View Full Version : Current P220s
I’m not a fan of Sig as a company right now but does anyone have any experience with recent Sig P220’s? Are they good to go or are they suffering QA/QC issues too?
I’ve been looking at lightweight 1911’s but I’ve been on a nostalgia kick lately. 25 years ago I bought a P220 as an early wedding gift to myself. I’m kicking around buying another one.
I’m not a fan of Sig as a company right now but does anyone have any experience with recent Sig P220’s? Are they good to go or are they suffering QA/QC issues too?
I’ve been looking at lightweight 1911’s but I’ve been on a nostalgia kick lately. 25 years ago I bought a P220 as an early wedding gift to myself. I’m kicking around buying another one.
If you want a P220, find an old one, pre-2006.
With the exception of some of the $2k German-made custom guns, the current production "Classic" SIG's feel like cheap knockoffs of the excellent originals.
There are so many nice old SIGs out there that there is absolutely no reason to suffer the junk they're producing now.
JimLob65
11-02-2020, 05:12 AM
I own a P220 Elite SAO in 10mm and other than an issue with the rear sight it has been rock solid, as has both of the P226s I own, an Elite RX SAO and a Legion SAO in 9mm, both of which are very accurate and have great triggers.
All have been purchased in the past few years.
BehindBlueI's
11-02-2020, 06:14 AM
I've got three short extractor P220s, all TDA .45's. I don't think any top 20k rounds on them but none have been an issue. The only P220 I've routinely heard of as having an issue was the internal extractor stainless models.
If you want a P220, find an old one, pre-2006.
With the exception of some of the $2k German-made custom guns, the current production "Classic" SIG's feel like cheap knockoffs of the excellent originals.
There are so many nice old SIGs out there that there is absolutely no reason to suffer the junk they're producing now.
I would really like to move on to an external extractor slide on this one.
A few months back I was surprised to see the P220 Nitron was discontinued https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p220-nitron-full-size.html
though the Legion models were still available.
However, when I went to get the above link, I found they now offer a P220 Nightmare https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p220-nightmare.html
I guess it gives you the Nitron with more bling.
I've got three short extractor P220s, all TDA .45's. I don't think any top 20k rounds on them but none have been an issue. The only P220 I've routinely heard of as having an issue was the internal extractor stainless models.
Does the current P220 Nitron have a short extractor? I haven’t really paid attention to changes to the 220 line. I don’t know if they changed to long extractors like they did on the 229 or not.
Does the current P220 Nitron have a short extractor? I haven’t really paid attention to changes to the 220 line. I don’t know if they changed to long extractors like they did on the 229 or not.
The Nitron is still on the website so I don’t know if it’s really gone or not. The nightmare is a very recent addition. I hate Sig thin triggers.
BehindBlueI's
11-02-2020, 07:27 AM
Does the current P220 Nitron have a short extractor? I haven’t really paid attention to changes to the 220 line. I don’t know if they changed to long extractors like they did on the 229 or not.
I don't think there is a current Nitron. The Legion was the last P220 being produced, although based on the poster above you I went to the catalog and they do have a "Nightmare" now. I've never seen a long extractor P220, but since it's Sig I won't swear there isn't one out there somewhere.
The Nitron is still on the website so I don’t know if it’s really gone or not. The nightmare is a very recent addition. I hate Sig thin triggers.
It is, but note the little graphic above the photo that reads "discontinued".
If you want a P220, find an old one, pre-2006.
With the exception of some of the $2k German-made custom guns, the current production "Classic" SIG's feel like cheap knockoffs of the excellent originals.
There are so many nice old SIGs out there that there is absolutely no reason to suffer the junk they're producing now.
Yeah.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/7320040262
Looks like for the 220s if you find one with a serial number around G-386-xxx or earlier you're into pre-Cohen territory. I haven't checked gunbroker lately but when I was looking for a pre-Cohen 226 that list came in handy. There were a surprising number of basically NIB examples, though I don't know how true that is now with covid/riot/election season in full swing.
I don't think there is a current Nitron.
It is, but note the little graphic above the photo that reads "discontinued".
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1800x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/d/i/discon567.jpg
claymore504
11-02-2020, 09:31 AM
I would lok for used or new and go with it. I know the Nightmare models just got released, so not sure how available they are.
https://youtu.be/K5Jv_2zZxlc
Gadfly
11-02-2020, 09:46 AM
I actually had a German p220, mid 90s mfg, with a cardboard box and red velvety interior. I liked it, it was accurate, but I never loved it. Traded it for a 229 so I could run the issues .40 I had stocked up.
Always had an itch for the 227, but I guess that never really ran right or sold, because the seem to have dropped off the map.
BehindBlueI's
11-02-2020, 09:51 AM
Always had an itch for the 227, but I guess that never really ran right or sold, because the seem to have dropped off the map.
Ran fine, at least with the 10 round mags, as far as I know. I just don't think the market was interested in a double stack .45. Our state police issue them still, as far as I know. I had one and it was fine, but I ended up trading it for an Elite P220. I just have so many mags, etc. for the P220 already that the 2 extra rounds didn't make the extra logistics required worth it to me. They fit P220/P226 holsters, but the magazines wouldn't fit mag pouches/holders for either.
