Recomend a 9mm size / deprime die for Dillon

[CCT125US]

Working up a subsonic load on the D650 using a Berry's 147 HHP, paired with Unique. Issue is, for those not familiar with the Dillon 9mm size /deprime die, it creates an hour glass shape. This is a common and known occurrence, also known as wasp waist. Challenge is, with this new load case cap seems to be shy of what I need. Been loading on this press for decades, so not current with other offerings. Looking for Dillon quality, generous die mouth, and durability

Initial thinking is Hornady....

Anything else I should consider?

[revchuck38]

I use a Lee U die. Note that you can have a generous opening OR sizing down to the bottom of the case. I use it in my Dillon 550. The cases are sized enough to tightly grip .354- bullets and still work okay with .356 coated lead bullets.

[DDTSGM]

I'm not a pro but have you looked at the Lee or EGW modified Lee, these dies size down further than the dillon dies:

https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Reloading-Undersize-Sizing/dp/B00MO4SKE8

https://www.egwguns.com/undersize-reloading-die-9mm-luger

Undersized Reloading Dies will work with a Dillon Press if they are 550, 650, or 1050. They will not work if they are squared.

I'm running an EGW purchased die on my RL550, what happens is the bevel at the bottom of the Lee/EGW dies is much shallower than the Dillon dies. This means, for me at least, that about every 7 or 8 cases you will have one that won't seat. Generally, I just raise the tool head up a bit and then down to let the case feed plunger push it in, if that doesn't work I reach in and push the case in with a finger.

On my 550 that means I run it gentler and slower to avoid damaging the brass in that situation. If I start with primer tubes loaded, I can still easily do 400 an hour.

Another thing I noticed, I was able to lower the sizing die just a scoosh when I put a Turbo-Bearing kit from UniqueTech on the 500. I saw the case heads sticking up a little proud in my hundred case gauge.

But, regarding your wasp waist, I think the only way you are really going to correct that is with a roll-sizer: https://www.rollsizer.com/

[revchuck38]

I think I misunderstood the question. If you’re looking for a way to increase case capacity, there really isn’t one. One thing about Unique is that it compresses easily. You should have no problem getting a useable subsonic load with Unique while staying within published data. Alliant shows 4.3 grains under a 147-grain Gold Dot loaded to 1.13” giving 954 FPS, which is about a factory duplication load.

[CCT125US]

Appreciate the suggestions Dan Lehr and revchuck38

One thing I failed to mention, is that with the HHP, OAL needs to be at 1.085 in order to work in my HKs.

My threaded barrels may give me a bit more length to work with, but I dislike having a special load that doesn't work in all.

I'm going to start with backing out the Dillon die a bit, and may swap in my father's LEE die just as a trial.

However, a new die is probably in my future.

[noylj]

Hour glass (wasp waist) is GOOD. Don't like Dillon sizing dies as they don't size as low down the case as others. Prefer Lee or Hornady New Dimension.
9x19 is tapered. Wasp waist is quite common with ALL brands of sizing dies and is generally looked on as quite a good thing, as it can help with case/bullet tension.

[willie]

Carbide dies will create wasp waist in 9mm because the carbide ring(insert)sizes the case straight down without regard to its taper. Steel dies from the past produced a resized but tapered case. Because the case is thicker near the case head, the carbide die pushes this section inward more so than would a steel die. When seating heavier cast bullets like 147 grain or even heavier, this thicker section might size down the lead bullet's base. Many 9mm cast bullet shooters load .357 or .358 diameter bullets and must use a non standard case mouth expander. I use a Lee designed for the .38 S&W round. NOE makes an expander that will fit inside the Lee depriming die.

[mmc45414]

Carbide dies will create wasp waist in 9mm because the carbide ring(insert)sizes the case straight down without regard to its taper.
This has always been my understanding as well, but I recently had the carbide pull loose out of a Lee die and was surprised how large the carbide insert actually was. It was not large enough to completely envelope the entire case, but covered the majority of it. So maybe the Lee carbide die insert might be a little more tapered and would be exactly what the OP is looking for?

Also, this happened to my Lee die after thousands and thousands of rounds. It was out of their warranty period so I just bought another one (remember you can buy a Lee sizing die separately). One reason I did was because I wanted a second sizing die for use in my Lee APP press. This is not germane to this conversation, but I wanted the APP to swage primer pockets, so obviously they have to get the primers punched out, and if I am going to run them through to deprime then I can go ahead and size them, and if I am going to wet tumble before loading then I can lubricate them when I size them. I always looked at that little 9mm case as no big deal to size, but after lubing them up and then loading some that have already been sized, I am not so sure that tapered case is so easy to size as I always ASSumed. I put the new die in the 650, and glued the insert back in the old die and used it in the APP to size about 12k lubricated cases and it took little more effort than if I was just knocking the primers out. I think I have loaded about 1k of the pre-sized cases and it does make the loading process easier and smoother. Now my process is to run the sized cases through the APP to swage the primer pockets, and then wet tumble. Without the primers they dry on a towel in probably a day, maybe even overnight.

