Laws Banning Militias

[Dog Guy]

So this gem appeared in the local paper from an allegedly non-partisan but actually far left organization in Nevada: https://www.rgj.com/story/opinion/voices/2020/10/20/officials-must-enforce-nevada-laws-private-militias-shafton/5993946002/ . Essentially the writer calls on the government to prosecute those who are members of any sort of militia other than the state National Guard, and cites several statutes that prohibit such militias.

Now, there are a lot of rabbit holes to go down in this piece, and some blatantly absurd leaps of logic. For example their assertion that the State Constitution specifically prohibits militias is based on this section:
Sec. 11.  Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
1.  Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
2.  The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.
They twist this to be a ban on militias.

They say that NRS 197.120 provides that anyone who exercises the duties of a “public officer ... without having qualified therefor ... shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.” This statute disqualifies the claims by illegal militias to be legally putting themselves forward with weapons to defend property which is not their own. Contrary to the claims of many armed militias, nothing in the law allows them to usurp that function of law enforcement officers." Taking this to it's ultimate conclusion would make any assistance to protect a friend or family member by a non-LE officer illegal, so...

They rely quite a bit on this from Georgetown Law: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwipkv6LodjsAhXQl54KHSfwDvMQFjABegQIChAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.georgetown.edu%2Ficap%2F wp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F32%2F2020%2F09%2FNevad a.pdf&usg=AOvVaw378s6H8TiMM5xP8eKMIrcp . This document tells how to recognize a militia, how to report their activity, and includes "These groups often engage in behaviors that show their intent to act as a private militia, such as wearing military-style uniforms, tactical gear, or identifying insignia; wielding firearms or other weapons; and operating within a coordinated command structure. Other factors—such as statements by leaders or members’ efforts to direct the actions of others—also may suggest that a group is acting as a private militia. Groups of armed individuals may engage in unauthorized militia activity even if they do not consider themselves to be “members” of a paramilitary organization."

Some of the statutes mentioned do ban any militia not specifically authorized by the Governor. This got me to wondering: do other states have similar statutes and if so, how widespread are they?

[Bart Carter]

...Taking this to it's ultimate conclusion would make any assistance to protect a friend or family member by a non-LE officer illegal, so...

Actually, in Nevada you can use deadly force in the event you have fear of death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

[Dog Guy]

Actually, in Nevada you can use deadly force in the event you have fear of death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

Understood. That was just an example of how far off base their argument is. They would need to apply their principle to any and all actions which could be construed as being the job of a public official.

[KellyinAvon]

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials.--George Mason

[Zincwarrior]

They could apply antiKlan laws to militias and similar efforts. I expect that will ramp up in 2021.

[willie]

Seeing a member profile of militia groups would be interesting. I wonder how many are nuts?

[DrkBlue]

There is historical precedent to banning militias and related activity.

+ The maintenance of a militia outside of state authority was part of the persecution of the Latter Day Saints in Illinois and presumably Missouri (Not looking for a theological discussion/I’m non LDS)

+ John Brown and his various iterations of violent anti-slavery forces organized a series of training camps in numerous northern states during the 1850s, leading to open warfare in the Kansas Territory

+ Chinese residents in the US organized militia like groups opposed to the Qing Dynasty in the late 1800s, training as organized units for an overthrow of a foreign government

+ The oft referred to National Guard founding came through a series of federal legislative changes and related state actions that evolved the rather unorganized volunteer/state-funded militias into a more nationally-funded and regulated model following the 1898 Spanish American War

The more liberal and oft-never-ever-served seem to get all exercised about voluntary militia activity. My general assessment is 90% Poser, 10% Good Intentions but poor execution.

I think this is the updated Georgetown report that gets panties in a bunch about the second coming of Horst Wessel:
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2018/04/Prohibiting-Private-Armies-at-Public-Rallies.pdf

[DrkBlue]

Seeing a member profile of militia groups would be interesting. I wonder how many are nuts?

