2022 Jeep Wagoneer unveiling 9/3 at 9am EST

[rob_s]

Should be interesting. I’m a huge fan of the OG Grand Wagoneer and would love to have a restomod of one.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33861146/jeep-grand-wagoneer-debut-watch/

https://www.caranddriver.com/jeep/wagoneer-grand-wagoneer

Hoping this is more in line with the success of the recent awesome re-launch of the Bronco and less in line with the horrendous FJ Cruiser re-launch from a few years back.

[rd62]

Watched it. Turned it off after "if Jeep were a city it would be Jackson Hole, Wagoneer would be New York, if they were a house Jeep would be a cabin and Wagoneer a glass house on the beach". It will compete with Tahoe, Suburban, and Expedition, but I was hoping for a more Jeep off-road capable version of that class, not a race to see which could be more luxurious and expensive.

[Nephrology]

Is this a unibody?

[Greg]

No fake wood on the sides?

GTFO

[OlongJohnson]

I haven't even watched it, but I know this is worth leaving here. Icon is cool.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xte_nUD_8fI

[RoyGBiv]

Looks like a Lincoln. /barf

[randyho]

Hybrids? Really?

[rob_s]

Looks like a Lincoln. /barf

Evidently this is their target market, at least for the Grand Wagoneer. Which isn't entirely out of step with the OG as it was also marketed as a premium model, but they seem to have missed the "offroad premium" from the OG with the current design, at least as shown.

I view things like this from two perspectives:
1) does it do justice to the OG? (in this case, so far, for me it's a fail)
2) do I like it anyway, regardless of the name? (in this case, I need to see more trims and such)

The new Broncos for me were a "yes" to #1 AND #2. The 2004-2006 GTO (of which I owned one) were a "no" to #1 as regards styling but were a resounding YES to #2. The FJ Cruiser, for me, was a no to both.

[Navin Johnson]

This is $100,000 plus vehicle aimed at range Rover and Lincoln. It will undoubtedly have a slew of technical issues with the hybrid system and or all the other electronics on board as evidenced by recent RAM releases. (Despite what one happy user might report the ram 1500 diesel and hybrid have had major complications)

All cars are very complicated these days and it's best to not own the first year of a new model.

If you are an early adapter bend over and buy the extended warranty.

It is a hard sell as $100-120k gives you lots of flashy European options.

[rob_s]

This is $100,000 plus vehicle aimed at range Rover and Lincoln. It will undoubtedly have a slew of technical issues with the hybrid system and or all the other electronics on board as evidenced by recent RAM releases. (Despite what one happy user might report the ram 1500 diesel and hybrid have had major complications)

All cars are very complicated these days and it's best to not own the first year of a new model.

If you are an early adapter bend over and buy the extended warranty.

It is a hard sell as $100-120k gives you lots of flashy European options.

I think that where they could have succeeded was if they had use the same formula as the OG. Luxury Offroad. Range Rover is really the only one claiming that today, and even that claim is dubious.

If Jeep is going to make a $100k vehicle, it out to at least still be a Jeep.

[randyho]

... or all the other electronics on board as evidenced by recent RAM releases.
The interior looks like garmin got in there, but agreeing with you, I'm betting it will be nowhere near as reliable.

[rob_s]

Saw this on the road yesterday. Blech.

83464

83465

[BehindBlueI's]

Is this a unibody?

No. The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are built on the Ram 1500 platform. Although, somewhat frustratingly, they put the 6.4L in the SUV but not the pickup. You can't get the 6.4 until the 2500 if you want a bed.

[HeavyDuty]

Saw this on the road yesterday. Blech.

83464

83465

Nope nope nope.

[MistWolf]

It lacks the height and majesty of the original

[Borderland]

Not a yuge fan of Jeeps but a company I worked for in the 70's had one of these.

https://i.ibb.co/zF1Wkty/1968-bend-or.jpg (https://ibb.co/m0mrxPL)

We used it on a large project in CO. The site was an old ranch so roads didn't exist. We just drove to the places we needed to be and were stuck in deep sand almost every day. The 4x4 PU's were the ones that were always stuck. The one vehicle that never got stuck was this old Jeep and I never figured out why.

