DB's Sub-1-Second Snubby Draw, Sloooooo-moooooooo

[Guerrero]

https://www.facebook.com/1199287713557074/videos/3063975830378707/

[Grey]

So slow it doesn't even load onto the page...

[Guerrero]

So slow it doesn't even load onto the page...

Loads for me. Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/1199287713557074/videos/3063975830378707/

[Grey]

Loads for me. Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/1199287713557074/videos/3063975830378707/

Thanks for that - ahh its a FB link, no wonder it doesn't load for me.

[Irelander]

Pretty cool. I wonder what pocket holster he is using there. I know he is partial to the Safariland leather ones. Wonder if that's the one in the video.

I also wonder how his draw would change for a longer shot.

[Clusterfrack]

I like the lack of shoulder movement. No telegraphing of the draw.

[camsdaddy]

Pretty cool. I wonder what pocket holster he is using there. I know he is partial to the Safariland leather ones. Wonder if that's the one in the video.

I also wonder how his draw would change for a longer shot.
Safariland in the video and he also uses Mika depending on the pocket.

[Lon]

Nice. I just dropped an Apex kit and a 442 hammer in a buddies 637 tonight so he can pocket carry it. I’ve been thinking about a 351c or 43c for lightweight pocket carry.

[03RN]

I like the lack of shoulder movement. No telegraphing of the draw.

Definitely one of my weaknesses.

[Auntie Social]

That is hotness right there!

[Rocky Racoon]

Guy has an established grip on his pistol in his pocket. Pulls out gun and points it at a target about a meter away. What is so special about this? I think I'm missing something.

[scw2]

Guy has an established grip on his pistol in his pocket. Pulls out gun and points it at a target about a meter away. What is so special about this? I think I'm missing something.

How fast is your draw from concealment from a relaxed and normal posture?

[Dennis]

When my unit was mostly plainclothes I would run a 342PD in one pocket and a LCP in the other. I could be standing around agitated people being interviewed and look perfectly casual with my hands in my pockets...

Dennis.



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[TheNewbie]

Nice. I just dropped an Apex kit and a 442 hammer in a buddies 637 tonight so he can pocket carry it. I’ve been thinking about a 351c or 43c for lightweight pocket carry.

How difficult was the hammer instillation?

[David S.]

Guy has an established grip on his pistol in his pocket. Pulls out gun and points it at a target about a meter away. What is so special about this? I think I'm missing something.

This demo is less about his incredible speed and more about the benefits of a snub-nose j-frame revolver, particularly in the pocket carry role. One thing he likes about this mode of carry is that it allows the user to pre-stage a hand on the gun while maintaining a pose that appears casual and non-threatening. That's not something you can do with standard waistline carry.

Pre-staging the hand is useful option while still in the "don't shoot yet" (Haggard) phase. As you can see, it's pretty quick.

For pocket carry applications semi auto's are more likely to hang up on the way out, making them less well suited for this application.

SeriousStudent, does that sound about right?

[Lon]

How difficult was the hammer instillation?

If you’ve done it before, easy as can be. Took me @10 minutes. The first time I took the side plate off a S&W was nerve wracking. That was way before YouTube was a thing. Gotta love YouTube how to videos now.

60130

[jetfire]

Guy has an established grip on his pistol in his pocket. Pulls out gun and points it at a target about a meter away. What is so special about this? I think I'm missing something.

Drawing from a pocket holster is fairly challenging to do quickly even with an established grip. But hey, if that's not your jam here's a 0.98 to a 4 inch circle at 5 meters


https://youtu.be/NGlkFQTy81A

[Hambo]

I think I'm missing something.

Ignorance is curable. Start by reading some threads and then you'll know the 'guy' is a respected trainer.

[Caballoflaco]

Here’s an real life example of a bad doing a pocket draw well, though his lack of shooting after the draw gets him killt in the street


https://youtu.be/1D3cRWWNyXI

[Rex G]

I like the lack of shoulder movement. No telegraphing of the draw.

Agreed!

Little details matter, so very much.

Pocket-Snubby Shoulder, the equivalent of Poker Face. ;)

[Rex G]

Guy has an established grip on his pistol in his pocket. Pulls out gun and points it at a target about a meter away. What is so special about this? I think I'm missing something.

Carefully read post #6, then carefully watch the video again.

[TCinVA]

Guy has an established grip on his pistol in his pocket. Pulls out gun and points it at a target about a meter away. What is so special about this? I think I'm missing something.

It's not a skill, it's a tactic.

It demonstrates one of the advantages of a pocket revolver...you can walk around looking casual while you have a master grip established on a revolver that can be out and on a bad guy quickly and without him realizing it's happening until it's too late.

[nalesq]

Drawing from a pocket holster is fairly challenging to do quickly even with an established grip.

How easy or difficult it is to make a quick and smooth draw from a pocket holster depends dramatically on a combination of pocket size and shape, and how chunky one’s thighs are. I think one’s skill level may also have an impact.

