LTT 92 or Shadow 2

[JCS]

I’m wanting to join the da/sa crowd. I’ve traditionally been a Glock guy and recently started shooting sig strikers. I want a full size da/sa with the main intended use of Uspsa production.

Help me see the pros and cons of both.

If LTT which one? Full size?

[claymore504]

I am not a comp shooter. So, the LTT Elite is the perfect 92 if you ask me. All the little things that the 92 needed corrected have been done making it the perfect duty pistol if you ask me. The Shadow 2 is compitition focused and designed. They have different ergonomics, so you may want to hold each of you have not and see how the controls work for you. I am sure some compitition shooters will chime in with more details.

[edison]

Have you considered a tanfoglio stock 2?

[Cory]

If it's purely a game gun most would choose the CZ. It's strongly represented in production and limited I think.

I like Beretta 92s and frequently use an LTT. I also like that 92s allow decocking instead of hammer lowering. Most see that as a non-issue.

Edit: Full size 92. I wouldnt consider the other sizes for a game gun.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

S2 pros:
Built for gaming, theres a reason so many production shooters shoot this gun
Lighter SA, I'm pretty sure
Limitless competition oriented aftermarket
No weird looking levers on slide

LTT pros:
Special snowflake factor
Easier to rack slide (unloaded starts)
Decocker instead of manual decocking
Inherently better feed reliability
Light weight and short grip to double as carry gun, especially if get Centurion
Unique recoil system means it may shoot as flat or flatter even though lighter weight
Smoother DA, maybe

[JCS]

Have you considered a tanfoglio stock 2?

Sort of.... I’m aware of it but I’ve never handled one in person. It’s my understanding the trigger needs work out of the box to equal those guns i mentioned. Is that true?

[JCS]

If it's purely a game gun most would choose the CZ. It's strongly represented in production and limited I think.

I like Beretta 92s and frequently use an LTT. I also like that 92s allow decocking instead of hammer lowering. Most see that as a non-issue.

Edit: Full size 92. I wouldnt consider the other sizes for a game gun.

Not having a decocker makes me a bit nervous. It seems to be the biggest negative for the shadow 2. That and it seems to be picky on ammo and needs to be loaded short.

[Shawnw]

Smoother DA, maybe

If you get the LTT I would recommend one with a trigger job or at least a tjiab.

I have a stock LTT and the DA is not smooth. Very bad stacking in the middle of the pull.

[Cory]

Not having a decocker makes me a bit nervous. It seems to be the biggest negative for the shadow 2. That and it seems to be picky on ammo and needs to be loaded short.

I can't honestly speak to the CZs ammo needs. I've never owned one. Many, many, many people lower the hammer without issue. Most view it as a total non-issue.

You might be able to try out both after a local match in your area.

[CanineCombatives]

Check out the Humble Marksman on youtube.

[Jared]

I vastly prefer the 92, having owned both. However, if you really want what is probably the best straight out of the box purpose built USPSA Production pistol, you should probably get the Shadow 2. Now, if you’re looking for a platform to pull double duty, the 92 family is a better bet IMO.

If you decide on the LTT, get a full size with Langdon trigger job straight from LTT for gaming.

[Bucky]

I started shooting production when production first came out using various Berettas including a Langdon (not sure if it was LTT yet) worked Elite 2. I now shoot a Shadow 2, though I do still own those Berettas. For me, the difference is vast.

Some random thoughts:

1. I didn’t like the way the gun fit my hand at first, and almost sold it until I decide to just shoot one match first. After which, instead of selling, I bought a second.

2. It’s been 2 years now, yet I still cringe every time I lower the hammer.

3. I’ve heard the “you have to load short” comments, but haven’t experienced it. I’ve seen Stock 2s that needed to be loaded short or you’d bind in the rifling, which is odd considering the magazines they use.

4. My competition 92 trigger is lighter than my Shadow 2, but I just think the geometry works better on the CZ, it’s a more linear pull, instead of a rolling pull. At least that’s my impression.

5. For carry, I still chose Beretta.

6. YMMV.

[Oldherkpilot]

Not having a decocker makes me a bit nervous. It seems to be the biggest negative for the shadow 2. That and it seems to be picky on ammo and needs to be loaded short.

I'm with you on the decocker. One of the guys I shoot with regularly (and beats me regularly) had the hammer get away from him on his Shadow 2 while lowering it just a couple weeks back. It was pointed down range, no harm done, but that's why I have decockers on my CZs.

[BigT]

If carry is part of the picture then the 92 is the logical answer.

If you want the ideal sports bat for Prod that will travel to the range in a bag, get put on, shot with and then go back in the back. While making you as competitive as possible the Shadow 2 is so popular at high level for a reason.

