squib loads to crushed primers. I ended up pulling a lot of bullets.

I went back to a few single-stage presses and then a turret press. Doing the job in batches with 2 single-stage presses allowed me to get a good understanding of what's going on at each step. Then when I went back to a progressive I had very few problems.

[BehindBlueI's]

I still use a Lee turret. It's pretty easy to load 150-ish rounds an hour once everything is set up, assuming you're using a powder thrower and not measuring every drop. It's simple, it gives you a lot of control over the process, and it's very inexpensive. I'd recommend getting a plate for every set of dies so once they are set you never have to mess with them again. I'm on my second one in about 20 years because a small part broke on my old one that was no longer made, but at the price...who cares.

[ranger]

If just loading 9mm, Dillon Square Deal. It s by far the most underappreciated press out there. I used to have three - 9, 40, 45 - and cranked out a lot of pistol ammo through them. I have 550s now because I do rifle.

[Snapshot]

Lots of great advise above so I will just add my personal experience. I started with a Dillon 650 with a case feeder - this is a fairly sophisticated progressive press. I was loading primarily 40 S&W for IPSC, then added 9mm and 44 magnum for Cowboy Action (yes, I know...). It has been a great press and I have no regrets about starting off with it. Since then I have added a Forstner Coax for rifle reloading and a Lee for case prep, both single stage and good presses but I would not want to load hundreds of rounds on them.

[farscott]

At 400 rounds per month, that is less than one hundred rounds per week. I cannot suggest a progressive press for both a new reloader and that round count. I use a hand press for that quantity, but a turret press would be more the norm.

I also would focus on good measuring equipment (calipers, scale), good lighting, and a dedicated work area. Due to dust and lead, my setups are in the outbuilding. A sturdy bench and lots of storage are needed. I added a dehumidifier as well as a window AC unit for the summer and an oil-filled electric radiator heater in the winter.

[Spartan1980]

For the number of rounds per month that you state, a turret press is perfect for you. You can easily load 800 a month on them once you establish a system. 200-400 is a piece of cake.

I love my Redding T7 but there are more reasonably priced models out there. With most turret presses you can keep a couple of sets of dies in the toolhead all adjusted and ready to go at all times too.

If it's only handgun calibers you intend to reload you can look into a Dillon Square Deal as they are affordable and they auto-index, but they don't do rifle calibers. For reasons others mentioned earlier I always steer a new reloader towards an auto-index progressive if that's the route they choose. It's just too easy to pull the handle twice without indexing and get a double charge while you are learning the process. The more interaction you have with a progressive, the more "oops moments" you end up with. Auto-index helps with that. Once they are dialed in and making ammo and you've got your own individual processes down that largely goes away as long as you are diligent in your consistency. Progressive presses are fine to learn on, but you have to take the time to learn and they are not as good in that respect as a single stage or turret.

Get a good 1/2 dozen manuals. They all have good info.
A good beam scale with check weights is fine, digital isn't required, just nice to have.
A decent set of calipers will have you using them for all sorts of things other than reloading, I don't know how I'd function without them.

These are the main items, as you learn what works for you, you will also learn what other items you want and what things you will want to change up. That happens as you go along. Welcome to the addiction...

[willie]

I have advised many beginning reloaders how to enter this game with minimum expenditure, have 1st class equipment, and do so without buying items that will be set aside or discarded later. Your first step should be to identify where your bench will be. It does not have to be large. But it must be sturdy and not flex. Lee outdid themselves when they devised the Classic Cast Turret Press. Let's start there. PM me if you care to correspond.

[vcdgrips]

I was you in law school. I went with a Dillon Square Deal B and a their started kit which had: a scale/calipers/primer flip tray/adjustment wrench/a few replacements parts etc.
Later I added a Dillon 550 for .45 cal thinking that I would swap between that and other calibers. I never have.

My first shooting mentor ( DRS-RIP) had a conga line of Dillon SDBs on his bench with the goal of loading 100 per day in a given caliber. As such, he never ran out of ammo. 38-357/9mm/44 spl-44mag/.45 cal/.223 IIRC.

In the end, he sent them all back to the mothership for a lube/oil/adjust, sold them for more than he had in them and bought two Dillion 650s, one for small primer and one for large primer. he also stopped reloading bulk .223.
In normal times, I never found reloading for 9mm worth the time when you could get quality 9mm to the door at 199.99@1000 all day long because it cost me 130ish @1000 to reload (80 per 1000 for plated bullets/30 per thousand for primers and 20 per tounsand for powder/brass 0 as it was range pick up.) I know some people do better because they buy in bulk.

We are not in normal times.

In the end, IMHO, you will not "save" money reloading, you will simply spend more in the end because you will shoot more in the end. It is however, very nice to shoot optimized loads for specific applications i.e. 4.3 of 231 and a 124 plated bullet out of a G34, barely makes IDPA minor, soft shooting, highly accurate, made with pride etc. I am "told" that 3.7 will ding steel if that is all you need to do and is almost like cheating when you run it in a G34 with a recoil spring that had been in a G35 running full power factory loads for awhile.

[gkieser92]

I have been using a Lee Turret for about 9 years now. I bought a kit very similar to this one: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013020237.

My kit came with the Auto-Disk measure, though. The Auto-Disk is very good for pistol, but struggles with bigger charges for rifle. I added an Auto-Drum measure for .223 and 6.5 CM. I also upgraded to a Dillon beam scale. I can churn out 200 rounds of pistol an hour, and .223 is a bit slower. I load my 6.5 rounds in single-stage mode. The $ to versatility ratio is very good. My next press will be a true single stage, since I am getting more interested in precision.

[Leroy]

A single-stage press is where to start.
The Dillion 550 can be used in this way and the Lee turret as well.

Making consistently safe, functional rounds is the goal. Progressive presses with all of the moving parts and steps being done at the same time is a recipe for problems without knowing the fundamentals of reloading. I went from a Lee single stage to a Lee Pro 1000 I think it was in a very short time and had a lot of problems from squib loads to crushed primers. I ended up pulling a lot of bullets.

I went back to a few single-stage presses and then a turret press. Doing the job in batches with 2 single-stage presses allowed me to get a good understanding of what's going on at each step. Then when I went back to a progressive I had very few problems.

I disagree. You will be miserable, it will suck, I did it, and don't recommend it.

Loading 9 mm is easy, if you can't do it you should probably not own a gun. The only squib round I ever loaded was on a single stage because I missed one case in the tray when throwing charges. Bullet stuck in the barrel, luckily it was far enough back in the chamber the next round would not feed. Progressives force you to hit all the operations, prevents double charges, etc. Just follow the rule that once the case leaves the shell holder it starts over, back into the case feeder, or in the shit rounds box.

[vcdgrips]

“Loading 9 mm is easy, if you can't do it you should probably not own a gun.”

