300 Blackout Bolt Actions

[EricP]

I’ve been wanting to build a 300 Blk bolt action pistol or SBR for some time. Because of the pistol, I’m looking at bare receivers. That pretty much leaves Remington 700 and Howa mini actions. TBone550 mentioned Tikkas which I don’t think are available as a bare receiver, but maybe this thread will be of use to him too.

I’ve read that ejection on a 700 action with a short cartridge case like the 300 can be problematic. I’ve seen discussions of lengthening ejector travel or modifying bolts for Sako or AR extractors. I’m hoping to avoid machining.

Has anyone here built a 300 Blk on a 700 action and dealt with the possible ejection issues?

The Howa action is a possibility, but I haven’t seen one in person. I have read reports critical of the proprietary magazines. Replacement Howa barrels are not as plentiful as Remington/Remage.

Anyone used the Howa mini action?

Are there other options that I’m overlooking?

[EricP]

60247
Inspirational pic from the Black Collar Arms website.

[Welder]

I haven't 100% decided on the Tikka, but it's close. Here's what I think I know so far. What few mentions of it being used in a BLK application all say it works well, and there's no mention of feeding issues. What I'd actually like would be one of the new CTR's in .223 that's "available" (not really) in the US, because it'd be nice to stick with the CTR / Sako double-stack mags that come in that model and in the TAC A1. AFAIK, the other T3x models all come with single-stack mags which limits to 6 rounds in the optional larger size. I'm pretty sure that the Tikka receivers are milled differently on the bottom depending if they're going into a double- or single-stack gun, making it not a simple matter of switching stocks and bottom metal to go to double-stack. I'm not really interested in going AICS.

But when I think about my uses for this rifle, it's for plinking and around the house or farm...I want more than a single-shot but realistically I don't need a 10-rd mag. Which is why I'm currently thinking just buy a run-of-the-mill T3x Lite at $550 and not overthink the single-stack issue. If I need more rounds on tap, it's time for an AR.

There's a used early AAC / Remington Micro Seven on GB right now, tempting me at $550. They're well known for ejection issues and so I had them run loaded cartridges in and out of the receiver on video for proof of ejector function....but then found out the problem only happens with fired cases. The fix I can find mentioned most is installing a Sako extractor. Supposedly the later ones had the issues fixed; there were two runs of the AAC / Model 7 rifles. At some point, the receiver markings on the left side changed with the early models having the large cursive "Model Seven" script, and the later ones having "Remington Arms Co Ilion NY" on a small top line and "MODEL 7 300 BLK" on the second line. I don't know if this change occurred between model runs or at another point. This particular rifle also comes with a 51T 3-prong AAC flash hider / suppressor mount, which was added later. The other points on the AAC Model 7 I can find are that the scope mount holes are enlarged compared to the standard Model 7; the AAC ones are 8-40, it included a 20 MOA picatinny rail, the barrel is threaded 5/8-24, the stock has a thumbscrew-adjustable cheekpiece, the whole rifle is nitrided in and out, and that there should be a spacer in the magazine which some rifles were missing from the factory and which caused feeding problems when absent. Finally, at least some case ejection problems were found to be caused by the ejected rounds bouncing off of scope rings or other stuff mounted in the cartridge ejection path.

Basically the AAC Micro Seven is a great concept but a crap-shoot, it's been out of production for years, and for my purposes I don't think I want to take a chance on a pig in a poke. Even though at most you just roll the rifle on it's right side after every firing to let the extracted-but-not-ejected brass roll out. I think that would annoy me to no end and I'd be aggravated having to pay for gunsmithing work to fix something that should've worked from the factory.

The newer Model Sevens in .300 BLK which are available with camo plastic stocks seem to be getting good reviews, and I haven't seen any feeding issues reported so far. These look like copies of the original AAC model but with different stocks (without adjustable cheekpieces), and idk if the scope bolt holes are still enlarged or not. The rail looks the same. Cheapest one I could find online was $606. Really tempting but as of tonight I'm still thinking Tikka. I want a *nice* rifle when I'm done; this will be the first bolt rifle I've built since an '09 Argentine Mauser when I was 14. Times have really changed since then.

