Choosing Extended Mags in USPSA P?

[RJ]

As per title, would you chose to use extended magazines in USPSA Production, even though one is limited by rule to 10 rounds in the magazine at the start? I shoot production, so I am forever reloading between target arrays. It's not uncommon for me to see the mag fail to drop free, or the botch a reload (I have Medium size hands) on drawing the mag from the belt, or on inserting.

Case in point: Here is my G19 I use in USPSA. This shows a G17 mag inserted, with a Dawson basepad. (I use silver on this basepad, as opposed to the rest, which are black, so as to tell which mag I load with 11 at the start) The rest of my reloads currently are G19 mags, with black Dawson basepads.

59827

Are there any downsides to using the longer mag?

The weight of the 17 mag is 3.1 oz empty; a normal Gen 5 Glock 19 mag is 2.5 oz. I realize that, barring air, or friction, the extra weight should theoretically not drop faster. But would it or would it not overcome the surface of the inside of the grip quicker? Another consideration is just physically gripping the mag, both on reloads from the belt, as well as ripping it out of the magwell. It would seem the longer mag would help in both cases?

While pondering this, I took some Flitz and rubbed down the outside of the mag tube, so the polymer is nice and smooth, then reassembled the mag. Bottom line, I'm likely ordering a bunch of G17 mags and dedicated a set to USPSA, exclusively, but wondered what the collective thought about this plan.

Your thoughts?

[Quantrill]

I’ve done it. It works fine, and given the cost of production legal base pads you might as well invest in a G17 mag IMO.

As a guy that has used a G19 & G17 in USPSA I would suggest getting a G17 if you can afford it. If you stick with gaming you’ll probably do it later anyway. Or a CZ 😀.

[Clusterfrack]

@RJ, yeah a G19 in Production is a bit of an uphill battle. I'm not going to try very hard to talk you out of shooting it, and you're already aware that it has some disadvantages.

Do you find that your 17 round mags and mag release get buggered from repeated insertion? If you're gentle with your mag insertions, it should be ok, but when you slam one in that's a lot of force on the mag ledge and release. Sig p320s can be permanently damaged by over insertion of mags (bends non-replaceable ejector).

I would be more inclined to use a longer mag extension on a G19 mag if you are trying for longer mags. But if that's the problem, maybe you need a bigger gun?

[LOKNLOD]

Sidebar...What makes a 19 an especially uphill battle?

I mean... compared to one of the big heavy metal guns, yeah. But really compared to any other reasonable poly striker gun?

[Clusterfrack]

Sidebar...What makes a 19 an especially uphill battle?

If someone wants to get serious (or even semi-serious) about USPSA, my advice is to look at what the top shooters use and do. There are a lot of GMs who don’t get free guns and don’t get paid to use a particular one. I don’t see any of them with a G19 size gun.

As we’ve discussed at length in other threads, index is critically important. It’s just easier to confirm index with a longer gun, and that alone would be enough for me to choose a G17 or 34 size.

Recoil is typically easier to manage with a bigger, heavier gun.

Ergos, mag changes, etc. are usually easier with a bigger gun.

However, when I’ve run drills and stages with my P-07, the times and scores are often not that far off what I can do with a Shadow2. Yesterday I was torturing myself with 45 yd tuxedo and partial targets and small steel. Right on the edge of failure every run. No freaking way would I want to do that with my P-07.

I shoot the guns that let me push my skills as far as I can.

[RJ]

@RJ, yeah a G19 in Production is a bit of an uphill battle. I'm not going to try very hard to talk you out of shooting it, and you're already aware that it has some disadvantages.

Do you find that your 17 round mags and mag release get buggered from repeated insertion? If you're gentle with your mag insertions, it should be ok, but when you slam one in that's a lot of force on the mag ledge and release. Sig p320s can be permanently damaged by over insertion of mags (bends non-replaceable ejector).

I would be more inclined to use a longer mag extension on a G19 mag if you are trying for longer mags. But if that's the problem, maybe you need a bigger gun?

No worries. I understand. Appreciate the input. I should probably give some additional background.

I bought the Glock 19 as a "one size fits all" carry/competition gun in 2017, as at the time we were both storage and budget constrained. So I still have it. I shoot it because I was (at the time) both carrying it as well as training/competing with it. With 6,400+ rounds through it, you could also say I'm emotionally attached to it (:)) which might sound corny about a Glock, but it's true.

I also failed to explain, a Glock 19 in my hand, looks like a Glock 17 in most other people's hands. I wear a size M but stubby fingers. I do not use a backstrap. So anything larger, really, is not a plus. I'm with you on the heavier gun; I added a brass plug and tungsten guide rod to give me +3 oz to my G19. I do notice the difference shooting it; it is much flatter in recoil. I did rent a G34 at the range a few months ago. It was cool but not the magic death ray of accuracy I was hoping for. Certainly can't argue the longer sight radius, though. Damn that thing was lonnnnnnnggg lol.