Not true and much more importantly, not remotely helpful to the OP.

[Borderland]

I've loaded over 10K rds on a Lee Classic single stage press. That's all I have. I shoot about 400 rds a month. I would say that press is good for 100 rds an hour. It does bottleneck cartridges as well as straight wall. If you want more capacity, make your first purchase a turret press that auto indexes. The learning curve will be steeper but the payoff will come eventually.

The nice thing about a single stage press is you learn the ins and outs of loading different cartridge's pretty fast without dealing with press issues. Those are great for new reloaders because each step is a very hands on separate operation. That can become mind numbing once you have the process down but I don't hear a lot of people saying it's a bad idea for a new reloader. It's just very time consuming but once you have the basics down you're probably ready for any number of high end progressive presses. You can also pass that press on to a new reloader who may not have the money to buy one.

I was ready for a progressive press a long time ago but never purchased one. The result is I have two dozen dry boxes full of brass in various stages of prep. That's probably a downside to not having a progressive press. :(

I seriously need to retool.

[mmc45414]

I've loaded over 10K rds on a Lee Classic single stage press. That's all I have.
I seriously need to retool.
You might enjoy the simple addition of the Lee APP, a lot of utility for the $100.

[Jim Watson]

I will only be loading 9mm, with a very slight possibility of loading .357/.38 Special if I ever get back into revolvers.

Really?
If so, I will be the second to say it, Dillon Square Deal B.
Unique dies. So what?
Small footprint, self indexing.
I went from SDB to 550 and 1050. The 1050 is great, but now $2000. I do not consider the 550 to be an improvement over SDB for small primer pistol rounds.

[olstyn]

The nice thing about a single stage press is you learn the ins and outs of loading different cartridge's pretty fast without dealing with press issues. Those are great for new reloaders because each step is a very hands on separate operation. That can become mind numbing once you have the process down but I don't hear a lot of people saying it's a bad idea for a new reloader. It's just very time consuming but once you have the basics down you're probably ready for any number of high end progressive presses.

Speaking as someone who started out borrowing access to a single stage, it VERY QUICKLY becomes tedious and mind-numbing. Obviously individual results will vary, but I think I could have started out with a progressive.

I would suggest that just about anybody who has the necessary level of attention to detail to do any reloading at all could start out with a progressive. Just refrain from putting more than one case in the shell plate at a time while you're learning and you've effectively got a turret, which allows you to concentrate fully on each single step of the process without feeling like you have a need to upgrade equipment later.

[Jim Watson]

And yet people are adding steps that consume the time saved with a progressive.
They are processing bulk blasting ammo to a degree I reserve for target rifle loading.

[Borderland]

You might enjoy the simple addition of the Lee APP, a lot of utility for the $100.

If I move up it will probably be a progressive of some type. Thanks for the suggestion.

[DMF13]

Thanks for all the responses so far, I truly do appreciate it.

I’ll try to answer some of the questions/concerns raised:


Without knowing your mechanical ability . . .Regarding my mechanical ability, I’d say it’s decent. For example, once upon a time (when I didn't have children, and had more "free" time), I built a 1911 from a Caspian slide and frame, and also customized a Springfield GI 1911. Also, my engineering background, and USAF flying time, disciplined me to be fairly detail oriented, and to strictly follow procedure when required.

I believe we are missing two pieces of information: your budget, and how much time you intend to spend reloading.I'm a cheapskate, but I will trade treasure for truly better quality, and for a real savings in time. I know I need to start very slow, but would like to be able to work up to cranking out 400+ rounds an hour (not including de-priming and cleaning the brass). I'd plan on prepping the brass over one or two weekends, and then sitting down the following week for an hour or two to load up.


Also, I'm doing this for practical reasons, not because I will get any great enjoyment in the reloading itself.
I would honestly just buy ammo in bulk then. It'll probably be more expensive in the long run, but reloading rapidly gets out of hand.That's how I've been handling the situation until now, but a combination of wanting to load something that will mimic my carry rounds, at a fraction of the cost of the "real deal," and to deal with the periodic, but persistent, ammo shortages, along with a desire to put in more live fire, have driven me to want the ability to load my own.

Also, thanks for the detailed list of what’s needed. That’s a huge help.


The ABCs of Reloading is another good book that explains the reloading process well.Thanks, I’ll look for a copy.



With a progressive tool several of these steps take place at the same station (for example, the first station is size, deprime, prime), the 550 video shows this in a simple manner:
https://youtu.be/k0__OViMcaA
And I like this guy, and he goes into more detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACs8WW0Y2dU Thanks for those links.
. . . there a buttload of options. . . . you potentially face a confusing decision.You’re not kidding there. I had no idea there were so many options.

Thanks to you too, for your detailed list of necessary items.


You should probably have a caliper . . .I have a decent dial caliper, but I may want to get a digital one for speed and ease of use.

You are going to want some kind of cleaner . . .I’ve done some reading on that, and think I might want to use steel, and rock tumbler, like recommended here: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/steel-media-tumbling-cheap-guide/ My understanding is doing it that way will cut down on the dust. However, I’m open to hearing what might be a better way to go.


One wildcard consideration might be the Lee APP. . .I’ll add that to my list of options.


. . . auto-index . . . (five stations is a significant advantage, as it allows for using a bullet feeder *and* a powder check die, which, especially as I was getting used to loading on a progressive, I found comforting.Thanks. These are the kind of things I’m clueless about.


. . . going with a non-progressive press for 9mm is just miserable, speaking as someone who learned to reload on his father in law's single stage. Yes, it'll take a while to pay off the "investment" in a 5-station auto-indexing progressive, but it's likely where you'd end up in the end anyway. Buy once, cry once.I’m willing to suffer if necessary to get from point a to b, but I’ll skip the misery if it’s not required!


Chronograph - lots of options here from budget to expensive, but you can 100% get by with the budget options. IIRC I spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $125-150, including purchasing a tripod for it.Is that an absolutely necessary item, or just something needed if trying to load as light as possible for competition loads to meet "PF?"

If just loading 9mm, Dillon Square Deal. It s by far the most underappreciated press out there. I used to have three - 9, 40, 45 - and cranked out a lot of pistol ammo through them. I have 550s now because I do rifle.Definitely on my list of possibilities. Although, I’m a little leery of the fact it uses non-standard dies. I’m wondering what would happen if Dillon ever decided to stop making that press, and supporting parts for it. Maybe I’m overthinking that though.

At 400 rounds per month, that is less than one hundred rounds per week. I cannot suggest a progressive press for both a new reloader and that round count. I use a hand press for that quantity, but a turret press would be more the norm.I hear what you're saying, but I know how I am, and I'd rather prep the cases, and then sit down later to crank out a few hundred at a time, rather than 100 each week.
Due to dust and lead, my setups are in the outbuilding.I'm going to be using a one car garage. Unfortunately that's also my home gym, so I'm going need to be very careful about dust mitigation. Which is one of the reason I was considering the steel media cleaning, as my understanding is it cuts down the dust significantly. I would also do the cleaning of the cases outside in the backyard.
A sturdy bench and lots of storage are needed.That is not a problem at all. I will be building a very sturdy bench.