[CraigS]

I am not sure if this applies to USPSA but it does in IDPA. The Shadow2 can be shot in either production or enhanced production (I think it is) depending how you start. In production you start a stage w/ a DA pull. In enhanced you start in SA. I don't know the answer to this but one more consideration might be can you install a dot sight. On an LTT you can, but I don't know about a Shadow2. That might be a consideration in the future.

[claymore504]

Like I said before, I am not a compitition shooter, so I do not know rules. How would the CZ Shadow 2 SA play into this? No lowering the hammer is needed.

[BigT]

Like I said before, I am not a compitition shooter, so I do not know rules. How would the CZ Shadow 2 SA play into this? No lowering the hammer is needed.


Standard or Limited Minor

[BN]

USPSA Production? Definitely the CZ.

[foxj66]

I think its been said pretty well already but those guns are very different and serve different purposes.

I would recommend the shadow 2 for USPSA (I do shoot for CZ)

Its pretty well built around the IPSC production rule book. As a target gun its going to excel due to having proper sights, and being heavy. Triggers are good and can be made really good cheaply.

The LTT (Full size) Is going to be a lot lighter gun with the alloy frame. I would expect it to have a good trigger as well, I think it serves better as a general use gun but would work fine for USPSA production as long as its on the list.

At the end of the day just get whichever gun you like better both are going to be fine with the shadow 2 being a little better for USPSA and the LTT being something you could actually carry.

[MGW]

I'll chime in too. My opinion is it's easier to transition from plastic guns to a 92 series than it is to a Shadow 2. I personally struggled with draws and transitions with the Shadow 2. I didn't have that issue with the Berreta. I'm a little bit of a tactical Timmy (okay maybe a lot of a tactical Timmy) and 92s fit that mold better in my mind.

There are very few guns I regret getting rid of. One of them is a Wilson Centurian. The second is a Wilson BrigTac.

[Sal Picante]

Have you considered a tanfoglio stock 2?

Why don't you light the poor dude on fire while you're at it?

[Sal Picante]

The other option is to consider the 92X Performance...

(I think there are some issues with the OOTB safeties being too wide for USPSA production box, but these exist: https://www.berettausa.com/en-us/safety-set-small-92x-performan-92x-perf/e02486/ - but, they're on the list.)

Both are accurate, both are steel-frame "gamer guns".

It really boils down to feel/preference. Try them both and see what you like. The gun doesn't make the most difference when racing in USPSA... Your ability to shoot and understand the game makes the biggest difference.

For reference, I carry and shoot a Beretta. I've won matches with both platforms. I came back to the Beretta because I can just carry what I shoot/what I practice with...

Happy to answer questions about USPSA/Berettas...

[Bucky]

I am not sure if this applies to USPSA but it does in IDPA. The Shadow2 can be shot in either production or enhanced production (I think it is) depending how you start. In production you start a stage w/ a DA pull. In enhanced you start in SA. I don't know the answer to this but one more consideration might be can you install a dot sight. On an LTT you can, but I don't know about a Shadow2. That might be a consideration in the future.

I bailed on IDPA when they changed to 1 point down = 1 second down.

However... there is no production. SSP, stock service pistol, and ESP, enhanced service pistol. Also unless something has changed recently, the Shadow 2 is an utter no go in IDPA due to its weight, in any division.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Could you elaborate on what advantages the S2 has over the LTT for you Bucky?

[Wheeler]

I bailed on IDPA when they changed to 1 point down = 1 second down.

However... there is no production. SSP, stock service pistol, and ESP, enhanced service pistol. Also unless something has changed recently, the Shadow 2 is an utter no go in IDPA due to its weight, in any division.

Why did you bail on IDPA when they changed the penalty?

[Clusterfrack]

JCS, it took me a while to realize that using what most of the top shooters use is the way to go. For USPSA Production division, the CZ Shadow 2 is dominant. In Carry Optics, it's gaining traction. Everyone I know, including myself, who has switched to a S2 is happy. I don't know anyone who has switched from a S2 to something else, unless they switched divisions.

Lack of a decocker is an advantage, IMO. Fewer parts, and easier detail stripping. Putting the hammer down after "make ready" is simple and safe, if you know the trick. In comparison to the other things we need to be safe about while running around with a loaded gun, this is at the bottom of the list.

I compared my lightly-modified (aftermarket springs and firing pin) Shadow 2 to LTT and Wilson 92s. I found the S2 to be superior in both DA and SA, as did the owners of the Berettas.

Cheap, readily available spare parts. Easy to work on. Extremely durable and reliable. And in my opinion, better ergos.

Unless you carry a 92, I can't think of a single reason to choose one over a Shadow2.