[willie]

This has always been my understanding as well, but I recently had the carbide pull loose out of a Lee die and was surprised how large the carbide insert actually was. It was not large enough to completely envelope the entire case, but covered the majority of it. So maybe the Lee carbide die insert might be a little more tapered and would be exactly what the OP is looking for?

Also, this happened to my Lee die after thousands and thousands of rounds. It was out of their warranty period so I just bought another one (remember you can buy a Lee sizing die separately). One reason I did was because I wanted a second sizing die for use in my Lee APP press. This is not germane to this conversation, but I wanted the APP to swage primer pockets, so obviously they have to get the primers punched out, and if I am going to run them through to deprime then I can go ahead and size them, and if I am going to wet tumble before loading then I can lubricate them when I size them. I always looked at that little 9mm case as no big deal to size, but after lubing them up and then loading some that have already been sized, I am not so sure that tapered case is so easy to size as I always ASSumed. I put the new die in the 650, and glued the insert back in the old die and used it in the APP to size about 12k lubricated cases and it took little more effort than if I was just knocking the primers out. I think I have loaded about 1k of the pre-sized cases and it does make the loading process easier and smoother. Now my process is to run the sized cases through the APP to swage the primer pockets, and then wet tumble. Without the primers they dry on a towel in proU wpbably a day, maybe even overnight.

My guess is that the Lee insert lacks a taper. Instead it's larger size facilitates gluing to the die body. Within the universe of 9mm resize dies there is much variation in dimensions. 9mm brass has an immensely large variation in case thickness. Mechanical advantage of presses varies within brands among models offered. 9mm cases are thick from the middle down to the case head to withstand the round's high pressure. Manufactures err on the side of oversizing and not undersizing.
My point is that figuring out the many variables in loading 9mm ammo is not easy.

If I were concerned with loading super target ammo in this caliber, I would have Bar Sto install a target barrel. Next I would send fired cases from from this barrel to CH4D and have them make a 4 die set. The size die would match the chamber. I would specify steel and not carbide dies. Further I would ask them to produce a custom expander. But this level of precision is not needed for most of us. Years ago I lucked into three cases of Federal 9mm match ammo labeled as target match and loaded with a fmj muted swc profile. This stuff will really roll a can. Have not seen it since. Never saw it before.

[mmc45414]

My guess is that the Lee insert lacks a taper. Instead it's larger size facilitates gluing to the die body.
That would make sense, it certainly would be a more complicated process to make a tapered insert.

[farscott]

The Redding Competition Pro set 58172 might get you there. The set has a carbide sizing die, which is also available separately as 87172. The die set is specifically meant for progressive machines with radii sized for easy case entry into the die.

[Greg]

You can’t ever go wrong with Redding dies.

In 9mm, I have Hornady and Dillon, and they both produce wasp waisted rounds.

[CCT125US]

You can’t ever go wrong with Redding dies.

In 9mm, I have Hornady and Dillon, and they both produce wasp waisted rounds.

Forgot about Redding, I do like the set screw on the lock ring.

[mmc45414]

Is this what we are talking about? These have been through the Lee that I had to glue back together.

61195

They do look straight at the top, that is probably the transition point where the insert topped out when it was pulled out.

[Hambo]

Working up a subsonic load on the D650 using a Berry's 147 HHP, paired with Unique. Issue is, for those not familiar with the Dillon 9mm size /deprime die, it creates an hour glass shape. This is a common and known occurrence, also known as wasp waist.

It's not common or known to me. I use a Dillon sizer/depriming die, and RCBS seating and taper crimp dies in my Dillon.

[CCT125US]

61424

Learn something new every day.

[Hambo]

Learn something new every day.

OK, but mine don't look or measure out like that.

[358156hp]

Carbide 9mm dies generally have a full case length carbide insert. 9mm is a tapered case of course, and this is the reason many 9mm carbide sizing dies are on the pricey side. 45 acp can use a shorter sizing ring because the case is straight-walled. I use an elderly Hornady Durachrome carbide sizer for my cases, it's at least 30 years old, but it lacks the big radius at the die mouth that everybody wants for their progressive presses. I don't like the late model progressive press style sizing dies because I want the entire case length sized.

Oddly, I went back to using steel sizing dies for straight wall revolver cases, even though it means I have to lube them. I primarily shoot PC cast bullets in revolvers and hate to see my cases al end up under-sized from carbide sizing rings. I figure I have to tumble the cases anyway, so it's no big deal.