. . . Redding T7 . . .Thanks. That too will be added to my list of ones to research.

. . . auto-index progressive . . . Progressive presses are fine to learn on, but you have to take the time to learn . . .I will definitely go very slow to start. I'm a big believer in the "crawl, walk, run" philosophy of learning any new task.


Lee outdid themselves when they devised the Classic Cast Turret Press.Also, added to the research list.


I went with a Dillon Square Deal B and a their started kit which had: a scale/calipers/primer flip tray/adjustment wrench/a few replacements parts etc. . .

. . . In normal times . . . We are not in normal times.Amen to that, and the repeated comments about the SQB, from lots of you, will make me give it some very serious consideration.
In the end, IMHO, you will not "save" money reloading, you will simply spend more in the end because you will shoot more in the end.That would be fine. I'm a big believer in dry fire, but if I want to achieve my goals in shooting pistols, then I definitely need to increase my live fire too.


[QUOTE=Jim Watson;1137795]Really?Absolutely. While I have some ARs, my real interest in firearms almost exclusively handguns. I’m not a hunter, and I don’t see myself getting into 3 Gun. Other than shooting USPSA and/or IDPA with pistols, I might occasionally shoot PCC, if I felt the need to “play” with a long gun. So, I’d still only need 9mm.

If so, I will be the second to say it, Dillon Square Deal B.
Unique dies. So what?
Small footprint, self indexing.Definitely going to get some serious consideration.

. . . start out with a progressive. Just refrain from putting more than one case in the shell plate at a time while you're learning and you've effectively got a turret, which allows you to concentrate fully on each single step of the process without feeling like you have a need to upgrade equipment later.I didn't realize it was possible to treat them that way, but that sounds like it would fit into my plan of starting slow, but starting with equipment I can "grow into."

Again, thanks to all, I hope more info will be coming in. This sure will help me as I start doing my research, and planning things out.

[BehindBlueI's]

Speaking as someone who started out borrowing access to a single stage, it VERY QUICKLY becomes tedious and mind-numbing. Obviously individual results will vary, but I think I could have started out with a progressive.

Same, except I bought my first single stage. Still have it in the garage because reasons.

However, if you remove the indexing rod from a Lee turret...you've got yourself a single stage. So if you really want to learn on a single stage, you still have that option.

[olstyn]

Is that an absolutely necessary item, or just something needed if trying to load as light as possible for competition loads to meet "PF?"

Most competitors aren't actually chasing the lowest possible PF. The floor for "Minor" is 125 PF, and my current go-to load made 131 over my chronograph, and also 131 over the chronograph at the 2019 MN USPSA section match. Basically I'm looking for a load that is at least 130 PF so that I have a cushion in case the match chrono reads differently than mine, and which produces acceptable accuracy while running the gun well and not beating me or the gun up. I was once squadded with a guy whose ammo made 124.8 at a section match, which meant he was shooting not for score. Bad day for him.

Competition stuff aside, though, a chronograph really just gives you the luxury of actually knowing what results you're getting rather than guessing. It's really beneficial when you change components between things that sound like they should be the same but are actually different, like one 124 grain bullet to another 124 grain bullet from another company (different profiles = different seating depths = different velocity and accuracy results), or two different lot numbers of the same powder (could be the manufacturer adjusted the formulation and caused the velocity you get from a given charge weight to go up or down).

Ultimately, that was a long-winded way of saying that reloading is a detail-oriented activity and having a chronograph lets you know the details. You can get away with not having one, and I admit that I didn't have one at first, but I'd say it's one of the "nice to haves" that is pretty close to a "should have" unless you have a friend who'll let you shoot over theirs. (I'm happy to let people shoot over mine with the proviso that if they shoot the equipment, they just bought it.) Just my personal opinion, of course, but looking back, I wish a chrono had been part of my initial purchase of reloading stuff rather than being something I waited on - I'm pretty convinced that some of my early loads were close to being too hot, and if I'd had a chrono, I'd have actually known.

[Wise_A]

I'm a cheapskate, but I will trade treasure for truly better quality, and for a real savings in time. I know I need to start very slow, but would like to be able to work up to cranking out 400+ rounds an hour (not including de-priming and cleaning the brass). I'd plan on prepping the brass over one or two weekends, and then sitting down the following week for an hour or two to load up.
That's how I've been handling the situation until now, but a combination of wanting to load something that will mimic my carry rounds, at a fraction of the cost of the "real deal," and to deal with the periodic, but persistent, ammo shortages, along with a desire to put in more live fire, have driven me to want the ability to load my own.

Also, thanks for the detailed list of what’s needed. That’s a huge help.

NP. Those are non-bad reasons to reload. It's easier to store 25k primers and a couple keg-bottles of powder than it is to store 25k loaded rounds. Matching carry ammo is a decent goal, but can be frustrating depending on how exacting you want to be about felt recoil impulse, and what you're willing to spend on bullets (the price of plated bullets has varied wildly). But if you're willing to go to coated lead for bulk, and a pricier plated or jacketed bullet for "expensive but still less than factory", you could be very happy.

I will suggest that case processing needn't be its own thing. The advantage of the vibratory tumbler is that it's all pretty much pour-and-go. I leave my tumbler on a timer set to run for four hours once a day. I pour the tumbler into the media separator, dump the clean brass into a bin, pour the media back in, and add more dirty brass. Then I just leave. I come back the next day, and magically there's some clean brass and I repeat the process. Takes maybe 2-3 minutes a day, with one tumbler doing 150-200 pieces of 9mm at a go. If I needed more, I could either add another tumbler, or run twice a day. Oh, and if you're working with mixed range brass, shell sorting baskets and the optional metal .380 plate are worth every penny.

I think you're looking at the Dillon 750, personally. You can go pretty far with one, and the pricing isn't outrageous until you start adding in bullet- and case-feeders. What I will suggest is to factor in time for press maintenance and regular cleanup. If you get a Dillon, be aware you'll need to refill primer tubes as well.

[olstyn]

If you get a Dillon, be aware you'll need to refill primer tubes as well.

The Frankford Arsenal primer tube filler (https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/reloading-tools/priming-and-depriming-tools/primer-tools/vibra-prime/855712.html#start=1) is a huge time (and hand pain) saver for that. Worth every penny IMO.

[mmc45414]

Regarding my mechanical ability, ... built a 1911 ... engineering background ... USAF flying time
Yeah, you got this. It is really not that complex, just the consequences of goofing can be severe, like aviation.


