RFI: BCM 11.5” GTG?

[Totem Polar]

Thanks for your indulgence; a search brings up much detritus. If I can grab a BCM 11 AR pistol w/SBA3 brace, any reason not to?
TIA.

[GJM]

Thanks for your indulgence; a search brings up much detritus. If I can grab a BCM 11 AR pistol w/SBA3 brace, any reason not to?
TIA.

I have one and like it. Use it with a Cherry Bomb, Omega and Plan B.

[Clusterfrack]

My BCM 11.5” ELW fluted is my favorite upper. It works great suppressed or unsuppressed.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200918/cabdb9a8f272c5b88a888bea97b1d036.jpg

[gtmtnbiker98]

My experience, pretty much anything BCM is GTG.

[SecondsCount]

My son has one and runs it hard without any issues.

[LittleLebowski]

Rock solid, love mine.

[Totem Polar]

Perfect, thanks, gents. I’ll see what I can do.
:)

[Wake27]

I love BCM but they sound like they may not be the most balanced on gas. From what I’ve seen and heard (no personal experience) they have produced 11.5 carbine barrels with gas ports anywhere from .073 to .076. The former is likely a good balance but the latter is probably overgassed. I have no doubts that it’ll still work but personally I’d prefer it on the smaller end. I don’t know if these are normal variances (doubt it) or they went from one to the other over time and if so, whether they opened it up or shrink it down. I do know that several people have asked and BCM refuses to answer.


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[Clusterfrack]

The 3 11.5 BCMs I have experience with are not overgassed.

[DpdG]

Work rifle is a BCM 11.5” standard barrel upper/BCG on a 3 pin Commando lower. Runs great, no issues, although rate of fire is slightly higher than the 20-25k round Colt 933 upper it replaced.

[Casual Friday]

I love BCM but they sound like they may not be the most balanced on gas. From what I’ve seen and heard (no personal experience) they have produced 11.5 carbine barrels with gas ports anywhere from .073 to .076. The former is likely a good balance but the latter is probably overgassed. I have no doubts that it’ll still work but personally I’d prefer it on the smaller end. I don’t know if these are normal variances (doubt it) or they went from one to the other over time and if so, whether they opened it up or shrink it down. I do know that several people have asked and BCM refuses to answer.


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I've experienced that variation in gas port sizes first hand. The .073 was on a .625" ELW barrel and the .076 was on a .750" govt profile barrel. The only explanation I could find is an old thread on either LF or M4C that alluded to the theory that they went with the larger port on the larger diameter barrel to offset the gas traveling that extra .0625" through the gas port. That was a theory and not from BCM.

It makes sense, but at the same time seems like it wouldn't or shouldn't matter unless it was on the ragged edge of reliability, which anything with a .07 measurement on an 11.5" barrel is certainly not on the edge of reliability.

Totem Polar every BCM upper I have owned has been great, even if they are a little generous with the gas port. It's not that bad, and nothing like the OG MK18 with the .082" gas port that chewed through gas rings every 2500 rounds. If you find one I think you'd be well served by it.

With that said, my 6933 absolutely dunked on the BCM 11.5" uppers I had. It was softer shooting while still maintaining reliability across many different ammo types, and consistently held tighter groups at 100.

[Totem Polar]

Good info. The one I had a line on sold (go figure), but they’re a notch up on the watchlist over the general opinion here.

[RancidSumo]

I've got a brand new 11.5" BCM ELW fluted barrel in the mail that will end up posted on the EE when it arrives. Just in case anyone needs one and wants to save me the restocking fee . . .

Not sure if this type of post is permitted outside of the EE - apologies and please let me know if not.

[TC215]

I bought an 11.5 BCM pistol and SBR'd it. I really like it so far, no issues.

https://i.imgur.com/uZzOgoe.jpg

[Sensei]

My N of 3 BCMs that were purchased over the past 7 years or so have been outstanding. BCM is one of the best values out there, IMHO.

[Up1911Fan]

I've got the lower, still trying to track down a BCM 11.5 upper.

[rd62]

I've got a brand new 11.5" BCM ELW fluted barrel in the mail that will end up posted on the EE when it arrives. Just in case anyone needs one and wants to save me the restocking fee . . .

Not sure if this type of post is permitted outside of the EE - apologies and please let me know if not.

I may be interested

[Mike C]

Would I be too hipster for saying get a 12.5? I just don't see the point of going less than that and not having 300 BLK unless cost is a factor.