Lastly, as you are probably aware, much more than me, what is preventing me as a D shooter from advancing is not small advantages gained by equipment, but by doing the work, avoiding errors, and getting trigger control down to put Alphas on targets, quickly. And not screwing up. And moving faster. And getting quicker on reloads. And not screwing up (I said that already, but it bears repeating)

With only ever having shot 11 matches, in my lifetime, I need to get a lot more match experience. So this coming fall season, as I'm coming out of a transition to retirement, and COVID is opening up our local matches, I plan to start doing weekly local matches on Friday nights. Right now it's still pretty hot out (my laptop temp ticker is showing 97F, and it's 6:30 in the evening here in Tampa as I type this.) Hopefully end of Sep and into Oct things will cool off a bit.

If I won the lottery, I'd buy a G34 and shoot it in competition, but I have been doing the carry gun shuffle the past year, spending time and $$$, and am about to do it one more (last?) time, by trading in in my P365XL (which I traded in a G43X for) for a Glock 48, and will keep the G19.



To your points: I have yet to use a G17 magazine in a match. To date I've used G19 mags, hence the question. I do have issues in grabbing off the pouch, as well as them falling more or less free during transitions (I almost always reload while sprinting to a new target array).

I had not thought of a mag extension on a G19 mag, that's a good idea.

I do recall seeing the thread on over-insertion of a 320 mag causing the ejector to bend up. It's part of the reason I am trading in the XL; I had thoughts of selling the G19 for a 320, but threads like that disabused me of that idea. So, even as good a shooter as the P365XL is, I don't want to transition to a larger Sig for USPSA, leaving me with a Glock 19, and the decision to swap the XL for a 48.

Anyway, thanks CF. Your opinions are always much appreciated, and make me think.

[Quantrill]

At the risk of further derailing this thread...... and I agree with CF btw.

RJ have you ever considered shooting Limited for a while? Why not simplify your life and reload less? Build some shooting skill then go back to Production.

On topic: whether you use a 17 mag or Production extensions, it will help with seating mags in my experience.

[RJ]

At the risk of further derailing this thread...... and I agree with CF btw.

RJ have you ever considered shooting Limited for a while? Why not simplify your life and reload less? Build some shooting skill then go back to Production.

On topic: whether you use a 17 mag or Production extensions, it will help with seating mags in my experience.

I may or may not have put in and removed a few Pmag 21 rounders in my Brownell’s shopping cart. ;)

Truth: I’d honestly like to make C class in Production first; me being stubborn I guess lol.

[GJM]

I like these.

https://benstoegerproshop.com/glock-easy-off-aluminum-extended-base-pad-basepad-by-shockbottle/

[rob_s]

RJ I’m like you, I know I’m not going to win, and I enjoy shooting the gun I have. At several points in my life I’ve gone full hipster and bought into the idea that I *need* the new hotness (last time was a CZ that I might have shot in 3-5 matches tops, as well as all the other gamerninja junk like mag pouches, a dozen mags, etc) only to always come to the same conclusion... the limiting factor isn’t the gun, it’s me. Even when I *have* invested the time in various sorts of dry fire programs, rad all the books, did all the kool kid shit, the limiting factor has been me.

And eventually I came to the realization that I just don’t care enough about a score that maybe max 3 other people in the whole universe care about (me, the guy below me, the guy above me) in some silly game. I’m there to have fun. And if shooting some “non-competitive” gun is fun for me then I’m going to do it. My whole gamer rig is basketweave. Why? Fun. And for every gamerninja that looks at me and thinks I’m some boomer loser, I look at them with my own ideas about their situation too.

As to your original question, I’ve been gamering with a Glock 19 on and off for 15+ years, and I personally have always gotten the best results using G17 mags. Unlike you, the G 19 fills my hand quite well and I find the added length to be helpful for seating and other manipulations, including rare instances of stuck mags that I need to rip free. When I carry the G19 it’s a 15-round mag in the gun and a 17-round mag in the pouch.

I like your Barney mag idea of the fancy floor plate. If my newfound interest in gamer gunning continues and bleeds into handguns (I’m enjoying the shirt out of the gear-light world of PCC right now) I’ll have to adopt that one too.

Oh, and I’ll probably also shoot production instead of Limited. (A) because less people are shooting it these days so I can be more competitive (like dorks that shoot revolver) and (b) because reloading is fun to me.

