USPc vs P2000 compact?

[awp_101]

Both of these have come up in several threads recently. Not being terribly well versed in the ways of HK, are there any significant differences between them? My understanding is the P2000 was supposed to be an improvement over the USP (or a product improved USP?)

I'm not exactly looking to get into one but if I ran across one or the other at a good price, I'd kind of like to know what I should be looking at and what I should know about each to help make an informed decision.

[OlongJohnson]

Look for old posts by HCM regarding the USPc to P2000 transition at his agency.

I have large hands and find that the control lever on the USPc hammers my thumb knuckle, raising a blister if I shoot long enough. Not an issue with LEM, obviously. I have modified a control lever by chamfering the troublesome corner to avoid or reduce the contact, but haven't been shooting enough with covid to really evaluate it.

P2000 moves the decocker to the back of the slide, but I like keeping the compact the same as the full size guns. I notice the P2000 is the only HK I'm aware of with swappable backstraps where the large actually wraps up into the curve of the frame and increases the LOP at the top of the grip.

If I was more interested in the question, I'd go through parts lists for the fire control groups and see what parts are shared and what are different. They use the same mags.

I like USPc better. If you were in Houston, you'd be welcome to shoot mine.

As for what to look for, I'd stay away from police trades that have a lot of marks on the right side of the frame. Probably fine, but no reason to put up with that, as you won't save much money by settling. Some police trades look just as nice and clean as civvie guns. Hard to imagine any USP in 9mm getting actually worn out. One might need a new recoil spring; I've put them in two USPs I bought used ('90s guns), and the difference made clear that it was a needed service.

I've had half a notion to buy a backup USPc, and prices are all over the map right now. Some sell for silly money and I can't figure out why. Others sell for about what I'd have expected them to go for six months ago.

[awp_101]

Thanks, I'll start looking for those posts.



If I was more interested in the question, I'd go through parts lists for the fire control groups and see what parts are shared and what are different.
No need for that, I'm not that interested and it's my question. This is more because I'm seeing things show up in shops that don't normally show up around here and I need some 101 level education. My HK experience is limited to a fling with a full size USP45 10+ years ago and another with a P30 within the past couple of years.



I've had half a notion to buy a backup USPc, and prices are all over the map right now. Some sell for silly money and I can't figure out why. Others sell for about what I'd have expected them to go for six months ago.
Sounds like everything else right now.

[entropy]

No experience with the P2000, but plenty with the USPc. It is the single most reliable pistol I own, or have ever owned. Period. The earlier USPc had an issue with firing pin design/breakage. Mine took a crap at about 25K. Armorer replaced with updated version. It went another 25K+. Not sure on the serial number range on that anymore, but circa 2004-ish.

[Coyote41]

I would try both and see which you prefer, as the practical differences are few:

Grip shape/changeability.

Decocker position.

Thumb safety option.

Ambi slide release.

The P2000 is supposed to be an improvement in all these areas (unless a thumb safety is desired). However, some people dislike the ambi slide release and decocker options due to individual ergonomics. The only way to find out is shoot both if you can.

I like the USPc for looks, but being a lefty, the P2000 wins. Function wise they’re nearly identical, and many parts are interchangeable. Used to you could find a P2000 much cheaper than a USPc, which may also be a factor.

[Suvorov]

I've got both. The USP is a carry/edc gun and I've shot it quite a bit. The P2000 is kind of a back up to the back up 9mm I got because I had the opportunity to buy it cheap. Both are LEMs. The reset on the USPc is noticeably shorter than on the P2000. The USPc's grips fit my hands well but they are what they are while the P2000 gives you back strap options. Some people find the aggressive checkering on the USPc a little too much, the P2000 has more of a "sandpaper" texture. The P2000 has ambidextrous controls while the USPc is configurable for ambidextrous controls (although I believe the slide release is only on the left). I also have a USPc in .45 but it isn't a apples or apples comparison as it's a little bigger of a frame. The USPc has the blocky Teutonic styling of the USP that some may love or hate, the P2000 has a more streamlined styling.

All in all I consider both of them both excellent compact pistols. I like the LEM trigger on a defensive gun but it might not be for everyone. I would basically say get the one you like better or if all things are equal, buy the one you can get cheapest and paperless (if able).

[Mark D]

This thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44344-HK-P2000-to-G19-Transition-Observations

has some speculation that the P2000 may be discontinued now that DHS is transitioning to Glock. I hope that's not the case, because I'm a huge P2000 fan. I would like a USPc also, but I've pretty much dedicated myself to P2000 and P2000sk LEM.

[Coyote41]

This thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?44344-HK-P2000-to-G19-Transition-Observations

has some speculation that the P2000 maybe discontinued now that DHS is transitioning to Glock. I hope that's not the case, because I'm a huge P2000 fan. I would like a USPc also, but I've pretty much dedicated myself to P2000 and P2000sk LEM.