[El Cid]

Haven’t read reviews on it and never seen one in the wild. But every time I see the pic I start trying to justify one in my collection.

https://www.liveqordie.com/products/mini-fix-300-blk-pistol/

[ranger]

As best I can tell - you cannot just buy a Tikka action - you buy a rifle and strip it down to the action and (hopefully) sell the stock, barrel, etc.

I recently built a Savage 223 for a long range trainer. Bought a Cabelas 10T and removed barrel (sold on eBay) and AccuStock (sold locally) then installed a Shaw 26 inch, 1-7, threaded 5/8x24 barrel to shoot 80s at extended COAL. Did all the work myself - amazed at how easy to swap barrels on a Savage. You could do same to 300 BO.

[Welder]

As best I can tell - you cannot just buy a Tikka action - you buy a rifle and strip it down to the action and (hopefully) sell the stock, barrel, etc.

Yes. Hopefully the unfired barrel's worth $150 (???), and I'm planning to just rebarrel at this point. I'd probably buy the tools and do it myself using a Criterion or similar barrel-nut style locking system. I'd give the factory stock a chance; I'm used to traditional stocks anyway.

[mmc45414]

I have the Ruger Ranch, and have not put enough rounds through it to render a valid opinion, but Magpul makes their stock and more and more barrel makers are offering jam nut barrels.

ETA: I am not comparing the Ruger to imply that it is "nice" but I do like the three lug bolt for DBM feeding.

[ranger]

Yes. Hopefully the unfired barrel's worth $150 (???), and I'm planning to just rebarrel at this point. I'd probably buy the tools and do it myself using a Criterion or similar barrel-nut style locking system. I'd give the factory stock a chance; I'm used to traditional stocks anyway.

I would do some searching on Tikka barrel swaps. 1) Tikka OEM barrels supposed to be very hard to remove - may want to research techniques there and 2) there are prefits available for Tikka that are shouldered and do not require barrel nuts (aka Savage).

[Welder]

I saw a mention of the original AAC / Model 7 having too light of a barrel contour for suppressor use, saying it needed to be heavier. Idk if the person saying that knew what they were talking about.

Is there a rule of thumb for barrel contour size vs barrel length for suppressor use? Let's say you'd like the barrel to maintain POI and accuracy for 10 shots fired in 2 minutes.

[OlongJohnson]

As best I can tell - you cannot just buy a Tikka action - you buy a rifle and strip it down to the action and (hopefully) sell the stock, barrel, etc.

e_stern - how about some non-barreled Tikka actions? I think the market is ready.

[Welder]

e_stern - how about some non-barreled Tikka actions? I think the market is ready.

And e_stern while you're at it, why not a Tikka competitor for the other short threaded .300 BLK rifles on the market? Have it use the double-stack CTR mags, not the single-stacks the hunting rifles are using. The other major manufacturers' rifles on the market are functional, but I believe Tikka would get a pretty big share due to the added quality.

[EricP]

e_stern - how about some non-barreled Tikka actions? I think the market is ready.

I think this is a great idea and for a variety of projects rolling around in my head.

[Clusterfrack]

I have not, but my buddies who have built on Rem 700 actions for other calibers are all sorry. These weren’t a great design before Remington’s QC took a dive.

[EricP]

Haven’t read reviews on it and never seen one in the wild. But every time I see the pic I start trying to justify one in my collection.

https://www.liveqordie.com/products/mini-fix-300-blk-pistol/

That, at least in part, probably started this idea. They do think highly of them though.

Remington has the knock off version in the 700CP, but you can’t find them anywhere (in 300 Blk).

https://www.remington.com/handguns/700-cp

[EricP]

I have not, but my buddies who have built on Rem 700 actions for other calibers are all sorry. These weren’t a great design before Remington’s QC took a dive.

That is a large part of my concern. Taking a caliber known to have issues in that action and the current production receivers problems and it sounds like a whole lot of frustration.

I was really hoping to find a first hand and easy fix.

How’s the 300 PRC?

[Clusterfrack]

EricP Agree. Have you thought about just loading subsonic.308?

The 300PRC is fucking awesome. I’ve only shot 50 rounds so far but I am already in love. A 10lb gun that can send a 225gr supersonic past a mile! I’ve only shot it to 1350, but so far Hornady’s 3-part G7 BC data are spot on.

I’m really digging the ARC Nucleus action as well.

[OlongJohnson]

Have you thought about just loading subsonic.308?

