Some More Time-Sensitive Enabling

[Stephanie B]

A 2.5" Model 19-5 is currently at $500 on GB (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/877706803).

The auction ends in two hours.

[Yung]

At this point I think you should just get your own thread for revolver deals.

[03RN]

Almost time!!!

Great deal

[Totem Polar]

That looks to be one of the special run US diplomatic security services 19-5 guns with the matte finish. Cool and unusual.

I’d be interested... but... I already sorta bought a 19-6 yesterday. :rolleyes:

[Stephanie B]

That looks to be one of the special run US diplomatic security services 19-5 guns with the matte finish. Cool and unusual.

The matte finish may be why it's not up to eight bills (not to mention the paucity of pictures).

[TC215]

It does sorta look like a DSS gun.

TGS has one, he may be able to confirm.

[Totem Polar]

At this point, it’s exceeded what I just paid for my own 19. The next 15 minutes could be interesting as the final sniping commences.

[Lost River]

$740 with 12 minutes to go.

[vcdgrips]

I will take the over at 899 for a bottle of Mexican/Real Sugar Coca-Cola.

DB

[Totem Polar]

$740 with 12 minutes to go.

That escalated quickly, as they say.


ETA: Now I feel torn. Between elation over what I just paid for a nice 2 1/2” 19, and mild shock watching this thing catch fire and burn through the bids like they’re a dumpster behind a Portland courthouse.

[Lost River]

$1045!

Yes it did!

Dang, Iv'e got my old 19-3 that I never shoot, and at those prices I am tempted to stick it on the block!

I really need to clean this thing, I just realized how dirty it is in this pic. :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/eCLBo4Y.jpg

[Totem Polar]

$1045!

Yes it did!

Dang, Iv'e got my old 19-3 that I never shoot, and at those prices I am tempted to stick it on the block!

I really need to clean this thing, I just realized how dirty it is in this pic. :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/eCLBo4Y.jpg

^^^P&R, reasonably clean... don’t you dare put it on gunbroker. Keep it to flex on the poors.

Not as smexy as the DSS gun, but I’m happy with this one, which was less OTD than the sticker:

[Lost River]

That escalated quickly, as they say.


ETA: Now I feel torn. Between elation over what I just paid for a nice 2 1/2” 19, and mild shock watching this thing catch fire and burn through the bids like they’re a dumpster behind a Portland courthouse.


I typed out a reply to this while chuckling in response to the absolute accuracy of it, then deleted it.

Instead I will just laugh and say. OUCH! lol!

:cool:

[TGS]

I was actually just coming here to make a post asking why retards think "bid sniping" works on GunBroker, specific to this listing. There's a 15 minute rule on GunBroker, unlike eBay (or ebay of yesteryear, maybe they've gone to that 15 minute rule as well).

Just bid what you're actually willing to pay for the fucking gun. Look at the ridiculous bid history with this eljefe guy.

Yes, I'm suspecting it's a DSS gun which is why I'm bidding on it. Seller never responded to my inquiry on the the serial number prefix, DSS guns commonly being (but not limited to) AND, ANN, ANY, ANP and AYY. Prior to the creation of DSS following the Beirut Bombings and Inman Commission, the predecessor agency, Office of Security (abbreviated SY) bought random guns from post-to-post to arm their agents and Marine Security Guards. Following the creation of the Diplomatic Security Service in the mid-80s, DSS standardized on the S&W Model 19-5 with a matte finish and wide/smooth trigger. The original batch of guns in the AND range came with regular wood panels, and it appears every batch after that came with the Pachy Professional Compacts. Finishes differ on production runs from very matte to a satin sheen.