[Winegamd]

Just buying a Wilson or LTT Beretta, as far as trigger/action goes, doesn't really get you anything special other than a D spring and a skeletonized hammer. The trigger jobs are extra. There is a huge difference between a 13lb spring and a stock D spring. Even more with a full trigger job, 12lb spring, and NP3 coating.

I have felt the factory CZ trigger job in multiple models, and, while definitely smoother, didn't think it was that much better than the stock Beretta factory models with a D-spring (M9A3, LTT, 92x).

Other than the weight, there really isn't much benefit with the CZ and it's going to be hard to find a concealment holster for it.

Also, unless you just prefer the aesthetics, want a full size grip (without a wrap around grip panel), or don't want to mess with changing sights, there isn't much benefit to the LTT over the 92x models. The stock triggers are exactly the same unless you option the LTT trigger job. If it were me, get the 92x with the LTT trigger job and the LTT sights from Ernest's site, and send it.

[JTQ]

Happy to answer questions about USPSA/Berettas...
Outside of the 92X Performance, do you consider all the rest of the Beretta M9/92 models basically equals?

[YVK]

I own both. Not exactly, my LTT is not a "production" LTT but a full custom work on my own 92G-isn variant. I would give a slight nod to Shadow for better trigger, better sights (big one for me, I like narrow adjustable and there isn't a good such option for Berettas, or I don't know of one), and these days easier transition to carry optic option with Shadow 2. Doing an unloaded start on a hot Beretta barrel is either slower, or not much fun. Taking apart Beretta is not anything I want to do again, specifically talking about slide. Taking apart CZ is nothing big as long as you don't mess with a sear cage. I also found CZs be slightly more accurate. I use factory ammo and shot 115, 124, 147 and 150 gr ammo out of CZ without any problems.
I do prefer Beretta's grip and how it cycles. CZ breaks parts regularly, not seen that with a Beretta.
My overall preference is a Shadow 2, Beretta is living in my safe.

[rcbusmc24]

61679

Why not something that is a little of both.

[Sal Picante]

Outside of the 92X Performance, do you consider all the rest of the Beretta M9/92 models basically equals?

Largely, yes. They're all the same "basic idea" of pistol. The small nuances do stack up and that's where the price becomes questionable... E.g. Anyone who buys a basic beater 92FS "trade-in" is going to spend $$ on the trigger kit, the rear sight, grips, extended magazine release and MecGar mags to make it competitive.

The alternative is to buy a new LTT and be pretty much there.

The 92XPerformance only seems different. Safeties, steel frame, etc. The reality is, tho, that it too feels much like an old Brig-slide Beretta Elite, E2, or G-SD. Once i shot it for a bit I forgot I was shooting the steel-framed "race gun"... It is still a falling-block Beretta 92...

[Sal Picante]

I’m wanting to join the da/sa crowd. I’ve traditionally been a Glock guy and recently started shooting sig strikers. I want a full size da/sa with the main intended use of Uspsa production.

Help me see the pros and cons of both.

If LTT which one? Full size?

While this thread devolves into the intangible nuances of aficionado-oriented DA/SA pistols, I kept thinking about your motivations while I cracked a beer...

Re-read your question...

Why not shoot USPSA with what you got for a bit?

I mean, don't let any of us stop you if you want to toss a cool grand at a range toy, but, seriously, you can go so far with a Sig320 or a Glock17.
I mean, Nils Jonasson has been winning all the area matches with a tuned Glock and Mason Lane has been right there with a tricked out P320.
The difference is really finding something that you like - and understanding the preference really comes from getting out there and engaging in the sport.

[Bucky]

Could you elaborate on what advantages the S2 has over the LTT for you Bucky?

1. The weight
2. The linear like pull of the trigger.
3. The short trigger return (and reset if that’s your thing)
4. The grip, once I got used to it. It really points well to the point I feel I’m more likely to get the lucky hit when I lose the sites than any other platform.
5. The gun is super accurate, both mechanically and practically.

[Bucky]

Why did you bail on IDPA when they changed the penalty?

While I really like the concept of the sport, I think it’s an utter fail at meeting their attempted goal. That being said, it was still a good time to hang out with other gun people and put rounds down range. Now given a choice, I’d always pick a USPSA match over an IDPA match. Aside from the obvious rule differences, a typical USPSA match will have three to four times the round count, and I’ll usually be done much quicker... at least in my area. Still, there were days where the IDPA match was more practical (much closer).

When it was 1/2 second down per point, the emphasis was already weighing accuracy WAY above speed. Let’s just say friends of mine, who are winning not just locally, call it a walking bullseye match. I find it to be an accurate assessment.