This. The .300 BLK is awesome if you can feed from AR mags, but if that's not on the table and you're just going to have 4-5 rounds in an ordinary box mag in a hunting gun, the reloading bench might be a cheaper solution than a gunsmith.

I have a plan to work up a load of the 120-gr Barnes black tip that doesn't quite work as good as it looks in .300 BLK to about 2500-2600 fps from a .308. Should be very soft-shooting for old-busted shoulders and small people (both youngsters and wimminfolk) and effective well past where .300 starts being iffy.

The other argument for a dedicated .300 BLK bolt gun is overall compactness, i.e., "mini" action size. Gets the overall size and weight down. However, I'll just note that compact stocks for Tikkas are readily available. Saw a CTR stock with the stickers still on it go for $85 shipped last week on another site.

[Grouse870]

https://jtacindustries.com/collections/firearms-1/products/complete-elf-owl-pistol
Something like this?

[OlongJohnson]

There's a discussion in the PDW thread of AR pistols set up with no or folding RE (like a BRN-180), shortened bolt carrier, side charging handle and no gas system. A manually-cycled pistol. Turns out they suppress really well.

[Welder]

There's a discussion in the PDW thread of AR pistols set up with no or folding RE (like a BRN-180), shortened bolt carrier, side charging handle and no gas system. A manually-cycled pistol. Turns out they suppress really well.

So basically a straight-pull bolt action. That's interesting. I learned to shoot with my Dad's T-Bolt, it's a really fast action.

[Robinson]

Basically the AAC Micro Seven is a great concept but a crap-shoot, it's been out of production for years, and for my purposes I don't think I want to take a chance on a pig in a poke.

I have the AAC Micro Seven, which I had modified to accept a DBM. The only problem I've had is that the magazine springs were designed for 5.56 ammo and not the heavier 300 BLK bullets. So I had to remove the spring and stretch it, then reinstall it -- which seems to have resolved the issue. But I've only been using it with 110 grain bullets.

I bought the rifle before Ruger released their version of the American Ranch that uses AR mags, or I probably would have ended up with one of those instead.



I saw a mention of the original AAC / Model 7 having too light of a barrel contour for suppressor use, saying it needed to be heavier. Idk if the person saying that knew what they were talking about.

Is there a rule of thumb for barrel contour size vs barrel length for suppressor use? Let's say you'd like the barrel to maintain POI and accuracy for 10 shots fired in 2 minutes.

I haven't noticed the Micro Seven stringing shots more than any other rifle with a similar barrel profile. And I only shoot it with a suppressor installed.

[Rex G]

I have been thinking about Uinta Precision:


https://uintahprecision.com/

[EricP]

Have you thought about just loading subsonic.308?

I had not. The idea of larger volume case and tiny powder charges gave me pause. I read into it some last night and pistol powders were completely off the table (other than maybe Unique, is there anything it can't do?). It seems like the go to powder is Trail Boss.

I found this data from Hodgdon:

Hodgdon Subsonic Load Data (https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/subsonic-data-final.pdf)

Hodgdon H4895 60% Rule (https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf)


This. The .300 BLK is awesome if you can feed from AR mags, but if that's not on the table and you're just going to have 4-5 rounds in an ordinary box mag in a hunting gun, the reloading bench might be a cheaper solution than a gunsmith.

I have a plan to work up a load of the 120-gr Barnes black tip that doesn't quite work as good as it looks in .300 BLK to about 2500-2600 fps from a .308. Should be very soft-shooting for old-busted shoulders and small people (both youngsters and wimminfolk) and effective well past where .300 starts being iffy.

The other argument for a dedicated .300 BLK bolt gun is overall compactness, i.e., "mini" action size. Gets the overall size and weight down. However, I'll just note that compact stocks for Tikkas are readily available. Saw a CTR stock with the stickers still on it go for $85 shipped last week on another site.

My plan was to use 10 round MDT polymer AICS magazines in a chassis like the Pork Sword, Brownells/MDT or JTAC (pistol) or KRG (SBR). The compact bolt gun was the draw, as well as I like to have more than one gun in a particular caliber.

I would also like the ability to shoot supersonics, which is what I mostly do know anyway. I'm not sure how well a pistol brace would stand up to 308 super or how much I'd want to shoot it out of ~10" barrel.