In 1993, DSS began transitioning to Glocks and after a hundred were issued and with only 4 months of use, DSS recalled the Glocks and switched to the SIG P228. The last recorded qualification of a S&W Model 19 as an individually carried weapon was recorded in 2006, and agents qualified on the weapon during the Basic Field Firearms Officers Course (range safety officer/instructor course) up until about 2019. Many Model 19-5s remain in inventory through posts worldwide, due to State's strange structure and how DSS can't really force posts overseas to send the guns back......so, many posts retained the weapons as there was no one-for-one exchange. Up to current day, though not frequent it's not uncommon to have met agents who carried one at a post while waiting for their personally assigned SIG/Glock to arrive.

The S&W Model 19 2.5" was accompanied by the Model 19 4" round butt for issue to Marine Security Guards until switching to a system where MSGs at post carried USMC weapons systems, that being the Beretta 92. DSS began transitioning to the Glock 19M in late 2017, and also has now begun transitioning MSGs to the DSS-issued Glock 19Ms as well. The S&W Model 19 was also accompanied in service by the Ruger SP101 2.25" .38 Special with a Commander-style hammer, purchased in 1990. These were purchased specifically for principle officers (ambassadors, consuls, etc) to carry at their own discretion if desired, and also domestically as a special-issue undercover gun. The New York Field Office retained 5 SP101s as of 2018, though I'm not sure if anywhere else still has them.

Standard issue ammo for all revolvers was the 38 125gr Nyclad.

I have an AND with wood stocks, and an ANN with Professional Compacts. In addition to wanting to collect them myself, I am on "retainer" by several agents who may/may not be in a position to buy one of these due to vagaries of the job's lifestyle. These can go for as little as $500 with people thinking they're some random shit-refinish beater gun, up to $1650 when the seller knows what they have. There were less than 1000 of the DSS Model 19-5 2.5" guns made, with many of them being sold off to a distributor for resale in the mid 90s just prior to the change in federal law preventing the resale of federal LE guns.

Unfortunately, this one was not to be for me, as I set my limit at $1200. I might have put down more money if I had assurances of its provenance.

[Stephanie B]

Up to $1,225 with 6 minutes to go. (The time keeps being extended.)

And that's the knock-down price.

[Lost River]

^^^P&R, reasonably clean... don’t you dare put it on gunbroker. Keep it to flex on the poors.

Not as smexy as the DSS gun, but I’m happy with this one, which was less OTD than the sticker:

You got a nice one!

I actually picked it up for an older gal who was having some issues and needed a handgun, so I found her one. She then changed her mind, so I stuck it in my safe. This was years ago when they did not command much of a premium and I figured I would just use it for a house gun if needed.

[Totem Polar]

TGS with the knowledge bombs.

#wearenotworthy (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=wearenotworthy)

[Lost River]

TGS,

Now that I know this I will put that intel in my phone notes and if I find one I will let you know.

[TGS]

Thanks for the lookout, Lost River. Tagging Bruce Cartwright as well, since he's in to old LE revolvers.

I was taking a med course today, but was just able to get a picture of the two of mine together. I found a guy on the S&W forum that had one but didn't seem to have any particular interest in its history, so I sent him a PM to inquire about buying it. He said that since he had posted a thread about it, he decided to get it gold plated. Absolutely horrendous, gaudy piece of work.

59986

[Lost River]

Gold plating such a gun ought to be a criminal offense.

Unit/Agency guys who are gun guys ought to get first crack at guns that were part of the history of their outfits.

If I can help facilitate that I'd be happy to, and I am pretty sure Bruce feels the same way.

[Mark D]

$1225 out the door. Sheesh.

The 2.5" Model 19 was the first firearm that I personally owned. I got it in the early 90's and it's long since gone. I often regret not keeping it . I keep my eyes open for another, but if this auction is any indication, I may not be able to afford one.

[TGS]

Gold plating such a gun ought to be a criminal offense.

Unit/Agency guys who are gun guys ought to get first crack at guns that were part of the history of their outfits.

If I can help facilitate that I'd be happy to, and I am pretty sure Bruce feels the same way.