In fairness, it should be noted that I no longer feel the need to shoot every single Saturday and Sunday, so the low round count slower paced match was obviously the first to be dropped I still keep my membership current though.

[Bucky]

Outside of the 92X Performance, do you consider all the rest of the Beretta M9/92 models basically equals?

I know you’re not addressing me, but I’ll add my 2¢ and say NO! I find the enhanced models, such as the Elite 2 to have many advantages over a base 92. Aside from stuff that’s easily swapped out (trigger job, mag button, etc) you have:

1. Beveled mag well
2. Front strap and back strap checkering
3. Replaceable front sight
4. Front cocking serrations.

[MGW]

Largely, yes. They're all the same "basic idea" of pistol. The small nuances do stack up and that's where the price becomes questionable... E.g. Anyone who buys a basic beater 92FS "trade-in" is going to spend $$ on the trigger kit, the rear sight, grips, extended magazine release and MecGar mags to make it competitive.

The alternative is to buy a new LTT and be pretty much there.

The 92XPerformance only seems different. Safeties, steel frame, etc. The reality is, tho, that it too feels much like an old Brig-slide Beretta Elite, E2, or G-SD. Once i shot it for a bit I forgot I was shooting the steel-framed "race gun"... It is still a falling-block Beretta 92...

You’re shooting a 92x Performance now? Are you using the Vertec frame as is of the wrap around grips? What are your thoughts about the pistol in general?

[Wheeler]

While I really like the concept of the sport, I think it’s an utter fail at meeting their attempted goal. That being said, it was still a good time to hang out with other gun people and put rounds down range. Now given a choice, I’d always pick a USPSA match over an IDPA match. Aside from the obvious rule differences, a typical USPSA match will have three to four times the round count, and I’ll usually be done much quicker... at least in my area. Still, there were days where the IDPA match was more practical (much closer).

When it was 1/2 second down per point, the emphasis was already weighing accuracy WAY above speed. Let’s just say friends of mine, who are winning not just locally, call it a walking bullseye match. I find it to be an accurate assessment.

In fairness, it should be noted that I no longer feel the need to shoot every single Saturday and Sunday, so the low round count slower paced match was obviously the first to be dropped I still keep my membership current though.

That’s interesting. Thanks for clarifying for me.

[Clusterfrack]

I own both. Not exactly, my LTT is not a "production" LTT but a full custom work on my own 92G-isn variant. I would give a slight nod to Shadow for better trigger, better sights (big one for me, I like narrow adjustable and there isn't a good such option for Berettas, or I don't know of one), and these days easier transition to carry optic option with Shadow 2. Doing an unloaded start on a hot Beretta barrel is either slower, or not much fun. Taking apart Beretta is not anything I want to do again, specifically talking about slide. Taking apart CZ is nothing big as long as you don't mess with a sear cage. I also found CZs be slightly more accurate. I use factory ammo and shot 115, 124, 147 and 150 gr ammo out of CZ without any problems.
I do prefer Beretta's grip and how it cycles. CZ breaks parts regularly, not seen that with a Beretta.
My overall preference is a Shadow 2, Beretta is living in my safe.

What parts, and at what round counts? My 3 S2s have not had anything unusual happen. My practice gun went over 30k on one slide stop (commonly replaced at ~10k on a S2), and now has 20k on the second SS. The CGW trigger return springs have been extremely durable. My estimate is >100k cycles on the practice gun before the TRS broke.

Nothing else has needed replacement, other than recoil springs.

I do use a thin film of grease on the slide stop, and that seems to improve service life of this part.

And, your point about disassembly is a very good one. Any competition gun I own needs to be able to be detail stripped easily, and serviced by me, without needing a gunsmith. The S2 is super easy to work on. Not quite a simple as a Glock, but not that much more difficult either.

[YVK]

What parts, and at what round counts?

Slide stops every 10k. Front sights, something weird happened this summer. They got loose in their pockets on both guns, and one flew off despite pin staying in place. The second I can wiggle up and down with my fingers. One oem, another Dawson. My summer practice volume and content may have been too stressful on them though

[Clusterfrack]

Slide stops every 10k. Front sights, something weird happened this summer. They got loose in their pockets on both guns, and one flew off despite pin staying in place. The second I can wiggle up and down with my fingers. One oem, another Dawson. My summer practice volume and content may have been too stressful on them though

That’s weird about the sights. Did you add an aftermarket bushing? My guns have pretty high round counts and no issues.

[YVK]

Did you add an aftermarket bushing?


Nope. Never had that happen before either.

June to October I been shooting about 3-4k / month, working on speed, speed, speed. Most of that round count was shot under .20 splits, frequently at .15-.16, up to 500 rounds per session. I even got a moderate shooter's elbow, been taking time off after the A1. Maybe just too much stress on the guns.
In addition, my CO slides have been lightened almost 2 oz below the OEM weight. The SROs make up for the most of it but I think the slides are still lighter. I use lighter recoil springs too, so I think my guns just got banged up a bit.

