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jslaker
06-16-2012, 06:58 PM
I just had an odd sort of lightbulb moment at the range.

I've been struggling lately with a somewhat erratic trigger press during live fire. Everything will be fine, then my groups will just suddenly fall apart, showing classic low left hits caused by trigger jerk.

Then something funny happened.

As I would press the trigger, I'd visualize the trigger acting on the internals of the gun. The trigger bar coming back, pushing on the sear as it tips... tips... tips... BANG. Suddenly my rounds are going to my exact point of aim, every time.

The interesting thing is that, as I visualized it, I could start to feel the individual parts acting on each other, and it made it massively easier for me to maintain a constant press through to ignition. It took the press from a black box that I was simply feeding input to and made it into a concrete process that my brain could easily understand.

At any rate, I figured I've stumbled on an interesting trick that I'd share. Goes to show how much of shooting is mental.

Sheep Have Wool
06-16-2012, 07:11 PM
At any rate, I figured I've stumbled on an interesting trick that I'd share. Goes to show how much of shooting is mental.

Absolutely. Wayne Dobbs explained the trigger pull to me like rowing a canoe.


Another way I've taught the DA trigger press on a service auto is to think of the proper use of a canoe paddle or a boat oar: each is used in a long, smooth, constant speed STROKE from the moment you dip the blade of the paddle/oar until it finishes its stroke at the end. We don't chop in little steps through the water and we don't change speeds of the paddle blade. Sometimes we may use the paddle slowly, sometimes quickly, but it's always a smooth and steady stroke from beginning to end. Just another way to explain things...

I've been thinking about this while doing dry and live fire, and it's helped tremendously.

Wayne Dobbs
06-16-2012, 08:02 PM
This is another variation on a Bruce Gray training technique in which he has the shooters on line with dry pistols. The shooters extend (dare I say "press out"?) and begin to stroke the triggers while learning every micro millimeter of the trigger's travel. After this is done several times, he has them speed up the stroke incrementally. It's just another way of learning all the tiny details of trigger press. There are lots more ways to teach it and learn it.

jslaker
06-16-2012, 08:11 PM
This is another variation on a Bruce Gray training technique in which he has the shooters on line with dry pistols. The shooters extend (dare I say "press out"?) and begin to stroke the triggers while learning every micro millimeter of the trigger's travel. After this is done several times, he has them speed up the stroke incrementally. It's just another way of learning all the tiny details of trigger press. There are lots more ways to teach it and learn it.

What you're describing is very similar to what I had been doing. The visual aspect is really what made it click for me. "Seeing" the sear tipping back against the striker in my mind instead of simply applying pressure against the wall of the break is when everything finally started to fall in place. The best way to describe it is almost like imagining the slide is made of clear plastic so that I could watch the parts act against each other.

It's obviously something that wouldn't work for somebody that isn't fairly familiar with how everything fits together in the gun, but it seems to have worked for me. :)

TGS
06-16-2012, 09:11 PM
This is another variation on a Bruce Gray training technique in which he has the shooters on line with dry pistols. The shooters extend (dare I say "press out"?) and begin to stroke the triggers while learning every micro millimeter of the trigger's travel. After this is done several times, he has them speed up the stroke incrementally. It's just another way of learning all the tiny details of trigger press. There are lots more ways to teach it and learn it.

This is the way I figured out how to learn a proper trigger press (not from Bruce, but same concept). That, and concentrating on a steady increase of pressure instead of actively trying to break the shot.

bdcheung
06-16-2012, 09:28 PM
John Murphy taught me a drill where you, with a loaded pistol, squeeze the trigger just to the breaking point and then back off. You will inevitably have discharges. But the drill is to get you to really pay attention to the trigger press and movement. Try it sometime.


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CCT125US
06-17-2012, 06:18 PM
I will on occasion, visualize the hammer falling on my V3 as it does in dry fire. It keeps me from thinking of the recoil and yanking the shot. Wish I would have done this a few more times this weekend...

gtmtnbiker98
06-17-2012, 07:06 PM
I will on occasion, visualize the hammer falling on my V3 as it does in dry fire. It keeps me from thinking of the recoil and yanking the shot. Wish I would have done this a few more times this weekend...For some strange reason, I can relate to this - wish I could visualize Todd not being to my right at the sound of the timer. I shot today like I stepped off the "short bus."

BaiHu
06-18-2012, 09:40 AM
John Murphy taught me a drill where you, with a loaded pistol, squeeze the trigger just to the breaking point and then back off. You will inevitably have discharges. But the drill is to get you to really pay attention to the trigger press and movement. Try it sometime.


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Nice tip!

bdcheung
06-18-2012, 09:59 AM
Nice tip!