[Casual Friday]

Would I be too hipster for saying get a 12.5? I just don't see the point of going less than that and not having 300 BLK unless cost is a factor.

A 12.5 won't fit in my backpack.

[Mike C]

A 12.5 won't fit in my backpack.

Bummer, but I completely understand.

[Totem Polar]

Would I be too hipster for saying get a 12.5? I just don't see the point of going less than that and not having 300 BLK unless cost is a factor.

Alright, guys, let’s talk about that for a sec: another of my friendly LGS has a 9” BCM w/SBA3 in .300 black just sitting there mocking people who don’t understand the cartridge. Which is me. Seriously, it’s embarrassing how little I know about the short AR. I go from a guy who’s gun handling and questions inspire every sales guy in the store to snap to attention to bring me range rods and multiple guns to a guy that they all look at like “what a fucking moron” the minute you pull the handguns from my grasp and put one of these AR pistols in.

.300 Black in the braced pistol as an only AR: go, or no go? I’ve considered having a buddy from here help me build a short .300, but I don’t know what I don’t know.

[Duelist]

Alright, guys, let’s talk about that for a sec: another of my friendly LGS has a 9” BCM w/SBA3 in .300 black just sitting there mocking people who don’t understand the cartridge. Which is me. Seriously, it’s embarrassing how little I know about the short AR. I go from a guy who’s gun handling and questions inspire every sales guy in the store to snap to attention to bring me range rods and multiple guns to a guy that they all look at like “what a fucking moron” the minute you pull the handguns from my grasp and put one of these AR pistols in.

.300 Black in the braced pistol as an only AR: go, or no go? I’ve considered having a buddy from here help me build a short .300, but I don’t know what I don’t know.

What do you want to do with it/want it to be able to do?

[Mike C]

Totem Polar we can't all be an encyclopedia for everything. Well, maybe some can but I am not that guy so I see no shame in not knowing everything especially, if you are willing to seek knowledge where you can; and you regularly strike me as a gentleman of sorts who seeks to improve his own shortcomings. While I am no expert I have spent a lot of time with the cartridge. 300 Blackout is very good in a certain envelope but it comes at a cost. Including feeding and housing. I would sum it all up to this: if you are in a large urban area where engagement lengths are short, spaces are confined, intermediate barrier penetration is a premium as is size for getting in and out of vehicles and concealing the weapon 300 Blackout if fucking KING. Rifle ballistics within reason in the most compact weapon possible. If built right absolutely reliable.

If you want to have it as your only longish gun I would ask myself these questions:

1. How often might I used or train with it?
2. What is the likelihood I will need it?
3. Does the likely hood of needing it outweigh the cost of not having it when needed? (Me for example, I have small kids that are with me 24/7 so I can't retreat or get away).
4. Do I have the above listed needs?
5. Does it fill all these needs, or is there something that fits my needs better. Additionally can my issue be solved with training vs hardware?
6. Does the capability of feeding it exist? Accessibility to ammo/logistics matter.
7. Does the cost of feeding and training with it matter?

I feel I've already greatly detracted from the OP's question. You can PM me if you want to hear anything else I've experienced or if you have any specific questions. I would be happy to share anything I can perhaps I can save you from spending unnecessarily or making the same mistakes I made.

ETA: if 5 doesn't apply and 6, 7 do get a short 5.56mm and call it done. Normally I would say get an 11.5" but the 12.5 is probably better so long as it would be discrete enough. Just my .02 and worth what you paid for it. Hope this helps you.

[Darth_Uno]

I’ve got two builds with 11.5” BCM ELW barrels and they run like wanted felons. Definitely can’t go wrong with BCM.

[Wake27]

.300 BLK is expensive, harder to find, and has significant drop off at around 250m IIRC. But it’s very effective inside of that range and you can go very short on it and suppress it well. It definitely wouldn’t be a bad “only AR” but I’d still pick 5.56.

I have a quality 12.5 complete upper built around a Hodge barrel that’s listed elsewhere if you’re interested. It’s more expensive than the BCM but it’s very capable and if I only had one and was in an NFA/AR pistol friendly state, it’d be a 12.5.


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[Mike C]

.300 BLK is expensive, harder to find, and has significant drop off at around 250m IIRC. But it’s very effective inside of that range and you can go very short on it and suppress it well. It definitely wouldn’t be a bad “only AR” but I’d still pick 5.56.