[EricP]

https://jtacindustries.com/collections/firearms-1/products/complete-elf-owl-pistol
Something like this?

That is certainly the idea. I think I have seen it before. Do you have one? Can you speak to the Howa mini action magazines?


I have been thinking about Uinta Precision:

https://uintahprecision.com/

That's interesting. The trigger compatibility thing is odd. I wonder why Geissele won't work.

[Grouse870]

No I don’t. Just found it while looking for something else. The mags give me pause just due to the propriety nature. If it took AR mags it would be much better I think.

[OlongJohnson]

There have been many reports of Howa Mini actions having trouble feeding Grendel. I don't know if there's a settled fix for it, but the reports were that Legacy was typically not helpful. I don't believe the problem carries over to other cartridges.

The proprietary mags are expensive.

It seems dumb to not use AR mags, but it has occurred to me that there may be prohibitions on possessing AR mags in certain jurisdictions where Howa may want to sell these rifles. We had a poster here awhile ago who was in Japan and used a 1301 for hunting, but couldn't get approval from his overlords to acquire a Zhukov forend because it was not an accessory meant for the shotgun they had so graciously allowed him to possess. In an environment where no civilian is permitted to possess an AR, that might logically include any AR parts, such as magazines.

Of course, that's all just speculation. (AKA, making stuff up...)

[Robinson]

I figured this thread could use a picture:

60408

[Welder]

Welp, I got over my paralysis and bought a Ranch. The trigger is actually just fine, don't think I'll touch it. The bolt is sloppy and cheap, and the slop allows the lugs to not line up exactly with the locking recesses, but if you really ram it, it'll go home anyway. It'll also go home if you pay a little attention and close it normally. Stock feels fine for my purposes. My first non-AR with a threaded barrel.

I actually picked between the two on the shelf at my LGS by which one's thread cap threaded more smoothly. They were one S/N apart and one was very gritty while the other was smooth. It was the only difference I could tell between them.

I bought this as a stopgap while I wait for Tikka to come out with something. I'm not spending a ton of $$ to convert one when they might just send one over next year already made the way I like. In the meantime I have *something.*

Have not shot it.

[OlongJohnson]

I bought this as a stopgap while I wait for Tikka to come out with something. I'm not spending a ton of $$ to convert one when they might just send one over next year already made the way I like. In the meantime I have *something.*

e_stern

16.5" threaded barrel, .223 CTR bottom metal and mags.

[Welder]

e_stern

16.5" threaded barrel, .223 CTR bottom metal and mags.

That is EXACTLY what is needed. Nothing more complicated than that, do not deviate from CTR mags. e_stern

[Trigger]

That is EXACTLY what is needed. Nothing more complicated than that, do not deviate from CTR mags. e_stern

I just bought a 20” .223 CTR. Nice rifle. Compact, accurate. I’ve got 2 months to wait on the 20 VarTarg barrel I ordered. In the mean time, I’m shooting 223 through the 1:8 barrel, and it is pretty accurate.

[Welder]

I just bought a 20” .223 CTR. Nice rifle. Compact, accurate. I’ve got 2 months to wait on the 20 VarTarg barrel I ordered. In the mean time, I’m shooting 223 through the 1:8 barrel, and it is pretty accurate.

Cool man! I've had the 223 CTR on my watch list for awhile now, with intents to buy and swap to 300 BLK. But I just can't justify it when I know Tikka has enough brains to do it themselves and sell it to me and a bunch of other guys like me who want a high quality, problem-free 300 BLK bolt rifle.

[nate89]

I have a Howa mini in 300 blackout and it is honestly one of the more enjoyable rifles that I own to shoot. The trigger from the factory is a very nice two stage, the mag (while proprietary) holds 10 rounds, and I have loaded up some of the most random 300 blackout reloads in it, and it shoots pretty much everything well. I have it in the oryx chassis right now, but honestly I should have just waited and got the Elf Owl for what I got it for.

I also had a spare AR lower, so I ended up making one of those straight-pull no gas system pistols with a 6" barrel. It is also a lot of fun. It is a lot lighter and shorter, and is a lot of fun to shoot. I usually use an Omega 9k suppressor on both of them which isn't Hollywood quiet, but works well and it so short and light it doesn't impact the "light and handy" features of the Howa.