Not endorsing this report, but may scratch the itch... and is open source.

October 17, 2020 joint report from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED) and MilitiaWatch, states right-wing domestic extremist groups are a “serious threat to the safety and security of American voters.” It describes 2020 included protest activity (which also includes armed protests), kidnapping plots targeting elected State officials, and discussions of targeting critical infrastructure.

The report, which analyzed federal government investigations of right-wing domestic extremist groups, assessed that several states are “at highest risk of increased militia activity in the election and post-election period”. Georgia, Michigan, Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin were identified as having the “highest risk of increased militia activity in the election and post-election period,” and California, North Carolina, New Mexico, Texas, and Virginia as being identified as having moderate risk.
https://acleddata.com/acleddatanew/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ACLED_MilitiaWatch_StandingBy_MilitiaElection_2020 _Final.pdf

62396

[Joe in PNG]

Seeing a member profile of militia groups would be interesting. I wonder how many are nuts?

Forget the nuts, I wonder how many are undercover FBI.

[peterb]

They’re going to have to ban a lot of people.....

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

[LittleLebowski]

Yup, expect more of this with Biden/Harris. Anything right wing will be labeled “white supremacist”.

[Lost River]

Forget the nuts, I wonder how many are undercover FBI.

Not just FBI.

ATF, and others. I have gone to joint task force briefings and the crap that was spewed from agents from elsewhere about right wing militias, and the sort, you would think that there were armed bands of lunatics roaming every single small town in the west. It was if they were creating a problem to have a problem to combat.

In one briefing not long after 9-11, a fellow lawman and I were listening to a guy from back east talk about heavily armed extremists owning X amount of guns and X amount of ammo + food. The officer leaned over and commented something to the effect of " that sounds like most state troopers in the region". :rolleyes:

I seriously question many things on the federal level these days. Being that we have seen federal agents use confidential informants as provocateurs to aid/guide/push people into planning “terror plots”, to get their desired results, then rush in and "save the day", foiling the plot and being the heroes, justifying bigger budgets and more intrusive methods of overwatch intelligence gathering, etc. These are all just some of the reasons I seriously question narratives I am being fed these days.



While there are many outstanding and honorable lawmen who work within those agencies, there are plenty (as we know) who will do what it takes to climb the ladder and be company men. Unfortunately that is not limited to the federal side either. It is simply human nature to some degree. I am glad to see some of my fed friends finally make it to retirement. The last few years was rough for a number of them, and listening to them discuss the changes that have taken place during the course of their careers does not bode well for the future.

[TGS]

Some interesting comments in the thread just far. I'd like to insert that 1) the laws being discussed are all state-driven, not federal, 2) the federal government is explicitly forbidden from "banning" groups of people, and 3) in another thread, the most vocal opposition to a perceived government overreach are 4 federal agents, and the only people cool with it are.....not federal agents.


Yup, expect more of this with Biden/Harris. Anything right wing will be labeled “white supremacist”.

And under the reform you're in favor of, an FBI Supervisory Special Agent who pipes up, "Hey these people aren't a threat, they're simply at opposition with the government's stance on XYZ so we're closing the investigation" could promptly be fired.

[JohnO]

October 17, 2020 joint report from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED) and MilitiaWatch, states right-wing domestic extremist groups are a “serious threat to the safety and security of American voters.”

How about Left-Wing domestic extremist groups?

https://srastatic.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/web/img/theme/header.png
https://socialistra.org/
https://twitter.com/sne_sra

Also:
Redneck Revolt and John Brown Gun Club
http://rijohnbrowngun.club/
https://twitter.com/rijbgc

Indigenous Anarchist Federation
https://iaf-fai.org/2020/09/26/skills-for-revolutionary-survival-4-primary-firearms/

[Hambo]

Some interesting comments in the thread just far. I'd like to insert that 1) the laws being discussed are all state-driven, not federal, 2) the federal government is explicitly forbidden from "banning" groups of people, and 3) in another thread, the most vocal opposition to a perceived government overreach are 4 federal agents, and the only people cool with it are.....not federal agents.