I have a quality 12.5 complete upper built around a Hodge barrel that’s listed elsewhere if you’re interested. It’s more expensive than the BCM but it’s very capable and if I only had one and was in an NFA/AR pistol friendly state, it’d be a 12.5.


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I believe SBR's are a no go in WA State but pistols are GTG IIRC.

[Totem Polar]

What do you want to do with it/want it to be able to do?

Just PDW stuff. Sort of a get it while you can deal. Plus, I’m getting tired of all my LEO buddies looking at me like I have 16 eyes when they find out that I’ve never owned an AR.
:)


Totem Polar I would sum it all up to this: if you are in a large urban area where engagement lengths are short, spaces are confined, intermediate barrier penetration is a premium as is size for getting in and out of vehicles and concealing the weapon 300 Blackout if fucking KING. Rifle ballistics within reason in the most compact weapon possible. If built right absolutely reliable.
Solid, thanks.



I feel I've already greatly detracted from the OP's question. You can PM me if you want to hear anything else I've experienced or if you have any specific questions. I would be happy to share anything I can perhaps I can save you from spending unnecessarily or making the same mistakes I made.

Don’t sweat the drift, since I’m the OP on this one. :)
I appreciate the offer and input.

1-7 really isn’t a need thing. This is more a get an AR while I can thing, and I certainly enjoy a good training class as much as the next P-F’er. That said, I doubt if I’ll ever own more than one. I’m thinking about the braced pistol weapon system just because it can travel with me in places and ways where a standard M4gery cannot.

Most def urban, and compressed space. Plus, the idea of subsonic appeals to me as well. A can is one of the few cool toys that one can easily acquire in WA that isn’t a Ducati or something.

[Wake27]

Just PDW stuff. Sort of a get it while you can deal. Plus, I’m getting tired of all my LEO buddies looking at me like I have 16 eyes when they find out that I’ve never owned an AR.
:)


Solid, thanks.



Don’t sweat the drift, since I’m the OP on this one. :)
I appreciate the offer and input.

1-7 really isn’t a need thing. This is more a get an AR while I can thing, and I certainly enjoy a good training class as much as the next P-F’er. That said, I doubt if I’ll ever own more than one. I’m thinking about the braced pistol weapon system just because it can travel with me in places and ways where a standard M4gery cannot.

Most def urban, and compressed space. Plus, the idea of subsonic appeals to me as well. A can is one of the few cool toys that one can easily acquire in WA that isn’t a Ducati or something.

I’ve taken a bunch of AR classes, like a few weeks worth. I don’t know of anyone in any of those classes shooting .300BLK. I assume that’s entirely because of price which is a much better trade off than performance but not if it’s cost prohibitive to train. 5.56/.223 is cheaper and IMO, more versatile. I know there are threads and posts on here arguing against it but the shortest I’d go on a 5.56 is 10.3. 11.5 is a good balance as is 12.5. A true 14.5 is still decent but 16.1 OAL gets a bit longer than I prefer for GP use though many people don’t mind 16” barrels so more like 17” OAL.

I’m consolidating guns which is why I’m selling my 12.5. I’m active army and have to move around so AR pistol/NFA friendliness is less sure for me than people that are happily planted in red states, therefore I’ll always have some 14.5 pinned guns. Currently I have a 10.3 and 12.5 for shortties but that’s what I’m consolidating into 11.5. Bottom line being if I only had one AR, it’d be a 12.5 continuous tapered profile barrel of some sort in 5.56 with an MLOK rail and LPVO. Since I can have two, it’s a pinned 14.5 with LPVO and 11.5 with RDS.

All IMO, but I love the AR and and far more picky about it than most people.


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[Duelist]

Sounds like a short, braced .300 BO could be the way to go, then.

[Caballoflaco]

An advantage of getting an ar pistol first (in whatever caliber) is that you can always pickup a 14.5 pinned or 16” upper and stock to put on it later if you want to.

You can turn a pistol into a rifle and back to a pistol but not the reverse.

[UNM1136]

I’ve taken a bunch of AR classes, like a few weeks worth. I don’t know of anyone in any of those classes shooting .300BLK. I assume that’s entirely because of price which is a much better trade off than performance but not if it’s cost prohibitive to train. 5.56/.223 is cheaper and IMO, more versatile. I know there are threads and posts on here arguing against it but the shortest I’d go on a 5.56 is 10.3. 11.5 is a good balance as is 12.5. A true 14.5 is still decent but 16.1 OAL gets a bit longer than I prefer for GP use though many people don’t mind 16” barrels so more like 17” OAL.

