Are GP100 7 shot .357's reliable now?

[Bruce in WV]

I have an older production 2 1/2" 7 shot .357 GP100.
The cylinder bound up, wouldn't eject spent cases or close. I returned it on a factory shipping label and Ruger is replacing it with a new one off the current production line.

Here's the big question. Have there been engineering changes that make this model 100% reliable? I'd like to keep this as a woodland carry gun; its a desirable caliber, easy to carry, and is comfortable to shoot even with full power loads.

[JPedersen]

I will be watching this thread. I asked Ruger the same question about a year ago. I have not seen any verifiable data to say anything changed ... But I am not as "in the know" as the rest of the "Jedi masters" around here.

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[vaglocker]

Wasn't the issue with these the fact that certain brands of ammo wouldn't fit?

[Lester Polfus]

Wasn't the issue with these the fact that certain brands of ammo wouldn't fit?

Yes. Tolerance stacking meant that on some guns seven .357 rounds that had rims toward the larger side of SAMMI spec wouldn't chamber. There physically wasn't enough room in the cylinder.

My comment at the time was that there was probably an engineer in a corner at Ruger mumbling "I told you so."

I don't know if they've fixed that or not, or even if it is fixable without a essentially re-making the GP100.

The last I paid attention to it was in October of 2018 when I was revolver shopping. I'm sure if you call Ruger they'll assure you it is fine. The various Ruger-centric fora may offer more recent anecdotes.

[HoustonGP100]

I have a 2.5 inch also. It has been totally reliable and is my favorite. No binding. There are certain brands of brass it does not like but they are not brands I normally use. The Remington 38+P and 357 golden sabres I use work just fine and are accurate in this gun.

[vtfarmer]

When Ruger came out with their 7 shot, they kept the same size cylinder as the six shot GP with an extra chamber. The SAAMI specs for .357 case rim diameter is: max =.440", min =.430". It turned out that cases in the range of .435" to .440" wouldn't fit. The rims overlapped, which led to two problems. Sometimes the cylinder wouldn't close at all. Other times the cases could be pushed in flush with the thumb and the cylinder would close. But jamming the cases in created a wedge-lock in the chambers, which required pounding on the extractor rod with a hammer for removal.

Case brand is the big factor. In my early production 7 shot, Winchester cases won't work period. The rims run in the top half of the size range. Remington, on the other hand, runs in the bottom half of the range, I've never had a problem with Remington. Note- In the course of a year, Winchester and Remington probably make a million or more .357 cases. Are all Winchester cases over .435" ? Are all Remington cases under .435" ? No way for me to know.

When problems showed up with the early production guns, Ruger tried a couple minor tweaks that didn't work. In December 2018, customer service began telling callers that the problem had been fixed in current production guns. To my knowledge, Ruger has never said publicly what they changed. But from that time buyers of the late production guns, that reported on the Ruger double-action forum, said they had no problems. A couple owners gave some cylinder measurements on the new guns for comparison with the early model. Comparing those measurements to my early gun, it appears the cylinder diameter was increased from 1.545" to 1.550". The chambers were moved outwards 0.015", creating more rim space. The between chambers walls went from 0.055" to 0.070" on current production.
Since that time there haven't been any complaints from buyers of the new 7 shots on the Ruger Forum. It's been a dead issue for all of this year.

There's no definitive source of information that I know of, Ruger isn't talking, and the reports from buyers are a small sample size. As I said in another thread on PF awhile back, I've got the urge to buy a current production gun for side by side measurement and comparison with my early model. Last week I started checking Gallery of Guns daily to try and catch a shipment when it arrives and they have inventory. This could take a while.

[Dave T]

vtfarmer,

In trying to visualize you description of Ruger's fix (larger diameter cylinder) it would seem the cartridges would have to move outward, if only by a few thousands. Do your primers show an off center firing pin strike? Or, did Ruger also engineer a slightly raised firing pin location to compensate for the small elevation of the case above the center line of the cylinder?

I'm curious how they fixed this, or if they found the original firing pin location still reliably set off primers and let it go at that.

Dave

[vtfarmer]

vtfarmer,

In trying to visualize you description of Ruger's fix (larger diameter cylinder) it would seem the cartridges would have to move outward, if only by a few thousands. Do your primers show an off center firing pin strike? Or, did Ruger also engineer a slightly raised firing pin location to compensate for the small elevation of the case above the center line of the cylinder?

I'm curious how they fixed this, or if they found the original firing pin location still reliably set off primers and let it go at that.