The really fascinating part is seeing what happens to your group sizes when you're trying not to fire the gun.

NickA
06-18-2012, 10:15 AM
Had a similar experience yesterday. I was working hard at accuracy, and really trying to compare the trigger feel between two Glocks- minus connector vs minus/NY1. I was hard focused on the front sight and "feeling" the trigger press all the way through. For the first time in a long time I was totally surprised when a shot broke. Need to remember to do that more often.

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Zhurdan
06-18-2012, 10:47 AM
John Murphy taught me a drill where you, with a loaded pistol, squeeze the trigger just to the breaking point and then back off. You will inevitably have discharges. But the drill is to get you to really pay attention to the trigger press and movement. Try it sometime.


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Phrasing!!!

Can't remember where I'd heard this before, but I've been doing that with my Glock and M&P for about 6-7 months and it has helped immensely on low percentage first shots.

Plan
07-06-2012, 09:08 PM
This reminds me of the concept of learning to drive a stick shift.... It doesn't really make sense until you see how an actual clutch works. Visualizing what is going on inside of a mechanical device makes it easier to understand the subtleties of its use. Great post, definitely something to try during dryfire/range time.

Jay Cunningham
07-06-2012, 10:12 PM
Interesting, I've begun using the term "stroke the trigger" lately when describing a string of fire. It makes sense when trying to get shooters to reset the trigger during the dead time of the recoil cycle.

jstyer
07-07-2012, 09:54 PM
Interesting, I've begun using the term "stroke the trigger" lately when describing a string of fire. It makes sense when trying to get shooters to reset the trigger during the dead time of the recoil cycle.

That is the exact verbage I used when I finally figured out the LEM trigger. (I was shooting peterb's gun and that was the only word I could think of to describe the feeling)

I think that the term stroke also works best when helping newer shooters develooe accurate strings of fire.

Shawn.L
07-08-2012, 08:18 PM
In a LAV pistol class this weekend Larry referred to shooting the GLOCK like a miniature DA and imagining a small little hammer in there as you roll through the trigger.
Man did that really click with me today.
I think coming from a 1911 background I always really thought of the trigger as a button, but rolling through like a tiny DA is much more fitting for the GLOCK.

Mr_White
07-11-2012, 04:32 PM
In a LAV pistol class this weekend Larry referred to shooting the GLOCK like a miniature DA and imagining a small little hammer in there as you roll through the trigger.
Man did that really click with me today.
I think coming from a 1911 background I always really thought of the trigger as a button, but rolling through like a tiny DA is much more fitting for the GLOCK.

That's pretty cool. I like the verbiage and imagery.

nycnoob
07-11-2012, 09:01 PM
I have been working on my trigger press using a snubnose revolver and I did notice that I often did a "jackrabbit start" during my trigger press.

I used to fly hang-gliders and we would pick them up and run down the hill to launch them. The idea was to be running as fast as you could before the glider left the ground so that you have the most energy in the glider for controlability. Beginners often get confused and begin their run at full speed, going from dead stop to 15 MPH in the first step. This is not a good idea when you are carrying 70 lbs of glider on your shoulders. You must start slow, with a walk for the first step and then accelerate. Starting from a full run is called a "jackrabbit start" and will cause the glider to jerk in your hands as it begins to move.

Anyway I find that when on the firing line and the buzzer goes off I wish to "react quickly" to the buzzer. I tend to mash the trigger because I am trying to shorten my reaction time. I think this is similar to the "jackrabbit start" I described above. While it is true I need to react quickly to the buzzer, that really means start the trigger press quickly. I should incrementally speed up my press not worry about shortenning my time to the trigger break. I believe this is why people say practice revolver shooting to improve your trigger press, it is impossible to jam the trigger quickly like it was a single action trigger.

You must start slow and smooth. I have not seen anyone else discuss this. So perhaps it is not the best way to think about it, but it was helpful for me. Also I have been doing some dry fire to try and incorporate "reaction time" as well as smooth trigger press (doing the wall drill with a shot timer to give me a random noise to react to). MY goal is to have practiced shorttening my reaction time so hopefully I will not get "over excited" and mash the trigger when I am under pressure to complete a shot quickly.

nycnoob
07-11-2012, 09:04 PM
My first comment was a bit off topic (about trigger press, not really about visualization), this is about visualization

I do remember reading somewhere the suggestion that during dry fire you should watch your trigger finger move.
This would help your brain make the connection between how the trigger feels and what you want it to do.

I do know that our brains have "mirror neurons" and we are designed to learn by watching other people do a task. So this makes sense that you can help learn the geometry of the trigger press by watching your finger motion.