I'm a cheapskate, but I will trade treasure for truly better quality, and for a real savings in time. I know I need to start very slow, but would like to be able to work up to cranking out 400+ rounds an hour
Racers say "speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" One thing maybe to consider is that you are not requiring that many rounds, but probably still want to minimize how long the task takes. And added features make it easier to go fast, but they also make it more relaxing. Also, like vehicle towing capacities, output tends to be overstated, so having a faster press can make it a walk in the park instead of a sprint to the finish. 400 rounds in an hour puts you into progressive territory, additional features would include:
Auto Indexing
I didn't think this was a big deal, until I had it. IMO it really helps keep a rhythm. It might make it harder to learn on, but not as hard as building a 1911.
Case Feeder
I didn't think this was a big deal, until I had it. Not taking your hand offa the handle probably doesn't seem like that big a deal, but taking it off the handle, then finding and orienting a case, then placing the case, then finding the handle again, while you are also finding, orienting, and placing the bullet, is a pretty big task load to eliminate.
Bullet Feeder
I have stopped short of this enhancement, but I have been tempted, those 115g round nose 9mm bullets are slippery little bastards...

With my press that indexes and has a case feeder I have timed myself as being able to load 100rds in 6-7min, but that is from the time I touched the handle until the buzzer says I need more primers, and that is not the total picture. From the time I turn on the shop lights until I have a can with 1k in it is gonna be a couple hours, not so far off of your target of 400rds/hr. I am also not going to feel like I just wrested a bear or something. And I also almost never thrash them out like that anyway, more like kicking out 2-400 while my wife watches something on TV I don't want to.

Also, I do not want to be That Guy that pushes what they have because they think they are so smart that everybody should do what they do, so I am trying to not make this brand specific, but my experience is mostly with the Dillon products. But some of the Lee stuff is really a strong value, and their new Pro 4000 indexes and has a case feeder and four stations and costs less than the Dillon case feeder! One thing though, the Lee Loadmaster seems too good to be true, and when I tried one I decided it was.

And olstyn mentioned loading one at a time on a progressive, that is absolutely true and good advice, and a Hornady advantage. Dillon's 650 didn't work well like that (it feeds primers on every stroke) but now that they evolved to their 750 it would work that way.


Although, I’m a little leery of the fact it uses non-standard dies. I’m wondering what would happen if Dillon ever decided to stop making that press, and supporting parts for it. Maybe I’m overthinking that though.
I would put this wayyyy down the list if things to worry about. They almost never end-of-life products, and in those rare occasions they continue to support them, and the dies are not likely to be what might break.

[SecondsCount]

I started off in the early 90s with a Lee Anniversary Kit that comes with the single stage press. The purchase of a Blackhawk in 45 Colt created a need for lower cost ammo.
After loading that for a couple months, I decided to try reloading 9mm and quickly found that a single stage couldn't keep up with the demand.

The problem is, you reload to save money, but quickly find out that you start shooting 2-3X more ammo. Reloading is probably the biggest contributor to improving my shooting.

Soon after I bought the anniversary kit, I got a bonus at work and bought a Dillon 550. It's a great progressive to learn on and you can reload both pistol and rifle on it. You can set it up just like a turret press or even a single stage and do one round at a time to start.

[Wise_A]

The Frankford Arsenal primer tube filler (https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/reloading-tools/priming-and-depriming-tools/primer-tools/vibra-prime/855712.html#start=1) is a huge time (and hand pain) saver for that. Worth every penny IMO.

As a treat to myself, I'm planning a major expansion to the reloading room. Among the other toys I've picked is a Double-Alpha primer tube filler.

[JohnO]

I purchased my Dillon 550 to load .45 ACP when a box of 50 Blazer Brass was $8.00 in Walmart. My entire reloading setup which included everything I needed plus powder and primers for 20,000 rounds and bullets for 10,000 rounds cost me $1600. Therefore I had a complete setup and materials to load 10K rounds plus primers and powder for another 10K for the cost of 10K of the cheapest ammo at the time. Brass I have never figured into the equation because I have a huge supply from years of collecting at training classes where it wasn't unusual to come home with a full 5 gallon bucket.

Greatest tip ever for a reloader who goes to training classes, bring a bucket for range cleanup. Folks cleaning up the spent cases who don't want the brass love to throw in in a bucket. You can easily multiply your pickup score 10 fold.

[olstyn]

As a treat to myself, I'm planning a major expansion to the reloading room. Among the other toys I've picked is a Double-Alpha primer tube filler.

I have no experience with that one, but if it works half as well as my Mini Mr. Bulletfeeder (also a Double-Alpha product), it'll be awesome, as it ought to be for that price! :)

[DMF13]

You guys weren't kidding about lots of options.

Luckily I've got some time to figure this out, but I'd like to be ready in case a good deal on something used pops up (although I know that's a huge longshot).

Hopefully I'm understanding what you guys have suggested already, and the other stuff I've read, and videos I've watched on YouTube.

While I'm still considering other options, I'm somewhat concentrating on the following three options:

1. A Lee Turret. Pros: A low initial cost, and seems like a good way to go slow enough to learn. Looks like, after learning how to do things, I could get up to 100-200 rounds an hour with one of those. Cons: I might quickly "outgrow" it, especially if I do end up shooting 400+ rounds a month. As for other turrets, they are so expensive it starts to put me close the price of something like the Dillon Square Deal.

2. Dillon Square Deal B. Pros: For an auto-indexing progressive it's relatively inexpensive, and since I won't be loading rifle rounds it's all I need. Looks like I could produce more than twice as much as I would on a turret. Cons: No ability to add a case feeder, and due to it only being a four station set up, and using proprietary dies, there is no way to use a Hornady "Powder Cop" or RCBS "Lockout" die.

3. Hornady Lock-N-Load AP. Auto-indexing, with 5 stations, so I can use the Powder Cop or Lockout. Can add a case feeder later., if I ever get into really high volume shooting and reloading. Cons: Starting to get very expensive relative (although less expensive than a Dillon XL750), and doesn't have the Dillon warranty.

Right now I don't think the Dillon 550C is for me. It doesn't auto-index, and it's a four station setup (meaning no Powder Cop or Lock Out). That makes me a little nervous to not have at least one of those features, as each one helps minimize the chance of a "double charge." Also, the price is about what the Hornady Lock-n-Load would be.

The XL750 is way out of my price range, unless I were to luck into a great deal on a used one. Which is highly unlikely.

[Wise_A]

Powder Checker / Lockout - For loading 9mm, you'll easily be able to see whether a case is charged, and even a charge-and-a-half will overflow with most reasonable powder-and-bullet selections. I think a lot of people use powder checkers as an excuse not to keep their eyes on the press, and to not perform basic safety checks like regularly verifying charge weights.