Dave
Yes, the chambers were moved outward, a distance of 0.015". ( Fifteen Thousandths of an inch.) My current 7 shot is an early production model, before the fix, so the off center primer strike question doesn't apply. When I get a current production model, that will be something to look at. I doubt they moved the firing pin. If you happen to own a dial caliper, check the thicknesses of various sheets of paper to see how little 0.015" really is. I'd be surprised if they saw a need to move the firing pin.

[Toonces]

A couple owners gave some cylinder measurements on the new guns for comparison with the early model. Comparing those measurements to my early gun, it appears the cylinder diameter was increased from 1.545" to 1.550". The chambers were moved outwards 0.015", creating more rim space. The between chambers walls went from 0.055" to 0.070" on current production.

If you give me the cylinder OD, max chamber ID, and thickness between chambers of your current gun, I'll sketch it up in SolidWorks. I'll also use the dimensions you gave for the current production and see what changes.

Random thoughts:
I'm finding it hard to believe that they could move the chambers out 0.015" and not have to move the barrel, and I doubt Ruger would move the centerline of the barrel in the existing casting. Of course, making a new wax die for a different casting is easy for Ruger. 0.015" is half a mile in the precision machining world.
sing

[vtfarmer]

If you give me the cylinder OD, max chamber ID, and thickness between chambers of your current gun, I'll sketch it up in SolidWorks. I'll also use the dimensions you gave for the current production and see what changes.

Random thoughts:
I'm finding it hard to believe that they could move the chambers out 0.015" and not have to move the barrel, and I doubt Ruger would move the centerline of the barrel in the existing casting. Of course, making a new wax die for a different casting is easy for Ruger. 0.015" is half a mile in the precision machining world.
sing

The machinists/gunsmiths on the Ruger forum at the time agreed with you. They were adamant that moving the chambers required moving the forcing cone, which meant a redesign of the frame. Since Ruger isn't talking, examination of the two types involved is the only way to get any information. Hence my desire to get one of the current models. On the other hand, the buyers' of the revised model all reported trouble free functioning and accuracy as good as any of their other guns. And that's where it stands at the present time.

[john c]

Pure speculation, but couldn't Ruger move the rear of the charge holes out 0.015, but keep the front of the chambers in line with the current spec? I believe that some aftermarket percussion to centerfire conversion cylinders for cap'n'ball revolvers have used this trick to work in smaller framed guns. They would leave a "blank" or unmilled chamber to make up the difference in diameters from the cartridges versus the original cylinder. This had the added effect of allowing a safe place to rest the hammer.

[medmo]

Wouldn't recessed chambers solve it?

[Pol]

I have an older production 2 1/2" 7 shot .357 GP100.
The cylinder bound up, wouldn't eject spent cases or close. I returned it on a factory shipping label and Ruger is replacing it with a new one off the current production line.

Here's the big question. Have there been engineering changes that make this model 100% reliable? I'd like to keep this as a woodland carry gun; its a desirable caliber, easy to carry, and is comfortable to shoot even with full power loads.

I was unaware of this issue, and of the subsequent "fix". (which seems worse than the problem to be honest)

[Bruce in WV]

I received the replacement gun today. I haven't gotten to the range, but I did "try fit" a variety of cases.

My Starline cases have plenty of room between rims - visible space. A mix of commercial brass cases - I don't sort by head stamp except for the Starline - (Blazer brass, WW, Rem, Fed, Speer, and Magtech) were all much closer, but none bind against each other and the cylinder closes properly.

I won't get to the range until the middle of next week. I'll post an update again afterward with a "dirty gun" report.

Thank you Ruger Customer Service for making this a painless experience! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that your engineers hit a homerun with their secret fixes to this serious problem.

[Bruce in WV]

Following up with closer look at the new gun using a broad spectrum of brass picked at random from a batch bought off the internet, compared to my Starline, bought new and tracked. This looks very promising.

Photo 1 of misc brass reloads pulled at random from a baggie of ammo. I got these off the Ruger forum as an unknown # of reloads and have done no case prep other than run them through the vibrating cleaner. Using my Lyman Electronic Caliper they measure:
Blazer .440 PMC .436 X-treme .4315 3-D .432 Perfecta .433 A USA .4305 G.F.L. .434

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307595833_4b5b49bc22_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jDvzxX)1D8E3145-C639-4324-AF5E-CC1CA3B5EBC5 (https://flic.kr/p/2jDvzxX) by Bruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184873036@N08/), on Flickr

Photo 2 of Starline twice-fired, same simple case prep, measuring: .432 .4315 .4315 .432 .4315 .432 .432

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307596213_77abedb6d2_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jDvzEv)6F0014F5-043C-4216-8217-E533E19AD2D3 (https://flic.kr/p/2jDvzEv) by Bruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184873036@N08/), on Flickr

[jh9]

Can you verify cylinder diameter based on post #7?


cylinder diameter was increased from 1.545" to 1.550".