[rob_s]

Do you find that your 17 round mags and mag release get buggered from repeated insertion? If you're gentle with your mag insertions, it should be ok, but when you slam one in that's a lot of force on the mag ledge and release. Sig p320s can be permanently damaged by over insertion of mags (bends non-replaceable ejector).

I would be more inclined to use a longer mag extension on a G19 mag if you are trying for longer mags. But if that's the problem, maybe you need a bigger gun?

This is not an entirely bad point. I personally have never had nor noticed a problem with this, but I generally have had a dedicated game G19 and set of G17 mags (I think I usually rolled out with 10?) and while I never had an issue I also never looked to see if there was one developing either.

If someone already had a batch of G19 game mags, and was going to have to buy a replacement set of G17 mags I might be inclined to go with extensions too.

I assume that even the +4/5 of something like this would still fit in the box? And would be both Production (loaded only to ten still) and Limited legal, and even CCO legal, should someone decide to stray later?
https://tarantacticalinnovations.com/base-pad-for-glock-19-23-oem-9-40-magazines/

Is there a more betterer or equal gooder-but-less-expensiver option out there? Does a +2/3 get one to G17 length?

[Caballoflaco]

RJ back when I shot USPSA matches regularly I used to shoot with an LEO who always shot a glock 19
out of his duty gear because his work gun was a glock 19 too. He was a solid A class shooter. GJM posted recently about a dude who is shooting with USPSA a glock 26 and kicking ass. Since you’re there for self improvement I say local matches are a perfect place to experiment to see what size mags work best as reloads for you.

While I’ve gone full gamer in Archery one thing I always enjoyed about shooting competitions was running the same gun I wore to and from matches. (Back then that was a 1911 I added a beaver tail and higher viz sights too). Or the same rifle or shotgun I had in the closet for social purposes.

[RJ]

Thought I’d drop this question here, even though my basic premise has changed.

I’m taking a break from USPSA to move house in the next two-three months. At the same time, I decided to transition to dots for carry and competition. I bought a G34 MOS and a HS 507c as a ‘starter kit’, as it were.

Since I’ll now be shooting CO, I will be loading my G17 mags to capacity.

My question is, in terms of stage planning, will I find I need +4 or +5 extensions in CO, or at my level, does it matter? I’m currently D at 36%, so being honest, most matches I’m just competing against myself and the other shooters near the bottom.

And if I do end up buying extended basepads, what’s the go-to brand/type?

TIA.

[Quantrill]

Only you can say if it matters.

For Glock mags I like Taylorfreelance, they’re very secure.

[olstyn]

My question is, in terms of stage planning, will I find I need +4 or +5 extensions in CO, or at my level, does it matter? I’m currently D at 36%, so being honest, most matches I’m just competing against myself and the other shooters near the bottom.

And if I do end up buying extended basepads, what’s the go-to brand/type?

I have done something similar. I primarily shoot Production with my Walther P99, but I also have run the same gun in Limited with its stock 15-round mags. It was fun, and even 15-round mags opened up a LOT of stage planning possibilities vs shooting Production, but getting 140mm extensions for those mags, which let them hold 21 rounds instead, opened up even more. I would say that you might not *need* the extensions at the high D/low C classification level, but if you buy them, you will 100% enjoy having them, and they will be an advantage on some stages. I don't know that there's a single best/go-to brand, but I've been completely happy with my Taylor Freelance extensions.

[Eyesquared]

Thought I’d drop this question here, even though my basic premise has changed.

I’m taking a break from USPSA to move house in the next two-three months. At the same time, I decided to transition to dots for carry and competition. I bought a G34 MOS and a HS 507c as a ‘starter kit’, as it were.

Since I’ll now be shooting CO, I will be loading my G17 mags to capacity.

My question is, in terms of stage planning, will I find I need +4 or +5 extensions in CO, or at my level, does it matter? I’m currently D at 36%, so being honest, most matches I’m just competing against myself and the other shooters near the bottom.

And if I do end up buying extended basepads, what’s the go-to brand/type?

TIA.

For a 6 stage match, let's assume a worst case scenario where not having extensions causes you to do one extra reload on each stage. Let's also assume each reload takes somewhere between 1s and 1.5s, for a total of 6 to 9 seconds. Is that enough time to bother you?

For the purposes of learning stage planning either 17 rounds or 22-23 rounds will take most of the pain out of it compared to shooting locap.

Also if you don't mind some unsolicited advice, I recommend that you try not to even think about being D class and don't let it pull you around excessively as you try to make decisions. Classification is a lagging indicator and it can take a long time for it to catch up when your skill level improves. Reinforcing to yourself your current classification can be bad for self-image. Sort of like the old saying about dressing for the job you want, not the one you have, I like to think of training/shooting/being equipped for the classification I want vs the one I have.