[ST911]

Saw this on the road yesterday. Blech.


It lacks the height and majesty of the original

There are a couple around me. They're basically a suburban with less ground clearance and a high price tag. Hard pass.

[TGS]

If I'm going to be spending in the price range on a non-performance SUV, I might as well go for the Russian oligarch look and get a blacked out Mercedes G-wagon.

[rob_s]

I don’t know how the same company that got this so right, IMO, managed to screw up the Wagoneer so bad.

83493

[BehindBlueI's]

I don’t know how the same company that got this so right, IMO, managed to screw up the Wagoneer so bad.

83493

I like the exterior of the new Grand Cherokee. I'm not a big fan of the interior, but it's ok enough to not be a veto. Here's where they lost me: The V6 is the *only* option until you get to the Trailhawk or up trim level. I view the air suspension that Jeep/Ram uses with the exact same look I give a grenade with the spoon on but the pin gone. Danger awaits. So I have to move up *another* trim level to the Overland for the opportunity to pay over $3k for the 5.7L. That's a $60k-$65k vehicle at that point. There's a *lot* of compelling options at $60k.

The Explorer is somewhat similar. The Timberline (yes, I know it's mostly an appearance package) is not available with anything other than the base motor. Let's add bigger/heavier wheel package and then saddle it with the weakest motor because reasons.

[MistWolf]

I like the exterior of the new Grand Cherokee. I'm not a big fan of the interior, but it's ok enough to not be a veto. Here's where they lost me: The V6 is the *only* option until you get to the Trailhawk or up trim level. I view the air suspension that Jeep/Ram uses with the exact same look I give a grenade with the spoon on but the pin gone. Danger awaits. So I have to move up *another* trim level to the Overland for the opportunity to pay over $3k for the 5.7L. That's a $60k-$65k vehicle at that point. There's a *lot* of compelling options at $60k.

$75K for a Wrangler with a 392 Hemi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkj1sdCeuYM

[Hambo]

No fake wood on the sides?

GTFO

For that kind of money, they could have put some real wood on the outside. It would have been bamboo, because it's renewable, but at least it's wood.


The interior looks like garmin got in there, but agreeing with you, I'm betting it will be nowhere near as reliable.

I counted 6-7 screens in that fucker, and if Garmin is actually involved, get ready to get some when you need CS.

[rob_s]

I like the exterior of the new Grand Cherokee. I'm not a big fan of the interior, but it's ok enough to not be a veto. Here's where they lost me: The V6 is the *only* option until you get to the Trailhawk or up trim level. I view the air suspension that Jeep/Ram uses with the exact same look I give a grenade with the spoon on but the pin gone. Danger awaits. So I have to move up *another* trim level to the Overland for the opportunity to pay over $3k for the 5.7L. That's a $60k-$65k vehicle at that point. There's a *lot* of compelling options at $60k.

The Explorer is somewhat similar. The Timberline (yes, I know it's mostly an appearance package) is not available with anything other than the base motor. Let's add bigger/heavier wheel package and then saddle it with the weakest motor because reasons.

On the one hand, I personally don’t disagree.

On the other hand, I’d bet that the percentage of buyers who might actually buy a lower trim level but then pay for the bigger engine is stupid small. And that most of the people that want the big engine and are actually willing to pay for it are fine with a little bling.

I’m curious to see if they do a Trckhawk or other performance trim with the thing.

[BehindBlueI's]

On the one hand, I personally don’t disagree.

On the other hand, I’d bet that the percentage of buyers who might actually buy a lower trim level but then pay for the bigger engine is stupid small. And that most of the people that want the big engine and are actually willing to pay for it are fine with a little bling.

I’m curious to see if they do a Trckhawk or other performance trim with the thing.

Base:
Laredo MSRP: $36k
Overland MSRP: $53k

Hemi option $3k.