The Lee Turret is really nice to use. It's low-effort, and the fact that you're only working with a single case at a time makes it very smooth. It's also easy to pull a case and verify the powder charge. I still love mine, but I'm also loading quite a few cartridges that I don't shoot in big volumes. Maybe once you get into reloading, you'll find some guns that you find compelling now that you can produce your own ammo. 200 rounds an hour is really reaching for the stars--on that session (I hit 225, IIRC), I was churning out .38 Spl. I performed very few charge-weight checks (1 in 25, because it's a charge I've loaded thousands of times, on that particular powder measure, without a hitch--and I still verified my first 10). Not to mention I like to think I'm very fast at running that press. 100-125 is a lot more reasonable.

I think I was wrong to discourage you from the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. I find it quite high-effort to run, but I can't deny that it produces ammunition in good volumes. And you could always run it with one case in the shellplate at a time, making it a faux turret. The turret, on the other hand, will always be just a turret.The only caveat is that pulling a case to check the powder charge is a bit more complicated--you'd need to resize and prime, raise the shellplate slightly, open the little case retainer and remove the case, weigh the case and put it back in, close the case retainer, raise the shellplate to charge and expand, lower the shellplate, and then remove and weigh the case again before putting it back in. The handle has an annoying habit of not staying where you left it, as well, so you have to keep one hand on it the entire time. But for that, you get a decent auto-indexing progressive with a stupidly cheap case feeder and collator.

As to the Square Deal...well, just puttin' it out there, the 750 is another $200. But I can fully remember being a new reloader and not wanting to invest too heavily. Hell, it took my this long to pony up for one (although I kinda did go all-out) and I've been reloading for more than a decade.

[Hambo]

Luckily I've got some time to figure this out



Probably a lot more than you think.

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/

[MGW]

For what it’s worth I just spent a year using a square deal. I picked it up second hand. It’s an okay press. I don’t like that powder drop and priming is in the same station. I also don’t like how small the working area is. The SD is designed to load a decent amount of one caliber back to near factory specs. It does that pretty well. I just sold that press for exactly what I had in it and will be picking up a 550 or 750 soon. I learned how to reload in a 550 and really like that press. I’ve never once forgotten to index them shell plate. It’s reasonably priced. If you have enough pickup tubes 300 rounds an hour is pretty easy. I usually take a break after that anyway. The 550 is easy to set up, easy to adjust, and easy to change calibers on. I’ll never be high volume enough to need a bullet or case feeder. I think for most people the 550 is the way to go.

[Whirlwind06]

The fifth station sounds great, but I haven't seen a need for it yet. I stand at the press, so with the 550, Lee BLP, and Lee turret I can visually see the powder drop.
So like Wise_a said it's pretty hard to double change and spot-checking throw weights should eliminate undercharges.

At least on the Lee stuff, the case feeding isn't all that great. An upside-down case chews up the plastic, to the point where it has to be replaced.
Plus with 45 ACP, I'm looking for small primed brass so that I don't try to put an LPP into it.
With 9mm, I'm looking to sort out crimped brass to be processed later. Picking up each piece of brass seems to be the best way of doing that for me right now.

[foxj66]

3. Hornady Lock-N-Load AP. Auto-indexing, with 5 stations, so I can use the Powder Cop or Lockout. Can add a case feeder later., if I ever get into really high volume shooting and reloading. Cons: Starting to get very expensive relative (although less expensive than a Dillon XL750), and doesn't have the Dillon warranty.

Right now I don't think the Dillon 550C is for me. It doesn't auto-index, and it's a four station setup (meaning no Powder Cop or Lock Out). That makes me a little nervous to not have at least one of those features, as each one helps minimize the chance of a "double charge." Also, the price is about what the Hornady Lock-n-Load would be.\.

Removed the extra to focus on the two that I know the most about. The Lock N load is not near the press the Dillon machines are and I would strongly consider saving for a 750 if you feel you have to have the feature set. My dad uses a lock and load and I have loaded several thousand rounds on it, the press is far slower than the 550 without the case and bullet feeder and not much faster with as it just doesnt handle the cases as well as the dillon machines. I have personally owed the following: 550/650/1050. I still have the 550 and the 1050 with autodrive. If I didnt need to load 40k rounds a year of 9mm for competition I would probably just have a 550. Its best feature is how simple it is, while still being plenty fast. I could have a new loader running it at 400 rounds an hour in no time and making quality ammo. I firmly think its dillons best press.

I dont find the need for powder cop or lockout dies and do not use them, with the 550 you look in the case before you index and do it with your thumb before you set the bullet. If you somehow forgot to index there should be a bullet already seated on station 3. The best way to prevent mistakes is never leave the shell plate down and full and if you need to step away leave the shell plate up so you know exactly where its at. You will never outgrow a 550 and it will load any caliber you need. While set up how it should be is around 700 dollar thats nothing compared to current ammo cost. Always buy primers at least 5k at a time and pistol powder in 8lb jugs once you know what you need to keep cost down.

[SecondsCount]

Great advice foxj66, and I agree that everything about the 650/750 is nicer than the Hornady. There is a reason for the price difference.

[mmc45414]

As to the Square Deal...well, just puttin' it out there, the 750 is another $200.
Not to be picking nits, but the SDB comes with dies and the 750 does not.

But... everybody expects the 750 to be used with a case feeder, and it is, IMO, maybe priced kinda high. I know molds cost a ton, but dang Gina, the machine costs $650 and the feeder costs $300. But IMO using a 750 without a case feeder is not going to be significantly different than using a SDB or L&L without a case feeder. And if the day comes when you want a case feeder, all you gotta do is get a case feeder. The instructions show filling the tube, but I would just drop a single case in every cycle, just like you would be doing with any other press without a shell feeder.

[DMF13]

Probably a lot more than you think.

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/Well, I'm an optimist, tempered by a healthy dose of pragmatism.

I think it will be a while before some of the problems with ammo, both commercially available loaded ammunition, and components, including primers, get straightened out.

However, I think you will see some easing of demand if the Republicans hold the Senate (the GA runoffs will be interesting to say the least), along with some reduction in concern about COVID-19, due to the encouraging news about a vaccine.

However, maybe while I'm waiting out the supply woes that will give me some time to save up for some higher end equipment.

[DMF13]

I think a lot of people use powder checkers as an excuse not to keep their eyes on the press, and to not perform basic safety checks like regularly verifying charge weights.That's not what I'm looking for, but I'm definitely a "belt and suspenders" person when it comes to things that quite literally can blow up in my face. Especially since I have an AR-9, and shoot that lefty, so the ejection port, where any "kaboom" would be blasting out of, is right in front of my face.


As to the Square Deal...well, just puttin' it out there, the 750 is another $200.I hear you, but you left out the price of dies for the 750. Regardless, I'm going to have to sell this expense to the CFO (aka wife), and a 40-50% increase in initial cost will be a tough sell.

To ease the pain I'm thinking I can start buying some of the stuff I'll need as find deals. A tumbler, separator, scale, etc.