[Bruce in WV]

Can you verify cylinder diameter based on post #7?

The cylinder measures 1.550 halfway between the notches and the flutes.

[jh9]

Thanks.

Good to hear verification they changed the size.

[JPedersen]

Thanks.

Good to hear verification they changed the size.Yes! This is quite encouraging.

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[03RN]

7 shot .357s are hot. Especially with 3" barrels and fixed sights.

Kinda like that girl in my hs that wore painted on boot cut jeans, wife beaters, and chokers everyday.

[Bruce in WV]

I took the new 7 shot .357 GP100 to the steel range this morning with a wide variety of reloaded cases and had NO problems with cylinder rotation, lock-up and extraction.

I used only 105 rounds of moderate power target loads for the first part of the test because of how hard it is to replace what I shoot. The loads were all Acme no lube groove Hy-Tek coated 148gr button nose .358 wadcutters, firmly crimped in the crimping groove, with enough 2400 to give me an estimated 1000fps, using Winchester small pistol primers. There were 5 cylinders of my hoarded Starline cases and 10 cylinders of mixed cases. I shot about half at a steady pace single action, and the rest rapid double action. The gun got pretty hot to the touch!
I finished with only 5 cylinders of mixed cases using the Acme no lube groove Hy-Tek coated 158gr .358 SWC, with a heavy crimp in the crimping groove, and enough 2400 to give me an estimated 1350fps, using Winchester small pistol primers. I shot these at a steady pace double action. The gun got hotter!!

There were NO problems with any function of the pistol. I consider it a very reliable example of Ruger engineering. I'm going to be OK taking this gun anywhere a reasonable person would carry a medium caliber magnum pistol.

[Spartan1980]

Pure speculation, but couldn't Ruger move the rear of the charge holes out 0.015, but keep the front of the chambers in line with the current spec? I believe that some aftermarket percussion to centerfire conversion cylinders for cap'n'ball revolvers have used this trick to work in smaller framed guns. They would leave a "blank" or unmilled chamber to make up the difference in diameters from the cartridges versus the original cylinder. This had the added effect of allowing a safe place to rest the hammer.

No. Look at the pics Bruce in WV posted and note that all dimensions start at the center pin (centerline of the cylinder). If you move the cartridges out (or in) the barrel has to move with them and if you do that you may as well move the firing pin too to keep it centered. Plainly stated it requires a frame design change and there's no way around it. I'm just curious if Ruger now has two different frame part numbers.

Your example of a cap'n'ball cylinder isn't any different except the flash hole and nipple location could be moved slightly. It would only amount to a slightly different path for the flame from the percussion cap to follow.

[Spartan1980]

7 shot .357s are hot. Especially with 3" barrels and fixed sights.

Kinda like that girl in my hs that wore painted on boot cut jeans, wife beaters, and chokers everyday.

Does your wife still wear those? Mine doesn't and she'd look funny if she did. :(

[Jared]

I’m happy to hear they seem to have resolved the issue. If Ruger has these sorted, that adjustable sighted 3” gun and me may just have a love affair.

[Bruce in WV]

I’m happy to hear they seem to have resolved the issue. If Ruger has these sorted, that adjustable sighted 3” gun and me may just have a love affair.

That Talo 3" adj sight 7 shot is getting pretty hard to find: that's why I settled on the 2 1/2" model.
I hope Ruger brings one out as a regular catalog item.

[03RN]

Does your wife still wear those? Mine doesn't and she'd look funny if she did. :(

She's 36 so could still pull it off. I bought her one and have tried to get her to wear it but she has only worn it on new years 3-4 years ago.

Jeans and wifebeaters she still does but is 3months pregnant now so all about the comfy clothes

[Spartan1980]

She's 36 so could still pull it off. I bought her one and have tried to get her to wear it but she has only worn it on new years 3-4 years ago.

Jeans and wifebeaters she still does but is 3months pregnant now so all about the comfy clothes

Congrats on the pregnancy!

[Stephanie B]

She's 36 so could still pull it off. I bought her one and have tried to get her to wear it but she has only worn it on new years 3-4 years ago.

Jeans and wifebeaters she still does but is 3months pregnant now so all about the comfy clothes

Mazel tov!