[nightstalker865]

The lack of a decocker on the CZ is a hard no for me. I would choose the LTT Beretta every time over the Shadow 2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[foxj66]

Nope. Never had that happen before either.

June to October I been shooting about 3-4k / month, working on speed, speed, speed. Most of that round count was shot under .20 splits, frequently at .15-.16, up to 500 rounds per session. I even got a moderate shooter's elbow, been taking time off after the A1. Maybe just too much stress on the guns.
In addition, my CO slides have been lightened almost 2 oz below the OEM weight. The SROs make up for the most of it but I think the slides are still lighter. I use lighter recoil springs too, so I think my guns just got banged up a bit.

Shooting CO just remove the front sights. Its not needed to hold the bushing in, just make sure you put the pin back in.

[Clusterfrack]

Nope. Never had that happen before either.

June to October I been shooting about 3-4k / month, working on speed, speed, speed. Most of that round count was shot under .20 splits, frequently at .15-.16, up to 500 rounds per session. I even got a moderate shooter's elbow, been taking time off after the A1. Maybe just too much stress on the guns.
In addition, my CO slides have been lightened almost 2 oz below the OEM weight. The SROs make up for the most of it but I think the slides are still lighter. I use lighter recoil springs too, so I think my guns just got banged up a bit.

3-4k a month was similar to my burn rate last year. I know there are 100's of USPSA shooters who are doing that regularly as well. It's hard for me to envision a mechanism for split speed to cause damage. But, the light recoil spring may be your answer! I have gone to a heavier RS in the last couple of years. I'm running 12-13#. I find that I get less flip, faster cycling, and if my grip is solid the gun still doesn't dip.


The lack of a decocker on the CZ is a hard no for me. I would choose the LTT Beretta every time over the Shadow 2.



I want a full size da/sa with the main intended use of Uspsa production.


For USPSA, there is no reason to have a decocker. This is widely accepted in the sport.

[JCS]

I'll chime in too. My opinion is it's easier to transition from plastic guns to a 92 series than it is to a Shadow 2. I personally struggled with draws and transitions with the Shadow 2. I didn't have that issue with the Berreta. I'm a little bit of a tactical Timmy (okay maybe a lot of a tactical Timmy) and 92s fit that mold better in my mind.

There are very few guns I regret getting rid of. One of them is a Wilson Centurian. The second is a Wilson BrigTac.

Can you expand your thoughts on why it’s easier to transition to the 92?

[JCS]

JCS, it took me a while to realize that using what most of the top shooters use is the way to go. For USPSA Production division, the CZ Shadow 2 is dominant. In Carry Optics, it's gaining traction. Everyone I know, including myself, who has switched to a S2 is happy. I don't know anyone who has switched from a S2 to something else, unless they switched divisions.

Lack of a decocker is an advantage, IMO. Fewer parts, and easier detail stripping. Putting the hammer down after "make ready" is simple and safe, if you know the trick. In comparison to the other things we need to be safe about while running around with a loaded gun, this is at the bottom of the list.

I compared my lightly-modified (aftermarket springs and firing pin) Shadow 2 to LTT and Wilson 92s. I found the S2 to be superior in both DA and SA, as did the owners of the Berettas.

Cheap, readily available spare parts. Easy to work on. Extremely durable and reliable. And in my opinion, better ergos.

Unless you carry a 92, I can't think of a single reason to choose one over a Shadow2.


The disassembly is not something I had considered. One of the reasons I like glocks is because I can take em apart practically blindfolded. I’ll have to look up some disassembly videos for each to judge my abilities.


While this thread devolves into the intangible nuances of aficionado-oriented DA/SA pistols, I kept thinking about your motivations while I cracked a beer...

Re-read your question...

Why not shoot USPSA with what you got for a bit?

I mean, don't let any of us stop you if you want to toss a cool grand at a range toy, but, seriously, you can go so far with a Sig320 or a Glock17.
I mean, Nils Jonasson has been winning all the area matches with a tuned Glock and Mason Lane has been right there with a tricked out P320.
The difference is really finding something that you like - and understanding the preference really comes from getting out there and engaging in the sport.

There you go with that common sense. Get that out of here this is about getting a new gun! I kid I kid. You are 100% correct. I had to step away from Uspsa for a couple years and I want to rededicate myself this winter to the sport. I had sold off some of my guns and planned on buying a full size gun to add to my collection. I’ve wanted a da/sa for awhile and feel like a new gun will motivate me to practice even more. I do plan on shooting several matches as I get back into it with a g19. I’m gonna have lots of questions about the gun so I may be hitting you up lol


The lack of a decocker on the CZ is a hard no for me. I would choose the LTT Beretta every time over the Shadow 2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is hard for me to get past as a guy who has never owned a da/sa gun. It makes me nervous watching people lower the hammer with their fingers.