[DMF13]

The SD is designed to load a decent amount of one caliber back to near factory specs. It does that pretty well.Well, that's all I'm really trying to do. One (possibly two) 9mm load, for use in my pistols, and AR-9. However, as I read up on it, I do share the concern over the small workspace though.

[DMF13]

Several comments include mentions of a case feeder, and it seems like that's what is needed to really make something like the XL750 shine.

So I have a question. Why doesn't anyone offer anything other than a motorized case feeder? It seems to me that a lower cost, but effective option would be to have a manual loaded case feed tube, much like the primer tubes, as it seems once the motorized bin drops the cases in the tube it's all gravity, plus the mechanism at the bottom, that feed into the press.

For example, 9mm cases are .754" long, meaning a two foot tube could hold 31 cases. Seems you could manually load the tube every 30 rounds, and avoid the expense (and noise) of the motorized bin, but still have it be speedier than manually placing each cartridge case on the machine. Although admittedly not as fast as the motorized bin.

Is there something I'm missing on that idea?

[Wise_A]

Yes. Somebody made one.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mini-xl650-case-feeder

And they also made a similar product to feed bullets.

Lee's casefeeder/collator is the same setup--four plastic tubes, with a shallow dish at the top. Drop the cases in, swish the dish around, and most of them actually land bottom-down. Maybe 1 in 80 or 90 doesn't if you do it right. They also have a tube-fed bulletfeeder, which I have, but have never quite gotten around to installing on my Lee AB Pro because it feeds every time the shell plate is raised, instead of only when a case is present.

Other stuff--I'd also advise that the powder checker isn't fail-safe. It requires setting up and adjustment. I'd have a press light long before I worried about a powder check. But I totally get it. I remember being absolutely paranoid about double-charging or no-charging a cartridge. That was probably a really good mindset to have, because I made me develop discipline and good practices. The only squib I ever had was an aggressively-light charge under a 115-grain lead 9mm (and on a very muggy day. But it was simply a matter of not using enough powder.

Don't take any of the stuff I say as push-back. I honestly think you'll be happy with the Lee turret or ABP, or the Dillon SDB or 550. No matter where you end up, you'll always find a use for one of those presses. Maybe you'll get into it and find your needs and goals change. Maybe ammo prices get more realistic, and you'll decide that you're just going to make match and CCW training ammo and buy plinkers in bulk. That's perfectly reasonable, and pretty much everything but the Lee turret will be a huge waste for that sort of usage.


However, maybe while I'm waiting out the supply woes that will give me some time to save up for some higher end equipment.

Absolutely. I'm more or less hibernating myself--cleaning, organizing, planning a new bench, etc. Loading a very small amount of ammo, mostly 6.5CM for the rare occasions when I have time to go shoot.

[Hambo]

However, maybe while I'm waiting out the supply woes that will give me some time to save up for some higher end equipment.

You have time to read this, too. ;) It's an in depth look at which Dillon you really need, but you could extrapolate it to Hornady, Mark 7, etc

https://brianenos.com/dillon-2/

[JAD]

You have time to read this, too. ;) It's an in depth look at which Dillon you really need, but you could extrapolate it to Hornady, Mark 7, etc

https://brianenos.com/dillon-2/

That’s a great resource. It matches my experience: all you really need is a 550.

[Hambo]

That’s a great resource. It matches my experience: all you really need is a 550.

I read it every time I start to want a 650/750/1050/Mark7 to bring me back to reality. So far it's saved me thousands of dollars.

[DMF13]

You have time to read this, too. ;) It's an in depth look at which Dillon you really need, but you could extrapolate it to Hornady, Mark 7, etc

https://brianenos.com/dillon-2/
Thanks I've read it a couple of times. Reading that motivated me to start this thread, as before I saw that I had pretty much decided the Square Deal B was going to be the thing I needed. That, along with info saying I needed to start with a single stage or turret, and upgrade later, made me think I needed some more information, and needed to consider other options.

[DMF13]

Yes. Somebody made one.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mini-xl650-case-feeder

And they also made a similar product to feed bullets.That would be something I might consider after learning the process without it. I wish something like that were available for the SDB, 550, and Hornady Lock-N-Load AP.

Other stuff--I'd also advise that the powder checker isn't fail-safe. It requires setting up and adjustment. I'd have a press light long before I worried about a powder check. But I totally get it. I remember being absolutely paranoid about double-charging or no-charging a cartridge.Oh inderstand its not a failsafe, but youre spot on that I'm a little paranoid about double charges and squibs, and that would definitely add to my comfoet level.
Don't take any of the stuff I say as push-back.Same with my comments to you, and others. I'm not arguing, just discussing my thought process, to help find where any holes in my decision making might be.

Based on comments here, and discovering this: https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/daa-2-in-1-seating-and-crimping-die
after following your link to the manual case feeder, I've added the 550 back into consideration. As I understand it, that 2-in-1 die would allow me to use the Powder Cop or Lockout with the 550. I know that is a bit of OCD/paranoid concern, but concerns about safety is one of the reasons I haven't gotten into reloading earlier in life.

[mmc45414]

Yes. Somebody made one.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mini-xl650-case-feeder

Thanks for that!!
I have been screwing around using one feeder on two 650s, that is not so bad, but now I have been using it also on one of tge APPs. Maybe this for the 650 that stats setup for 9mm.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Trigger]

I’ll roll in with my perspective. Free, and that is what is what it is worth. I reload almost everything now. 5 pistol calibers (9,40,45,10mm,9x23) and at least 15 rifle calibers. Not much shotgun reloading, because the cost of factory ammo is very close to the cost of reloading.

I learned how to load metallic cartridge as a kid on a single stage press. When I started shooting league pistol (action pistol USPSA stuff) I bought a 650 with a casefeeder. I ran that for about 15 years. But the 650 is in many ways less flexible than the 550. Caliber changes take longer. Primer system was a lot less flexible (I think the 750 is better). When you screw something up on the 650 it takes longer to clear and fix than the 550. The 550 changes calibers much faster, and is more flexible. I eventually bought a 550 and found I liked it better than the 650. So I sold the 650 and moved to a Super1050. The swaging on the press is a huge advantage of the 1050, plus you prime on the upstroke, whereas on the 650/550 you load on the upstroke and prime on the downstroke. Would I recommend a 1050 to everyone? No. But when you need one due to volume or time or swaging, you will know it.