Ditto.....even though I've got two for myself, I've got verbal agreements with several other agents who have asked to buy one in their absence and hold it for them.

The 4" Model 19 round-butts that were issued to the MSGs are super hard to find since they had the regular polished blue finish, so they tend to get lost in the shuffle and are a needle in a haystack.

If anyone has a legacy (pre-lock) S&W wheel gun that has some peculiarity that's different from the standard catalogue model, it really pays off to get a provenance letter from the S&W historian. S&W did so many special orders, so even if a person themself doesn't care their gun was a special run for some obscure agency, there's guaranteed to be a collector who cares very much. The DSS 2.5" Model 19s were ordered under SKU 100701. The product code for the Ruger SP101s was KSP-821DOS. Unfortunately most people don't know what they have so the automatic notifications I have on gunbroker are mostly useless, and I browse through what's on auction once or twice a week.

Similarly, if there's anyone here who is on the lookout for a retired agency gun, shoot me a message. I'm basically the gunbroker version of those range goblins that scour your shooting position for spent brass.

[Bruce Cartwright]

Thanks for the lookout, Lost River. Tagging Bruce Cartwright as well, since he's in to old LE revolvers.



[QUOTE=Lost River;1109509]Gold plating such a gun ought to be a criminal offense.

Unit/Agency guys who are gun guys ought to get first crack at guns that were part of the history of their outfits.

If I can help facilitate that I'd be happy to, and I am pretty sure Bruce feels the same way.

TGS and Lost River:

I will keep my eyes open. I just found a pristine S&W Model 19-2 for a friend. You never know what you re going to come across.

As to agency guns and history, I fully agree. I had a S&W Registered magnum issued to me right before I retired. If there was any way I could have bought that as my "service" gun, I would have. Unfortunately retiring feds are not allowed to do that unlike many of my state and local brothers and sisters. The folks at my old job just think of that gun as an "old 357...". Along those lines, keep an eye out for old agency leather. I found a three cell revolver speed loader pouch in black nylon from the Bureau that was going to e discarded. Most have no idea that it was an original SWAT issue revolver speed loader case. Again folks at my old outfit throw stuff like that away because no one uses revolvers anymore. So much for history....

I will keep looking for any DSS guns and let you know. One of the coolest guns (although not quite as cool as a Registered magnum and a 1928 US Navy overstamp Thompson SMG) I came across was a Naval Investigative Service round butt factory original S&W Model 19 with a yellow front sight insert. I almost got that one assigned to me. I am semi looking for a New Hampshire State Police S&W Model 66 commemorative or an agency gun with known, verified provenance. My first partner was a NHSP Trooper. He was a true friend and mentor who passed away before his time. A NHSP wheelgun would be a nice addition to the patch from his class A uniform.

So, here is a wild idea. Should we generate some sort of list/post (I think they call it a "sticky"?) that folks could reference about the type of guns they are looking for at least as it concerns revolvers?

Bruce

[DamonL]

The 4" Model 19 round-butts that were issued to the MSGs are super hard to find since they had the regular polished blue finish, so they tend to get lost in the shuffle and are a needle in a haystack.


Tamara

I have posted this before. This is not an MSG gun. It is a POW. It is the first handgun I owned and it started life as a 2.5” Model 19. I shot it enough that I cracked the forcing cone. At the time I was friends with the SY Weapons Program officer. I had no clue what was wrong with it and showed it to him. He was the one who told me I had a cracked forcing cone and that he would get it fixed. When he returned it to me, it had a 4” barrel on it. After I got over the surprise it grew on me. I replaced the Pachmayr grips with the Craig Spegels that are on them in the pic.


60061

[Totem Polar]

This has been a cool thread. Another StephanieB revolver classic.

[TGS]

This has been a cool thread. Another StephanieB revolver classic.