I’m consolidating guns which is why I’m selling my 12.5. I’m active army and have to move around so AR pistol/NFA friendliness is less sure for me than people that are happily planted in red states, therefore I’ll always have some 14.5 pinned guns. Currently I have a 10.3 and 12.5 for shortties but that’s what I’m consolidating into 11.5. Bottom line being if I only had one AR, it’d be a 12.5 continuous tapered profile barrel of some sort in 5.56 with an MLOK rail and LPVO. Since I can have two, it’s a pinned 14.5 with LPVO and 11.5 with RDS.

All IMO, but I love the AR and and far more picky about it than most people.


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I need to get one to play with DOPE and zeroing info in the event the next multi-agency class I help teach has a student with one. The round has been around long enough that I am sure some agencies are running them, and we have a lot of <10 officer agencies that tend to be early adopters of the everything because the have an advocate an little administration/training input. The first agency in the state to approve MRDS kn duty pistols was such an agency. Hence my resolve to get the kids lowers with 300BO kits if my Gov pushes her AWB agenda in the next year or two. And 6.5G. For the children.

pat

[RancidSumo]

I would not buy a 300blk as your only AR in Sept. 2020 unless you are either (a) a multimillionaire or (b) sitting on a huge stockpile of small rifle primers and have the time to convert 556 brass. I put quite a bit of money into building what I thought to be the perfect 300blk and now it gathers a lot of dust.

[Rex G]

It is FAR less problematic to get .223/5.56 ammo. I was encountering 1-box- and 3-boxes-per-customer limits, which morphed into unavailable/back-ordered. 60 rounds is the absolute minimum I would want, in order to vet just one magazine, for just that one bullet configuration. I’d rather have twice that much, or more, per mag. I shifted my attention to other ammo, and will re-visit 300 BLK after the current panic season. I may well install a 16” 5.56 upper, on my LAW-foldered DDM4 V7P’s lower, and put the DD’s 300 BLK upper in the back of the big safe.

Hand-loading is an option, of course, for 300 AAC/BLK users. I do not have a nice, peaceful, clean, peaceful, dry, peaceful space to work. As I understand it, components are not the easiest things to find, lately. Plus, I am the clumsy type, who tends to drop whole 5.56 cartridges, while loading mags. I’d better start my hand-loading experiments with something like .45-70 Government, using a hand-press that I can carry on a road trip, to a peaceful place. (I already bought the hand press, but have not completed the set-up.) Others’ mileage vary vary.

As for having an AR15, well, yes, because this is the United States of America. Because Lexington, Concord, and Ia Drang. Because P-F. Because if I come to the aid of a fallen LEO, or a fallen Guardsman/soldier, I want to know how to work his rifle, whether to secure it, clear it, or use it. (Consider traffic collisions, and such, not just criminal incidents.) Other battle-field pick-up and take-it-away-from-bad-guys scenarios come to mind.

[MGW]

I want a 11.5 or 12.5” 556 pistol to attach my (in NFA jail) surefire suppressor to in a bad way. A BCM seems like a no brainer. Now, where’s the best place to buy one?

[Casual Friday]

I believe SBR's are a no go in WA State but pistols are GTG IIRC.

Wrong. SBR's were legalized in 2014.

[JohnO]

11.5" BCM uppers with a pinned & welded muzzle device have been real popular here in CT. Blasters with barrels over 12" when properly configured (pistol brace, forward vertical hand grip & OAL > 26") fit into the definition of an "other" and are not banned by the CT AW laws.

[littlejerry]

I want a 11.5 or 12.5” 556 pistol to attach my (in NFA jail) surefire suppressor to in a bad way. A BCM seems like a no brainer. Now, where’s the best place to buy one?

I built a 12.5 for my new Turbo K. Not BCM, but it's fantastic. With the can mounted it's about an inch shorter than my 16" rifle.

BRT 12.5 barrel + A5 buffer system makes it a dream to shoot.

[JohnO]

I built a 12.5 for my new Turbo K. Not BCM, but it's fantastic. With the can mounted it's about an inch shorter than my 16" rifle.

BRT 12.5 barrel + A5 buffer system makes it a dream to shoot.

+1,000 for the A5 system. Smoother recoil impulse. Additionally something often overlooked, more gusto to return the bolt into battery. Not a significant factor for the hobbyist but if it is a lifesaving working gun it will keep your blaster running when other systems will choke on dirt and fouling.

[Doc_Glock]

Hell yes! Love mine.