I think the 550 is a great press for those new to reloading. And you will never really outgrow it, as it is faster than a single stage, and much more flexible and faster to change. When I need to prep brass, just depriming, I can run the 550 with my left hand, and place the case with my right. Almost as fast as with a casefeeder. No need to remove cases as you would with a single stage press. When I need to neck-turn cases, I size in station 1 and neck expand in station 2. Fewer steps than running a single stage, easier to set up/configure than the 650. I reload all my precision rifle on a 550. Prep/size brass in one trip through the press, then clean primer pockets and hand prime. Fill with powder with an automated scale such as the Chargemaster. Second trip through the press to seat bullets in station 3. In Station 4 you can add a Redding Instant Indicator to check OAL consistency. It works on the shoulder of cases during sizing also, so you can check shoulder setback during sizing. David Tubb and John Whidden (and many others) load their ammo on a 550, if it is good enough for them, it will not hold me back.

I think at around the 100 case point, it is faster to use a 650/750/1050 than a 550. If you have several hundred to load, the bigger presses are faster, but they take more to set up and tune. Once I get a 1050 set up for 223 or 9mm, I leave it that way for months and load many thousand rounds. I can cheat and load 300Blk and 223 Ackley Improved on the 1050 when set up for 223, the changeover is not as involved. For PRS calibers like 6mmBR, 6x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, the 550 is very precise and quick.

Now the disadvantage of the 650/750/1050 for precision rifle is the powder measure and stick powder. Just not as precise as weighing every charge. But there some rifle powders out there that measure very well through the Dillon powder measure. Examples like H335, CFE223, 8208XBR, and the new 6.5 Staball. I use 8208 for my 223 Ackley, and out of the 1050 is shoots 1/2” groups at 100. I’ll take that for practice ammo on a 1050 that I can produce 100 rounds in 5-7 minutes! I have some 308 practice loads with Norma N203B/RL15 that also shoot very well. If/when I run out of H4350 for the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6x47 before this ammo demand period ends, I might just have to buy a couple 8 pounders of 6.5 Staball and load that on the 1050. See if I can get it to shoot and produce consistent velocities.

Bottom line, I recommend the 550 to you starting out. If you want more press, you can sell the 550 for almost no money lost. But my recommendation is to keep the 550 and augment it with a 750/1100.

[Wise_A]

Based on comments here, and discovering this: https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/daa-2-in-1-seating-and-crimping-die

Just so you're aware, most, if not all die manufacturers make a seat-and-crimp die. They're a little more fiddly to set up, and sometimes you have to play with them to avoid bullet shaving, but they do the job just as well as separate seat and crimp dies. They're handy for all sorts of stuff like that--for instance, maybe you want to use a Lyman "M" expander die, while still charging your cases on the press, but you only have four stations. That said, I think it's easiest just to start with dies made by the same manufacturer as your press, and match the powder dispenser to the press. There are lots of ways to make different things work together, but starting out, you're more likely to meet with success if you just get matching stuff. There's plenty of time to over-complicate simple shit later on.

I'm not sure if the DAA casefeeder actually works on the 550. I seem to remember someone talking about making modifications to use it on one, and I know that DAA was planning on rolling one out in the summer of 2019. I don't know if it ever got produced or if it can be made to work on the 550. I'd web-crawl and maybe call them up and ask. That design would be a perfect fit for the 550B and SDB, and really, for the way a lot of people use their 650/750. I'd have gone that route myself, but I found that when I use the tube-and-dish-type feeder on the Lee AB Pro, I was mostly dropping the cases directly into the tubes just to avoid the odd flipped case.

Anyways, with any of the presses mentioned, the trick is to only have your hand doing one thing per stroke, especially if you're manually indexing. For instance, on the 550, you could use a casefeeder, and have your hand bring up and seat a bullet, and then advance the stations in one movement. That's a lot of movement and hand-waving saved over having to bring a case and a bullet up.

The Lee AB Pro does sort of the same thing, except you do one thing every half a stroke: Lever goes down, you operate the primer feeder as the press seats a bullet. Lever goes up, your put a bullet in a case, while the press seats a primer.

An auto-indexing Lee turret is similar:

(1) Put a bare case in
(2) Up lever for resize and deprime, operate primer feeder
(3) Down lever, seats a primer. Reach into your box of bullets.
(4) Up lever, charge/expand. Pick up a bullet.
(5) Down lever, place the bullet.
(6) Up lever, seat the bullet.
(7) Down lever.
(8) Up lever, crimp.
(9) Down lever, remove the cartridge, retrieve and place a new case (keep your ammo box and jar of cases close to each other).

And yes, if you look at that, a three-station press with a combined seat-and-crimp die would be faster. Lee used to make one. You could just populate three stations and advance through the bare one, but you're still having to cycle the lever that fourth time, so it's still not as fast as a three-station would be, and also kind of uneven and janky--normal cycle, normal cycle, normal cycle, really-quick-yank-and-pump...normal cycle, normal cycle...Really breaks up the rhythm.

[olstyn]

And yes, if you look at that, a three-station press with a combined seat-and-crimp die would be faster. Lee used to make one. You could just populate three stations and advance through the bare one, but you're still having to cycle the lever that fourth time, so it's still not as fast as a three-station would be, and also kind of uneven and janky--normal cycle, normal cycle, normal cycle, really-quick-yank-and-pump...normal cycle, normal cycle...Really breaks up the rhythm.

That's only true with a turret, or if you're treating a progressive like a turret and cycling each case all the way around the plate before putting the next one in. A true progressive has essentially no speed difference with regard to how many stations exist or how many are populated except in terms of the fact that for any given run of production, a 5-station press will have one *total* pull of the handle more than a 4-station press. A theoretical 3-station progressive would take 302 pulls of the handle to produce 300 rounds, whereas a 4-station progressive would take 303, and a 5-station would take 304. A turret, OTOH, takes # stations * # rounds; 300 rounds takes 900 pulls on a theoretical 3-station or 1200 pulls on a 4-station, etc. Progressives save a lot of time vs turrets, and of course turrets save a fair bit of time (mostly in terms of smoothness of operations) vs single stage.

[TOTS]

Several comments include mentions of a case feeder, and it seems like that's what is needed to really make something like the XL750 shine.

So I have a question. Why doesn't anyone offer anything other than a motorized case feeder? It seems to me that a lower cost, but effective option would be to have a manual loaded case feed tube, much like the primer tubes, as it seems once the motorized bin drops the cases in the tube it's all gravity, plus the mechanism at the bottom, that feed into the press.

For example, 9mm cases are .754" long, meaning a two foot tube could hold 31 cases. Seems you could manually load the tube every 30 rounds, and avoid the expense (and noise) of the motorized bin, but still have it be speedier than manually placing each cartridge case on the machine. Although admittedly not as fast as the motorized bin.

Is there something I'm missing on that idea?

Just to continue what Wise_A said, the Lee case feeder and collator is adaptable to the 650/750. Google or YouTube searches will bring up information.

[Wise_A]

That's only true with a turret

Yes. That is to what I am referring. To be more precise, it's only true with auto-indexing turrets. Athlough to be quite honest, I've never used the Lyman or Redding Turret Presses Of Many Stations.

[DMF13]

Holy crap you guys weren't kidding about all the choices.