3-4k a month was similar to my burn rate last year. I know there are 100's of USPSA shooters who are doing that regularly as well. It's hard for me to envision a mechanism for split speed to cause damage. But, the light recoil spring may be your answer! I have gone to a heavier RS in the last couple of years. I'm running 12-13#. I find that I get less flip, faster cycling, and if my grip is solid the gun still doesn't dip.





For USPSA, there is no reason to have a decocker. This is widely accepted in the sport.

Maybe I need to cut my teeth on a gun with a decocker first.

[Clusterfrack]

Maybe I need to cut my teeth on a gun with a decocker first.

I don't think so. In a competition setting, decocking is easy and safe. I've never seen anyone screw this up, and the stakes are low if you do.

1. Point gun in a safe direction. E.g. at a target or the berm.
2. Put index finger of support hand in between hammer and firing pin, with pad of finger touching hammer.
3. Pull trigger.
4. Rotate finger clockwise (right handed shooter), lowering hammer gently.

For a carry gun, I'm a huge fan of decockers (I use CZ P-07s for defense).

[JCS]

One additional question for the masses. Is the NP3 upgrade for the Elite LTT worth the money or is it best spent on ammo?

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I don't think so. In a competition setting, decocking is easy and safe. I've never seen anyone screw this up, and the stakes are low if you do.

1. Point gun in a safe direction. E.g. at a target or the berm.
2. Put index finger of support hand in between hammer and firing pin, with pad of finger touching hammer.
3. Pull trigger.
4. Rotate finger clockwise (right handed shooter), lowering hammer gently.

For a carry gun, I'm a huge fan of decockers (I use CZ P-07s for defense).

Interesting. I do it a little different, using my strong hand thumb to slowly lower the hammer. This has the advantage of being able to be done with one hand, although ideally you would hold the frame with support hand while doing so. I have done this hundreds of times and always felt perfectly safe, I even used to carry in this manner (mainly an SP01).

Nowadays I wont carry anything without a decocker, generally speeaking. However, the reason is mainly that I wouldnt want to have to manually decock after a shoot, when I might have to do so under great stress and dont want my finger in the triggerguard.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Fop OP, if you like the idea of a CZ but want a decocker you could get the SP01 Tactical, maybe a pre-tuned version from Cajun Gun Works. Would be fairly similar to an S2, although not quite as purpose built for competition.

If you want a decocker and care about ease of detail stripping, check out the P09. The P07/P09 have to be the easiest TDA guns to detail strip, like one level beyond a Glock if you know what you are doing. They are also plastic and have a more squarish grip, which may make the transition from Glock a bit easier.

Having said that, I really dont think manually decocking is a big deal, especially just for competition. Just do it a bunch in dryfire first.

[YVK]

Shooting CO just remove the front sights. Its not needed to hold the bushing in, just make sure you put the pin back in.

Having seen my share of dots dying or flying off mid-stage, if I have an easy option of having a front sight there, I'd take that for some backup aiming reference over none. I didn't do it with DPP because it was PITA but with SRO it's not a hard thing to do.

[EVP]

I don’t think either of these two pistols setup right will be the limiting factor. Your gonna have to shoot both extensively to even come to a conclusion. If so it will just boil down to preferences.


My 2 cents, I would have no interest in competing with a pistol that you are not
really going to carry(shadow 2). Seems pointless unless you live in a place you cannot carry.

[MGW]

Can you expand your thoughts on why it’s easier to transition to the 92?

This was before my 1911 days but for me it was the weight. The S2 is pretty chunky compared to a Glock. I also seem to remember a lot of that weight feeling like it was toward the barrel. I’m sure if I had put a lot more time into it I could have figured it out.

I also had some ergonomic issues with the Shadow 2 but most people don’t. My grip kept activating the magazine release and dumping magazines on the ground.

[Sal Picante]

You’re shooting a 92x Performance now? Are you using the Vertec frame as is of the wrap around grips? What are your thoughts about the pistol in general?

I am not. I was shooting a basic-ass 92G until last week.

I swapped the non-beveled/non-checkered frame for an M9A1 frame I had. (I decided to let the .22 conversion live on that frame ranther than the M9A1 frame...) I had an white dot integral front sight and my .270" rear sight on it along with a 16# spring and a Wilson trigger bar since I ruin stock 92 trigger bars from dry fire/etc. Some parts would come and go: experimented with lighter springs, spurless hammer, etc. In the end, it just put it all largely back to stock.