[Bruce in WV]

Went to the range yesterday to supplement the first test with heavier loads/bullets. I shot 75 rounds of 170gr hard cast SWC/2400/~1200fps in slow, steady double action, pausing only to reload. The gun got hot but ran perfectly! I'm even more pleased than I was before.
I cleaned the gun and put it in the Simply Rugged Chesty Puller rig, ready to go to work in the woods and fields.

[Rex G]

She's 36 so could still pull it off. I bought her one and have tried to get her to wear it but she has only worn it on new years 3-4 years ago.

Jeans and wifebeaters she still does but is 3months pregnant now so all about the comfy clothes

Congratulations! :)

[03RN]

Thanks all:cool:

[Bruce in WV]

The gun "squirmed" a little more than I like with the heavy load, but a little Talon textured tape on the grip panel fixed it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50345725942_35064ed352_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jGT1iC)FB915ABB-0B48-4DDF-AAC4-8CE62B16FF8D (https://flic.kr/p/2jGT1iC) by Bruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184873036@N08/), on Flickr

[TheNewbie]

The gun "squirmed" a little more than I like with the heavy load, but a little Talon textured tape on the grip panel fixed it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50345725942_35064ed352_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jGT1iC)FB915ABB-0B48-4DDF-AAC4-8CE62B16FF8D (https://flic.kr/p/2jGT1iC) by Bruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184873036@N08/), on Flickr


Can you show a pic of the whole gun with that tape on it? That actually looks good.

[Bruce in WV]

Picture

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50346060811_1a592e951e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jGUHRe)1E121CE3-095D-487B-8997-7F2A9EBEA937 (https://flic.kr/p/2jGUHRe) by Bruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184873036@N08/), on Flickr

[Bruce in WV]

Changed picture apps and added last picture back to thread. This picture shows the Talon tape clearly on a set of CTC laser grips I need for old eyes and low light.
Unfortunately the cylinder pictures aren't replaceable.


https://i.ibb.co/xqx47bq/7-A2-FA195-2813-40-B2-91-BF-2960-FB00-C039.jpg

[Buckeye63]

That Talo 3" adj sight 7 shot is getting pretty hard to find: that's why I settled on the 2 1/2" model.
I hope Ruger brings one out as a regular catalog item.

[Buckeye63]

That Talo 3" adj sight 7 shot is getting pretty hard to find: that's why I settled on the 2 1/2" model.
I hope Ruger brings one out as a regular catalog item.

I had one in my sights before the Covid hit ... but I missed out ... It was at a semi-LGS ... I was a day late and dollar short...

A 7 shot 357 snubbie is on my short list when things turn back to normal..

[gato naranja]

Changed picture apps and added last picture back to thread. This picture shows the Talon tape clearly on a set of CTC laser grips I need for old eyes and low light.

https://i.ibb.co/xqx47bq/7-A2-FA195-2813-40-B2-91-BF-2960-FB00-C039.jpg

The Talon tape looks surprisingly "right," and has to be functionally superior to the slick factory panels.

Which reminds me...

I need to get off my lazy tail and find someone to make me a set of checkered American holly inserts for the GP100 compact grip.

[JPedersen]

I have one and it has been as good as my 3” 6 shot one. It took 2 trips to Ruger. The first for rim lock - replaced with a brand new gun. The second had a rough action that they smoothed out. It is a great revolver.


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[SwampDweller]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread, but I thought it'd be better to post to this one rather than making a new thread with the same question. Since it's 2022 and the supposedly-revised models have been out for a bit now, do we know for sure whether the 7 shot GP100s are good to go?

Anyone have reports?

[JPedersen]

Yes. They are good to go.


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[SwampDweller]

Yes. They are good to go.


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Thanks. Wonder about the 8 shot Redhawks, I remember those having issues.

[JPedersen]

Thanks. Wonder about the 8 shot Redhawks, I remember those having issues.

I do t have any experience with the 8th or RedHawks , but I do have experience with the Redhawk in regards to the round butt and grips. It is a no go for me… not at all a fan of round butt RedHawks.


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[SWAT Lt.]

Apologies for reviving a dead thread, but I thought it'd be better to post to this one rather than making a new thread with the same question. Since it's 2022 and the supposedly-revised models have been out for a bit now, do we know for sure whether the 7 shot GP100s are good to go?

Anyone have reports?

I purchased a 3 inch Wiley Clapp II (7 shot) a couple months ago. It works fine and shoots great. It has become one of my favorite revolvers.

[SwampDweller]

I purchased a 3 inch Wiley Clapp II (7 shot) a couple months ago. It works fine and shoots great. It has become one of my favorite revolvers.