In honor of all wheelgun chicks who make the world go'round, here's the first female SY (DSS) Special Agent, "Pistol Packin'" Patti Morton. She carried her gun a clutch since female clothes at the time precluded the use of a belt holster. Special Agent Morton passed away in 2019. Also attached, another staged photo of range training in the 80s using the S&W Model 19-5 2.5".

60063

60064

I might not carry revolvers as my primary EDC, but you're surely a soulless Commie heathen if you don't enjoy these revolver threads (thanks @StephanieB)

[Totem Polar]

^^^A cuppa joe, a cuppa saucer...

[Stephanie B]

In honor of all wheelgun chicks who make the world go'round, here's the first female SY (DSS) Special Agent, "Pistol Packin'" Patti Morton. She carried her gun a clutch since female clothes at the time precluded the use of a belt holster. Special Agent Morton passed away in 2019.

60063

Here is Patti Morton's obit that was written by the National Museum of American Diplomacy (https://diplomacy.state.gov/artifact-collection-highlights/in-memoriam-patricia-anne-patti-morton/), the DoS's article (https://statemag.state.gov/2019/04/special-agent/) on her, her obit (https://www.newellhoerlings.com/obituary/Patricia-Morton), which mentioned that she got more grief from the other women at DoS than from the men, and her Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Anne_Morton), which is sparse AF.

She wrote the evacuation plan for the Saigon embassy. She wasn't permitted to stay to put it into practice, as her supervisors thought that Saigon in 1975 was no place for a woman and ordered her to leave the country.

[Wayne Dobbs]

One of the coolest guns (although not quite as cool as a Registered magnum and a 1928 US Navy overstamp Thompson SMG) I came across was a Naval Investigative Service round butt factory original S&W Model 19 with a yellow front sight insert.

TGS -

I was assigned to an Organized Crime Task Force at the FBI - Dallas Division from 1987 - 1986 and got to witness lots of gun stuff, courtesy of the late Robert P. Butler, Police Training Coordinator and legend in Texas LE training circles. Bob went around teaching FBI Firearms Instructor Schools around Texas (sometimes towing a bass boat with the BuCar, but that's another set of stories). I knew Bob long before I was assigned to that TF. We were learning much about ammo at this point (being a year after Miami) and it was a privilege to be part of the inside knowledge track for that program and to get to discuss the findings with Bob.

There were many 3" Model 13 RB issued guns in the Division, but I noted lots of the SWAT agents had that NIS Model 19 4" RB with the yellow front insert. Also around there were a few of the experimental Model 10 2 1/2" revolvers. I must confess that I deeply coveted one of those NIS revolvers!

[BobM]

TGS -

(sometimes towing a bass boat with the BuCar, but that's another set of stories). !

He sure would have fit in around where I work!

[TGS]

This is very cool, but just for clarities sake I believe you're attributing Bruce's post/life experience to me.

[Bruce Cartwright]

Here is Patti Morton's obit that was written by the National Museum of American Diplomacy (https://diplomacy.state.gov/artifact-collection-highlights/in-memoriam-patricia-anne-patti-morton/), the DoS's article (https://statemag.state.gov/2019/04/special-agent/) on her, her obit (https://www.newellhoerlings.com/obituary/Patricia-Morton), which mentioned that she got more grief from the other women at DoS than from the men, and her Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Anne_Morton), which is sparse AF.

She wrote the evacuation plan for the Saigon embassy. She wasn't permitted to stay to put it into practice, as her supervisors thought that Saigon in 1975 was no place for a woman and ordered her to leave the country.

Stephanie B:
Thanks for the links. A life well lived seems to be appropriate. Rest in Peace SA Morton.
Bruce

[Bruce Cartwright]

TGS -

I was assigned to an Organized Crime Task Force at the FBI - Dallas Division from 1987 - 1986 and got to witness lots of gun stuff, courtesy of the late Robert P. Butler, Police Training Coordinator and legend in Texas LE training circles. Bob went around teaching FBI Firearms Instructor Schools around Texas (sometimes towing a bass boat with the BuCar, but that's another set of stories). I knew Bob long before I was assigned to that TF. We were learning much about ammo at this point (being a year after Miami) and it was a privilege to be part of the inside knowledge track for that program and to get to discuss the findings with Bob.