I just retired that gun/frame/combo - I got a turbo pin with that gun, got into the AIWB stuff with that gun and crushed souls with that setup.

I'm starting to shoot a LTT Elite, which is stock for now. I will experiment more with this setup: Looking forward to sights, trigger work, and parts experimentation.

[Sal Picante]

I don't think so. In a competition setting, decocking is easy and safe. I've never seen anyone screw this up, and the stakes are low if you do.

1. Point gun in a safe direction. E.g. at a target or the berm.
2. Put index finger of support hand in between hammer and firing pin, with pad of finger touching hammer.
3. Pull trigger.
4. Rotate finger clockwise (right handed shooter), lowering hammer gently.

For a carry gun, I'm a huge fan of decockers (I use CZ P-07s for defense).

I agree with you that it isn't an issue - most folks do it pretty automatically and it really shouldn't scare people away from buying a race gun.
That said... I've seen a dude AD because he screwed it up and didn't catch the hammer.

The Slavex decock method is, by far, the best:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpcHRoL35Po

[Sal Picante]

One additional question for the masses. Is the NP3 upgrade for the Elite LTT worth the money or is it best spent on ammo?

Kinda depends...

Do you live in hot/humid Florida?
Do you have toxic corrosive sweat?
Do you plan on carrying this gun or is it truly a race gun?

If yes to any of these, it could be worth it.

[Sal Picante]

There you go with that common sense. Get that out of here this is about getting a new gun! I kid I kid. You are 100% correct. I had to step away from Uspsa for a couple years and I want to rededicate myself this winter to the sport. I had sold off some of my guns and planned on buying a full size gun to add to my collection. I’ve wanted a da/sa for awhile and feel like a new gun will motivate me to practice even more. I do plan on shooting several matches as I get back into it with a g19. I’m gonna have lots of questions about the gun so I may be hitting you up lol


If you're dabbling, just save the $$ and put it to match fees and ammo...

If you're serious, just save the $$ and put it to match fees and ammo...

All kidding aside, both of these guns are cool, both of these guns will run well in matches. Being a shooter, you'll have to learn the "ins" and "outs" of whatever gear you decide to roll with...

[CraigS]

I bailed on IDPA when they changed to 1 point down = 1 second down.

However... there is no production. SSP, stock service pistol, and ESP, enhanced service pistol. Also unless something has changed recently, the Shadow 2 is an utter no go in IDPA due to its weight, in any division.
Bucky you are correct. I had to think back again on where I had seen the CZs. One was at a very informal match and the guy's pistol was a slightly different version than a Shadow2. Possibly this one as I remember it had an adjustable rear sight. At this match there aren't any stringent gun rules.
https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-target-ii-9mm-cz-custom/
The other was a woman whose pistol had the blue aluminum grip panels and when I asked if it was a Shadow2 she said it was an older CZ but the panels come from a 2. She is the one who explained the SSP = DA first shot vs ESP = SA first shot. I don't remember exactly which pistol she had but am sure it is idpa legal as they announced at the next match that she had made Master at a qualifying match the weekend before.

[fpnunes]

For reference, I carry and shoot a Beretta. I've won matches with both platforms. I came back to the Beretta because I can just carry what I shoot/what I practice with...

Happy to answer questions about USPSA/Berettas...

Boom! And that my fellow enthusiasts is the answer to the 64k question! (picture Les doing the mic drop and exiting stage right...).

Back to the OP. I'm currently running and carrying the LTT Centurion with trigger job and FO front sight and am constantly amazed at how flat it shoots.

[Dave Williams]

Why don't you light the poor dude on fire while you're at it?

Unfamiliar with the Stock 2, what are the issues?

[YVK]

Unfamiliar with the Stock 2, what are the issues?

They are like wine, one year's production can be good, next one not so much. I was unlucky to buy two in 2016. As Stoeger told me later, the '16 Stock 2s were fucked up. I am not using a profanity, that's a quote.

Short mainspring that made trigger job vs reliable ignition difficult, inconsistent chambers, something about barrel lugs on some guns. Two of mine refused to extract normally, usually during major but not local matches. Inconsistent internal dimensions, sear cages and other parts didn't always fit normally. The only steel guns on which I wore out checkering into a flat surface.
Exceptionally ergonomic for my preferences, fantastic triggers when they worked especially DA, great sight tracking, but never again.

[Sal Picante]

They are like wine, one year's production can be good, next one not so much. I was unlucky to buy two in 2016. As Stoeger told me later, the '16 Stock 2s were fucked up. I am not using a profanity, that's a quote.