Edit: I am referring to the 11.5” and I see I am late to the love pile on. It’s amazing and my favorite upper.

[Clusterfrack]

I want a 11.5 or 12.5” 556 pistol to attach my (in NFA jail) surefire suppressor to in a bad way. A BCM seems like a no brainer. Now, where’s the best place to buy one?

Woah, all out of stock at BCM. This is crazy!

[Casual Friday]

Woah, all out of stock at BCM. This is crazy!

A few weeks ago I got the in stock email notification for a 9" QRF handguard and made the purchase immediately. By the time I was done checking out, they were back OOS.

[Mike C]

Just PDW stuff. Sort of a get it while you can deal. Plus, I’m getting tired of all my LEO buddies looking at me like I have 16 eyes when they find out that I’ve never owned an AR.
:)


Solid, thanks.



Don’t sweat the drift, since I’m the OP on this one. :)
I appreciate the offer and input.

1-7 really isn’t a need thing. This is more a get an AR while I can thing, and I certainly enjoy a good training class as much as the next P-F’er. That said, I doubt if I’ll ever own more than one. I’m thinking about the braced pistol weapon system just because it can travel with me in places and ways where a standard M4gery cannot.

Most def urban, and compressed space. Plus, the idea of subsonic appeals to me as well. A can is one of the few cool toys that one can easily acquire in WA that isn’t a Ducati or something.

Ha it was late and I get half retarded as the sun goes down. Going to a class would be a bit more expensive with one but not too much more than 5.56. Wolf is bringing in 300 Blackout at reasonable prices off Target Sports USA, or at least was. So long as the gun would run steel case, (which makes me cringe) why not go for it. Even if you don't run it a lot and just shoot it and enjoy it a bit it's America, at least for now. Go for it.

[Darth_Uno]

Woah, all out of stock at BCM. This is crazy!

Good luck finding anything right now. Primary Arms has 11.5" Geissele pistols in stock...for $2150. "I'll just build my own!" Great, if you can find a forged lower or good barrel (plenty of 16-18" out there though). If you want in the game right now, you're gonna pay to play.

[Casual Friday]

Great, if you can find a forged lower...

I can find plenty. On the top shelf in my safe. :cool:

I have friends that have always thought it was weird that I keep a half dozen or so lowers and LPKs on hand. They get it now.

[Mike C]

Wrong. SBR's were legalized in 2014.

Relax man and dial it down a notch.

[Casual Friday]

Relax man and dial it down a notch.

Huh?

[Mike C]

Huh?

Guess I am just having a shitty day. My apologies then for taking that the wrong day.

[Casual Friday]

Guess I am just having a shitty day. My apologies then for taking that the wrong day.

No worries. I was short with my response but I didn't mean any offense by it.

[5pins]

Right now is not time to get into the weeds of a .300 BO. If you find a 5.56 BCM pistol at a good price then grab it and run like Forest Gump.

[mmc45414]

Is the BCM 300BO still sitting on a shelf? That might influence the process.

Also, since you do not have anything that means you would not be adding something. It might be harder to find ammo, but easier to find the actual gun.

Also in 9-12mo from now you maybe wish you had 5.56 you can troll around for just an upper (remember the upper is just a mail order component). Or maybe by the time things are more normal the availability of 300BO ammo is also.

Last point, saying you will probably only ever have one ever is typically just silly talk, and a second upper is the gateway drug...




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[SLUZENE]

If I had to have one AR to cover me for most things it would be a 11.5" 5.56 with pistol lower w/brace, LVPO with a T2 on the side.

And that's basically what I did a while back. Bought a pair of 11.5" and 14.5" BCM MCMRs with SiCo 556 flash hiders. They ride either on an ambi SBR lower or ambi LMT pistol lower (not suggesting ambi for others, just noting specs) with colt or SOLGW LPK. Easy button meets duty grade. I can't report back on longevity though, especially during these times. #2020isnuts (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2020isnuts)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFAyOS8liJM

[rd62]

I wish BCM made a 12.5 with mid gas. I'd replace my 10.5 LMT with that all day.

[TCB]

60944
Personal SBR I put together in 2014...
60945
Current work gun I was issued a year or so ago...

Both 11.5” BCM uppers over Colt lowers.

11.5” BCM uppers over Colt M4A1 lowers are being issued wildly to line Agents throughout the U.S. Border Patrol as part of our rifle upgrade program and have been in use for many years with our BORTAC Operators. They have been outstanding.