Good to hear. Sounds like Ruger has figured out the secret to a reliable 7 shot GP100 in .357. I recently got a 6 shot blued GP100 4", and I like it so much I want to get another and was considering a 7 shot. Considering when I carried a 1911 I used to have 7 rounds, it appeals to me to have a revolver in a potent caliber that can do the same with less fussiness.

[SwampDweller]

Yesterday I received a new 7-shot 4" stainless GP100 in .357 Mag. So far nothing seems out of place, though I noticed the trigger doesn't seem as nice as my older blued 6-shot model. It could partly be because the blued one has far more repetitions on the trigger, but the 7-shot seems a lot heavier with more of a wall where it turns the cylinder a shorter distance. Unfortunately I won't be able to shoot it until Tuesday at the earliest.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Tarrrnation!]

Hey Swampdweller,

Having had a few SP101s and I have 3 GP100s - two are the newer 7 round variety (with no issues FYI), they all required (for me) some trigger time shooting and lots of dry fire to smooth out the triggers. One of my 7 rounders I bought used online had been worked over a bit by the prior owner and has the nicest trigger. If you google or YouTube you’ll see a ton of information on on people recommending some simple polishing and spring swaps and shims to improve the triggers. Except for the used one I bought, I tend to just leave ‘em and shoot them as Mother Nature intended.
My take on Ruger SP101 and GP100 triggers: They are like the old BMW airhead engines that, when new needed some miles on them to mate the parts and smooth things out. Once you get some trigger time and “miles on your GP100’s odometer”, I bet the trigger will be nice. If you don’t have time for all that, you can speed up the process with the stoning, sanding a few parts and swapping springs or having a Gunsmith do it as well—no shame in that. Make sure to monitor for light primer strikes when/if you do some spring swapping

Tar

[SwampDweller]

Hey Swampdweller,

Having had a few SP101s and I have 3 GP100s - two are the newer 7 round variety (with no issues FYI), they all required (for me) some trigger time shooting and lots of dry fire to smooth out the triggers. One of my 7 rounders I bought used online had been worked over a bit by the prior owner and has the nicest trigger. If you google or YouTube you’ll see a ton of information on on people recommending some simple polishing and spring swaps and shims to improve the triggers. Except for the used one I bought, I tend to just leave ‘em and shoot them as Mother Nature intended.
My take on Ruger SP101 and GP100 triggers: They are like the old BMW airhead engines that, when new needed some miles on them to mate the parts and smooth things out. Once you get some trigger time and “miles on your GP100’s odometer”, I bet the trigger will be nice. If you don’t have time for all that, you can speed up the process with the stoning, sanding a few parts and swapping springs or having a Gunsmith do it as well—no shame in that. Make sure to monitor for light primer strikes when/if you do some spring swapping

Tar

It actually seems a little better today after a lot of dry firing, or maybe I'm just getting used to it. It's certainly a different-feeling trigger than my 6-shot model. I'm thinking about sending this one into Gemini to have them work their magic on it, should it prove reliable in my vetting process first.

[Tarrrnation!]

You can do no wrong with Gemini Custom. Man they do beautiful work.

[oregon45]

It actually seems a little better today after a lot of dry firing, or maybe I'm just getting used to it. It's certainly a different-feeling trigger than my 6-shot model. I'm thinking about sending this one into Gemini to have them work their magic on it, should it prove reliable in my vetting process first.

The 7-shot GP100 trigger feels different because it is different. The geometry and timing are different, and that affects how the trigger feels. I have a 7-shot GP100, as well as S&W 7-shot 686's, and they all feel different from their 6-shot counterparts--so different, that I find I have to dry fire a bit with the 7-shots to get acclimated to them before trying to work those triggers at speed. If the gun works I would leave it alone, and just get used to the different feel. An action job will just give you a better feeling 7-shot trigger, it won't make it feel just like an equally well tuned 6-shot trigger.

[SwampDweller]

The 7-shot GP100 trigger feels different because it is different. The geometry and timing are different, and that affects how the trigger feels. I have a 7-shot GP100, as well as S&W 7-shot 686's, and they all feel different from their 6-shot counterparts--so different, that I find I have to dry fire a bit with the 7-shots to get acclimated to them before trying to work those triggers at speed. If the gun works I would leave it alone, and just get used to the different feel. An action job will just give you a better feeling 7-shot trigger, it won't make it feel just like an equally well tuned 6-shot trigger.

Thanks for this. I put the 6-shot GP100 away for a couple of days to dedicate dry fire time to the 7 shot, and I already feel more at home with it. My follow through with the trigger pull is already starting to get smoother.

I've noticed a tiny, tiny bit of wear on the edges of the cylinder stop notches in the cylinder. Is that acceptable in any way?