At my mediocre skill level, with the right jeans/shorts, it’s much, much easier for me to get consistent sub 1 second draws out of the pocket with my hand already on the grip than out of a concealed AIWB holster hand not on the grip.



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[Lex Luthier]

Now that is hot. Just as fast, hand not on pistol, to a target further away.

The guy in this video is pretty small though. I'm 6' 190. It's easy for tiny folks to move quickly. Like Muggsy Bogues is naturally going to be faster that Kobe. I doubt I could ever be that fast, but I'd like to be.

The fellow who posted that video is the fellow *in* the video. His name is Caleb Giddings.

The fellow whose smooth draw you were disparaging earlier is the head moderator of this very sub-forum (in other words, your host) and one of the more highly regarded revolver-centric instructors currently working in the US.
(His other forte is shotguns.) His name is Darryl Bolke.

Thought you might want to know these things. So you don't put your foot in your mouth, or anything like that.

[snow white]

Thanks for the heads up.

I'd like to point out I never disparaged him. In the strictest sense I perhaps disparaged the draw as I don't find it noteworthy. I didn't really understand why it brought out such strong feelings.

I can only guess that it has something to do with his moderator status or the fact that, as you say, he's a highly regarded trainer. Therefore one must not question why people are fawning over a video of him.

Again, no one has even really argued that this video of the draw is special (and some have agreed that it isn't), just that the person is special (or possibly that just the technique is special.) If you guys say so. Fair enough.

Carry on.

Its not that this one spsific draw is "special" in some way. The significance of the video comes from
1. Allot of members here pocket carry j frame revolvers
2. We practice and continue to strive to refine our skill sets in our chosen carry method.
3. Darryl bolke is considered to be an expert when it comes to just this kind of thing.

Having the ability to watch ( especially in slow mo) a person with a high skill level perform is an impressive thing and for those who know what to look for there is allot to be taken away from such an opportunity. If i watch a video of Tom Brady throw a football it means nothing to me, its just some guy throwing a ball. If i were a highschool/ college QB looking to refine my skill sets I would probably view that same video in a completely different light. Context and whatnot.

[TC215]

Faster.

We’re all looking forward to your video.

[Chuck Whitlock]

Hey, Rocky,

You do realize that the video was slow motion, don't you?

[David S.]

What you write make sense. What doesn't make sense is people fawning over it as a 'hotness' and such. The person in the video isn't the first to demonstrate the technique and didn't invent it. And at least one person has implied that it's the speed that makes it drool-worthy. .

Precisely one person made a comment that could be construed as fawning over 'hottness.' The rest were generally complimentary. Not sure why you're making a stink over it.

This was filmed during a training block about the role of snubbies and backup guns, and how to effectively train and employ them. This followed a lecture block called "Training Habits of Highly Successful Gunfighters." You see, Darryl's schtick is studying the gunfighters of yesteryear and applying what's useful to today. He makes no claim to inventing this technique. Quite the opposite, he's demonstrating that this particular old school technique with this old school gun is still relevant in an era of shot timers and Gucci guns.

You very well may have a faster draw...on demand...in front of an audience. Cool story bro. I suspect you're not his target demographic.

Cheers,
David S.

[Nephrology]

Thanks for the heads up.

I'd like to point out I never disparaged him. In the strictest sense I perhaps disparaged the draw as I don't find it noteworthy. I didn't really understand why it brought out such strong feelings.

I can only guess that it has something to do with his moderator status or the fact that, as you say, he's a highly regarded trainer. Therefore one must not question why people are fawning over a video of him.

Again, no one has even really argued that this video of the draw is special (and some have agreed that it isn't), just that the person is special (or possibly that just the technique is special.) If you guys say so. Fair enough.

Carry on.

I am certain you can find a more productive way to voice your thoughts.

[Dave T]

Rocky reminds me of that saying, the confidence of amateurs is the envy of professionals.

Dave

[camsdaddy]

If you’ve done it before, easy as can be. Took me @10 minutes. The first time I took the side plate off a S&W was nerve wracking. That was way before YouTube was a thing. Gotta love YouTube how to videos now.

60130
I dont know why Ive never thought of this. I have a 60 that I bobbed the hammer but this is so much cleaner.

[Lon]

I dont know why Ive never thought of this. I have a 60 that I bobbed the hammer but this is so much cleaner.

$15 on eBay. Figured I didn’t have much to lose by trying it.

[paherne]

I like the lack of shoulder movement. No telegraphing of the draw.

With a one second draw to shot time, he could have a sign on his chest that says, "I'm going to shoot yo in the face with a J-frame from my right trouser pocket," and you wouldn't be able to react enough to make a difference.

[Clusterfrack]

With a one second draw to shot time, he could have a sign on his chest that says, "I'm going to shoot yo in the face with a J-frame from my right trouser pocket," and you wouldn't be able to react enough to make a difference.