HeavyDuty
11-02-2020, 09:51 AM
I personally am major league turned off by the “Nightmare” appellation. It’s like putting Punisher emblems on your Glock’s backplate...
TheNewbie
11-02-2020, 11:25 AM
I personally am major league turned off by the “Nightmare” appellation. It’s like putting Punisher emblems on your Glock’s backplate...
Exactly. It’s stupid. It sounds stupid, it is stupid.
A reliable P220 DAK would be a gun that I would carry. Those days are gone.
OfficeCat
11-02-2020, 12:09 PM
Yeah.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/7320040262
Looks like for the 220s if you find one with a serial number around G-386-xxx or earlier you're into pre-Cohen territory. I haven't checked gunbroker lately but when I was looking for a pre-Cohen 226 that list came in handy. There were a surprising number of basically NIB examples, though I don't know how true that is now with covid/riot/election season in full swing.
Thanks for that link with the serial number and date information. I picked up a near-mint condition internal extractor, stamped slide P220 earlier this year, "Made in Germany" but no German proofs so finished in the US, and I knew it was probably made somewhere close to the start of the Cohen era but I hadn't been able to pin down a date. Now I can rest assured it was made at least a year, maybe two, before Cohen took over. I'd still like to have those German proofs, but I got such a good deal on it and it's in such beautiful condition that I really can't complain.
This is an early 2000's non-proofed P220 I foolishly traded away (like all the other P220's I've owned).
I would look for one similar:
https://i.imgur.com/ENyFzFPl.png
It's a stamped steel slide with an internal extractor. To my knowledge, most of this variety are good-to-go. They even made a few with the rail right around 2005/2006 before they switched to the stainless slide.
I shared it elsewhere on this forum, but a local department that issued and only allowed officers to carry P220's and P245's went to "upgrade" their mostly mid-1990's guns about ten years ago to new P220's. The new guns they received had to all be replaced, and then all replaced again, before they dumped SIG and went to Glocks. SIG's are no longer even authorized by them.
This is an early 2000's non-proofed P220 I foolishly traded away (like all the other P220's I've owned).
I would look for one similar:
https://i.imgur.com/ENyFzFPl.png
It's a stamped steel slide with an internal extractor. To my knowledge, most of this variety are good-to-go. They even made a few with the rail right around 2005/2006 before they switched to the stainless slide.
I shared it elsewhere on this forum, but a local department that issued and only allowed officers to carry P220's and P245's went to "upgrade" their mostly mid-1990's guns about ten years ago to new P220's. The new guns they received had to all be replaced, and then all replaced again, before they dumped SIG and went to Glocks. SIG's are no longer even authorized by them.
I've traded away several 220's myself. All of them were German proof mark guns. I'm not that bright.
Any idea what was wrong with the new P220's that had to be replaced?
My local FFL friend has two 227's for sale and a special configuration 220 Carry. 227's just didn't have the same magic for me that the 220 had. I like the feel of the 220 carry he has plus it's a two-tone. I have zero experience with the carry model though. I hate to buy it not knowing if I'll like it or not.
CT State Police have issued P220s for a few years. @austinmillbarge would have more info, I believe he said the pistols have run fine but the magazines were spotty.
CT State Police have issued P220s for a few years. @austinmillbarge would have more info, I believe he said the pistols have run fine but the magazines were spotty.
That would be a concern, since unlike the 1911 world, there aren't a lot of options for P220 mags.
Any idea what was wrong with the new P220's that had to be replaced?
If memory serves it was primarily related to the takedown lever and a separate issue with the magazine release being out of spec.
BehindBlueI's
11-02-2020, 05:17 PM
That would be a concern, since unlike the 1911 world, there aren't a lot of options for P220 mags.
I've never had an issue with OEM 8 rounders.
OlongJohnson
11-02-2020, 08:11 PM
Everything I've ever read about the OE P220-1 eight round mags is that they are uber-reliable. Kind of a nice counterpoint to the 1911 world - you know what mags to buy, period.
Leroy
11-02-2020, 08:21 PM
I would recommend an Elite or Legion for the checkered frontstrap and extended beavertail. The regular P220 kinda sucks without those.
Austin Millbarge
11-03-2020, 06:48 PM
We have 1200 or so P220’s. The mags were an issue since day one. Base plates falling off, because the lips on the bottom of the magazine body weren’t bent at the correct angle. We swapped out about 5000 mags at least three times attempting to eliminate the problem.
They seem to be working fine now, but there was a time when they failed legitimately all day long during training.
The mag body needs to be longer and come all the way to the base plate. The design is shit in my opinion. Easily fixed by making the mag body reach the base plate.
Austin Millbarge
11-03-2020, 06:49 PM
The mags fed reliably, they just fell apart or the base plates flew off on a regular basis for a few years.
The guns themselves have been pretty bulletproof. Small issues here and there. Nothing widespread.
OlongJohnson
11-03-2020, 07:11 PM
Appropriate place to relate this tale.