I've also found it's a slippery slope with the choices on presses. A Lee Turret is just a couple hundred away from a Square Deal, which is just a couple hundred away from a 550 or Lock-N-Load AP, which is just a couple hundred away from a 750.

By the way, is there any trick to quickly/easily separating out 9mm from 5.56mm brass? Last week my fairy godmother brought me a nearly full 5 gallon bucket of once fired brass, but it's an even mix of 5.56mm and 9mm.

[Whirlwind06]

There are case sorters available.
https://www.dillonprecision.com/shell-sorter_8_8_25434.html
It appears that 9mm and .223/5.56 are very close in size though.

[EricP]

I have that Dillon sorting tray system. It doesn’t separate .380, 9mm, 5.56, 300 Blk or anything else in that diameter range.

[mmc45414]

The sorting system for 9mm and 223 is probably a six pack and a comfy stool.

Just be glad it is not mixed with a bunch of forty, they get nested inside each other.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Wise_A]

If you want to easily sort 9mm and .223/5.56 brass, it's simple. Get a pair of nitrile gloves. Now take the gloves, and put them on a child. Give the child a small amount of American currency, and point at the bucket.

On a serious note, I'll check later to see if my Shell Sorter 3-pack with the metal .380 plate sorts 9 from .223.

[olstyn]

Just be glad it is not mixed with a bunch of forty, they get nested inside each other.

9mm and .40 getting mixed together inside a vibratory tumbler is extra annoying - they get nested inside each other, and the media gets trapped in between, making them both gritty and dirty to pull apart...

[mmc45414]

9mm and .40 getting mixed together inside a vibratory tumbler is extra annoying - they get nested inside each other, and the media gets trapped in between, making them both gritty and dirty to pull apart...
Yup, and I am to the point of having enough brass that if they don't just come loose I toss them both.

[DMF13]

. . . a child. . . My understanding is that accessory is very expensive, both in acquisition costs, and maintenance costs.

[olstyn]

My understanding is that accessory is very expensive, both in acquisition costs, and maintenance costs.

There's a way around that - be an uncle/aunt. Then you can *borrow* a child. :)

[DMF13]

There's a way around that - be an uncle/aunt. Then you can *borrow* a child. :):D I was just being funny, I actually two kids, but my wife is acutely aware of the lead/zinc dangers ammo presents, and if I want to stay married they won't be processing dirty brass.

[olstyn]

:D I was just being funny, I actually two kids, but my wife is acutely aware of the lead/zinc dangers ammo presents, and if I want to stay married they won't be processing dirty brass.

100% on the same page with you there, and I was joking as well. Even if I actually wanted to subject nieces/nephews to the mindless tedium of sorting brass, I wouldn't do it simply for the lead exposure reason. I couldn't trust them not to put their hands in their mouths/on their faces/etc., even assuming I had kid-sized nitrile gloves on hand.

Teenagers who like to shoot and are able to comprehend the safety considerations might be another story, though. I'll take you to the range/a match *if* you help with ammo production, that sort of thing.

[DMF13]

I also want to thank everyone for trying to help.

I don't know if they would want to be named, but two members messaged me, to provide advice. One sent multiple messages with advice, and even offered to have me visit and see his setup in action, but unfortunately he's not local to me. The other actually called me on the phone, and spent about an hour and a half providing advice, answering my questions (often stupid questions!), and putting my mind at ease about both the safety aspects of reloading, and about trying to decide what to buy. I especially want to thank those guys for their generosity, both in sharing their knowledge and time with me.

For a bunch of semi-anonymous folks on the internet, you all are good people!

[DMF13]

100% on the same page with you there, and I was joking as well. Even if I actually wanted to subject nieces/nephews to the mindless tedium of sorting brass, I wouldn't do it simply for the lead exposure reason. I couldn't trust them not to put their hands in their mouths/on their faces/etc., even assuming I had kid-sized nitrile gloves on hand.

Teenagers who like to shoot and are able to comprehend the safety considerations might be another story, though. I'll take you to the range/a match *if* you help with ammo production, that sort of thing.Yeah times have changed. When I was a kid my Dad didn't hunt or shoot, but my Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster did. At age 10 the price of learning to shoot was sorting shotgun shells for reloading, and helping them cast lead bullets for .38 Spl and .357 Mag. I even remember at that age being sent out to walk to a local store and buy powder. Could you image if a kid in grade school went to a store today, and tried to buy a couple pounds of smokeless powder?

[DMF13]

Well, it's a year later, and components are still hard to come by, so I haven't bought a press.

I've got a FART Lite, and a brass dryer, and now have close to 8K rounds of cleaned once fired 9mm brass. (That haven't been de-primed).

I've also got a digital scale, some reloading manuals, and an Inline Fabrication flush fit QD plate.

My top choice now is a Dillon Square Deal B, but I'm also still considering a Hornady Lock-n-Load AP. I learned a few months ago that my next door neighbor has one, and has loaded 9mm, .45ACP, and .223 on it for a few years. He can help get it all set up, and show me the ropes, if I decide to go that route.

I've been watching ebay for a used SDB, but usually they aren't in 9mm, and often the winning bid is very near the price of a new one. So even if it is a 9mm setup, I'm not saving much over new, and taking the risk that it has problems. With those that aren't 9mm already, the cost of the conversion kit, means I'd save money just buying new.

I'll keep looking for a used bargain, and may even need to break down and go to a gunshow (:rolleyes:), but once the supply of components starts to come back to something close to normal, I may just buy new.

[Hambo]

Well, it's a year later, and components are still hard to come by, so I haven't bought a press.


There were a lot of Black Friday sales, and some are still running.

[Jim Watson]

If I were loading nothing but 9mm, I would feel well equipped with a SDB, I did so at one time.
It broke twice and was rebuilt under warranty. The second rebuild was beefed up, they were paying attention.

I even got a SDB for large primers and .45 ACP but found that it lacked leverage to seat primers in .45 ACP so I splurged on a Super 1050. I was shooting a lot of .45s at the time and figure I amortized the big machine in six years.

Circumstances led me to a 550 for 9mm which is more flexible and I can shift to .38 Special and .45 Small primer without much fuss. I even loaded .44-40 on it while shooting CAS, with a complete primer feed for large primers.
But it is no better than the SDB left in one caliber.

The case feeder on the 1050 is good but I don't feel a need to add one to the 550. Nor a bullet feeder or motor drive.

I do have some other brand dies, something not feasible on SDB. When I was loading on SDB I found no need for undersize sizing die or carbide factory crimp die, and I just cussed the Dillon idea of a seating die when I changed OAL or bullet shape.

[Borderland]

The sorting system for 9mm and 223 is probably a six pack and a comfy stool.

Just be glad it is not mixed with a bunch of forty, they get nested inside each other.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

9mm and 45 ACP like each other also.