Some people couldn't, but some could. It's similar to a punch, and there's even less time there. People who are switched on can react to a punch if they see it coming, and shoulder movement is a key signal.

[1slow]

DB has no tells or precedes ( warning motions).

3 things I think are important about this:
1) Actual speed.
2) No preceding motion to telegraph what you are doing.
3) Established grip reduces possible fumbles.


If I make an obvious draw motion, enemy knows from the beginning something is wrong. If I mask the draw, it is further along before the enemy sees what is going wrong.

S'narc teaches about masking movement in other movement, "talking Italian" with gestures.

William Ewart Fairbairn practiced slight of hand to get a knife out before the enemy was aware it had happened.

Major Konstatin Komarov taught a class that included masking a draw in normal motion. He would walk past a person or other object and when he emerged you were looking at the training gun muzzle bearing on you.

Reminds me of the knife in a paper bag trick I was shown by guys who had grown up in very bad areas. Old sharp kitchen knife in paper bag, mouth of bag was wrapped around handle and gripped with knife in bag. A told to me, if attacked and in fear of your life, you shanked the shit out of your attacker.

[Jim Watson]

Bill Jordan said he could have a small revolver in his left pocket, draw and border shift before an opponent knew he was under attack. I think now we would just shoot with the left hand.

My Dad's boss used the bag trick, but with a pistol. He was robbed while taking the store's receipts to the bank.
He thought the punks might repeat, so the next day he put the money in his pockets, a gun in the money bag, hand in bag on gun. He took my Dad along as witness, just in case. Sure enough the punks appeared, the leader brandishing a nickel revolver. Boss just shot through the bag.

[Guerrero]

Bill Jordan said he could have a small revolver in his left pocket, draw and border shift before an opponent knew he was under attack. I think now we would just shoot with the left hand.

My Dad's boss used the bag trick, but with a pistol. He was robbed while taking the store's receipts to the bank.
He thought the punks might repeat, so the next day he put the money in his pockets, a gun in the money bag, hand in bag on gun. He took my Dad along as witness, just in case. Sure enough the punks appeared, the leader brandishing a nickel revolver. Boss just shot through the bag.

Ellifritz does the bag trick with cheap knives when in sketchy places in foreign countries.

[Guerrero]

DB has no tells or precedes ( warning motions).

3 things I think are important about this:
1) Actual speed.
2) No preceding motion to telegraph what you are doing.
3) Established grip reduces possible fumbles.

If you read the original Facebook post, DB mentions that there was a hang-up during the draw (barely visible at the beginning) and he was still able to complete it under one second.

[1slow]

If you read the original Facebook post, DB mentions that there was a hang-up during the draw (barely visible at the beginning) and he was still able to complete it under one second.

I read the first post.
Even with the hang-up it worked well.

[0ddl0t]

Why go full extension when the target is so close? Why not fire one when the pistol is rotated on target and fire an extended 2nd only if necessary?


As for the bag trick, you can do that in your pocket at least once. My P365 will then jam 90% of the time, but I'd imagine a hammerless snubby would be good for a second shot almosy everytime.

[Norville]

Why go full extension when the target is so close? Why not fire one when the pistol is rotated on target and fire an extended 2nd only if necessary?
.

I attended the revolver roundup last fall and watched DB run through this exercise. He did it well under a second, which I believe was a first for him, and as anyone who shoots competition knows, once you break the psychological barrier it gets easier on to repeat on demand. He and Wayne emphasize 2 things: not shooting too fast, and being sure of your hits. Maybe that should be in the reverse order.

With a 5 shot .38, nothing short of a perfect head shot is an (almost) guaranteed instant stop. Better to take another 0.1 seconds and be sure, than launch a glancing hit the have to follow up. For a close range torso shot, I agree- send ASAP and repeat as needed.

The snub is a “one robber” gun so you don’t have any rounds to spare.

[Totem Polar]

Why go full extension when the target is so close? Why not fire one when the pistol is rotated on target and fire an extended 2nd only if necessary?


One of the myriad takeaways from a Cecil Burch class is the alarming realization of how easy it is to miss someone that you are literally entangled with. Seriously, it’s jarring the first time he walks people through it.

[Pol]

When my unit was mostly plainclothes I would run a 342PD in one pocket and a LCP in the other. I could be standing around agitated people being interviewed and look perfectly casual with my hands in my pockets...

Dennis.



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I figure the same, but I was thinking if it comes to shooting I’m going to shoot from my pocket, not bothering to draw the gun.

[Rex G]

I figure the same, but I was thinking if it comes to shooting I’m going to shoot from my pocket, not bothering to draw the gun.

That can be tricky, in the case of pants’ pockets.

[Simms65]

As the person who recorded the video...

DB said he was gonna demo it and I said "wait! let me record it!" He did that cold. It was his first shot of the day.