There were many 3" Model 13 RB issued guns in the Division, but I noted lots of the SWAT agents had that NIS Model 19 4" RB with the yellow front insert. Also around there were a few of the experimental Model 10 2 1/2" revolvers. I must confess that I deeply coveted one of those NIS revolvers!

Wayne:

A little bit more about that NIS S&W Model 19. I first saw that revolver lodged in a pelican case during my firearms instructor school in Houston Texas. There were 12 revolvers in that case. 11 were S&W Model 66s and "my" lone Model 19. I had heard of the NIS Model 19s and I suspected that was what was in the pelican. Most of the agents in my class were milling around when that pelican case was opened. I made a bee line to the case and drew that NIS Model 19. My suspicions were confirmed. It was marked/engraved "Naval Investigative Service". I don't recall if it had Pachmayr Compact Professionals or magna service stocks with a Pachmayr grip adapter ( I think it was the later). We shot the old Double Action Revolver courses of fire twice and I scored 100 percent on each. I think that is more of a testament to that old Model 19 than my ability. I distinctly remember that Model 19 being stupid accurate. Like putting all 50 rounds in the inner "breadbasket" of the FBI "Q" target accurate. I could only describe the action as a "friction free environment". I did everything I could to get that gun assigned to me. All was for naught. Despite my best efforts, I was "told" to turn that gun in.
The round butt and 4 inch barrel are a great combination on a K Frame.
As to Bucars and bass boats, hopefully our paths will cross and if that comes to pass ask me about the "bird dog" story.
Bruce

[TGS]

Too rich for my blood. I was holding steady as the lead bidder at $1675 and still had room to go, and someone used the Buy-it-Now function for $2625.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/889896698

Looks like the only way I'll be procuring more of these in the future is when people don't know what they don't have, and don't list it as a State Dept and/or DS gun.

[WobblyPossum]

I’ve been looking at 2.5” Model 19s today because I learned that they were once issued to investigators at my agency prior to the transition to semi autos. I found this one (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895757168) on Gunbroker and it looks to be in good condition. Based on how shiny the bluing is, I don’t think it’s a DS gun but it sure looks nice. What’s a fair price for a good condition 2.5” Model 19 these days?

[Stephanie B]

I’ve been looking at 2.5” Model 19s today because I learned that they were once issued to investigators at my agency prior to the transition to semi autos. I found this one (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895757168) on Gunbroker and it looks to be in good condition. Based on how shiny the bluing is, I don’t think it’s a DS gun but it sure looks nice. What’s a fair price for a good condition 2.5” Model 19 these days?

I've seen snubbie 19s in nice condition go for north of a grand, easy. Certainly not for under $700.

Anyone else have thoughts?

[WobblyPossum]

I've seen snubbie 19s in nice condition go for north of a grand, easy. Certainly not for under $700.

Anyone else have thoughts?

Over a grand is definitely out of my price range but I’ll be keeping an eye on this one. Hopefully the seller only having a feedback score of 5 ratings scares some people away. I’m willing to take the risk as I think I’ve got even fewer feedback ratings than that.

[Stephanie B]

Over a grand is definitely out of my price range but I’ll be keeping an eye on this one. Hopefully the seller only having a feedback score of 5 ratings scares some people away. I’m willing to take the risk as I think I’ve got even fewer feedback ratings than that.

Did you get it?

[WobblyPossum]

Did you get it?

I did not. It ended up selling for about $100 past my maximum. I’m watching a few others but they’re likely going to end up higher than I’m looking to pay. I might just need to be patient.