I've been working with the USPc9 a bit. Trying to slick up the trigger and get the DA decent. Was kinda thinking I'd made progress. Took a P220 along to the range today just because .45. After I'd done my work with the USP, I loaded up a mag for the Sig. First shot in the X ring. Second shot in the X ring. Third shot in the X ring. The trigger is smooth, clean, no stacking, just right. Dang, I like this gun. And it's slim... It's a short external extractor milled slide. One of my better purchases, all things considered.
Think I'm giving up on USP DA. Will be LEM-Match before I burn any more precious powder in it.
Appropriate place to relate this tale.
I've been working with the USPc9 a bit. Trying to slick up the trigger and get the DA decent. Was kinda thinking I'd made progress. Took a P220 along to the range today just because .45. After I'd done my work with the USP, I loaded up a mag for the Sig. First shot in the X ring. Second shot in the X ring. Third shot in the X ring. The trigger is smooth, clean, no stacking, just right. Dang, I like this gun. And it's slim... It's a short external extractor milled slide. One of my better purchases, all things considered.
Think I'm giving up on USP DA. Will be LEM-Match before I burn any more precious powder in it.
I can relate to this. For me the P220 is a joy to shoot and silly accurate. As long as it doesn’t have a short reach trigger.
We have 1200 or so P220’s. The mags were an issue since day one. Base plates falling off, because the lips on the bottom of the magazine body weren’t bent at the correct angle. We swapped out about 5000 mags at least three times attempting to eliminate the problem.
They seem to be working fine now, but there was a time when they failed legitimately all day long during training.
The mag body needs to be longer and come all the way to the base plate. The design is shit in my opinion. Easily fixed by making the mag body reach the base plate.
That’s a lot of Sigs. Are you issuing 8 round magazines? Did you test 7 or 10 round magazines? When were they failing? I assume after dropped on concrete but maybe not. None of this makes a bad magazine issue any better I’m just curious.
jd950
11-04-2020, 06:34 AM
The mags fed reliably, they just fell apart or the base plates flew off on a regular basis for a few years.
The guns themselves have been pretty bulletproof. Small issues here and there. Nothing widespread.
This is the first I have heard of this. Not saying I doubt you...I don't, but I never heard of this. Were these the typical stainless mags with the thick plastic baseplate and marked p220-1?
FWIW, I tend to think the bad rep of recent sigs is a bit overstated. I don't doubt that quality control suffered in recent years, and there have been stupid marketing decisions, but I have had few problems and law enforcement agencies have seemed generally happy with their P229, P226 and P220 pistols, despite Sig's cost-cutting. I can also recall S&W revolver problems, S&W 3rd gen alloy frame pistols cracking, Glock Kabooms, Glock 22s that would not function with weapon lights, Glock ejection and extractor problems, Beretta sights coming loose and 96 frame fatigue, Walther P5 cracked frames, etc., etc. I can't really see much difference in my early sigs and my recent ones.
Austin Millbarge
11-04-2020, 06:52 AM
8 round mags. Stainless with plastic base. The issues have mostly gone away in the latest batch of mags. The first three batches all had the failures. They always functioned fine, just the base plates would fall off.
We tried a couple other brands and none performed reliably.
This is the first I have heard of this. Not saying I doubt you...I don't, but I never heard of this. Were these the typical stainless mags with the thick plastic baseplate and marked p220-1?
FWIW, I tend to think the bad rep of recent sigs is a bit overstated. I don't doubt that quality control suffered in recent years, and there have been stupid marketing decisions, but I have had few problems and law enforcement agencies have seemed generally happy with their P229, P226 and P220 pistols, despite Sig's cost-cutting. I can also recall S&W revolver problems, S&W 3rd gen alloy frame pistols cracking, Glock Kabooms, Glock 22s that would not function with weapon lights, Glock ejection and extractor problems, Beretta sights coming loose and 96 frame fatigue, Walther P5 cracked frames, etc., etc. I can't really see much difference in my early sigs and my recent ones.
Law enforcement issues with classic series Sigs have been well documented on PF. I don’t want to rehash 226 and 229 issues. I’m only interested in recent 220 reliability.
jd950
11-04-2020, 07:46 AM
Law enforcement issues with classic series Sigs have been well documented on PF. I don’t want to rehash 226 and 229 issues. I’m only interested in recent 220 reliability.
Ok. I have not had any notable problems with the P220, including the one I bought new in about 94 or several I have added since, of various vintages. None are particularly high-round-count guns, so maybe that does not help.
corneileous
11-04-2020, 08:44 AM
I haven’t put a whole lot of rounds through it since I’ve had it brand new- maybe 200 but my P220 10mm Elite’s been absolutely wonderful. Other than the fact that it’s SAO, it’s one of my favorite pistols. Since it’s not DA/SA like all but one of my other pistols, the only time it gets carried is for woods carry against four-legged predators. It stays loaded with
180g Sig V-crown hollow-points and out in the woods it’s loaded with 220g Underwood hard casts. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201104/a44922f4291f8c08e296c9853f508852.jpg
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