Short mainspring that made trigger job vs reliable ignition difficult, inconsistent chambers, something about barrel lugs on some guns. Two of mine refused to extract normally, usually during major but not local matches. Inconsistent internal dimensions, sear cages and other parts didn't always fit normally. The only steel guns on which I wore out checkering into a flat surface.
Exceptionally ergonomic for my preferences, fantastic triggers when they worked especially DA, great sight tracking, but never again.

... yup... THIS!! ^^^^^^

If you're a savvy dude that wants the challenge/reward of something that can border on the sublime, that's one thing, but, the OP is a just getting into USPSA and into DA/SA guns...

[CraigS]

I just happened across this and thought it worthwhile. A youtube review of these two guns. Whether you agree w/ each of his conclusions or not, the data and general info seems well done w/o bias. I don't know anything about the shop that supplied the Shadow but it sure isn't stock from CZ. The DA weight for the LTT seems a bit high to me so not sure which level of prep his specific LTT had. But it's just 7 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHLEBtL3tb0

[Whirlwind06]

Sorry for the thread drift, is there a TDA pistol that’s factory cut for dot?

[Clusterfrack]

Sorry for the thread drift, is there a TDA pistol that’s factory cut for dot?

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-shadow-2-or/

[MGW]

Thanks to this thread I’m looking at Berettas again.

[JCS]

Well I think this thread has served it's purpose for me so thread drifts are welcome.

I don't doubt the Shadow 2 is the better route for USPSA only but after thinking more on it I'm gonna save a couple hundred bucks and get the LTT 92. Plus I've looked around and Shadow 2's are out of stock everywhere. I can get the 92 through Langdon with a few weeks wait. I don't plan on carrying it but it can serve double duty as a nightstand gun.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Sorry for the thread drift, is there a TDA pistol that’s factory cut for dot?

CZ shadow 2

Beretta 92 LTT

Arex REX Tactical

[CraigS]

... get the LTT 92. I don't plan on carrying it but it can serve double duty as a nightstand gun.
Yes it can. I have been running a 12# spring in most of our 92s for 3 years. I stick to Federal and CCI Independence and have not had any misfires. 3 months ago I started w/ an 11# in my idpa pistol and it needs extra firing pin cleaning at about 400 rnds.

[JCS]

Pulled the trigger on the 92 today. Now the wait begins. Looking forward to transitioning to da/sa.

[Sal Picante]

Pulled the trigger on the 92 today. Now the wait begins. Looking forward to transitioning to da/sa.

There is a lot of good info here on PF... That said, don't hesitate to hit me up if you ever have a question...

[JCS]

There is a lot of good info here on PF... That said, don't hesitate to hit me up if you ever have a question...

I have lots! I debated on starting a thread on what a new 92 owner needs to know. I think my questions fall into two categories
1) switching from striker to da/sa and I know there are some good threads on this I just need to find them
2) what do I need to know about owning a 92? Mags, replacement parts etc.

I was going to browse through some threads. I'm about halfway through the LTT 92 thread so far.

[MGW]

Pulled the trigger on the 92 today. Now the wait begins. Looking forward to transitioning to da/sa.

Thanks to a PF friend I’m looking forward to going back to TDA. His photo not mine.

62752

[tlong17]

If I have a compact and want extra capacity for Carry Optics, are the 18 round mecgars with the X grip adaptor the way to go?

Obviously buying a full size or centurion is the best answer, but let’s pretend the budget doesn’t allow at the moment.

[HCM]

CZ shadow 2

Beretta 92 LTT

Arex REX Tactical

SIG 226 Legion RX and 229 Legion RX

[CraigS]

I use nothing but 18 rnd Mecgars. I haven't tried the extension. Mecgar also makes a 20 rnd I think.

[CraigS]

For those of your transitioning to DA/SA check you tube for Ernest Langdon's 'Fear Not the DA Shot' series. And watch anything else you come across from Langdon. And order a 12#(generally comp or range practice use only)(get a skeleton hammer too if your model doesn't come w/ one), a 13#, and a 14# hammer spring from LTT to try.

[claymore504]

For anyone switching to a 92 series Beretta, Ernest Langdon's YouTube page will pretty much answer most if not all questions you may have from learning the DA/SA trigger to taking care of your 92. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/user/eglangdon/videos

[JCS]

For those of your transitioning to DA/SA check you tube for Ernest Langdon's 'Fear Not the DA Shot' series. And watch anything else you come across from Langdon. And order a 12#(generally comp or range practice use only)(get a skeleton hammer too if your model doesn't come w/ one), a 13#, and a 14# hammer spring from LTT to try.

Does the LTT have a skeletonized hammer?

[Sal Picante]

Does the LTT have a skeletonized hammer?

Yes