It’s entirely speculation.

HK imports come in waves. With the VP9 being it’s best seller (citation needed), that’s going to be their focus for exports to the U.S. Less popular items usually come in more limited quantities, and come in less frequently.

There is a local store that has a used P2000sk in .40 S&W for $500 that has been there since 2013. I keep thinking about buying it.


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[Mark D]

It’s entirely speculation.

HK imports come in waves. With the VP9 being it’s best seller (citation needed), that’s going to be their focus for exports to the U.S. Less popular items usually come in more limited quantities, and come in less frequently.

There is a local store that has a used P2000sk in .40 S&W for $500 that has been there since 2013. I keep thinking about buying it.


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Heck, if it's been there that long, I'd be tempted to throw out a low ball offer.

[Canyonrat]

The USP has a convertible lever with a lot of options. Myself I prefer decock-only, no safety. The nice thing is in semi-auto handguns I have Beretta, and HK USP. So the lever setup I can rig to be very consistent across the brands. I also happen to love the feel of the USP grips and the way they fire. So I would buy another USP variant before any other HK based on the 3 that I have.

I was always kind of intrigued by the P2000 also. But I would not consider it an improvement to a USP. More like an alternative that was produced to meet the spec of a certain law enforcement agency. But the standard rail might be handy if you are a pistol-mounted-light person, the USP is kind of out on a limb there by itself.

[Suvorov]

But the standard rail might be handy if you are a pistol-mounted-light person, the USP is kind of out on a limb there by itself.

I forgot to mention this, thanks! - I consider the standard rail on the P2000 a big advantage. YMMV

[jh9]

There is no factory approved way to convert a V3 (DA/SA) P2000 to LEM. There are instructions on the hkpro site on how to essentially replicate V0 LEM (with decocker) but HK thinks that it sucks and will hate you if you do it. Meanwhile USPc can, I think, do any variant without limitation.

That's a bit more important than you might think, since V3 P2000s were a lot easier to come by than V2s when I was buying. (I had to scour gunbroker for about a month and a half before I found another new one.) If you want LEM or TDA, make sure that's what you buy in the first place unless you don't mind swapping everything back out in the event it needs to go back to the factory.

https://us.hkwebshop.com/hkstorefront/hk/en/Handgun-Parts/c/400?q=%3Arelevance%3Amodel%3AP2000&page=0
https://hkparts.net/shop/pc/hk-pistol-parts-c15/HK-P2000-P2000SK-c549/hk-p2000-c203/hk-p2000-frame-parts-c252

I believe the slide parts are all identical to the USPc except the front sight. I think the rear sight is now shared with the VP9OR.

The frame parts look like they are all shared parts with the P30 and/or USP and/or HK45/c. The exceptions appear to be the trigger 'shoe', backstraps, and the optional magazine disconnect. If there are any other internals that are unique to the P2000 I don't see them :confused:

Excepting the actual frame/barrel/slide, of course. Those are unique to the model.

Putting some effort into it, I think even if it is discontinued service probably won't be an issue for a long while.

[fatdog]

I have owned both in the DA/SA versions and LEM. I settled on USP/c in LEM and sold the rest.

For me it was purely a matter of what I shot the best, in the department of timers and targets don't lie. So it is a very personal preference.

I think I just do better work with the squared up textured grip of the USP/c and my hand size favors it. I did not warm up to the grip shape and surface of the P2000.

From an accuracy and reliability point of view they are absolutely equal in my experience and probably as good as it gets.

As cited, the USP/c trigger and action can be reconfigured at an armorer level and the P2000 is not really designed to be changed that way.

I never bought a new one, and back in normal times never paid over $600 for one, mostly scouring gunbroker as they rarely appear for sale around here.

[awp_101]

Thanks everyone, that helps.

Ambi and light rail are non-factors for me since this wouldn't be my primary or secondary (or heck, even tertiary) serious use pistol. LEM is an unknown so it looks like a USP is what I should be keeping an eye out for unless a P2000 shows up stupid cheap with a trigger I can live with.

[CCT125US]

Late to the party.... looks like you've chosen a direction, which saves me some typing.

I have multiple copies of both, with 10k plus, and several years of carry. Feel free to ask any specifics.

[JTQ]

Another forum poster with a lot of insight into the USPc and P2000 discussion is the late forum member LSP972

[ObiWan]

I own a USPc .40 LEM (agency employee purchase) and was issued a P2000 for 8 years. When I asked our agency armorer to upgrade my USPc prior to my retirement I was told that there weren't any USPc parts in inventory and that the P2000 is a slightly cheapened version of the brand. Apparently most the parts are not interchangeable and have different SKUs. Even the sights are different so he couldn't replace my aging night sights. All that said, I like both and would have bought my P2000 upon retirement if I could have. Now all I need is a 9mm conversion barrel and some 9mm mags......