And under the reform you're in favor of, an FBI Supervisory Special Agent who pipes up, "Hey these people aren't a threat, they're simply at opposition with the government's stance on XYZ so we're closing the investigation" could promptly be fired.

There you go again with facts...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg803LS_HzQ

[Totem Polar]

Not endorsing this report, but may scratch the itch... and is open source.

October 17, 2020 joint report from the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED) and MilitiaWatch, states right-wing domestic extremist groups are a “serious threat to the safety and security of American voters.” It describes 2020 included protest activity (which also includes armed protests), kidnapping plots targeting elected State officials, and discussions of targeting critical infrastructure.


62396

I see that it didn’t take long for Glover’s effort to get lumped in with the motley crowd.

Many on this very forum have observed that it wouldn’t be long before a precision rifle class or ecqc gets one the stink eye, let alone tac con or a paulepalooza type event. Were not there with classes yet, but I can smell it coming. JMO.

[HCM]

How about Left-Wing domestic extremist groups?

https://srastatic.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/web/img/theme/header.png
https://socialistra.org/
https://twitter.com/sne_sra

Also:
Redneck Revolt and John Brown Gun Club
http://rijohnbrowngun.club/
https://twitter.com/rijbgc

Indigenous Anarchist Federation
https://iaf-fai.org/2020/09/26/skills-for-revolutionary-survival-4-primary-firearms/

ACLED is a left biased organization so ....

But yes, those are just a few of the leftist militia organizations. They don't call them selves "militias" though since that term has become associated with right wing groups. The term of art for leftist militias is "Community Defense" groups.

[HCM]

I see that it didn’t take long for Glover’s effort to get lumped in with the motley crowd.

Many on this very forum have observed that it wouldn’t be long before a precision rifle class or ecqc gets one the stink eye, let alone tac con or a paulepalooza type event. Were not there with classes yet, but I can smell it coming. JMO.


AS stated above ACLED is not an impartial or reliable source. Nor is the SPLC.

SPLC is not so much biased L/R as they are biased to label everyone extremists in order to help keep up the scare and drive funding. Kind of like the NRA pushing gun control doom porn to keep donor dollars flowing.

[Totem Polar]

AS stated above ACLED is not an impartial or reliable source. Nor is the SPLC.

SPLC is not so much biased L/R as they are biased to label everyone extremists in order to help keep up the scare and drive funding. Kind of like the NRA pushing gun control doom porn to keep donor dollars flowing.

Oh, absofuckinglutely. I get the drive behind the labeling, and couldn't agree more. Still, it didn't take long. We were just hearing about Glover's effort here, on P-F, mid-summer.

[LittleLebowski]

Some interesting comments in the thread just far. I'd like to insert that 1) the laws being discussed are all state-driven, not federal, 2) the federal government is explicitly forbidden from "banning" groups of people, and 3) in another thread, the most vocal opposition to a perceived government overreach are 4 federal agents, and the only people cool with it are.....not federal agents.



And under the reform you're in favor of, an FBI Supervisory Special Agent who pipes up, "Hey these people aren't a threat, they're simply at opposition with the government's stance on XYZ so we're closing the investigation" could promptly be fired.

Oh christ, take it easy on your crusade. I got corrected by HCM on my understanding, I’ve been meaning to find that thread and be an honest person and admit my mistake; I’ve been limited by my work network and some PF server issues.

[HCM]

Oh, absofuckinglutely. I get the drive behind the labeling, and couldn't agree more. Still, it didn't take long. We were just hearing about Glover's effort here, on P-F, mid-summer.

To be honest I think Glover's main motivation was to create interest in and drive traffic to his classes. He does a lot of non-firearm classes which would be of interest to someone whose interests lead them to such a group.

It's potentially a smart marketing strategy.