I expect there's a reasonable number of people who would pony up $3k for a bigger motor, for the better towing capacity, more capable highway passing etc. but not $17k for "a little bling" and the chance to pay another $3k. People do it in trucks all the time, even the XL F-150 lets you spec a Coyote 5.0. Jeep apparently thought so as well since at least 2011, when the 5.7L was optional in Laredo trims. I'm not sure about the 4.7L before that.

My guess is it's more to do with emissions and fleetwide fuel economy numbers then a thought nobody will buy them. I would be surprised if we see a Trackhawk with a hemi before we see one with a hybrid powertrain, but I've been surprised before.

[rob_s]

Base:
Laredo MSRP: $36k
Overland MSRP: $53k

Hemi option $3k.

I expect there's a reasonable number of people who would pony up $3k for a bigger motor, for the better towing capacity, more capable highway passing etc. but not $17k for "a little bling" and the chance to pay another $3k. People do it in trucks all the time, even the XL F-150 lets you spec a Coyote 5.0. Jeep apparently thought so as well since at least 2011, when the 5.7L was optional in Laredo trims. I'm not sure about the 4.7L before that.

My guess is it's more to do with emissions and fleetwide fuel economy numbers then a thought nobody will buy them. I would be surprised if we see a Trackhawk with a hemi before we see one with a hybrid powertrain, but I've been surprised before.

something that's similar in guns and cars is that the internet is full of people saying what they "want" that are never actually going to buy even if what they "want" gets made. A Trackhawk is a great example of that. I want them to make one, I want for it to exist, but I'm not going to be buying a $80k Jeep. I'd like for a $40k V8 Grand Cherokee to exist too. Not going to be buying one of those either.

You may be right about emissions, but it also doesn't mean I'm not right about potential sales too.

[BehindBlueI's]

something that's similar in guns and cars is that the internet is full of people saying what they "want" that are never actually going to buy even if what they "want" gets made. A Trackhawk is a great example of that. I want them to make one, I want for it to exist, but I'm not going to be buying a $80k Jeep. I'd like for a $40k V8 Grand Cherokee to exist too. Not going to be buying one of those either.

You may be right about emissions, but it also doesn't mean I'm not right about potential sales too.

Jeep doesn't publicly publish sales data broken down by options, but the used car market should be relatively indicative:

Last Gen used GJ within 500 miles of my location for the three lowest trims that now do not have a V8 option:

1 in 20 bought the V8 in the Laredo- (lowest trim) Note that this may be skewed, as several years have zeros, years that have any are close to 1:10.
1 in 10 bought the V8 in the Altitude (second-from-the-bottom trim)
1 in 5 for the Limited (third-from-the-bottom)

1 in 4 for both the Overland and Trailhawk, which is now the minimum trim levels to get the V8

So unless the market has radically changed since the last gen, and maybe it has, either my region is not indicative of overall sales or there's more than just take-rates driving the change. Especially for the mid-range models.

[TGS]

Jeep doesn't publicly publish sales data broken down by options, but the used car market should be relatively indicative:

Last Gen used GJ within 500 miles of my location for the three lowest trims that now do not have a V8 option:

1 in 20 bought the V8 in the Laredo- (lowest trim) Note that this may be skewed, as several years have zeros, years that have any are close to 1:10.
1 in 10 bought the V8 in the Altitude (second-from-the-bottom trim)
1 in 5 for the Limited (third-from-the-bottom)

1 in 4 for both the Overland and Trailhawk, which is now the minimum trim levels to get the V8

So unless the market has radically changed since the last gen, and maybe it has, either my region is not indicative of overall sales or there's more than just take-rates driving the change. Especially for the mid-range models.

Not to mention, it's a huge leap to compare buying a V8 option in a low trim to buying a Trackhawk. People who buy Trackhawks are buying them for an entirely different reason than people buying V8 options in a lower end trim.

[rob_s]

Not to mention, it's a huge leap to compare buying a V8 option in a low trim to buying a Trackhawk. People who buy Trackhawks are buying them for an entirely different reason than people buying V8 options in a lower end trim.

if that's your takeaway from reading my post, I didn't do a good job writing it.