[awp_101]

I’m watching a few others but they’re likely going to end up higher than I’m looking to pay. I might just need to be patient.
[Tom Petty]The waaaaaiting is the hardest part[/Tom Petty]

[WobblyPossum]

So, I did manage to win a Model 19 recently as discussed in another thread. Because my luck is what it is, immediately after I mailed my check, I saw this Model 19-5 (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897107598) had just been listed. I remembered what TGS posted about the DSS issued guns and thought it looked an awful lot like what was described: 2.5” 19-5, matte/dull blued finish, ANP serial number prefix, Pachmayr Compac stocks. It looked like a mix of the two DSS guns TGS posted photos of earlier. I figured it would be pretty cool to see if it was the real deal. I placed a bid this afternoon and happened to win it. Once it comes in, I’ll reach out to the S&W historical folks and see what the letter says. If this ends up being the real deal, I’ll probably sell or trade the other 19-5.

[TC215]

If this ends up being the real deal, I’ll probably sell or trade the other 19-5.

If it’s a 2.5” too, let me know, I may be interested.

[Stephanie B]

If it’s a 2.5” too, let me know, I may be interested.

Yeah, me, too (unless I stumble over a 66-8 in the meantime. Which isn’t likely. I stopped by a gun shop during a drive;?they had one revolver, a used Governor. Counter dude said everything sells fast.)

[MDFA]

Yeah, me, too (unless I stumble over a 66-8 in the meantime. Which isn’t likely. I stopped by a gun shop during a drive;?they had one revolver, a used Governor. Counter dude said everything sells fast.)

tradewindsguns.com 850-939-3303

He's closed Sunday and Monday.

As I recall 1000 1195 and 1295

I'm just a customer and have no affiliation with the business, other than they take my money....

When I bought my 66-4 they had the above 66's left.

Hope this helps.

[Stephanie B]

A K-38 with Fuzzy Farant grips (and a cut frame).

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897034119

Less than a half hour to go.

(corrected)

[03RN]

A Model 14 with Fuzzy Farant grips (and a cut frame).

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897034119

Less than a half hour to go.


M. U. S. T. R. E. S. I. S. T

[Stephanie B]

A Model 14 with Fuzzy Farant grips (and a cut frame).

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897034119

Less than a half hour to go.


M. U. S. T. R. E. S. I. S. T

Resistance is futile. (You could possibly recoup most of the cost of the gun by selling the grips.)

[okie john]

Two more to stoke the flames:

4" no-dash Model 66 round butt: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897105978

4" Model 66-1 round butt: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897101849


Okie John

[Stephanie B]

A K-38 with Fuzzy Farant grips (and a cut frame).

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897034119

Less than a half hour to go.

(corrected)

Still live at $690

[tango-papa]

Two weeks...
That's enough time to pull some O/T or whatever is needed to gather funds and justify the purchase, right...?

This one is neat and will probably go pretty high because of the stated/lettered "extremely rare" factory stocks - too bad they have a bit of damage.
I like that whoever owned it actually used it.

Stephanie B
This would be the ideal companion to your other Model 14... ;)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897619156

[SeriousStudent]

Still live at $690

Whoever got that stole it. I would have done just what you said, and flipped them both.

Those stock are about $500 if you can find them.

[Stephanie B]

Two weeks...
That's enough time to pull some O/T or whatever is needed to gather funds and justify the purchase, right...?

This one is neat and will probably go pretty high because of the stated/lettered "extremely rare" factory stocks - too bad they have a bit of damage.
I like that whoever owned it actually used it.

Stephanie B
This would be the ideal companion to your other Model 14... ;)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897619156

Go for it!

[awp_101]

Two weeks...
That's enough time to pull some O/T or whatever is needed to gather funds and justify the purchase, right...?

This one is neat and will probably go pretty high because of the stated/lettered "extremely rare" factory stocks - too bad they have a bit of damage.
I like that whoever owned it actually used it.

Stephanie B
This would be the ideal companion to your other Model 14... ;)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/897619156
A Roy Jinx letter is more rare than the stocks...